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Ponzi’s End

     Way up here in the heartland, far from the craft beer parlors, Facebook stock bucket shops, and gender obsessions of the mythical Urban Edge People, the detritus of your country is up for sale. The lawns are strewn with the plastic effluvia of lives lived through humankind’s weirdest moment: Pee Wee Herman action figures, creeping tot tables, failed kitchen appliances that created more labor than they were designed to save, extruded plastic this-and-that, unidentifiable knick-knacks of forgotten sitcoms, Jimmy Carter Halloween masks, trikes brittle and faded from ultraviolet exposure, artworks conceived in a Zoloft fog, pre-owned cat litter boxes, someone’s deceased mother’s lawn fanny, the complete works of Jacqueline Susann, a savings bank in the shape of an outhouse….
     The puzzling part is that every lawn sale contains exactly the same array of useless and pathetic objects. Is this how a Ponzi culture meets its end: the terminal swap-meet beyond which no horrifying object meets any mystifying desire for acquisition? If this is where consumer culture crawled off to die, then what possible zeitgeist awaits a people left so hopelessly de-cultured on aspiration’s lowest ladder-rung?
     I dropped by a religious cult commune in the next town over on Saturday. Some of the guys who dwell there have been helping me out on hire with the physical labor of  the rather ambitious garden construction here at Clusterfuck Farm, so I was informed about their weekend festival. The group occupies a former “gentleman’s estate” built in the 1920s when the economic growth machine operated at full Ponzi steam. The buildings are quite beautiful; the main house is a Greco-Roman beaux arts mansion; a massive horse barn has large and graceful arched windows; and there are other houses and barns on the large property, which occupies a sweetly enfolding dell of land in this county of hills and valleys.
     The weather couldn’t have been more beautiful and the property was maximally groomed for the festival. There were several tents up, nice ones, decorated with colorful medieval-looking swags. One was a big circular tent set up for the folk-dances that are part of their subculture. You got a very clear picture of the demographic shape of the outfit: at the core of it were vital and healthy-looking young adults, median age around 30, I figured, who were running things, doing most of the work, organizing the daily routines. Then there were the old Boomers turned white-haired grandparents (many times), seekers from the 1970s who had signed on with the outfit long ago, reproduced mightily, and now played a background role in the scheme of things. 
     There was a costuming motif that was not too intense but allowed for visual self-identification among the members: long skirts for women; beards and pony-tails on the men, who all otherwise dressed in ordinary catalog casuals of the day. It set them apart without making them look too kooky. It also reinforced gender differences (the horror!) in a micro-society not dedicated to erasing and transgressing them. I didn’t know much about the group’s internal workings, but it seemed to me that the men were in charge, and I got the impression that far from representing some clichéd notion of “patriarchal oppression,” it produced a reassuring tone of confidence in clear lines of responsibility – a quality now completely absent in outer America’s culture of incessant lying, systematic fraud, and consensual evasion of reality.
     I was especially interested to observe the behavior of the children, of which there were very many. For one thing, they appeared fully integrated into their society, not ring-fenced into some special ghetto of juvenile disempowerment palliated with manufactured video power fantasies and endless snacks. They were unperturbed and self-possessed. None were screaming, quarreling or carrying on. They were not hopped up on Big Gulps and Twinkies. They did not require constant monitoring. They danced along with the adults, or circulated confidently on their own, and with their friends, in the crowd.
     I was a keen student of religious cults in the 1970s when I was a young newspaper reporter. The blowback from the Age of Aquarius had propelled a lot of lost souls into quests for meaning and especially communion beyond the sordid precincts of the idiotic common culture of the day. They were also seeking structure in chaotic young lives unable to get traction in a bad economy. I was interested in what the cult scene had to say about America generally and, I confess, attracted to the melodrama of fringe lunacy I found there, including a lot of colorful unbalanced personalities among the various founders and poobahs. I poked around a number of religious cults, including some accused of maliciously coercive practices, and I eventually even wrote a novel based on my experience (“Blood Solstice,” Doubleday, 1988). 
     All this is to say that I retain a broad skepticism about organized religion in general and about American Utopian endeavor in particular. But the country and its baleful culture are now in an even more advanced state of entropic degeneration than was the case in the last days of Vietnam and Watergate. Those two awful conditions were at least settled and the nation moved on. The troubles that now afflict us guarantee a much broader systemic collapse that will surely require great changes in everything that we do and everything that we are. The demoralization of the larger American public is so stark and pronounced that you can smell it in the rising heat. 
      What I saw on Saturday on this farm was a wholly different group demeanor: purposeful, earnest, confident, energetic, and cheerful. It mattered too, I think, that this small community’s economy was centered on agriculture and value-added production of common household products (they make soaps and cosmetics for the natural foods market).  This was a snapshot of the much smaller-scale and local economy of America’s future, techno-narcissistic fantasies aside. I don’t know whether these people represent a lifeboat, or if these qualities of character can be enacted in a wider consensual culture, and one not necessarily based on religious doctrine, which I am not so avid about.

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

698 Responses to “Ponzi’s End” Subscribe

  1. treuburger May 28, 2012 at 10:18 am #

    First !

  2. Smokyjoe May 28, 2012 at 10:26 am #

    nth!
    I loved this bit:
    “The demoralization of the larger American public is so stark and pronounced that you can smell it in the rising heat.”
    Yes, but Jim needs to spend more time at yard sales. So often they feature neat old furnishings in a distressed state. They are well made an discarded by suburban doofuses who instead buy cheap crap to fit their new decor.
    I fix up the old things and off they go to our distressed farmhouse. Meanwhile, the urban elite buy furnishings from JHK’s side ad to a company selling distressed furniture…what a nation.
    Remember Memorial Day! While it still means something, I’m hanging out our flag.

  3. Neon Vincent May 28, 2012 at 10:27 am #

    It looks like your reading of Strauss and Howe has stuck with you, as I can see that their paradigm has guided you in which questions you asked and observations you made to answer them. That’s a good thing. Also, I like that you’ve got a name for your agrarian project, Clusterfuck Farms, and a group of like-minded people to help you with it. Even better.
    I haven’t been writing about the comparable urban farming movement in Detroit much lately, although it definitely deserves more attention. Instead, I’ve been summarizing news about the interplay between austerity and sustainability that I think characterizes our times, noting the record warm temperatures (for Spring, 2012 so far, and the past 12 months), the latest news in space and astronomy, and the efforts of my students. For those of you interested in what I had to say about Elaine Meinel Supkis, stay tuned. I plan on responding to your questions on my blog.
    Until then, Happy Motoring–for now–from Detroit!
    crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  4. steve May 28, 2012 at 10:30 am #

    I understand your caution of religiously based subcultures, but I encourage you to not be universally condemning in your outlook. The concept of God is powerful and cannot be eradicated by any social or political system. And it has provided amazing aesthetic and philosophical foundations for sustainable civilizations. The religious impulse can and has been adaptive and productive for many very hopeful and joyful communities of human endeavor. I write this from the bible belt of the American South and invite you to disabuse yourself of rigid and unworthy stereotypes; come down and I would love to show you many examples of religious work that is not judgemental and condemnatory, but loving and charitable.

  5. daytrip May 28, 2012 at 10:35 am #

    Some of the best kitchen utensils are ones made in the Good ‘Ol USA, found at yard sales on occasion. I have a french fry maker that is pre-planned obsolescence era (1960’s?) that will crush a handful of french fries out of a raw potato for a hundred more years, long into JHK’s LE. I bought a chinese garlic press that bent on my first little clove. Some bargain.

  6. kulturcritic* May 28, 2012 at 10:35 am #

    Better late than never, James
    kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/scary-no/
    kulturCritic

  7. Zev Paiss May 28, 2012 at 10:35 am #

    Jim – So nice to read you reporting on a positive example you are seeing in the world. There are lots of positive activities happening out there. We just need to track them down and aka whole lots of noise about it.
    My new novel “From Here to There: A Story of America’s Future” is now available at: bookstore.authorhouse.com/Products/SKU-000502894/From-Here-to-There.aspx
    Have a great Memorial Day everyone.

  8. mow May 28, 2012 at 10:35 am #

    something is a mish

  9. God May 28, 2012 at 10:38 am #

    Nice!

  10. William Hunter Duncan May 28, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    I stopped by a garage sale recently, and found an old couple about to move into a condo, selling all their garden and building tools, many of which were pre-alloy steel. 99% of consumer goods made after 1950 are consumer trash, but every once in a while I stumble upon the real. Exceedingly rare, but what a joy when I do.
    http://www.offthegridmpls.blogspot.com

  11. Hammering Truth May 28, 2012 at 10:47 am #

    Welcome to the throw away society. Buy it now and toss it tomorrow,including our veterans: youtu.be/wJuH1c7iyFQ

  12. bailey May 28, 2012 at 10:54 am #

    JK’s way of explaining away today was kinda nice. Almost sweet to see him look under some piece of our culture and find a little hope. It does happen in smaller communities, happy to hear he felt a sense of purpose. Kinda nice…

  13. 3rd Generation May 28, 2012 at 10:57 am #

    “not ring-fenced into some special ghetto of juvenile disempowerment palliated with manufactured video power fantasies and endless snacks.”
    Poetry.
    How’s this? Can I qualify ?
    As I waited in the ‘short line’ to pay for my $ 5 dollar friday whole roasted chicken, while the ugliest child ever born? hatched? in Christiandom fattened up like a pig ready for slaughter vaguely resembloing that famous mythical charachter the ‘Michelin Man’ stared hungrily at me like a cheese doodle with an extra gallon of sugared soda, her equally swinish morbidly obese piggish mother-warden slid her foodstamp-welfare card through the slot to pay for their (and ours-taxpayers, remember them?) round of ‘vittles’. I will not inventory the contents of her extra king-size large wagon as it is too depressing, even for me. The small piggish child then belched mightily, and from the glazed look in its eyes and the faint smile, took a shit in its pants, I suspect from the smell, shortly before projectile vomiting some green (as opposed to pink-that’s for later in life) slimy matter all over me and everything withing a three foot radius…. Little Piggy congratulated itself by bursting into a child-wail including tears and a out-of-control ranting fit that would frighten a Wildebeast away from its rut.
    Just another day in Silicon Valley, America.
    Go for chicken, return with vomit and exposure to the plague and Black Death. . . .
    Have a Nice Monday in the Nation of Nothing.

  14. Steve D May 28, 2012 at 10:59 am #

    “Seems” like they have it together. “Seems” being the key word. Otherwise they and the kids could just be dancing the Fukushima blues stomp.

  15. ahi May 28, 2012 at 11:00 am #

    I find James’ latent gender panic to be quite amusing. Any day now, the byline will change to Jasmine Hannah Kunstler and she will be fabulous.

  16. dale May 28, 2012 at 11:10 am #

    Sounds like you have the makings of a convert Jimmy Boy!
    Seriously, you make pretty good sense when you aren’t trying to make predictions like a self anointed messiah. Boomers like ourselves are often surprised by the size of the counter culture, during the rare moments we are exposed to it. They’re out there, and they do seem a lot more balanced than the average citizen, religious or otherwise. After the die off, maybe they will be around to keep things together long enough for us, as a whole, to reach the next level of evolution. But fortunately, you and I won’t be around to see it.

  17. welles May 28, 2012 at 11:12 am #

    Nation of Nothing
    precisely. go to another country where people are still quite normal, not so OBESE, ignorant, and have not degenerated into mere human placeholders until they expire into mounds of decomposition.
    science fiction has become science fact in the wretched US and A.
    here in Brazil we spent the weekend roasting 60 pounds of organic beef (spare me any diatribe on deforestation) over eucalyptus charcoal and anjica wood for a neighbor’s 84th birthday. Man still rides his bicycle and drinks a beer each day for his health.
    60 guests showed up for the birthday bash as the late afternoon and evening arrived, all different races and shades, but hell who cares, we leave the race-bating and gender ‘conflicts’ (usually by females who are undesirable) to the Yanquis.
    Lots of beer and beef (and even a salted chicken grilled over the huge bar-b-q pit) and wonderful funny conversation made it a memorable night, with bouncing Paraguayan accordion/cowboy music played loudly.
    no prozac is required, since people provide solace and encouragement to each other in the face of whatever troubles they have. five-year old kids in the stinkin’ USA take bloody anti-depress meds – what a crime the country has become.
    we got plenty of land, plenty of great weather, come down and grow your own, get to reknow what community is and rediscover what you lost in the last few (de)generations in the US and A.
    wish it weren’t so.
    peace peaceniks

  18. GAZ May 28, 2012 at 11:18 am #

    Tonight I will honor the memory of my father (B-52 pilot,Vietnam) stepfather (Army engineer in the Phillipines WWII) and my father in-law (retired Marine, Korea and Vietnam, two purple hearts and a Bronze Medal during Tet) I miss them all very much. They all died much too young and took with them wisdom I wish they could share with me during these “interesting” times. Hopefully they are in a better place and someday we can all be together again, get drunk, play cards and talk shit.
    The salad I will prepare tonight will be made possible by a “salad shooter” bought at a garage sale of illegal immigrants going back to Jalisco Mexico for a better life.

  19. Laura Louzader May 28, 2012 at 11:18 am #

    You don’t have to be a feminist to be a little dismayed at the delight in which Kunstler and certain other social critics take in any sign they see of a return to “patriarchal values” and traditional gender roles. The writings of Kunstler and these others are full of yearning for some past Golden Age they could not possibly remember, but get their ideas about from Currier & Ives prints and old Victorian fashion plates.
    This little agrarian community may be a lifeboat, but its denizens sound to me like people who are hiding from a messy, complex reality by taking refuge in a past they perceive as somehow simpler and “purer”, rather than deal with a large and frightening world head-on. A tiny society living in a mythological past in which gender and occupational roles were narrowly defined and very simple might seem like a refuge to people baffled and dismayed by the flexibility and ability to deal with extreme novelty that a person needs to navigate our current crumbling economy in the major shift it’s going through, but it could also turn into a trap.
    As for gender roles, they began to break down a long time before the ascendency of cheap oil, in certain pockets of our society, mostly in places where life was very unsettled and required unconventional responses. The old American west comes immediately to mind. It’s no accident that the Western states were the first to recognize female political rights, since settling them took the total of what both partners in a marriage had to give in the way of physical work and endurance, and women were forced to live alone with the kids in leaky sod houses through both winters and summers,and their days were full of heavy “men’s” work of clearing fields, chopping firewood, running cattle, and coping with the lack of the most basic civilized amenities while their men were back east making the money to buy farm implements while living in boarding houses, sitting down to hot meals served in a civilized setting, sleeping with whores, and otherwise enjoying the perks and comforts of town life.
    The past is distilled through many filters added by time, until we are left with a very sanitized version of it. We look at an old fashion plate of elegant women garbed in lovely, intricate clothing made and priced for society women, and think that’s how people really dressed, and don’t see the head lice, the brown and gray homespun dresses hardly ever washed and worn with no thought of vanity or grace on stout, unhealthy bodies coarsened and worn out by sheer physical labor and made unhealthier by some of the worst food you ever heard of-food with lead added to give it color and everything made with white flour and fried. We forget that a couple who birthed five children were lucky if two of them made it past the age of five. Every once in a while you get a glimpse at the unsanitary reality of lives long gone, like in a pile of trashy “dime” novels of the Victorian era, bound in gold-tooled leather, that I once discovered in a St. Louis antique store as a young teen, when it amazed me to discover than popular culture c 1880 was just as trashy and vulgar in its way as what was on view c 1966 on television.
    Remember, the history of the past 4000 years has been that of growth, of societies that ballooned into vast civilizations based on aggressive expansion and the consumption of ever more resources, with periodic collapses when the society expands to the limits of its resources, a point we’re at now. The difference is that, in the past, there remained many places in the world in which to expand and many reservoirs of untapped resources, so that every new civilization reached greater growth and greater advancement than the one that preceded it.
    Now, we’ve reached planetary limits, and unless we find a way to exploit the resources of our solar system, which seems pretty doubtful, our history going forward will be one of contraction and somehow contriving to construct a “stable state” economy. We will have none of the resources such as arable land, ample forests for firewood, or untapped riches of gold and other minerals, that made life in past societies possible, and the conventional responses and solutions, and societal conventions of the past will not suffice us in a world of rapidly shrinking resources and far too many people on every continent on the globe. Life will be about doing what you can with what you have where you are, and will take more imagination, creativity, and flexibility than the folks in the little neo-medieval commune Kunstler describes, can imagine.

  20. azgog May 28, 2012 at 11:24 am #

    Went out to a carrot ranch last week (they grow 10-15 thousand pounds on about half an acre), the owner smart and ambitious (designed and built a custom harvestor and carrot washer) but also intensely Christian. I was questioned about my faith and answered forthrightly agnostic. Still he insisted upon reciting a blessing on me, my wife and daughter. Really had no problem with that – I’ll take all the free blessings that are going – but they always throw in the fear factor at some point and so did he. Just a little twist of the knife to drive it all home.
    Still, many of these people are best situated to survive the new reality and they don’t waste their time on dancing with the stars and nicnacks.

  21. highrpm May 28, 2012 at 11:28 am #

    delusion,dementia,good-old-days ??? a dose of ernest becker (denial of death) may help. or michael crichton, “The late Michael Crichton put it neatly in a speech to the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco in 2003 when he talked of the ”remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths’. He said:
    There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe. Eden, the fall of man, the loss of grace, the coming doomsday—these are deeply held mythic structures. They are profoundly conservative beliefs.
    (Full text: sharpgary.org/ChrichtonCommonweal.html )”

  22. Steve D May 28, 2012 at 11:30 am #

    My first conscious thought shortly after birth was – oh shit – Just a little clue if anyone is interested in thinking about something other than the obvious. If not continue seeking food, drink, sex, shelter, and amusement.

  23. Deacon Solomon May 28, 2012 at 11:35 am #

    I gotta take issue — In the first place, Watergate and Vietnam were never settled. Ford pardoned Nixon. There was no trial. Justice was NOT done. The upshot is that there are plenty of people alive today who are ready to swear that Nixon was innocent and the whole thing was a political witch hunt perpetrated by Democrats who wanted Nixon OUT.
    Likewise Vietnam: Millions of Americans stand ready to swear that America lost the Vietnam war because of the cowardice of liberals and the traitorous national press corps.
    Abortion is another such issue. So is the Kennedy assassination, but I left those out because I don’t want to write any books in your Web space.
    My point is that those issues were never settled and because they were never settled, they fuel the horde of misperceptions that feed the blue-collar “conservative” voters that were formerly known as “Reagan Democrats.” Today they are called the religious right, the Tea Party, or a lot of ignorant sonsabitches, depending on who you talk to. People believe Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh because so many “know” they were lied to about Vietnam and Watergate.
    In defense of those people it’s only fair to say they are right about a couple of things: It was Democratic cowardice that allowed those issues to be shoved under our national rug. And it was Democratic cowardice that made Democrats complicit in the demolition of our social safety net, the off-shoring of our economy and the gridlock in Washington that prevents any progress on vital issues such as pollution and environmental cleanup.

  24. anti soak May 28, 2012 at 11:43 am #

    ‘Everyone’ was caught up in the Facebook IPO brouhaha. But Mr Wall Street, Obama did not comment.
    If you read this list, check how much $ his dog costs the US.
    WHOEVER SAID THAT OBAMA HASN’T ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING IN HIS FIRST TERM?
    WHAT AN IMPRESSIVE LIST OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS!…
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO APPLY FOR COLLEGE AID AS A FOREIGN STUDENT, THEN DENY HE WAS A FOREIGNER.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO HAVE A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER FROM A STATE HE HAS NEVER LIVED IN.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO PRESIDE OVER A CUT TO THE CREDIT-RATING OF THE UNITED STATES.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO VIOLATE THE WAR POWERS ACT.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO BE HELD IN CONTEMPT OF COURT FOR ILLEGALLY OBSTRUCTING OIL DRILLING IN THE GULF OF MEXICO.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO DEFY A FEDERAL JUDGE’S COURT ORDER TO CEASE IMPLEMENTING THE HEALTH CARE REFORM LAW.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO REQUIRE ALL AMERICANS TO PURCHASE A PRODUCT FROM A THIRD PARTY, A VIOLATION OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO SPEND A TRILLION DOLLARS ON ‘SHOVEL-READY’ JOBS WHEN THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS ‘SHOVEL-READY’ JOBS.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO RECOMMEND CHANGING OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM AS IT PORTRAYS AND PROMOTES VIOLENCE AND IS WARLIKE IN ITS THEME.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO CANCEL THE NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER BREAKFAST AND ACTIVITIES.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO INITIATE A CASH FOR CLUNKERS PROGRAM TO CLEAN UP EXHAUST THAT ADDS TO GLOBAL WARMING, THEN EXTENDED IT BECAUSE IT WAS SO POPULAR — WASTING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO ABROGATE BANKRUPTCY LAW TO TURN OVER CONTROL OF COMPANIES TO HIS UNION SUPPORTERS.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO BYPASS CONGRESS AND IMPLEMENT THE DREAM ACT THROUGH EXECUTIVE FIAT.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO ORDER A SECRET AMNESTY PROGRAM THAT STOPPED THE DEPORTATION OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ACROSS THE U.S., INCLUDING THOSE WITH CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO DEMAND A COMPANY HAND OVER $20 BILLION TO ONE OF HIS POLITICAL APPOINTEES.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO TERMINATE AMERICA’S ABILITY TO PUT A MAN IN SPACE.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO HAVE A LAW SIGNED BY AN AUTO-PEN WITHOUT BEING PRESENT.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO ARBITRARILY DECLARE AN EXISTING LAW UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND REFUSE TO ENFORCE IT.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO THREATEN INSURANCE COMPANIES IF THEY PUBLICLY SPOKE OUT ON THE REASONS FOR THEIR RATE INCREASES.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO TELL A MAJOR MANUFACTURING COMPANY WHICH STATE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO LOCATE A FACTORY IN.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO FILE LAWSUITS AGAINST THE STATES HE SWORE AN OATH TO PROTECT (AZ, WI, OH, IN).
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO WITHDRAW AN EXISTING COAL PERMIT THAT HAD BEEN PROPERLY ISSUED YEARS AGO.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO FIRE AN INSPECTOR GENERAL OF AMERICORPS FOR CATCHING ONE OF HIS FRIENDS IN A CORRUPTION CASE.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO APPOINT 45 CZARS TO REPLACE ELECTED OFFICIALS IN HIS OFFICE.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO GOLF 73 SEPARATE TIMES IN HIS FIRST TWO AND A HALF YEARS IN OFFICE, 90 TO DATE.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO PLEDGE COMPLETE TRANSPARENCY WHILE CAMPAIGNING, THEN HIDE HIS MEDICAL, EDUCATIONAL,AND TRAVEL RECORDS.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO WIN A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE FOR DOING NOTHING TO EARN IT.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO GO ON MULTIPLE GLOBAL ‘APOLOGY TOURS’.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO GO ON 17 LAVISH VACATIONS, INCLUDING DATE NIGHTS AND WEDNESDAY EVENING WHITE HOUSE PARTIES FOR HIS FRIENDS; PAID FOR BY THE TAXPAYER.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO HAVE 22 PERSONAL SERVANTS (TAXPAYER FUNDED) FOR HIS WIFE.
    FIRST PRESIDENT TO KEEP A DOG TRAINER ON RETAINER FOR $102,000 A YEAR AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE.

    FIRST PRESIDENT TO REPEAT THE HOLY QUR’AN AND TELLS US THAT THE EARLY MORNING ISLAMIC CALL TO WORSHIP IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SOUND ON EARTH.

  25. anti soak May 28, 2012 at 11:45 am #

    ‘You don’t have to be a feminist’ [!!!!]
    Have you noticed how many wimmen haters post here?
    Are you saying our dear JHK is, as well?
    All too Luddite in the ‘trad roles’?

  26. GAZ May 28, 2012 at 11:55 am #

    ……44th consecutive POTUS to be a sock puppet for the people who spent the money required to get him there.

  27. PRD May 28, 2012 at 12:18 pm #

    Memorial Day is a day of shame for me, a day to reflect on the wasted, ruined lives that have resulted from the U.S.’s imperialistic role as the world’s bully. The fallen, and the spouses and children left behind, should be pitied for being the victims they are, not celebrated as heroes (which is just a way for the rest of us to feel better about our out-of-control country). I hope every person at a siss-boom-bah parade today donates to a veteran aid group.

  28. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 12:19 pm #

    Yes, the Nightmare is drawing to an end and Mr Kunstler sees the light at the end of the tunnel. And once we emerge, it’s not going to look anything like what we have come to expect. He is adapting to the new reality already. Many are not. This is why Lucan fled screaming from this site back to his chicks with dicks head space of special entitlements for special people.
    No one is special and no one deserves anything. That’s just another way of saying that we are all special and deserve everything. I just took the Liberal Logic and showed what it means in reality – which of course they wont like at all.

  29. welles May 28, 2012 at 12:20 pm #

    haha, why do you even bother anymore? do you think it will be different with a so-called ‘right-wing’ president, vs. this alleged ‘left-wing’ president?
    you write in all caps….they’ve really got you trapped in the high-energy burnout foaming on about injustices…i used to be there…it is a GAME and YOU are a PAWN.
    there’s no use playing, for either ‘team’. unplug, drop out to a nice place abroad after you research; plenty of places where simple human values still abound, food is commonly organic & people don’t need invitations to visit, they simply show up and then you talk, share your food….it’s good ol’ fashion’d homespun living, and once you get over the shock and detoxify from american life you’ll love it & wish you’d done it years ago.
    peace peaceniks

  30. azgog May 28, 2012 at 12:24 pm #

    I think the human race (or what’s left of it) will eventually look back and realize that we squandered not only our one time energy bounty but also our genetic health in an orgy of materialism and consumption. The ecosphere has been permanently polluted by more radiation, herbicides and thousands of toxic chemicals, including many estrogen mimics, than we can survive.
    Look around you – do many if not most of the current and younger generation seem like damaged goods? Obese, pre-diabetic, gender confused (physically and mentally) and with no firm attachment to reality (other than a wierd fixation with celebrity and “social” networks.

  31. Puzzler May 28, 2012 at 12:27 pm #

    Laura Louzader, yours is the best comment here on CFN in a long time — well thought-out and nicely written.
    As a male, I too find Kunstler’s comfort in traditional gender roles disconcerting.
    Thanks for making my morning.

  32. Cavepainter May 28, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    Catch up: If availability of calories hadn’t been so uncertain during evolution and had our oversized brain not been such a “gas hog”, concept of God (and such) would not have come about.
    Anxiety causes our huge brain to burn calories at accelerated rate. Humans process sensory input into concepts, result of which is the concept of linier time – past, present and all the apprehensions that arise from imagining a future.
    Necessarily, our psyche had to contrive a compensating concept of an over-arching power we could cajole into intervening on our behalf against all the otherwise ineluctable forces of nature surrounding us.
    God, the concept, is taken from the template formed in our mind during infancy when our security of mind and body are dependent upon our parents’ power – which is totally mysterious to us as, say, “God acts in mysterious ways”.
    As the evolutionary zoologist inform us, humans would not have survived without such great capacity for denial of reality – that of a God concept whose actions are outcome of our behavior, either in pleasing or not doing the bidding of him/her/it/them.

  33. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 12:32 pm #

    Louise, these are the desperate rationalizations of a failed Feminist Culture. Women vote based on looks, charm, and goodies – not goodness. They still love Bill Clinton, a serious abuser of women. Poor Monica can’t move on. Five minutes with an Alpha Male will ruin a woman for any ordianry man. Why should she set her sights lower? She can’t now after “Bill”.
    Giving Women the vote was the death knell of our Culture. The majority, they vote in greater numbers and in large blocs. They have brought us to where we are now. Where else in the world can a woman falsely claim rape and destroy a man’s life – and when found out face no punishment whatsoever?
    The American population exploded as did the world’s even before modern medicine. Many died but more than replacement levels survived. It was rough but the people were tough – and the sexes were united not disunited as they are now.

  34. Jimmy Drinkwater May 28, 2012 at 12:38 pm #

    This was a snapshot of the much smaller-scale and local economy of America’s future, techno-narcissistic fantasies aside. I don’t know whether these people represent a lifeboat, or if these qualities of character can be enacted in a wider consensual culture, and one not necessarily based on religious doctrine, which I am not so avid about.

    The religious angle has historically almost always proved to be problematic JHK, too much room there for wayward and obtuse bents to exercised (exorcised?). On the other hand in history there have been successes with some groups, the Shakers for example, where the guiding principles of something greater than oneself proved to be the necessary focus to avert pettiness and greed and I guess to promote industry for the common good.
    That aside, I see that up in our neck o’ the woods of New England, just north of here and April’s ‘Eyesore of the Month” a slow living summit will be taking place this coming week. A not bad thing and pretty decent itinerary: slowlivingsummit.org/ I don’t think any religious invocations nor shaking will be going on there so I might attend. The strolling of heifers at least, lol, and we’ll ride our bikes there.
    alttransbikes.blogspot.com/

  35. anti soak May 28, 2012 at 12:41 pm #

    ‘YOU are a PAWN.’
    If you say so! like the caps! Cheers.

  36. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 12:45 pm #

    A rising Football Star gets sentenced to 45 years for a rape he didn’t commit. After 5 years the sentence is overturned. He plans to try to get into the NFL but he’s kind of old now…
    And what does the woman, the liar, get for destroying this man’s life? Nothing.
    Now tell me again about Patriarchy and who are the second class citizens.
    the-spearhead.com/2012/05/27/what-can-make-a-grown-man-cry/
    Obviously, she should go to jail for 45 years. Such penalties are the only thing which will stop women from wreaking the havoc they are doing.

