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Mismanaging Contraction

     Lesson of the Macondo:  Blowout preventers don’t prevent blowouts. This comes as a shock to people attuned to the on-schedule arrival of techno-miracles. Now, all the acronym-studded invocations of techno-mastery by men wearing interesting hats will not avail to put the schnitz on an epic horror show in the Gulf of Mexico. 
     President Obama’s speech to the nation a week ago was designed as a kind of blowout preventer for the legitimacy of the federal government. It did little to stop the hemorrhaging of confidence in political leadership.  A nation foundering in a crippled vessel in the horse latitudes of collective purpose on a sea of red ink looks to its captain – who puffs a few platitudes into the tattered sails and retreats belowdecks to pace and stew. This is a society truly lost at sea, where even the friendly dolphins are turning belly-up and the dying seabirds stare accusingly under their cloaks of crude oil. The feeling grows that we can’t do anything right. Will someone please turn off the TV?
     In 2008, the voters turned to a lanky newcomer from Illinois to rescue itself from just the sort of technocrat jerkoffs who had run the nation into a ditch with their invocations of “mission accomplished” and “Good job, Brownie.” Change was in the air. Alas, consistent with the apparent fact that history rhymes but doesn’t repeat, Barack Obama proved to be the reincarnation of Millard Fillmore, not Abe Lincoln. Sometimes history works in free verse and this stanza was off by a few syllables. It turns out that change was exactly the one thing not really in the air. America does not want change, except from the cash register at WalMart. 
     The last time America faced a convulsion as profound as the present one was the late 1850s. The internal contradiction of slavery was driving the nation crazy. The Whig party had been running things for a couple of decades. The Whigs were the party of Daniel Webster and Henry Clay. They tried everything possible to finesse the expansion of US territory around the inflammatory issue of slavery. Fillmore came along just in time for the Compromise of 1850, which was intended to settle things and did absolutely nothing to settle things. By the time the election of 1852 happened, Both Webster and Clay were old men preparing to meet their maker and the Whig party absolutely fell apart. Scroll forward a few years and we’re in the slaughterhouse of The Civil War.
     A hundred and sixty years later now, and the USA faces a new and very different set of internal contradictions. We’ve ramped up a living arrangement that has no future, just as slavery had no future. We’re uncomfortable with the mandates of reality, which is trying to tell us we have to live differently. The American people don’t want to hear this. The president doesn’t want to tell them. It’s possible that he is not tuned into the reality radio station that is broadcasting its mandates. You’d think the Macondo Blowout horror show was coming across loud and clear. 
      Right after President Obama gave his vapid speech last week, he traveled to Ohio to brag about how much federal stimulus money was going into “shovel-ready” highway projects there. I sincerely believe that the last thing we need right now in this country is more and better highways. Every president since Jimmy Carter has acknowledged that there’s a problem with our extreme oil dependency, but none of them have made the short leap to understand that we have a more fundamental problem with car dependency. Someone paying attention to the mandates of reality would get the choo-choo trains running from Dayton to Columbus to Cincinnati to Cleveland – and he would tell General Motors to get into the business of making railroad cars so we don’t have to import them from Canada.
      Reality is telling us to downscale and get different fast. Quit doing everything possible to prop up the drive-in false utopia and all its accessories. Get local. Tighten up. We have no intention of doing that. The idiocy that passes as informed opinion wants the US money managers to kick out the jambs handing out more money created out of thin air to promote a fantasy called “recovery.” To what purpose? To keep the tailgate parties going down at the Nascar ovals? Over at The New York Times Monday morning, the fatuous Paul Krugman says that “stinting on spending now threatens the economic recovery.” Earth to Krugman: we’re mismanaging contraction. Further expansion is just not in the cards right now for the human race. We don’t need more people on the planet and we don’t have the means to accommodate them. There will be no ‘recovery” to “growth” – especially by means of pumping more oil into the system. There is no techno-miracle alt-fuel panoply waiting in the wings to take over from oil. And there is no research-and-development program that will make it happen, no matter how many acronym-studded incantations we drone out.
     I admit that contraction is a hard reality – but so is the recognition that we don’t get to live forever, something every child begins to grapple with around age seven. The inability to face comprehensive contraction will only insure that its side effects are more debilitating.
____________
A sequel to my 2008 novel of post-oil America, World Made By Hand, will be published in September 2010 by The Atlantic Monthly Press.

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

503 Responses to “Mismanaging Contraction” Subscribe

  1. goodhumorman June 21, 2010 at 9:07 am #

    First! Happy Summer.

  2. thucydides June 21, 2010 at 9:15 am #

    In point of fact, blowout preventers do prevent blowouts. That is unless they’ve been modified by someone other than the manufacturer, which was the case in the BP event. Don’t blame the blowout preventer for the incompetence, and arrogance of the employees of British Petroleum.

  3. Unconventional Ideas June 21, 2010 at 9:16 am #

    The pre-Civil War historical parallel is great. I had never thought of it that way. The similarities with today though are striking.
    Oh, and the jabs at Krugman are more than deserved.
    Thanks Jim for another excellent read this morning.

  4. nothing June 21, 2010 at 9:25 am #

    Jimbo, hasn’t there always been Peak Oil? Peak Gold? Peak Silver? How could it be otherwise for products in steady demand? The one thing you will never see is Peak Paper Money.
    But you can print some Petrodollars for yourself at http://www.thenothingstore.com

  5. Desertrat June 21, 2010 at 9:27 am #

    Folks got all over my case during the summer of 2008 when I said that Obama was today’s answer to the Nowhere Man.
    Folks got all over my case back in the middle/late 1980s when I said this society was heading out on a Saturday night spree, and Sunday morning always follows.
    Okay, fine. Screw it. If I gotta be booked on the Titanic, I ain’t goin’ steerage.
    ‘Rat

  6. Fouad Khan June 21, 2010 at 9:31 am #

    Jim, you bring up an important point about acceptance of human morality. Do we really live in a world where a seven year old is comfortable with the idea of death?
    I think part of the problem of our civilization is that we’ve worked hard to brush the undeniable reality of death under the rug. We live as though we will live on forever.
    Death and resurrection aren’t concepts we are comfortable with. That’s why, even when systems become too complex to continue to be productive any more, we cannot give them up. And we are only civilization in human history of that kind.
    http://hurricanekatrinakaif.com

  7. Lynn Shwadchuck June 21, 2010 at 9:33 am #

    What a buffet of metaphors this time, Jim! I’m sort of speechless with dread over the prospect of the worst case scenario in the sea bed down there. Tightening up does seem like the decent thing to do. Surf ‘n’ turf on the gargantuan gas barbecue for Fathers Day dinner (yes, someone I know – happily, I was not invited) seemed obscene. But I keep getting emails from people who brag that they spend even less than my $150 a month on groceries. Let’s make simplicity and frugality status symbols.
    Lynn
    http://www.10in10diet.com/
    Diet for a small footprint and a small grocery bill

  8. Sanvoiture June 21, 2010 at 9:36 am #

    spent Fathers Day in the suburbs of Rochester, NY, having been sped away from my inner city village to the asphalt car-burbs of acrylic and particle board, in a car nonetheless going ten to fifteen times the speed that my car-free cerebrum is accustomed to- really, felt like I was in a space ship, no chance to really see what I was looking at (probably a blessing anyways), this culture of the car will persist until doomsday, by my own family I’m regarded as a bit of a freak, my rusted old womens bike conveying me monastically about my South Wedge neighborhood for work and daily errands, they fear for my life (“I see black people”), see me as a threat when discussing the future of the car-burbs, retort that technology will save us, the electric car- to run on what? coal generated electricty? gasp, and, like myself, these are church going Christians, somehow Spirituality is confused with having all the latest accoutrements of suburbia, I was surrounded by no less than five giant umbrellas to shade us from the beautiful sun at poolside, just off the immense all glass sun room, vinyl fencing (oil again) providing a barrier to neighbors immersed in the same milieu, and, how much noisier it is there in suburbia than in my own inner city village! is there no philosophy left in us? is consumption our only care? how dependent will we become on exterior
    materialism to define well-being? I was so glad to get back to my “hood,” for a little peace and quiet, to human scale transportation, peace, car-free is possible and beautiful, as a Christian I find it spiritually soaring! Peace Again. Berig Vintrange, Rochester, NY, USA

  9. John T Anderson June 21, 2010 at 9:37 am #

    Jim: Please go easy on Millard Fillmore, a Western New York native. At least he kept our boys out of Hungary, despite the importunities of the exiled Lajos Kossuth, and he sent Commodore Matthew Perry to open up Japan to U.S. trade. The person to bash is Fillmore’s successor, Franklin Pierce, a New Hampshire Democrat who signed the Kansas-Nebraska Act, which destroyed the Whig party and birthed the Republican party. Moreover, the physical resemblance between him and George W. Bush is not coincidental; Pierce’s great-…-great-grandniece, one Barbara Pierce, married George H. W. Bush; Dubya is their firstborn. JTA, Olean, NY

  10. zen17 June 21, 2010 at 9:44 am #

    The Gulf of Mexico will turn into a tar pit once the seabed collapses under the weight of the blowout preventer (450 tons) and the pressure of the oil from the borehole.
    There will be a mass exodus from the southern states…
    Mother Earth is wounded.

  11. Paul Kemp June 21, 2010 at 9:56 am #

    Jim, I agree with your prescription for what our government should do, but it ain’t happening. I didn’t vote for the Messiah of Change, because I didn’t believe he had it in him. But we’re far past the turn onto the wrong road for talking about what we should have done.
    As you pointed out, America doesn’t want change, but change is what it’s going to get.
    So, what are the headline articles on Yahoo! News this morning? Well, one of them is about “Best Summer Drives” for Americans could take. That’s page one news — We just don’t get it.
    And way on the back page is something far more telling: “Armada of US and Israeli Warships Head for Iran” http://www.dailypaul.com/node/138100
    War won’t solve anything, but it’s a great distraction from our latest major f**k-up in the Gulf of Mexico.
    “Mismanaging Contraction” is a good description of what our leaders are doing. And — as if our country wasn’t broke enough already — we are stepping up the spending on war and other wastes of time, lives, and money. Hey, let’s see if we can get the whole world angry at us while we’re at it!
    Like we do with any other problem that is shared by large numbers of Americans, let’s pass a law and throw some money at it! A better plan, available to all able-bodied smart folks is to take responsibility for our own health and the management of our response to inevitable contraction, soon to be compounded by major war.
    http://www.healthyplanetdiet.com/

  12. Smokyjoe June 21, 2010 at 10:01 am #

    Jim, at least the US Army gets it. Locally, troops will begin to move from base to base for training…by TRAIN.
    Yes, for the fist time since WW II (as I heard it) the Army will transport troops on Virginia Railway Express carriages (already making a profit in the light rail business), and work with Amtrak to run the trains.
    It will keep over 4000 buses and tractor-trailers off the interstates.
    More proof that, as Jim puts it, our hope lies with some Colonel in an Afghan wadi, and not with the corporate stooges on Capitol Hill?

  13. Brian Fleck June 21, 2010 at 10:09 am #

    Somehow after following the BP debacle on the net for weeks I missed the ironic fact that it is named Macondo. Isn’t that sad and painfully eerie? Like the fated and almost cursed village described by Marquez, we’re stuck in a terrible cycle of denial and chasing of impossible dreams. Most telling is the Buendia patriarch Aurliano, obsessed with impossible technologies and magics while grim and sad realities unfold around him. Hope.

  14. Brian Fleck June 21, 2010 at 10:12 am #

    Sorry, meant Jose Arcadio (darn confusing names…)

  15. Consultant June 21, 2010 at 10:15 am #

    If they can’t kill this well in August, or kill it period, any idea how much of the oil (@2.5 billion barrels) will flow out under its own pressure?

  16. nino June 21, 2010 at 10:15 am #

    “America does not want change, except from the cash register at WalMart. ”
    – love it!
    “We’ve ramped up a living arrangement that has no future, just as slavery had no future.”
    Slavery had no future when coal and oil started doing the work for the rich landowners. Keep this quote in mind: “A tank of gasoline in a car holds enough energy to equal approximately five years of one person’s rigorous manual labor.”
    I often ask peak oil deniers how long it would take them to push their car as far as a tank of gas would propel it. And how much that would be worth to them in compensation. Certainly not the 30, 40 bucks it takes in gas… I usually get a laugh out of it but the joke will be on all those who become the 21st century slaves. As oil diminishes mancruel (not kind) will need power of some kind. Since everyone not worth a couple million is virtually a slave to the system anyway we will be come the new energy. “working for the man” will have a whole new meaning…

  17. wardoc June 21, 2010 at 10:23 am #

    As a people, we are regressed to a child state, expecting to be taken care of and saved, if necessary, by some ethereal “they.” THEY will come up with something; THEY always have; THEY won WWII; IF THEY can make an atomic bomb, THEY can solve the “gas problem;” THEY will fix it. !!!!!!
    We will not accept reality until it has pummeled us, destroying the fabric of our culture and society and crushing any semblance of civility; and even then most of us will likely become even more delusional and engage in a sort of “living in the past” in order to avoid truly facing reality. I can envision Joe Sixpack eating Alpo and living with his family and ten others in a hovvle telling stories of Nascar and college football heroes of the past.

  18. Ralph June 21, 2010 at 10:27 am #

    I’ve been watching the University of Michigan sink $275,000,000+ into it’s athletic facilities recently. The football stadium is now the architecture that only Albert Spear would love. I don’t understand what they are thinking because when the energy/financial mess really becomes reality there won’t be anymore little guys to pony up the $60.00 dollars per ticket, plus the rediculouse donation fee just to be able to purchase a ticket. A total waste of resources.

  19. Qshtik June 21, 2010 at 10:51 am #

    acceptance of human morality
    ===============
    Argghhh! Just 6 posts in to a new Monday thread and already my work begins. It’s mortality Fouad.
    And to Wardoc a little farther down … it’s hovel not hovvle.
    Am I annoying? Well then I’m annoying. I am large … etc.

  20. timetobike June 21, 2010 at 10:53 am #

    To Ralph
    At least Michigan didn’t spend $30 billion on its stadiums and related facilities like South Africa did for the World Cup.

  21. empirestatebuilding June 21, 2010 at 11:04 am #

    Obama is entering what pyschohistorians refer to asn the Cracking phase of his presidency. This is an phase in which the president appears impotent and powerless.
    This phase is followed by the collapse phase. According to the theory only a sacrifice can restore the power of the presidency. This is done through a war or an assassination or assassination attempt.
    Me, I’ve already collapsed. I am finishing up my first year of unemployment and there is no end in site.
    Aimlow Joe was here.
    http://www.aimlow.com

  22. Al Klein June 21, 2010 at 11:04 am #

    I heard that the recent slight decline in gasoline price caused an uptick in SUV and pickup truck sales. If this is true, what is it that the people who buy these vehicles don’t get? I mean, is it not obvious that frugality in oil consumption is the intelligent response to recent evidence? I get the feeling that many Americans think that their adherence to unsustainable behavior is an article of faith. Rather like the old marketing spiel “think and grow rich.” Do they think their willful disregard of the upcoming limits to oil energy somehow alters reality?
    Another observation: Those who believe in the likelihood of peak oil are marginalized as “conspiracy nuts”. Alternatively, those who believe that oil is greatly abundant and, accordingly, the prices are kept inordinately high by oil companies are also marginalized as conspiracy theorists. So the only ones who are not marginalized are those that think that oil availability is limited, just not right now to any extent that would be classified as an emergency. This is an interesting dynamic. I would be interested in others’ elaboration on this seeming paradox (of sorts).

  23. Jim from Watkins Glen June 21, 2010 at 11:09 am #

    Kunstler’s at his best when he unleashes his poetic voice. It adds dimension to all the stupid shit we’re up to when it’s described with piercing prose. Such a stark contrast to the prattle showing up in the mail from political candidates, all of whom are bereft of any vision for contraction. They don’t come any brighter than Barak Obama and he’s got nuthin’. Our individual futures will be within earshot, not arriving through the wires of our failing grid.

  24. wagelaborer June 21, 2010 at 11:09 am #

    No, actually, there hasn’t.
    Spain lived large for the century after they found the New World, and started gently persuading the natives to provide them with gold. Then they collapsed in sloth and debt.
    The USA was bailed out of financial collapse in 1849, with the discovery of gold in California, and in the early 20th century, when the Alaskan gold rush began.
    Great Britain was bailed out by the North Sea discovery.
    Humans will live in as much luxury as they can afford for as long as they can pay for or borrow for it.
    Most humans will then downsize, but a few will kill and steal for more.
    Those would be the ones who rule us, and are preparing for war with Iran.

  25. wagelaborer June 21, 2010 at 11:14 am #

    Our local college is also building new athletic facilities.
    Our local city council voted to give them $20 million to further these aims. Then they proposed to sell the city water supply to balance the budget!
    In the meantime, they are building a MASSIVE something down the road from me.
    Is it an Air Force National Guard base? Is it a Red Cross “disaster center”? Is it new air hangars and automotive storage?
    The stories change. But the boondoggle continues, and the cement trucks go by every 10 minutes, just like trolleys are supposed to, but don’t.

  26. Vlad Krandz June 21, 2010 at 11:17 am #

    We have any chemists, physicists, or oceanographers on-board? There are some sites that are broaching the possibility that the worst case scenario down there is far worse than we can imagine. Not a slow motion disaster but a catastrophe of Bibical proportions. Basically, that there is a gigantic primordial bubble of methane down in with the oil field and that is what is causing the incredible pressure of 100,000 psi. (there was never any chance to block it up under that kind of pressure) And that once eneough water pours into to equalize the pressure, the methane will shoot to the surface causing a multi-megaton explosion and subsequent tsunami. Please check it out and see if it makes any sense:
    http://www.helium.com/items/1864136-how-the-ultimate-bp-gulf-disaster-could-kill-millions

  27. steve June 21, 2010 at 11:20 am #

    Good column, just the facts, no polemics against the evils of the American South.
    History is replete with misallocations of limited resources. Ours is just the latest folly in a long list of man’s vainglories, but we’ll survive until we don’t and The Messiah will be just a blip in the record books.
    I was surprised to hear about the U. of Mich. and their athletics boondoggle – sounds more like my State of Louisiana. I’m familiar with goings on in Ukraine, which is spending tons of IMF money to build stadia for 2012 EuroCup matches – wow! There is a macabre kind of fascination, watching all of this happening in one’s lifetime.

  28. Vlad Krandz June 21, 2010 at 11:31 am #

    Ah yes “opening up Japan” – just like it was a jar of mayonaise. Yes we opened them up against their will and to the utter hatred of the samurai class. It set it motion the reformers and modernizers who created the Japanese Empire and the events that lead to Pearl Harbor. For they were ready for that dreadful day – long had they been studying us based on the what they could glean from the Dutch Traders and the Spanish before them. When we barged in, they knew they could not defeat so instead they sprang into action – an action they had long dreaded but prepared for. And you think that it is over now? No, they didn’t particularly care for the two A bombs. They feel they need to return the favor some day.
    All of the above in a general way applies to China as well. One of the wisest men of the 19th century said, “Let the Dragon sleep”. He was a clergyman but I forget his name. Anyway, we didn’t listen and now the Dragon is hissing and pawing and coming our way. He also owns alot of our economy. Hopefully we will remember that discreton is the better part of valour and not defend Taiwan when the Dragon decides to move. What’s the difference now anyway? East Asians don’t create democracies in our sense of the word. They believe in “big men” and old heads are wiser. There is more religous freedom in Taiwan of course, and that’s important. But not worth a nuclear war. It’s none of our business. Those golden words, words to live by.

  29. Bobby June 21, 2010 at 11:43 am #

    “Lesson of the Macondo: Blowout preventers don’t prevent blowouts. This comes as a shock to people attuned to the on-schedule arrival of techno-miracles. Now, all the acronym-studded invocations of techno-mastery by men wearing interesting hats will not avail to put the schnitz on an epic horror show in the Gulf of Mexico.
    Well, we could have had the technical expertise to work on the ocean floor if we had put more resources there, instead of into the space program. Oops.

  30. sergei nechaev June 21, 2010 at 11:45 am #

    brilliant piece. Now that we can all agree that a spineless Obama is channelling the late great Mr. Fillmore, so who will be the John Brown of our era?
    no doubt everyone here has seen the brilliant & terrifying assessment by oil expert “dougr”. If not don’t miss it:
    http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6593/648967
    his conclusion:” The magnitude and impact of this disaster will eclipse anything we have known in our life times if the worst or even near worst happens…We are seeing the puny forces of man vs the awesome forces of nature. We are going to need some luck and a lot of effort to win…
    and if nature decides we ought to lose, we will….”
    amen

  31. DJL June 21, 2010 at 11:49 am #

    JHK’s thoughts on contraction are quite good. The truth is that this bit of the cycle is very tricky to do right. Seems to me it works best when a nation/people have a few extra cards up their sleeves and the other players aren’t watching the game too closely… I think economic collapse of the sort we’re in is quite new. Our culture doesn’t have good micro-code for handling these events, yet. Sophisticate finance is evolving, it might take an entire millennia to perfect the system.
    Of course the Obama/Lincoln comparison is apt, for many reasons. But if you use the Howe and Strauss Generations-Turnings perspective to look at history, you’ll notice a few important differences… the first is the Generation Types. Lincoln was a Prophet, Like Franklin, FDR, Clinton and Bush the younger. Obama is a Nomad Like Washington, Adams, Grant and lessor others, and Truman and Eisenhower. You’ll note that all Nomad presidents mentioned (and these are the important ones), all became president after the great crisis war was fought.
    However the Prophet presidents are more flexible… they appear before the war and stay through the conflict. The Prophet type can start early and stay until the conflict ends and then they get kicked out of office (like today’s Boomers, they become quite tiresome).
    The Nomad generation type (Liberty, Gilded, Lost, X’er?) seem to require participation in the great war at less than commander in chief rank, to gain entry to the White House. Think of Washington, Grant, Truman and Ike…
    So we have Gen differences and real timing differences. I think they tend to doom today’s effort, and I suspect Obama will fail.
    The most confusing aspect of all this in todays situation is that Obama is a true cusper (born in the first year of Gen X, one year earlier he’d be a Prophet Boomer). He clearly can switch hit, but is there something that won’t let him be the inspiring leader of Spirit like Lincoln and FDR? There are many facets to a generation, and I don’t believe all can be easily summoned up when you aren’t a member of that generation, even if you are a true cusper. Interestingly FDR was a cusper too, but a last year Missionary Prophet. The Nomad Lost followed (the reverse of the Bush the younger/Obama setup.
    Today to me looks like a crisis timing a bit quicker than the 1929-1941 run-up to war, with an intensity somewhat like the Civil War of 1861-1865… the Civil War Crisis was incredibly condensed. So I look to a great war in 2020 lasting about 4 years. Hopefully we could avoid it altogether, and that would be the first time since Jeanne ‘d Arc, in Anglo/American history! Now that is something to aim for!
    Read Howe and Strauss’s “The Fourth Turning” to grok all this if you like history. It’s much more relevant to many than most history.
    DJL

  32. moeaxelrod June 21, 2010 at 11:53 am #

    Suppose a candidate for office ran on a peak oil message. Imagine how the other candidate would beat up on that message. We will mismanage contraction because we cannot arrive at consensus of reality. I agree with you Jim, we do not want change, we want to get back to 2006. The local news last night(Peoria, IL) ran a story about an inner city Black mother who wants to move out of town because of all the gun shootings in the past 3 days; one dead and about 15 wounded. Meanwhile the local pols are busy trying to build a hotel for tourists and a museum on the river, as if that will be a game changer. Weren’t cities originally settled to provide safety (walls) and economic opportunity (a concentrated pool of labor)?

  33. Paul Kemp June 21, 2010 at 11:54 am #

    I believe what people are buying SUVs for, more than anything, is safety in a crash as 80 MPH. Whether this is just their perception or not is open to debate.
    More than the appeal of perceived safety for some is the demonstration that they are “supporting the war effort” by buying military-looking vehicles like the Hummer and Jeep Patriot. “Get in my land and I’ll rain some lead on you in your little Rice-burner!” seems to be the subliminal message of these folks.
    It’s vacation time, her on the Oregon Coast and the giant RVs are out in somewhat diminished force, sporting bumper stickers like, “We’re Spending Our Children’s Inheritance”.
    We’re wasting our breath talking about conservation to these folks. It’s the final blow-out for the Gasoline Age and they plan to enjoy it until it’s all gone. Before that happens, they’ll be all in favor of going to war to capture some more.
    This is the problem with democracy — the morons have us outnumbered!

  34. SNAFU June 21, 2010 at 12:08 pm #

    JHK says “This comes as a shock to people attuned to the on-schedule arrival of techno-miracles.”
    Based upon the intent of “on-schedule arrival of techno-” I will leap to the conclusion that JHK never held employment in a technical environment. Having spent the majority of my working career as a military and DoD civilian engineer providing technical support to various aerospace and electronic weapons systems procurement programs I will boldly state that in my experience the engineers and technicians far and away comprehend the magnitude of the tasks they are tasked with accommodating. On the other hand the program managers far and away tend to underestimate the time, manpower and materiel required. In dozens and dozens of meetings I have observed “management” for both the contractor and government blowing smoke up each others asses concerning schedule and cost and totally ignoring red flags thrown by the technical personnel from both camps. The upshot of all this frivolity comes home to roost when scheduled deliveries start to slip and then during acceptance testing the real shit hits the fan. To illustrate the technical management divide let me regurgitate one of my favorite most anecdotes concerning such. In the 1980’s I was supporting the F/FB-111 flight simulators and Mac-Air (McDonnell Douglas Aircraft now a division of Boeing) had won a portion of a simulator modification program contract. A group of about 40/50 USAF technical support personnel including myself, simulator technicians and airplane driver and bomb nav crews were in attendance at a meeting in St. Louis, MO. Subsequent to a rather rancorous hashing over of what the USAF thought we had procured and what Mac-Air thought they had sold it became clear to all involved what was what when the software engineering manager for Mac-Air, to the best of my recollection, made the following statements. “I understand what you want and I/we can provide it.” Then he turned and pointed to the nattily attired executive vice President sitting in the room and said “he won’t let me”. Anyone besides me believe that discussions with similar intent have taken place at BP negotiations in the past, present and will continue to do so in the future?
    It is patently clear that JHK does not believe there are any conspiracy theories of merit concerning the 911 attack upon the Twin Towers e.g. his open ridicule of the possibility of such on his CFN home page. Is it possible that he might consider the possibility of conspiracies among TPTB to enable them to maintain control of the various levels of government? It is my observation that the entire so called capitalistic free enterprise economic system is nothing more than one all encompassing conspiracy to extort from the masses and provide to the few via the grandest corporate welfare/giveaway programs ever conceived, aided and abetted by governments at all levels. It does appear from his musings about the BP oil blowout in the Gulf of Mexico that JHK might, just might, consider the carrying on of BP executives as possibly bordering upon “conspiracy”.
    I am heartened to observe that JHK is starting to speak to the necessity for contraction of the economy; now if he will go the rest of the way and speak to the necessity for human population contraction. Is it not amusing that humans promote policies to “spay and neuter” pets but fail to notice that the greatest over populating critter on the planet is “them”. How about bumper stickers with “SAVE THE EARTH SPAY AND NEUTER YOUR CHILDREN”.
    SNAFU

  35. Fouad Khan June 21, 2010 at 12:08 pm #

    yeah, typo. thanks for pointing out.