  37. Michigan Native May 28, 2012 at 12:49 pm #

    In nature, the ones with the most testosterone tend to specialize in hunting, while those who lack it specialize in gathering it.
    Just because we are going to be forced to get back to simpler, hunter-gatherer societies based on far less resource consumption does not necessarily make those who point out its inevitably sexist or gloating over male dominated cultures. Males dominate the show right now, and look at what a great fucking job they have done, people of WASP descsent in particular, and just when you think females are the kinder, gentler species, enter Condolizzard Rice, Hitlery Clinton, that she-male Anne Coulter, or even Maggie Thatcher, and other witches from Macbeth. So much for that myth.
    Humans and the societies try to maximize strategies for energy subsidies. The use of tools, trade, harnessing the enrgy from fossil fuels which has given rise to this relatively brief anomaly in human history called industrialization brought on by the 200 or year less age of petroleum, or more aptly called the petroleum interval or industrial bubble, specialization is another way to maximize energy capture.
    Thus, those who are good at hunting will bring home the meat, those who are not will gather the nuts and berries and make the clothes. It is no scheme or plot to deprive women of their supposed right to kill and act like assholes as men presently do.

  38. Michigan Native May 28, 2012 at 12:53 pm #

    Regarding organized religion…..couldn’t agree more. All forms of mental illness or people who live in fear and find solace in leaning on some book for security.

  39. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 1:05 pm #

    Unplug? What about you – you’re not unplugged down there. Or do you think that Brazilians are just superior for some reason? Immune to the corruption that comes from wealth? If so, why? Not a rhetorical question, I’m interested to hear what you say. Maybe America was built on faulty foundations and this fate was inevitable. On the other hand, all regimes fall and corruption and decay seem endemic to the human condition.
    I mean look at Brazilian Butte surgery. All the Braizlians want the J Lo Butte. And Brazilian Quacks have come up to America with their cement mixers and injected it into American Women too. The results are horrific and sometimes fatal.

  40. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 1:14 pm #

    I think I met this group in Boston: the 12 Tribes. They try to live as Israelites and they are more wholesome that the average American. Their attempts at conversion are often friendlier and less creepy than many conventional born agains. Their headquarters was in Vermnont. They ran into some legal trouble both there and in Boston because of their use of the rod on children.
    A far cry from Consciousnees without an Object or even a Subject. But It will come as men can recieve It. It cannot stand a vaccum and matter is nothing but such an absence. Thus we can only know in part while seemingly encased in these bodies. Speaking of which, how is your’s doing?
    I defended you against Ozone last week. He hates you because you don’t dream of factories and unions but also for the reason that I hate you. So my defence was against the first not the latter.

  41. welles May 28, 2012 at 1:20 pm #

    …yes i am unplugged down here, to a great extent. unplugged from pre-programmed food, a population dying of obesity and psychotropic illness, from never-ending politicization of nigger vs. whitey vs. wetback. you want a real melting pot? come on down, i’ll show it to you.
    we ain’t got no fake wars to wage, or faux patriotism to cover up atrocities waged on other countries.
    it’s calm, we work hard but we relax each day in traditional fashion – together. no 24-hour go-go lifestyle burning out to get the latest i-shit.
    we have very tight community down here, everyone pitches in, there is tremendous interfamily support because the people have basically only themselves to turn to.
    i only comment on brasil cuz it happens to be where i am. i’d be commenting from the perspective of russians if i lived there.
    they’re not immune to corruption. i’ve never heard of a single brazilian wanting the j lo butt. there’s plenty of boob implants, sure thing, and of course all kinds of plastic surgery. says nothing about family values tho’, which are strong as five-inch thick rope.
    all regimes fall because humans are bound by Newton’s law of entropy just as any other system is.
    give any system time and it tends to become more entropic.
    yep we got problems here too, what nation doesn’t?
    peace peaceniks

  42. San Jose Mom 51 May 28, 2012 at 1:22 pm #

    What a horrible grocery shopping experience! I can just guess what was in the mom’s shopping cart–soda, chips, frozen chicken nuggets, Wonderbread, and hot dogs.
    Here is what appears to be a trend in San Jose….brace yourself: RIP carwashes. If you read the Mercury news, you may remember that a few months ago, that a gang was having a car wash to raise funds to pay for a funeral of a gangbanger. A latino guy wearing the wrong color walked by with his small dog on a leash. The washers beat him and killed his dog. The victim claimed he had no affiliations, but you never know.
    Since then, I’ve seen two other memorial/latino carwashes. Yesterday, not far from my house there was a congregation of 40 or so folks holding a memorial car wash. Sexy cholos were waving signs, “RIP Rudy,”Car Wash.” Wearing red (did they know it was pentecost Sunday?) and Raiders regalia, they had about six cars in the process of being washed. They even had a tent set up with refreshments–soda, chips, cookies. I don’t know how many car washes it takes to buy a grave plot? Ugh.

  43. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    Yes the sexes have different roles in survival situations – which was most of Human History. They had to stay in the Cave or Village taking care of children. And also their agility and endurance are compromised when pregnant – which was much of the time. They did go out to gather berries and roots. And they did most of the gardening when humaity got to that stage. Thus they were quite busy and may well have provided more calories than the meat hunted by the men.
    No generation of women ever had it better than pre-Feminist America and Europe. But the envied men and that was their downfall and our’s as well. Everytime they thought of work, they fantasized about exciting careers and not the shit jobs that the vast majority of men actuall did. They were encouraged in this and thus temped, they fell. Now they have to work as their entry into the workforce lower wages for everyone. Betrayed even as Eve was betrayed in the Garden by Satan.
    Women’s place is in the home. So is men’s. Who the hell wants to work in factories and offices with people you hate? What Mad Evil Genius designed all this?

  44. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 1:30 pm #

    Is it a Blue Zone? Some doctors have written about places where many live to advanced ages. Okinowa is one and the Nicosia Penninusa in Costa Rica another.
    The reasons are the ones you mention: good food, friends, family, leisure, etc. Whites are too Promethean and thus invoke Epimetheus his brother. Hubris in a word. Hope we can learn the simple things without giving up all of our love of Knowledge and Adventure. I’m not hopeful since our Elite seem bent on killing us off. That’s their big adventure…

  45. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

    You have come far. You know now that you live behind enemy lines. I rejoice in the blossoming of your awareness.
    Buddhism is ungrounded and wont survive btw. That’s why it was so easily killed off by the Muslims in India. It was the religion of intellectuals and homos. Very urban. Hinduism on the other hand was very grounded and survived. But Buddhism does seems to have taken root in East Asia though. Even though White, Buddha was adopted most by the Yellow Race.
    Anyway, I suspect America will be like ancient India in this. Christainity will survive but not Buddhism or Yoga.

  46. Rhino May 28, 2012 at 1:39 pm #

    The demoralization of the larger American public is so stark and pronounced that you can smell it in the rising heat. – JHK
    I think that this demoralization is key to the decay and decline of the United States. Who would have guessed 200 years ago when the United States consisted mostly of farms and communities hugging the Atlantic coast what the United States would become.
    The story of the 20th Century, the way that I read it, is the conflict between three contending systems for organizing society: communism, fascism and western democracy. Fascism was defeated by and large by its chief foe, communism. For a long time it looked as though communism could and would win the battle against western democracies.
    If it wasn’t for the United States, IMO, it would have been so. Very few people would have guessed from the perspective of the 1960s or 1970s that the clock was running out communist despotism. Having said this despotism isn’t dead in the world (ie China, North Korea, Burma and Cuba).
    They say that pride goes before the fall. But if arrogance can lead to downfall so can a lack of collective self belief.

  47. BeingThere May 28, 2012 at 1:42 pm #

    Thanks JHK for sharing tracing a road map to the de-evolution of our back-to-the-future paradigms of how we might arrange our survival. Can’t say I’m looking forward to that day!
    Love the name Clusterfuck Farm and am looking forward to seeing the label and logo that goes with it!
    That said, I have to agree totally with Laura Louzader who wrote a beautiful response to your post today. Kudos, Laura one of your bests posts ever.
    I’ve always said you have a romantic vision of the 19th century and much of your aesthetic sensibilities move in that direction.
    I, for one am happy in an equal partnership in my relationship and for me that is the ideal.

  48. BeantownBill May 28, 2012 at 1:47 pm #

    Much of the strong dislike of American culture I see on CFN is a result of where we are on the “change curve”. Rate of technological change is apparently an exponential function, and we’re at the point on the graph where its slope is sharply increasing. We don’t know what our society wil be like in the future, but we do know it will be vastly different; there’s no going back, even in a thorough collapse.
    In a culture experiencing rapid change, much strife occurs at the intersection of the present and past with the future. Many of today’s issues result from technological evolution.
    Genetics has raised questions about the importance of racial characteristics.
    Just as Jewish strictures about eating pork arose from our vulnerability to the bacteria contained in the processing and handling of pig food, moral rules against abortion that linger today arose from the high death rate from lack of hygiene. Now, abortion is an issue as the past, present and future intersect.
    The concept of God or Gods served a purpose. But now, with advances in physics, it can be shown that the universe and its evolution could have originated as a random event, without a prime cause. So today, the future of religion is murky, and we have a widening divide between religion and science that is the result of the past and present intersecting with the future.
    I could go on with many other examples of issues on the frontline of change, but you get the idea. Try to look at the present and future through the filter of change, and suddenly the inevitability of the future becomes more clear. A good sense of perspective is a prime survival trait.

  49. Jimmy Drinkwater May 28, 2012 at 1:50 pm #

    An AP story in this morning’s paper says: “Holiday ushers in driving season”. Ha, if there ever were a manufactured meme, that is one of them.

    Cheap gas makes the wide open spaces of America seem full of possibility and adventure. When it’s expensive, we think twice about setting out. Driving is a symbol of freedom in America.

    See the U.S.A. in your Chevrolet…………
    alttransbikes.blogspot.com/

  50. Rhino May 28, 2012 at 1:54 pm #

    Further to my last post: what comes first, systemic collapse that breeds demoralization or demoralization that breeds systemic collapse ie the notion that the system is too big to deal with or understand, too broken, the players that have a vested interest in it too powerful so nothing can be done.
    A whole lot was made of this Occupy Wall Street movement. But what came of it? Nothing. It was symptomatic of this societal demoralization. It was disorganized, lacking in focus, lacking a central theme, lacking a charismatic leader with a coherent message or set of ideas, lacking in energy and ruthlessness. It was a half hearted, guitar strumming kumbaya moment and Wall Street laughed. So did Wall Street’s fart boys in Washington.
    Americans have to stop listening to people (usually the intelligentsia) telling them that they are the worst. No doubt, Americans are the worst (and paraphrasing Churchill I think) but for all the others.

  51. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

    Throw away society? Even people? Especially people. Management says, You better watch you mouth punk, cuz there’s a million behind who’ll take your job in a heartbeat.
    A man without a job is a bum. A man looking for a job is a beggar. A man who finds a job becomes a slave. It is a degenerating downwardly mobile process.
    Change? Why? They like it this way. They’re breeding us out now that they don’t need us anymore. Just as when the cattle drives became a thing of the past, they didn’t need the long horn cattle anymore. The Longhorns were strong and could live on their own and hold their own against wolves, cougars, bad weather etc. So that meant they were dangerous and hard to work with. So they were bred out with lesser more domesticated breeds.

  52. wardoc May 28, 2012 at 2:15 pm #

    “Life will be about doing what you can with what you have where you are, and will take more imagination, creativity, and flexibility than the folks in the little neo-medieval commune Kunstler describes, can imagine. ”
    Nice thoughts, but so naive that I am literally shocked. Kunstler is simply describing how things are likely to evolve and that’s it.
    Perhaps Laura has never seen the 3rd world up close and personal (i.e. outside a tour bus), and surely she has not seen any prior collapse (e.g. Sarajevo, Bosnia, USSR, Ughanda). In every case, (and I served in two of these aforementioned settings as a MASH unit doc) when the shit hits the fan, and people become hungry and thirsty, civility goes out the window, as does any concerns over fairness or political correctness.
    Women in those settings are primarily concerned with avoiding being gang raped, and then possibly cooked and eaten (when sex with them becomes undesirable). Their secondary concern is to protect their children if they have any.
    “Equality,” in our western terms also goes out the window, as men are more likely to be able to protect their families from the roving raping and pillaging gangs that inevitably emerge. A division of labor emerges around the following activities: 1) perimeter security, 2) acquisition of water, 3) acquisition and prep of food. Nothing else really matters, especially bullshit about fairness and sexual equality. The above three jobs must be done, IN THE MOST EFFICIENT MANNER POSSIBLE, or the group (e.g. family) dies or is killed.
    What we all don’t like to talk about is in the 2011 FBI gang report in no uncertain terms. I just read it. Gang membership is nearing one million in the US right now, and is doubling EVERY TWO YEARS !!!! Let that sink in.
    I am truly sorry that humans, ALL humans are wired this way, but we are. When the SHTF the least of one’s concerns will have anything to do with political correctness and gender fairness. It will concern physical survival at any cost. It’s all happened many time before and will happen many times again. Here we go, so hold on to your panties, literally.
    Lock and load,
    Wardoc

  53. Nastarana May 28, 2012 at 2:16 pm #

    1. About yard sales.
    Ebay has pretty much ruined thrift store and yard sale shopping. Now, don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against Ebay and similar ventures which allow unsociable people unimproved by orthodontia to make decent livings, and which also allow people to receive good prices for good quality stuff. I think the person selling off Grandpa’s tools should expect and be able to receive something like their true market value.
    Furthermore, most folks help out the relatives by passing along good quality, pre-1950s tools, pans, etc. My daughters are using kitchinware I was able to pass along.
    What yard sales are good for is finding things that can be recycled and reused. Lots of stuff that be turned into garden trelllises, temporary pots for seedlings, containers for winter sowing, etc., is one example. Anyone who sews can find buttons, zippers, of better quality than your local fabric store carries, which only need to be detatched from their garments, which can then be used for cleaning rags. Large sized clothes made of good quality natural fabrics can be recut for your own use. Men’s extra large shirts, esp if made from linen or cotton/linen make wonderful garden shirts. The fabric breathes, but is thick enough to repell mosquitoes, and every essential part of your person is covered, so as you don’t scare the neighbors.
    2. Deacon Soloman: The Tea Party are not and never were “blue collar”, and I think you know this. The Tea Party are the folks who used to run every small town across the country, the used car dealers, real estate agents, insurance agents, etc etc, who got so used to living off rents that when the rents declined, they didn’t know what to do with themselves. They are hopping mad because now they have to work like everyone else does.

  54. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 2:24 pm #

    Give me a fucking break. Ever hear of “moveon.com”? Where do you think they’re moving to? Did you know that Hillary Clinton was not only a disciple but a friend of the late Saul Alinsky, author of “Rules for Radicals”? And that Obama was a disciple as well?
    Communism can call itself anything it wants to and still be Communism. Right now it call itself the Democratic Party. What do you think Obamacare is but a naked power grab of 1/6 of the economy – at least? Did you know that the Catholic Church has launced a gigantic counter offensive with dozens of lawsuits? Now think real hard – Why do you think the Mainstream Media has not said a word about this? Think it might be a Conspiracy? Huh, do ya? Do ya?
    And of course the Republicans are funded by some of the same people. But you see,I never believed Communism as all. It is and has always been a Conspiracy by the Ultra Rich against all other people, nations, and forms of goverment. Needless to say, most Communists don’t know that. And needless to say Hillary does and it doesn’t change a thing. She is quite capable of being a true believer and a benificiary. She is a Woman after all. And lots of men can also juggle these incompatibles too. Being a useful idiot or a useful savant matters not as long as you are of use.

  55. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    Tell them about the food whores, Doc. They are too proud after decades of media ass kissing. Being humble will help them survive and appreciate good men instead of tearing them down.
    Footage exists of American G.I’s teasing German children with food and then snatching it away. They were forbidden to be kind to Germans Civilians after all. But being kind to Japanese was OK. Interesting huh? You’d think it would be the same if not the opposite. It’s almost like we’re ruled by an alien group or something.

  56. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

    But are you willing to pay the price of equality? Equal penalties for equal crimes? No getting out of the Armed Forces by “finding yourself” pregnant? No more destroying men in domestic courts? No more automatic custody or kicking men out of their own homes?
    And of course, charges of false rape get the same sentence as what the man got or would have gotten. And total media exposure so the Liar’s reputation is permanently ruined. You have no problem with that I assume? It IS the price of equality and you people haven’t begun to pay yet.

  57. Nickelthrower May 28, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    Greetings,
    I’ve always thought November 11 (Armistice Day) to be a more appropriate day to reflect upon our service men and women and the terrible ordeals that they have had to endure. Frankly, I wish they would drop this silly “holiday”.
    I live in a tourist town in S. California and the marina where I live is crawling with tourists. Watching families from LA huff and puff their way out of their giant SUV’s and waddle on to the beach for their obligatory view of the ocean before they make way to the nearest restaurant is a sobering event. How people can become so fat, pasty and useless never ceases to amaze me.
    My female black lab loves to dig in the sand, play in the waves and even learned how to surf (when she was 8 if you can believe that)and I’m glad that she doesn’t have to share the beach with the tourists as they all seem obsessed with the shops and restaurants and hardly notice the ocean at all.
    There is a photography shop across from the beach where you can be photographed in front of a green screen and then they will put different beach scenes behind you – sun set beach, big wave beach, etc. Of course, you could just walk across the street to the beach but that IS asking a lot.
    My only hope is that when the “panic” begins, the roads will clog up to the point that none will make it here. If they do, I’ll just take my food, water and electricity out into the ocean and wait there until it is all over. I shouldn’t have to wait long as I hear that lack of clean drinking water is a real bitch.

  58. DreamCycle May 28, 2012 at 2:51 pm #

    Having joined the National Nurses United and anti- war protests during the NATO conference, I think I’ll stick with the nurses and another group we met: the Eighth Day Center For Justice. This group is made up of nuns, priests and Catholic lay people who are concerned with social justice issues such as the uneven distribution of wealth, immigration policy, etc. All they do is protest and witness for people who have little or no voice. Although I am not at all religious I believe that these folks (and the nurses) can get things done. For me the main issue is Medicare for all and I’d rather fight for this than retreat to the farm. You can grow a vegetable garden AND make change and you don’t have to stick to any gender roles….

  59. BeingThere May 28, 2012 at 2:53 pm #

    Vlad,
    Yuk, I’m bored with you already and I just got back on this blog—same old same old nonsense.

  60. Dandy May 28, 2012 at 2:54 pm #

    JHK, you really need to find a better class of yard sales. Stop shopping on the poor white trash side of town. Or is that pretty much all that’s left in the failing remnants of the Rust Belt? On the other hand, TV shows like Antique Roadshow have educated people. They sell all their good stuff (if they have any) on Ebay now.

  61. Laura Louzader May 28, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

    Please, Vlad.
    Women are no more likely to vote on “looks and charm” than males are, and you’ll note that the finest and wisest prez we ever had in this country, Dwight Eisenhower, was favored by the majority of women, who saw in him a force for stability, sensibility, restraint, and wise use of power. These are traits prized by women.
    We are no more likely to vote for “looks and charm” than the Republican males who promoted people like Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin- why on EARTH would anybody notice these women for anything but their looks? Reagan was voted in on the basis of his personal charm and looks by males, who identified with his persona in films and the image of the wholesome, all-American male he projected as a politician. BOTH sexes are equally likely to vote for candidates strictly on the basis of personal image and traits that have little or nothing to do with his or her ability to deal with issues, else Ron Paul would have made a much better showing than he did, much to our shame.
    Women voted for Clinton because he favored positions on reproductive rights that were favorable to women, and defended women’s rights in other areas. And I really can’t figure how this guy comes out as an “abuser” of women simply because he was a philanderer and adulterer. There are also unfortunately many women adulterers- I would not call them “abusers” of men because of it, but would simply say that men and women with Clinton’s disposition don’t make terribly good mates. Mind you, I have much against Clinton, mainly his promotion of NAFTA, but on women’s issues he was fine. So much could not be said of his Republican opposition, that also favored NAFTA.
    This country was “ruined” quite a few years before women’s suffrage. Theodore Roosevelt was one of the principal authors of our ruin for it was he who decided this country would become and empire and “moral” (?) force in the world. The second cornerstone of our ruin was the formation of the Federal Reserve. Roosevelt was voted in by a strictly male electorate, and the Fed was formed by lawmakers voted in by an all-male electorate. Slavery was continued after the formation of the nation by an all male electorate; a decision we are paying for to this day.

  62. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 3:05 pm #

    Don’t get me wrong: the no fraternizing with Germans didn’t mean the GI’s didn’t take advantage of starving German Female Food Whores. It’s hard, I know. But people, especially women, are so clueless that you have to spell out all the gory details or they just wont get it.

  63. Buck Stud May 28, 2012 at 3:07 pm #

    Excellent essay this week JHK. This sentence in particular resonates with a pathetic truth:

    If this is where consumer culture crawled off to die, then what possible zeitgeist awaits a people left so hopelessly de-cultured on aspiration’s lowest ladder-rung?

    But if the seekers of today want to “self-identify” beyond the superficiality of gender delineations, they might begin by casting aside “One Tin Soldier” generation and the false Billy Jack hat donned only until they embraced their self-serving sellout moment. A moment, by the way, that is still being shouldered by those in the lower age brackets.

  64. Laura Louzader May 28, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    The woman who lied about the football player raping her should do major time for this. Bearing false witness, especially concerning a major crime, is itself a particularly vile crime that in this case resulted in an innocent man having to endure 5 years of sheer hell in a maximum security prison.
    I have never met these women who falsely accuse men of rape, but I’m appalled at women who do this. It makes life much more difficult for real victims.

  65. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 3:15 pm #

    Eisenhower was a punk who put above far more qualified officers because of his superfical charm by the Ruler of America at that time, one Bernard Baruch. FDR was largely a figure head and tool – although a gifted and valuable one of course.
    Good points about the Fed and Teddy. Many men shouldn’t be voting either. Let’s let people vote according to their knowledge, and a personal history of civic responsibility. Some women will make it but it will be mostly men – but not most men. At the local level we could let most people vote making progressively harder for the State and Federal.
    You are a Man, Laura. No higher praise can I give. Unlike your shrill sisters, you would not have voted for Prohibition, banning guns, and curfews and checkpoints to stop drunk drivers etc. Hope you are for equal justice for equal people too. (I have a different paradigm so I don’t pretend to believe in a blanket equality. So no Title 9 etc)
    Chris Matthews is a women.

  66. IS4U May 28, 2012 at 3:17 pm #

    From your description this was likely the Twelve Tribes community called “The Common Sense Farm” in Canbridge, NY.
    I doubt whether the Twelve Tribes communities are going to be lifeboats if contraction occurs. They have a reputation of being repressive of folks straying from the flock. There have been controversies about harsh physical punishment of children. You can read all about it by googling the “Twelve Tribes” community.
    From personal experience I’ve seen them micro-manage visits by relatives outside their communities. Grandparents, who are not members, only get to visit their grandchildren on the terms of the father and elders in the community.
    Is that why you seem to look foward to collapse, Jim? Would you like to live in a selective recreation of an Isreali community in the time of Jesus (Master “Yahshua” in Aremaic)—–selectively recreated by former radical fundamentalists and evangelicals? You would need to clean up your foul language for fear of severely spanked and/or shunned in your old age. And of course, they would expect that you renounce all allegiance to your Jewish heritage.
    IMHO local communities will need openness to new ideas, inclusiveness, and tolerance to survive collapse. These Twelve Tribe communities work very hard to manage the public impression that they live in harmony and grace—-but I think the reality of living in these communities is much darker.

  67. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 3:24 pm #

    Bravo, you a true daughter of Athena, the ultimate Man’s Woman who loved Men. No finer symbol of a higher or Solar Femininity exists. Coming straight from Zeus, you are free from all Cthonic Taints. Note the Cth – the root of Cthulu the Great. But you must realize that other women are not as you and must be under our control. Meditate on this and you will see it. Plato himself recognzied a few women as capable of a higher individualized Destiny. There was one a the Symposium who held forth on the subject of Love.
    It has been said that Cthulu will come again when the Stars are Right. And when He comes, the Earth will convulse in Terror and Savage Joy. He is obviously here or on his way. Prepare and in your case, Flee. Chicago is going to be one of his Capitals. Obama and Rahm are merely forerunners.

  68. Buck Stud May 28, 2012 at 3:28 pm #

    Since it’s Memorial Day I will take the time to salute those who somehow found a way to arrive in the theater of war despite being too old to actually serve in the armed forces. Men like my grandfather who became swept away by the martial spirit blazing across the land in the wake of Pearl Harbor and who had some genetic “Per Mare, Per Terras” invocation whispering in their ears.
    Yes, the sea was calling like some romantic, ancient Dalraida mist and so he enlisted in the Merchant Marines. But it wasn’t all danger out there on the high seas of the Pacific. Gone for a few years at least was the everyday drudgery of raising two toddlers and the nags of a housewife negotiating the rationing severity of WW2. And no doubt he was able to pop a cork and drink with unreserved abandon, free from the castigating fingers of those who thought they knew better. And I have to say, that picture of him in Hawaii looked to be the happiest moment of his life; I wonder what hooker he hooked up with the night before?
    For a certain type of man, only a certain type of war makes life worth living. And that’s the truth.

  69. San Jose Mom 51 May 28, 2012 at 3:30 pm #

    Amazing how much time is spent swapping junk. I’ve never had a garage sale because my garage is where we park our two cars. Some of my neighbors have junk filled to the rafters of their garages. How do they accumulate so much stuff?
    My next door neighbor has been trying for three years to clean her garage. No car has been parked inside for a decade. If she’d just get rid of her horrible, Disney Christmas decorations, she’d at least have some hope.

  70. JL Eagan May 28, 2012 at 3:32 pm #

    Part of the problem in allowing reader comments here is that you can have the occasional visitor wandering in and bleating with some large ugly batch of alternate reality fiction and confusion swarming around their heads. I see today we have this from a creature calling itself “anti soak”.
    In a more useful input, I think there was a good glimpse of something added above in a different kind of thing that can be found in garage sale world.
    There is, indeed, a whole hell of a lot to be found around where any of us live, those of us in the US, in the domain of cheap shit garbage out on display to be unloaded that was really worthless trash in most cases when it was brand shiny new. It’s a different kind of disturbing to see what one reader observed; people selling off something that is old and perhaps even a little funky around the edges and needing some TLC and repair, but overall is something that was made with notions of quality and usefulness and even good aesthetics, that is now being unloaded by someone because they have replaced it with some brand new shiny crap that is crap right from the store.
    There are people whose sense of value and quality and usefulness is so deranged that they seem to have no ability to gauge these things. That’s a problem.
    JLE

  71. Eleuthero May 28, 2012 at 3:32 pm #

    Vlad said:
    No one is special and no one deserves anything. That’s just another way of saying that we are all special and deserve everything. I just took the Liberal Logic and showed what it means in reality – which of course they wont like at all.
    ****************************************************************
    That first line should be embossed in gold and placed on a plaque in the White House, Vlad. “Liberal logic” is, of course, the idea that everybody (except white males) is “special” and deserves handouts in perpetuity for alleged wrongs of generations which no longer exist.
    One reason why I left education is precisely this “entitlement” issue that one deserves “perks” for doing what any person of good breeding and conscience should do naturally without “prizes”.
    We’ve dissociated rewards from decorum or performance and that’s why we’ve not only got problems with various subcultures in the USA but also Gen-Y.
    E.

  72. Nikolaz May 28, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

    Thought provoking article JHK. The diversions out of our imploding culture need not be profound.

  73. Laura Louzader May 28, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

    I’m a woman, Vlad, and I think like one. Most of the women I know think pretty much like me. They despise the Welfare Nanny State and the Corporate Welfare State, and, like me, believe you should be left to your own devices and should not be able to impose your costs on other people.
    No, I would not have voted for prohibition (which caused more drunkenness), or for banning guns, but I do support prosecuting drunk drivers. Perhaps that’s because I had one in my family who finally killed someone before doing time (not enough time IMO), and had a high school classmate who was a star athlete become a quadraplegic in 3/8 of a second when he was broad-sided at 50mph by a drunk. A drunk driver is a common killer as far as I’m concerned.
    I just MIGHT be persuaded to agree to forcible sterilization given the number of idiots and dependents the welfare-enabled lower classes are producing. But I believe that scaling back their entitlements and not allowing them to impose their costs on the rest of us while making sure that birth control, sterilization and yes, abortion are readily available would work a lot better. The non-coercive means of motivation tend to work much better than coercion in inducing good behavior. Coercion should be reserved for people who won’t keep their hands off other people and their goods, like our bankster class and common criminals.

  74. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

    Good Buck. I watched Billy Jack as a little kid and thought it was great. I watched it a few years later as an adolescent and thouht it was fairly trite but enjoy the Hapkido. I watched it as an adult and was horrified by the sentimentality and self righteousness and the stereotyping of Whites.