  36. Grouchy Old Girl June 21, 2010 at 12:14 pm #

    Recent events in my little burg here on the north side of Lake Ontario have convinced me that we are indeed too deluded, too dumb, to heed the warnings all around us.
    Having been raised to believe that if we wish hard enough, our dreams will come true, any other outcome is simply unthinkable. So we don’t think, we wish instead.
    I think one of our biggest problems is that while technology has expanded vastly and quickly, we still carry the emotions of our early ancestors, and just can’t cope. We don’t think ahead, we don’t apply wisdom to all that power; we are still ruled by passions like greed and anger. So we make poor decisions that have brought us to the brink of disaster with no relief in sight.
    It’s going to be a hard landing when the sheeple finally realize the wishing and dreaming machine is truly broken and we only have ourselves to fix the mess we’ve made. It won’t be enough.

  37. groking June 21, 2010 at 12:27 pm #

    My hope is that the multitude of lifestyle adjustments and sacrifices will be equally distributed. This is perhaps the greatest challenge facing Obama. The American people have exhibited an ability to behave with integrity and fortitude when faced with hardships that are a shared experience. Can he at least create a perception that the pain will be felt by one and all, regardless of economic and social status? This is also why the rhetoric from the rightwing talking heads is so dangerous and combustable. They profit from and encourage the misguided rage of dimwits who want to believe that everything that’s wrong with their lives has been engineered by some sinister agenda of the administration. I still want to believe that the best of our national character will emerge and flourish during the “long emergency”.

  38. jeremy hickerson June 21, 2010 at 12:34 pm #

    While I agree that Paul Krugman has not yet figured out that there is nothing to “recover” to, I put this down to the fact that his focus is within his discipline. He really is one of the few intellectually honest voices out there and frequently contrary to what passes as conventional wisdom. Give him time. And he’s right about the mechanics of this – we can make the contraction more of a transition with stimulus spending. What is missing is the acknowledgment that it is a contraction, not a recovery, and that we need to prepare for a different economy and way of life.

  39. Bigus Dickus June 21, 2010 at 12:34 pm #

    Jim, great observations as always, but you’re way too soft on Krugman. Is he a relative?

  40. SeaYoung June 21, 2010 at 12:47 pm #

    Great imagery…”looks to its captain – who puffs a few platitudes into the tattered sails and retreats belowdecks to pace and stew.” I love it when words fall together with purpose and paint a mournful picture as above. Mr. JHK you could’a been’a blues artist.
    Speaking of W. His presidency, particullary pre-911, left the uncanny feeling that the best days were over. The same uncanny feeling now mutes the Obama administration. Did they (Obama’s folks) reach the same conclusion? I believe this may be true given our curent configuration, but as a resilient bunch, historically, our better days are ahead.
    Maybe “retreats below deck and has another Camel” is more accurate.

  41. Jim from Watkins Glen June 21, 2010 at 12:47 pm #

    Al,
    Excellent observations, as unsettling as they are. It seems to be human nature to ignore or discredit facts that do not reinforce one’s current position.

  42. Puzzler June 21, 2010 at 12:52 pm #

    Snafu said: How about bumper stickers with “SAVE THE EARTH SPAY AND NEUTER YOUR CHILDREN”.
    Very funny and appropriate. But realize the result of that would be a declining population of smart people from not reproducing and increasing numbers of morons. It’s already happening. That’s the plot of the movie “Idiocracy”.

  43. Newfie June 21, 2010 at 1:03 pm #

    Great post JHK ! It looks hopeless but there is some level of awareness out there. There are now about a dozen peak oil documentary films so that says something. I can recommend the following (JHK appears in some of them):
    The End of Suburbia (2004)
    A Crude Awakening (2007)
    Blind Spot (2008)
    The Great Squeeze (2009)
    PetroApocalypse Now? (Region 2)
    Peak Oil (Region 2)
    Has anyone seen any of these:
    Energy Crossroads (2007)
    After The Peak (2007)
    Denial Stops Here
    What a Way to Go

  44. mayberrymachiavellian June 21, 2010 at 1:03 pm #

    Vlad:
    The Florida-tsunami Mother-of-All-Methane Bubbles story is certainly eye-catching.
    The author, Terrence Aym, does not claim any expertise in oceanography, geology, or relevant disciplines, (see: http://www.helium.com/users/529618)
    Here’s an excerpt from his bio:
    “Mr. Aym’s first story appeared under a pseudonym in a romance magazine several decades ago. Since that milestone most of his published works have been chiefly financial articles.
    Although his principal career for many years was financial services (an executive with securities companies, stock brokerage and institutional mutual funds), his interests have always encompassed such diverse fields as economics, philosophy, astronomy, aerospace, physics, archeology, paleontology, the paranormal, classical literature, classical art, cooking, and traveling.”
    So, his credentials are less than overwhelming for this sort of doomsday speculation. But it would be interesting to get the opinion of someone with appropriate background regarding his scenario.

  45. philski June 21, 2010 at 1:14 pm #

    Is it just me or has it occured to anyone else that all this crude spewing from a depth of 10 miles or whatever is the ultimate proof of abiotic oil?
    I mean is all this oil from antiquity actually from their refried flora and fauna with a few dinosaur turds in the mix?
    Maybe the abiotic crew is right. Anyone have anything intelligent to say about this?

  46. jackieblue2u June 21, 2010 at 1:16 pm #

    There is so much Rage on the Roads, more and more, people will run you off without a care. it’s like they have a suicide wish and don’t care if they take you out also, or just take you out. I have literally been run off the road by ‘adults’ not even teenagers. People drive like s***. for the most part.
    the CHP didn’t care. Total a******. on a power trip.
    It is time to lay low. don’t attract attention to yourself. but act quietly behind the scenes. pay attention. there IS danger all around. Especially robberies.
    I try to drive as little as possible and could do even better than I do. and I drive a generic car.
    runs great looks ok.
    I remember when we had our Earthquake here on the West Coast, people really did pull together. That was in 89. I think that when TSHF even worse that many will pull together, but the Gangs will NOT, and they will create much violence, robbery, etc. I fear this. I see it already.
    Puzzler is right about it would be the smart people, the one’s who should have children who won’t or don’t. the stupid ones, well there will be more and more of them, wait, there already is !
    Thanks JHK for having this blog. I discovered Home From Nowhere and have been reading you ever since. Keep it up.
    melinda

  47. Elaine~ June 21, 2010 at 1:22 pm #

    My god what a fantastic article.
    Thank you!
    I always say that history is a wheel, because people are fundamentally the same. The road has different bumps but we go ’round and ’round.

  48. Vlad Krandz June 21, 2010 at 1:35 pm #

    Apparently signs of hydo-carbons have been detected on various worlds such as Titan, a moon of Jupiter or Saturn. The building blocks of oil seem to be widespread throughout our corner of universe – definetly a plus for the abiotics.

  49. Vlad Krandz June 21, 2010 at 1:38 pm #

    Thank you. Mayberry is or at least was, nice. But do you know about Willoughby, where a man can take full measure? Just get on the train and go past your stop – you’ll get there. Eventually.

  50. Vlad Krandz June 21, 2010 at 1:43 pm #

    Finally Mr Kunstler has completely repudiated the stuffed suit/nowhere man. Hell hath no fury like a Liberal scorned. The only mystery is why he and so many others ever believed in him. Could it be because of his skin color? Could liberals have actually been so vacuous and venial as to vote on this basis – completley repudiating their own color blind ideology in the process? It appears so. Prejudice isn’t just to be mindlessly against something but equally to be mindlessly for something.

  51. Tancred June 21, 2010 at 1:46 pm #

    For all of the vitriol JHK reserves especially for Atlanta, I don’t think I’ve seen him comment on one of this city’s most obvious characteristics: racial division. I’ll state up front that what I’m about to write is racist, but it’s because, in this case, it IS about race. And since JHK is a lumper rather than a splitter (all NASCAR fans are stupid and fat), I’ll break out my broad brush. If white suburbanites with SUVs are game for criticism, I’d like to criticize black urban “culture” here. Atlanta is the epicenter of immediate gratification and familial and societal dysfunction. It seems that one of the most important visual cues used by blacks around here is the chrome wheel. That’s REALLY what a large segment of the black population cares about most. Obesity and the corresponding diabetes is off-the-chain as they might say. Fried chicken anyone? I’ve NEVER seen a per-capita ratio of fried chicken joints to population than here in The ATL. Nor have I seen as many black people (almost ALWAYS black people) buzzing around in wheelchairs. Invariably one or both of their legs are amputated. Rent-to-own stores abound. Pay-day loan stores. Rip-off Metro PCS phone stores. Car “detailing” shops (WTF?). Pimpin’ and thuggery abound. Atlanta: #1 in child prostitution. What do they steal in bulk? Designer jeans. Cars of choice? Cadillac Escalades and Hummers (with those chrome wheels, of course). The entire Atlanta MSA, third largest black population in the country, is perpetually dysfunctional in terms of governance. The Detroit or DC of The South. Right now I could look out my window and run out of fingers to count all the young, single black girls with two or more kids in tow. They are all of school age. They all have the dreaded neck-tattoos and feed their kids that red “juice” as if it really comes from a real fruit. Add to that a 100% lack of consideration for the larger environment, with people throwing their chicken bones on the sidewalk, women and men openly spitting their mucus on the ground. This is the common behavior, not the exceptional. And talk about adopting the “Prosperity Gospel.” I can’t count how many times I’ve seen a “Truly Blessed” vanity plate on an SUV or Hummer. They actually believe that shite. Only the black bums ride bikes. Atlanta, home of “Crunk” and other hip-hop crap. Young black men say a few words into a computer, add some stolen beats, and viola they are an instant sensation in their mind. No, I don’t want to by your stupid rap CD.Smash and Grab crimes are rampant. And the white folks that fled to burbs in the 1960s have their own cultural crap. And the white “good ol’ boys” ran stuff for decades. Why would we think another cohort (blacks) would do better? Ask Detroit, Philly, DC. It’s horrible. It’s real, and yes, it’s racist (racial?). And a huge industry of white lawyers make their living off of insurance claims for blacks who are “In a wreck? and “Get a check!!” 1-800-law hurt. How about the “Free at Last” bail bonding service?
    My apologies to the 5% of blacks that do not fit into the above profile.

  52. k-dog June 21, 2010 at 1:57 pm #

    The Millard Filmore description fits.
    Cotton was the villain in 1850 and oil is the culprit now. Back then fundamental change was the only thing that could have possibly kept the union whole.
    Filmore delayed the inevitable, Obama delays the inevitable. Obama like Fillmore attempts compromise to stitch together a country coming apart at the seams.

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Oil and water cannot mix.

  53. Andy Williams June 21, 2010 at 2:05 pm #

    Stop showing yourselves up as fools by calling BP British Petroleum. It changed it’s name to BP decades ago when it became a multi-national corporation.
    Half of the Board of Directors are in fact American.

  54. IVAN June 21, 2010 at 2:09 pm #

    Vlad Krandz
    Re: Methane Bubble
    Bunk.

  55. asoka June 21, 2010 at 2:12 pm #

    John T. Anderson said:

    Jim: Please go easy on Millard Fillmore, a Western New York native. At least he kept our boys out of Hungary, despite the importunities of the exiled Lajos Kossuth, and he sent Commodore Matthew Perry to open up Japan to U.S. trade.

    The U.S. took land from Mexico by force in the Mexican-American War (thankfully those states are now in the process of being taken back by the Mexicans). After that war Fillmore supported slavery in those states that used to be land belonging to Mexico to win approval of the South.
    In Fillmore’s own words: “God knows that I detest slavery, but it is an existing evil … and we must endure it and give it such protection as is guaranteed by the Constitution.”
    http://americanhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/bad_presidents_of_the_1850s
    Taking land forcibly and violently from brown people and then sinking so low as to bargain with black people’s freedom … to appease white racists … none of that endears me to Fillmore.

  56. Andy Williams June 21, 2010 at 2:22 pm #

    Bunk the methane bubble maybe (and probably is), but look at the rubbish orthodox economists were writing in 2006. Then look what really happened – something that only so-called idiots were predicting.
    When it comes to distaers, it’s the experts that tend to get it wrong not the loonies.

  57. Florifulgurator June 21, 2010 at 2:52 pm #

    Actually every POTUS since Nixon acknowledged that oil thing. Here’s a great reality satire educational video:
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future
    Last line: “You know why Nixon couldn’t get this done? … Because Richard Nixon was a communist.”

  58. IVAN June 21, 2010 at 2:54 pm #

    Andy Williams
    For the methane bubble to explode under water it needs ignition and oxygen and has neither. Simple common sense.
    The economic thing, well the lack of common sense applies as well. Housing prices will always go up, is a dangerous assumption and as we’ve seen, wrong.
    Greed and stupidity I guess tend to be recognized by the “loonies”

  59. Cash June 21, 2010 at 3:04 pm #

    Krugman is a member of that most useless profession. I think it was Shakespeare that said “first let’s kill all the lawyers” (Henry VI I think). Substitute “economists” for “lawyers”.
    I’m kidding. I’m not advocating violence against economists. I couldn’t hurt an economist. Next to accountants, they are the most pathetic gang of losers, geeks, nerds and social retards. I pity them.
    But I think we shouldn’t be shy about telling economists to STFU just like when they were buck toothed goofs back in high school. Maybe then they’ll go away and find something useful to do.

  60. wagelaborer June 21, 2010 at 3:15 pm #

    Ah, the usual theme. We smart people need to outbreed those dumb people.
    Never mind that there are too many people, period. It’s a population race!! And smart people don’t use as many resources as dumb people, right?
    I hear this all the time at work.
    http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2009/12/survival-of-fittest.html
    Only idiots and economists believe that growth can be unlimited.

  61. MINDfool June 21, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    One mile of sea water generates a pressure of less than 3000 psi. 2 and a half miles of rock could add this up to about 10,000 psi. So if there is a pimple of methane at 100,000 psi, it is being contained by the tensile strength of the rock. The quality of the rock will determine its tensile strength, but if you have ever squeezed a pimple, it is easy to understand that the release could be explosive. Since cracks and fissures are opening…(let us keep our fingers crossed or pray)
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dk-matai/gulf-of-mexico-danger-of_b_619095.html

  62. MINDfool June 21, 2010 at 3:28 pm #

    Just to add to the above, apparently Norway requires relief wells to have been drilled before the main well is finished. Like much we see with political and corporate greed and stupidity, the problem we are having with the well is mostly poor planning and attitude.

  63. MINDfool June 21, 2010 at 3:29 pm #

    Just to add to the above, apparently Norway requires relief wells to have been drilled before the main well is finished. Like much we see with political and corporate greed and stupidity, the problem we are having with the well is mostly poor planning and attitude.

  64. Andy Williams June 21, 2010 at 3:48 pm #

    No it wouldn’t. It would just need high pressure and then heat caused by the pressure pushing it so fast it builds friction . Then as it beaks the surface and comes in contact with the air – boom.
    Basic physics.

  65. treebeardsuncle June 21, 2010 at 4:03 pm #

    Have read BP is not letting clean-up workers wear gas masks/respirators because they don’t want the spill to appear like much of a problem. They are also using the dispersants to cover up the spill. Time and silence hide all evils. How often has an abuser said “That was a long time ago.” I expect within 3 months of the rupture the news media will have moved on. This is not going to be a 911-event because it does not drum up funding for that which is supported. The attack on 911 was used to drum up spending for the arms contractors, to encourage occupation of various lands in the Middle East, and to infringe on domestic civil liberties. Incidentally, around 50,000 Americans die in car crashes each year, which is as great as the number of American troops that died in the Vietnam War. However, driving so much is rarely questioned. Nader did make a good point by terming some of the GM and other vehicles “Unsafe at Any Speed.”

  66. Thaddeus June 21, 2010 at 4:17 pm #

    I love this sentence: “A nation foundering in a crippled vessel in the horse latitudes of collective purpose on a sea of red ink looks to its captain – who puffs a few platitudes into the tattered sails and retreats belowdecks to pace and stew.”

  67. upstater June 21, 2010 at 4:28 pm #

    “Someone paying attention to the mandates of reality would get the choo-choo trains running from Dayton to Columbus to Cincinnati to Cleveland – and he would tell General Motors to get into the business of making railroad cars so we don’t have to import them from Canada.”
    Jim, are you not aware that Obama’s HSR has the Cleveland-Cincinnati “HSR” as a component??? It is $400 million that will provide 39 MPH average speed.
    The Ohio republicans are considering blocking receipt of the funds because it puts the state on the hook for operating subsidies. Probably one of the few sensible things repubs are doing these days.
    Needless to say, we need a LOT of legitimate HSR, plus simply decent regular rail passenger service. Mainlines should be electrified and capacity added where it is needed.
    If we cut the fully loaded “defense” budget (DoD, DoE, State, CIA, Veterans Affairs, Homeland, NSA, etc, etc) to 1% of GDP there would be money for both rail and universal health care.
    But Obama is a corporatist hack. You can see how quickly he genuflects for big business. He spends more time on his knees than “kicking ass”.
    We have a Thelma and Louise end coming with these corporatist hacks in change.

  68. MINDfool June 21, 2010 at 4:32 pm #

    Abiotic oil is a long standing possibility: The
    solar system is full of methane:
    http://www.rense.com/general63/refil.htm

  69. agribiz June 21, 2010 at 4:51 pm #

    Thank you for putting a tag on the dull ache in my gut that I’ve been feeling and that I’ve been knowing that I had experienced previously and couldn’t identify myself. By God, it WAS there before, for the nearly complete first year of the W administration…beforo 9-11…when I had been saying to the generally unresponsive, that “something is going to happen.”
    But I must admit that not unlike other free people we personally took out a property improvement upgrade mortgage on a damned to near paid for acreage, and fixed up our place 15 miles from nowhere (now a nowhere with no jobs, hundreds having been lost since Sept. ’08) and 50 miles from ANYwhere and “shopped”, as directed by a President that I despised…maybe, now, for the wrong reasons.
    That ache? What’s it telling me now? The mortgage is moot…the bank that is holding it now…not the one that we signed the papers at but the one that bought the bunddle…can have it….and I fully expect to be able to get it back for 15 cents on the dollar (if we want it) but that ache? That ache is telling me war on Iran.
    The President, who I’d vote for again and again against ANY Christianist/neoconservative candidate for reasons I can’t begin to understand myself… can’t run with the dogs he’s running with and not fall into the trap of oily bucks. He’ll most likely take us there. He may not have any choice, now that he’s given up hope…of which if anybody can’t see that he has, they are blind. At 16 months in, he’s riding the storm out.
    The Nation seemed to like the idea of what was a new (to most) progressive vision. We just didn’t manage to get one. Couldn’t have, actually…we really didn’t want one.

  70. MINDfool June 21, 2010 at 5:04 pm #

    From debka:
    The armada of 10 US warships plus an Israeli and German battle vessel each, which transited the Suez Canal Friday, June 18, has reached the Persian Gulf, debkafile’s military sources report.
    But first, from June 6 through June 10, the USS Harry S. Truman carrier Strike Group was deployed 50 miles of the shore of southwestern Israel, secretly drilling the interception of incoming Iranian, Syrian and Hizballah missiles and rockets against US and Israeli targets in the Middle East.
    This was first revealed by DEBKA-Net-Weekly 449 on June 18.
    The fleet let by the Truman then headed for the Persian Gulf through the Suez Canal accompanied by an Israeli missile ship (not identified) and the German missile frigate FGS Hessen F221.

  71. Pepper Spray June 21, 2010 at 5:46 pm #

    TPTB certainly cannot get it right. Christ, if we are relying on them we are feakin’ screwed!

  72. Rick June 21, 2010 at 6:07 pm #

    Right on Jim!

  73. Nudge June 21, 2010 at 6:13 pm #

    Tancred wrote:
    “I’ll state up front that what I’m about to write is racist”
    “I’d like to criticize black urban ‘culture’ here”
    “most important visual cues used by blacks”
    “black population cares about”
    “almost ALWAYS black people”
    “Pimpin’ and thuggery abound”
    “What do they steal in bulk?”
    “third largest black population”
    “black girls with two or more kids”
    “black bums”
    “Young black men say a few words”
    “My apologies to the 5% of blacks that do not fit into the above profile.”
    Tancred, fyi, the whack-job racist nutcases usually wait until later in the week before taking over this space with their spewage.
    Doesn’t the KKK or the Tea Party (aka the Klan Lite) have some forum of their own where you and your fellow pudgy white over-50 minority pinheads can congratulate yourselves on being masters of the universe?
    At least have the decency to footnote your postings with something saying that less than 5% of white people believe in this sh!te and that your views are from an extreme far-right part of the spectrum, somewhere between Hitler and Pat Buchanan. And if you ever clue up and decide to become a member of the human race, why, please feel free to go explain yourself to the Southern Poverty Law Center. They’d love to hear from you.

  74. Russ A June 21, 2010 at 7:13 pm #

    Blaming President Obama is just as ridiculous as an adult of 50 still blaming his parents for things he SHOULD have and COULD have fixed years ago.
    We got into this mess from years of sticking our heads in the sane and voting for who made us feel good, since Reagan and “morning in America” which was really “evening in America”. We are now at the beginning of the night.
    I am old enough to remember the loud warnings from those knowledgable since the early 1970’s which were systematically IGNORED and LAUGHED at by the voting public. And here are the consequences today. President Obama can no more undo and change 3 decades of hopeless mismanagement and greed in just TWO years than a crack addict can detox in two days. That is just the reality of the situation and no republican or tea-partier is going to do any better. Period.
    Mondale once told the audience during a debate with Reagan that he would have to raise taxes. “he won’t tell you. I just did,” Mondale said. And that ended his bid for president. BUI.,.he WAS telling the truth. They raised taxes in the next term. LOL But people didn’t want to hear the truth of what needed to be done.
    Alas….

  75. Free_Spirit June 21, 2010 at 7:29 pm #

    What is going to be amazing to most, is that there won’t be a “big war” to “downsize” humanity. Simply not procreating for a generation or two will do that. Think it far fetched? Look at the Chinese. Those areas who do procreate will be fighting the next wars to thin the herd in their section of the planet. Fade to black…

  76. Nudge June 21, 2010 at 7:30 pm #

    Long before former president GW Bush told us we’ve got an energy addiction, long before former president Carter bundled up in a cardigan and told us we’ve been using more and more energy every decade and that someday it’s going to run out, admiral Hyman Rickover laid it out bare for all to see.
    “Energy resources and our future” – remarks by Admiral Hyman Rickover delivered in 1957
    by Rear Admiral Hyman G. Rickover, U.S. Navy
    /snip
    We live in what historians may some day call the Fossil Fuel Age. Today coal, oil, and natural gas supply 93% of the world’s energy; water power accounts for only 1%; and the labor of men and domestic animals the remaining 6%. This is a startling reversal of corresponding figures for 1850 – only a century ago. Then fossil fuels supplied 5% of the world’s energy, and men and animals 94%. Five sixths of all the coal, oil, and gas consumed since the beginning of the Fossil Fuel Age has been burned up in the last 55 years.
    These fuels have been known to man for more than 3,000 years. In parts of China, coal was used for domestic heating and cooking, and natural gas for lighting as early as 1000 B.C. The Babylonians burned asphalt a thousand years earlier. But these early uses were sporadic and of no economic significance. Fossil fuels did not become a major source of energy until machines running on coal, gas, or oil were invented. Wood, for example, was the most important fuel until 1880 when it was replaced by coal; coal, in turn, has only recently been surpassed by oil in this country.
    Once in full swing, fossil fuel consumption has accelerated at phenomenal rates. All the fossil fuels used before 1900 would not last five years at today’s rates of consumption.
    Nowhere are these rates higher and growing faster than in the United States. Our country, with only 6% of the world’s population, uses one third of the world’s total energy input; this proportion would be even greater except that we use energy more efficiently than other countries. Each American has at his disposal, each year, energy equivalent to that obtainable from eight tons of coal. This is six times the world’s per capita energy consumption. Though not quite so spectacular, corresponding figures for other highly industrialized countries also show above average consumption figures. The United Kingdom, for example, uses more than three times as much energy as the world average.
    With high energy consumption goes a high standard of living. Thus the enormous fossil energy which we in this country control feeds machines which make each of us master of an army of mechanical slaves. Man’s muscle power is rated at 35 watts continuously, or one-twentieth horsepower. Machines therefore furnish every American industrial worker with energy equivalent to that of 244 men, while at least 2,000 men push his automobile along the road, and his family is supplied with 33 faithful household helpers. Each locomotive engineer controls energy equivalent to that of 100,000 men; each jet pilot of 700,000 men. Truly, the humblest American enjoys the services of more slaves than were once owned by the richest nobles, and lives better than most ancient kings. In retrospect, and despite wars, revolutions, and disasters, the hundred years just gone by may well seem like a Golden Age.
    /snip
    Today the automobile is the most uneconomical user of energy. Its efficiency is 5% compared with 23% for the Diesel-electric railway. It is the most ravenous devourer of fossil fuels, accounting for over half of the total oil consumption in this country. And the oil we use in the United States in one year took nature about 14 million years to create. Curiously, the automobile, which is the greatest single cause of the rapid exhaustion of oil reserves, may eventually be the first fuel consumer to suffer. Reduction in automotive use would necessitate an extraordinarily costly reorganization of the pattern of living in industrialized nations, particularly in the United States. It would seem prudent to bear this in mind in future planning of cities and industrial locations.
    /snip
    I suggest that this is a good time to think soberly about our responsibilities to our descendents – those who will ring out the Fossil Fuel Age. Our greatest responsibility, as parents and as citizens, is to give America’s youngsters the best possible education. We need the best teachers and enough of them to prepare our young people for a future immeasurably more complex than the present, and calling for ever larger numbers of competent and highly trained men and women. This means that we must not delay building more schools, colleges, and playgrounds. It means that we must reconcile ourselves to continuing higher taxes to build up and maintain at decent salaries a greatly enlarged corps of much better trained teachers, even at the cost of denying ourselves such momentary pleasures as buying a bigger new car, or a TV set, or household gadget. We should find – I believe – that these small self-denials would be far more than offset by the benefits they would buy for tomorrow’s America. We might even – if we wanted – give a break to these youngsters by cutting fuel and metal consumption a little here and there so as to provide a safer margin for the necessary adjustments which eventually must be made in a world without fossil fuels.
    / end quotes
    The full text can be found at:
    http://www.energybulletin.net/node/23151
    Err, apparently no one wanted to hear the message back in 1957 either. All we did was bring out bigger tailfins on cars :(
    Apologies for the length of this post.

  77. Nudge June 21, 2010 at 8:08 pm #

    Tree, you’ve just proved an excellent one: misery loves company.
    What a shame you both don’t live in the same trailer park.

  78. treebeardsuncle June 21, 2010 at 8:32 pm #

    Nudge said:
    “Tancred, fyi, the whack-job racist nutcases usually wait until later in the week before taking over this space with their spewage.”
    Am here already as is VK. Another regular or two should show up before long.
    Nudge wrote:
    “At least have the decency to footnote your postings with something saying that less than 5% of white people believe in this sh!te and that your views are from an extreme far-right part of the spectrum, somewhere between Hitler and Pat Buchanan. And if you ever clue up and decide to become a member of the human race, why, please feel free to go explain yourself to the Southern Poverty Law Center. They’d love to hear from you.”
    My dear, dear lady, the number is much higher than 5%.
    See the following link:
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1991/02/index.html
    *****
    ‘Clinging to Stereotypes’
    On the other hand, once Portland School Superintendent Matthews is away from the reporters, he may well indulge in an occasional subversive thought about racial differences — at least if he is like the majority of Americans. According to the latest poll by the National Opinion Research Survey, 53% of whites think that blacks are less intelligent than whites. Seventy-eight percent think blacks are less reluctant than whites to be on welfare, 62% think they are less hard-working, and 56% think they are more prone to violence.
    Hispanics don’t come off very well either. Fifty-five percent of whites think Hispanics are less intelligent than whites, 50% think they are more prone to violence, and 56% think they are less hard-working.
    These are the results of face-to-face interviews with 1,372 adults. We wonder if there might have been an even larger proportion of politically incorrect answers if the questioning had been confidential.
    Larry Bobo of the University of California at Los Angeles, who helped design and conduct the survey, made the usual clucking noises about how whites still cling to stereotypes. Mr. Bobo, of course, is clinging to his own illusions — at least in public.
    *****
    This comment was just an ad hominem smear:
    “Doesn’t the KKK or the Tea Party (aka the Klan Lite) have some forum of their own where you and your fellow pudgy white over-50 minority pinheads can congratulate yourselves on being masters of the universe?”
    Could it be that you pc feminist saint are engaging in stereotyping here.
    You politically correct pseudo liberals have taken over the school system and have an undue influence in America and Europe due to certain legal precedents and the threat of law-suits, but your opinions are by no means in the majority. In this venue, you will find little institutional support to sustain you. Also, to gain enlightenment I suggest you take a vacation in dowtown Detroit, Oakland, or St. Louis, visit the town of Compton or the countries of Zaire, Angola, Sudan, or Haiti. The egalitarian fantasies will soon come under significant opposition when genetic studies showing the lack of key features needed for more developed intelligence are shown to be lacking from sub-Saharan African populations.
    Incidentally, I am an elitist, collectivist, meritocracist, anti-corporatist, and evironmentalist, as well a racist.