  75. ASPO Article 1037 May 28, 2012 at 3:36 pm #

    Whether or not belief in the Divinity of Jesus the Christ is crucial in one’s life, the early Christian writings of Luke & Paul do offer some insights to harmonious living. If graduate school beckons, see the Gospel Book of John.
    For the foundations of Christianity, and by this we mean culturally as well as spiritually, see the first 11 Chapters of Genesis. The wonders of science gradually but inexorably add to credibility of the scriptures. Archeology continues to find remnants of places mentioned in the Judeo-Christian saga. Nothing so far to help Mormonism’s North American narrative…
    Isabel Piczek has some science for the New Testament account; NASA scientists have noted some interesting features from space. Some of our astronauts have located geographical features certifying such tall tales as the Red Sea crossing and Moses’ doings in Saudi Arabia. Hmmm.
    Imagine, a nice Jewish boy in Saudi Arabia, of all places!

    Our usual game here is energy & transport, so herewith:
    The armies & navies are circling Syria, Israel and Iran, like they think something is going to happen. Whatever goes down, even absolute Bible scofflaws have to see sobering parallel in the Old Testament prophecies lining up with today’s oilpatch army/navy games.
    These doings are subjects of energy/transport because Mr. Cordesman (ISIS)and the larger world strategic planning bodies say they are… So we offer the usual thought about getting underway with all due haste rebuild of American heritage railway footprint, as seen circa 1900-1960, so many Memorial and Veterans and Armistice days ago… When America was a lending not a borrowing nation…
    Railways are Guarantors of Societal & Commercial Cohesion; don’t travel anywhere in the motor fuel rationing scenario without ’em!

  76. Nikolaz May 28, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

    What is the point of swopping or selling your stuff if you are giving it away at a vastly reduced value, and the currency of exchange is worth jack shit.

  77. Steve M. May 28, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

    This religious cult community sounds much more appealing that most of contemporary American society, where workers struggle for a livable wage and where the greedheads who run this country keep them, as John Lennon said, “doped religion, sex and TV.” The rest of America is sliding into an authoritarian state far more restrictive than the community Mr. Kunstler describes here, beginning with the recall election in Wisconsin in which Scott Walker will wipe the floor with Tom Barrett’s sorry ass, then go after everyone else, with Messrs. Charles and David (Chuck and Dave – where’s Vera, guys?) Koch pulling the strings. Today Wiskonsein, the Reich on the Lake – on November 6, the rest of America. Look for President Romney to use a trumped-up emergency as an excuse to invalidate our passports to keep us from escaping! Maybe the cultists will grant us asylum.

  78. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 3:43 pm #

    Drunk Drivers should lose their licenses for a very, very long time. I’m against check points and curfews. I mean from a Police point of view they make sense, but who wants to live in a police state?
    Most women don’t think rationally. That’s why they elected Obama and will elect the Hillary Beast. And that’s why they love Clinton, no matter what he does. Imagine a Republican were to do what Clinton did, think they would love him? But Bill’s good looks, his charm, and his support of the 51% who want abortion and the right to dispossess men are overwhelming.
    Yes, reproduction effects everyone not just the mother. Babies are not private property. What an evil idea. Slavery ended yet the Court tries to bring it back. But I agree with you about Eugenics. We need it but we don’t want an all powerfull state sterilizing people. Let’s make it voluntary with good incentives and disincentives. Another solar female founded Planned Parenthood – Margaret Sanger. She set up near Black Communities with Eugenics in mind. Naturally, the denizens of that Institution try to hide this now.

  79. helen highwater May 28, 2012 at 3:46 pm #

    Vlad, I really feel sorry for you. You seem to be walking around in a constant state of fear and hatred towards people of colour, women, lesbians, and just about anybody who is not a white male.

  80. Eleuthero May 28, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    LL said:
    Now, we’ve reached planetary limits, and unless we find a way to exploit the resources of our solar system, which seems pretty doubtful, our history going forward will be one of contraction and somehow contriving to construct a “stable state” economy.
    ***************************************************************
    I’ve spoken of “managed” contraction but it’s hopeless, Laura. All the worlds economists are going to run the world at mach 2 into a lead wall with their endless “growth” mentalities.
    Hasn’t anyone wondered why the Clintons have a spread in Patagonia or why Cheney has a residence in Dubai, and so on? It’s Dr. Strangelove all over again and these people are all Strangeloves who have their own “mine shaft” prepared because they all know that “this sucker’s going down”.
    I think that our culture could only survive if we’d started to prepare for resource “armageddon” at least a generation ago. Everything we’ve done is utterly piecemeal. The human race will go through another “keyhole” and only 10% will survive after societies slowing break into utter chaos and countries have lobbed nukes at one another to get some god-forsaken resource in Chad or some other nowhere.
    E.

  81. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 3:57 pm #

    Yes the Koran mentions several lost Civilizations, chastised by God for their Evil ways. One was obsessed with Commerce and Military Might like our’s.
    Too bad we can’t dig in Saudi Arabia, we might find some interesting things. The Muslims say Abraham went down and helped Ishmael build the Kaaba.

  82. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 4:02 pm #

    Just about. “People of colour” – you really are too much. And how about doing the hard work of engaging my argumenst instead of just slandering me? I mean men are being persecuted in family courts – as Mr Kunstler himself briefly recognized once in the Thomas Ball case. Louise went to my link and was horrified at what a woman did to a man. Why don’t you do the same – maybe you wont be horrified at all though. Let us know.

  83. Cavepainter May 28, 2012 at 4:04 pm #

    Oh please,…..personal and societal narratives (myths and lore – including the Bible) are only tangentially connected to actuality.
    They are so because their purpose to the psyche is reassurance that events and circumstances are product of our own actions before a judgmental God or spiritual forces with whom/them/it we have interactive relation.
    That’s our protection against the harsher reality that forces of nature and fate are completely indifferent to our hopes and fears.
    Yes, those “tangents” might prove linked to particles of the past, but asserting that such particles prove absolute validity of the given myth (belief) proves only what is contended by evolutionary zoology: We humans have great capacity for denial, otherwise our oversized brain would have sucked-up in anxiety all the calories we could gather.
    Get with it!

  84. San Jose Mom 51 May 28, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

    Vlad, guess you’re having a Hitleriffic day.

  85. BeingThere May 28, 2012 at 4:09 pm #

    E.
    In 1970 our high school held seminars about energy with representatives from various energy groups. One room had solar energy spokesmen and another nuclear energy. It was really amazing what foresight our principal had at that time.
    Sadly that was the right time to have galvanized research and innovation in new energy.
    To add insult to injury, Reagan cut the research on fusion which is now being done by a world consortium called Iter. We are a participating member of that research in facilities in France, but we were according to a relative of my guy(mechanical engineer), way ahead of where the research is today. I agree, I don’t know how you catch up to the lost time.
    Going back to the eternal relentless search for the unlimited growth paradigm, I listened to economists talking about even China not having the 9% growth that they need to keep going on the trajectory they have been on.
    Excuse me, but like the price of houses and the stock market, nothing keeps going up. How do you develop an economic model that doesn’t allow for the organic ebbs and flows of all things of life and matter?
    These guys never seem to notice the huge fallacy in their thinking nor will they change. There are new models being worked on but they will not be implemented on the mass scale in an acceptable way in time.
    Hence, we’ll be lucky to have a Clusterfuck Farm of our own.

  86. God May 28, 2012 at 4:45 pm #

    Anyone, politician or otherwise, who prattles on about Growth being the solution is the enemy.
    10% of current population will be about right.
    And I am working on it…

  87. Anne May 28, 2012 at 4:54 pm #

    It’s bizarre how someone who would never think to say (or at least never say publicly): “Oh, I visited this lovely plantation in Louisiana and it was so wonderful how well-run and organized it was. The darkies were all singing in the fields while they picked the cotton, and I had a mint julep on the veranda with Miss Scarlett. Wasn’t life wonderful before the Civil War ruined everything?”
    Yes, things can be well run in an authoritarian society. But they can also be repressive and horrible for many of the occupants. These are the same people who fought against women’s suffrage, and education for women, and abortion rights, among other things. Just think about how pleasant life is for women in many Muslim countries.
    Additionally, while the last period of human history has seen some upheaval and unhappy side effects as the result of changing gender roles, that does not mean that going back to traditional roles would solve all society’s ills. It only means that we have not yet worked out new and healthy arrangements.
    Moreover, with 7 billion people on the planet, doesn’t it seem that there are better things for women to do than just serve as the bearers/rearers of additional occupants for Earth? There are certain physical things that some men are better able than some women to do, and vice-versa. By and large, those things are few.

  88. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 4:56 pm #

    Excuse me? What don’t you like? Is the same as it not being true? Or is what you like the sole criterion?
    How about the fact that women, both st8 and Lez, like to go to Gay Clubs and mock the men there. How does that fit your collective self image? Don’t believe me? Ask some Gaze and find out. Perform the experiment. Look thru the telescope. Knowledge is often injunctive – you have to do in order to know.

  89. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    A few problems? Yes, like women getting away with murder. Literally in some cases. In other cases, just depriving men of access to their children and then taking every penny they earn – in some cases the man goes hungry. So what if he lost his job, why should that matter, right?
    All women? No. Supported by all women? Yes. So all women. Thus you have shown your true colors and will not get any rights next time around. You don’t deserve them. Many of us used to be Liberals, but we have grown beyond that into Wisdom.

  90. Glaucus May 28, 2012 at 5:11 pm #

    Sounds like you had a great experience, Jim. It’s always nice to get a glimpse into another culture’s world, whether it’s around the world, or in your case – around the block.
    I like to think that such improvisational cultures do provide a good example for many Americans who are currently focused on other things and preparing for a much different future.
    Still I have to wonder just how sustainable such a set-up is once the cars stop rolling as cheaply. But we’ll see. I wish them luck.
    -glaucus
    http://www.planningdown.wordpress.com

  91. Eleuthero May 28, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    BT said:
    Going back to the eternal relentless search for the unlimited growth paradigm, I listened to economists talking about even China not having the 9% growth that they need to keep going on the trajectory they have been on.
    ***************************************************************
    Did you see last week where China is now having a manufacturing CONTRACTION? It was treated as a minor news item everywhere yet only a few years ago, a Chinese slowdown from 10% to 5% growth was considered a “recession” by Chinese standards.
    China’s LITERAL manufacturing recession reveals why ECRI insists that there will be a recession later this year despite all of the lagging “blue sky” housing and consumer spending indicators. When China is having a manufacturing recession (their PMI was around 48.5, 50 being break-even), it means that the entire developed world isn’t buying.
    Despite ECRI’s perfect record of calling recessions and never having false positives or false negatives, their leader, Lakshman Achuthan, continues to get a constant ribbing on the biz channels. Sigh.
    E.

  92. Dean of Oilberta May 28, 2012 at 5:23 pm #

    Wow Those are some loonnggg comments!!
    I love the name of your farm! We jokingly call our little piece of the prarie The Clutterite Colony! All you need to join is 500 lbs of junk!

  93. Ogier de Beauseant May 28, 2012 at 5:37 pm #

    Jim has made a nice living out of spreading the word on his vision of the end times and he has collected here a pile of shit left by his followers, meaningless as is their cult leader. He will go to his grave babbling about the doom to come.

  94. BeingThere May 28, 2012 at 5:39 pm #

    E.
    There are a few economists who can think instead of parroting the accepted ideology and precepts, but by and large, the others have either garnered a reputation for the neoliberal cant and refuse to walk it back.
    That’s what’s so frustrating when you hear these guys with a vested interest speak and what they’re saying is not working right before your very eyes!
    I recently heard how college professors have gotten big money working for industry and are seen by the corporations as influentials, so they are teaching more to the corporations than an unbiased fair assessment of different theories. It doesn’t bode well for us, does it?
    Yes, they are saying that China’s economy is in trouble because we’re not buying their goods and neither is the EU, but this could also be propaganda since they have real money to buy lots of our infrastructure.
    Because they’ve made money based on real activity they have economic determinism. We shall see how this works out in the end, won’t we.
    —LB

  95. Laura Louzader May 28, 2012 at 5:53 pm #

    Most women think exactly as rationally as most men do, which is to say that most humans of either sex are stone irrational.
    I have met very few humans who can overcome their prejudices, ego needs, fears, and desire to avoid the effort of thinking well enough to make rational decisions, and I’ve sure as hell made my share of irrational choices, as, I’m sure, have you.
    But by and large, the sex that seems to need to be “controlled” the most, is male. I don’t think that HAS to be the case, but for the time being, women still exhibit more self-control across the board, even though we’re gaining ground rapidly in terms of violent crime and other irrational behaviors, unfortunately.
    Every time someone tells me how “logical” and “rational” males are relative to females, I merely point to the nearest tax-subsidized sports stadiums, where middle class moron males are swilling beer that costs $8 a cup after paying $100 for a ticket… and working themselves into cardiac arrest over the outcome of some game between two corporate teams of overpaid retard prima donna players. Listen, these men take this crap SERIOUSLY. I mean, a guy’s fave corporate team losing is enough to make the guy moody and depressed for days afterwards
    Meanwhile, his equally moronic wife is obsessed with celebrity gossip and seeing how fast she can max out the cards on this year’s ugly clothes or on a bunch of faddy household decorative items that will be in resale shops in three years. When she and her hubby participate in politics, it is to harass the owner of some struggling little concern whose line of business is “bad for the neighborhood”, while being totally supportive of yet another TIF rape of the local taxpayers for the sake of some crony developer because his new 50 story high rise condo tower or shopping plaza “brings money to the neighborhood” or because “corporations provide most of the jobs”.
    I have found that both sexes are very passive and expect their lives to be handed to them on gilt platters yet complain of the cost when they see it on, say, their property tax bills, or the steadily deteriorating civil services alongside the vast enrichment of politician’s cronies.

  96. Dan_White May 28, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

    SUYDC…
    There is nothing funnier than a bunch of guys working at something productively and then a woman pops in and tries to become part of the gang.
    Half them want to screw her, sorry Laura, it’s genes, and the other quarter resent her for slowing down and screwing up the work. The other quarter go out of their way to include her to and including not doing much more themself.
    Women think differently than men. It’s biological and can’t be helped no matter how much palavering goes on at retreats for women authors and American Studies Department meetings.
    Here ya go:
    independent.co.uk/news/science/womens-brains-uareu-different-from-mens-ndash-and-heres-scientific-pr…

  97. Dandy May 28, 2012 at 6:14 pm #

    How about the fact that women, both st8 and Lez, like to go to Gay Clubs and mock the men there.
    *********
    Vlad, I don’t know what to say to this except OH, PLEASE! Just how may Gay Clubs have YOU been to? Judging by your “Gaze” comment, I willing to bet the answer is “None.” There are very few women in Gay clubs and the one’s who are there are quite friendly. Most Lesbians get along fine with Gay men. My first hand impression is that the straight ones like hanging out in space where they don’t have to fend off the unwanted attention of sex crazed chauvinistic straight jack asses.
    As far as examples of women behaving badly goes, you can always find isolated examples of anything. Just last week, a man in my town shot his lover, her 18 month old daughter, her sister, and the sister’s fiance, before killing himself. Apparently this happened because his lover demanded that he move out of her house because he was an abusive Neo-Nazi thug (literally) who was building an arsenal in the house. Later the FBI said that they had him under surveillance for suspected domestic terrorism but hadn’t found evidence to arrest him yet. A few weeks ago a man shot his two children and himself because his wife left him, but then a women recently did the same thing. In the end, men are responsible for a large majority of murders and roughly 90% of domestic violence. Wave your Male Chauvinist flag high but don’t blame your views on the women you hate.

  98. Dan_White May 28, 2012 at 6:25 pm #

    Total agreement about this Mizzzzzz Laura.
    “Every time someone tells me how “logical” and “rational” males are relative to females, I merely point to the nearest tax-subsidized sports stadiums, where middle class moron males are swilling beer that costs $8 a cup after paying $100 for a ticket… and working themselves into cardiac arrest over the outcome of some game between two corporate teams of overpaid retard prima donna players. Listen, these men take this crap SERIOUSLY. I mean, a guy’s fave corporate team losing is enough to make the guy moody and depressed for days afterwards”
    However, the reasons society does this is to emasculate and weaken and distract these otherwise dangerous males with all this sports clutter.
    The most pathetic thing of all is when White students spend hours practicing their dribble shots, trying to do something that even uneducated Blacks in the ghetto can do well.

  99. Drew Keeling May 28, 2012 at 6:30 pm #

    Sounds to me like Jim is on to something here. A next book, maybe?

  100. Tark May 28, 2012 at 6:53 pm #

    Who said gender roles have to be obsessively rigid? But some structure and dividing up is very natural. There are some things women are simply not good at and vice-verse; it’s as simple as that. You’re just another metro-sexual.

  101. xport May 28, 2012 at 6:53 pm #

    Good post today, and very funny. America is suffering from mass psychosis and is delusional. Perhaps set up to be that way? Refer to Eric Fromm’s “sane society”.
    The religious group that you describe remind me of the Amish, perhaps the most well adapted group to survive the Long Emergency.

  102. Tark May 28, 2012 at 6:58 pm #

    God, homosexuals find their way into every website under the..artificial lighting. Lift a rock by making one mention of them and they scurry out.

  103. rapier May 28, 2012 at 7:10 pm #

    I came to the conclusion in the early 70’s that the earnest hippie commune types were way too early. Setting aside my skepticism of communal quasi families as economic units, here or perhaps anywhere in the West, I think the urge was logical for a time that was not yet here in 73. It seems that was a pretty good guess. Well we don’t know if now is the time but then wasn’t we now know.
    The peak of oil and the first oil crisis gave the outline of what was to come but then the Saudi’s had all that oil come onstream and at the time that didn’t seem to be a given. But pump pump pump they did and bailed out and then reinforced those in power in the American and dollar centric world political economy. History will look askance at that but I suppose they knew if they didn’t pump then we would have gone in and done it for them. Such would have been ugly but it would have put the cards on the table for all to see about what the American empire is all about which would have done some good.
    At any rate the time for such “cutlts” seems much more propitious now.

  104. xhalor May 28, 2012 at 7:10 pm #

    Well, it IS that day, so, I thought I better check in. OK. here’s the check list:
    ACTIVITIES
    1. Drinking.
    2. More Drinking.
    3. Flag Display
    (Not THAT Flag you faggot)
    4. Neil Young songs.
    ***Editors Note***
    Of Course this caused a racieal uprisign. But our
    meticulous (HA! spelled it right) research (BELCH) has revealed that ONCE all assembled branches are properly inebriated, Neil is OK.
    5. Maintaining CONTROL of MY computer. That’s right fuckos. (I invited MORE Marines this year)
    PRIORITIES
    1. Making sure our token “Chair Force” rep leaves here with his wallet.
    2. Reducing the number of 911 calls.
    3. what the fuck was I talking about
    MISSION STATEMENT
    Mr. Kunstler,
    Dude. You were talking about uniforms. WHAT THE FUCK!!!

  105. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 7:19 pm #

    Yes, Old’s is the ultimate paradigm they tend towards. Kill all Life. Shave the biosphere bald.
    And of course, if we don’t grow we die. As a fiat or bullshit currency, we can never meet our debts by definition. We are always living in the future and accelerating. If we catch up with ourselves, we die.
    From another angle, as one wit said, “Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

  106. Dandy May 28, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    Tark, I only replied to Vlad’s blatant misrepresentation of my community. Other than that… We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it! Bigotry only debases the bigot.

  107. Widespreadpanic7 May 28, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    Ya, Steve M, Scott walker is a real Nazi for trying to rein in the parasites in the Public Sector Unions who are bleeding the country dry. The recall isn’t working. So now the thugs at the NEA and AFSCME are claiming that dethroning Walker isn’t so important anyway. But that’s not what they were saying a year ago.
    Attended a Memorial Day event ceremony today in a small Connecticut Village that has been going on every year since 1866. The high School Band, traditionally, even plays ‘Dixie’ as a deference to the vanquished South. The whole town turns out, mostly the descendants of the Yankees who settled the place 275 years ago. Hundreds of bright faced kids running around, the blue sky, the sound of the water falling over the dam, American flags fluttering everywhere, the patriotic music, greeting old friends and relatives, steaks, burgers and Hot Dogs being grilled in every yard, the distinctly Protestant American ethos being passed down year after year … the future doesn’t look so bad after all.
    Ibendet, “Being There”, are you a Jerzy Kozinski fan? Nice choice anyay.
    –WSP7

  108. xhalor May 28, 2012 at 7:22 pm #

    Oh yeah. Before y’all start flippin’ out about the “FAGGOT” remark. I’ll ya about the time when I was some nutzo PFC and called a queer Master Sargeant a, well, a QUEER. Ever had a K-Bar knife held up against your throat? I saw the light.
    I would tell y’all about it. But you probably wouldn’t listen.

  109. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 7:29 pm #

    Well women test better on verbal and men better at math, logic, and spatial relations – the root of the STEM subjects. So under the dome of the curve, the IQ’s are almost the same. But there are far more high IQ men than women. And more idiots as well. Women are far more clustered under the dome of the bell than men are.
    Men seem to know women far more than women know men. Women are too narcicistic to get outside themselves and really look. Modern women assume men want the same things in a mate that they do – like “confidence”. We don’t want equals or business partners, we want servants/wives/sex objects.

  110. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 7:33 pm #

    And in a few more years, they’ll be hitting on the enlisted men like they did in the seminaries. You heard it here first. Vlad is usualy first and will be the last. The Alpha and the Omega like Tom Bombadil.

  111. Tark May 28, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    You should get used to the idea that there are still a lot of people who actually yearn for a little of the traditional. The world doesn’t have to roll back to the 19th century, but throwing away things that worked well and made perfect, self-evident sense, just because they’re somehow out-of-date, is harmful. Your ‘community’ is the one that will not leave that America well enough alone.
    Homosexuals by their very definition/nature can’t uphold the positive things that, used to, go with a stable family life. This isn’t based in religious belief either, but on seeing the results of tearing down all the good, usually well-functioning life-family-styles that came before.
    Beyond that, I know what feeels right and that’s good enough for me.

  112. BeantownBill May 28, 2012 at 7:39 pm #

    In my own experience, it is the men who cannot succeed in having happy man-woman relationships that seem to be the most anti-feministic.

  113. xhalor May 28, 2012 at 7:41 pm #

    “And in a few more years, they’ll be hitting on the enlisted men like they did in the seminaries.”
    ??? You know, Vlad, I try to get as high as you, but, goddammit! You are the Buddha Belt Buckle Buddy. Shut up, you Aqua Velva drinkin’ wino.

  114. xhalor May 28, 2012 at 7:44 pm #

    “Homosexuals by their very definition/nature can’t uphold the positive things that, used to, go with a stable family life.”
    Yeah.
    But that doesn’t mean you can’t count on them.

  115. Tark May 28, 2012 at 7:45 pm #

    I believe in women’s rights, but not Feminism, capital F.
    I like capable, independent, and intelligent women too, but I don’t want a woman who resents being female and has too much male…energy, for lack of a better word.
    I happen to hate golddiggers and bimbos as much as shrews. I also despise men who have to be gentlemen even when the woman is wrong. No respect for ‘gentlemen’.

  116. xhalor May 28, 2012 at 7:49 pm #

    Hank knows.
    youtube.com/watch?v=QVr0M7WCBu4

  117. Laura Louzader May 28, 2012 at 7:50 pm #

    “We don’t want equals or business partners, we want servants/wives/sex objects.”
    We women KNOW that, Impaler. We are not that effing stupid. Jesus, how we know it. Female socialization in patriarchal societies is all about killing female minds and turning us into those things. Thus, the Feminist movement which is not about enslaving men, but about freeing women up to be human. We don’t want to be servants/sex objects/baby breeders- we want men we can love and who don’t dominate us.
    We don’t want to “rule” men, we just are sick of being ruled and always have been. You can’t be a true woman in a patriarchal society any more than a man can express his masculinity in a totally female-dominated space (to the extent that there are any).
    I like men. I find them very attractive, but I completely will not abide being ruled, and neither will most women. Unfortunately, most women out here have settled for a nasty tradeoff, which is abiding patriarchy as long as they are materially “taken care of”, thus their attachment to welfare state entitlements. I’d rather make another kind of trade, which is leave me alone and don’t try to rule me or my reproductive organs, and you can take your support and welfare entitlements and shove them. I can take care of myself.
    Some people posting here have pointed out that women will have to submit to male domination in return for “protection” against the hordes of predators who will surely be roaming the country and preying on the weak and alone. I have only this to say, which is that in such a pass, we can write off about 90% of the population, which will include me. If we aren’t going to have minimal civilization, rule of law, and protection from thugs, 90% of the population will not make it, and the 10% remaining will inherit a world not worth making it in. I wish the survivors all the luck in the world, because you will need it. I’m glad I won’t be there to see it.

  118. BeingThere May 28, 2012 at 7:52 pm #

    Yeah, I do like Kosinski. I read Being There and a Painted Bird years ago.
    Love the title-

  119. Laura Louzader May 28, 2012 at 7:52 pm #

    I agree with you, Tark.
    I want a world of decent, upright, independent, thinking people of both sexes and all genders who respect each other’s rights, that simple.

  120. BeantownBill May 28, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    Concerning homosexuality, what 2 same-sex couples do in private is no one else’s business. Public displays of affection are only repulsive to sexually insecure straights who can’t help from imagining themselves doing the act with the same sex. What harm do gays really do to you personally?
    Actually, one would think homosexuality would be more acceptable in a vastly over-populated world. Many psychologists believe man is inherently bi-sexual; most animal species certainly are. Whether or not anyone is homophobic is irrelevant because homosexuality has always been around and always will be.

  121. BeantownBill May 28, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    By my lights, that is an acceptable attitude.

  122. BeantownBill May 28, 2012 at 8:07 pm #

    I never read Kosinski, but perhaps I should because I saw the movie “Being There” when it was released in 1979 and it is one of my all-time favorite movies. Like “Rhinocerous” by Eugene Ionescu and “Catch-22” by Joseph Heller, Being There perfectly illustrates the absurdity of life.

  123. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 8:19 pm #

    Apparent Zombie attack: one naked guy was eating the face of another naked guy. Perhaps they were a Gay Zombie Couple having a dispute?
    Cthulu is very close now and begining to influence people in their dreams. Or did you think the Zombie Craze was just by chance?
    news.yahoo.com/witness-says-naked-attacker-chewing-mans-face-162408953.html

  124. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 8:37 pm #

    Alot of us believed women when they said that – and got disregarded and/or dumped. We studied the conflicting data and realized that women were the last ones to understand themselves. The Mystery is solved: Hypergamy is the key to understanding women’s desires towards men. They want more, always more. More than themselves at the very least. Women hate men who have less money, prestige, or power than themselves. They don’t exist and women hate having to deal with them. So after a few years, women want to trade up – taking as much of a man’s assets as they can. Expect no feeling or compassion or even common decency from a woman who is “unhappy” or “ready to move on”. It’s your fault, all your fault – all of it. You failed her. It was your job to fufill her. And she wants payback. That’s the feminine idea of equality, Laura.
    A few women might settle for equality but it is pretty lifeless after all. Where’s the polarity? Why not just date a women if you want someone just like you? Most women want children. You are still refusing to recognzie how unusual you are. You might actually be capable of treating a man as an equal. Most women will abuse a man who isn’t above her. The price is high though from a man’s point of view: more of a friendship than a romantic sexual marriage. Polarity means excitement after all. Go visit Heartiste. He is one of the great masters of the Game and probably the leading theorist of male/female dynamics.

  125. Vlad Krandz May 28, 2012 at 8:45 pm #

    I saw a guy drinking perfume on the train once. He began to burp violently – each burp spreading the scent throuhout the car. The Black kids on the train went into paroxysms of glee. What a wonderful thing to make people so happy…
    I saw another White guy kicked out of a Wendy’s by the Black Employees. He had huge arms and his huge hand held a bottle of mouthwash. They treated that one with respect – his huge arms and hands played a part in that I think. He came back in with the bottle secreted in a coat pocket and sat down with a Black patron. The young Black reacted cautiously. An intoxicated wild man earns a certain respect no matter what color he is.

  126. Tark May 28, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

    What’s the name of that movie? In the Mouth of Madness?

  127. Nastarana May 28, 2012 at 9:14 pm #

    Vlad:
    For my part, I am not a “man”, and I, at least, have no use for the approbation of such as yourself.
    I am not a “man”. I don’t expect others to laugh at my stupid jokes nor always agree with my half-baked political opinions. If I hurt myself, I deal with the problem, and don’t go looking for sympathy. I fugure my self-esteem, or ego, is my responsibility, not everyone else’s, much less the responsibility of the opposite gender.
    I do not react with anger when asked to work with a member of the opposite gender whom I find not attractive, nor do I intrigue against people merely because I don’t want them in my near presence. Nor do I think squabbles between males are fun, and I do not try to instigate such squabbles.
    If I have cash, my kids, now grandkids, get what they need. First. Boyfriend can pay his own damn bar tab/drug bill/loan from a friend, and his Mamasita can pay off her own bills herself.
    I got kids off to school, breakfasted, homework completed and ready to turn in, clean, appropriately dressed, and myself to work, appropriately dressed, on time for many years, with no loving little person to tell me how wonderful I was. On about 1/3 of what men earn. One kid is now in college, and one is gainfully employed. If I can, you men can.
    Never mind sex object, etc. I am convinced that what men want is someone whose labor they can appropriate to their own ends. The rest is rationalization.
    Color me unimpressed with your pretensions.

  128. xhalor May 28, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    Honestly, Mr. Krandz. I’m pretty sure that you would be hard pressed to find another sentient being that gives a RAT’S ASS about your assessment about their various states of being. I’ll bet that you think you’re SPECIAL.