  79. treebeardsuncle June 21, 2010 at 8:33 pm #

    For your information, there are many rich, well-educated, and snobbish racists out there. My parents own places near the American River. We would not set foot in a trailer part.

  80. Grouchy Old Girl June 21, 2010 at 8:49 pm #

    That was a most illuminating speech from the old military leader in 1957, thank you for sharing that. Expect he took a lot of heat for such outrageous talk.
    Someone else noted how much of what was predicted from the 70’s onward was ridiculed by the media and the masses, and it’s not much comfort to those of us who were saying it to be proven right. In my own community I’ve been laughed at and reviled by some of the mainstream folks around me. These are the same ones who drop their gaze when they see me now, and I know they’re wondering how a crazed old socialist broad, an uppity female if you will, could have been so right on so many issues.
    Sometimes I wish I’d been wrong all along if that would get us out of the mess we created for ourselves and our descendents. All I know is my grandchildren did nothing to deserve the living hell their lives may become in the not too distant future.
    No doubt if they survive they may be better off in the long run. Time will tell…..

  81. Nudge June 21, 2010 at 8:52 pm #

    Tree wrote: “For your information, there are many rich, well-educated, and snobbish racists out there.”
    Perhaps this is one of those YMMV-type things. The vast majority of racists I’ve met are dirt-poor either financially, or intellectually, or morally .. or perhaps all three at the same time. This includes the two I’ve met who’ve written for AR. I don’t begrudge them the comfort of small-mindedly feeling that they don’t like anyone who isn’t just like them .. why, that’s the very essence of the same sort of small-unit clannishness that’s made Appalachia famous throughout the States.

  82. Nudge June 21, 2010 at 9:00 pm #

    G.O. Girl, you sound like quite the pioneer .. kudos to you! :)
    When it comes to clusterf*cking, we humans do it like it’s nobody’s business. Perhaps our most grievously oft-repeated sin in this regard is to blithely assume we know things that we do not in fact know. A whole lot of that, on the part of a great many people (as alluded to in last weeks’ commentary, the vast majority of them were highly-educated rich white males graded as ‘intelligent’ by the standards of society) is what’s brought us to the present predicament.

  83. treebeardsuncle June 21, 2010 at 9:17 pm #

    What you say is largely true. However, this article indicates such views are far from a minority in even American society.
    Surveying the Survey Results
    Press accounts of white “prejudice” should have been headlined, “Poll rates Southerners lower than Jews and Asians.”
    by William Robertson Boggs
    In the February issue of American Renaissance we mentioned a recent survey on racial “stereotypes” that prompted considerable clucking in the press about persistent white “racism.” It was widely reported, for example, that a majority of whites think that blacks and Hispanics are less intelligent, more prone to violence, and less hard-working than whites.
    Newspaper accounts mentioned that the survey also included questions about Jews, Asians, and Southern whites, but gave scarcely any indication of the results. We have since obtained this data and think some of it worth passing along.
    The survey worked like this: Researchers asked 1,372 adult Americans, face to face, how they would rate different racial groups in terms of intelligence, patriotism, wealth, etc. The ratings were on a scale of one to seven, and the average ratings for whites were established as the base line (zero on the graphs to the left). Any group that had an average rating higher than the average for whites got a positive score for that trait, and any group with an average rating lower than that for whites got a negative score.
    Thus, to take the first graph, the people surveyed rated Jews, on average, as nearly 0.2 points (on the seven-point scale) more intelligent than whites, and blacks as more than 0.8 points less intelligent than whites. The other graphs show how the survey group compared other races to whites on several other traits: whether they were non-violent or violence prone, self-supporting or willing to live on welfare, patriotic or unpatriotic, hard-working or lazy, and rich or poor. In all cases, a positive score means that the survey subjects rated the group better than whites, and a negative score means that they rated the group worse than whites.
    Indeed, blacks and Hispanics are at the bottom of the heap on all counts, except for patriotism, in which Asians share bottom honors with Hispanics. Nevertheless, low ratings for blacks and Hispanics should surprise no one. Only the very ignorant could think that they have more money than whites, for example, though the survey managed to find a few such people — 3.8 percent thought that blacks are richer than whites and 6.0 percent thought Hispanics are.
    The question about violence, at least as it relates to blacks, should be just as clear cut. Black men are easily the most violent group in the nation, and commit murder at ten times the rate white men do. Their assault rates are higher still. This didn’t keep 13.9 percent of respondents from saying that blacks are less violence-prone than whites.
    Likewise, on the subject of intelligence, despite determined efforts in the media to discredit IQ testing and the very notion of IQ, many people know that blacks and Hispanics get low scores. Those who do not know about IQ scores are likely to draw private conclusions from the conditions in which blacks and Hispanics are seen to live.
    On the other hand, no matter how overwhelming the evidence for different racial characteristics may be, today’s social dogmas have officially eliminated them by fiat. In some respects, it is remarkable that over 70 percent of all respondents said they thought blacks and Hispanics more likely than whites to prefer living on welfare, and that more than 53 percent were brave enough to say that blacks and Hispanics are less intelligent. In some cases, the answers are less a test of what a survey subject actually thought than a test of what he dared say to a stranger in a face-to-face interview.
    The surprises, if there are any, are in how Americans rate Jews, Asians, and Southern whites. Despite their constant chatter about “anti-Semitism,” Jews were the only group to get higher ratings than whites, and they managed this in every single category but patriotism. Southern whites, on the other hand, were rated well below Jews in every category but patriotism, and were even rated lower than Asians in half the categories, including the crucial one of intelligence. At least in the South, the headlines on the press accounts should have read, “Poll rates Southerners lower than Jews and Asians,” but racial convention required that the entirely predictable assessments of blacks and Hispanics be highlighted.
    Finally, the entire survey is complicated by the fact that the 1,372 respondents reflect the current racial mix in the United States. Non-whites are less likely to rate themselves as worse than whites, so an all-white survey population would probably have produced even more negative values. Nevertheless, it is fascinating to note that 30 percent of blacks said they thought blacks were less intelligent than whites, and 35 percent of Hispanics likewise rated themselves as less intelligent than whites. Here again are interesting results that are not likely to be widely reported. AR
    The survey was conducted by the National Opinion Research Center of the University of Chicago, with a grant from the National Science Foundation.
    • • • BACK TO TOP • • •

  84. Nudge June 21, 2010 at 9:18 pm #

    Err, thanks, racists, for phrasing something the way you did. You’ve made me think.
    I don’t like this thing personally, but I cannot deny that a certain number of people can quite easily decide that they don’t like people who aren’t just like them. This happens all the time and seems to be bred right into the nature of many, sorry as it is. Only a fool would deny that we are obviously not created equal, or even equivalent.
    The problem arises when these fairly low-level and simplistic differences are rationalized and turned into something else, and then those something-else things get turned into programs, and then those programs are put to use deciding who’s more of a person than who. Tree, if you and the rest of the KKK-lite Teabagger Brigade were to come right out and say that you’ve been protesting president Obama all this time because you just don’t like black people, it would be a remarkable piece of honesty on your part, and it might even lead to some helpful discussion.
    Instead, what seems fully universal among any sub-group practicing racist beliefs is that they rearrange those minor racial-type differences so as to stack themselves on the side labeled ‘superior’, with the others on the side labeled ‘inferior’. You cannot deny the prevalence of this type of behavior among racists of all cultures and ethnicities, regardless of what color their skin is. Japanese do it to Chinese, Chinese to Japanese, whites to blacks, blacks to whites, hispanics to blacks, blacks to hispanics, on and on it goes. I mean, have you ever talked with a person (of the minority you don’t like) who’s said to you, “Gee, you’re right, I’m so inferior, why don’t I just move back to [insert mother/fatherland nation name]?” Nobody on either side of any racial argument casts him or herself as the inferior. Get it? This is proof positive of the nonsensical nature of this pursuit. Sheesh, why not argue on the basis of which end you like to crack your hard-boiled eggs?
    Please, just put the BS aside and admit you just don’t like [insert ethnicity]. It would be far more honest than what you’ve been saying so far.

  85. treebeardsuncle June 21, 2010 at 9:23 pm #

    Actually, I do not approve of the Tea Bag folks.
    (Note in this link http://exiledonline.com/teagagged-tea-party-protest-silenced-over-organizers-links-to-2008-drill-here-drill-now-astroturf-campaign/
    that the movement was started by Koch Oil industries.)
    I voted for Obama because he was more intelligent and a better speaker than McCain, and I was tired of the moron war-monger way of doing things.
    The racism you are talking about is a kind of tribalism and it is not solely associated with the unintelligent and lower class.

  86. Nudge June 21, 2010 at 9:27 pm #

    To continue along those lines .. these days you can find any number of older, conservative white people circulating emails to each other saying how awful it is that Mexicans get across the border to CA and find conditions better there than they did back home. The usual intent of these emails is to drum up support to increase border security, or, too much of the time, to simply get people angry & frightened.
    Just try exposing those same older, conservative white people to made-up rumors that Swedes, Norwegians, Germans, and Danes are quietly sneaking across the Canadian border into the northern states to obtain better living conditions than they’d get back home. You can make the rumor sound more real by adding something about those “high taxes under socialism” or “family size limits”.
    It’s so interesting to see what a 180-degree emotional backflip these same people undergo when the “illegals sneaking across the border” are of the same skin color as them. It exposes the racist nature of that which they were masquerading as a political issue. Again, it would be far more honest of them to simply admit they don’t like brown-skinned people, and leave it at that .. but noooooo, they’ve got to pretend it’s “border security” instead.
    There’s a whole lot of growing-up and facing-reality that needs to be done here. Yes, not everything is what we would personally like it to be like – and nor will or should it be. Deal with it.

  87. Nudge June 21, 2010 at 9:28 pm #

    Tree, sorry for connecting you with the Teabaggers. You just seem to sound an awful lot like them in terms of what you’re saying.

  88. Belisarius June 21, 2010 at 10:26 pm #

    Jim – BP has more serious saftey citations than all other major oil companies doing business in the US combined. I have heard from reliable sources that they “adjusted” the blowout preventer

  89. Belisarius June 21, 2010 at 10:29 pm #

    ZEN17 – I agree. Most areas within 200 miles of the gulf coast will be uninhabitable by August. (were you wondering what all those FEMA camps were for?) Interestingly enough this was predicted by the web bot guys @ http://halfpasthuman.com/ (i have no connection with them)

  90. Belisarius June 21, 2010 at 10:32 pm #

    Paul Kemp – hmmm… Major war. A bit early i think. 1780, 1860, 1940, 2020? +/- 5 yr of 80 yr cycle. (WWI though “major” was apparently optional for US according to this cycle, but there is tendency for minor war at the 40 yr mark +/-3yr) I hope you’re wrong and it doesn’t show up early.

  91. Belisarius June 21, 2010 at 10:38 pm #

    Al Klein – We have both a large SUV and a large 4WD pickup and have no intention of replacing them. We don’t commute, they are not new, and our total mileage is under 6K per year. We do use our bicycles. The pickup was most recently used for hauling 6 tons (3 trips) of organic compost for our new gardens. Its next use will be hauling 15 cords of firewood down the skidder path from our newly cleared goat pasture. It gets about 30 such uses per year, not counting plowing about 2 miles of our “driveways” in winter. Yes, someday we might have horses, after the goats turn raw land into hayfields to feed them, but meanwhile we need the pickup. The SUV is used even less and carries enough emergency gear that we can live out of (or in) it for two weeks minimum should we be stranded or forced to evacuate. I don’t feel a bit guilty about either of them.

  92. world awry June 21, 2010 at 10:59 pm #

    Jim, perhaps your contraction theory will be a non-issue. One quart of oil contaminates 250,000 gallon of water to the point of micro organism destruction. Once that commences another group of eco-system dependent organisms begin collapsing like a chain reaction, then the BP thing will become an earth altering event. BP was drilling beyond the cutting edge of technology with arrogant confidence, now how to close down a run-away well which can produce 10’s of thousands of psi in a 20″ diameter pipe 5000ft underwater is beyond our scientific reaches to resolve. We may face some mild to major human extinction as a result. I own a gas field that only has 1000 psi with an 8″ casing and believe me it is nothing to play with. Water is seperated from the gas and if it has more than 8parts/million contamination it has to be re-injected via an injection well into the same zone it came from. Water with more than 8 parts/million contamination can kill a stream. A little can destroy a lot in the world of nature.

  93. Belisarius June 21, 2010 at 11:29 pm #

    sorry not qualified to opine on the probability of the methane bubble hypothesis. I seems quite apocalyptic to me. However i have stumbled upon a slightly less dire hypothesis. Perhaps they drilled into a forming asphalt volcano??
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphalt_volcano
    by accident?? or on purpose??
    http://www.hiddenmysteries.net/gltest/article.php?story=20100620184415669

  94. Ang June 21, 2010 at 11:39 pm #

    Sorry, Jim, gotta disagree with you, Obama & OH Governor Ted Strickland on the Cleveland-Columbus-Dayton-Cincy train idea. And I’m a Democrat.
    Who the hell wants to travel to any of the cities on this proposed train line? I sure don’t!
    The only possible benefit that I can see is that folks can start commuting to Columbus competing for jobs in the sole remaining city in the state with a decent economy, which will then begin to make Columbus look like all of the other cities in the state.
    What we really need is local light rail. So that all of us who go to work 5 days a week have an option other than cranking up the old gas guzzler.
    That’s a pipe dream.

  95. wagelaborer June 22, 2010 at 1:23 am #

    I don’t know about the possibility you raise, but here’s a take on the speculations-
    http://xkcd.com/748/

  96. Patrizia June 22, 2010 at 1:52 am #

    “We live as though we will live on forever.”
    It is exactly the opposite.
    We live as if we knew we are going to die and soon too.
    Debts will never be paid, pollution won´t bother us.
    We get as much as we can, as fast as we can “Apres moi the Deluge”, but who cares, I won´t be there anyhow…

  97. asoka June 22, 2010 at 2:38 am #

    Wage,
    Beautiful, concise, and devastating media criticism! Thanks for sharing it!
    http://xkcd.com/748/

  98. Mrhw June 22, 2010 at 2:43 am #

    Actually, every president since Nixon has adminished the nation to ween ourselves off foreign oil. The Daily Show had a hilarioua and intersting piece on this if you have not seen it already. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future

  99. wagelaborer June 22, 2010 at 2:59 am #

    Somehow, I don’t know how, I ended up being Facebook friends with two African-American guys from Atlanta.
    To my horror, I found out tonight that they were conservatives!!
    Aaahh! What’s up with that? That’s like my co-worker, who is oh-so-proud of being a Black Republican.
    Anyway, you would like the website.
    http://www.bookerrising.net/

  100. Shakazulu June 22, 2010 at 3:07 am #

    Atlanta the south’s Detroit? How can I get there? I will definitely need some of that free money once the working class goes belly up trying to pay taxes to the welfare state.
    I think Tancred said “this is what I see looking out my window.” That’s called vision not racism.

  101. Eleuthero June 22, 2010 at 3:46 am #

    Peak Oil? Peak Water? Peak Food?
    What Jim’s talking about is ….
    Peak DENIAL.
    I don’t know what it is about the
    new proletarian mentality but after
    the go-go ’90s when everyone was
    making 25% a year in stocks and
    their house was an ATM machine,
    people that USED to be sentient
    and talk about stuff no longer
    want to.
    It’s “negative”, you see. I’ll bet
    that at least half the participants
    in this blog have tried arguing with
    allegedly intelligent people, many
    with advanced degrees, and they just
    issue: “Well, I just **feel** you are
    wrong”. You just get this hand-wave
    which dispels all your data and your
    carefully crafted arguments.
    The stock-in-trade argument of the
    “advanced idiocracy” is that technology
    has always bailed us out before, therefore
    it’ll inevitably do so in the future.
    Right. With the minds coming out of
    America’s current public schools?
    Cheesis K. Reist … even newly minted
    Ph.D.’s now strike me as academic-paper-
    writing automata with specialties as
    germane as the sex life of the tse-tse
    fly.
    The BP disaster is the most ominous
    warning we’re going to be LUCKY to get.
    We’ve been surfing the luck plane for
    a very long time but that wave crested
    about 1995. It’s hard to surf on dry
    ground … unless it’s soaked with
    DWH oil. :-) :-)
    E.

  102. rocco June 22, 2010 at 3:52 am #

    No worries Jim, here in good olde Rochester,NY former home of manufacturing, we are dealing with the ills of our big slide by supporting with yearly tax money bail out of sport sstadiums, and a couple of performing houses,but still no recovery, so now we will build with more tax money another big theatre and a huge, massive bus station that will create jobs. The multiple shootings and stabbings continue to rise not only in the city but in the burbs, as each group blames the others. Jobs bleed away and any mention of peak oil is covered up by the local “newspaper” and shouted down by the ruling right wingers in the county and the left wingers in the city. I sit back watch the play unfold while drinking my fluroide city drinking water mixed in with Crystal light. It’s all good.

  103. asoka June 22, 2010 at 3:55 am #

    Tancredo needs news glasses if he looks out and sees minorities on welfare forever.

    Most welfare recipients are non-black, adult and on welfare less than two years at a time. Whites form the largest racial group on welfare.
    http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfareblack.htm
    Blacks comprise only 12 percent of the nation, but, according to the above figures, they comprise 37 percent of the welfare rolls. This should not be surprising; in 1994, blacks had a poverty rate of 33 percent. We should not, of course, think it unusual to find poor people on welfare.
    The most prevalent question is why there are so many blacks in poverty. Liberals argue that it is the result of continuing racism and discrimination, especially at hiring time.
    Conservatives have argued a variety of other causes: moral shortcomings, poor work ethic, even intellectual inferiority.

  104. Eleuthero June 22, 2010 at 4:10 am #

    Oh, good Lord, Asoka. Do you think
    that 37% rate of welfare collecting
    in the black community issues forth
    from the cosmic vacuum?? They don’t
    like to GET EDUCATED.
    Discrimination? Are you kidding me?
    If you’re black and applying for
    pretty much ANY public sector job
    in the nation, from teaching to
    driving municipal buses, you’ve got
    one-and-a-half feet already in the
    door.
    If you’re a white, middle-aged male
    in the public sector you’re about
    as welcome as leprosy. If you’re
    a black/Latino transgender on five
    psychiatric meds you’re in like
    Flint.
    E.

  105. ghostlimb June 22, 2010 at 5:09 am #

    “There is no techno-miracle alt-fuel panoply waiting in the wings to take over from oil.”
    While it would seem self-evident that alternatives to oil are a way off from full substitution, I wonder if certain renewables applied strategically can impact energy consumption in greater ways than are commonly understood.
    The solar thermal array in Nevada Solar One currently powers 13k homes using 300 acres of desert (how ironic it would be proximate to Vegas). I recall Acciona Energy (the solar array uses technology and expertise by the Spanish firm Acciona – reflector glass made and shipped to Nevada from Germany) saying that only 10% of the federally owned land in the Mojave would power the entire U.S.. Perhaps this requires a smart grid, but it would appear to be among the more promising renewable “substitutes”… and therein lies the rub.
    If a renewable is to strategically mutate and invade the immune system that is our collective oil egosystem-culture, the rubric de-coder must attack the weakest link – what might it be?… plastics? — agri-business/fertilizers? — roads/asphalt/truck transport? — one car/truck using sector? — often the renewables advocates fail to focus on exactly which oil-vulnerable faction, which face of the multi-headed hydra is most susceptible.
    Without a larger-scale proof-of-concept, renewables linger in political+cultural confusion among the general public (even among many thought leaders), easily allowing citizens to believe it’s all tilting at windmills, better to pop another pork rind and watch Access Hollywood… or worse, believe somehow, some way Oprah will figure it all out.

  106. Nudge June 22, 2010 at 5:47 am #

    Eluthero wrote to Asoka: “If you’re a white, middle-aged male in the public sector you’re about as welcome as leprosy. If you’re a black/Latino transgender on five psychiatric meds you’re in like Flint.”
    Got links? Or is this something you heard from Rush Limbaugh or his Kentucky-cousin-in-arms Glenn Beck? C’mon, show some hard facts please if this is what you insist is happening. Otherwise please take this garbage over to the Bircher forum. You’ll find more sympathy there.
    You too are proving the “misery loves company” theory. I can imagine the bunch of you closeted and not-so-closeted pudgy older white racists enjoying the companionship down at your end of the trailer park. Every day, it would be a matter of piling into someone’s Suburban or Ram crew cab for the 80-yard ride to the shuffleboard court, then later a stop at the store for a 24-pack of the cheapest possible beer, then it’s back to your place for an afternoon of reminiscing, in the back yard, about “how things were so good” when nobody talked back to white males, when the minorities had their own bathrooms and were required to get off the sidewalks for you, and when women stayed in the kitchen all day long and wore heels around the house.
    Wake up, mister. 1956 isn’t coming back no matter how much you might wish it. That you keep trying to impose the outmoded 1956 social-expectations template onto the present situation, and then think “something’s wrong” when it doesn’t fit, is by no means indicative of the present situation being wrong.
    (oh, and whatever you’re using for a text input method is adding hard returns .. you might want to just let it wrap the text instead)

  107. SNAFU June 22, 2010 at 7:24 am #

    “you’re in like Flint” ?????
    Perhaps you were reaching for:
    “you’re in like Flynn”; as in Errol
    SNAFU

  108. Max June 22, 2010 at 7:56 am #

    More valid and lucid insights, Jim.
    I’ve been in Southern California on business this week. Long known as the cradle of “Happy Motoring,” it’s starting to fray around the edges as the result of California’s budget woes; the state’s ability to maintain its massive highway infrastructure is in jeopardy. When I first visited the area some 30 years ago, the roads were impeccable – almost glistening – in their smoothness. Now, it appears that deferred maintenance is taking its toll.
    The locals I spoke with seem remote and aloof from the inevitable outcomes of these events. However as the price of energy ratchets up, the unfortunate miasma that is Southern California will be evident.

  109. budizwiser June 22, 2010 at 8:45 am #

    JK, there were not any metaphors regarding anyone “walking a plank” or being keel “hauled?” – shucks I don’t know any good sailor talk – ‘cept four-letter words.
    Anywho – what’s the deal with looking to Obama? Why expect anything of substance from the “top-down?”
    Are not most of our impending – no dire – straits the result of the systems that bring us the Bush’s and the Obama’s?
    What I would really want to know is how, when where will any of the “real” choices, the “real dilemma” be presented? And how will the general “American public” receive the news?
    Will anyone here at CF Nation illuminate or otherwise help distinguish any divergence between our Federal Government’s activities and reality?
    For instance, I never have thought it is a good idea for a government to spend more than it has, yet you say “choo-choos” are needed immediately.
    You say we all have to learn to “get local” – yet you continue your travels by air. How about taking the bus next time, or a ship if going overseas?
    I guess what I am trying to journal is just what, where and how will any governing body start turning the screws to the American public?
    Please, JK, just what these first “steps away” from the “happy motoring public.?
    Where is the 55mph speed limit, the tax on drive-through businesses, the excise tax on recreational activities that use petroleum for no other reason but to move players from city to city or drive cars or boats in circles?
    OK, so how does Obama or anyone take on highway drivers, the fast food industry, all national sporting industries and everything else that uses fuel “just for kicks?
    So how does it start?

  110. shecky June 22, 2010 at 11:49 am #

    Coburn vs Flynn.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061810/

  111. Qshtik June 22, 2010 at 12:11 pm #

    (oh, and whatever you’re using for a text input method is adding hard returns .. you might want to just let it wrap the text instead)
    ================
    Nudge, I made this suggestion to Eleuthero a few months ago to no avail. I concluded he wanted his posts to have the appearance of published poetry.
    But, as to the content of the post, I empathize. What I am noticing about Eleut and others like him who have traveled a similar path in life (e.g. Treebeard) namely as teachers – where they see firsthand the dumbing down of society and have had to deal with the lowest forms of Black youth culture and, to make it all the more galling, White youth copycats … a culture so repulsive and alien to their own – they simply lose it and go hyperbolic in describing it. I am thinking at this moment of a friend (Carol, a non-religious Jew) who taught middle grades in the public school system here in NJ for nearly 40 years and retired a couple years ago. She likened the effort to Sisyphus pushing his rock. Her tales from the trenches are essentially identical to Eleut’s and Tree’s. The weight lifted from her shoulders upon retirement was palpable. Carol now devotes a lot of time on the internet doing whatever she can to bring down Obama. Until recently, a Jew turning against a democrat in these parts was an extreme rarity.
    My own 40 years in the work world were spent among educated adults – very few with less than a college degree – so I have been shielded to a degree from the worst of the culture clash described by these teachers.

  112. shecky June 22, 2010 at 12:21 pm #

    I lived in Atlanta 15 years, long enough to recognize the black urban underclass as being pretty accurately observed in the much-disputed post above. I also worked with plenty of black folks who found such behavior as appalling as I did, and in fact judged the knuckleheads so described in much harsher terms than I ever did. However, the caucasian strain is amply represented at this stratum, just not in downtown ATL. Just toodle up Buford Highway to Norcross or take a run down to College Park. Jerry Springer Nation encompasses all races.
    I now live in Sunnyslope, a part of Phoenix that contains a robust sample of poor, uneducated, illegal Mexicans. Gotta say they pull it off better than Atlanta blacks or trailer park whites. Mostly you see families, with adults supervising children, children being escorted to and from school bus stops by parents, dads at least trying to find work in the Home Depot parking lots. Except for the illegal origin of their presence here, they appear to be law-abiding folk, possibly out of fear of deportation. It is too bad that they do not belong here, broke the law to get here, and are overwhelming our schools, hospitals, and blue collar trades at a time when revenues are falling and jobs are scarce.
    Personally, I would end all immigration. We have too many people here, regardless of racial or national origin. Sorry things suck elsewhere. If we do not close the door they will suck here too. Ed Abbey said it right years ago. (Full Text here): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×8082521
    “To everything there is a season, to every wave a limit, to every range an optimum capacity. The United States has been fully settled, and more than full, for at least a century. We have nothing to gain, and everything to lose, by allowing the old boat to be swamped. How many of us, truthfully, would prefer to be submerged in the Caribbean-Latin version of civilization? (Howls of “Racism! Elitism! Xenophobia!” from the Marx brothers and the documented liberals.) Harsh words: but somebody has to say them. We cannot play “let’s pretend” much longer, not in the present world.
    Therefore-let us close our national borders to any further mass immigration, legal or illegal, from any source, as does every other nation on earth. The means are available, it’s a simple technical-military problem. Even our Pentagon should be able to handle it. We’ve got an army somewhere on this planet, let’s bring our soldiers home and station them where they can be of some actual and immediate benefit to the taxpayers who support them. That done, we can begin to concentrate attention on badly neglected internal affairs. Our internal affairs. Everyone would benefit, including the neighbors. Especially the neighbors. Ah yes. But what about those hungry hundreds of millions, those anxious billions, yearning toward the United States from every dark and desperate corner of the world? Shall we simply ignore them? Reject them? Is such a course possible?
    “Poverty,” said Samuel Johnson, “is the great enemy of human happiness. It certainly destroys liberty, makes some virtues impracticable, and all virtues extremely difficult.”
    You can say that again, Sam.
    Poverty, injustice, over breeding, overpopulation, suffering, oppression, military rule, squalor, torture, terror, massacre: these ancient evils feed and breed on one another in synergistic symbiosis. To break the cycles of pain at least two new forces are required: social equity – and birth control. Population control. Our Hispanic neighbors are groping toward this discovery. If we truly wish to help them we must stop meddling in their domestic troubles and permit them to carry out the social, political, and moral revolution which is both necessary and inevitable.
    Or if we must meddle, as we have always done, let us meddle for a change in a constructive way. Stop every campesino at our southern border, give him a handgun, a good rifle, and a case of ammunition, and send him home. He will know what to do with our gifts and good wishes. The people know who their enemies are.”

  113. budizwiser June 22, 2010 at 12:27 pm #

    “The people know who their enemies are.”
    Nice post – up until that last statement.
    Nothing could be farther (further) from the truth!!!

  114. shecky June 22, 2010 at 12:35 pm #

    I think most Mexicans know exactly who their enemies are. They also know how powerful their enemies are, and given the option to head to El Norte they choose what is clearly the safer, easier path. As long as we act as Latin America’s blowout preventer, sufficient pressure for meaningful change will never build. Mexico has a splendid tradition of Revolution, and they are overdue. Might even set a meaningful example for us Yanquis.
    Now, if you are referring to our fellow Americans, I might agree. I will spare you the familiar summation from Walt Kelly.
    BTW, “El Norte” is a great flick about Latin migrants.

  115. ozone June 22, 2010 at 12:39 pm #

    Another brilliantly poetic, reality scare-fest by JHK. (Yep, reality is scary, and it’s gonna get much scarier, shortly.)
    Let’s start by facing the venality of both our “leaders” and the general populace. NOBODY wants the party to end! It’s a country full of “eight-m’s”, and things will continue in dog-and-pony-show mode until they don’t. That’s when the panic starts, and folks finally get to try out their [various] true-believer-ship[s]. Sure, I’ve got mine too, but I’m very flexible about it, and it’s strictly about trade and personal relations, which (as we all know) are changeable as the wind. My personal/family/community survival plans are really none of your business; if you’re not getting busy yourself, you’re not paying attention.
    As far as the strange (to me) racial/eugenic attitudes, I would propose that they’re kinda on the “irrelevant” side in this whole collapse thingy, IMHO. Having met a LOT of people with a LOT of differing ideas over the years, it has intuitively occurred to me that people hold the views they do because they see an inherent advantage for themselves in holding them. (Kinda, duh, eh? Takes me a while. ;o) ) Until that view is shown to be dis-advantageous or ultimately, deadly, it will continue to be held. (I’m not sure, but it seems to me that a race war/sterilization program is being hoped for; a convenient way to pare down the numbers competing for scarce resources. Have I an inkling in the general direction? I think I do…)
    JHK is well aware of the population overshoot paradigm; he just doesn’t feel the need to belabor that [thoroughly obvious] point. I think it was in an e-mail reply for one of the “daily grunt-s”.
    Good luck, all…
    “…don’t follow leaders; watch the parking meters.” Or however that goes; yes TPTB will try to squeeze every last penny out of every last sucker via impossible taxation, ‘afore falling into the abyss of perpetual irrelevancy. It’s happening everywhere.

  116. Grouchy Old Girl June 22, 2010 at 12:46 pm #

    Just read an article in the Toronto Daily Star (that’s Ontario, Canada) that really got my head spinning.
    It seems the oil companies are taking Obama to court to challenge his 6 month ban on off shore drilling. That doesn’t surprise me, what does is their reason for doing it: they are claiming there is not enough oil under solid ground to keep “us” going that long without off shore drilling.
    Say what? The big deniers of Peak Oil are using it to justify their greedy demand for more drilling and more profits?
    Having said it, how will they ever take it back later when they again want to deny its existence? Will they say they were wrong? That they were lying to justify their need for profit?
    Seriously, how the hell will they ever stuff that cat back into the bag? I would love to hear what other posters think of that, it’s doing my head in!

  117. shecky June 22, 2010 at 1:01 pm #

    “Seriously, how the hell will they ever stuff that cat back into the bag?”
    Just leave it to the professionals, GOG. A crack team of cat-baggers is enroute.

  118. helen highwater June 22, 2010 at 1:19 pm #

    Bob Herbert’s editorial today in the New York Times is titled When Greatness Slips Away. He says “As a nation, we are becoming more and more accustomed to a sense of helplessness. We no longer rise to the great challenges before us. It’s not just that we can’t plug the oil leak, which is the perfect metaphor for what we’ve become. We can’t seem to do much of anything.”
    Sounds like he’s been reading JHK.

  119. Qshtik June 22, 2010 at 1:26 pm #

    A crack team of cat-baggers is enroute.
    ====================
    No problem. The team of cat-baggers will take a page from Asoka’s playbook. They will say:
    Do I contradict myself? Well then I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes.

  120. gogreenordi June 22, 2010 at 1:31 pm #

    Asoka, one of the guilty parties in the continuing story of black poverty is the “black leadership”, and perhaps it’s the most guilty party. Let’s look at just one issue: Brown v. Board of Education. What if instead of demanding access to White shcools, the black leadership undetook the “manhattan project” of instilling the value of learning and education within the Black culture, and achieved such excellence in education that White parents WANTED to send their kids to Black schools? What if the Black leadership undertook to evangelize education, skills, work, and other positive cultural aspects of mainstream America among Black parents? What if Black leadership undertook to drive down retrograde currents within Black America such as welfare dependency (including mindless breeding), violence, Rap/Hiphop, obsession with sports, etc?
    This surely would’ve meant more progress than any Government-enforced policies. You should have the integrity to admit that the Blacks themselves are hugely responsible for their plight in America. Look at indigent immigrants from, say, Vietnam, who encountered similar bias and bigotry in America, but in one generation surpassed the Blacks in a giant leap.
    What do you say about the dismal failure of the Black leadership?

  121. gogreenordi June 22, 2010 at 1:51 pm #

    Shecky, if you want to collect on your Social Security, better re-think your idea of no immigration. Immigrants may be our only chance to finance Social Security and Medicare in the next 30 years. However, it doesn’t have to be mindless immigration we’ve had in the past. How about we actually INVITE immigrants who have any/all of the following: education, training, skills, capital, or just plain old hard work culture who can turn these Killing Fields of Detroit into liveable neighborhoods again. Other countries have immigration categories where people with substantial capital are invited to come in, start businesses, employ people, etc. Once upon a time Chinese workers built railroads in America. Why not again? They have an excess of people willing to work hard, we have a need for cheap labor to build urban rail corridors and walkable cities, a perfect match, don’t you think? Along the same thinking, how about a mandatory draft of all unemployed Americans 18-25 (most crime-prone age) into something similar to the good old Civilian COnservation Core to build urban piblic transport ifrastructure (subways, sidewalks, bikeways, light rail, covered passenger shelters with benches — in other words what Europeans have)?
    I’d guess a 10% cut of the Military budget should fund that…

  122. gogreenordi June 22, 2010 at 1:54 pm #

    “The people know who their enemies are.”
    “Nothing could be farther (further) from the truth!!!”
    OK, how about a hint?

  123. Cash June 22, 2010 at 2:02 pm #

    I’ve heard that there have been govt job postings up here north of the border that basically said that white men need not apply.
    I suppose this was in the interest of increasing non-white, non male representation in the civil service.
    IMO racial and gender job quotas are an evil regardless of your motives.
    Here’s an interesting thing. You may or may not know that Canuck troops are in combat in Afghanistan. So far we’ve had 148 dead and several hundred wounded.
    Every time there is death in Afghanistan the soldier’s photo is shown on TV news. So what do we see? Canada is about 20% non white. But the dead, with a few exceptions, are white men.
    So it seems that though it is hip and fashionable to crap on white men and while everyone is positively bristling with rights and entitlements, the ones dying in service of this country are almost all white men.
    So if we are going to have job quotas, formal or informal, let’s have job quotas. Let’s have equality of sacrifice and obligation, not just equality of “rights”.
    Is it fair to have just white men dying in Afghanistan? What would we say if it was almost all non whites getting killed?

  124. Cash June 22, 2010 at 2:23 pm #

    Grouchy, the cockroaches in the corner offices are focused on one thing and that’s their bonus. They do not give a damn about consistency, ethics or anything other than becoming as rich as Croesus as fast as possible.
    I don’t know this but I’ll bet that at BP and at all the others drilling in the Gulf there was at least one engineer that asked the question what happens if we have a blow out. What is our plan, how do we contain the damage. And I will bet that these guys were told that if they valued their lives and their livelihoods they would STFU, they would never, EVER again bring this topic up. They would get with the party line which is that drilling is safe, the likelihood of a disaster is vanishingly small and they were to NOT get people riled ie environmentalists, regulators, politicians and other assorted pain in the ass do gooders with all this loose talk of underwater disasters that were never going to happen.
    So now there is no plan, no technology, no real idea what to do except hope that the relief well works and in the meantime pass out some paper towels and rags.
    And I’ll bet that those engineers and technicians that brought up the blowout issue are sitting in the deepest basement offices at BP at their most remote fly blown locations going to themselves “didn’t I tell you stupid fucking morons this would happen”.

  125. Qshtik June 22, 2010 at 2:32 pm #

    This link provides a thorough explanation of “in like Flynn/Flint.”
    http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-inl1.htm

  126. treebeardsuncle June 22, 2010 at 3:12 pm #

    \Post III
    Hi.
    Was just reading from page A11 in the Monday, June 21, 2010 issue of the San Francisco Chronicle
    Eitorial On Counting Diplomas
    A Graduating problem
    Graduating from high school is a treasured right of passage and emotional touchstone for most students. Unfortunately, fewer and fewer California students have the opportunity to experience it.
    The national high school graduation rate of 68.8 percent in 2007 was 3.1 percentage points higher than in 1997. As a country, that means far too many students are still slipping through the cracks — but at least we’re making small steps in the right direction.
    An exception is California.
    According to Education Week’s new “Diplomas Count” study, California was an exception to even this small improvement — during the years 1997 to 2007 (the soonest [most recent] year for which data are available), California’s high school graduation rate actually declined by a whopping 4.7 percentage points, the second worst in the nation.
    It’s easier to speculate about the reasons for the decline than it is to nail down one specific cause. It’s true that California’s high school student population is increasingly, Latino a group that has lower graduation rates than the overall population. It’s true that California has a high proportion of English-language learners, another group that tends to have lower graduation rates. …
    ***
    Please note that given an average iq of 100, then 50% of the population has iqs less than that including about 16% who have iqs less than 85, who are not fit for high school. In fact due to the influx of Latino’s who have iqs averaging no more than 90, the average iq in Ca is probably less than that, so that about a third of the population has iqs less than around 95 and are unlikely to be capable of completing rigorous high-school level work satisfactorialy.
    Well, yes, a lot of us really dislike those brown-skinned low-class mostly-indian Latinos. They are usually fat, physically unattractive, stupid, and prone to criminality. They can’t even manage to run effective sewer systems. They should be sent back to their barrios, and corn-fields in Mexico, Guatamala etc. The blacks should be sent back to Africa. The muslims should go too. The east Asians (and a few Asiatic indians)can stay and do useful work. Not only Scandinavians, and Germans (Welcommen, gutan tag, und wie geht’s, Herrs und frauleins!), but British, Irish, and Russians should be allowed to come over. Limited quantities of slavs and swarthy southern Europeans can be allowed as well.
    Then we can have a suitable, white European America the way it was supposed to be (with some oriental technical worker drones to make our electronics and to handle the more tedious aspects of accounting, engineering, and software development and such things).
    Here is what can be expected from those Latino indian types.
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1991/12/index.html#article3
    Noble Savagery
    James A. Clifton, The Invented Indian, Transaction Publishers, 1990, 388 pp., $29.95
    Reviewed by Samuel Taylor
    In America virtually all non-whites can trade on their skin color and on tales of past victimization in order to extract benefits from guilt-ridden whites. Blacks are recognized experts at this game, but American Indians have been perhaps even more successful.
    At the heart of their success has been the creation of a mythical past inhabited by Indians who never were. The Invented Indian, edited by veteran anthropologist James Clifton, is a brilliant dissection of the myths that have been so widely circulated by Indians and their white apologists. Each of the collection’s 16 authors demolishes an aspect of the myth or describes the cynical purposes it has served.
    This book so brazenly flouts America’s unwritten rules on how to talk about minorities, that it is a wonder it was ever published. It would be impossible to bring out a similar book about blacks or Hispanics, and it is a joy to find serious scholars who are willing to write the truth as they see it, without regard to political consequences.
    The Myth
    The great myth is essentially borne out by whatever one is likely to hear about Indians from non-specialist sources. Professor Clifton devotes several pages to fleshing it out, but it can be quickly summarized: Indians were spiritual, egalitarian, innocent people living in perfect harmony with the earth. They welcomed the white man, taught him the secrets of the wilderness, and shared with him the wisdom of their social institutions. In return, the white man enslaved and slaughtered the Indian, afflicted him with hideous diseases, and tried to destroy his culture.
    Nevertheless, runs the myth, the Native American has survived. Though he has been dispossessed and politically emasculated, his spirit remains pure. As the white man begins to acknowledge the horrors he has wrought upon the Indian, so has he begun to study and appreciate the age-old wisdom and natural virtue to which all Indians, everywhere, are heir.
    Like all myths, this one leaves certain things out: in this case, cannibalism, infanticide, ritual torture, geronticide, slaughter of prisoners, slavery, and the like. Such practices, though well substantiated, are seldom written about by historians and ethnographers for fear of violating what Prof. Clifton calls the Eleventh Commandment of the Indian business: Never Say No To An Indian. One of the Commandment’s corollaries prohibits writing or saying anything that Indians might not wish to hear. Most Indians know very little about their ancestors of centuries ago, and would vigorously deny accusations of slavery or cannibalism.
    In Canada, certain agreeable fictions have semi-legal status. Whenever work crews find human bones at ancient camp sites, for example, they must take special measures not to violate the sacred dead. Broken or burnt human bones — evidence of certain now-embarrassing practices — can be treated like animal bones.
    Stressing the Positive
    On the stress-the-positive side of the myth we find the wisdom that the white man is supposed to have learned from the Indian. Every school child has heard of Squanto, the Algonquin who taught the Pilgrims to fertilize their corn with fish. As Lynn Ceci points out in a fascinating essay, there is no evidence that any North American tribes used fertilizer of any kind. Squanto, who had a very interesting and well-documented career, probably learned about it in Newfoundland, where he lived for some time among English settlers who routinely fertilized with fish.
    School children do not learn that Squanto had lived in both England and Spain, spoke fluent English, and was hardly the noble, simple savage the history books make him out to be. As Dr.Ceci points out, the image of generous Squanto tends to obscure the more accurate picture of Indians who often attacked and killed settlers.
    Another part of the great Indian myth that has recently been picking up steam, is that early Americans learned about democracy and the advantages of unity by studying the Iroquois Confederation. One of the authors traces the origins of this myth, and explodes the idea that the Constitution could have been influenced, in any way, by the matrilineal and hereditary form of representation practiced by the Iroquois.
    One reason such preposterous notions make any headway at all is that it has become nearly obligatory to describe Indian societies as idyllically egalitarian, even “non-sexist.” Of course, there were hundreds of different tribal societies with different customs, but all of them had well defined sex roles that would horrify Gloria Steinem. Often, women were treated scarcely better than beasts of burden.
    As for egalitarianism, it is difficult for bare subsistence-level hunters and gatherers to practice anything else, but as soon as material surplus appeared, some people got more of it than others. Leland Donald writes about the Tutchone of the southern Yukon, who lived on land so harsh as to be nearly uninhabitable. Nevertheless, their society was divided into hereditary classes of rich, poor, and slaves. As Dr. Donald puts it, “even in conditions that seem ideal for the presence of the classic egalitarian Indian society, it is possible for marked inequalities to emerge.”
    The potlatches and ruinous gift-giving that were required for status among the more prosperous Northwest Indians are well known, but somehow coexist with the myth that Indians all lived in innocent classlessness. Even well known expressions like “low man on the totem pole” fail to puncture the myth.
    Another important part of the image is the perfect harmony with nature in which Indians are said to have lived. Once again, sparsely scattered, stone-age people have very little choice about the matter, but “Mother Earth” is central to the myth. All Indians, it is said, saw the earth as their beloved mother. Hills were her breasts, streams were mother’s milk, and vegetation was her lovely hair.
    Astounding as it may seem, one of the authors explains that the entire Mother Earth story can be traced to a single statement made by a single Indian in 1885. There is virtually no other evidence that Indians thought of the earth as mother. Nevertheless, the Mother Earth belief is now so widely attributed not only to American Indians but to all primitive peoples that it is frightful heresy to point out how unsubstantiated it is.
    Not surprisingly, there are plenty of entrepreneurs — Indian and non-Indian — who have parlayed the notion of the noble, nature-wise Indian into a means of parting gullible whites from their money. People with names like Rolling Thunder and Spotted Fawn do a brisk business promoting sweat lodges, sun dances, purification ceremonies, or whatever else aging hippies can be made to pay for. These ceremonies bear only a vague resemblance to anything the Indians of the past ever did, but there is a steady market for them.
    According to another author, the same can be said for the pottery sold on the Pamunkey Indian reservation in Virginia. The Pamunkey stopped making pottery in the 1890s and started up again in the 1930s only because the state of Virginia paid to establish a pottery school on the reservation. Now tourists happily buy “Indian” pots, decorated with stick figure “writing” that is likewise a 20th century invention.
    The High Counters
    Minor frauds like these are relatively harmless. Deliberate attempts to manipulate thinking about Indians are more serious. David Henige of the University of Wisconsin reports that there is a small academic industry devoted to inflating the population estimates of Pre-Columbian America. If evidence can be found that tens of millions of healthy, happy Indians were living on the continent before the white man arrived, then the reduction of their numbers through warfare and disease can be made to seem all the more heinous.
    The High Counters, as Mr. Henige calls them, pore over ancient accounts, pick the most exaggerated population estimates they can find, and solemnly pass them along as wholly credible. One scholar, for example, believes that a single energetic priest actually baptized, and counted, 14,000 Indians in a single day — one every six seconds, ‘round the clock. Others think that when Cortes said he faced an army of “more than 149,000” men, he can be relied on to have counted them accurately.
    As Mr. Henige points out, numbers like these are just another way of saying “a lot,” but it is the scholars who are prepared to believe the worst of the colonizing white man who have the deepest faith in his ability to count people in crowds. Other High Counters would have it that European diseases swept through native tribes before the white man found them, killing up to half the population before Europeans could even start counting them.
    If, by whatever means, the High Counters can gin up enough pre-Columbian Indians, they can then trot out the great, anti-white totem word, “genocide,” when they talk about the legacy of Columbus. The University of Oklahoma has even published a book called American Indian Holocaust and Survival.
    Indian Givers
    Present descendants of invented Indians have woven the strands of myth into a mighty whip with which to beat the white man. They have, for example, mobilized reservoirs of public sympathy for huge land claims. Allan van Gestel, who has defended current owners against such claims, estimates that since 1970, Indian law suits have clouded the title to 35 million acres in the Eastern United States alone. This is an area the size of Austria or Ireland.
    Indians can always call on teams of eager whites who will work for them pro bono. Clever lawyers have based most land cases on an obscure Congressional proclamation of 1783 that forbade the states to buy land from Indian tribes without federal permission. This was six years before the Constitution even went into effect, and several state governments had bought land from Indians even before the proclamation. This has not stopped tribes from trying to get back land that was duly purchased — and that has been enormously improved in the last two hundred years.
    Public sentiment, stoked by tales about the invented Indian, is such that Indians can virtually monopolize the services of scholars and historians; to testify “against” Indians can ruin a career. Some Indian claims have cost current land-owners hundreds of millions of dollars.
    Today, the federal government has primary responsibility for dealing with Indians, but states and Canadian provinces also manage publicly funded Indian programs. According to Steven Feraca, a long-time worker at the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA), all of these bureaucracies have long been given over to race-based hiring and promotion. Preferences at the Bureau are so blatant, and career prospects for non-Indians so bleak, that although Indians are only 1/2 percent of the US population, they hold 75 percent of the jobs at BIA.
    In the last few decades, the “Indian desks” of virtually all branches of government have been turned over to Indians, so that decisions that are supposed to be made in the names of larger jurisdictions are in the hands of unabashed partisans. Tribal “leaders” are now often indistinguishable from Indian-affairs bureaucrats, with no way to sort out the resulting conflicts of interest. What is more, as another author points out, chronic lateness and absenteeism in these offices are routinely excused by the notion that Indians work according to mysterious earth rhythms rather than by the white man’s clock.
    In sum, both in Canada and in the United States, Indians have succeeded in becoming a kind of Uber-citizen. Off the reservation, they have all the usual legal rights, in addition to the strenuous affirmative-action preferences that are now obligatory. On the reservation, they enjoy a kind of extraterritoriality, which exempts them from many taxes and laws, and entitles them to a complete array of Indians-only health and welfare benefits. They have suckled at the public teat for longer than any other group in North America, and bear the stigmata of listlessness and squalor to prove it.
    Next year will mark the 500th anniversary of Columbus’ discovery of America. What, by all rights, should be a proud celebration of the spread of civilization to the New World, has already been hijacked by cultural relativists who see in the white man nothing but wickedness. The October issue of National Geographic begins a series of “quincentenary” articles, in which the editors flatter themselves on letting Indians write from “the most intimate — and perhaps truest — perspective of all.”
    Such a series is likely to be filled with the exploits of invented Indians — more of what Prof. Clifton calls “perfectly enchanting fiction … that is both believed by its impresarios and presented as believable to others.” His book, impressively researched and stuffed with fascinating details, is the perfect antidote. AR
    • • • BACK TO TOP • • •

  127. freeway_4_eva June 22, 2010 at 3:29 pm #

    Been reading but not commenting for a year now, but this reversion to classic JHK rails versus cars ranting, in light of my current jobs and yesterday’s experience, makes me want to rant off here once again.
    Great comparison to slavery, because we are all slaves – slaves to our cars and to oil! At least that’s how I felt yesterday when I was driving around this suburban slum outside of Baltimore with the ironic name of “Parkville” – it wasn’t parklike but rather seemed to be designed to maximize oil consumption. The plaza anchored by a supermarket, with a gas station hidden at the far side, was built to keep you driving around looking for exits, and once you found one you couldn’t make a left turn. I spend over five minutes just driving and poking through there over 200 or so feet, the same distance that I can walk in two minutes in the city to buy a drink!
    Oh, and don’t get me started about American’s attitudes towards trains. To get to Parkville, first of all, I drove along the route of what will someday, in an ideal world, be the “Green Line.” That is, the extension of our sadly incomplete Metro System. It would only have to be a subway for two more miles, then it could come above ground and cheaply be build on the wide median of the road I drove on but, noooo, we don’t have the fucking money! Same with the new light rail, the east-west “Red Line,” that I’ve been working to promote in this city! People come up to me and complain that we cant afford the 2 billion dollars. Oh my god, just like we can afford the 4 billion dollar I-95 widening and the 4 billion dollar new expressway in the DC area! But no, we can’t afford trains! Plus, as I was listening to a radio show on the Red Line that my boss recommended, a guy from the historic Baltimore neighborhood my Dad lives in (and hence my family is invested in) called to complain the usual – the train would make the neighborhood unsafe and therefore no one wanted it around here. Not only is he wrong, but he was a fucking asshole. What the fuck else you want, a fucking traffic jam and car exhaust on your fucking street? How will that affect your property value, turning one of the few American neighborhoods that has potential to sustainable into a auto-centric slavery shithole plantation like Parkville?
    Seriously, I’m surprised all of us Americans stuck in traffic are not getting out of our cars and starting some shit. But I’m not surprised in a weird way. For when I got back to the city and stopped by a discount grocer to buy four dollars worth of dinner food, I had to wait fifteen minutes in line. All because of our fucked up economic system where shareholder are served over people so they cut jobs and run bare bones (the ladies behind me said they’ve asked for cashier jobs and they weren’t hiring). I rose my voice and asked if I could just leave five (one dollar being a bribe) on the counter and leave, but they ignored me. A lady in front of me got all rightous sounding and preached “no, you wait! Wait like all the rest of us!” Fuckin’ sheep.
    Only thing that gives me hope is how the working class girl working cashier, after apologizing for making a scene, laughed and seemed to understand when I said “I’m not pissed at you I’m pissed at the economic system that breeds this mess. The shareholders can go fuck themselves for all I care!”

  128. treebeardsuncle June 22, 2010 at 3:51 pm #

    Remember, the American way of life is non-negotiable. Now keep moving. Get back in your car and drive around in circles some more.
    g

  129. ghostlimb June 22, 2010 at 4:08 pm #

    The “first steps away” from happy motoring may not be at first obvious, and in fact, the focus on cars in general masks a number of equally insidious problems.
    Check the carbon footprint on cheeseburgers in the U.S… the entire food chain stream from the corn grown to feed the cattle on a Cow-schwitz feed-lot to transit to freezing the meat, to a media purchase for juicy, glistening ads for fast food purveyors. It makes SUVs and trucks pale by comparison in carbon footprint terms, not to mention that people are driving to buy most cheeseburgers sold in America… so why not the demonizing of cheeseburgers?
    How about power-mowers, boats, jet-skis, motorcycles+scooters, none of which have emissions controls and collectively constitute staggering carbon footprints.
    While I’d like to see the natural order of things triumph into radically reduced SUVs, trucks and combustion cars, and their parking lots, perhaps focusing disproportionally on car culture & road-building-maintaining is a convenient focal-point to the detriment of other far more villainous everyday activities.
    Ban cheeseburgers? – stop mowing lawns? The Long Emergency collective conscience needs to focus on something and build consensus, picking too many or the wrong enemies can be very costly.

  130. Al Klein June 22, 2010 at 4:19 pm #

    Belisarius, I’m not referring to people who have a genuine use for 4x4s or SUVs. I’m talking about the guys (and women) who drive to their desk jobs in temperate climates in huge road machines. I see them every day. I am especially bewildered at the halfwits who drive around in huge pickups that have never seen a load of anything in the truck bed. My comment when I see such mindless cretins is “Big truck, Little dick”. If the opportunity presents itself – say at a traffic light – I will inform them of this assessment, if it pleases me at the moment.
    This is a democracy so each of us gets to make his own decisions to some extent. This does not absolve us from making those decisions in a manner which concedes the existence of others and their right to enjoy the fruits of the planet. Accordingly, it our duty to not be gluttonous and leave resources for others to use. So if you in your own mind can justify the ownership and use of an SUV and 4×4, I’m willing to accept that. But beware of too much explanation of your purpose, lest you be accused of protesting too much.

  131. budizwiser June 22, 2010 at 4:37 pm #

    “Belisarius, I’m not referring to people who have a genuine use for 4x4s or SUVs.”
    Hey – it what’s wrong- finding – err defining “genuine use.” Off -hand, drive-through windows, Nascar and NFL, and major league baseball come to mind.
    Once upon a time – there was a President that told his people to put on a sweater and turn of the Christmas lights – what a “peaNUT” job…..
    Yes, it is our own values that create our own enemy of efficiency a foster a me first and my money makes it OK for me to waste whatever I want.
    The “enemy” is everyone and anyone that uses resources counter to your social/economic standing.
    Now how does it end? Living like a 1950s farming family or like a tenant of a Mexico City slum?