  129. Tark May 28, 2012 at 9:28 pm #

    “Women hate men who have less money, prestige, or power than themselves.”
    I could believe that to a degree if there weren’t so many women who at first go with, then become deeply involved with, men who are not prestigious, steady money-makers, employed, or even respectable. Those guys don’t usually have much social power. They even have children with men just like that and worse. Women love the bad boy more than the monied, power guy.
    I’m not blowing my own horn, but in my early-mid twenties I was at my peak of older female attention(in their thirties to early forties) and they knew that I was immature and had little to nothing of my own. Most of these women weren’t married either. They weren’t just looking for a little something on the side while being married to Daddy Warbucks.

  130. Dandy May 28, 2012 at 9:29 pm #

    Alot of us believed women when they said that – and got disregarded and/or dumped…. They want more, always more…. Women hate men who have less money, prestige, or power than themselves. They don’t exist and women hate having to deal with them…. Expect no feeling or compassion or even common decency from a woman who is “unhappy” or “ready to move on”. It’s your fault, all your fault – all of it. You failed her. It was your job to fufill her. And she wants payback.
    ********
    Wow, Vlad, bitter much? Maybe you have a right to be. Sounds like you’ve had some rotten relationships. Is it right to blame every woman in the world for the one(few?) who did you wrong, though?

  131. xhalor May 28, 2012 at 9:29 pm #

    “Color me unimpressed with your pretensions.”
    But, that doesn’t really answer the IMPORTANT question, does it?
    WHICH IS
    How DO you feel about bitin’ me crank, Matey?
    Yeearrgh!

  132. Jam47 May 28, 2012 at 9:30 pm #

    The posters on this blog, opinionated and well-informed bunch that you are, might care to answer a question I can’t answer myself: Is the Chinese economy going to continue flying high or is it going to splutter and crash?
    My question isn’t idle. I live in Canada, and the conservatives now in charge seem to want to turn Canada into a kind of petro-state. Ontario and its manufacturing are out; Alberta and its oil are in. The conservative government wants to extract yet more of Alberta’s oil and sell as much of it as they can to China. This move would be good for Canada as long as China’s economy continues booming. But will it?
    An answer, with a brief argument behind it, would be appreciated.

  133. helleborine May 28, 2012 at 9:54 pm #

    Are we going in the direction of homegrown economy, or further into an economy of pixels and electrons?
    Have you seen that website, Pinterest? Millions of people are “collecting” IMAGES of the cast-offs of those lawn sales. Some obsessed madams hoard images to the tune of 6 digits.
    Users of this site are consuming without the inconvenience of the actual object. Their reward is social approval for their fine taste in images.
    They spend countless hours on this “hobby” – arrogantly called “content curation.”

  134. rocco May 28, 2012 at 10:04 pm #

    usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/28/11923580-witness-to-naked-attack-the-guy-just-kept-eating-the-…
    The break down has begun, and George Romero would be proud. I was once a beliver and was active in politics, but the amount of fraud, and con men with both parties is incredible!!

  135. xhalor May 28, 2012 at 10:07 pm #

    Damn! That’s the second brilliant thing I’ve seen here today. The first was 3rd Generation’s recreation of “KunstlerSpeak”, the second was this.
    We’re all curators, aren’t we?

  136. Bustin J May 28, 2012 at 10:28 pm #

    LL Bean said “…and women were forced to live alone with the kids in leaky sod houses through both winters and summers…”
    Really, Laura? Forced?
    What was wrong with them that they did not know how to plug the leaks?
    Its too picturesque.

  137. Kyooshtik May 28, 2012 at 10:30 pm #

    Getting back to last week’s thread for a moment…
    Madcat is apparently a very sensitive Aussie so I want to apologize for calling him Asoka’s sock-puppet… ditto for Hansen. The whole thing was nothing more than a Q-spoof.

  138. xhalor May 28, 2012 at 10:37 pm #

    “What was wrong with them that they did not know how to plug the leaks?”
    Q apologising. CROOKED!
    youtube.com/watch?v=xrThyvv4sko

  139. Bustin J May 28, 2012 at 10:57 pm #

    LL Cool L said “…stability, sensibility, restraint, and wise use of power. These are traits prized by women. ”
    Stability means continuance of business as usual. Sensibility means no messy emotions or revolts. Restraint means restraining men. Wise use of power means being subservient to the slick psychopaths who have achieved it.
    What you have against these little farming communes is contrived. You don’t know these people. They’re not ‘forced’.

  140. BeantownBill May 28, 2012 at 11:09 pm #

    China’s economy will eventually fail. Its rate of economic growth is already slowing down. China’s economy depends on its exports. The rest of the world’s economies are in recession or depression and won’t be able to buy enough of China’s exports to maintain China’s growth rate. The Chinese government tries to build up markets at home, but the people are too poor.
    From my point of view, Canada doesn’t need to sell oil to China. Extracting oil in Alberta will wreck its environment, while enriching elites, not the populace. It’s a bad ide to try to emulate the United States.

  141. BeantownBill May 28, 2012 at 11:10 pm #

    Should be “it’s a bad IDEA”…

  142. Eleuthero May 28, 2012 at 11:17 pm #

    LL said:
    Most women think exactly as rationally as most men do, which is to say that most humans of either sex are stone irrational.
    ****************************************************************
    This is the proverbial “bottom line”.
    E.

  143. Doc Holliday May 28, 2012 at 11:38 pm #

    Nice piece and a break from the Doom Porn.
    But I love Doom Porn and Jim is the best.

  144. asoka. May 28, 2012 at 11:48 pm #

    China’s economy will eventually fail.
    Wow! I don’t know if you are basing that on the Chinese decline to 5% growth, but I would argue the reduction in growth rate is a sign of the health of the Chinese economy, a deliberate slowing down to prevent overheating and thereby guarantee that China’s economy will NOT fail.
    The People’s Republic of China is controlled by the communist party. Although some market reforms have been introduced in China (to suck the greedy capitalist west dry and at the same time exploit them to gain national infrastructure), it is still largely a centrally planned economy with state-owned enterprises monopolizing big industrial sectors such as energy, telecoms and banking.
    Western capitalist free market economies have shown themselves to be unstable ponzi schemes that are terminally ill. As JHK says today: we are at “Ponzi’s End.”
    Communism, as a final goal, is our only hope going forward. And please don’t confuse republican socialism like the USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) with the socialism of China led by Chinese communists.
    By using carefully controlled market reforms to milk the west, what China’s Communist Party has accomplished in the last 60 years is nothing less than remarkable. China has been reducing income inequality, and creating a middle class where there was once only overwhelming and absolute poverty.
    Between 1981 and 2005, an estimated 600 million Chinese people moved out of poverty and China’s poverty rate dropped from 85% to 15%. China has one of the highest savings rates in the world at 38%. (Compare to USA’s 4% personal savings rate.)
    While China is evolving, the West is devolving. The West has been going downhill and now faces Ponzi’s End.
    Capitalism has failed. Income inequality is now creating conditions for the collapse of western free market economies.
    By voluntarily lowering their growth rate China has made themselves more sustainable and China’s economy is now less likely to fail.

    The development and improvement of the socialist system is a long historical process. So long as the Chinese Communists uphold the basic tenets of Marxism-Leninism and follow the road suited to China’s specific conditions and chosen by the Chinese people of their own accord, the socialist cause in China will be crowned with final victory.

    — Constitution of the Chinese Communist Party

  145. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 12:01 am #

    Sorry, my previous post was a reply to BeantownBill.
    And here is some more evidence to consider:
    China lowered its growth rate because “there are some overheating in certain sectors,” and “there are some inflation pressure,” the World Bank’s Chief Economist Justin Yifu Lin said, adding that the slowdown is aimed at ensuring smooth economic growth in the long run.

  146. Eleuthero May 29, 2012 at 12:10 am #

    LL quoted Vlad’s statement that …
    “We don’t want equals or business partners, we want servants/wives/sex objects.”
    **************************************************************
    Laura,
    Just as most people of BOTH sexes are either stupid or dull as dirt, the same could be said about their mutual expectations of the opposite sex. The intelligent outliers of both sexes probably actually HATE the fixed gender models because it usually leads to the sort of boring suburban marriages that are satirized in books like “A Doll’s House” by Henrik Ibsen.
    I’m a guy who, like most humans, enjoys sex but I’m not willing to put up with the dull conversation of a “doll” just to get it. As Nietzsche once astutely pointed out, marriage, for example, is really one loooooong conversation. Sex, as a percentage of total time spent together is actually quite small.
    However, both sexes get roped in over the centuries by bonding on trivialities with tragic results. Couples will get started because they both like the Grateful Dead or they’re both hopheads or something stupid and the deeper disparities sabotage the relationship later because NEITHER side is gifted at self-knowledge or introspection.
    And it’s always been that way since way before Shakespeare.
    E.

  147. Laura Louzader May 29, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    A sod house sounds like something you can scarcely stop from leaking. It was a stopgap make-do form of shelter that barely qualified as housing.
    The native American’s teepee is a much better solution. Settlers with minimal material goods and no easy way to transport them across the undeveloped plains would have done better to imitate many of their ways.

  148. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 12:30 am #

    Leaks were definitely a problem for sod houses, but teepees would not necessarily be a better shelter, especially against prairie fires.
    If it was windy, prairie fires spread quickly and were almost impossible to put out. One fire could sweep through hundreds of miles of grasslands, often moving faster than a running horse. Teepees would provide no protection.
    Sod houses were lifesaving protection against fires. Inside a sod house was safe. (An adobe house with waterproof plaster coating would have been best.) Dirt does NOT burn.

  149. Laura Louzader May 29, 2012 at 12:34 am #

    On another subject on this thread, China’s economy is already failing badly, and it’s super-high “growth” rate is just its debt-creation rate.
    An economy based on fake money lent to build evermore empty apartment blocks and entire empty cities, is doomed even if China’s customers could resume their own debt-fueled consumption at the level required to “pay” for all those cookie cutter condo blocks that are so badly built that one of them literally fell over on its side.

  150. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 12:51 am #

    Even the enthusiastic shopper Ms Tang and her husband squirrel away more than half of their joint income of around Rmb10,000 a month, they say, for a home of their own, a nicer car and a hoped-for baby. “Chinese love to save money,” says Mr Wang.

    How many Americans save more than half their income?
    I don’t think China’s economy is “failing badly” … according to the national economic indicators and the national savings rate.
    China is bringing its population out of poverty while western free market economies are seeing more people slipping out of the middle class and into poverty.

  151. laceration May 29, 2012 at 12:56 am #

    There are groups of Christians, getting out of the matrix, living self sufficiently and seeking to create their lives outside of the sins of this wayward modern world. Like JHK, I feel like I have more in common with them than all the liberal people still attached to their progressive ideals. Yet I have lost my religion and I am alienated from any type of community or capacity to believe. Also came upon this today, a story about Jesus of Siberia. An idyllic community, no cars or roads or suburbs, yet they were all followers.
    youtube.com/watch?v=W2Cv5hZfOmk

  152. xhalor May 29, 2012 at 1:18 am #

    “…deeper disparities sabotage the relationship later because NEITHER side is gifted at self-knowledge or introspection.”
    I had a six year marriage that was based on our mutual love of Saran Wrap. The sad truth is that it ended because we ran out of money for Saran Wrap.

  153. Kyooshtik May 29, 2012 at 1:31 am #

    Also came upon this today, a story about Jesus of Siberia.
    ============
    Davidor Kureshov

  154. Mrs. Soake May 29, 2012 at 1:32 am #

    Hug a vet or two for all of us this week, Soake.
    Thanks.

  155. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 1:33 am #

    Small groups seeking safe haven from a disintegrating free market Ponzi-scheme economy will probably not scale. Communist China does scale.
    China’s GDP per capita: 500% increase
    2000 China US$800
    2010 China US$4,000 (500% increase over 2000)
    China’s progress lifted all boats, to the benefit of all.
    USA’s GDP per capita: 134% increase
    2000 USA US$35,082
    2010 China US$47,153 (134% increase over 2000)
    Communist Party-run China is about four times better than the USA economy, in terms of GDP per capita.

  156. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 1:35 am #

    I will first stand at attention and salute them smartly. Then I will say, “Thank you for your service.” Then, if their body language allows, I will give them a hug. Happy now?

  157. 9w8c8e287wf May 29, 2012 at 1:46 am #

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  158. Laura Louzader May 29, 2012 at 1:52 am #

    Asoka, while Chinese citizens are saving at a higher rate and therefore not “consuming”, their government is using the usual Keynesian “stimulation”, i.e. asset inflation, currency inflation, and debt creation, to spur “growth”, and is thereby creating inflationary pressures. As you can see from the fantastic savings rate of Chinese citizens, most are not spending one drop of money more than they can get by with to put food in their mouths and stay housed. Meanwhile, the unbelievably overpriced (in relation to incomes of prospective buyers)condos, which are raw concrete boxes with the plumbing “roughed in”, sit empty- how can people who make $20K a year afford $200K apartments that need another $100K in buildout?
    The country’s leaders are trying to stimulate demand for loans by planning more massive infrastructure projects, like a new mega-dam being planned that is twice the size of the massive Three Gorges. Meanwhile, demand for Chinese exports is falling, and that’s what underwrites it all.
    I’ll say only this, that the savings rate makes the population a lot more resilient in the face of economic contraction than people like Americans who spend to the max of their borrowing power and live always one paycheck away from falling through the floor. But that doesn’t mean the Chinese economy is healthy.

  159. pandatour May 29, 2012 at 1:52 am #

    1. Xiamen University,Beijing tour packages

    Xiamen University in the south of Xiamen Island, Fujian Province is famous for its scenic campus. Located at the foot of mountains and facing the ocean, the campus is covered with green grass and flowers. It helps students relax with the picturesque scenery and parks. [Globaltimes.cn]

  160. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 3:11 am #

    Laura, you say China is using “debt creation, to spur “growth” through Keynesian “stimulation” “thereby creating inflationary pressures.”
    Actually, I think you are exaggerating a bit. The inflation rate in China was recorded at 3.4% in April of 2012. Historically, from 1994 until 2012, the Chinese inflation rate averaged 4.3% so I’m not seeing any hyperinflation due to Keynesian “stimulation.”
    Remember also that banks are largely state-owned. Government can fix interest rates. This may not be the most efficient, but does promote the stability of the system. China’s economy is stable, and their intentional lowering of the growth rate will keep it stable.
    Your fears about inflation as a result of “Keynesian stimulation” appear to bit overblown.
    Urban property prices in China may well be inflated. Price to income ratios suggest that they are. However, the Chinese have a lot of personal savings and a survey of all Chinese cities determined that 40 percent of home purchases were for investment, not residency by the buyer.
    However, we are not looking at a “Ponzi’s End situation in China. There isn’t a real estate bubble about to burst. Why? Because half of China’s population lives in rural areas, not cities.
    About half of China’s population are farmers who won’t be looking to buy US$200,000 condos. Compare to the USA having 2% living on farms.
    Even if we look only at urban areas, for high condo prices to constitute a bubble, they must be able to burst. In the case of China, it is not clear that they have, nor where a trigger might come from.
    Another reason we are not looking at a “Ponzi’s End” situation in China is that China also has a low level of public debt and the prospect of China falling victim to an American or European style public debt crisis is remote.
    So, no runaway inflation, no large public debt, large rural population, no real estate bubble about to burst, an economy that has been the engine of world economic growth, and government control to guarantee stability.
    What’s not to like? Kind of destroys the libertarian free market, laissez-faire, Ayn Rand or Friedrich Hayek Austrian-school economic theories.
    China’s communist-government-run economy, not the USA free market capitalist economy, is the engine of world economy.
    The USA is facing “Ponzi’s End” as JHK notes this week.
    The Chinese Communist Party-run economy is not.

  161. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 3:36 am #

    Sometimes women go for the bad boy – a primitive type of alpha. Or sometimes a women will marry a good provider and then sneak off with one of these on the side. The best of both worlds. An amazing number of children are not from women’s husbands.
    Your case is outside the main frame and sounds like the Cougar phenomena in which an older women tries to regain her yourth by going with much younger men. I’d still say hypergamy is the main thing, but this does occur in a minority of women. We call it the “Wylie Coyote” moment when a women realizes that her sexual market value and marriage market value is begining to plummet due to the onset of middle age. Most women will realize the danger and intensify the quest for a husband. Others, a little older and perhaps already having been divorced, will seek a younger man for ego gratification during the crisis.

  162. charlie - uk May 29, 2012 at 3:37 am #

    I’m worried JHK, your not being converted are you ?. I have this inbuilt dread of religion based societies, no matter how worthy or happy. I would hope that we can instigate the kind of small scale self supporting communities like you describe without the need for religion. It is upon this kind of small scale re-generation that our future as a society depends. It would be a shame if we allowed ourselves to become sidetracked into religion & cultism as an alternative to decent progressive values…

  163. lsjogren May 29, 2012 at 3:38 am #

    Gotta take issue with Asoka’s dig at how badly “free market” economies are doing.
    A large share of the dsyfunction of western nations today revolves around their financial systems. These are not free market systems. Sure you have big powerful private banks, in a symbiotic relationship with governments and quasi-governmental central banks. There is so much centralized control of the financial system that it doesn’t even qualify as a decent parody of a free market system.
    I am not a believer in free markets being the answer to all economic woes. They aren’t an effective prescription for dealing with Peak Oil, for one example.
    So in my view the Libertarians are clearly wrong that free markets are the answer to everything.
    Would a free market financial system be a better one than the centrally-controlled one we currently operate under? Who knows. What is obvious, however, to anyone who has given it even a cursory look, not under the influence of Kool Aid, that what we have now is not one.
    By the way, I would have to say Laura seems to me far and away the most rational poster on this thread.

  164. Laura Louzader May 29, 2012 at 3:48 am #

    Asoka, you don’t seem to realize that the Chinese picture has changed in the past ten years as the country tries to buy into the Western lifestyle.
    wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120415000022&cid=1203&MainCatID=12
    Charlie-uk, frightened people with Luddite leanings and yearning for “simpler” times are very vulnerable to the attractions of religious cults, especially when their societies are going through major economic dislocations. Cults are very adroit at exploiting loneliness, fear, and the desire for an elevated social status that is out of reach for even most wealthy people in a large, complex society. Therefore, I believe Kunstler is very vulnerable to the call of a cult with the trappings of the authoritarian, religioun based societies of “simpler” times.

  165. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 4:10 am #

    Laura, you don’t seem to realize that the Chinese picture has changed FOR THE BETTER in the past ten weeks with regard to both inflation and public debt.

    China’s moderating inflation rate bodes well for its sovereign credit rating in spite of uncertainty about the impact of deepening economic stresses emanating from Europe, Moody’s Investors Service said on Monday.

    Easing price pressures were probably the most significant development for the Chinese economy since Moody’s issued its last formal credit analysis of the country’s finances on April 26, said Thomas Byrne, Singapore-based senior vice president and regional credit officer in the firm’s sovereign risk group.

    “Inflation has come down. That’s a definite positive … “That’s probably the biggest change to the positive.”
    Moody’s last month confirmed China’s A3 sovereign rating and said the outlook for it remained positive, supported by favourable medium-term growth prospects and strong government debt dynamics, adding that trade and financial exposures to problems in the euro zone were moderate to low.
    Byrne said China’s ratio of debt to GDP, including local government debt that is the direct responsibility of the central government, is about 33%, with maybe another 8% of GDP in contingent liabilities. That is low by global standards.
    He said strong growth dynamics with relatively low inflation gave China a very strong credit profile from a pure economics point of view and was largely the reason why Moody’s maintained a positive outlook on its rating.
    The outlook for the rating has been positive since November 2010. A positive outlook broadly implies that the next ratings action is likely to be an upgrade…
    SOURCE:
    Easing inflation a positive for China rating: Moody’s
    Easing price pressures were probably the most significant development for the Chinese economy
    Reuters / Beijing May 28, 2012, 15:55 IST

  166. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 4:35 am #

    Anticipating those who will say the Moody’s ratings are not reliable… “look at 2008!”
    Yes, look at 2008. After that Moody’s reputation was on the line, so they have tightened things up considerably.
    JHK’s post this week is titled PONZI’S END and that refers to European as well as American economies.
    Just for those who think Moody’s does not tell it like it is, look at the recent (Feb. 2012) ratings for Europe.
    Moody’s actions can be summarized as follows:
    – Austria: outlook on Aaa rating changed to negative
    – France: outlook on Aaa rating changed to negative
    – Italy: downgraded to A3 from A2, negative outlook
    – Malta: downgraded to A3 from A2, negative outlook
    – Portugal: downgraded to Ba3 from Ba2, negative outlook
    – Slovakia: downgraded to A2 from A1, negative outlook
    – Slovenia: downgraded to A2 from A1, negative outlook
    – Spain: downgraded to A3 from A1, negative outlook
    – United Kingdom: outlook on Aaa rating changed to negative
    No sugar coating by Moody’s. Just recognition of reality.
    And Moody’s recognizes China’s positive reality even in light of the Euro-crisis, even in the area of exports to EU.
    The first four months of 2012 saw Chinese exports grow 6.9% on the previous year, while imports grew 5.1% … in other words, a POSITIVE TRADE BALANCE.
    Compare that with the United States trade with the European Union in 2012 (in millions of dollars):
    Exports: 68,729.4
    Imports: 92,946.7
    -24,217.3 A NEGATIVE TRADE BALANCE
    SOURCE: US Dept. of Commerce
    Doomers and non-communists try to paint China’s economy in a negative light, and fail to recognize communist-party-controlled China’s relative economic health compared to American or European capitalist economies.

  167. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 4:40 am #

    CORRECTION
    Doomers and non-communists try to paint China’s economy in a negative light, and fail to recognize communist-party-controlled China’s relative economic health compared to American or European capitalist economies.
    CAPITALIST ECONOMIES ARE FACING “PONZI’S END”
    COMMUNIST-PARTY-CONTROLLED CHINA IS NOT.

  168. 8man May 29, 2012 at 4:42 am #

    “how can people who make $20K a year afford $200K apartments that need another $100K in buildout? ”
    Sounds like the situation most of the middle class of the EU, JAPAN and a good part of the USA find themselves in doesn’t it ? 20,000 dollars a year income, 200,000 dollars to buy a home or 1,000 dollars a month to rent. But if you go to Madrid or London or Rome, you are at about 300,000 dollars to buy a puny home and 2,000 dollars a month to rent. I think the situation in Tokyo and Moscow is even worse, but we all know that Real Estate and Property have become a great weapon to beat up people who have less income, a great way to distribute wealth from the poorer people to the richer, and also to let banks make a huge amount of money by forcing people to pay interests on large loans taken out to pay for high home prices and such.
    “Therefore, I believe Kunstler is very vulnerable to the call of a cult with the trappings of the authoritarian, religioun based societies of “simpler” times. ”
    He is already inside a religious CULT: the Green, Tree Hugging, Environmentalist, Love Nature and Kill Consumerism cult that has infected most of the Western World. We have been living, starting from the 1960s on, a huge Nature Loving, Plastic and industry hating, Future and Science and Technology hating Religion and Ideology that wants the USA, EU and JAPAN to go back to a fairy tale past of living poor and with no creature comforts and such. Well, I hate that religion, it is killing our economy and the future, we should be doing the exact opposite: building trillions of Skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, Highways, Nuclear Power Plants by the trillions, changing our Brain Style etc. etc. We need huge consumerism, we need to hate nature and simply use it as a tool for our purposes, be a Pig, be Greedy, show Nature that you are the Boss, beat it up like it deserves to be, we didn’t choose this “Nature” or Matter to develop like this, some random blind forces of Natural Evolution gave us this quirky flukey design of carbon based material that has no higher status or value or metaphysical worth than any other material: just look at the planet Mars and how empty it is, a whole lot of Nothing, just the way I like it, it is bare, no Nature there, only Dead Rocks, the way Nature should really be, Dead, Empty, with No meanings or designs, especially no pain/pleasure circuits, or look at the center of Stars, what most of the material of the universe is organized as: a plasma of high energy particles, it is not a solid of liquid or gas, but a fourth state of Matter that we cannot relate to in any possible way, so cool, that is the way I like it, kill this Carbon Based world that sucks so much, etc.
    On the Chinese Housing Bubble. Well they are building the homes as an “Investment”, so they expect to be able to sell it to someone in the future at a “Higher Price”: good luck with that, that didn’t work out too well in the USA or Spain or JAPAN (that popped their bubble 20 years ago and still can’t recover, go figure).
    But it is the entire idea of “Investment” that is flawed, the idea of finding something stable, something secure, something sure etc. But nothing will ever be sure, security doesn’t exist, nothing is an Investment really, it all depends on random forces and circumstances that occur for any old reason, so no matter how hard you try to create “security” to “protect your money”, it will never be guaranteed, it can all fade away in a jiffy: you just need a war, an earthquake, an economic crisis and anything else. Housing and Real Estate is NOT AN INVESTMENT, and in the end neither is Cash, or Gold or Diamonds or anything else, it is all an Illusion, a false hope that things will be stable, a search for “Security” when security will never exist as life is defined exactly by all of its surprises and deep intrinsic, structural insecurities: but life is all about unstable and surprises, nay, the economy itself must constantly be unstable and changing and constantly killing all investments and certainty to function at all, since the economy is a fight and constant game changing hand of poker, since that is what creates the engine of economic activity, along with Inequality and all kinds of games with a Winner and a Loser, etc.
    Anyways, the entire idea of “Investment” should be hosed, there is nothing worth investing in anymore, just invest in huge Consumption and trillions of empty Skyscrapers and trillions of Rockets to Mars and such.
    On China:
    ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=175880
    “I was looking at some of China on google maps and photos and such. It is “beyond pale”, as someone said, they are really building like there is only tomorrow! You can estimate how much excess real estate inventory they already have by a simple thought experiment: the USA has 300 million people, so just imagine to add four extra floors to all homes in the USA to host 1.5 billion. Now look at their towns and cities, most of their buildings have 4 or more floors, but also thousands upon thousands of various high rises, no way they can pull off the excuse of “population”, it just doesn’t hold, they simply have huge excess capacity with no end in sight.”
    and
    “Maybe the Chinese government should start paying itself some serious property tax, can you imagine how much cash they could obtain by printing it and giving it to themselves in the form of property taxes and then flooding the world with their cash ? ”
    THE APE JOB

  169. 8man May 29, 2012 at 4:47 am #

    Or look at the center of Stars, what most of the material of the universe is organized as: a plasma of high energy particles, it is not a solid or a liquid or a gas, but a fourth state of Matter that we cannot relate to in any possible way, so cool, that is the way I like it, kill this Carbon Based world that sucks so much, etc.
    Also from:
    ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=175880
    “I can’t stand these Greens and Environmentalists and scaredy cats all afraid of manipulating the living daylights out of Nature, always finding something poisonous and bad in every process, you can’t build atomic energy reactors, you can’t build high speed trains, you can’t do this or that and this or that. What c*cks! all in the name of Nature, this phony “False Religion” if I ever saw one (give us back the Catholics and the old Christ, or even the old Christian Fundamentalists with their hell and punishment and all, but please don’t introduce yet another fake religion, another belief system, another set of crappy values). It is their fault we have the economic crisis, we should consume and build like there is no tomorrow, we should build trillions of Skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, trillions of Malls, buy and throw away like crazy, every 3 years change all furniture and cars, wild crazy consumption, and hose nature, use nature until it no longer exists, since then we will use Mars, and the Sun itself, go on, do it, you can do it, go on.”
    THE EIGHT MAN

  170. bubbleheadMarc May 29, 2012 at 7:34 am #

    As usual an excellent post which stands head and shoulders above the vacuous prattle which typicaly surrounds your posts. The truth is what it is and there can be no compromise with it when engaged in describing reality unvarnished. As Hobbes put it: for the mass of humanity life is “nasty, short, and brutish” [I paraphrase, not having consulted Bartlett’s].

  171. 8man May 29, 2012 at 7:57 am #

    People Suck
    It is not intrinsic to housing or real estate to be such a pain in the a*s, housing can and should cost very little, even right in the middle of Manhattan, Tokyo, Paris, Madrid, Rome (no more than 50,000 dollars for a three bedroom house should be the Real Scientific Cost of most houses there) etc. It is people that suck, not houses, people that need to make cash, ever more cash from property, people suck not property, people with all of their contention, conflicts, bickering and fighting, the “Market” and such BS. Especially since we now live in an Excess Capacity Infinite Resource Technological Economy that can deliver all basic goods to all for Free, etc. But the economy, but especially this old fashioned Stone Age Man Brain needs the fight, the conflict, the contrast, the inequality, the winner or loser game, the bickering to distribute wealth, to find out “who deserves more and who doesn’t” (which then all boils down to who is the stronger puncher, or who can brainwash who on any BS conceivable, or who has the better personality or “People Skills”, “Soft Skills” which really means, who is the better BS artist, etc).
    But the economy needs exchanges in order to operate, and exchanges imply someone who has something that someone else needs, but if those that have the goods, like property cannot exchange it for anything valuable the poor average turds can exchange, the prices of those properties go sky high: and this is because most people don’t have anything of any value to exchange, are useless turds, are a big fat ZERO, and nothing and no one can do anything about it since especially all labor has been automated and optimized away and that little labor left to exchange, that is not slave factories in India, is reserved to very few top notch players, or especially the few that have “the right contacts” and the right “status level” accordingly, since it is all about status today, all about the haves keeping what they have and the have nots remaining without, etc.
    Therefore wee need Free Salaries to all worldwide, Cheap Rents and huge public private projects hiring trillions of people to build those trillions of things I always talk about, like a drone, like a cry baby, like an APE JOB, trillions of Cadillacs and Rockets and BUSes etc.
    And we need more work like a hole in the head, we need most people idle watching TV all day long, the greatest invention of all time since TV is an automatic life, you don’t need anything more but to watch TV forever and enjoy. If you want to work, you can work for free in a hobby factory building Skyscrapers, Rockets and Cadillacs (maybe for an hour or three hours a day, you choose, etc.).
    TOBOR THE APE JOB

  172. Madcat May 29, 2012 at 8:06 am #

    Q, appreciated.
    I’m not so much sensitive as I am a person who believes in truth and old school values. If I am misrepresented by someone and the perpetrator comes to realise that, I simply expect acknowledgement of the error, spoof or whatever it was supposed to be so we can move on without (for example) half of the site labouring under the impression that anything I say can be disregarded because I am simply somebody else in disguise. Thank you for giving my identity back.