  132. treebeardsuncle June 22, 2010 at 4:40 pm #

    Ok.
    Upon becoming dictator, leaf-blowers, barbeques, and hummers will be banned. One will need to have a special licence for an suv, cars and trucks will be confiscated, lawns will be discouraged, and folks can live in agglomerations with spacious parks. Bicycles will be allowed.

  133. budizwiser June 22, 2010 at 4:41 pm #

    “Belisarius, I’m not referring to people who have a genuine use for 4x4s or SUVs.”
    Hey – this IS what’s wrong- finding – err defining “genuine use.” Off-hand, drive-through windows, Nascar and NFL, and major league baseball come to mind.
    Once upon a time – there was a President that told his people to put on a sweater and turn of the Christmas lights – what a “peaNUT” job…..
    Yes, it is our own values that create our own enemy of efficiency and foster a me-first and my-money-makes-it-OK-for-me-to-waste whatever I want.
    The “enemy” is everyone and anyone that uses resources counter to your social/economic standing.
    Now how does it end? Living like a 1950s farming family or like a tenant of a Mexico City slum?
    How much of a “shakedown” do the American people deserve. Down to Mexico, India, rural China?
    Hell, lets all go to Kingston, or a slum outside of Rio……..

  134. Goat1080 June 22, 2010 at 4:48 pm #

    It’s all about exploitation – exploitation of natural resources to the extreme, exploitation of slave labor, exploitation of banana republics and “cheap” labor wherever it can be found and at whatever cost.
    The Deepwater Horizon was operating beyond the event horizon – the event horizon being that point in time where the oil economy gives way to the post-oil economy. The blowout preventer failed indeed and the result is not pretty. That is part of the high stakes in the post peak world and the risks and costs only go up from here.
    America is experiencing its own version of Chernobyl along with the accompanying “Dead Zone” that will soon encompass the whole Gulf of Mexico and much of the Atlantic. However, the blame does not ultimately fall on the blowout preventer or even the oilrig itself or its workers – it falls on the Greed Preventer.
    This country, the USA and much of the developed world – but especially the USA – is operating so far beyond its budget in every sense of the word that it is mind numbing and stir crazy beyond one’s wildest imaginings. Every budget item is deep, deep in the red – finance, trade, health care, environment, energy, air, water and sanity. Speak of living beyond your means: Bridges to nowhere, corrupt banks, seas of cars and trucks – most with only the driver present, living arrangements and road networks that assure the highest possible consumption of oil and gas and natural resources in general, genetically modified plants and trees, scant passenger rail service and public transit, industrial farming and massive corporations manipulating the government for their own greedy ends. Everything going full tilt at maximum possible cost toward the approaching cliff.
    It’s all about greed and having more stuff: and more stuff and more stuff and more stuff and more stuff and more stuff. The Greed Preventer has failed and the ship of “recovery” is loaded with too much stuff and she’s sinking fast.
    Change is possible at any time. We could substantially lower our expectations, tighten our belts and live within our means (what a concept!) and continue as a peaceful nation for the indefinite future. Or continue on the present business as usual paradigm and go crashing over the cliff in the most spectacular nation-wreck in history. Yes, the indicators on the panel of reality are flashing red but whose paying attention? The greed preventer has blown out. Speaking of recovery – isn’t that what they do after the rescue operation has failed? That’s the recovery nobody is talking about.

  135. PaulM June 22, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    Actually, it’s been every president since Nixon….
    see Jon Stewart:
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future

  136. envirofrigginmental June 22, 2010 at 5:08 pm #

    Just as little Johnny sometimes needed a whack to the side of the head by his dad exclaiming “what in the hell were you thinking?” after just having mischieveously thrown a rock thru Mrs. Kravitts’ living room window, we in the unbelievably fortunate West need an equally sprite whack to our collective sides of the head.
    Perhaps what is going on in the Gulf might suffice.
    But judging from what I see, as life goes on, BAU, 62 or so days since the blow out, it seems it’s going to have to take one of these apocalypse scenarios to make people stop in their tracks and wake them up.
    Sadly, history will prove that we truly are insane.

  137. Goldrodor June 22, 2010 at 6:14 pm #

    Genius! Kunstler continually demonstrates himself to be one of the foremost Socratic figures of our time. Rather than the repetition of themes present in his blog becoming tiresome, they are re-worded in ever more artful and poinient ways. I’m actually glad to be living amidst general collapse knowing that most of the people affected deserve to get fucked in the ear by circumstance because by definition most people are mindless, complacent pieces of shit. (Push me a little and I’ll tell you what I REALLY think.) Having people like Kunstler to light the way as things become ever more starkly clear is truly one of life’s perverse joys. Thanks JHK, for having such vision and the courage to share it! (And remember–if you’re not getting hate mail, you aren’t doing your job.)
    Thanks again,
    Goldrodor

  138. Jim from Watkins Glen June 22, 2010 at 6:22 pm #

    Insane indeed! Cripes, I find myself insanely thinking that an asteroid might save the human race from the shameful fate of drowning in our own sewage.

  139. ozone June 22, 2010 at 8:25 pm #

    Thank YOU, G.R., enjoyed your comment!
    To go even further down that outre road of “magical thinking”:
    “The tantalizing illusions offered by our consumer culture, however, are vanishing for most citizens as we head toward collapse. The ability of the corporate state to pacify the country by extending credit and providing cheap manufactured goods to the masses is gone. The jobs we are shedding are not coming back, as the White House economist Lawrence Summers tacitly acknowledges when he talks of a “jobless recovery.” The belief that democracy lies in the choice between competing brands and the accumulation of vast sums of personal wealth at the expense of others is exposed as a fraud. Freedom can no longer be conflated with the free market. The travails of the poor are rapidly becoming the travails of the middle class, especially as unemployment insurance runs out. And class warfare, once buried under the happy illusion that we were all going to enter an age of prosperity with unfettered capitalism, is returning with a vengeance.”
    The full article is well worth the read; it stings, but it damn sure needs some ponderin’.
    Here ya be:
    https://www.adbusters.org/magazine/90/hedges-american-psychosis.html

  140. ozone June 22, 2010 at 8:39 pm #

    Pssst! He also reveals who America’s greatest enemies are. Shhhh, don’t tell….

  141. lbendet June 22, 2010 at 8:45 pm #

    Indeed it is obvious that Obama is no Lincoln, but that was the narrative of Doris Kearns Goodwin and the media as we went into the 2008 election. And with the first African American president we almost believed it.
    Now we’re faced with a creeping sensation that its possible that the state is weaker than the multinational and this is specifically hurts Obama as a leader of a nation that has been tauted as the last remaining superpower.
    BP has hired Wakenhut to guard their headquarters and used our military against those who are trying to investigate this disaster. Running interference with the fourth estate and the people’s right to know what’s going on is an affront to the first amendment. The other outrage is that BP will not allow the workers on site to wear safety gear for PR reasons.
    Recently we heard of all the corners BP cut, knowing that all was not right with this well. They took so little care of their responsibilities to this country and its laws, that they listed fauna found off the California coast and applied to the Gulf coast. My personal favorite was that they listed Dr. Lutz, as the go to guy for emergencies even though he died 5 years ago.
    In the meantime, the TBTF banks will continue doing what they do best–which is to dream up new debt vehicles. The free trade with no barriers to entry will continue to bleed jobs out of this country. (just think of the non-ending oil gusher), and congress will continue to water-down every bill that crosses their path.
    With the comments in Rolling Stone by Gen. McChrystal the military command itself feels like it has lost it gravity. Of course it would be good to know if we are in Afghanistan to do anything but protect the interests of energy companies. Tomorrow we’ll find out how Obama uses his power.

  142. Jersey New June 22, 2010 at 8:48 pm #

    Uh oh.
    Another of Jim’s prognostications almost came true.
    Check out the McChrystal story. On the tv news, they said even though he’s going to get reamed by Obama tomorrow, he’s “…very popular with the Army.”

  143. wagelaborer June 22, 2010 at 9:17 pm #

    How is killing Afghan peasants “serving” Canada?

  144. gogreenordi June 22, 2010 at 9:56 pm #

    Don’t you know? it’s Canada’s admission fee to the riches of the military-industrial money machine.

  145. Eleuthero June 22, 2010 at 10:07 pm #

    Nudge,
    Stop extrapolating about people …
    whatever their words. I do not live
    in a trailer park. I’m not fat. I’m
    not even really a racist because I see
    too many young whites going ghetto to
    where a new meme has been developed
    about them … “wiggers”. Really.
    Out of 10,247 students I’ve had over
    22 years of public instructor, I’ve
    had SIX blacks graduate from my classes.
    Why don’t you stick to the facts yourself
    and stop telling people what they are
    unless you know them.
    E.

  146. Eleuthero June 22, 2010 at 10:12 pm #

    Qshtik,
    I, myself, have criticized Vlad before
    on the grounds that he’s not even noticing
    those “copycats” of whom you speak …
    white kids emulating the very WORST
    ghetto language, dress, and manners.
    I feel for your friend but please pass
    on my congrats about her retirement. I,
    myself, am taking early retirement next
    year at age 59. I’ve had enough of
    dealing with kids raised in the Self
    Esteem Movement.
    Teaching at any level now is not exactly
    a fulfilling task and it seems like the
    biggest part of the collapse in decorum
    and performance has been within the last
    five years. Yes, there are still a few
    superstars but when they are buried in a
    class of 40 illiterates with bad manners
    and a HUGE sense of entitlement, the
    psychological income of those few only
    takes you so far.
    E.

  147. Eleuthero June 22, 2010 at 10:13 pm #

    No, Snafu, it’s “In Like Flint” as in
    the movie starring James Coburn.
    E.

  148. asoka June 22, 2010 at 10:47 pm #

    “he’s “…very popular with the Army.”
    The USA grunts aren’t wild about McChrystal (he did cover up the Tillman friendly fire death) … but yeah, McChrystal is probably popular with the Taliban army being funded by the USA taxpayers … so the Taliban can buy weapons and kill USA soldiers. War is good for business.
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=131480&sectionid=351020403

  149. treebeardsuncle June 22, 2010 at 11:37 pm #

    Well, in some sense one can trace the detoriation in manners and habits back to the jazz age in the 20’s or even back to rag time. I was a college and graduate student in the 90’s, and have only taught a small amount as a lab ta and a sub teacher. How much would you say things have changed during your life time and how do you see there being a big change over the last 5 years?
    I am not a big fan of the whiggers either. Vanilla Ice spear-headed the effort as did Marky Mark. I have called Eminem the whigger Messiah.
    I think a lot of the whigger culture does not go much pass the emulating the dress, music, and talk of the ghetto rappers. One sees it more with the guys than with the girls. It is also something that generally only young people do, from around the age of 9 to about 35 or so. One hardly ever sees white folks over 40 emulating this culture.

  150. Terry David June 23, 2010 at 12:13 am #

    “The problem arises when these fairly low-level and simplistic differences are rationalized and turned into something else, and then those something-else things get turned into programs, and then those programs are put to use deciding who’s more of a person than who.”
    True. The opposite situation illustrates such rationalization of hatreds. If you have an influx of gays into your neighborhood, the crime rate goes down, the properties are upgraded (tastefully, I might add), per capita income increases and property values go up. As a bonus, they don’t reproduce!
    Using the usual criteria for belittling racial minorities, your average racist should LOVE gay people.
    But they don’t, do they.

  151. treebeardsuncle June 23, 2010 at 12:51 am #

    Ok. That is a good point and as long as the gays are discreet and don’t encroach too much, their presence can be tolerated. I would much rather be surrounded by young white gay men than young black straight men. Lesbians are even safer.

  152. jerry June 23, 2010 at 1:05 am #

    What we have now is the Obama administration screwed up their defense for a moratorium of deepwater drilling for 6 months and Judge Feldman, a beneficiary of the oil industry’s profits through his investments in them, has ruled that the moratorium is illegal as per the the BO defense team.
    What is going on? It is clear that the blowout preventers are not capable of doing the job and cutting off the pipe because the pipe being used is too thick.
    The Jindal Jangle Jinglemen are saying no to a moratorium when there could be further deterioration with Deepwater Horizon, and failures with one or more of the existing deepwater rigs.
    This eruption is not going away at all. With only two relief wells being drilled by BP, instead of 3 or 4, the chances are only 40% that their attempt to stuff the relief well pipe with heavy mud in order to stop the eruption will work, when it gets operational.
    Currently, the wellhead is unstable. The current blowout preventer is at risk of breaking. There is a chance that the wellhead could fall in on itself release a lot more oil and gas.
    Where are the indictments?
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  153. Vlad Krandz June 23, 2010 at 1:10 am #

    Wage, you are right that we have too many people. But Puzzler is right that the proportion of smart people to dumb has to become much higher. Why do you believe that your idea cancels out his? Obviously both are needed to create a correct policy. Or do you just not believe high intelligence is necessary or desirable? Or lets cut to the chase: are you afraid that affrirming intelligence means affirming that it is in fact, largely inherited (well over 50%)? Once this is realized, the whole Liberal/Socialist/Communist Agenda become patently absurd and these fanaticisms will fall into the dustbin of history along with Mithraism and the Flat Earth.
    I adore you my Queen, my Queen of Non Sequitirs.

  154. Vlad Krandz June 23, 2010 at 1:27 am #

    When I become Dictator, women will have to wear their hair long – no more of the short, butch, neuteured worker insect crap. Twice a month, at the time of the full and new moon, all women under 50 will have to wear their long hair loose and flowing. Women whose hair does not flow will be exempt of course. Our Order will know only silken bonds to the well disposed of the fairer sex.

  155. Vlad Krandz June 23, 2010 at 1:35 am #

    So what do you think of the “Fan Culture” of South Africa? These guys are worse than the Irish American drunks on St Patrick’s Day. And how bout that call against America? We’s been robbed! Pele and his Blonde wife was one thing – what does a fifty thousand years of evolution matter. But this? But this?

  156. asoka June 23, 2010 at 1:46 am #

    Benchmark crude for August delivery was down 27 cents to $77.58 a barrel at midday Singapore time in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract gained 76 cents to settle at $77.85 on Tuesday.

    We can now look forward to lower prices at the gas station this summer. Prices going down, down, down, as petroleum supplies increase. This is terrible news! More happy motoring guaranteed.
    Prices should rise to at least US$8.60 a gallon to discourage people from driving when they could walk or bike or take a BUS. BUSES are the answer. Why is nobody, except 8M, talking about BUSES?

  157. treebeardsuncle June 23, 2010 at 2:01 am #

    Vlad, I agree with you on most everything you say except for some of the anti-jewish sentiment. Also, I like short hair on a woman oftentimes — the way it brings out the subtle features of her face that define her as a woman. So, what are you going to call your aryan brotherhood? Do you feel most affiliated with the nordic/Germanic, celtic alpine, slavic or Mediterranean — Spanish, Greek, Latin elements? I am going to call my white and jewish supremacist organization Clan na Fiacul Wyth — children of the dragon’s tooth. Want to join?
    The idea that the races are equal is as wrong as communism. Blacks in this country have an average iq of about 85. It is wrong and misguided to expect them to perform intellectually as well as whites and orientals.
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1993/09/index.html
    Who Still Believes in Integration?
    The results of our 30-year experiment are clear for all to see.
    by Samuel Taylor and Marian Evans
    In 1917 the Soviet Union set out to build a nation on a complete misreading of human nature: that people could be taught to live “from each according to his ability to each according to his need.” For decades the experiment staggered on despite the accumulation of mountains of evidence that human beings cannot be made to overcome self-interest. Long before the fateful experiment ground to a halt 70 years later, almost no one in the Soviet Union any longer believed that “Communism” was possible or even desirable.
    Some time during the 1950s and ’60s, the United States embarked on an equally misguided experiment based on an equally mistaken view of human nature: that people could be made to believe that race is irrelevant. Like the Russian Revolution, this change was imposed upon the country by a small band of fanatics. Unlike the Bolsheviks, these fanatics did not advertise their entire revolutionary program — because in all likelihood they did not have one. It was only gradually, as it unfolded through school integration, “civil rights,” open housing, immigration reform, affirmative action, “diversity,” multiculturalism and “political correctness” that the scope of the revolution became clear.

  158. Vlad Krandz June 23, 2010 at 2:03 am #

    Great points – Booker T Washington said the same thing. As he put it, why do Blacks always have to force themselves on Whites. Isn’t that in itself an admission of insecurity and inferiority? Why does separate have to mean unequal if Blacks really do have equal capacity? (which I doubt). If Blacks were equal and applied themselves, they’d often be able to do better than Whites – as they already often do in sports.
    The big turning point on the Brown case was the work of Dr Kenneth Clark, a psychologist. He claimed that segregtion was bad for Black Children, made them feel inferior. He based this on Black Children who had been segregated choosing White Dolls over Black Dolls. What he “forgot” to mention was that integrated Black Children chose White Dolls even more often than the integrated children. In other words, he lied. Brown vs Board of Education was based on a lie. All dark skinned cultures that I’m familiar with find light skin more attractive than dark skin. So the children’s reaction is not unusual. Also more recently Black Children have been wired up to record their reactions to being shown pictures of faces. They react with more anxiety to Black Faces just like White Children do. Black Adults are the same. As are White Adults. The body does not lie.
    Of the Big Three: Marcus Garvey, Booker T Washington, and W.B DuBois, Asoka is 100% a DuBois/Fanon wretched of the Earth Type. Whites are evil but for some reason Blacks will follow them anywhere. The first two gentlemen had some real dignity and their plans would have had real benefits. W.B on the other hand, was a Communist Anti White hater just like Paul Robeson. His school of thought won out. How could it not have since it had the backing of those who financed communism? People never ask that all important question of who financed the Revolution. Like the Orangutan told Charlton Heston, they wouldn’t like what they found if they were to ask. But people are content to believe that peasants with pitchforks acutally overthrow States and defeat armies. In any case, like most of the strategies of communism, it has “worked” and caused unspeakable suffering. As Adams said about Thomas Paine: he knows all about how to tear a country down, but nothing about how to build one up. Asoka is that kind of guy too.

  159. Vlad Krandz June 23, 2010 at 2:36 am #

    I was Alone and beleaugured. Then somehow I sowed the Dragon’s Teeth and a fine crop of Race Realists appeared. Now grown to sudden and completle Dragonhood, you all amaze me with your glorious color, wings, and fiery breath. You are all my Beloved Sons in whom I am well pleased.
    It’s a fine name – Welsh? I must decline though. I’m already affiliated with the Northwest Movement, an attempt to create a homeland for Whites in the Pacific Northwest. I’m just a small part of something very big. The Nordic Sub Race seems to be an evolutionary failure unless we can pull something out at the 11th hour. The blonder people are, the more PC and the more subservient to Darkies of all descriptions. I went to a Mosque after 9/11 to hear the local Mullah. The Whites just fell all over themselves in adulation. They are slaves in search of masters, obviously caught in some kind of evolutionary cul de sac. The best hope of the White Race seems to lie with the Slavs now. They are late bloomers in terms of culture, but they have been coming on pretty well for the last five hundred years. And in certain places in the Slavic World, you still find Aryans – even men with Blonde Hair. That has almost vanished in America and Western Europe. Even Scandanavia is becoming all dark haired now. But more to the point, the Slavs are still normal human beings who love themselves and their countries. Such simple things, but the building blocks of everything. Hopefully with the combination of Aryan, Alpine, and even a bit of Latin Blood in Hungary and Rumania, they can preserve some of what we were as well as themselves.
    Life is strange – some of the finest red haired men I have ever seen have been Hasidic Jews. The genetic isolation of the Hasids has preseved some interesting and valuable genotypes.
    Red Hair is vanishing even from its stronghold in southern Scotland and Western Ireland.

  160. peakinterest June 23, 2010 at 2:44 am #

    My car took a crap this past weekend, and will be promptly sent off to the scrap yard. I have decided to bike commute for as long as possible, because automobiles and everything that involves them is a scam. Besides, I live 3.5 miles from work and about the same distance from the nearest grocery store.
    I stopped by the office of my insurance agent to terminate my policy today, and she asked me what vehicle I wanted to switch coverage to. I smiled sweetly and said, “none”. She looked at me like I was talking about slow roasting babies over hot coals and eating them.
    I find that energy descent is not even on most people’s radar. When I try to explain it, I am generally met with outright denial.
    I haven’t posted here since I began working again in February, as a new hire at my old workplace, in the same position with an 8% pay cut. I have been reading each week though, and I have made some observations in my downtime.
    1. Obama is an empty suit, as well as a spineless jellyfish. Voting for him was a waste of time.
    2. Stimulus money in my area seems to be mostly spent on fixing streets in affluent neighborhoods and erecting signs proclaiming it, while busy state maintained roads crumble into dust (I live in Michigan).
    3. I am debt-free and continuing to manage contraction in my own small way, but most break time conversations still seem to revolve around buying things. Ignorance is bliss, or so it seems.
    4. The oily mess in the gulf cannot be stopped by any form of human intervention. Maybe all the dead sea life will form an oil reservoir for our distant descendants to drill for, resulting in an equally spectacular disaster.
    5. Everyone is on drugs, everyone has guns, and nobody is in charge.

  161. k-dog June 23, 2010 at 6:38 am #

    Concerning # 4
    How about 200,000 lead balls dropped down the pipe. Each ball about the size of a softball.
    I’ve given up explaining, just think about it.
    Concerning # 5
    One of those drugs is actually harmless

  162. eightm June 23, 2010 at 8:09 am #

    BIKES SUCK. They are not the answer jackass. Stop talking about bikes all you nincompoops.
    Why doesn’t your new job or company offer BUS transport to all of its workers ? Why don’t they incentivate that ? Why do they all suck so much ?
    Why don’t you take the BUS ? What is wrong with asking for BUSES asshole ? Are you making between 100 and 800 dollars a month in your new “job” ?
    Did you know that the future going salary in the USA, the EU (European Union in case you don’t know) and JAPAN (along with some others like South Korea) will end up being between 100 and 800 dollars a month, therefore 400 dollars month average ? Ask your company to give you only 400 dollars a month so you can play the game ahead of time, you won’t be “costing” too much and won’t risk being outsourced, automated out of a job, downsized or having your job exported to Indonesia where they make 100 dollars a month and are probably better educated and more disciplined than you.
    And remember, attack the person, not his ideas. And the guy with the beard, the rascist, he is a cock.

  163. scarlet runner June 23, 2010 at 8:52 am #

    Bikes are a good stopgap answer. What’s better is to walk anywhere you need to go. This is probably in the cards for us anyway (if we hang around long enough). So, may as well get fit and start enjoying it. Health benefits are a bonus. Happy trails!

  164. eightm June 23, 2010 at 9:12 am #

    Scarlet girl, in case you didn’t know, in order to walk everywhere, like to the “mall” or to “work” (whatever that will mean in the future, since work is disappearing, is no longer needed since EXCESS CAPACITY is abolishing work, that excess capacity being robots, computers, optimizations, etc.) you need to live in high density environments. That means you need to live in SKYSCRAPERS, Big Buildings in huge cities, each building having from 50 to 200 floors where the only travel is through elevators, where you don’t even hardly need to “walk” anymore. Talk about “peak oil”.
    The myth of population explosion is so wrong it is not even funny: most of the countries in the world are undergoing a population decrease, just look at Russia or Ukraine (the guy with the beard thinks the “slavs” will be the future).
    We can host a few trillion people in skyscrpapers all across the USA if needed (but it won’t be needed because the worldwide population will peak at most at 15 to 20 billion).
    We also need FREE SALARIES, since all work has been automated by machines, we need advance science to march on in triumph, since now we have created artificial life that will make oil for free by engineered bacteria metabolism.
    And the TECHNOLOGICAL SINGULARITY is marching on, we are now experimenting with modified neural networks in the mind, new organizations of information, sense organs and emotions in engineered brains, with chips inside and new wild chemical changing all reality.
    Check out:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=162692
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=163667
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=166773

  165. SNAFU June 23, 2010 at 9:25 am #

    Thanks Q,
    Kinda like using “homing in” and “honing in” interchangeably
    SNAFU

  166. budizwiser June 23, 2010 at 9:32 am #

    “Check the carbon footprint on cheeseburgers in the U.S… the entire food chain stream from the corn grown to feed the cattle on a Cow-schwitz feed-lot to transit to freezing the meat, to a media purchase for juicy, glistening ads for fast food purveyors.”
    Yes, your comments demonstrates your understanding of the challenges of determining the true resource consumption generated by particular products.
    Several years ago, I posted an essay defining the conundrum of determining the difference between resource consumption as a commodity or a recreation.
    Simply put, who gets to go swimming in the desert if the pool keepers children are dying of thirst?

  167. envirofrigginmental June 23, 2010 at 10:25 am #

    Signs of the insanity are right here in these comments.
    Evidence: Why are many of you ‘commentors’ (especially on this particular site) going on ad-nauseum about race, or Indians or Jews or all kinds of other irrelavant crap that has nothing to do with the fact that we are collectively about to have a head-on collision with the planets in ability to sustain us all and, to add insult to injury, there is a gaping hole in the planet gushing out hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil into what used to be a relatively pristine ocean?
    An environmental Chernobyl is on your doorstep and all you can talk about is BLACKS? Or correct each other about the minutia of details of what some president did or said 150 years ago? Please… find somewhere else to entertain yourselves.
    Fuck. You’ve lost it!

  168. Funzel June 23, 2010 at 11:55 am #

    envirofrigginmental,I’ll second that!

  169. Workingman1 June 23, 2010 at 12:53 pm #

    American people don’t want to know, and Washington doesn’t want to tell them… True.
    George Soros stands to make billions now that his friends in Washington will ban deep water drilling. The same Obama adm.”who pretends to care” making billion dollar loans to Brazillian oil company Petrobas where they support the same kind of deep water drilling. Guess what–Petrobas’s biggest share holder is George Soros.
    So many whores in Washington DC…

  170. peakinterest June 23, 2010 at 12:56 pm #

    I don’t recall saying bikes are the answer, most certainly not for everyone. It just so happens that it works for me.
    You can ask for buses as much as you like, you are not going to get them. We don’t do common sense in this country.
    The word you are were looking for is “incentivize”, not incentivate you semi-literate baboon. Please go to the mirror in your bathroom, stare at your own reflection, and scream and throw shit at that. Good day.

  171. asoka June 23, 2010 at 1:28 pm #

    General McChrystal has committed a crime.

    Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct. 10 U.S.C. § 888 : US Code – Section 888: Art. 88. Contempt toward officials

  172. envirofrigginmental June 23, 2010 at 1:35 pm #

    Asoka. That’s nice.
    And your point is relevant here how, pray tell?
    You are the weakest link. Good bye.

  173. wagelaborer June 23, 2010 at 1:39 pm #

    You’re exactly backwards.
    I don’t think that smart people need to breed more, because I don’t believe that intelligence is mostly inherited.
    Geniuses like Edison, Einstein and Darwin don’t produce genius children.
    Smarter parents produce smarter children, but how much is genetics and how much stimulation?
    Every once in a while, an ordinary family produces an extraordinary child.
    Should every family keep breeding until they get theirs?
    That would be hard on the ecosystem.
    Did you even read my piece on survival of the smartest?
    I believe that smart people are persecuted and harassed, especially in the US, where we are told that the reason the American people elected a smirking idiot as President (which they didn’t, but that is disregarded), is that we identify with him.
    On your other point, recently management at my workplace decreed that long hair must be put up, so now I do.
    I twist it on the top of my head, and my co-workers complain that I now look Pentecostal.

  174. wagelaborer June 23, 2010 at 1:42 pm #

    I prefer trains to cars and planes.
    I prefer to ride a bike rather than walk.
    I prefer light rail to buses.
    Are you going to scream at me now?

  175. treebeardsuncle June 23, 2010 at 1:43 pm #

    Hi, 8m. There is something about you and your cornucopian phylosophy I find annoying and threatening. For one thing oil is used not so much as a material as an energy source. In a way it is distilled sunlight, that has saved up and stored the light that fell on ancient forests and swamps and was used by animals 10’s of millions ago for many millions of years. It is not something that would be created abiotically much at all and not something that can be easily replaced in the quantities in which it was made naturally.
    Also, it was my compatriot the eugenecist Vlad, who said the slavs are our future. See his lines below. He may be right about that. The slavs of eastern Europe have been least affected by the soul-weakening disease of political correctness, liberal thinking, and other western decadence. He also made good points about how [the recessive] blond-haired [gene] and hybrid [red-haired] gene are disappearing.
    “The best hope of the White Race seems to lie with the Slavs now. They are late bloomers in terms of culture, but they have been coming on pretty well for the last five hundred years. And in certain places in the Slavic World, you still find Aryans – even men with Blonde Hair. That has almost vanished in America and Western Europe. Even Scandanavia is becoming all dark haired now. But more to the point, the Slavs are still normal human beings who love themselves and their countries. Such simple things, but the building blocks of everything. Hopefully with the combination of Aryan, Alpine, and even a bit of Latin Blood in Hungary and Rumania, they can preserve some of what we were as well as themselves.”

  176. Cash June 23, 2010 at 2:45 pm #

    Canadian soldiers target combatants in Afghanistan whether they are Afghans or foreigners fighting for the Taliban or Al Qaeda.
    Afghans are grown ups just like us. They have all the intellectual and moral faculties that we have. They are individually and collectively responsible for what happens in their country. That country chose to harbour Al Qaeda. Al Quaeda is responsible for the attacks on 9/11. Canada is a member of NATO and regardless of that fact, the US (whether Americans know it or not) is Canada’s closest friend and ally. Canadians also died in the 9/11 attack. As a result, Canadian soldiers are now on the front lines in the fight against the people responsible for the 9/11 attack as well as their allies, cheerleaders and enablers.
    The people that Canadians are fighting have allies on our soil. We’ve had recent close calls with terror on our soil also.
    People like the Taliban and Al Qaeda are not your friend Wage. They are not people inclined to make time to discuss women’s issues, will outlaw abortion, will outlaw education for girls. Obama thought that talking nice helps. It won’t.
    Muslims are not helpless victims. Muslim civilizations have been militarily aggressive since day one. For 1100 of the past 1400 years of Islam’s existence they had Western civilization back on its heels. For many centuries and by many measures ie economically, scientifically Muslim civilization was superior to ours. Muslims conquered longstanding bastions of western civilization in the eastern Mediterranean, in Spain, North Africa, the Balkans, Italy, Sicily and they took a shot at conquering France. Three hundred short years ago Muslim armies were banging on the gates of Vienna (1688 I think).
    What are the causes of Islamic terror? Assumptions of Muslim religious, civilizational and cultural superiority. They use terror tactics because for the time being they are economically and technologically behind. The fight with Islam is nothing new. We’ve been at it for centuries.

  177. treebeardsuncle June 23, 2010 at 3:01 pm #

    Folks, it is time to realize that black folks are genetically different, physically, mentally, and morally. African blacks know and accept that whites are smarter and rule more fairly and treat others more courteously than they, black Africans, would. They do not often want black rule once they know what that really means. Blacks, also lack the internal moral code that many whites have, and behave appropriately only when external social organizations coerce them into doing so.
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1993/09/index.html
    Light on the Dark Continent
    Eye-opening observations of an American who has lived in Africa for nearly 20 years.
    Racism, Guilt and Self-Deceit, Gedahlia Braun, (Self-Published), 1993, 158 single-spaced manuscript pages, $20.00 post paid
    Two Theses
    Dr. Braun draws on his years of intimacy with Africans to support two main conclusions. The first is that virtually all Africans take it for granted that whites are smarter than blacks. They haven’t the slightest illusion that they could have invented computers or built airplanes, and they recognize that blacks and whites differ in moral and psychological characteristics as well.
    What is more, Africans are not the least offended by these realizations. Unlike whites, they do not see any inherent immorality in acknowledging racial differences. Some clever, westernized Africans have discovered — just as American blacks have — that whites are terrified at the thought of racial differences, and have learned to manipulate this terror to their own advantage. But they, too, Dr. Braun finds, can almost always be persuaded to acknowledge the inherent limitations of Africans.
    Dr. Braun’s second thesis follows from the first: The vast majority of South African blacks do not want black rule. They know from their own experiences with black policemen and black bureaucrats that when Africans are in positions of power they are corrupt, despotic, and oppressive. Many blacks mouth the slogans of “liberation” but have unrealistic, often ludicrous notions of what “liberation” is likely to mean. Some, when pressed, will even admit that although they know black rule would be a catastrophe for South Africa they pretend to support it because they know that is what whites expect them to do.

    Dr. Braun has concluded that blacks and whites differ as much morally as they do mentally, and that these differences made economic development impossible. He wonders whether one of the reasons large-scale cooperative enterprise is nearly impossible throughout Africa is that blacks do not trust each other and cannot be counted on to work together for the benefit of all. He advances the provocative view that Africans may not have an internalized moral sense but depend instead on tribal authority to set rules of conduct:
    “Hence, when they were detribalized (by colonialism, etc.), these external constraints disappeared; and since there never were any internal constraints, we witness rampant lack of self-control amongst detribalized blacks (crime, drugs, promiscuity, etc.). Where there has been some substitute for tribal control — as in white-dominated South Africa or the segregated American South — this behaviour was kept within tolerable limits. But when such controls vanish (as in present-day South Africa and in large U.S. cities), you get this phenomenon of widespread unrestrained violence.”

  178. Cash June 23, 2010 at 3:01 pm #

    I hate those damned trumpets. I wish they would chant and sing like everybody else. And yes you guys got robbed.
    No matter though you’ll make it through to the next round. I’ll bet that in future World Cups it will be the US and China duking it out in the final game. Soccer culture in N. America will take some time but I think it will come.
    I watch the English Premier League. I like Arsenal. They’re a north London club. The Big 4 in that league, Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, play dazzling football, especially Arsenal. They have a lot of the world’s best talent playing in that league. Landon Donovan played on loan for Everton and by all accounts put in a cracking good performance. Clint Dempsey (another Yank) has been a stalwart at Fulham for years now. You should check out a few games. Season starts mid August.

  179. envirofrigginmental June 23, 2010 at 3:39 pm #

    Gentlemen. I don’t understand why you continue to use this forum to prattle on about race, and Muslim civilizations, and the bases of intelligence, and now the FIFA world cup… as if nothing short of cataclysmic is happening in the Gulf.
    Why do you do this here? What is your purpose? Do you realize how idiotic and irrelevant you sound? Can’t you find somewhere else to impress each other with your supercilious opinions and bombastic boasting?
    I bet not one of you actually live on the Gulf of Mexico. And if you do, then my earlier comment about insanity is even more poignant.
    Please; save the rest of us from your dissertations, or if you have something to say, make it relevant.

  180. harpax June 23, 2010 at 4:12 pm #

    I liked the allusions of our present situation compared to the pre-civil war era. I just finished reading a book on James Buchanan’s presidency, and the similrity I see as fatal is the way the south dominated the U.S. government in terms of senate control, government, court and executive branch, and finally when the north simply wouldn’t take any more appeasing the south, it left. Really, Buchanan and others like him bent over backwards, to no good. The south was scared of Lincoln, but Lincoln wasn’t going to abolish slavery, only contain it. The southern leaders wrecked Stephen Douglas because he wasn’t good enough for them. John Brown’s raid caused the south to go crazy, but most of the north had no use for him. The north didn’t like blacks anymore than the south did.
    But the south seceded, throwing away all the cards they held.
    Okay, boring history stuff here, but the blacks, Mexicans, and to an extent certain Jews are like the south. They demand more and more concessions from whites, assert complete control and insist all ‘racism’ be abolished and de facto end of the white race, or at least whites, like the north in the antebellum period, keep their mouths shut and keep paying for a corrupt system that will eventually destroy them.
    Race today is the elephant in the parlor. No one will purposely discuss it, but it’s there and growing larger. The corporate and socialist interests who run the west are determined to reduce whites in this country. They see the mexicans as the new working class. Despite the love a lot of you have for Obama, he is simply the tool of a broken, corrupt system. he has no more interest in green jobs or peace than anyone else in this system. Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama-same thing.
    In the 1850’s, one northerner, finally tired with the south’s posturing, said ‘you mistake us,
    the men of the north…we will not tolerate this.’ or words to that effect.
    I think the tragedy of the oil spill covers up this tension, and remember that any concern about the environment is mostly from whites. These wonderful new minorities couldn’t care less about wildlife or lifestyles. Their leaders want more goodies, and that’s it. JHK offhandedly states that when the oil runs out, most of these ‘immigrants’ will leave, but there are still enormous racial problems that must be solved, and will only compound when things go bust. Think Affirmative Action/uncontrolled immigration= Fugitive Slave Act. The majority of Americans are being pushed. For all your hatred of the Nascar folk, they are breadwinners and
    citizens.
    And despite your hopes for Obamanation, he’s no Lincoln. We’re still waiting. maybe the solution is simply to break up the country into four or five manageble portions, again alluded to by JMK in THE LONG EMERGENCY.

  181. wagelaborer June 23, 2010 at 4:13 pm #

    I don’t think that religious fundamentalists of any type are my friend, Cash.
    That’s why I opposed Reagan funding the muhajadeen in the 80s. I mourn the loss of all the progressive Afghans murdered by the muhajadeen.
    I think it’s horrible that the US funded the Muslim Brotherhood, in order to disrupt secular progressive governments in the Middle East.
    And I think it was wrong for the US and Israel to fund Hamas against the PLO.
    Don’t pull the “think of the poor women” thing on me. The women of Afghanistan were obtaining their freedom in the 70’s, until the US-funded muhajadeen attacked them.
    http://www.kathleenfoster.com/
    (Please take the time to watch the video)
    And they aren’t any better off after 9 years of US/NATO/Canadian occupation, so don’t try to tell me that further attacks on wedding parties will benefit the women.
    And, by the way, although JHK censors all 9-11 truth from this site, (although he allows rampant racism), I don’t believe that 9-11 was pulled off by AlQueda, let alone Afghan peasants.
    So, no, I don’t think that Canada has any right to attack peasants and goatherders in “self-defense”, or for any other reason.

  182. shecky June 23, 2010 at 4:29 pm #

    I am devastated by the shit going down in the gulf. I hope the people most directly fucked over by BP get all Western on their asses. Hair on the walls, bro. Them folks are not to be taken lightly.
    If it is the end of the world, none of the rest of it matters. If it is not the end of the world, the rest of it is still of interest.
    You remind me of my bible-slapping brother who won’t talk about anything else cuz Jesus is a-comin’ and I better get right with god.
    Kee-rist.

  183. treebeardsuncle June 23, 2010 at 5:11 pm #

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! Amen and god bless! What you say is not at all boring. The only reasons why we have not had civil wars in this country again is because the GUTLESS selfish whites cave in every time the black, Mexican and other scum ask for more. So why is it that the corporate rulers of America and Europe are trying to destroy the white working class and replace it with Mexicans? Is it because the Mexicans are more cowardly, stupid, and easily controlled?
    ” Okay, boring history stuff here, but the blacks, Mexicans, and to an extent certain Jews are like the south. They demand more and more concessions from whites, assert complete control and insist all ‘racism’ be abolished and de facto end of the white race, or at least whites, like the north in the antebellum period, keep their mouths shut and keep paying for a corrupt system that will eventually destroy them.”

  184. asoka June 23, 2010 at 5:14 pm #

    “I bet not one of you actually live on the Gulf of Mexico.”
    And I bet you don’t live in Afghanistan or have your door kicked in a 2:00 in the morning or have your family’s wedding undergo aerial bombardment.
    When thousands of foreign troops have invaded your country and are terrorizing and killing members of your family, your immediate concern is not an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico.
    Get a grip Envirofrigginmental and educate yourself about how many of the earth’s resources have been wasted in training exercises for the armed forces, shipping materials and personnel, bombing and strafing civilians, and, in general, spending THREE TRILLION DOLLARS on a stupid criminal war
    The war in Afghanistan that General McChrystal was running (until today) has actually increased the likelihood of a terrorist nuclear attack on the United States that will definitely take your mind off the Gulf of Mexico.
    http://www.amazon.com/Three-Trillion-Dollar-War-Conflict/dp/0393334171/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277327312&sr=1-1
    Meanwhile, you needn’t scold the rest of us who have MISMANAGING CONTRACTION concerns that differ from yours.

  185. Cash June 23, 2010 at 5:15 pm #

    I wasn’t thinking of women there. I was thinking of women here. Too many people have this idea that the US (or the Western world) can be dented and scratched but never brought down. This is in my opinion a fatal attitude. It is a conceit you or we cannot afford. It is like the Romans in their villas laughing at the toothless, stinking Germanic barbarians. How could they possibly take down the mighty Roman Empire with its glittering cities and its multitude of armoured soldiers? But they did.
    Do you think those poor peasants and goat herders can’t bring down the US and Western civilization? You under-estimate them. They are a lot tougher and smarter than you think. They defeated the Soviet Union barefoot and armed mostly with WW2 weapons. The Soviets Army was never noted for its squeamishness or its concern for civilian casualties. But they got whipped.
    The advantage that militant Muslims and Muslims in general have over Americans is that they have self belief, faith in Allah and are willing to die for their cause. Too many Americans (maybe a majority) despise their own country, blame America for all the ills of the world, hold their own culture and heritage in contempt, have no sense of history, no sense of their place in it.
    Do you think that the US is evil? It is no worse than any other country or culture. I would argue that the US has done a lot of bone headed and evil things but on balance the world is a better place with Americans than without them. Do you think that the US is the only country to have taken slaves? How many other countries disembowelled themselves in a civil war over the issue?
    Do you think that the Muslims that hate you are “over there” somewhere? You would be wrong. They are here on your soil. Islam as a religion in the US is growing quickly. Same in Europe, same in Canada.
    Do you have this idea that if we don’t bother the Islamic world they won’t bother you? You would be wrong about that too. You are not an equal in their eyes. You are an infidel. Military aggressiveness was part and parcel of Islamic cultures from day one. Still is. The character of it has changed but it is still there.
    And I promise I will watch the video.

  186. treebeardsuncle June 23, 2010 at 5:59 pm #

    It is the Latinos who will invade and take over America the way the Germans did to Rome, not the muslims. They will do it with the support of the corporate elite who prefer them to the white working class because the Mexicans are stupider, work cheaper, and are more docile.
    *Do you think those poor peasants and goat herders can’t bring down the US and Western civilization? You under-estimate them. They are a lot tougher and smarter than you think. They defeated the Soviet Union barefoot and armed mostly with WW2 weapons. The Soviets Army was never noted for its squeamishness or its concern for civilian casualties. But they got whipped.*
    People here particularly in the US, don’t have a sense of family, history, community, or place. They know just about nothing about anything and pride themselves on it. They are fat, lazy, ignorant, stupid, and spend their time watching tv, and driving around in circles and swiping credit cards. They are also gutless and will be easily defeated.
    Cash wrote:
    “Do you think that the US is evil? It is no worse than any other country or culture. I would argue that the US has done a lot of bone headed and evil things but on balance the world is a better place with Americans than without them. Do you think that the US is the only country to have taken slaves? How many other countries disembowelled themselves in a civil war over the issue?”

  187. envirofrigginmental June 23, 2010 at 6:16 pm #

    “You remind me of my bible-slapping brother who won’t talk about anything else cuz Jesus is a-comin’ and I better get right with god.”
    I actually agree with you on that point. I am envirofrigginmental after all, and unapologetic about it. That doesn’t mean I do not see the relevance of other important issues, as I will concede that they are all interconnected/ interrelated and have their validity and importance.
    If there’s a nuclear war, then we don’t have the luxury to deal with a crumbling environment. Bombs will simply accelerate the mess.
    But if that doesn’t occur, then the environment comes next in importance. We are shitting in our own backyards and the consequences are starting to pile up.
    My problem is that the focus of many comments here are off-base and obtuse relative to this issue, i.e. the rapid annhilation of our planet’s ecosystem. These issues (of race and Jews and Afghanistan and rogue generals) are moot in the face of us choking on our own sewage (and oil in the Gulf). And much like a house of cards that is falling, essentially that is what is currently happening, environmentally… except in slow motion, so much so that we are having difficulty detecting it.
    My point is that if we do not collectively focus our attention on our environment, all those other issues don’t matter a damn! And aren’t there other forums to enable people to talk about that stuff than here? Why isn’t anyone (including world leaders) having an intelligent conversation about overpopulation and population control and/or reduction, one of the cornerstone issues of our lack of sustainablity?
    All this blacks and Jews and generals and FIFA commentaries simply reminds me of Nero playing while Rome burned. It distracts us from reality.

  188. gogreenordi June 23, 2010 at 7:25 pm #

    “All this blacks and Jews and generals and FIFA commentaries simply reminds me of Nero playing while Rome burned. It distracts us from reality.”
    Being a long-time Kunstler reader (I go waaay back to “Geography of Nowhere”) and a new commenter, here’s my take on it: it’s like a spoon of tar spoiling a barrel of honey. Vlad subverted this forum from Kunstler’s usual topics with his BIOLOGICAL HATE of people different from himself. He uses various tactics (partial truth, repeating lies until they appear true, etc) to get other folks here riled up with their own smaller hates (we all have it to some degree), and they feel compelled to voice their strong opinions, either for or against. Then you have Vlad-Lites, lately it’s the asswipe Treebeard (an intellectual Pigmy who has a delusion of grandeur, he actually fancies himself an intellectual I bet), who essentially hijack this forum with their incessant postings. I don’t understand why Kunstler doesn’t set some ground rules and then keeps imbeciles like Treebeard locked out. This is Kunstler’s forum and he can do whatever he pleases.
    But I agree with you, it’s unfortunate that this space is used for garbage so much of the time instead of adding value to the so-urgent dialog about the impending doom that awaits us (and more frighteningly, our kids).
    And TREEBEARD, have I told you lately that you’re and Asswipe and a Moron? You clearly have severe mental (and ethical) deficiency, you’ll be a miserable prick unless you get some help pronto. And remember, designating some people as “scum” solely on their ethnic/racial group is a very slippery slope, you’re legitimizing some other nut like you designating YOU as scum (which you are, of course, as an individual, not because your ethnic background). This is why you’re an imbecile, see? And now, go drown yourself or something, and make this world a little better place for all of us.

  189. scarlet runner June 23, 2010 at 7:31 pm #

    I hear you, Gogreenordi. I feel very fortunate that no one has denigrated scarlet people such as myself. We should be concerned with matters more important than the color of one’s skin.

  190. Funzel June 23, 2010 at 7:34 pm #

    Now hold on there folks,while we are looking for the cause and irresponsible culprits of the situation we are in.Maybe some of you will know,but not admit that we are being misled again,big time.Without pointing at any group or people,let me ask you a few questions.
    Who are the moneylenders?Who owns 90% of Americas wealth?Who owns wall street?Who owns the Federal reserve?Who owns the Banks?Who are the 75% of congress?Who are the people that hold all the major decision jobs(non elected) in our Government?
    Who are the people that installed Barry Soetoro as a final insult to America?Who are the people that drag us into war after war?Who are the people that have our brainwashed youth(mostly whites)to be killed in these assaults on other nations?Who was responsible for the demise of the Weimar Republic and consequently gave us the man with the funny mustache? Just think about it,denial and excuses won’t do.

  191. gogreenordi June 23, 2010 at 7:53 pm #

    Hmm, Visigoths?
    Funzel, as I said above, partial truths and lies. You’e one of the culprits who distract us from reality, and infect us with the virus of irrational and groundless hate.

  192. gogreenordi June 23, 2010 at 7:54 pm #

    Scarlet people, along with purple and orange, are some of the finest examples of humanity, let me tell ya ;D

  193. Eleuthero June 23, 2010 at 8:27 pm #

    I think you have a real point, TBU,
    about the deterioration being nearly
    a century old. I looked at Willa
    Cather’s college entrance exam for
    the year 1900. Wow!! I felt very
    humbled by this experience.
    You could see the precursors of the
    “whigger” way back with the flappers
    of the 1920s and the huge profusion
    of de facto whores in the Depression
    who “loved” any guy who looked remotely
    like a meal ticket. The musical “Chicago”
    depicted this sort of thing excellently
    in the character played by Rene Zellweger.
    However, in my “limited” time of 22 years
    in public instruction, the decay has been
    worst in the last handful of years. It’s
    as if the vast majority of parents and
    K-12 teachers have just plain given up.
    In California, the educational environment
    is so dispiriting that the career length
    of high school teachers is now under five
    years and in some really awful locales
    like Oakland it is under four.
    Yes, we’ve probably been going downhill
    for a hundred years but the drop from
    even a decade ago feels like an “endtimes”
    phenomenon. Horrible manners. Young
    students calling me by my last name
    with no Mr. or any other title before
    it. They cannot read problem specs
    that are a paragraph long written in
    simple declarative English without
    even a conjunction.
    By the way, you’d be hard-pressed to
    find teachers who disagree with the
    scenario of the present I’ve laid
    out. That’s why I’m retiring after
    two more quarters of teaching at the
    tender young age of 59. I don’t
    want to stroke out from anger or
    get so depressed I can’t get out
    of bed.
    E.

  194. treebeardsuncle June 23, 2010 at 8:35 pm #

    Good afternoon, fine sir. What did you see as being partially or completely untrue in VK’s postings?
    “He uses various tactics (partial truth, repeating lies until they appear true, etc)”
    What do you consider to be an intellectual?
    “Then you have Vlad-Lites, lately it’s the asswipe Treebeard (an intellectual Pigmy who has a delusion of grandeur, he actually fancies himself an intellectual I bet),”
    I don’t meet the definition of an imbecile or a moron as I tested well into the gifted range.
    “I don’t understand why Kunstler doesn’t set some ground rules and then keeps imbeciles like Treebeard locked out. This is Kunstler’s forum and he can do whatever he pleases.”
    And pray tell what would that mental or ethical deficiency be?
    “You clearly have severe mental (and ethical) deficiency, you’ll be a miserable prick unless you get some help pronto. ”
    Sir Green, you do have a problem with hostility.
    It is not good for your health. How is your blood pressure?
    “now, go drown yourself or something, and make this world a little better place for all of us.”

  195. gogreenordi June 23, 2010 at 8:38 pm #

    Eleuthero, these kids are the direct consequence of the decades of welfare, corporate brainwashing (aka pop culture), breakdown of black family, breakdown of general civility in our society, self-esteem movement, etc. Plenty of blame for that to go around — black leadership most of all, white liberals, misguided and corrupt politicians, etc.

  196. ozone June 23, 2010 at 8:40 pm #

    “All this blacks and Jews and generals and FIFA commentaries simply reminds me of Nero playing while Rome burned. It distracts us from reality.”
    -E.F.M.
    Hmmmm, mayhap that would be the point? Crowd out the people who want to focus on the actual problems that relate to SURVIVAL of the human race (vs. that “white” race)? I mean, Jeebus H., look what happened to the last incarnation of the exclusionary hairy-end “master” race… mass suicide; how fun was that? Maybe they would like us to join them in the next insanity (in the NW, I guess). Ha! Have fun with the Pacific/Malay pirates; they ain’t much a’skeert o’ white-folk.
    I can’t figure why they’d think this forum a prime spot to gain some converts, so I’m going with the disruption/blah-blah-I’m-longer-and-louder theory.
    Well now, my list is getting longer and longer, and it’s not even close to X-mas! (Load up the coal Mrs. Claus[owitz].)
    BTW, I gots the densies today; what’s FIFA? Future Insurgent Farmers of America?

  197. ozone June 23, 2010 at 8:59 pm #

    E.
    I had a thought (careful, synapses may fry!!) about your station as a teacher.
    Perhaps if you were to teach a course in practical garden/farm management, with an eye to food production via locally obtainable resources, you might have a thoroughly rewarding experience. You could do all your own research, design your own curriculum, and charge folks for the privilege of gaining some useful knowledge. Your students would assuredly bend their focus to the subject at hand if it were to mean a chance at living.
    I’m sorry you had such a foul experience with “free” public education. Dedicated teachers are hard to find, and I, for one, encourage you to continue on another pathway where respect is on a give-and-take basis. Best of luck.

  198. treebeardsuncle June 23, 2010 at 9:06 pm #

    That is a good point you made about the flapper, though I would also say that her appearance was a sign of liberation for women and hedonism sought by them unpon their liberation as much as it was a sign of cultural miscegenation. I had not seen a great fall-off in communication skills the last 10 years. I left UC Davis with my second masters in 2001 so have not been around young people so much since then. May I ask in what state you teach? I am in Sacramento, California. My son is in third grade and reading at the 10th grade level.

  199. Nudge June 23, 2010 at 9:15 pm #

    Eleuthero dribbled out: “Out of 10,247 students I’ve had over 22 years of public instructor, I’ve had SIX blacks graduate from my classes. Why don’t you stick to the facts yourself and stop telling people what they are unless you know them”
    Sigh. Sounds like you live in some inner-city hell spot (perhaps Baltimorgue) and, based on your limited experiences in some tiny fishbowl, are extrapolating what you see onto the whole rest of the country. You’re so ghetto-y you sound like a wigger yourself, all full of hate and nonsense in equal proportions.
    Why don’t /you/ stick to the facts? Or at least travel some more ** so that you can get a grasp on the facts in the first place?
    You’re a teacher? Wow, standards are so much worse than I had heard. What are the courses that you say so few blacks pass? “How to oppress folks with darker skin 101” .. “How to recognize welfare potential from a block away 102” and stuff like that? Sounds like you need to go back to school for some moron education yourself.
    ** Sustainably of course. Bicycle, walk, ride the bus, take the train as discussed previously. And please do try to understand that the whole rest of the world is not the same as your hellish little corner of it is, ok? Please?

  200. messianicdruid June 23, 2010 at 9:41 pm #

    “It is not something that would be created abiotically much at all and not something that can be easily replaced in the quantities in which it was made naturally” that most people are aware of. Hydrocarbon production is accomplished electricall when large comets come into the inter solar system and discharge the sun capacitor. These extreme temps cook the minerals collected by the comet, in it’s various travels, and in some cases “brimestone” and “sulphur” as well as other chemicals are actually produced. When one of these comets encounters the earth, simply by being in close proximity, and gravity doing the heavy lifting, these chemicals, gases and thick oily liquids rain upon the earth and if electrical storms are also present some times the potential tar-pits become flaming pitch falling as in battle, “hell on earth” if you will.
    Your greasy bag of bones is just added to the mix if you should become mired in a oily bog, with no one to clean you up.

  201. asoka June 23, 2010 at 9:57 pm #

    these kids are the direct consequence of the decades of welfare, corporate brainwashing (aka pop culture), breakdown of black family, breakdown of general civility in our society, self-esteem movement, etc.