  173. 8man May 29, 2012 at 8:36 am #

    From:
    ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=179196
    But, but, but …. So let’s put this thing up on two feet. Here’s the deal:
    Are the laws of physics invariant for all possible Observers ? If you have Observer1 O1 and Observer2 O2, are the laws of physics the same for both of them such that:
    L = f1(O1) = f2(O2)
    where L is an invariant form of the Laws of Physics in all possible reference systems according to all possible Observers ( all possible Information Processing Networks in newly designed Brains, all possible Processors), f1 is a particular function relative to the particular design of the particular Observer O1 and f2 is another specific function relative to the specific design of Observer2 O2 such that they transform the expression of all of the invariant repetitive laws discovered in one reference system O1 into the equivalent, but one to one association expression of the corresponding invariant repetitive laws discovered on behalf of Observer2 ?
    Does L and f1 and f2 exist for all possible Observers ? And if so, does it even matter ? It matters to us because we like to discover mathematical relationships valid in all possible situations (aka reference systems), but in the end what counts is the Experience the Observer undergoes in his world, and that is his reality and his universe and his laws of physics.
    On the one hand, I doubt that L, f1 and f2 can exist given how radically different an Observer (a Processor) design can be, aside from the fact that you can hard wire Observers so that they can never discover their underlying laws or any laws, or you can hard wire an Observer – Processor to perceive any wild and random laws as far out and detached and unrelated to our laws (or other laws of physics existing for any other observers – processors) as possible, or hard wire an observer so that it always only Lies to itself and falsifies (simulates ?) all reality.
    On the other hand, no matter how hard we try, we are always seeing everything through our reference system, our logic and our laws of physics, we are chained into a fixed f1 and O1 so to say and cannot say anything at all about f2 and O2, or something like that. And even if we can see some of what O2 sees, and even if we mix O1 and O2, and even anything else, no matter how hard we try, we can never be all possible Observers, and see things through all possible Observers, we will always format everything automatically according to what we already know, to some kind of fixed but arbitrary logic and processing machine, etc. We are trapped in our reference system no matter how hard we try to escape it and see beyond it and see a number of distinct reference systems from a more general reference system, from the outside looking in so to say, but we are never outside, we are always inside since we are trapped into some very simple laws from the outset like the Identity Principle and the Principles of Non Contradiction and such (and Space and Time and Extension references and so on).
    So the only solution is to simply crack open skulls, crack open your own skull and pour wild stuff in it, design crazy circuits and contraptions and stick it in you skull, Jethro Skull, go for it man, or simply assign the V8 Engine as a new Man Brain and Observe what it is observing from the outside, imagine how the world appears to that engine and such, be crazy, be wild, party on folks, party on….
    TOBOR THE EIGHTH MAN

  174. Nastarana May 29, 2012 at 9:36 am #

    Re “crisis” of aproaching middle age.
    Then there are those of us who view middle age with relief.
    No more have to wear the latest fashions/makeup/hair styling to enhance his prestige. No more stupid social events at which attendance is mandatory. No more conspicuous consumption on things like fancy lawn and large vehicles.
    Eat what and when you like, turn off the boob tube, listen to classical music (or jazz, or sitar). Grow a garden free of pesticides and noisy power equipment, have uninterupted hours of time for walks, do it yourself projects, reading books.
    I hate to be the one who has to break the news that not everyone is obsessed with sex, status, power and cash.
    The fact that thisgs are likely to get very bad tomorrow, next year or a decade from now, gives me all the more reason to enjoy a modest and peaceful lifestyle now. And guys like you thought that after poisoning the public space for decades with your rhetoric, women would all be desperately looking for male protection.
    Order will eventually be restored. It always is. Man is a social animal who will not and cannot tolerate anarchy for long.

  175. orbit7er May 29, 2012 at 9:45 am #

    Adapting to the Great Contraction, golf courses going bankrupt but some being bought and managed by working members!:
    nytimes.com/2012/05/27/sports/golf/members-dig-in-to-preserve
    With dozens of golf courses closing nationwide because of failed real estate developments, the Timberlake club is an example of a new model in the industry. Rather than watch home values plummet as a lush golf course is abandoned, nearby residents are banding together to buy the course — even if it means running it themselves.
    In the wealthiest communities, this process often means that 10 or 20 of the most affluent member-residents write checks to save the course. In the case of another South Carolina golf community 35 miles from Timberlake, the WildeWood and Woodcreek clubs in Columbia, 574 members contributed an average of $4,700 to execute the purchase. Then scores of those members took on administrative duties that became like part-time jobs.
    Another interesting fact from the article:
    …22 courses in the once-booming golf haven of Myrtle Beach have all but vanished in the last decade, with young trees sprouting through the old greens.
    So much for the “leisure class” in retirement….

  176. SeaYoung May 29, 2012 at 10:00 am #

    It’s right there on the surface for all to see, and we cannot. You were able to paint the vivid picture that explains bullying, obesity, Ritalin, juvenile diabetes in less than a sentence. Mr. Kunstler, you are a master at turning a word.
    “…juvenile disempowerment palliated with manufactured video power fantasies and endless snacks.”
    Hats off…

  177. JonathanSS May 29, 2012 at 10:21 am #

    I am not a believer in free markets being the answer to all economic woes. They aren’t an effective prescription for dealing with Peak Oil, for one example

    Agreed. But, our gov’t goes the wrong way in an attempt to encourage economic growth. They give subsidies to Big Oil and Coal & allow fracking and mountain top removal. At the same time, taxpayers are forced to deal with the aftermath, in most cases.
    A more enlightened market approach would be to reapportion taxes from productive activities involved with earnings (income & payroll, for example), to societal cost taxes. A current method is “Sin Taxes” on tobacco and alcohol.
    For our energy we could tax based upon:
    *environmental damage.
    *productivity lost due to gridlock.
    *health costs due to air, water pollution, etc.
    *indirect military costs.
    *road maintenance.
    This approach would encourage conservation and make renewable energy sources more competitive.

  178. Laura Louzader May 29, 2012 at 10:27 am #

    Love your post, Nastarana
    The only bad things about middle age are the difficulty of maintaining my weight at the correct level, and the difficulty of getting a job or/and getting promoted.
    Other than that, it’s great. When I was a young woman, I dreaded the future loss of my “marketability” and looks. But once I was into middle age, things really didn’t change much.. or rather, I didn’t care as much about the stuff that obsessed me as a youngster. My sex life is just as good, even better, because I’m not so obsessed with it, or with how I look or with staying “in style”. Menopause was a non-event- the cycle just faded away and I hardly noticed.
    I no longer feel like I’m missing out on life by not being out every other night, or not being able to spend endlessly on the latest clothes. I am more orderly and better organized, plan better, spend far less money and get much more for it, and care less what people think of me.
    It’s nice. My mother says the same thing, and my grandmother also did. I didn’t believe them till I got there myself.

  179. dale May 29, 2012 at 10:40 am #

    Body’s fine, although I went through more challenges than you need to hear about. Working about half time as a business writer lately, weird…..best gig I’ve ever had in many ways. No stress, no corporate bullshit, and it pays pretty decent on top of it all. Maybe I’ll even be able to pay off these absurd medical bills….but don’t get me started.
    Spiritually, I find it more and more difficult to be bothered with the broader ‘reality’ around me, as with FMW, it seems increasingly remote and vitality sapping. All of the various dualistic political and social posturing seems detached from any thing meaningful, only fodder for much ironic humor. It’s amusing to be at gatherings where the various sides look perplexed, unable to find a comfortable pigeonhole to place me in.
    I see you are still wasting a fine inquiring mind, and a lot of energy, spinning your wheels with all the racist/sexist claptrap. Let it go man, it isn’t worthy of you. Besides, I get the impression you know it’s bullshit in the deeper sense. Maybe you should adopt Yeshe Tsogyel as your yidim, or spiritual consort…. you know…. get in touch with your ‘feminine side’ and all of that.
    Still ensconced in the single wide with your bossy female kitty cats, I presume?

  180. dale May 29, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    Is it just a coincidence that “bullying” only became such a major social issue after the generational wave of “self-esteem”, or am I reading too much into these ‘great’ issues of our times.

  181. dale May 29, 2012 at 10:50 am #

    Yeah….that decline in the golf thing is a sign of the times. I always said I would never be old enough to play golf. Pretty soon maybe buying titanium golf clubs at garage sales and melting them down for the metal will become a cottage industry.
    I’m forecasting the same thing for skiing, last time I was at Sun Valley the average age in the lodge must have been in the high 50’s. No wonder, with $95 a day lift tickets.

  182. charliefoxtrot May 29, 2012 at 11:27 am #

    …funny, i ve been here for about six years, and looking back, i can see that there has been a marked rise in yard sales- i hadn t made the connection to the state of our “economy”, but it becomes evident in retrospect…

  183. Jay Schiavone May 29, 2012 at 11:28 am #

    It’s disheartening to come to this blog in anticipation of a modest portion of insight into economic trends that most other commentators fail to observe and then to be broadsided by Kunstler’s hysteria over women, the gays, young black men, etc. He appears to present Enlightenment thinking, and shortly works in his retrograde Evangelical-quality intolerance. Very much reminds me of Ron Paul, the only politician who points out illegal behavior by our highest officials and then goes on to rant and rave over the unConstitutionality of civil rights for blacks. Principle becomes a front for bigotry.
    Kunstler is 3 times divorced, so we can guess why his text has the odor of misogyny; but why the antipathy toward gays and blacks? I’d hate to think of what they did to him. Sounds like he hates to think about it, too.

  184. Jay Schiavone May 29, 2012 at 11:32 am #

    “Is it just a coincidence that ‘bullying’ only became such a major social issue after the generational wave of ‘self-esteem’, or am I reading too much into these ‘great’ issues of our times[?]”
    No, you’re wallowing in resentment. Turn on The O’Reilly Factor.

  185. Rhino May 29, 2012 at 11:36 am #

    The communists were despots that murdered millions ie the Ukrainian genocide, the so called Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot’s depravities.
    And let’s not forget the imprisonment of millions more, the suffocation and immiserization of Eastern Europe under Stalin’s (and his successors’) boot. Remember the Stasi?
    So what are you saying? That those two little twinks – Hillary and Obama – are in any way comparable with those animals – Mao and Stalin and Pol Pot? I really don’t think so.
    Aren’t there any immigrants in your neck of the woods from Russia or Eastern Europe or China or Vietnam? I’ve run into quite a few. Some were able to get out before the fall of the Iron Curtain and some after. Some were able to get out of China, some were Vietnamese boat people. And none were shy about telling their stories. Eyewitnesses to history Vlad, their accounts are highly illuminating.
    I can tell you that most people in North America and Western Europe live in la-la land, they are blissfully ignorant of what went on and what still goes on.

  186. bossier22 May 29, 2012 at 11:41 am #

    When I saw Biily Jack as a kid I thought it was great. When I saw it as an adult I laughed out loud.

  187. tegmark May 29, 2012 at 12:01 pm #

    Who is going to write the equation L = f1(O1) = f2(O2) ? Who is, what is the Ultimate Brain Design that can see what all possible brain designs have in common ? So if the Absolute Processor, Absolute Observer Oa can write the equation, then the equation is valid also for itself hence L = fa(Oa), but then that means all Brain designs are equivalent, they are all just the same Processor. But then that would mean something similar to a baby being equivalent to an adult (or a rock being equivalent to you, since all items are possible Brain designs, as in Brainium), they know the same thing, and then to verify the equation, you would need a different Processor from Oa, an Oc to confirm the truth Oa finds, the equation Oa finds. But then Observer Oa and Observer Oc (confirmer) would have to live in some kind of Same Reference System, same Universe with the same Laws of Physics and such, demonstrating the equation even before knowing the Observers and such. And then if you choose a Rock as a random new Brain Design and random Observer, that Rock would have to communicate to you that the Absolute Observer is right, or would have to send some information to confirm this, but a Rock cannot talk and such.
    The observer writing and confirming the equation would have to be some kind of superset of all possible observers and live in some kind of superset of all possible universes and so on. Of course the universe is a function of the observer (once an observer, for example a Man Brain with eyes and touch and sound and logic decoding the world according to space and time is designed and invented, the universe where that observer can live and interact is also defined, one implies the other, etc.), so once an observer is established, so is his universe and such, but then it can never be a superset of all universes and observers it will always fall back into just another distinct random observer, maybe having many properties and looking like a superset, but effectively being only just another plain observer, etc.
    And then you can always assign an Observer O3 that wants to contradict or lie or simply doesn’t want to abide to the equation, who is going to tell that Observer that Oa is correct, and what does the rebel Observer even care about Oa, he can dismiss Oa as being nothing at all and such.
    But then by the same reasoning, you can assign an Absolute Observer where the equation is true and another Absolute Observer where the equation is false and so on and this can justify inventing anything at all, any truth at all since you can assign the rules of verification in any way you want, you can invent all and assign all True or False or Anything else and so on and such. You can also define and assign yourself as the Absolute Observer deciding all, just like I like to do, just like the APE JOB does, and wait for the rock to contradict you or wait for another Observer to contradict you, but then the other observer would have to speak your language and decode the world according to how you decode it, but then it wouldn’t be a very different observer from you, so you can always assign an observer that can’t contradict you (or can contradict you, according to what you want to demonstrate), or you can always say the rock is the Absolute Observer, etc.
    Hence this is the End of Science, as soon as you start changing the brain, you enter new worlds where Science is no longer operating.

  188. newworld May 29, 2012 at 12:37 pm #

    What JHK describes can also be viewed in the movie “District 9”, a people without leadership and utterly destitute.
    And Jim let me be blunt, you and the Michael Medveds of America and your gentle scolding cannot be the leadership that whites need. I’m sure the types like you and Mike make great neighbors, but behind you fine folk stand the Alan Dershowitzs and Bill Kristols and these are not nice people who inspire trust.

  189. Tark May 29, 2012 at 12:38 pm #

    No, bullying wasn’t paid nearly as much attention until homosexuals were being bullied; then all of a sudden it was an important cause. Other kids who were bullied didn’t matter as much as the Precious.

  190. Dasviking May 29, 2012 at 12:46 pm #

    Great deals on 2013 Mayan calenders….going fast….www.calenders.com

  191. jerry May 29, 2012 at 1:07 pm #

    James, you never defined what made them a cult as opposed to a commune? As you know, Kibbutz have existed in Israel for a very long time.
    Communes have been around even before the Hippies brought them into the forefront.
    We have always had alternative lifestyles and their reasons for being have been diverse. It is very good that you have a relationship with them and they have helped you, as you have helped them.
    Enjoy the growing season, and let us know how you are keeping out the groundhogs besides the good old fence.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  192. tegmark May 29, 2012 at 1:09 pm #

    James S Saint wrote:
    nameta9 wrote:Are the laws of physics invariant for all possible Observers ? If you have Observer1 O1 and Observer2 O2, are the laws of physics the same for both of them such that:
    L = f1(O1) = f2(O2)
    where L is an invariant form of the Laws of Physics in all possible reference systems according to all possible Observers ( all possible Information Processing Networks in newly designed Brains, all possible Processors), f1 is a particular function relative to the particular design of the particular Observer O1 and f2 is another specific function relative to the specific design of Observer2 O2 such that they transform the expression of all of the invariant repetitive laws discovered in one reference system O1 into the equivalent, but one to one association expression of the corresponding invariant repetitive laws discovered on behalf of Observer2 ?
    Yes.
    Else they aren’t the “Laws of Physics”.
    In fact, what I am searching for are the most General Laws of Physics possible given any possible Observer or Processor design. And this project is destined to fail because it is always biased by my own Universe and Reference System from which I will never be able to escape unless I become something else, totally alien and totally non communicable.
    The design of the Observer defines the design of the Universe that the Observer will interact with, the design of the Observer implies automatically, from the outset, the only kind of universe and hence laws of physics that it can live in and have, the set of Information Relationships that it can express and “Experience”, as the kind of life it can Experience, etc.
    Interesting to see how Man has gone from being the center of all in old religions and even Science, to being an ever more relative item compared to the rest of the Universe, and then at the End of Science, he becomes once again the center of all, as the design of Man defines the universe he can interact and live in, but at the same time, automatically makes the design of man the utmost arbitrary and random choice, just a fluke choice amongst many trillions of possible Observer designs, of possible Processor designs and formats, and each Processor design can interact with a completely different Universe and set of laws of Physics. And hence even Man’s universe is just one of many possible Universes and Laws of Physics, his very Science and Logic becomes Arbitrary and Relative, the last substance of any ground and reference system evaporates forever. Bye, bye any Absolutes…
    We are just a number written on a wall, with other numbers looking at us…

  193. Desperado May 29, 2012 at 1:17 pm #

    Michael Crichton was a crypto-fascist crank who was wrong about almost everything.
    Sort of like an even less talented Ayn Rand who read Popular Science.

  194. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    Glad to hear you are feeling better. I’m a cancer survivor myself. I will never forget the thrill of terror on hearing the diagnosis, the sudden thrust to stardom in my own horror movie. And the joy as my body rallied under the treatment. And still remember the people in the chemo clinic, how they wished me well on my last day – and how I felt guilty as I left, knowing that most of them were never going to fully recover as I was likely to (and have).
    Ken Wilber’s book about the cancer of his wife Treya (Dakini Wind) was great to read. How many new age guilt trips are laid on people. As if even plants don’t get cancer… And he describes the moment of her surrender to the inevibality of death – and how immediately she went into ecstacy. An advanced practicioner and an example to bear in mind.
    Cats are difficult. The one I have now is driving me mad. She is very emotionally dependant, more like an infant than a cat. Also she keeps urinating on the rug. Do they make diapers for cats? I think I’m going to give her up to a no kill shelter. She’ll be perfect for some exteme cat person who wants a furry infant. I love cats for their independence. This one isn’t. She’s a stray I took in after the previous stray disappeared, probably eaten by coyotes.
    I live in a house now that I own. No mortgage. The manufactured home was just a stop gap. The single wide was fixed idea for you, part of the ghetto prison you delegated me too in your mind.
    The job sounds great especially if you can do it from home. That’s good for your recovery. How did you get that? Do you have a background in economics or business? Or just writing?

  195. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    So, JHK is talking about Ponzi’s End, a nice change from Greek default terrorist talk.
    Greece could default, but that won’t be Ponzi’s End, even though it might mean the ECB would be technically insolvent. Meh. Given the junk collateral already accepted for the LTROs, it’s probably insolvent already.
    From recent experience we now know central bank insolvency doesn’t matter anyway. Nor does quantitative easing cause hyperinflation. The strategy that works is “muddling through”
    Ponzi’s End, if it is at hand, will greet us with a whimper, not a bang. Sorry, doomers. No Black Swans, no sudden economic collapse. No social breakdown leading to bloodletting in the streets. Just more muddling through for a few more years or decades, or centuries … whatever.
    Greece is undergoing a slow motion default – slow enough for investors to accommodate it. The private sector banks have already taken their lumps and written down their Greek assets. No biggie. No dramatic Ponzi’s End.

  196. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

    You’re missing the point: revolution is a PROCESS. It’s still early on yet. And many refugess from Eastern Europe and Russia have warned us not underestimate political correctness. They can see the forces of the Left waxing in strength and flexing their muscle.
    Likewise, Whites from South Africa warn us that they’ve heard all the PC rhetoric before. And tell us not to give in and give up our control of the levers of power.

  197. John Howard May 29, 2012 at 1:36 pm #

    I have been suggesting to Jim for a while now he should endorse what I call The Egg and Sperm Civil Union Compromise, because it would not only resolve the marriage debate by preserving marriage as a man and a woman with the right to conceive children togther from their own genes, prohibiting creating children by any means other than joining a man and a woman’s unmodified gametes, and offering federal recognition of state Civil Unions to couples that are prohibited from conceiving children together, as same-sex couples would be.
    I am very hopeful now that JHK will revisit my suggestion, because when I made it before, I think he just thought he didn’t want to get involved in the marriage debate and he wasn’t worried about genetic engineering and Transhumanism because he believed they were not going to survive into the long emergency. I agree they are unlikely to survive into the long emergency, but as long as we leave same-sex reproduction legal and teach children that they can change sex, and might not “be” the sex they clearly are, then there will be a crisis of confidence and lots of money and time wasted on research and sad confusing children.
    See, the Egg and Sperm Civil Union Compromise isn’t just about prohibiting genetic engineering or establishing civil unions or preserving marriage, it is more about restoring a reassuring tone of confidence and clear lines of responsibility.
    Please Jim, endorse the idea, it is the catalyst we need to turn the nations attention to our real problems.

  198. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 1:42 pm #

    Yes order will be restored – by Men. But the interim may be very messy and nasty. And women will seek male protection if they can get it in many areas. And when order is restored, hopefully it will be a less misandric order than we have now. Feminism is the real poison – we’re just reacting to that.
    Feminists never wanted equality. I thought they did when I was younger, but time has told the tale. I was willing to adapt but I saw that women just wanted all they could get: all the rights of the new order and all the privledges of the old.
    That’s why men should rule: we are naturally wired to take care of women whereas women don’t give a fig for the suffering of men. Women’s compassion is for children and for other women. Nothing for men who aren’t related and often not even for their husbands. And sometimes not even much for their own sons. Check yourself and you will see I’m right. Men need to “man up and shut up” that’s the only advice you people have for us in regards to our suffering. A big change from the old claim that Feminism would free men from their rigid roles, eh?
    Feminism freed women from their rigid roles, keeping the old privledges of course. Now women are free to chase the top 5% of the wealthy men. And for the rest, they can go die quietly somewhere. And needless to say, most women wont get one of the 5% so they end up alone. This is a system that maximizes isolation and unhappiness for both sexes. As one savant said, “When one sex wins, both lose.” You won so you’ve lost.

  199. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 1:46 pm #

    Note: Obviously some men fail in their duties to the women in their lives. But they usually know it at some level. My point is that the directive is hard wired in the male. Women have nothing similar in regards to men. That’s the danger. And why they are unfit to command.

  200. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 1:46 pm #

    James, you never defined what made them a cult as opposed to a commune?
    We have been so brainwashed by modernity to have a negative reaction to the word “cult” …
    “Cult” is derived from the French culte, meaning “worship” … Oooo, scary!
    The study of cultic or liturgical practices is called liturgiology. Cult is embodied in ritual and ceremony, e.g., Christianity is a cult. Oooo, scary!
    Going back further the word “cult” originated from the Latin word cultus meaning “tended, cultivated,” as in the past participle of colere “to till the soil”.
    Oooo, permaculture! Definitely scary!
    Cult, Cultic, Cultivate, Culture, etc.
    The word “cult” has positive connotations. Nothing to be scared about.
    “…if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps ‘the’ religion; and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect; but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult.” Leo Pfeffer.
    A humorous quotation, but one that is uncomfortably close to reality.

  201. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 1:57 pm #

    Yes, because a small number of people are confused about their gender or orientation, they want to make them feel better by making everyone doubt their gender and orientation. This is perverse in the extreme – in the general or non sexual sense of the word. Thus public schools are becoming unteneable for people who care about their children and don’t want them subjected to this kind abuse or other kinds such as being told Whites are evil, the Untied States is evil, etc.

  202. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 2:16 pm #

    Oh when will realize the Fullness of the seeming void; the Voidness of the seeming full? As Merrill Wolfe said “Substantiality is inversely proportional to ponderability”. Ponder on that. This intuition, which lead to the first Awakening, was based on the work of the physicist Dirac.
    I wonder if Rush has realized this? Or is he still pondering the vacuum called matter or worse, mental constructions about this? Or constructions about those constructions? As Ramana said, Words are the great grandsons of Truth.

  203. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 2:26 pm #

    He doesn’t call himself El Rushbo Maharishi for nuttin’.
    I’m still waitin’ for the test results after I went to all the trouble of providing a detailed description of that reddish/brown squirrel.

  204. Laura Louzader May 29, 2012 at 2:26 pm #

    This is such bullshit it makes me roll on the floor and laugh myself to tears.
    Men are no more “hardwired” to care for women than the other way around, and they are definitely not “hardwired” to take care of their kids.
    If you doubt me, consider feudal Europe and the neo-feudal Antebellum south. You could see, laboring in the fields and starving in their cottages, dozens of peasants with the facial features of the dominant family, just as you could find many hundreds of black people in a particular county who were closely related to plantation owners who didn’t even consider them to be human. These peasants and slaves were mostly the sons and daughters of aristocrats and slave owners who didn’t even recognize their common humanity, let alone their relationship as their sons and daughters. That’s how men “took care of” the women beneath their class level. The exploitation of female servants and low wage workers was a given, and the babies born were NOT elevated to the upper-caste father’s status, but ended up with their mother’s low status, or were given to a foundling hospital where their chances of survival were very low.
    The same pattern continues to this day, though it is less blatant and brutal, thanks to women’s lib and the relative affluence of our lower classes. Males who “make it” almost always marry women from the class they’ve earned themselves into and forget about the secretaries and aspiring actresses and other such riffraff they played around with or co-habitated with on their way up. Women do NOT have the same opportunity to marry “up” as men do, because upper class males almost always, with rare exceptions, prefer to marry within the class they perceive themselves to belong to. Note that Leona Helmsley was already a millionaire real estate saleswoman when she married Harry, else she’d never gotten near the guy. Yet I know of 4 men who were able to marry upper class women though they had not quite earned their way into that bracket. Upper class women will do anything to have an “escort”, while men can always get an “escort”.
    The higher up the socio-economic ladder you look, the more marriages are likely to considered with material and “suitability” concerns foremost in the minds of both partners and their families. This has always been the way with humans and I don’t see it ever changing. People born far down the ladder, of whichever sex, have very small chances of achieving social mobility through marriage.
    And they really shouldn’t try. The only way to achieve durable success is to WORK for it, and everyone I ever knew who married “up” ended up doing a lot more work and enduring a lot more suffering to earn his or her riches than they would have if they’d just worked and saved.

  205. 8man May 29, 2012 at 2:37 pm #

    We are always fighting our “Mental Model” of things, of the way we imagine that they are supposed to be, etc.: but things are independent from any of our Mental Models and we are always surprised to discover how random and independent from us or any model we have in our mind reality is. And we fight ourselves because reality contradicts our Mental Model, what “We Thought Should and Would Happen” and such: like I wanted my kid to go to college (Mental Model) but instead he became a thug and such, and so I fight myself and try to force reality to abide to the Mental Model, when the Mental Model was false and must be hosed, accept reality and give up, etc. Don’t fight yourself, jut accept Reality and get rid of any Mental Models or Plans or Projects or Expectations, etc.
    Back on Dice: in order to help you all contradict me, I will give you a clue: it is true that the Observer implies a Universe that he can Observe according to how he is designed, the Observer fits in perfectly with the way the Universe he Observes is designed (according to how he himself is designed, a kind of positive feedback loop fitting the Observer to his Universe, each to each other perfectly, one implies the other) and how he Interacts with it and the fixed set of events the Observer and the Outside Universe expect to occur during the lifetime of the Observer (the possible Information Relationship Set and Reciprocal Interaction Set).
    But the design process that created the Observer (the Man Brain as we know it and according to the Universe as we know it) was executed by Natural Evolution, through a gradual adaptation of every new “Functionality” to the environment in which the Observer found himself in, through a constant testing and trying of each small change, making only the most functional changes survive etc. Compare this to the imagined “Instant Singularity” where there is no “Evolution” or trial and error process, but a one shot radical change of the Observer and the expectation that this Observer can survive and Live and Be Conscious in a new imagined Universe (or his Universe).
    But we can imagine that all and all we are simply inside an artificial contraption where Natural Evolution and the gradual trial and error adaptation is just a make believe, a simulation, just a joke. And we can imagine any other contraption with any other radically new and one shot designed Observer Instantly adapated to a corresponding Universe and Law of Physics, as fake as can be, but since the only thing that really matters is the one shot sequence of point like events the Observer is experiencing and “Living”, Evolution and Gradual are not not necessary, only the Information Relationship Set and Interaction Set count and are effectively perceived by the Observer as he lives in this “Artificial Universe”: we may very well all the same be inside an “Artificial Universe” of some alien race, where a microsecond of ours is a year of theirs or a year of our life is a microsecond of theirs and so on.
    nameta9
    Philosopher
    Posts: 1527
    Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

  206. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 2:37 pm #

    That’s how men “took care of” the women beneath their class level.
    Dem white mens just be doin’ their part in that there miscegenation.
    The only way to achieve durable success is to WORK for it…
    You be believin’ in the Easter bunny, too, Miss Laura?
    A child of God can work awful hard serving dem fries and burgers… ain’t never gonna get no “durable success” or “social mobility”

  207. Belisarius May 29, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

    All corporate statistics are lies and all goverment statistics are damn lies! That leaves us with what we can see.
    The Chinese real eastate bubble is far larger than any western bubble. It includes five (or is it six?) completed vacant cities. Even if these vacant inland cities turn out to have strategic value (in a rising seas, pole shift or nuclear war scenario) this level of building cannot be sustained.
    Chinese real estate demand is dependent on their manufacturing economy. Chinese manufacturing economy is dependent on export demand and that demand is plummeting. A Chinese economic crash is inevitable, some would say it has begun already.
    Could the Chinese honor their oil purchase contracts anyway? Yes, they have the foreign exchange to purchase the oil and build new storage for it. Will they? Anybody’s guess.

  208. Sean M May 29, 2012 at 2:49 pm #

    I hope Jim writes more about this group. The doctrine of adult males being circumcised before marriage is quite interesting. Wonder if he ever seen any of that back in the 70s.

  209. anti soak May 29, 2012 at 2:53 pm #

    Gee, how Orwellian!
    ‘China’s communist-government-run economy, not the USA free market capitalist economy, is the engine of world economy’
    But Chairmen Marx and Mao said that the workers produce, never management.US has more Indians than China has chiefs.

  210. Widespreadpanic7 May 29, 2012 at 2:54 pm #

    Dammit Jim, I’ve found some pretty good stuff at yard sales and flea markets. A few years ago I picked up a German Luger for 20 bucks. I bought a garage full of hand tools, most made right here in the USA from back when we made stuff. I’ve found Collins Axes, New Britain Machine wrenches, Stanley tool micrometers, Winchester .30-30 ammo, shovels and hoes from Mass., hammers from Mann Company in Pennsy, drill bits, screw drivers, machetes, a Baker shotgun from NY State (neded some work) … and that’s just for starers. Not far from you in Newfane, Vt is a great flea market selling every tool ever made in the US probably from the beginning. And its all for just a few $$$. Sure there is a lot of worthless junk. Thats the stuff that gets thrown in the dumpster at the end of the day.
    –WSP7

  211. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 2:54 pm #

    I love the poor! If only they didn’t smell so bad. How can anything so good smell so bad?
    Like Ignatius Reilly, my love for them keeps me awake at night.

  212. Widespreadpanic7 May 29, 2012 at 2:57 pm #

    Best thing: last year I picked up a Parker bench vice, made in Meriden, CT, same company that mfg. the classic Parker Shotgun, for $5.00. It was at a yard sale in Stockbridge, Mass.
    –WSP7

  213. anti soak May 29, 2012 at 2:58 pm #

    Not sure if you mean the crime of ‘Bullying’ or the media narrative of such.
    Its true that gays in school, bullied, commit suicide at higher rates than straights.
    Its also true that Gay adults off themselves at higher rates.
    Theres a great article at TAKI, titled something like ‘Lady Gaga….’ Here tis:
    Taki’s Magazine article/death_by_diva_kathy_shaidle
    Mar 27, 2012 – Death by Diva? Lady Gaga

  214. anti soak May 29, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

    Please stop dragging Ramana into yr ‘homophobic hate fest’.

  215. Al Klein May 29, 2012 at 3:01 pm #

    I too like Laura’s treatise today. I would, however, like to hear more about the “… sleeping with whores…” part of western life. This interest is entirely academic, of course.

  216. anti soak May 29, 2012 at 3:03 pm #

    A few years ago I read how China was pumping cities out! Largest user of concrete,etc.
    Ive always held a dim view of China, its opression of women, its materialism,Tibet takeover, legal infanticide etc.
    I get a kick out of whites who go there to study FengShui adnauseum and ‘dont see China for what it is'[including Mao killing 70 million chinks].
    China depends on the rest of the world buying its goods.

  217. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

    Remember, the rich Women benefited from slavery too. Interesting how you forgot that. Men got forgotten and remember strategically nowadays. If a woman soldier does something great – kudos for team women. If a man does something great – a soldier did something great. But if he screws up, a man screwed up.
    You may have something about the upper class: they are wise to the hypergamous ways of women perhaps. So they are on the watch for gold diggers. And rich women, having already made it by birth, marriage and divorce, or real achievment, may be a little more relaxed about hypergamy than women who haven’t made it. The rich are different! You and F Scott are in agreement. Seriously, you are a worthy opponent but you never give my ideas a chance before you attempt to narrowly refute them – again with great ability. You could have been a good lawyer or prosecutor.
    Feminism is an inter-generational disease as your previous post indicated. But a self correcting one: your granny, your mom, you, your ….. I’m glad you are happy, if you are. But most women want children and bitterly resent the docs who lied to them about how they could wait – or their own foolish passing up of worthy suitors in their youth.

  218. anti soak May 29, 2012 at 3:07 pm #

    heres the start of the article:
    How we get bullied:
    How many suicides will we blame on Lady Gaga years from now?
    Take 16-year-old Campbell Kenneford, who told the Daily Mail that Lady Gaga inspired him to have a sex change [!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]
    Hear me out: Our ruling elites insist that bullied gay teens commit suicide in greater numbers than the general population—a dubious statistic—so all children are now obliged to endure “anti-bullying” campaigns in school.
    Of course, these “anti-bullying” campaigns are simply the latest, well, bullying attempts to normalize homosexual behavior and recruit youngsters into a promiscuous gay lifestyle.
    Gay activists admit this, and this phony suicide “epidemic” was debunked over ten years ago, but straight “useful idiots” are in denial. And hey, decorating the classroom with rainbows is easier and more fun than teaching algebra, right?

  219. BeingThere May 29, 2012 at 3:08 pm #

    The Red Tail Hawk Lives!!
    A beautiful Red Tail Hawk with open wings glided past us and landed in a low shady tree in Washington Square park along the eastern end near the a fence.
    Patiently, it sat for a throng of photographers including myself snapping pictures with our cell phones.
    I couldn’t help but imagine him/her to be a celebrity used to the attention like a true professional.
    So in the heart of downtown NYC nature asserts itself–always a great reminder of life outside our narrow scope!

  220. Steve May 29, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    the description of the weekend seems a tad like something out of World Made by Hand.
    Anyway, small-town VT seems like a place right out of this. We are our own little world and living here I feel SO removed from the reality of CLusterfuck Nation – so what is real, VT or CFN? Quandary. We are working on local energy, a strong local food system, and the state motto: Please visit. Spend Your Money. GO Home.

  221. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    Huh? Where did I do that? That was a couple of days ago. Now women are the target. Many holy men have spoken against homosexuality. The Dalai Lama for one. To my knowledge, Ramana never spoke of it.

  222. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 3:27 pm #

    That leaves us with what we can see. The Chinese real estate bubble is far larger than any western bubble.
    You can see the Chinese real estate bubble? What kind of glasses do you wear?
    Other people “see” otherwise.
    “There has been a bubble in the Chinese property market which is now over,” Jim Rogers was quoted saying in an exclusive interview with the paper. “It’s always right to follow what the government does, so look at the Five-Year Plan (2011-15) to see where the government’s sympathy lies,” said Rogers. Those sympathies lie with new value added technologies like biotech, and building up the municipalities in the interior of China, and — more importantly — building China’s social safety net to help an aging population stay out of poverty.
    SOURCE: Forbes Investing 4/09/2012

  223. John Howard May 29, 2012 at 3:27 pm #

    Please help me get my proposal off the ground! It could be done before the elections, if we just start saying it’s a good compromise. Try googling it, The Egg And Sperm Civil Union Compromise and start spreading the idea. It will have an amazing effect on our culture, and restore men’s sense of worth and value, women will have to admit that men are needed after all, and same-sex couples aren’t just the same.

  224. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 3:33 pm #

    Yes, they live in big cities sometimes and feed on pigeons. I feel bitter that I’ve never seen one take its prey.
    I did see a Sea Gull and Crow fight an aerial battle: beatiful like the green lion and red dragon of alchemical lore. Or more prosiacally, the battle between the Black and White Race.
    Black kids are so racist that they don’t ever want to be White while playing chess. You can’t make this stuff up, white people.

  225. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 3:37 pm #

    Still feeling guilty up there about the lack of Blacks? Count your blessings. I heard some crazy Vt farmers who were trying to get Blacks up there…
    In Burlington, they agonize over why the few Blacks commit so many of the crimes…. How can they spin it so it’s White People’s fault.

  226. Belisarius May 29, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    “A more enlightened market approach would be to reapportion taxes from productive activities involved with earnings (income & payroll, for example), to societal cost taxes. A current method is “Sin Taxes” on tobacco and alcohol.
    For our energy we could tax based upon:
    *environmental damage.
    *productivity lost due to gridlock.
    *health costs due to air, water pollution, etc.
    *indirect military costs.
    *road maintenance.
    This approach would encourage conservation and make renewable energy sources more competitive.”
    *************************************************
    Not on this planet!
    That might work where the “govern mint” was not an owned subsidiary of those who also own the energy companies and the financial system.
    Per a free market: If someone proposed a credible method to overthrow the current control system, institute a free market and then keep it free, the proposal might be worth a try. Keep in mind that anyone with the power to achieve this is likely to have an negative incentive.
    Certianly a free market has yet to be seen.
    It is hard to envision a market or government escaping control by the elite for more than a short time.

  227. dale May 29, 2012 at 3:49 pm #

    The job sounds great especially if you can do it from home. That’s good for your recovery. How did you get that? Do you have a background in economics or business? Or just writing?
    ————————–
    All of the above, corporate level finance, but never had three consecutive seconds I enjoyed being there, so couldn’t hang around long enough to make the big time. I’d be dead a long time ago if I’d stuck, probably with a rich good looking widow.
    Send one resume out to an editor, he’s kept me as busy as I want for over a year now. All from home, all piece work. Partly luck, partly background.
    Even your cat pisses on you?? no wonder you are so screwed up Vlad. Get a fuckin’ life would ya?, and give the women and blacks a break for christsake.

  228. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 3:54 pm #

    OK, John Howard, I’ll bite.
    You say: “offering federal recognition of state Civil Unions to couples that are prohibited from conceiving children together”
    Does that mean that infertile men and infertile women, those who are incapable of conceiving children, would be limited to Civil Unions and denied marriage, even though it’s a one-man and one-woman love affair?

  229. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

    Certainly a free market has yet to be seen.
    Which makes it all the more ludicrous that people keep talking about it as a panacea.

  230. John Howard May 29, 2012 at 4:09 pm #

    No asoka, infertile couples are not prohibited from conceiving offspring, so they are allowed to marry. No one is prohibited from marrying or conceiving offspring. Everyone is allowed to marry and conceive offspring with their spouse, but there are some types of relationships that are off limits to everyone and should be prohibited to marry and procreate, such as siblings and other close relatives, children, and people already married to someone else. Those types of relationships, however, should be eligible for Civil Unions that give all the other rights of marriage but do not approve and allow sex and procreation. (And couples that are eligible for marriage could get these Civil Unions as well, if they felt like it, but it wouldn’t express society’s approval of sex and procreation like a marriage does.)

  231. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    No asoka, infertile couples are not prohibited from conceiving offspring, so they are allowed to marry.
    How would an infertile couple conceive? Artificial insemination? Turkey baster?
    Gay couples can do the same thing. I think your proposal would face gigantic legal challenges as unconstitutional.
    You want to prohibit two people who love each other from having and raising children, just because they are same sex. Would not pass muster constitutionally.

  232. John Howard May 29, 2012 at 4:38 pm #

    correction – children would not be eligible for Civil Unions, obviously, nor would people already married to someone else. So, basically, they are just for same-sex couples and closely related non-sexual couples and other platonic male-female couples.
    The idea is pretty simple: same-sex couples admit that they cannot ethically procreate together and give up claiming the equal right to procreate together that a man and a woman have in marriage, and in exchange we give them Civil Unions that will never become marriages but will give them the security and protections they and their families need.

  233. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    infertile couples are not prohibited from conceiving offspring
    Infertile one man-one woman couples are prohibited by God from conceiving offspring. God did not give them enough sperm or eggs to conceive. God probably doesn’t even want them to be together.
    But you would allow Civil Unions for them. You are risking the wrath of God with your proposal. Be careful.

  234. Laura Louzader May 29, 2012 at 6:11 pm #

    Well, Vlad, as it happens I have a feminist sister who is the mother of three, so the meme will be passed on…. to a lawyer niece, no less.
    The “disease” sort of runs in the family, being that I’m descended from Danish and German mercantile bourgeois people, on two sides of my two stem families. And the rural Scotch-Irish relations tend to be awfully independent.
    Regarding delaying motherhood: I don’t lie to young women. The “efficient frontier” for maternity, which is at the point where you’re still young and healthy enough to be fertile, yet old enough to have some financial stability, is 25-34. A little younger is OK, but no younger than 22. And no older than 36 (and that’s getting there). Over 40 should be out of the question. Even if you can conceive, your child is more likely to have crippling defects that don’t prevent him from being born, just visit him with terrible health and developmental problems- look at Karen Santorum and her unfortunate 3-year old child with Trisomy 18, which happens mostly to babies born of older mothers.
    Just as bad, your children might not get to even have you around. Your children not only need you when they’re still children, but when they’re having their own children and getting started on adult life. For this reason, it is not good for either women or men over the age of 40 to breed. I would want my kids to grow up with both their dad and their mom, and I’d like any grandchildren to have Grandma and Grandpa.

  235. John Howard May 29, 2012 at 6:46 pm #

    you’re not taking it seriously. I guess there are lots of people who just like being witty on line, but I’m trying to solve the marriage debate and change the whole course of history here.
    Tell people about the Egg and Sperm Civil Union Compromise and let’s get serious about the future.

  236. Kyooshtik May 29, 2012 at 7:02 pm #

    As Hobbes put it: for the mass of humanity life is “nasty, short, and brutish” [I paraphrase, not having consulted Bartlett’s].
    ==========
    Welcome back Bubble…here’s the whole thing:
    no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short

  237. Kyooshtik May 29, 2012 at 7:10 pm #

    China’s GDP per capita: 500% increase
    2000 China US$800
    2010 China US$4,000 (500% increase over 2000)
    China’s progress lifted all boats, to the benefit of all.
    USA’s GDP per capita: 134% increase
    2000 USA US$35,082
    2010 China US$47,153 (134% increase over 2000)
    =================
    Asoka, you are not good with numbers. The increase for China is 400% and the increase for the USA is 34%, assuming the data you started with is correct.

  238. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 7:18 pm #

    Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon recently got a look inside the Fukushima nuclear energy complex. The experience left him deeply concerned, and I, Asoka, would like to join him in calling for the USA to lend every possible assistance to stabilize what remains a very precarious situation. He paints a picture of extreme vulnerability to yet another nuclear disaster far worse than the first, especially in Unit 4.
    Inactive at the time of the quake and tsunami but wrecked by explosion, Unit 4 warehouses Fukushima’s hottest inventory of radioactive fuel rods in a part of the world that remains very seismically unstable.
    “The precarious status of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear units and the risk presented by the enormous inventory of radioactive materials and spent fuel in the event of further earthquake threats should be of concern to all and a focus of greater international support and assistance,” he said.
    Sen. Wyden joins prominent physicist Michio Kaku and nuclear engineer Arnie Gundersen in saying that there is a very real and imminent threat of nuclear disaster in the event of another big earthquake or explosion in the crippled nuclear complex.
    These experts say a breach of the above-ground storage ponds there in another incident — the probability of which is rated at about 70 percent within the next three years — could result in a catastrophe 10 times worse than Chernobyl. Such an event could require the evacuation of the entire nation of Japan and send a radioactive cloud over the whole northern hemisphere.
    THIS IS A WORLDWIDE EMERGENCY.
    Our best scientists and engineers should be assigned to help the Japanese cope with these broken reactors. A global problem of this scale requires a global response.

  239. dale May 29, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    The problem with your numbers is, no body who made 35K in 2000 is likely to be making 47K today, (statistically, at least). That’s an average, and the average guy has been getting pissed on by Vlad’s cat pretty regularly in that time frame. Wealthy aren’t complaining however.
    BTW — does Vlad’s FEMALE cat pissing on his carpet prove that karma does exist? Now, if fluffy is black….wellllll then, I rest my case.

  240. dale May 29, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

    And another thing…..one of the funniest things in U.S. politics is watching how, every time some one in the world cocks a pistol, ‘ol Sen. McCain get his rusty armor out and rides his little stick pony around the Senate huffing and puffing about how “we” ought to go in “there” and set it all straight. When exactly did that guy bump his head, anyway.

  241. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

    Thank you. I’m just not as smart as you.
    My point was to show the communist-controlled Chinese economy is outdoing the USA capitalist economy. Whether the numbers are 500% to 134% (3.73 times) or 400% to 34%, (11.76 times) both sets of numbers support my point. Your correction actually makes my case stronger.

  242. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 7:30 pm #

    The Truce is over. This is why people hate you.

  243. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 7:34 pm #

    Yes the disease is widespread among Whites. It’s good if this Civilization crashes so Whites can have a chance to reorganize in a healthier form. A slow decline will be the end of us.

  244. Crazy Horse May 29, 2012 at 7:51 pm #

    Remember the nice religious communities from the 60’s? Think that is the path to a World made by Hand? You must have a short memory, Jimbo.
    “Jonestown” by Concrete Blonde

  245. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 7:54 pm #

    Your kind is on its way out. You may be able to learn from the experience of your victims.
    kansaspress.ku.edu/adaedu.html
    May love between the races bring about a slow, and nonviolent, process of extinction of morally-challenged whites through miscegenation.

  246. Tark May 29, 2012 at 7:56 pm #

    Asoka, most of the productivity that has driven Chinese success is from manufacturing junk. Total crap that people in the U.S. will cut way down on as the economy here continues to wane. They don’t manufacture many products that are absolutely vital or of high quality.
    You’re also a huge hypocrite, Asoka. The Chinese can be extremely brutal, even bloody, in dealing with their own people. You’re no peace-filled enlightened ol’ campaigner. You’re gleefully waiting for them to best the West, lol.

  247. Tark May 29, 2012 at 8:01 pm #

    Blacks will still be surrounded and outnumbered. You know that, give it up. You’ll never have hegemony in the country.

  248. John Howard May 29, 2012 at 8:06 pm #

    Absolutely, we should be demanding that every available resource is devoted to getting Fukushima safe and sound immediately. It’s outrageous that we are prioritizing gay marriage and same-sex procreation over preserving our natural procreation rights and fertility. Nuclear disasters certainly affect people’s procreation and fertility, so the genetic engineers just don’t care about nuclear disasters, they would benefit if tons of people became infertile and needed genetic engineering.

  249. BeingThere May 29, 2012 at 8:10 pm #

    Let’s go nuclear!
    Well Asoka, you might want to take a look at this country as well as Fukishima.
    Yes Fukishima is a disaster that keeps on giving, and as you must be reading deep sea Tuna found on the West Coast now has cesium.
    We also know that the MOX fuel rods are sitting on top of building 4 and nothing’s being done about it. Can you spell melt-down?
    But here in the good ole’ USA is a real beaut! from the website blueblogging. Just google the following title.
    Trashing Texas Is BIG Money For Republican Donors and Rick Perry.
    Harold Simmons, Billionaire and corporate raider who is a waste control specialist, wants to dump nuclear wastes from 37 states into Texas right over an Aquifer.
    Ya gotta read this one. I swear I think these guys turned Christianity into the worship of Thanatos.

  250. anti soak May 29, 2012 at 8:11 pm #

    Are you saying Bill did things differently?
    ‘Way back in the 1990s’ [sorry Incrediblestringband]
    And what of Hit-lary? And Barak?

  251. ozone May 29, 2012 at 8:16 pm #

    little laddie lederhosen IS the Mouth of Madness.
    What are you imbibing/injesting/smoking, and what station are you tuned to?
    (The time-stamp on your posting couldn’t have been more apropos.)

  252. anti soak May 29, 2012 at 8:18 pm #

    I was turning on NPR and I think I heard the Natural Gas Industry as one of their advertisers

  253. Tark May 29, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    As soon as you get your.. head out of Asoka’s lap you can look around and tune in to something else yourself.
    of course the timing was great. I knew he would eventually go on a tear -about whites who refuse to deify blacks-going extinct in one big pile of mush.
    What’s yer point?

  254. ozone May 29, 2012 at 8:36 pm #

    “Also came upon this today, a story about Jesus of Siberia. An idyllic community, no cars or roads or suburbs, yet they were all followers.”
    Being that “they were all followers” is plenty reason to be suspicious.
    A lemming stampede consists of “followers”.

  255. Nastarana May 29, 2012 at 8:50 pm #

    Laura, Thank you for your kind response.
    Why the “I’m ignorant and proud of it” contingent thinks it will ever be invited to be in charge of anything is beyond me.
    Vlad, In these times, order is usually restored by foreign armies, Canadian if we are lucky, and Chinese if we are not. Martial law tends to hand out summary executions for those who have been causing mayhem, and to put productive people to work.
    Women not showing “compassiom”? Gee, maybe we got a few too many rocks thrown at us, those who were not attractive, a few too many insults, maybe, the formerly good lookers, got knocked around a few too many times, got subjected to a few too many crude come ons.
    Maybe some of you boomer mens should have stayed with someone who loved you, even if she wan’t a perfect ten. Maybe you should have stayed off the drugs and out of the bars, and spent some cash on your kids. You try raising kids on your own and holding down a job; then maybe you can lecture at others about how the genders are “hardwired”.
    Were you ever fired from a job where you had a good work and perfect attendance record beccause some friend of the boss thought you weren’t “perky” enough? Happens to women all the time.
    Were you seriously thinking that you could have a lot of fun with exciting number 10 ladies, and then when you started to slow down some plain girl with a good personality would be oh so grateful to take care of you? Ha! Cry, baby, cry!

  256. ozone May 29, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

    “Meanwhile, demand for Chinese exports is falling, and that’s what underwrites it all.” -LL
    Laura,
    And, pray tell, what might these vaunted exports be make from?
    Oh, that’s right, finite resources that (the most of which) they do not even possess within their borders. Hmmm, what happens when contractual promises are not honored?
    Now, if they were manufacturing coveted items made from bits of human Chinese bodies, we’d have something that would go a bit farther, time-wise.
    I know! Pet foods could be in high demand on the export market… Ms. Tosser, get me Purina on the phone, and be quick about it!

  257. anti soak May 29, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    Saw this at TAKIs, now canadian Scouting is a tool to ‘teach’ diversity and tolerance!
    ‘Scouts Canada National Diversity Video.
    Scouting is a great program for all Canadian youth to learn and enjoy’.
    The left is SO sick.

  258. ozone May 29, 2012 at 8:58 pm #

    …And there ya be.
    Glad you pointed that out. It’s what really is, not some theoretical book-babble.
    Lock and load… THEN place yer bets.

  259. charliefoxtrot May 29, 2012 at 9:19 pm #

    awesome, right?! we have a nesting pair that live about 200 yards across the meadow next to our house- there is something primal about that screech! and in the spring you can see the parents teaching the youngun’ how to hunt; it s like Nature streamed live, or something, ha ha i ll never forget the time one of them spent maybe five minutes on the tree branch at the edge of the yard- which is about thirty feet from the floor to ceiling windows…incredible…

  260. ozone May 29, 2012 at 9:19 pm #

    Score!!!!
    (And we ain’t talkin’ feetsball-no-hands.)

  261. Tark May 29, 2012 at 9:20 pm #

    “Were you ever fired from a job where you had a good work and perfect attendance record beccause some friend of the boss thought you weren’t “perky” enough? Happens to women all the time.”
    Eh, sorry, I flat don’t believe that one. They could never get away with it.
    ————————————————
    There will also never be a foreign force of troops on American soil, or whatever other shit you were babbling about in your diatribe against “mens”.
    Women like Nasty, liberals(and pseudo-intellectuals)like Ozone, and negroids like Asoka are three examples of three of the groups(more than three) killing the U.S.
    Melodramatic but true.

  262. ozone May 29, 2012 at 9:40 pm #

    Asoka??
    Fuck “him”; I don’t read his droolings.
    As fer you… no further comment nor readings either.
    You didn’t understand, eh?
    Tough shit; life’s hard.

  263. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 9:40 pm #

    The left is SO sick.
    [sarcasm on]
    Yeah, diversity and tolerance! Imagine that! Sick, sick, sick!
    The scouts should be teaching racial purity and encourage beating up anyone different from you.
    [sarcasm off]

  264. asoka. May 29, 2012 at 9:43 pm #

    Asoka?? I don’t read his droolings.

    ============
    Ozone? Yes! I read all his posts and enjoy them immensely. I am large (tolerant). I contain multitudes (diversity).

  265. Tark May 29, 2012 at 10:20 pm #

    I got into an attack frenzy.’!!’ I apologize, I think.

  266. Belisarius May 29, 2012 at 11:08 pm #

    Jim Rodgers is a smart investor. Betting on companies subsidized by the Chinese government could pay off despite the overall outlook. I also agree the bubble has popped, we just haven’t seen much of the fallout yet, due to government cushioning of the favored.
    The Chinese economic growth model is even less sustainable than the Western one. There are not enough resources in the world to continue it’s growth long term. Trees do not grow to the sky. The cracks in the Chinese growth model are apparent if you look, and will be evident even to those who don’t soon.
    globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/05/china-manufacturing-pmi-softens-again.html
    Of course the economic pundits that have been touting the USA “recovery” since 2009 are unlikely to notice.

  267. charliefoxtrot May 29, 2012 at 11:12 pm #

    …ok, THAT was funny! impedia, but funny…!
    @tark- pseudo, huh? muthafuckah has utilized more intelligence within one of his flippant replies to hoser than you ve shown in all of your turd droppings that i ve bothered to read…O3 is one the Nation’s originals, jackass, and is, if nothing else, well respected for having an actool point of view and perspective based upon reality and experience…who the fuck are you to administer an ad hominem attack? tark? Really?! how about shut the fuck up and leave us to have an adult conversation…?

  268. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 11:21 pm #

    Try backing up a bit John. I’m not sure exactly what you are arguing for either even though I think I’m on your wavelength.

  269. Buck Stud May 29, 2012 at 11:42 pm #

    I don’t have to wonder what Hobbes or Kierkegaard would have thought about CFN’s extraordinary fixation on a ‘Doomsday’ future since their writings are abundantly clear regarding the pitfalls of “The Next Day” obsession.
    As Hobbes writes:
    ” So that man, which looks too far before him, in the care of future time, hath his heart all the day long, gnawed on the feare of death,poverty, or other calamity; and has no repose, nor pause of anxiety, but in sleep.”

  270. Vlad Krandz May 29, 2012 at 11:45 pm #

    Don’t bother – he’s an Anti-White Fanatic. Whites like him decided the White Race has to die. And they HATE Whites who don’t consent to suicide like them.
    He can’t stand reading viewpoints that don’t agree with his own so he pretends that he doesn’t read them. But he often does nontheless.

  271. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 12:20 am #

    Women destroyed the social contract between the sexes. They didn’t need men once welfare was available and without stigma. That ended the Black Family and now many among the White Poor. On a higher level, no fault divorce gave women a way to get men’s estates without the men. The Temptation was too great and the divorce rate soared – mostly brought by women. And academics went right along writing spurious papers about how fathers weren’t necessary. How many thugs have been created by raising boys without fathers!
    So we’ve given up on y’all. The hatred and evil are just too great. We’ll look for wives among the uncorrupted women in other lands. Competition! You’re a slovenly lot, obese and ill mannered. You don’t stand a chance. Men in Europe feel the same way about American Women.

  272. anti soak May 30, 2012 at 12:38 am #

    Diversity is code for ‘anti white’.
    Tolerance, of what and for how long?
    Since when should Scouts be indoctrinated?

  273. anti soak May 30, 2012 at 12:45 am #

    ‘You’re also a huge hypocrite, Asoka’
    In the words of OEO, ‘You must be new around here’.
    [No limit to the # of peeps you can luv at asokas luv-in]

  274. asoka. May 30, 2012 at 12:55 am #

    Diversity is code for ‘anti white’.
    I respectfully disagree, anti soak. Diversity is strength. Diversity is not race-based. Diversity makes our nation strong. Diversity makes our army strong. Here is what our Army says about diversity:
    Army diversity is defined as the different attributes, experiences, and backgrounds of our Soldiers, civilians and family members that further enhance our global capabilities and contribute to an adaptive, culturally astute Army. The policy goes on to say that diversity is a major strength of our Army, the strength of this nation.
    Our reflection of the nation’s diverse talent and our commitment to Army values empower us to achieve the Army’s diversity vision, which is “The national leader in embracing the strengths of diverse people in an inclusive environment. We will achieve this vision by investing in and managing talent, valuing individuals, and developing culturally astute Soldiers, civilians and family members who support our communities, and who embrace the human dimension of leadership.”
    All too often, diversity is seen through the eyes of visible descriptions of skin color, gender, race, physical attributes and age. Visible descriptions can readily be observed and are important aspects of our identity, but they are only about 10 percent of who we are.
    When I think of diversity, I picture the “Diversity Iceberg Model,” developed by Shell Oil. The Iceberg Model indicates the majority of our characteristics are hidden from view, below the waterline. So when we attempt to define diversity, we must think of the bottom side of the iceberg, those invisible characteristics, such as our value systems, communications styles, family history, skills, talents, education, religion and economic status. What lies below the waterline of the iceberg are the underlying causes of what manifests itself on the visible side. The below-the-waterline descriptions or characteristics are vast and complicated belief systems and cognitive structures.