    Interesting list of suspects… but one seems to be missing.
    Starting with President George H.W. Bush education has been changed to a business model, with the idea that charters and accountability would help reform schools.
    In the business world employees making widgets are judged by their performance, so the idea was to judge teachers and schools by their performance, ignoring the fact that schools are dealing with human minds, not widgets.
    So the Charter movement tried to “deregulate” public education by placing emphasis on the free-market model of competition and choice, pushing low performers back into the public school system. (Voucher proponents are some of the most rabid haters of public schooling.)
    In the marketplace model the emphasis is on measuring with an exaggerated emphasis on basic skills. Measuring gets translated into an emphasis on test scores, grades, and graduation rates, as if those were the measure of education.
    There were some small scale successes in the Charter movement, but when they tried to turn it into large-scale reform, there was little concern for what the effect would be on public education.
    What the marketplace model does not include, because it cannot be measured, is a school’s responsibility for shaping character, developing sound minds in healthy bodies (mens sana in corpore sano), and forming citizens to be participants in a democracy.
    A good education is much more than bare literacy and numeracy. By using the results of tests to fire educators, hand out bonuses, and close schools, we have distorted the purpose of schooling.
    A democratic vision of a well-funded public education system receives less and less attention. Used to be we intended to provide universal, free public education and that worked for generations, for millions of immigrants, and improved their lives.
    Now we act like the schools are part of the marketplace, where the consumer is king … the emphasis is on the individual consumer and not with the collective, not with communities.
    The market model is not the best model to supply a service which should be distributed equally to people in every neighborhood in every city and town in the nation without regard to their ability to pay or their political power. The business model is not the best to provide police protection, fire protection, or public education.
    When the most motivated students move to charter schools, that means the neediest and most difficult students are left to regular public schools. Public schools which are underfunded, and where teachers are overworked.
    The move to privatize education seems to me a better explanation for the state of “education” than scapegoats like “breakdown of black family, breakdown of general civility in our society, self-esteem movement…”
    Self-disclosure: I am a product of a public education system, both public K-12 and a public university.

  202. gogreenordi June 23, 2010 at 10:13 pm #

    Asoka, you never responded to my question about the role of the Black leadership earlier in this blog.
    Believe me I’m no fan of Boy George Bush & Co., but the demise of the Black youth started long before him.

  203. gogreenordi June 23, 2010 at 10:20 pm #

    Treebeard, it’s like this: if it’s legitimate for you to designate entire groups of humans as “scum”, then it makes it legitimate for me to designate YOU as scum, don’t you think it’s fair? And therein lies the pitfall of your worldview, you’ve sown the seeds of your own demise.
    As to your continuous flaunting of your high IQ, this is a great illustration how some folks with high IQ can be perfect failures as human beings.

  204. asoka June 23, 2010 at 10:20 pm #

    What do you say about the dismal failure of the Black leadership?

    I didn’t reply because I don’t accept the premise contained in your question.

  205. gogreenordi June 23, 2010 at 10:27 pm #

    “I didn’t reply because I don’t accept the premise contained in your question.”
    Well, you lost your usually profuse gift of speech? Go ahead and dispute my contention. If you do not, I’ll conclude that you are out of ammo.
    Come on, Asoka, rather than waste your time blowing hot air here, why don’t you start a movement? Why don’t you get Black mothers to turn off TV and read worthy books to their kids; instead of letting their kids roam the streets, why don’t you get them to take the kids to the libraries, museums, parks. What have you done to contribute to your people’s advancement, other than blame others for their plight?

  206. gogreenordi June 23, 2010 at 10:31 pm #

    And Asoka, your failure to apologize to Qshtik a few weeks ago for your shameless and willful misrepresentation of his position takes you out of running as a serious commenter (IMHO)

  207. asoka June 23, 2010 at 11:30 pm #

    “for your shameless and willful misrepresentation of his position takes you out of running as a serious commenter”
    All the more reason not to “waste my time blowing hot air here” responding to you … especially now that I know you do not consider me a “serious commenter”
    I suppose I should also not consider all these non-black commentators to be “serious” given how facilely and offensively they ignore 500+ years of brutal white oppression, daring to compare the Black experience in which families were annihilated with that of Vietnamese immigrants who arrived here not as slaves, but as refugees fearing communist persecution, former military officers and government employees, middle class professionals and blue collar workers, most of whom had skills and were highly educated.
    Vietnamese arriving in America were not tied to posts and whipped in public and sold like livestock … Vietnamese did not have to wait 450 years to have civil rights … Vietnamese refugees received more government assistance than Black Americans ever did, etc. etc, etc..
    The very comparison of the Black Experience with the Vietnamese Experience is offensive and ignorant.

  208. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 12:40 am #

    I am loving this. The PISSANT and the MISCEGANIST are having a flame war.
    The answer Green Gore to the below is that the following are not cool black things to do. I was just reading that it was not considered respectable for blacks to do a lot of things that involve acting white like educating themselves, doing right by the girls and women they impregnate, going to museums, recycling, going to museums, giving blood, etc. It is cool to sell drugs, have the pants falling off the ass, get grills, drive around in cars with shiny chrome wheels with the base thumping. You get the idea.
    Oh, and Asoka, you don’t have the guts to start a movement. You have a gift for doing online research and highly fluent and well-spoken and have strong verbal skills, all of which makes me think you are of mixed blood. I bet you are no more than 5/8 negro. You don’t have a lot of courage though which is why you will not have a large following.
    The pissant said:
    ?Come on, Asoka, rather than waste your time blowing hot air here, why don’t you start a movement? Why don’t you get Black mothers to turn off TV and read worthy books to their kids; instead of letting their kids roam the streets, why don’t you get them to take the kids to the libraries, museums, parks. What have you done to contribute to your people’s advancement, other than blame others for their plight?”

  209. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 1:18 am #

    Jessee Jackson acknowledges that blacks do each other in more each year than were done in during all the lynchings in the history of America. The jerks in school don’t think much of that. Look. These folks do it to yourselves.
    This is for you misceganist, polly-anna bs artist, ass-sucka:
    Rev. Jackson Changes Tune
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1994/01/index.html
    Recently, Jesse Jackson has started suggesting that perhaps not all the troubles of the black race can be blamed on whites: “We lose more lives annually to the crime of blacks killing blacks than the sum total of lynchings in the entire history of the country. We are far more threatened by the dope than the rope.” [Words of the week, Jet, 11/15/93.]
    Mr. Jackson recently took this message to Roosevelt High School in New York, where black students regularly murder each other, but the students were unimpressed. To Mr. Jackson’s plea that students not bring weapons to school, one senior replied, “I’m sorry, sir. This is 1993, not 1963. I don’t know where you’ve been.”
    “You need some kind of protection,” he added, “because nobody else is going to stop a bullet for you.”
    Another senior was also skeptical. “He’s a great leader so I’ll listen to him. But it’s easy for him to talk about giving up guns and drugs. He don’t have to live with the same problems we do. Some people bring guns to school because their lives are in danger. He has body guards, we don’t. He has money, we don’t.” [Don Terry, A Graver Jackson’s Cry: Overcome the violence!, NYT, 11/13/93, p. A1.]

  210. Vlad Krandz June 24, 2010 at 1:22 am #

    Smarter parents produce smarter children far more often than dumber parents do. Don’t fudge around with it – it’s the simple truth. You could benefit from meditation – learning to watch the flow of your thoughts and feelings; in your case, your feelings about your thoughts. Your commonsense hits on the truth but then you don’t like the implications of it so you start to fudge around with it. In this one short post you both affirm and deny the genetic aspect of IQ. For the record, it’s well over 50%. All researchers have found this.
    I know that geniuses don’t usually produce geniuses. I merely state that high IQ runs in families. Genius is something more – there is an X factor to be sure. In fact, there is an element of tragedy in this area: very smart parents are destined to usually be disappointed by their children. Very smart parents will usually have smart kids, but not as smart as themselves. In genetics it’s called regression to the norm. So parents with 140 IQ’s might have kids with IQ’s in the 120’s – very high but still a big drop down. It works the other way too – dumb parents will have kids who are bit more normal than themselves. The mean for Whites is 100 of course. The mean for Afro Americans is 85. So if super smart Blacks with IQ’s of 130 have kids, the drop off is right off the cliff – much more than a similar White couple becasue the Black mean is lower. That’s why exclusive, upper middle class Black Suburbs have high crime rates. The kids are destined to be downwardly mobile and begin to show it very early.

  211. ctemple June 24, 2010 at 1:26 am #

    Jim’s chronicles of the big downturn are turning him into a noir type writer, sort of like the Cornel Woolrich of the twenty first century, an excellent article this week.

  212. Vlad Krandz June 24, 2010 at 1:39 am #

    What will people do all day in these huge housing projects? Take soma and “watch” feelies? Seems pretty insipid. I’m with the guy in Dostoyevsky’s “Notes from the Undergound” – better the whole society gets blown to pieces than a heartless future that you describe. The heart has reasons that the head knows not of. Complete rationality is irrational. You should read Leonard Nimoy’s “I am not Spock”.

  213. Vlad Krandz June 24, 2010 at 1:54 am #

    I’m just trying to get Liberals to examine their premises. After all they have not been rationally attained but rather prorammed into them. Can you give any real, rational reason why Whites should be turned into minorities in their own countries? Do you think its just economics – most of these countries have had double digit unemployment for years. Yet the immirants just keep on coming. We are still, STILL, getting 150,000 a month. Does that make the slightest sense? Is it not in fact, a monstrous injustice to all of us? And that mind you, is just the legals.
    Whites are being turned into minorites in their own countries – Asians would never accept similar treatment, yet I’m the Hater? No, you are the dupe for not seeing it or the weirdo weakling for accepting it. And btw, Kunstler has lots of racism – against non Jewish rural Whites. You probably do to. How do you justify that, hater? Kunstler would never turn on his own people like that. Yet his liberal White readers are happy to hate their own. How sick is that? The worst kind of racism is racism against your own people.

  214. Vlad Krandz June 24, 2010 at 2:00 am #

    You must be a big fan of Mayor Marion Bradley. When the police came to arrest him (either for corruption or drugs) he was smoking crack in his office. His first words were, “the bitch set me up”.

  215. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 2:06 am #

    It is about time. I am wondering what is driving gogreenordi. What causes you to focus your hostility the way you do? I have also been wondering why the US governement and the liberal socialists are trying to replace the white population with Mexicans and other mostly brown-skinned morons. And Asoka, I have had it with your miscegenation promotion. My lines are free of black and American indian pollution though I do have some tartar (Mongolian) blood which is alright with me because I respect the north asians. I am going to have a little (white) girl and if a negro tried to court her in front of me, … .
    I think you got the idea. Don’t push it.
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1994/02/index.html
    “Now when the Almighty was first down with His program, He made the heavens and the earth. The earth was a fashion misfit, being so uncool and dark, but the Spirit of the Almighty came down real tough, so that He simply said, “Lighten up!’ And that light was right on time.”
    “Now the serpent was one bad dude, one of the baddest of the animals the Almighty had made. And the serpent spoke to the sister and asked “You mean the Almighty told you not to eat of all the trees in the garden?’ And the sister told him, “Yeah, snake, I can eat of these trees, just not the tree of knowledge or the Almighty said I’d be knocked off’ And the bad of serpent told the sister, “Nah, sister, he’s feeding you a line of bull.”
    Creation in the Language of Ebonics

  216. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 2:12 am #

    When I said “What causes you to focus your hostility the way you do?”, I was referring to GoGreenordi. He was the you there.
    Also, a couple more things that blacks think are acting white are listening to classical music, loving dogs, and speaking correctly.

  217. darksumomo June 24, 2010 at 2:18 am #

    “examine their premises”
    “rationally obtained”
    You read as if you’ve been studying Ayn Rand. Have you, Vlad?

  218. eightm June 24, 2010 at 2:38 am #

    This is an excellent example of EXCESS CAPACITY: you see the “money” spent or the “cost” is all imaginary, it is not based on anything, it could cost a 1,000 trillion or whatever, any amount of money can be spent on those wars and on anything else because the money is just a place holder, a symbol, an imaginary entity that is supposed to reflect some imaginary labor process. But since labor has been automated out of existence, since our technology and machines and “cheap oil – energy thanks to human ingenuity” can create any amount of automatic wealth and can manipulate reality in any possible way, no one will ever “pay” for this in terms of labor since we live in automatic economies. People pay because they get hurt, not becasue it “costs too much”.
    This money and accounting is all fake, does not exist. What exists is our capacity to wage wars half way across the globe, to pay thousands of people for doing essentially nothing but pretending to “fight” because we live in societies that are too rich to know what to do with themselves. Our technology has made it possible to wage a hundred wars with trillions of fighter planes and warships and billions of soldiers paid for playing around the war game, all for free.
    World war one and two were the beginning of the demonstration of EXCESS CAPACITY, industrial might that is discharged through war, since all that industrial might and capacity and production does not know how to discharge its huge productivity. The housing bubble is another example of how the automatic wealth tries to discharge its EXCESS CAPACITY through building too many houses, McManisons, etc.
    Two million Apple IPADS were sold in two months, a billion cell phones were sold last year, 50 million cars were sold last year, etc. etc. This means we are way too rich to know what to do with ourselves, and all of this production with only maybe 200 million factory workers worldwide. Therefore we need free salaries about 2,500 dollars a month, very cheap rents about 200 dollars a month for a three bedroom high quality house since the economy is so rich it can easily furnish it to all. And free health care, free food, and free everything, trillions of skyscrapers, trillions of cadillacs, spaceships, space exploration, etc.
    We are ENTITLED to all of this and much more because the system is too rich, it is so rich it is going crazy, it is going out of its mind.
    What creates poverty is CONFLICT, is people going against each other for futile reasons. Even two people represents a population explosion if they fight. And Tokyo has 20 million people in a very high density environment but they know how to behave themselves, they are disciplined, that is why they are so rich. You can sleep literally in the streets in Tokyo and no one will bother you (science fiction for the USA). Behavior and non conflict creates wealth because instead of discharging energy against each other, it is discharged against nature (the real enemy, nature has always been mans enemy since the beginning of time) to dominate it and create shared wealth for everyone.
    Otherwise spend all the EXCESS CAPACITY on wars. Wars are waged and invented to discharge all the EXCESS CAPACITY (and give free salaries and money to thousands of defense companies : the military – industrial complex), not for the fairy tale reasons of Allah against Jesus.

  219. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 2:49 am #

    The black-white iq deficit is almost entirely genetic not environmental and amounts to about 18 points in this study. Note that northern blacks have an average iq of about 88 and southern blacks about 83 so the average is about 85. Northern whites have an average iq of about 103. I do not know what that of southern whites is but it is obviously quite a bit lower than for northern whites. The average white american probably has an iq of about 100. Thus one generally comes up with a white-black iq deficit of about 15 points which is one standard deviation. Noting that about 66.5% of a normally distributed population lies within 1 standard deviation of the mean and equal numbers lie above and below the mean, that means that about 16.75% or so of blacks have iqs below 70 which is well into the retarded range. Also noting that 95.6% or so of a population lies within 2 standard deviations of the mean etc, only 2.2 of whites have iqs below 70. That means about 8 times as many blacks as whites have iqs this low. I have read that 4 times as many blacks as whites scores in the slow-learning/retarded range in tests in some American schools, the upper cut off for which is somewhere around an iq of 75. Combining these statistics with a much higher proportion of blacks than whites having tendencies for pyschopathic thinking and behavior, one can clearly see why they tend to go on welfare, get aids, take so many drugs, are unemployed, commit crimes, go to jail, foster children out of wedlock, trash their neighborhoods, etc everyplace in the world they live in which their population rises above the level of around 15 to 20% of the total in a given locale.
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1994/03/index.html
    The Follow-up Study
    This result gave some support to the environmentalist position, but even this consolation was to disappear when a follow-up study of the children was published in the fall of 1992. The children were given intelligence tests again in 1986, at an average age of 17 years. It was to be six years before Dr. Scarr and Dr. Weinberg published the results. Normally these data would take a month or two to analyze and write up and a year to publish, and the results would have appeared in 1988. The four-year publication delay is excessive and is probably due to the fact that Dr. Scarr and Dr. Weinberg were worried by what they found.
    The results showed that adoption had no beneficial effect whatever on the IQs of the black, inter-racial, or white children. Their average IQs at age 17 were 89 (black), 98 (inter-racial), and 106 (white). Different IQ tests were used from those in the earlier 1976 report, but they were still approximately 10 years out of date. Three points must therefore be added to the average IQ of the group to which the black children are compared — blacks in the northern states.
    The IQ of northern blacks (adjusted up by three points) was 91 in 1986, so the black adopted children actually had lower IQs (89 vs 91) than northern blacks brought up in their own communities. The same absence of any effect is found for the inter-racial and white children after adjustments are made for the fact that the children were from northern states and that the test norms were obsolete.
    Note also that the difference between the reported (unadjusted) IQs of black and white children reared in identical environments is 18 points (88 vs 106), slightly greater than the average difference between blacks and whites that has consistently been found since the First World War. Even if adjustments for obsolete test norms and northern origin of the children were not necessary or appropriate, this 18-point difference is very difficult for environmentalists to explain. If rearing environment rather than race accounts for racial differences in IQ, why do these differences remain even when the rearing environment is the same?
    There is only one conclusion to be drawn from these results: being adopted by white college graduates has no beneficial effect whatever on the intelligence of black, white or inter-racial children at the age of 17. Since the results show that the rearing environment has no effect on the IQs of adopted children, the only conclusion to be drawn is that the factors responsible for these different levels of IQ are genetic. Not only do they vindicate the conclusion put forward by Dr. Jensen in 1969. They show that Dr. Jensen underestimated the genetic contribution to the low black IQ. The study by Dr. Scarr and Dr. Weinberg indicates that genetic factors are responsible for the entire black IQ deficit, not for between two-thirds and three-quarters of it as Dr. Jensen had suggested.
    Curiously, in their paper Dr. Scarr and Dr. Weinberg state that their results “demonstrate the strong effects of the rearing environment on IQ.” Their results provide no evidence whatsoever for this statement. Apparently, the wish was father to the thought.

  220. eightm June 24, 2010 at 3:23 am #

    From myself:
    “trillions of skyscrapers, ”
    In fact I calculated that the USA can host 9 billion skyscrapers each about 1,000 square meters in area. So maybe 100 floors each that is 900 trillion square meters. So each free house is about 100 square meters, so 9 trillion free houses. That takes care of any population explosion for some time. But after we can build them across the entire planet, so you can get a 100 trillion free houses. Then within the solar system on all planets and you can get A TRILLION SKYSCRAPERS >/B>in the solar system.
    We need a trillion skyscrapers, lets build them right away instead of fighting each other, the guy with the beard can start laying the first bricks and armored cement, have fun, and you can really work for once in your life. But robots will build them all automatically, so just watch them build themselves and enjoy.
    So you see, there is no resource scarcity, there is no population explosion, only some people, like the guy with the beard that doesn’t want other people around. But there is room for everyone and all for free.
    Now put that in your pipe and smoke it…

  221. Eleuthero June 24, 2010 at 3:36 am #

    You’re obviously a very ignorant and
    ill-mannered person because you make
    extrapolations about who I am, where
    I live, what my skills are or aren’t.
    Haven’t you noticed that I haven’t
    made one unjustified extrapolation
    about where you live, what you do
    for a living (or how competent you
    are).
    Therefore, you get the same treatment
    I gave Tituspullos (who appears to
    have disappeared) a couple of months
    ago. You do not DESERVE civilized
    conversation. Therefore, you will
    have to name-call and belittle others.
    I’ll have nothing more to do with you
    and I would suggest that people like
    you always have a limited lifespan
    on any civilized blog.
    Finally, I have received teacher of
    the year TWICE at my college, I’ve
    published two books (both of which
    got five stars on Amazon and Slashdot),
    and prior to teaching I was a
    mathematician at SRI (the former
    Stanford Research Institute).
    Thus, you look pretty silly going
    on as you do. Good luck with that.
    E.

  222. Eleuthero June 24, 2010 at 3:44 am #

    Careful, TBU. Confusing people with
    the facts has a way of inflaming the
    knee-jerk egalitarians like NUDGE on
    this board.
    Liberalism has been taken over by the
    Orwellians so facts can only be cited
    if they support utopian fantasies or
    other feel-good suppositions about how
    life SHOULD be instead of how it IS.
    It’s a shame. The Democratic Party
    used to have a far greater percentage
    of sound thinkers. Now, it seems like
    they’re all lickspittles of people like
    Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.
    Remember the Duke Lacrosse scandal.
    Jackson and Sharpton convicted those
    kids in the court of public opinion
    less than a day after they allegedly
    raped those two black girls.
    Reality is that the prosecutor was
    FIRED FOR PROSECUTORIAL ABUSE. His
    case was non-existent … and so
    were his ethics.
    E.

  223. peakinterest June 24, 2010 at 4:05 am #

    Now I remember why I stopped posting here. It’s because this forum is constantly guided toward the discussion of matters of race. I have at times thought about weighing in with my own opinions on the matter, but have chosen to abstain, primarily because I prefer to be civil.
    Race is an issue that provokes strong feelings, and civility is quickly dismissed in such exhanges. After further thought, I have decided that since the topic continues to surface in this forum, it would be dishonest for me to lurk and abstain from commentary.
    I am a 37 year old white male, I have served in the military, I have an associate degree in electronics, and I have spent most of my adult life employed in automotive factory work.
    The following statements are my opinions, based on personal experience, and are not to be taken as statements of fact.
    1. Popular black culture is destructive. Everything about it glorifies the trappings of material success and denigrates the education, work, consistency, and humility required to earn it and maintain it on a broad and sustainable basis.
    2. You are what your record says you are. This applies to individuals as well as races, nations, and nation-states. If you are displeased with reputation the group that you belong to has earned, stop trying to change perceptions and change your behavior. Pass it along. Irish immigrants learned this and implemented it long ago. Now they are just plain old white guys, except on St. Patrick’s day.
    3. Individuals should be judged according to their own merit. When an individual’s behavior reinforces applicable racial stereotypes, it is their own fault, not that of the observer. Stereotypes exist because they are generally true.
    4. In mixed company, the race in the minority will experience some degree of racism. The greater the extent of minority, the greater the level of racism. If you are a white male in an 80% black work enviornment, expect to be called “white boy”. Playfully demand to be called “white devil” instead. It lets the offender know they are offending you while displaying a sense of humor. Minorities would do well to employ this tactic instead of overreacting to borderline behavior.
    5. Demonizing white males has become fashionable to the extent that it has become part of pop culture. Pay attention to how white males are portrayed the next time you watch TV and you’ll see what I mean. We are infantile retards with the intelligence of fourth graders, yet we have managed to opress everyone under the sun.
    6. Everyone is a little bit racist, it’s psychological, and it’s part of human nature. Some of us just behave ourselves better than others.
    That’s about all I have for the moment. It’s getting late, and even white devils need their rest.

  224. Nudge June 24, 2010 at 5:39 am #

    Peakinterest wrote: “Now I remember why I stopped posting here. It’s because this forum is constantly guided toward the discussion of matters of race.”
    No. It is /not/ “constantly guided”. JHK does not write about this stuff.
    JHK’s only doing in this has been to fail to keep up good housekeeping practices when it comes to periodically getting rid of unwanted pests/content. He seems to come down hard enough of reappearances of R. Jico and mentionings of 9/11 being anything other than what the government said it was, but his housecleaning efforts seem to end there. Too bad :(
    There are only a handful of posters here who leave their openly racist spew .. however, their trite garbage spams up much of the space here. They and their comments are here only because the forum owner hasn’t bothered to kick them out. At the very least, garbage like theirs is not welcome on the vast majority of public forums on the internet (the users get banned and their grossly-off-topic remarks deleted) .. and at the most, it’s worth reporting these abjectly knee-jerk racists to the JDL or the SPLC. Unfortunately, JHK has done neither. Think of the Clusterfuck Nation forum as one of the few that’s failed to keep up on its vaccines & inoculations, and has therefore contracted a number of social diseases. These folks are little more than trolls.
    It’s too bad. This forum once had a lot more content that was actually relevant to the subject of peak oil, peak suburbia, energy, and more, but now it’s largely filled with the repetitious and empty-headed mutterings of them who just don’t like people with different-colored skin. Yawn. Thus far none of these racists have been able to show that their racism is anything more than simple tribalism that’s been dressed up with rationalizations to make it sound more legit. No surprise there .. stupid is as stupid does. Or, since it’s mostly whites who seem to be doing the “oh poor me, I’m so disadvantaged” thing, perhaps it’s better said as ‘white trash is as white trash does’.
    One might well ask these racists why they haven’t yet relocated to someplace in our country, or some other country, where they won’t find any of whatever sub-group it is they don’t like. Since they’d rather stay in place and endlessly whine about these things, instead of actually doing something to alleviate their perceived discomforts, perhaps they’ve just slipped into that all too common mostly older-person “misery loves company” rut. Perceiving oneself to be a situational victim (like the mostly white male racists here have done) is a dangerous step that enables a whole lot of really whacky thinking, some of which has been given vent here by Vlad, Tree, and others. The only exit from that rut seems to be the grave, sadly.

  225. Nudge June 24, 2010 at 6:03 am #

    The Tea Party has done very well for itself appropriating the mental space that would otherwise be occupied by the KKK Lite. They’ve sucked in a good many closet racists.
    Unfortunately their basic line in this regard (which could be sarcastically summarized as “Waah, things are so bad, it’s not like 1956 anymore, waaaaah”) is all too much like the positions taken by them in charge of our country, its politics, its many business interests, etc.
    Check out the continued malinvestment in freeways, highway connectors, interstates, mega sports stadiums, new parking-lot acreage, massive new exurb developments (aka housing projects for slightly-richer people), large shiny SUVs, etc, and compare it with what’s inevitably happening with peak oil (and what’s about to happen with the cost of offshore drilling) and you’ve got to ask yourself, haven’t these people managed to get the basic clue about the inevitability of the coming end of the dominance of liquid fossil fuels as used for transportation? Nah .. they too are lost in visions of how it was in 1956, and on some level they’re wondering when tailfins are going to come back. Or more bling for their largest SUVs.
    Well, it’s /not/ 1956 anymore, and it’s never going to be 1956 again. Thank god for that.
    Upthread from here, Envirofrigginmental said it beautifully: “My problem is that the focus of many comments here are off-base and obtuse relative to this issue, i.e. the rapid annhilation of our planet’s ecosystem. These issues (of race and Jews and Afghanistan and rogue generals) are moot in the face of us choking on our own sewage (and oil in the Gulf). And much like a house of cards that is falling, essentially that is what is currently happening, environmentally… except in slow motion, so much so that we are having difficulty detecting it.”
    Stuff like that is precisely what this forum is about. Not those John Birchers and closeted Klansters trying to recruit here by repeating their endless spew about racism and why whites are so perfect. (hint: we’re not .. but then, nobody is)

  226. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 8:14 am #

    Asoka said “Vietnamese arriving in America were not tied to posts and whipped in public and sold like livestock … ”
    Asoka, and neither did any of the Black Americans living today, so this is a non-argument. Prior generations of Vietnamese were equally, if not more, abused by feudal overlords of various stripes, Chinese, etc. By rejecting the responsibility of the currently living Blacks for their own plight you thereby perpetuate the status quo. As someone said above, a large part of the Black culture is destructive, self and overall, and Blacks themselves are largely responsible for creating that culture (with some help from the corporate profiteers).
    Like Obama, you don’t have it in you to imagine the real change, Asoka. Which is very sad — if educated and otherwise intelligent Blacks like you are stuck in the old blame whitey rut, it’s hopeless. This is why dreamers like Vlad want a country without Blacks — you’re doing it to yourself, Asoka.