  275. Tark May 30, 2012 at 1:22 am #

    I’ll reply to this more later. But…
    He and you both have barely said a thing that wasn’t doublespeak, deliberately wordy and empty hot air… people like you love to posture online because I can guarantee you, you sonofawhore, that you couldn’t back it up in person…more later.
    I actually knew better than to apologize…oh well.

  276. asoka. May 30, 2012 at 1:25 am #

    10 Ways to Celebrate Diversity on CFN
    ? Respect everyone on CFN: We’re all human beings, and we’re all equal too. Treat others the way you want them to treat you.
    ? Make the connection with fellow CFNers: We are much more alike than at first it seems. We all have hearts and minds and dreams. Even doomers.
    ? Be proud of your heritage, even if you are a morally-challenged white: You are special – don’t keep it inside. Share the best part of your culture background with pride. Don’t dwell on the part where you dropped atom bombs on civilians.
    ? Keep an open mind: Listen to what others on CFN have to say. You’re sure to learn something new that way. There are no complete idiots here.
    ? Learn about other cultures: Explore the world that we all share. It’s your world, too, so show you care.
    ? Avoid stereotyping: Don’t judge others based on their looks or political affiliations. It’s what’s inside that matters – just like with books from your wonderful local public library.
    ? Enjoy multicultural activities: Go to cultural festivals and concerts. The world’s full of interesting things to explore.
    ? Study another language: You discover other cultures as you learn what people speak, whether it’s Japanese, Spanish, Swahili or Greek.
    ? Reach out on CFN: Friends of all backgrounds bring something new. Get to know people different from you and avoid ad hominem attack.
    ? Build CFN peace: Kind actions and words help spread peace with ease. Tolerance, love and trust are the keys. There is no limit to how many people we can love.

  277. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 1:27 am #

    Does anyone still think Obama was born in the United States? Why? What’s your proof? Note: scorn, slander, insult, and contempt are not proof – except that you got nothing to bake up your claims.
    Face it: we’ve been had. Why double down on a mistake?

  278. asoka. May 30, 2012 at 1:32 am #

    See the birth certificate here:
    cnn.com/interactive/2011/04/politics/interactive.obama.birth.certificate/index.html
    The long form, baby!

  279. anti soak May 30, 2012 at 1:52 am #

    I am told that Obama spent a Million $ fighting
    showing his BC. Mc Cain also was born outside USA.
    He merely provided his BC.

  280. 5d3a1j307su May 30, 2012 at 2:18 am #

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  281. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 2:49 am #

    To say everyone is special is to say no one is. You have said nothin – except that you don’t like Whites.

  282. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 2:51 am #

    Why did he get the financial aid that foreigners get? Why did he himself say that he was born in Kenya? Why did the people in his village say that he was born there?

  283. progress2conserve May 30, 2012 at 9:32 am #

    Nice week’s work, JHK.
    I was rereading your essay before commenting, and realized that all but the first two paragraphs dealt with your new “commune friends,” or whatever you’re going to eventually call them. Very interesting stuff. We will look forward to hearing more about these folks in coming weeks.
    “I don’t know whether these people represent a lifeboat, or if these qualities of character can be enacted in a wider consensual culture, and one not necessarily based on religious doctrine, which I am not so avid about.” -jhk-
    I don’t know either.
    We in the “prosperous?” mainstream US take law enforcement so COMPLETELY for granted – that we tend to think our own raw or quirky individualisms are a Law of Nature.
    They are not, of course. And without 911 on speeddial 24/7 – most (maybe ALL) of our present living arrangements need a backup security plan, pronto.
    Some sort of communal living could provide this security – but what would mediate the inevitable disputes, and ensure some sort of minimal dedication to common goals.
    Religion, of one sort of another, has always provided mediation and goal dedication to human groups, in the absence of omnipresent and NEUTRAL law enforcement.
    Based on my observations of human nature, and the tribal nature of family and larger groups – I don’t see how society can relocalize and “power down” without something akin to religion leading the way into a future with less robust law enforcement.
    I just don’t.
    I know this post is going to piss off the Atheist contingent on CFN. Sorry about that. But blustery denial of human nature – will not change that human nature.

  284. ozone May 30, 2012 at 10:15 am #

    Believe it or no, I do take your points. ;o)
    You might want to consult wardoc on the utility of religion in times of life-or-death desperation. If your particular religion be based on life-taking, that might come in handy for expiating the guilt of cold murder.
    I hadn’t thought much about it, but is there such a thing as neutral law enforcement? (By extension, who writes the laws that need all the enforcing, and what would their motivation be?)
    Here’s a [non]law that apparently helps to inculcate “knuckling under to authority figures”. I really don’t see any other reason for it. Agricultural Inspection, my ass:
    informationclearinghouse.info/article31452.htm
    I’ve always been in favor of eradication of some laws that pretend a moral tone. Sharia law might be fun, especially a rabid Krishan version. (Da Law according to G W Bush the Lesser would have to be one of the chapters; his exemplary jeziz worship is a beacon to unappreciated psychos and self-labeled pretend victims everywhere.)
    ****Sorry for that last bit of snark, but I know it doesn’t confront you anyway, so I let it ride. :o) (If you complain, I’ll be more circumspect in future, no worries.)

  285. asoka. May 30, 2012 at 10:19 am #

    Does anyone really know how many wives Romney has?
    Why did he strap his dog to the roof of his car? Was the car full of his wives?

  286. mistified May 30, 2012 at 10:20 am #

    “60 guests showed up for the birthday bash as the late afternoon and evening arrived, all different races and shades, but hell who cares…”
    Well, obviously you care, simpleton. Why else would you mention it?

  287. mistified May 30, 2012 at 10:22 am #

    “…illegal immigrants going back to Jalisco Mexico for a better life.”
    Riiiiight!

  288. mistified May 30, 2012 at 10:30 am #

    “Women voted for Clinton because he favored positions on reproductive rights that were favorable to women…”
    Wrong. Clinton favored the “position” of an intern on her knees. (No need for “reproductive rights” here baby, all she need do is swallow.)
    This, of course, was an emulation of his child hood hero, JFK, who also enjoyed this position. Of course, JFK, being a man of the people, shared his intern with his inner circle.

  289. Rhino May 30, 2012 at 11:13 am #

    Be proud of your heritage, even if you are a morally-challenged white: You are special – don’t keep it inside. Share the best part of your culture background with pride. Don’t dwell on the part where you dropped atom bombs on civilians. – Assoka
    Yes, ad hominem attacks are bad but racial taunts are OK? In a racially diverse and divided country like the US do you think that your incitement of racial hatred is helpful? Talk about morally challenged.
    Nobody believes your assertion that you are Black, least of all me. Blacks are not in a position of power in the US, not numerically, nor economically. So here you are maliciously trying to stir up hate towards them, a racial minority not in a position to defend themselves.
    Tell me Asoka, why do you hate Black people, why are you trying to stir up this trouble? Don’t you think Blacks have seen enough hardship this past 400 years? Don’t you think they should be left alone?
    OK Dee show us your moral superiority, your greater wit and sophistication and defend this Asoka garbage.

  290. dale May 30, 2012 at 11:15 am #

    So Fluffy IS black!! no doubt she’s a dakini warrior, here to give you instruction Vlad….listen up.

  291. asoka. May 30, 2012 at 11:17 am #

    Don’t you think [Blacks] should be left alone?
    Not really. With enough support and encouragement I think one day we will have a Black president living in the White House. I’d vote for Michelle Obama.

  292. Rhino May 30, 2012 at 11:23 am #

    Women voted for Clinton because he favored positions on reproductive rights that were favorable to women – Laura
    Laura are you so sure that Clinton actually gave a damn about women’s reproductive rights? Or was this just pure grubby politics ie tell’em what they want to hear

  293. dale May 30, 2012 at 11:26 am #

    I suppose you’re right, they make a bigger deal out of bullying now that its become a gay rights issue. But I think its far more interesting that we, as a culture, seem to need issues to get all “outraged” about, which are usually of a much more benign nature than many other issues that are right in our faces, like the thousand of gun related killings every year in this crazy country.
    Why anyone would bother to even listen to the content of the current political discourse is a mystery to me. I mean, I listen a little, but only in the same way that I observe the behavior of ants in an ant farm, not with any sense of attachment to what they are saying. It’s so impossibly artificial as to a caricature of addressing any real needs of the citizenry. Try it, the ant farm method that is, it really is a powerful perspective, and it will help preserve your sanity in the months ahead.

  294. Rhino May 30, 2012 at 11:26 am #

    You didn’t answer the questions.
    Why are you trying to stir up animosities with anti-white racial taunts?

  295. asoka. May 30, 2012 at 11:51 am #

    You didn’t answer the questions.
    Astute observation, Mr. Holmes. You have probably noticed a similar pattern in the past. When will you learn?

  296. Rhino May 30, 2012 at 12:12 pm #

    Revolution is what the word implies: a major up-ending that happens quickly.
    There used to be what old-timers called common sense consideration for other people which seems to have transmogrified into this horrible leaching acid we call “political correctness” that channels thought and discourse away from reason, reality and sound judgement.
    But as MLK said judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. Fair, no?
    So be careful Vlad. You say to “not to give in and give up our control of the levers of power”. I’ll say it again, you are an American and to be American is to be fair. When you say “our” you have to be scrupulously just. You expect fair and even treatment from other people regardless of their skin color and you have to mete out fair and even treatment in turn. You know this in your bones Vlad, that this is the only way forward and you know in your bones that any other way is the road to ruin.

  297. asoka. May 30, 2012 at 12:24 pm #

    When Romney lived in Mexico, before coming to the USA, how many wives did his grandfather have?
    When Romney entered the USA, did he enter legally?
    Has Romney ever shown his alien visa to prove he is in the USA legally?
    As a Mormon, how many wives can Romney have? How many does he have? Would having more than one wife help or hinder in the White House?

  298. welles May 30, 2012 at 12:25 pm #

    Your misunderstanding is profoundly deep, and your lack of logic disturbing.
    peace peaceniks

  299. asoka. May 30, 2012 at 12:27 pm #

    Rhino, lay off Vlad.
    If you had read his posts carefully, you would know Vlad is not a white supremacist. Vlad is a white separtist. Vlad believes in treating Blacks civilly, cordially, and having as little contact as is possible.

  300. asoka. May 30, 2012 at 12:28 pm #

    ^separatist^

  301. Buck Stud May 30, 2012 at 12:28 pm #

    Below I have linked an interesting retort to a NY Times article [the article is at the bottom of below link] regarding consumerism, quality construction, and lasting architectural permanence which are frequent CFN laments:
    mail-archive.com/aesthetics-l@mh.databack.com/msg09506.html

  302. asoka. May 30, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    ^separatist^

  303. Rhino May 30, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    In my own experience a lot of the atheist contingent is as blind as the most blind adherent to the literal word of ancient religious writings.
    These atheists, as much as the people they love to laugh at, cannot get through their skulls that “religion” and “science” concern themselves with different areas of human experience and as such are not in conflict.
    Do the writers of the texts of the Old Testament sound as if they were concerned with pure historical fact? Not to me. Religion in my view is all about how we live our lives and how we treat one another, an attempt to see beyond the fishbowl we’re living in. Science on the other hand is all about how the universe (ie the fishbowl) works.
    I know what the atheists are going to say before they say it. They want “evidence” of the sky god.
    OK so what constitutes this “evidence”? If it’s only what can be verfied under strictly controlled laboratory conditions then large areas of “science” couldn’t meet this standard.
    So what evidence is there? How about the written accounts of experiences of individuals as found in certain of the religious works. Like on Mount Horeb for instance or on the road to Damascus.
    Do I know what happened on Mt Horeb or to Saul on the road to Damascus? No I don’t. But neither do the atheists.
    Bottom line is there are ideologues (atheists) whose inflexibility and closed mindedness make them impermeable to fact, reason, uncertainty and other points of view and therefore to open discussion.

  304. welles May 30, 2012 at 12:57 pm #

    You’re a slovenly lot, obese and ill mannered. You don’t stand a chance. Men in Europe feel the same way about American Women.
    Oh so right. American women are about the most unattractive felines on the planet. So refreshing to see the real gorgeous thing all over most of the rest of the planet.
    peace peaceniks

  305. xhalor May 30, 2012 at 1:01 pm #

    Forget God. Prove to me that Jesus ever existed. Or Saul for that matter. Keep that nonsense OUT of the government and OUT of the public school system. Can’t brainwash them too early, huh?

  306. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 1:19 pm #

    The Jews believe he existed. The hated that He and His religon took so many fine young Jews away from Judaism. The Talmud is full of invective against Him. It’s a huge part of Judaism.
    Also there are a couple of classical references to Him by Roman authors of the time – Josephus is one. And although a Jew, historians are impressed by his modern tone and efforts to be objective.

  307. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 1:25 pm #

    The depth of your pettiness amazes me. What a mean spirit you have – covered over by politically correct Buddhism. You haven’t really looked at yourself despite countless hours of meditations, retreats etc.

  308. John Howard May 30, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

    Try backing up a bit John. I’m not sure exactly what you are arguing for either even though I think I’m on your wavelength.
    I’m trying to preserve natural sexual reproduction and stop labs from making babies from artificial gametes, modified genes, same-sex couples, transgendered individuals, dead people, and non-existent people, with an “Egg and Sperm Law” that prohibits creating people by any means other than joining a man and a woman’s unmodified sperm and egg.
    I am also trying to end same-sex marriage and preserve marriage as a man and a woman with the right to have sex and to use their own genes to have children, so that they are never forced to use donor genes.
    To achieve this I proposed a compromise, that would enact those two laws along with a third law that gave federal recognition to same-sex couples in state Civil Unions that are defined as “marriage minus conception rights.”

  309. ozone May 30, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

    Holy Shit!
    Them hippies with the nature-religiousity is everywhere. Oh, the horror!
    The latest from D.O. Are we seeing a pattern here? Us non-religionistas are all set to be persecuted, pilloried and purgified.
    (Genuflect to sumpthin’, just to be safe!)
    cluborlov.blogspot.com/2012/05/sustainable-living-as-religious.html#more
    I guess this is where the present prophets are finding their audiences; hope the natives are peaceful…
    ;o)

  310. bossier22 May 30, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

    I bet the less diverse army of 1945 would eat todays army for lunch in man on man combat. I would also bet that Chinese generals are laughing their asses of at the prospect of the military being a social experiment.

  311. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 1:30 pm #

    Thank you Asoka. But Rhino is right too – I don’t expect to get what I want in my lifetime. Barring an act of God/Nature, we are stuck with you for a long time if not forever.
    He underestimates the amount of prejudice against Whites. We are already being persecuted and it can only get worse as our numbers decline. We have to organize like the Blacks and Hispanics if we are to have any civil rights at all.

  312. Rhino May 30, 2012 at 1:35 pm #

    You can’t be certain about the existence of people who allegedly lived 2,000 years ago. It comes down to reasoned judgement and assessing existing evidence and assessing the probabiliites.
    For that matter prove to me that Julius Caesar existed or Columbus. Have you met them? No? Neither have I. Neither has anyone alive today.
    So how do we know they lived? The answer is in weighing various forms of evidence that have come down to over the centuries like archeological remains, skeletal remains, documentary evidence, the accounts of others alive during that time, circumstantial evidence.
    Tacitus 56AD-117AD (Roman historian) wrote in Annals: “Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus… etc etc.
    Flavius Josephus Born 37AD – circa 100AD also made mention of Jesus in his writings.
    How do we know that these works aren’t forgeries? It’s a matter of judgement, it’s in the nature of what was said, how it was said, the circumstances of how the works were discovered. Many considerations.
    Also there’s the controversial so-called Jesus family tomb at Talpiot. Make of it what you will:
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jesus_Family_Tomb
    As far as the separation of church and state goes, maybe my knowledge is faulty, but I’m under the impression that the intent of this separation is to keep government out of church affairs.

  313. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 1:41 pm #

    Are you a Catholic? I know they are very against all this stuff. I have mixed feelings, frankly. I think the natural family is best. Boys need a father to model himself on and girls need one too – the first man they will ever love.
    But Whites are endangered and frankly I can’t condmen anything that gets our birth rate up. There was the Pioneer Fund in which White geniuses donated their sperm for Women who valued such high quality genes. Again not my ideal, but it is a crime for such genes not to continue. IQ is at least 60% genetic btw.
    I find abortion horrifying. And the inventor of the Pill feels horrible about his role in ending Western Civilization. He just wanted to help couples!
    I agree that Gays should have rights to inherit, tax breaks etc. But I don’t think they can provide a good family life. So I would agree with you though they are too powerful now to stop I fear. All the Elite have thrown their weight behind them. Why? Three reasons: many of the Elite are gay, they want to lower the population, and they want to crash society – as this will help do. No, I fear we are the ones who will have to retreat. The Churches should accept marriages as a private, non state affair. This would also protect men from the ruinous divorce laws and family courts that seek to help women ruin them.

  314. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 1:52 pm #

    You can’t even write or pronounce His Name properly – so great is your fear and blasphemy. You are Unclean.

  315. Rhino May 30, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

    He underestimates the amount of prejudice against Whites – Vlad
    No actually I don’t. Least of all do I underestimate the prejudice against whites by whites.
    I recently watched a show where celebs had their American roots unearthed via geneological research, looking through birth and marriage records and DNA tests. There were two celebs (well known actors and both of which looked white to me) on this particular show. One of which was unbelieving and really upset that her ancestry as shown via DNA evidence was predominately European white with a bit of other admixture. She was hoping for Amerindian ancestry (not the case) for whatever reason and when faced with the scientific evidence her reaction was “eeeeeuw”.
    I just don’t get people like this. But this is Hollywood for you.

  316. xhalor May 30, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

    Must you always speak like you’re in a Cecil B. DeMille movie?

  317. xhalor May 30, 2012 at 1:58 pm #

    Flavius Josephus. Another one that had a “revelation”. Was it like the revelation that Bush Jr. had when he publicly announced that he “talked to God last night”? So while the rest of the civilised and semi-civilised world’s children are academically leap-frogging ours, we worry about who’s sodomising who and the name of the God they call out when they cum.

  318. Rhino May 30, 2012 at 2:08 pm #

    You’re ahead of me then. I didn’t know he had a revelation. But what about Tacitus? And then there’s the fact of the existence of the whole Christian religion. Did it have a founder? Did it have multiple founders? Yea or nay? Judge for yourself.
    If you want to argue against the idiocy of tearing down the educational system then I’m with you there. There’s NO excuse.
    I’ve seen with my own eyes in university (many years ago) Asians that far, far outclassed others simply because of the sheer quantity of knowledge firehosed into them in their earlier years in school. The rest of us came knee high in terms of mathematical knowledge, general knowledge, scientific knowledge. Didn’t have to be that way.

  319. Zed Leppt In May 30, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    When Jim brought up the topic of utopian societies I thought about “Arcosanti”, an expermint in new urban living established during the 1970s in the high desert north of Pheonix, AZ by architect Paolo Soleri. A deciple of Frank Llyod Wright, he created the term “arcology” to describe his ideal of architecture combined with ecology. His plan was to build a city of 5000 residents living in perfect balance with the environment and create a model for future urban design. Over the past 40 years thousands haved moved to Arcosanti or taken internships there but most moved on. Today, there are about 60 permanent residents and the main source of income for the community is the production of decorative wind bells.
    A haphazard collection of cubes and swooping concrete arcs whose purpose is ambiguous, it looks like new urbanism for dadaists or the remnants of the sets for “Logans Run” occupied by aging hippies. If Soleri’s scheme had come to fruition there would now be massive concentrically arranged concrete arc-shaped living and working stuctures – not particularly ecologigal if you consider the energy needed to make all that cement and truck out into the middle of the desert, but, probably no worse than the suburban sprawl that grew around Pheonix since the 70s.
    Soleri retired recently and Arcosanti lingers on as a curiosity for tourists rather than a mecca for urban designers. Too bad, I’d love to see one of these high-concept communities succeed before the oil needed to build it runs out, despite JHK’s denoucement of such megastructures as unmaintainable in the future. Get some Facebook and Google billionaires to pool their wealth with another crazy visionary architect and maybe they could build something that would even please the hell out of 8man. Private enterprise just sent a rocket to the space station and there are plans for privately funded trips to the asteroid belt and Mars, so why not something equally pie-in-sky here on Earth?
    The NY Times did a story on Arcosanti recently:
    nytimes.com/2012/02/16/garden/an-early-eco-city-faces-the-future.html?pagewanted=all

  320. BeantownBill May 30, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    I’m replying to you, Rhino, to try to make sure you are thinking rationally. It’s really impossible to have a dialogue with someone who is thinking irrationally. So…
    When you are talking about “religion”, I assume you’re talking about Christianity. What about Hinduism, with its many gods? Is that religion invalid, and if so, why? How do we know which god or gods are real?
    If religion is all about how we live our lives and how we treat each other, why do we need a god in order to live well and treat everyone kindly? Aren’t we capable of doing this on our own?
    Religion and science ARE in conflict because they involve themselves in all areas of human experience, including spirituality. Do you think that an atheist scientist who looks at the wide universe can’t feel a sense of spirituality, as do the religious? I can tell you that they do. It’s just that believers and scientists have different reasons for their spirituality.
    Science and religion are at odds over evolution. Religion says God created the universe and all life. Scientists say the universe just happened and life evolved over a long time period. Is not this the same area of human experience – creation – and aren’t the 2 views in conflict?
    My opinion is this: Science and religion are inherently at odds and will not ultimately co-exist. If our civilization collapses, religion will probably gain the upper hand and science will either disappear or be greatly diminished. If we save our civilization from self-destruction, then science will advance to the point where religion beoomes irrelevant. That’s just my opinion.
    Most of the atheists I know don’t ridicule religious believers because they are humanists who think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and everyone should mind their own business. Maybe your experience of atheists is different.

  321. Rhino May 30, 2012 at 2:38 pm #

    When I think of diversity… Asoka
    Nice try. Not when YOU think of diversity but rather the author of what you cut and pasted namely Clementine Lewis in her article in the Fort Hood Sentinel:
    forthoodsentinel.com/story2.php?id=6346
    Also contained the Fort Hood article: 10 ways to celebrate diversity reproduced in part and perverted in Asoka’s post. Shame.

  322. Rhino May 30, 2012 at 2:43 pm #

    So given that in your apparent opinion I’m not thinking rationally a rational discussion is impossible. Right? So I won’t bother responding in any substantive way to your post. There would be no point. Right? Have a nice day.

  323. BeingThere May 30, 2012 at 2:45 pm #

    Superman does a headstand
    What ever happened to “Truth, Justice and the American Way?
    Guess JHK’s new book should have an answer.
    Seems like we were the winners of a world war that vanquished evil and then never won another war again.
    Hmmmm. Guess we took in some of the bad guys and learned that war is a great profit machine for some.
    may 2012–Enter a new theater–just like the others.
    This morning on Morning Joe all attention was on Syria and how we’re going to need to do a humanitarian mission there. Joe Scarborough has been claiming that we should be getting out of Afghanistan and how war weary the American people are, but what’s that I hear in the background–the pounding of the drums of war.
    Strike up the band, boys. Let’s play Wagner…
    That’s right, after $trillions spent on 2 wars since 911, now we’re going to have to kill many more in the Mid East in order to save them.
    The freedom fighter George W. has reared his little head up from obscurity recently and I couldn’t help but notice the praise he got for believing in spreading freedom in the world–just in time for this little opus.
    It’s time to remake the middle east in our image for the corporations and flatten the world. Now for something completely different(not). Think the voters will notice?
    Mr. Right Romney has the neocons backing him while the trilateral Zbigniew thinks it might not be a good idea.
    Webster Tarpely makes another interesting parallel to Germany’s move to start the war with Poland in his interview on Tarpley .net
    [The Houla Massacre: A War Provocation by the NATO Death Squads in the Tradition of Himmler’s Gleiwitz Operation of August 1939, Designed to Flip Eager Lion 2012 into Aggressive War Against Syria]
    All I can glean from this is that we might just be entering into a new phase of the cold war. Can Russia and China keep blocking our next move.

  324. John Howard May 30, 2012 at 2:45 pm #

    Yeah, well I wouldn’t expect racist eugenicists to support my proposal. It is intended to stop neo-eugenics, which is morally repugnant for all the reasons racism is, and more, such as being unsustainable and wasteful at a time when we need to save money and resources for existing people, and it makes people into materialist products with no human dignity or equality or liberty.
    No I’m not Catholic, they drive me crazy because they don’t actually want to prohibit the stuff they claim to be against. I’m a scientific determinist Jonathan Edwards Calvinist Protestant Creationist.

  325. BeantownBill May 30, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

    I never said that. I said I couldn’t have a dialogue with someone who is irrational. I never said you were. Don’t get so defensive – I’m sorry if you felt that way. I just want to see your response, that’s all.

  326. anti soak May 30, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    ‘thousand of gun related killings every year’..YES
    20,000?
    50,000 from vehicular s.
    50,000 from painkillers.
    Suicides = How many?

  327. Zed Leppt In May 30, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

    Another highly ambitious utopian community I heard about recently is Fordlandia. This was Henry Ford’s idea to plonk a small midwestern American company town into the middle of the Amazon rain forest and create a rubber plantation to supply his own raw material for tires. The British held a monopoly on rubber in the 1920s and Henry didn’t like being dependent upon outside suppliers. The plantation failed because growing rubber trees as a monocrop created an incubator for diseases that killed the trees.
    But the town itself failed due to Ford’s attempt to impose his own conservative values on the locals who made up the majority of the population.
    He thought he would improve their lives by forcing them to live just like his workers in Michigan, ie. adopting an American diet and giving up salsa for square dancing. There were several worker revolts against the regimented lifestyle before the whole enterprise was abandonned as a total loss.
    NPR did story on a book about Fordlandia here:
    npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105068620

  328. xhalor May 30, 2012 at 3:26 pm #

    So typical, Bill. As time marches on, their position becomes less and less defensible. They hate running into people like me. I’m one of the atheists that DOES ridicule the “True Believers”. I say belief in a god is the single DUMBEST thing humans have ever done, and we’re still doing it. I’ll bet they don’t get the number of death threats that I get. From ALL faiths. Now that the “working for a living” model is going away, I wonder how much unemployment slack is being taken up by people employed in a “religious” capacity.

  329. Zed Leppt In May 30, 2012 at 3:37 pm #

    James,
    Explain this please:
    wjltevansville.com/kunstfest-kunstfest-kunstfest/
    Kunstfest in the town New Harmony, Indiana, originally a religious commune settled in the early 19th century by followers of George Rapp. Money and marriage were banned and celibacy encouraged as puification for the imminent second coming of Christ.
    Weren’t you just in Indiana? And what are you really up to on that farm of yours?

  330. xhalor May 30, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

    “And what are you really up to on that farm of yours?”
    Weed.

  331. BeantownBill May 30, 2012 at 4:24 pm #

    Now that we’ve fought so many wars recently, do you think we have the will and ability to fight more? I know TPTB want to, but I wonder if the American public does.
    My biggest concern is that one day soon we’ll wake up in the morning and find that our country had gone away in the night, taken over by a government which has decided it no longer has to pretend it’s a democracy. It can happen that quickly, like a sudden bank holiday.

  332. xhalor May 30, 2012 at 4:28 pm #

    Isn’t that how it always happens?

  333. BeantownBill May 30, 2012 at 4:34 pm #

    In times of old (when knights were bold) belief in some kind of God probably made sense given the state of mankind’s knowledge. Today, it’s an other story.
    Imagine believing in a god watching over you, and then someone telling you that’s not true, and arguing this very logically. Say it ain’t so, Joe. You might not be able to face up to the idea; you might get very afraid thinking it could be true. In your fear you might respond like a typical human does when he’s afraid: agressively and violently. Better to keep your mouth shut and not provoke anyone.

  334. BeantownBill May 30, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    Yeah, a lot of times. Think of September 1, 1939 or June 22, 1941, or November 22, 1963 as a few examples.

  335. xhalor May 30, 2012 at 5:12 pm #

    “Better to keep your mouth shut and not provoke anyone.”
    LAST TRAIN LEAVING FOR ZAPFENDORF! ALL ABOARD!
    Fuck ’em.

  336. BeingThere May 30, 2012 at 5:27 pm #

    Bean,
    The inverted totalitarianism is working very well for them still, but Dylan Ratigan said today that the Billionaires are getting the govt. to do nothing about any of the problems that ail this country and keep the money and resources flowing to them, instead.
    He continued that our systems are unsustainable so they are doing this until this whole thing crashes.

  337. Laura Louzader May 30, 2012 at 5:37 pm #

    Rhino, I’m sure Clinton didn’t really give a damn about reproductive rights but he did support them and veto anti-choice legislation.
    I don’t care how a politician “feels”, I care what legislation s/he supports or opposes.

  338. BeingThere May 30, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

    Bean
    One more thing, I forgot to mention. When Cheney was interviewed a few years ago, it was said the American people didn’t want more war and he said….”So?”
    That’s how they feel about the will of the people.
    All they need us for is the show pony elections to prove to the world that we’re a democracy.
    The way things are going we’re going to need the UN to monitor our elections.

  339. BeantownBill May 30, 2012 at 6:14 pm #

    They are playing us for suckers. Should we just sit back and let ourselves get repeatedly kicked in the face? Or should we go for the gusto and try to live it up until TSHTF? I don’t know about you, but I’m 67 years old, and I don’t hanker to save everything I can to hide somewhere and subsist on my supplies, all the while being afraid that someone will steal, take or confiscate everything I have when they find out I exist.
    So the big asteroid is on a collision course with Earth and we all have a week to live. Do we dig a hole and hope we can survive, or do we party like hell, live it up and go out with a bang?
    You live in NYC, and I live 10 miles outside Boston, not the ideal places to make a stand.

  340. Buck Stud May 30, 2012 at 6:29 pm #

    If you had read his posts carefully, you would know Vlad is not a white supremacist. Vlad is a white separtist. Vlad believes in treating Blacks civilly, cordially, and having as little contact as is possible.

    I’m surprised you agree with such a lame distinction. The reason an individual or a group wants to be separate/segregated from another is because they consider themselves “superior”. Put another way, Vlad does not want to soil and stain the purity of the white race with what he considers inferior stock. And no, this is not a issue of idiosyncratic variety; unless, of course you want to argue that people do not inherently covet “The Good” or that which is most beneficial for them.
    Perhaps your Magnanimity Theatrics has short-circuited your powers of reason.

  341. BeingThere May 30, 2012 at 6:29 pm #

    Bean,
    I’m not so young anymore-I had a great childhood and good life. I can remember the many options we had to save and build money, leave jobs for better ones and make satisfying choices that led to better outcomes on all levels of life.
    I feel sorry for the kids with huge debt leaving colleges only to either not find any jobs or having to work as unpaid interns.
    –Hey that’s what the job CRE-A-TORS dreamed up.
    When society can’t use it’s human resources, especially the young and educated, you know it’s over.
    I do what I can to enjoy my life. That doesn’t mean I have to be clueless. If I’m on ground zero so be it.

  342. dale May 30, 2012 at 7:10 pm #

    You can’t even write or pronounce His Name properly – so great is your fear and blasphemy. You are Unclean.
    —————————–
    Vald, it’s so hard to take you seriously, I don’t even believe YOU take you seriously.

  343. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    So? What your big idea – force Whites to breed with Black via Federal Decree? Whites who do so are spitting in the face of their ancestors and denying a future to their Race.

  344. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 8:04 pm #

    John Edwards and the Puritans considered themselves to be Israelites and thus vastly superior to the Indians. They were seen as demons or at best, Phillistines. Thus our Race was preserved on these shores – unlike the French to the North and the Spanish to the South. Only later when Christians began to try to actually live the Gospel did our Race come into danger. The mythic Judaism of the Puritans protected them as had the isolation of Europe in earlier centuries. Now there is nothing at all and Chrisitianity has no provision to protect us in the West.
    The Orthodox have National Churches so that’s at least a start. Western Christianity is completely and mindlessly universal.

  345. welles May 30, 2012 at 8:16 pm #

    white race, black race, mixed race….
    it’s all gone severely downhill in the U.S. and A.
    very sad to see the end of a once fairly great nation.
    in other news, plenty of nice places left to live.
    do your own research, past national/cultural performance is not a guarantee of future results.
    there’s a whole world of experiences waiting for you, go get ’em.
    peace peaceniks

  346. Pucker May 30, 2012 at 9:00 pm #

    JHK wrote: “I dropped by a religious cult commune in the next town over on Saturday.”
    youtube.com/watch?v=aTOuo837nX0&feature=related

  347. Bassora May 30, 2012 at 9:00 pm #

    Fascinating article. Couple of quick observations.
    1) Don’t knock yard sales (rummage sales, garage sales, whatever your area calls it). Amongst the junk and items that should have immediately gone into the trash are serious finds. I have procured wonderful garden tools, furniture, model train parts, and art supplies (most U.S.A. made).
    2) I could go into a tirade about mainstream religion. Before you think of me as one of those hellbound atheists I am a licensed minister who works with a mainstream religion. Recently I visited a city that had members of a comunity where the women wore white head coverings, many of the men had beards, and the children were well-behaved. Before we all go ballistic that it is “cult-like” or lost in another century here are some additional characteristics: some of the men had the phone pieces hooked to their ears so not to miss an important call, children were drinking what use to be a normal-sized soda, a couple of the women wore jeans, and one of the men drove a very fine modern pick-up truck. Guess what? I think they have the right idea; they use what feels right for their lives but don’t force feed it to everyone else. Certain mainstream religions could take a lesson from this attitude.

  348. Pucker May 30, 2012 at 9:09 pm #

    Jim Jones: “American bananas are nothin like these. Mmmmm….Mmmm….Mmmm!”
    youtube.com/watch?v=aTOuo837nX0&feature=related

  349. xhalor May 30, 2012 at 9:28 pm #

    “Guess what? I think they have the right idea”
    Guess what? They have the WRONG idea. How many people are waiting for The Rapture to wash all the sins away. I can see them hunkered down, fists clenched, eyes closed and grimacing mightily. When they open their eyes, guess what? You’re still here, idiot. When you strip away the robes, incense, and colorful elocation, we will do what we always have done. Rely on each other.

  350. Tark May 30, 2012 at 9:50 pm #

    So what’s it to you? If you don’t wish to think of yourself as separate and distinct from blacks, what-have-you, then don’t, but mind your own business when others do. Don’t lead or follow, just get out of the way.
    This blog is so full of truly old men set in their ways, and men who are old before their time, and lack the courage and the capacity to feel or believe anything but the half-truths that have been fed to them.
    You’re simply too gutless to consider any other viewpoints because then you would have to admit that you were wrong for a large chunk of your lives.
    You’re included in that CharlieTrots.

  351. xhalor May 30, 2012 at 9:52 pm #

    Hoosiers in action. I’m going there in a few days.
    I’m so excited.

  352. progress2conserve May 30, 2012 at 11:12 pm #

    Very nice response, O3. Let me dissect it.
    “You might want to consult wardoc on the utility of religion in times of life-or-death desperation. If your particular religion be based on life-taking, that might come in handy…” -ozone-
    I’d like to hear from Wardoc on that question!
    I know that men are men, and inherently weak in the face of severe stress. I suspect religion takes some of the rough edges off – but by no means does it take the greed and violence out of humans and the human experience.
    That said, several of my forebears stood the absolute worst of life-or-death with their religion intact, vigorous, justified, and even glorified.
    “If your religion is based on life-taking…”
    -ozone-
    Ozone, based on my own real world dealings with men and women who have killed their fellow humans for various reasons – I don’t think taking a human life is all that hard, nor does it require religion to justify it.
    “I hadn’t thought much about it, but is there such a thing as neutral law enforcement?”
    -ozone-
    Ozone, there is supposed to be EXACTLY such a thing as neutral law enforcement. For the most part, professional law enforcement has worked very hard to ACTUALLY BE neutral, since the 1960’s.
    That’s part of why they Zimmerman/Martin thing has the ability to spark some unexpected push-back among the LE community. If not the upcoming/potential Zimmerman riots, something eventually will spark push-back.
    And as regards your link form the guy at the CA ag inspection station – – – Ozone, dude – those stations existed back in the very early ’60’s, because I went through them, then.
    American society has always tended to follow the rules, at least since 1865, your smart-ass in CA with the video camera notwithstanding.
    Maybe the growing wave of non-assimilating Muslims, Mexicans, Somalis, and others is all about God turning all – ALL – of us back into Rebels – yet again.
    Since 1863 was so pleasant, and worked out so well, and all.

  353. Bustin J May 30, 2012 at 11:23 pm #

    LL said “Even if you can conceive, your child is more likely to have crippling defects that don’t prevent him from being born, just visit him with terrible health and developmental problems- look at Karen Santorum and her unfortunate 3-year old child with Trisomy 18, which happens mostly to babies born of older mothers. ”
    Lets not get too abstract. The “increased risk” doubles or triples- to 2 or 3 in 10,000. Still great odds. And Mrs. Santorum could have easily screened for trisomy, but she was probably of the mind to have the thing regardless, after all theres nothing ‘unfortunate’ about a “blessing”.
    Older moms have a lot more to offer, generally.

  354. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 11:25 pm #

    activistpost.com/2012/05/is-root-of-evil-psychopathic-mind.html
    A simple MRI scan could detect Psychopathology and thus enable us to screen psychopaths out of positions of power.

  355. Vlad Krandz May 30, 2012 at 11:29 pm #

    See how well Blacks will respect our rights once we are a minority.
    amren.com/news/2012/05/superintendent-school-board-totally-out-of-control/

  356. progress2conserve May 30, 2012 at 11:29 pm #

    “So given that in your apparent opinion I’m not thinking rationally a rational discussion is impossible. ” -rhino, to btb
    Nice answer, Rhino. Bill phrased the question so that he could not POSSIBLY be wrong. To even engage him about spirituality proves me irrational.
    Then he will invoke the “one response rule.”(tm BTB)
    Thus will he win all debates in his own mind, without saying a word.
    That Demitri Orlov link that Ozone posted is well worth a read, Bill et al. Religion is out there waiting for us humans, no matter how “rational” we try to pretend we always are.
    For my own part, I haven’t been in a kill-zone, like wardoc. And I don’t want to go.
    But I caught the tail-end of my grandparent’s generation’s lives. They wrested a living out of the hard Georgia clay. They accepted the privations and heartbreaks. They worked together as a community to overcome the worst.
    They could not have done it.
    They would not have been able to do it –
    Without the community of Faith, provided by the little Baptist Church, just up the road, within walking distance of their lives and farms.
    Those who arrogantly write off Faith, sow the wind.
    I fear we may all soon reap the whirlwind.

  357. Buck Stud May 30, 2012 at 11:43 pm #

    Not surprisingly, you completely miss the point. The point being that Vlad is not espousing separatism, but supremacy – even if he seeks to obfuscate his true belief . And by the way – since you seem to have a problem comprehending the written word – I was not expressing a moral opinion regarding anyone’s right to consider themselves superior.
    After all, I’m pretty sure – from the looks of your tepid posts – that I’m quite superior to you and not by a little bit.
    And one more thing Tark. Drop the macho bravado – “because I can guarantee you, you sonofawhore, that you couldn’t back it up in person ” – as it only solidifies the perception that you’re a dumb ass and a punk.
    In fact, you – none of us – have any good idea who their calling a “sonofawhore”. You just might be yelping at a Pa Qua adept who is expert at snapping necks or a BJJ cracker who will choke you out with a smile.

  358. xhalor May 30, 2012 at 11:43 pm #

    “Older moms have a lot more to offer, generally.”
    Except viable ovum. I caught my sperm out panhandling in a wheelchair. Fuckin’ fakes.
    Don’t……..ask me how I know this.

  359. Bustin J May 30, 2012 at 11:44 pm #

    LL also bleated “Just as bad, your children might not get to even have you around. Your children not only need you when they’re still children, but when they’re having their own children and getting started on adult life. For this reason, it is not good for either women or men over the age of 40 to breed.”
    See, you’re beating the drumbeat of fear that has women all over this great land ready and willing to go full term with the accidental pregnancy regardless of the sperm source. Because thats the net effect. The idea that 40 is too old is not supportable.
    A better metric is overall health. Life expectancy is marching into the 80s. Grandma and Grandpa are still going to be around.
    The crisis right now is the fact DIVORCE, never getting married in the first place, choosing a poor mate, choosing to go full term before maturity, being an unhealthy wankette before, during, and after pregnancy, and finally, living in a society which has no worthwhile traditions.
    “I would want my kids to grow up with both their dad and their mom, and I’d like any grandchildren to have Grandma and Grandpa. ”
    So have some fucking kids, you’re only 45 lady.

  360. Bustin J May 30, 2012 at 11:54 pm #

    I suppose 45 might be pushing it. But who knows. A combination of cloning technology and stem cells.
    Perhaps the best course of action is cryopreservation of embryos when a chick is still a chicklet.

  361. Buck Stud May 30, 2012 at 11:56 pm #

    Can’t you just admit that the logical impetus for white separatism is actually a belief in supremacy? And I have to say, how disappointing that you of all people – so previously honest and open regarding your beliefs – have resorted to peeking around some false distinction in order to compassionate the true jagged edges of your racist inclinations.

  362. xhalor May 31, 2012 at 12:03 am #

    “I suppose 45 might be pushing it.”
    So. You’re 45 and you have a new born autistic boy. I hope you have been taking good care of yourself. You’re going to need the energy.
    Given the state of our health care system, are you ready to roll the dice?
    Or perhaps Mr. PureEggandSperm (John Howard) would like to interject here.

  363. xhalor May 31, 2012 at 12:07 am #

    “Those who arrogantly write off Faith, sow the wind.”
    I have faith in the Dodgers. Does that count?

  364. jichewno7 May 31, 2012 at 12:12 am #

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    Posted in Travel Guide | No Comments »

  365. xhalor May 31, 2012 at 12:13 am #

    The Poles have invaded!!

  366. progress2conserve May 31, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    “I have faith in the Dodgers. Does that count?”
    -x-
    X, as long as the power stays on and the food trucks keep running – I think an American can have Faith in Almost Anything, and not be proven wrong.
    When those two conditions are no longer met –
    You might want to have Faith in Something More Substantial.
    Lest ye die, and not live.

  367. xhalor May 31, 2012 at 12:28 am #

    “Ozone, there is supposed to be EXACTLY such a thing as neutral law enforcement.”
    This reminds me of a recent Assokie post where he/she lamented about the state of the Afghanistan police (that the US is paying a buttload of money for). Apparently, they are involved in drug dealing, prostitution, extortion, etc.
    Well DUH! Whose cops aren’t?

  368. xhalor May 31, 2012 at 12:34 am #

    “You might want to have Faith in Something More Substantial.”
    All right, all right…goddamn it.
    Sigh…
    I have faith in the Yankees.
    There. I said it.
    Bastard.

  369. asoka. May 31, 2012 at 12:57 am #

    The reason an individual or a group wants to be separate/segregated from another is because they consider themselves “superior”. Put another way, Vlad does not want to soil and stain the purity of the white race with what he considers inferior stock.

    This is not my understanding of Vlad’s position. Perhaps you are right and I am wrong. Here is my understanding: Vlad says whites are superior to Blacks but inferior to Asians (according to what he says about IQ scores), but he doesn’t want to mix with either group. He doesn’t want race mixing period, whether with inferior or superior groups.
    That is why I say Vlad is a white separatist, not a white supremacist. Either way he is a self-admitted racist. As Vlad retorts: “You say that as if it’s a bad thing.”
    I am a racist also and not proud of it. I do say it as if it’s a bad thing and I continue to work on my attitudes toward whites in general. Most whites are decent people, just like most people of all races are.
    I do not feel a need to work on my attitude toward those morally-challenged whites who dropped atomic bombs on civilian populations.
    I do not feel a need to work on my attitude toward those morally-challenged whites who outright excuse, or try to muddy the issue with excuses, when it comes to mass murder of innocents.
    I don’t think my condemnation of those particular whites that makes me a racist. That makes me human.

  370. asoka. May 31, 2012 at 1:15 am #

    But while Cook’s secrecy about product development is in keeping with the path laid out by his predecessor, the late Steve Jobs, he did make one notable divergence from that legacy, saying Apple would be more transparent than in the past about issues related to social change, including labor rights in China, for which Apple has faced ongoing scrutiny.
    Cook also said he hoped more components for Apple products would be made in the USA

  371. asoka. May 31, 2012 at 1:19 am #

    I feel a need to say something about my unusual silence on the God talk discussion above.
    Whether or not God or Jesus exists, whether or not someone believes in their existence, is really of little importance.
    That is why I’m am not arguing for or against one side or the other. It just doesn’t matter.
    God is irrelevant, a completely unnecessary hypothesis.

  372. anti soak May 31, 2012 at 1:27 am #

    ‘The reason an individual or a group wants to be separate/segregated from another is because they consider themselves “superior”.’
    [WHAT GROUP CONSIDERS THEMSELVES INFERIOR?]
    Joiners find what they think superior and, ergo, join.
    Say whatever you please here. Dont let some nameless, faceless person shout you down.

  373. anti soak May 31, 2012 at 1:33 am #

    Eve Longoria found her own Minority Status challenged, as it was a minority [30%] of her DNA.
    Maybe she wont be on Obamas brown team.
    See TakiMag for more info.

  374. pandatour May 31, 2012 at 1:37 am #

    The emergency in the euro zone has beatific shocks apt the United States amongst commerce and financial channels,given the important cross-Atlantic economic linkage, U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke mentioned Wednesday.

    “The European Union accounts for roughly one-fifth of U.S. exports of merchandise and services The U.S. exports to Europe over the past two annuals accept underperformed our exports apt the recess of the earth Bernanke mentioned among a testimony onward the House Committee aboard Oversight and Government Reform.

    “In addition, weaker demand from Europe has slowed growth among additional economies, which has likewise bargain emigrant demand as our products he joined.

    Bernanke noted namely besides business financial strains surrounded Europe accept also shown through to U.S. financial markets. Although the U.S. financial firms and monetary mall asset accept had period to accommodate their exposures and hedge their risks to some caste for the European situation has evolved the risks of contagion remain a concern, he said.

    Bernanke accent the actions taken according European policymakers, saying is they aided dwindle financial stresses in Europe amid the past few months and contributed to an amended tone of financial markets around the world including the United States.

    “However,Beijing hutong tour, Europe’s financial and economic situation remains complicated and it namely critical namely the European chairmen emulate through aboard their policy commitments to assure a lasting stabilization,” Bernanke stressed.

    He mentioned the Federal Reserve would continue to monitor the situation carefully and be ready to assistance balance U.S. markets if it were not for.

    U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, who also testified along the council repeated is it is among the interest of the United States is the International Monetary Fund (IMF) is capable apt continue apt play a constructive character amid Europe.

    However, IMF resources cannot acting as a strong European response, he joined.

  375. Widespreadpanic7 May 31, 2012 at 1:43 am #

    Anybody watch ‘Hatfields & McCoys’ on the history Channel, a story of long ago on the Kentucky-W Virginia border, when Colts and Winchesters ruled the day, and Whitey still had a pair …
    –WSP7

  376. xhalor May 31, 2012 at 1:48 am #

    “…and Whitey still had a pair …”
    Had a pair of what? Brain cells?

  377. Voight-Kampff May 31, 2012 at 2:09 am #

    A link, a link, link-link-link, “A” link.
    403 ban imminent
    lINK
    ?

  378. xhalor May 31, 2012 at 2:13 am #

    Not necessary. I’ll ban myself.
    Say “Good Night”, Dick.

  379. Voight-Kampff May 31, 2012 at 2:16 am #

    spam avoidance words here
    beliefinunseen.blogspot.com/2008/01/patience-is-mother-of-all-virtues.html
    [held for review]

  380. Voight-Kampff May 31, 2012 at 2:24 am #

    Call me Richard, if you please.

  381. Voight-Kampff May 31, 2012 at 2:35 am #

    ?
    ?>?

  382. Laura Louzader May 31, 2012 at 3:10 am #

    Bustin, babe, I’m glad you think I’m only 45. Wish I were.
    But I never wanted kids and had my tubes tied at 28. Best decision I ever made. Saved me a lot of worry and hassle in subsequent years and I never regretted it for one moment. By your late 20s, you usually know whether you want children or not, and I had decided against it for many reasons, the chief of which is that I am a selfish, self-indulgent, self-protective, risk-averse, self-absorbed bitch who likes to sleep late in the mornings and spend lazy days buried in a book or music.
    I’m merely stating that if you want children, it’s best to do it at the optimal time. Yes, plenty of women have children into their 40s, but it is much more difficult and requires a lot more rest and medical care. According to my doctor, nearly every woman who carries a child over age 40 develops pregnancy-onset diabetes. And while lifespans may be longer than in the past, we have no assurance that they will continue to be so, especially in an age of resource depletion with its attendant wide-spread poverty and loss of the comforts and medical care that have made these long lifespans possible.
    In fact, it appears to me that we also live in the era of Peak Lifespans, and when we have the benefit of the rearview mirror, we will see that the generation born between 1900 and 1920 (my grandparents’ generation) will have been the longest-lived ever, with each successor generation dying sooner.

  383. Vlad Krandz May 31, 2012 at 3:16 am #

    w

  384. Vlad Krandz May 31, 2012 at 3:36 am #

    Are you a replicant? I just Remembered!

  385. Vlad Krandz May 31, 2012 at 3:58 am #

    Do I or do I not think IQ is important? And that the IQ tests can measure this important quality? I do, yes? So for the millionth time (try to retain it this time, try, try, try), I admit that East Asians score higher and that the Ashkenazi Jews score higher still. So how can I be a stone cold Supremacist?
    A man gets old when you stops learning. He stops learning when he stops being interested in new things. Can you get out of your head and try to understand something new? Our paradigm is a sophisticated one – more than your fantasy of equality, easily so. And yes, some WN’s have fantasies about ruling everyone or wiping everyone out. Very hubristic, ugly, immmoral, impractical, and dangerous – just confirming the truth of the propaganda about us.
    Once you get it, you may find value in it. Most of the World thinks like I do at best – or worse, as you think I think – raw ethnic supremacism. In any case, Whites are hardly the only ones by a long shot. That’s a big liberal lie. If you learn the paradigm you’ll see with new eyes and realize that Whites are the least racist people on Earth. Stupidly so, suididely so.
    From another angle: you are being very objective and idealistic though you don’t know it and probably have an aversion to it. Isn’t the best country on Earth your own? That’s how most people think – even if they know it’s not objectively true. You have lost the subjective. You think yourself superior to people who are just being natural – many of whom are capable of objectivity but aren’t stuck there like you. Same thing with race – my race is the best because it’s mine. Simple, natural, subjective – and important for these reasons. Objectively true? Not in terms of IQ obviously. But in other ways, we are superb. But what’s the sense of talking about this subject if you can’t get the preliminary distinctions? Or even trust us enough to try and understand – which means being humble enough to admit you may have been wrong in jumping to false conclusions?
    The Subjective makes a shadowy appearance though when people invert the “best” and claim America is the worst country on Earth. That’s just as subjective but no longer healthy. Nor is it true as Rhino always points out. Obviously though, we are getting worse rapidly – and neither the protestors nor the blind patriots are helping but rather only reinforcing each other’s conditioning.

  386. asoka. May 31, 2012 at 8:46 am #

    You are fighting against history and have already lost. The future is neither Black nor white … the future belongs to non-white and non-black peoples.

  387. charliefoxtrot May 31, 2012 at 9:33 am #

    “perhaps your Magnanimity Theatrics has short-circuited your powers of reason”
    GUFFAW!!! Wow! …and we have a winner…! this^ stands as the absolute pinnacle of the wit and wither that i have stuck around to witness…well done, sir; my hat must be considered doffed in appreciation and respect…and if we were all at a party or something, i d probably bow and scrape a little, too

  388. Mrs. Soake May 31, 2012 at 9:51 am #

    How about just giving us all some “unusual silence”?
    About everything?
    You’re absolutely right that your opinion doesn’t matter.
    Or do I have to go upside your head again?…
    Mrs. Soake

  389. charliefoxtrot May 31, 2012 at 10:02 am #

    he s yelping at a third- degree black belt in vulcan gungfu. Who has trained in MMA since ’90, starting with terrell williams- who was university of missouri at columbia’s first black all-american wrestler; he was a golden gloves boxer; and is an nth degree black belt in karate…one of the pioneers of MMA in the FUS…so i don t give a flying fuck in a windstorm what the cocksmoker says; if we WERE all at that party, i d have long ago frog-marched him out the side door and, to borrow an expression from my favorite author, read to him from the book- while i scrubbed the deck with him, so to speak…ya know…

  390. bossier22 May 31, 2012 at 10:13 am #

    Sadly,you are probably right.

  391. asoka. May 31, 2012 at 10:23 am #

    Thanks for continuing to make CFN all about Asoka. Would you prefer I just leave CFN and never post again? Why or why not?

  392. asoka. May 31, 2012 at 10:34 am #

    I know I am right.
    The difference between me and Vlad is that I am happy to live among brown, red, and yellow peoples whereas Vlad wants his own fantastic (in the worst sense of the word) white nation. I can really relate to Welles’ posts about Brazil and the beauty of so many shades of brown making black/white rivalry irrelevant, quaint, and idiotic.

  393. anti soak May 31, 2012 at 10:37 am #

    I am glad you have crystal balls, Sri Asoka.
    Continue to post, under your several ‘handles’. Cheers!!!

  394. anti soak May 31, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    Think of the billions of dollars wasted promoting the Myth of Equality. Bell Curve noted this in talking about Govt enforced quotas and AA.
    Do you Sir Vlad own a business?
    I think I saw something posted elsewhere that you did?
    Just wondering as it would make BS quote untrue.
    [‘Moreover, my post about Vlad’s economic station in life was not a put down, but a question based on his own declarations of a lowly economic status.’]

  395. bossier22 May 31, 2012 at 10:50 am #

    I can relate to Vlads view of less diverse societies. I can see beauty in the orderly societies of say japan or norway. nevertheless, your brown world is the future if we survive. i think the long emergency will see enclaves of
    different races, religious groups and other like minded groups form to weather the coming troubles. some will get along with each other some will not. the geographic break up of the u.s. is also a posibility/ probability.

  396. bossier22 May 31, 2012 at 11:26 am #

    Even for thoughs who think diversity is a good thing, keep in mind that you can get too much of a good thing. Including diversity, democracy and capitalism.

  397. asoka. May 31, 2012 at 11:34 am #

    Namasté, antisoka.

  398. Rhino May 31, 2012 at 11:38 am #

    I am a racist also and not proud of it. – asoka
    You have a lot to not be proud of.
    You cling to this imbecilic screed about morally challenged whites. Yet not a peep about horrors inflicted by people of other races. Not a peep about Japanese atrocities inflicted on the peoples they conquered in the 1930s/1940s, the millions the Japanese army killed, no thundering denunciations of Mao for the millions his rotten regime killed. I could go on and on.
    You still haven’t told us what you would have done had you had been in Harry Truman’s shoes.
    Should we conclude therefore that you are a poster boy for the much talked about degradation of American educational standards ie the apparent inability to read, the apparent inability to analyze, the apparent inability or maybe unwillingness to dispassionately examine varying types of evidence, varying trains of thought, to apply reasoned and reasonable judgement?
    And then there’s the apparently mindless parrotting of stale, decades old talking points (still very much in fashion on college campuses) which during the Cold War so delighted the murderers in the Kremlin and Beijing who thought of these parrots as nothing more than useful idiots. Is that you Asoka?
    Could it be that you have no real idea of what went on in WW2, no real idea of what events led up to the dropping of the atom bombs, no real idea of what possible courses of action Truman might have taken (even after I suggested several to you)? Could it be that you’re just a blind ideologue?

  399. lsjogren May 31, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    Hey, maybe I get my crack at immortality.
    I was thinking about how mankind’s food supply is produced by fossil fuels and how most of the human race will die off once fossil fuels become scarce, because the amount of food that can be produced sustainably will prove to be only a fraction of what is needed to feed the current global population.
    It occurred to me that a word that defines modern man in terms of his diet:
    oilivore

  400. Vlad Krandz May 31, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    So all that crap about diversity was just Marxist trickery then? People you’ve been played.
    Oh and if you believe in Brotherhood, why the rush to judgement against Zimmerman in favor of Treyvon? Seems like ethnic animosity to me. Is the discipline of ahimsa only for Whites then? And Blacks can do whatever they want – and get way with it by calling their victims “White”? And how does that lead to the Brotherhood you claim you want?
    And for all you who love Hispanics, how do you like the deafening silence on their part? Nice how they throw their own to the wolves for the sake of Political Correctness. But make no mistake, they intend to take the Southwest and as much of America as we are weak enought to give them. And Blacks will get crushed in the process. It’s already started if you care to look.

  401. Vlad Krandz May 31, 2012 at 12:22 pm #

    Check out Ward Kendall’s “Hold Back the Day”. Science Fiction about a world where Asoka and his Kind have triumphed and everyone is officially equal – but Whites are treated as scum and almost extinct. A few Whites seek Freedom by reviving the old technology and leaving Earth. I wont ruin it for you by going on.
    What is going on is genocide by the U.N’s definition. Needless to say, they don’t give a shit. We are on our own and most of what we have to do in the next few decades will be futile objectively speaking. The real purpose will be to prove to the Unawakened that we have lost our rights and soon to lose our existence. Once that is accomplished, perhaps we can make a strike for Freedom – which is never granted but taken.

  402. Vlad Krandz May 31, 2012 at 12:27 pm #

    No I’m poor as a church mouse. Let’s not save Buck and Dale from hating on me because of it despite their concern for the poor. Or is their concern only for the non White poor? And if so, why?
    I have some assets: house, bank account etc. But the steet looms unless I begin to generate some cash flow.

  403. bossier22 May 31, 2012 at 12:28 pm #

    read hold back this day on kindle. very interesting.
    I guess self inflicted genocide does not count at the u.n.

  404. asoka. May 31, 2012 at 12:54 pm #

    You still haven’t told us what you would have done had you had been in Harry Truman’s shoes.
    Yes, I did, weeks ago… and I was very specific.
    Apparently you didn’t like my answer, so you disregarded it. That’s OK, we are not going to agree, and I’m fine with that.
    You earn your own karma and live with the consequences.
    Look at this country now at Ponzi’s End, what the “greatest generation” made possible by murdering innocents in Japanese cities.

  405. 6qcmujzni1q0 May 31, 2012 at 1:06 pm #

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  406. sotolvision May 31, 2012 at 1:06 pm #

    Thanx, JK reader Laura Louzader (see reader’s comment above @11:18am this morning), I usually read both Jim’s rants and also Jim’s readers’ comments, and found yours to be particularly well