  227. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 8:33 am #

    “Can you give any real, rational reason why Whites should be turned into minorities in their own countries?”
    We should not be turned into minorities, where did you get the notion that I advocate that? In fact, I’ve been saying for years (elsewhere) that it would be reasonable for us to have an immigration policy which fixes the racial mix of immigrants to the current racial mix within the U.S., and furthermore only admit immigrants who will not burden the taxpayer (educated, trained, skilled, having capital, etc.) I watch with horror what Europeans have done to their countries by enabling a hostile evasion of alien cultures which now threaten their long-term viability.
    Where I depart from you is that once an individual is here legally, he should not be stereotyped, pigeonholed, obstructed, discriminated (applies to whites too, obviously), and generally treated unjustly and unfairly.
    And regarding your frequent references to IQ comparisons — high IQ isn’t indicative to a person’s worth. Just look at Treebeard with his high IQ, he’s a total waste of sperm. He’s the poster child of a high IQ imbecile.
    All I’m saying individuals should be judged based on their individual merits, not on the average IQ of the race they belong to. And they should not be demonized based on their ethnic group because some individuals from that ethnic group have done objectionable things (this is true of probably single ethnic group). Nothing “liberal” about this, don’t you think?
    Anyway, I’m curious what you think about other topics discussed on this forum, how about you get off the race thing for a while and share your thoughts on the future of our non-negotiable way of life?

  228. budizwiser June 24, 2010 at 9:10 am #

    If nothing else, most of the content of this BLOG exemplifies the nature of a Clusterfuck.
    If and when there ever develops some sort of investigative social tool that can report or reflect the nation’s feelings or ideas on the subject of resource consumption or Peak Oil, I’m sure that many of the public responses will involve “it’s the poor people’s fault,” or the Jews, or the Arabs or whatever.
    As I have mentioned so many times the real issues of the day have more to do with why we can’t objectively measure our reality and apply even the slightest governance to actions that appear to benefit the greater good for the greatest group.
    For now, most of the reasoning behind the obfuscation of addressing resource consumption at a national level is explained by the power of money and immediate short term self interest to subvert any thoughtful discussion of any “shared” future. In other words, I’m OK, I’ve got money.
    At some point though, there will be resource shortages profound enough for the majority of the population to realize that simple “free market” distribution is no longer “fair” to them.
    Only after a majority of people see their well being jeopardized by the waste and consumption of the few will real change be fomented. (The population of the Gulf Coast isn’t enough.)
    And unfortunately, even the simple truth that the Earth and it’s bounty must be shared at certain basic levels may be distorted by race baiting and ideological hubris.
    In similar fashion to talk-radio hosts; the off-topic posts of this BLOG serve as a left-handed reminder that to some of us the Long Emergency is indeed a remote, less important subject than our opinions.
    Carry on, your blather is no less important than talking “Michael Jackson” or NASCAR stats.

  229. Funzel June 24, 2010 at 9:12 am #

    Well,now that we have an idea what a high IQ has left us with,regarding our present local and world problems,let’s look at the IQ of specific groups.Let’s check out the IQ of congress for example,then the IQ of the Australian aborigines.At the present time,I would put my money on the aborigines,no matter what their IQ is rather than on congress.

  230. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 9:33 am #

    “now that we have an idea what a high IQ has left us with,regarding our present local and world problems”
    Excellent point, Funzel. Reminds me of the “Smartest Guys in the Room” and the Enron demise — these were very smart cookies indeed.
    I wonder if there’s ever been a study that evaluated the quality of the judgement of high IQ people. My intuition is telling me that good judgement may actually be impaired by a high IQ (Treebeard is the textbook example ;D
    Cash once said that his parents, not very high on the IQ scale, can survive very well on the land. Living in harmony with Nature may be the ultimate intelligence (I think someone else said this a few weeks ago). Treebeard with his hi IQ wouldn’t last a day on the slopes of Everest, or in the Long Emergency, he’ll piss someone off within an hour and they’ll be glad to cut his rope or withhold co-operation so necessary for survival. Your prospects are really dim, Treebeard.

  231. envirofrigginmental June 24, 2010 at 10:40 am #

    To Nudge and Budizwizer: so eloquently put. Thank you.
    But to censor the racists simply allows them to lurk in the shadows. I’d rather have them in full view, so I know who they are. Instead of receiving scorn, they require healing. (Lots, it appears.) I dare them to expose their real names and locations, so we can send some therapists their way.
    To state my own perspective on race (which will be the last time I do this) I live in Canada where having an issue with race is highly problematic, as we have so many of them living side by each. Gee, which one shall I choose to hate? Hmmm, let’s see…
    We don’t have the luxury to focus our discomforts in any one particular direction. That said, I’m not deluded to the point that I don’t notice that it isn’t perfect either. Besides, it’s unproductive. All this effort about race, much like the wasted HTML space here, is an indication of narrow minds, no matter what the IQ.
    I think budiwizer is correct; I suspect JHK leaves the status quo as is, as it does reflect the notion of clusterfuck. But maybe he could add a little subprogram to this forum whereby you can simply ‘click’ to minimize the endless blathering and irrelevant commentaries in order to focus on intelligent conversations about the stuff that actually matters i.e. the mechanics of the Long Emergency. I’ve read TLE twice and didn’t notice anything about race. Slobs in pick-up trucks at NASCAR, yes, but not race.

  232. Cash June 24, 2010 at 10:44 am #

    My comment about IQ was that, IMO, intelligence is a many faceted phenomenon and that there are facets of intelligence that IQ tests can’t measure.
    I used my father as an example. He has 5 years of schooling, is barely literate and would have a great deal of trouble getting through a written IQ test. As such he would probably score very low.
    But my father has the ability to get through problems I would not be able to solve despite my many years of schooling and high IQ scores. If you throw him naked into a forest with no hope of rescue he would survive. He would not only survive, he would flourish. He is crafty, creative, insightful, stubborn, persistent and sees solutions to problems in the physical environment that I am blind to. He makes objects and materials do his bidding.
    In contrast, give me something simple like a hammer and nail and I would succeed in hammering my nuts to my knees. If you threw me naked into a forest I would be dinner for turkey vultures. Never mind my high IQ, I wouldn’t survive three days. I don’t think you can measure the type of intelligence exhibited by my father in an IQ test.

  233. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 10:57 am #

    I watch with horror what Europeans have done to their countries by enabling a hostile evasion of alien cultures which now threaten their long-term viability.
    ===============
    I know you’re all pretty tired of me posting corrections because, as my kids tell me, internet blogs, not to mention phone texting, are supposed to be areas where you are not held to any old fuddy-duddy standards of written communication like spelling, grammar and punctuation … where you can just pound away on the keyboard and hit SUBMIT without proofing, so instead of me just pointing out some error (like “it’s than not then you dumb fuck” or “there is no such word as irregardless Vlad”) in a post, how ’bout we make a game of it?
    The first person who replys back to this post identifying the incorrect word in the excerpt at the top gets an all expense paid trip to the Greystone Asylum to visit EightM and chat with the psychiatrists treating him. In exchange for this valuable prize we would expect the winner to report back and tell us about the institution, what 8M looks like and about the other patients there who I imagine are sitting around smeared with their own excrement, rocking back and forth and making odd noises.
    So who’s up for it?
    What is the incorrect word?

  234. Lara's Dad June 24, 2010 at 11:05 am #

    Q, I don’t think I want the prize but the “e” s/b “in” — fairly obvious, n’est pas ?

  235. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 11:06 am #

    eNvasion of course, but I give my award of a Greystone trip to Treebeard (he may actually be there as well :D
    It’s not a misspeling or the wrong word, it’s mistyping. I never had any keyboard instruction, and I type with two fingers, considering which I do extremely well ;D

  236. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 11:07 am #

    OMG, it WAS a misspelling. I’m humbled.

  237. Cash June 24, 2010 at 11:15 am #

    I agree with you, if you let racism go unchallenged you end up in places you won’t like ie holocausts, slavery, pogroms etc. Better to have it out in the open where you can respond to it regardless of forum. I think that the coming melt down is going to have a lot of different aspects to it, technological, economic, social.
    Society will reconstruct itself in some form or other, the question is on what basis. If it were up to Vlad he would do it on the basis of skin colour. Personally I rant a lot about culture. I don’t care about race in the slightest but I care about values, how we treat each other, how we interact.
    I think that human behaviour is highly elastic ie look at how US society changed between 1945 and 1970. In 1945 the Greatest Generation just finished off Naziism, Fascism and Japanese militarism. But by 1970 we had been through Haight Ashbury, the Summer of Love, the Monterey Pop Festival, the huge communal mud bath of Woodstock, huge race riots, the anti war movement. And Jimmy and Janis were dead, may they rest in peace. Who in 1945 could have guessed all this? Was this even the same country?

  238. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 11:26 am #

    Well put, Cash. In the Long Emergency, we may be threatened by our own race, I just read this post in one of the forums:
    “Back in 2003 when hurricane Isabel tore up central Virginia, we were without power (other than our small generator) for almost two weeks, and had to run off people, many times at gunpoint, who were attempting to steal our food and our generator. One fellow killed one of our goats inside our barn. I held a handgun on him until the police arrived, one and a half hours later. Funny thing is, if he would’ve asked we would’ve gladly shared with him.
    Sure, we all like to think the best of our fellow man, but the truth is that there are folks who are not our race’s best representatives, and we need to protect ourselves from them. Remember that in extreme situations the police, National Guard, etc. are very busy too, and cannot always drop what they are doing and come to our aid. In these situations, we are our own “first responders”. To think otherwise and still consider yourself to be “self reliant” is self-deluding.”
    Like Cash, I prefer to be around people who share my values and culture, irregardless of their skin color. Hey Qshtick, notice anything wrong in the last sentence? This was a small gift for you, irrespective of your mood today :D

  239. envirofrigginmental June 24, 2010 at 11:41 am #

    With all due respect Q, 100,000 barrels of oil (or some other astronomical figure) is spewing into the ocean (my and your ocean)… unabated… every day because of our complete and total dependance on the stuff.
    At 158.9 litres (13 US gallons) per barrel that would equate in volume to 318,000 tankfuls of gasoline.
    To put it into perspective, this represents about 2.5x what the average peron would put into their cars in their entire lifetme, assuming they drive every week from the age of 16 to 65 and have a 13 gallon tank.
    So 2.5x what you put in your tank in a LIFETIME is billowing into the Gulf…. every day… and has been for over 60 days. That’s 150 lifetimes of gas consumption so far and it doesn’t look likely it will let up. It takes 1 gallon of oil to contaminate 1,000,000 gallons of water.
    Take a look at this…
    http://gomex.erma.noaa.gov/erma.html#x=-90.42000&y=28.03000&z=6&layers=3796+4517+4507+4382+497
    And you want to play word games?
    If i take this forum as a microcosm of the West, and in particular the US (and I have to include Canada as we tend to ride on your coattails in many respects) we will deserve what’s coming to us. So sad.
    How do I get off this terrible ride? It’s killing me.

  240. envirofrigginmental June 24, 2010 at 12:02 pm #

    Correction: 158.9 litres = 42 US gallons (+/-3.18 tanks per barrel)

  241. shecky June 24, 2010 at 12:06 pm #

    This blog’s subject is Peak Oil, and its ramifications. Among those are the collapse of our current society (The Long Emergency, World Made by Hand, etc.)
    Given the certainty of Peak Oil, it is quite reasonable to then consider the expression of the changes therefrom in our society. The division of- or control of- assets such as fuel, food, and water must be of concern.
    Given the divided and stratified nature of our society, it is also reasonable to consider the effects of race, regionalism, religious identification, and socioeconomic status upon the structure of whatever social order prevails.
    The racial component of this may be overemphasized by some, but it is germane to the larger discussion we are having. Evidently it makes some here uncomfortable.
    Fortunately, Political Correctness does not prevail here, and any relevant topic may be debated without concern for the tender sensibilities of those who protest the inclusion of volatile subjects such as race and religion.

  242. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 12:51 pm #

    Q, I don’t think I want the prize but the “e” s/b “in” — fairly obvious, n’est pas?
    ===================
    OK .. quiet please .. we have a winner .. WE HAVE A WINNER! Lara’s Dad has correctly identified the incorrect word but, inexplicably, does not want the prize. How he could have so little curiosity about 8M is beyond my understanding. Anyway, thank you Lara’s Dad for participating.

  243. Cash June 24, 2010 at 12:52 pm #

    Asoka,you’re right, what black people endured is beyond words. Pure monstrous evil both before and after so called emancipation.
    But let’s not just crap on American whites for evils perpetrated on African blacks.
    I read in a book (I think by Jared Diamond) that between the 800s AD and the 1800s AD 18 million slaves were taken from sub saharan Africa.
    The book said that six million of those people were enslaved in north Africa and the middle east and 12 million were taken to various places in the New World including but not only the American Colonies and later the United States.
    There’s a lot of atoning to do out there by non Americans over slavery and I’m not hearing or seeing any. Neither am I seeing any blame pointed at them. Maybe it’s time to start. After all, they are in no way shape or form morally inferior to Americans and they should be held to account for what happened also.
    Maybe I wasn’t listening or maybe I missed it but I can’t remember hearing even once a north African, Middle Eastern or Latin American leader saying in public what a monstrous injustice was perpetrated by their ancestors on black people.
    African societies were wrecked by the slave trade and a lot of people had a hand in it and it wasn’t just Americans.

  244. ozone June 24, 2010 at 12:59 pm #

    Unfortunately, those with inflexible attitudes will be a horror to be around when the shit finally hits the fan. (As in: scarcity of EVERYTHING. Dmitri Orlov has seen this, and mocks it soundly.) They won’t have the ability to change their minds to save their lives. This is my warning: Inflexibility is a death sentence; adapt or perish. (May perish anyhow; but at least you gave it a shot, eh?)
    “Conservatives” (as they may call themselves; in fact, “Authoritarians”) have been found to have a different brain structure that doesn’t allow for flexible thinking. Notice anything like that being presented anywhere, hmmm?

  245. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 1:00 pm #

    eNvasion of course
    ===============
    Oh WOW! This is precious.

  246. Cash June 24, 2010 at 1:04 pm #

    Wage, I’m not getting any sound from the video. What am I doing wrong?

  247. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 1:33 pm #

    OMG, it WAS a misspelling. I’m humbled.
    =============
    No, Go, you do not get off the hook so easily. It was NOT a misspelling just as it was NOT a typo as you first said. Apparently the fact is you don’t know the difference between e-vade, in-vade en-vade or any other vade.
    But this is all neither here nor there … did you hear that there was this big accident down in the Gulf where a drilling rig blew up and now there’s all this oil spewing into the water? ;D

  248. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 1:36 pm #

    I don’t know, Cash, it just started playing for me.
    Try this one-
    http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=11841117

  249. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 1:43 pm #

    We showed this video at our Friday night film showings.
    It broke my heart to watch these beautiful hopeful people trying to make life better for their fellow Afghans, and to know that they were murdered with my tax money by vicious religious fundamentalists.
    The thing is, I am an atheist of European descent, so my forebears were burned at the stake by Christians, not beheaded by Muslims.
    Therefore, I am more inclined to hold a grudge against Christians than Muslims.
    My son and his friend were at a quasi school function on a weekend outing. They were invited to a “non-denominational” Sunday morning religious function.
    My son, an atheist, and his friend, a Muslim, somehow knew that the “non-denominational” meeting would not actually accommodate their beliefs, so they chose to skip it.
    The adults in charge moved the kids directly from church meeting to breakfast, not bothering to tell my kid and his friend, so they went hungry.
    Small, I know, compared to mass burnings and hangings, but still. I was annoyed.
    By the way, Muslims I know are no more blood thirsty than Christians. Less, actually, since so many Christians seem to think that it is OK to kill over one billion Muslims in revenge for 9-11.

  250. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 1:46 pm #

    By the way, while I was reading these hate-filled screeds from the self-styled superior class, I was watching Democracy Now, which had a soft-spoken African-American man in Detroit showing his extensive community garden.
    He talked about self-sufficiency in food, etc. Actually, just look up anything Tripp has written, and you’ll get the point.

  251. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 1:50 pm #

    The Vichy Vietnamese brought here, like the Cubans, were rewarded for their disloyalty to their people by being provided with jobs and other perks.
    African Americans, on the other hand, were moved from chattel slavery to sharecropper slavery, and kept down with death squads and discrimination.

  252. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 1:51 pm #

    Wage, I’m not getting any sound from the video. What am I doing wrong?
    =================
    Cash, I’m getting audio on that link. I’m the last person in the world who should be playing IT tech geek but how ’bout this … go to the lower right corner on your monitor. There is probably a speaker icon. Click on it and see if you somehow have your sound muted.

  253. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 1:54 pm #

    “Apparently the fact is you don’t know the difference between e-vade, in-vade en-vade or any other vade.”
    Don’t be so sure. Evade is what Asoka does when asked a question to which he has no plausible answer. Invade is what TV did to our homes and our minds (with our not-so-tacid agreement). Envade is an obscure word which means to “fixate on grammar and spelling to the point of becoming annoying and anal.” :D

  254. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 2:03 pm #

    I agree with you that genius is an occasional genetic fluke. I agree with you that smart parents usually produce smart children.
    I disagree on two key points that I have pointed out before, and you ignore.
    1) There is no reason that only high IQ people should live decent lives.
    2) High IQ is not correlated with morality. We can look at Dick Cheney, a highly intelligent psychopath, as an example of the one side.
    I know many, many low IQ people who are decent and moral. You don’t know them, so I can’t refer to them to prove my point. But I’ll bet you know many also.
    EightM is right about our productive capacity. What we have now is an incredible abundance and appalling inequality of distribution.
    But even with all that, most people are not criminals. Although, of course, “crime” is determined by the ruling class.
    Individual murder is decried, while mass murder is glorified.
    Petty thugs and pickpockets are prosecuted, while thieves in high places are richly rewarded and feted.
    In the 19th century, drugs were legal and debtors went to prison. Now, it’s the opposite.

  255. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 2:05 pm #

    Wage, this is only a part of the story. Many Vietnamese who came here were mistreated, cheated, discriminated, and hated. And yet, they chose to work hard and transcend their obstacles. Here’s one example:
    http://www.unclaw.com/chin/scholarship/fishermen.htm
    Black Americans would benefit by emulating Vietnamese and other indigent immigrants to this country who in 1-2 generations built decent lives, and they DID NOT have the advantage of speaking English. Well, come to think of it, neither do many American Blacks either, but this is by choice.

  256. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 2:08 pm #

    Nudge, I have been very easy with you, up to now, but this latest tirade calls for sterner measures and less restraint.
    Let me make the following things clear:
    I. You do not have ownership or control of this forum. Deal with it.
    II. This is not a school or work evironment.
    It is not ruled by finking.
    III. You are a rat-fink tattle-tailing stool pigeon. That is not attractive.
    IV. You have totalitarian leanings. If you find information or argumentation not to your liking, your reaction is to remove the speaker/s and the arguments. (Folks at UC Santa Cruz operated that way in the early 1990’s for example.) Perhaps your case is so weak, it cannot withstand being faced with facts and reasoned opposing argument.
    In fact what you are advocating, is to get folks in trouble who have a viewpoint opposed to your own. The Bill of Rights exists to protect others from folks like you.
    Nudge, are you a socialist or Marxist by chance?
    You look quite red in that sense.
    Peakinterest wrote: “Now I remember why I stopped posting here. It’s because this forum is constantly guided toward the discussion of matters of race.”
    No. It is /not/ “constantly guided”. JHK does not write about this stuff.
    JHK’s only doing in this has been to fail to keep up good housekeeping practices when it comes to periodically getting rid of unwanted pests/content. He seems to come down hard enough of reappearances of R. Jico and mentionings of 9/11 being anything other than what the government said it was, but his housecleaning efforts seem to end there. Too bad :(
    There are only a handful of posters here who leave their openly racist spew .. however, their trite garbage spams up much of the space here. They and their comments are here only because the forum owner hasn’t bothered to kick them out. At the very least, garbage like theirs is not welcome on the vast majority of public forums on the internet (the users get banned and their grossly-off-topic remarks deleted) .. and at the most, it’s worth reporting these abjectly knee-jerk racists to the JDL or the SPLC. Unfortunately, JHK has done neither. Think of the Clusterfuck Nation forum as one of the few that’s failed to keep up on its vaccines & inoculations, and has therefore contracted a number of social diseases. These folks are little more than trolls.

  257. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 2:13 pm #

    The Afghan muhajadeen did not fight the Russians with WWll weapons. The US and Saudi Arabia gave them billions of dollars, and modern weapons, including shoulder fired anti-aircraft weapons. The US trained them and built camps for them.
    The US even set up madrasses and provided them with jihad textbooks written by a professor in Nebraska, that pushed Muslim terrorist ideas.
    I don’t think Americans are uniquely evil. I think our ruling class is evil and is uniquely evil at this particular time in history.
    I agree that other empires in the past have been equally evil.
    I’m way more worried about fundamentalist Christians taking over America and destroying my rights that I am Muslims.
    Actually, it’s started. The Patriot Act, the FISA Act, the Homeland Security Act, the Homegrown Terrorist Act- all of them, passed into law by self-righteous Christians.
    The US Air Force has been infiltrated and taken over by crazy Christians.
    The Texas School Board has been overthrown by crazy Christians.
    Our corporate media is full of them.
    You really want me to be afraid of Muslims while my country is being overthrown by Christians?

  258. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 2:15 pm #

    Actually, I am doing just fine. Have a lot of $ saved up, am set for retirement, am living comfortably, and have a kid and another on the way. Green Gore, you have a talent for annoying people as well. You remind me of NotMommy.
    Geoff

  259. asia June 24, 2010 at 2:19 pm #

    lakes and ocenas beleagured:
    CHICAGO – An Asian carp was found for the first time beyond electric barriers meant to keep the voracious invasive species out of the Great Lakes, state and federal officials said Wednesday, prompting renewed calls for swift action to block their advance.
    Commercial fishermen landed the 3-foot-long, 20-pound bighead carp in Lake Calumet on Chicago’s South Side, about six miles from Lake Michigan, according to the Asian Carp Regional Coordinating Committee.
    Officials said they need more information to determine the significance of the find.
    “The threat to the Great Lakes depends on how many have access to the lakes, which depends on how many are in the Chicago waterway right now,” said John Rogner, assistant director of the Illinois Department of Natural Resources.
    But environmental groups said the discovery leaves no doubt that other Asian carp have breached barriers designed to prevent them from migrating from the Mississippi River system to the Great Lakes and proves the government needs to act faster.
    “If the capture of this live fish doesn’t confirm the urgency of this problem, nothing will,” said Andy Buchsbaum, director of the National Wildlife Federation’s Great Lakes office.
    Scientists and fishermen fear that if the carp become established in the lakes, they could starve out popular sport species and ruin the region’s $7 billion fishing industry. Asian Carp can grow to 4 feet and 100 pounds and eat up to 40 percent of their body weight daily.
    Rogner, from the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, estimated that the male carp was about 3 to 4 years old. It was caught live but has since been killed and will be sent to the University of Illinois to determine if it was artificially raised or naturally bred.
    The fish was sexually mature, but Lake Calumet’s conditions aren’t conducive to reproduction because the water is too still, Rogner said. Even so, the lake is the ideal living environment for the fish because it’s quiet and near a river system, he added.
    “It fits the model to a T,” he said. “They may be concentrated in that area.”

  260. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 2:19 pm #

    “Green Gore, you have a talent for annoying people as well.”
    Yeah, but I do it on purpose, you do it ’cause you’re clueless :D

  261. asia June 24, 2010 at 2:21 pm #

    ‘Demonizing white males has become fashionable to the extent that it has become part of pop culture. Pay attention to how white males are portrayed the next time you watch TV and you’ll see what I mean. We are infantile ‘
    remember archie bunker?
    what if the name had been ‘ rabbi bunker’?
    it never woulda been shown!

  262. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 2:22 pm #

    But let me tell you why I love my fellow Americans who are not in the ruling class.
    I was at work, and we had a crazy Christian spouting off about how the world was 6,000 years old and made by God, etc.
    I was across the room, so couldn’t easily interject, but my co-workers, (none of them atheists) stepped up and argued with her.
    She was nasty and hateful and insisting on her fundamentalist views.
    Finally, a sweet, low IQ, freckle-faced redhead (Vlad!), stepped in with what she clearly thought would be a calming statement to all involved.
    “I guess it just depends on what God you believe in”, she said sweetly.
    This, of course, just sent the fundamentalist over the edge! Much to the surprise of the peace-maker.
    But, I was so proud to be American at that moment. Because the idea of tolerance and open-mindedness, and willingness to live and let live – that, to me, is the best part of America.
    It’s not going to be easy for the fundamentalists to totally take over, because the only reason they’ve gotten as far as they have is because most Americans aren’t paying attention!

  263. asia June 24, 2010 at 2:23 pm #

    evasion ……………………………..
    which is what ive been doing to CFN due to asoka and tree and 8m

  264. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 2:27 pm #

    What? You mean poisoning the water and killing every fish in a 2 mile stretch didn’t work?
    http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/05/20/illinois-river-being-poisoned-today-in-search-for-asian-carp/

  265. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 2:28 pm #

    Asia, you’re in trouble with Qshtick (and possibly the IRS), ’cause what you’ve been doing was avoidance, not evasion. As tax lawyers say, the difference between avoidance and evasion is about 10 years of prison.

  266. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 2:28 pm #

    Well, the more stupid and ignorant these fundamentalist Christians are the more strongly they believe in these things and the more literal minded they are. They are full of hostility and intolerance and are very hurtful which they disguise under righteous punitiveness. They also tend to long for exclusiveness.

  267. asia June 24, 2010 at 2:29 pm #

    African societies were wrecked by the slave trade and a lot of people had a hand in it and it wasn’t just Americans.
    whats the link from Islam to slavery to islam in africa and these pathetic guys in suits selling newspapers in the mall saying:
    would you like to shake a black mans hand?
    ever ponder those connections?

  268. Puzzler June 24, 2010 at 2:31 pm #

    Nice riposte — point to you.

  269. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 2:45 pm #

    The Mexicans are the equivalent of the deltas in Brave New World.
    Note how the invasion of the US by Mexicans is contributing to the dumbing down of America:
    http://www.vdare.com/rushton/070926_indians.htm
    There are large inequalities in average IQ scores between groups. Herrnstein and Murray’s (1994) The Bell Curve reported that the average IQ for “African” Americans is lower than those for “Latino”, “White”, “East Asian”, and “Jewish” Americans (IQs = 85, 89, 103, 106, and 115, respectively, pp. 273-278).
    In the 1970s the IQ debate became worldwide when British psychologist Richard Lynn showed that compared to a White IQ average of 100, East Asians average about 105 and sub-Saharan Africans around 70.
    By 2006, Lynn had tabulated 620 IQ studies in 133 different countries. He clustered the countries into the ten genetic groupings identified by L. L. Cavalli-Sforza et al. in their mammoth 1994 History and Geography of Human Genes. The world average IQ had to be calibrated downwards to 90, as shown in the map.
    World Distribution of IQ Scores of Indigenous (pre European migration)
    Peoples (Adapted from Lynn, 2006).
    East Asians (Chinese, Japanese and Koreans) obtain the highest mean IQ at 105. Europeans follow with an IQ of 100. Some ways below these are the Inuit or Eskimos (IQ 91), South East Asians (IQ 87), Native American Indians (IQ 87), Pacific Islanders (IQ 85), and South Asians and North Africans (IQ 84). Well below these are the sub-Saharan Africans (IQ 67), the Australian Aborigines (IQ 62), the Bushmen of the Kalahari Desert, and the Pygmies of the Congo rain forests (IQ 54).
    Even a few years ago, news of drastically lower mean IQs for any population group—as low as 70 to 85 in Africa—would have been considered not only an absurdity, but also an injustice. Yet new empirical work continues to show a world IQ average of 90. It continues to show that mean IQs of 70 are found routinely in sub-Saharan Africa and that mean IQs of 70 to 90 are typical of many other regions of the world. Outside of European and East Asian populations, an average IQ as high as 100 is seldom found.

  270. envirofrigginmental June 24, 2010 at 3:08 pm #

    Qshtik, I don’t mean to pick on you in particular, but are you a faggot? You write like a faggot. You have the same quippy sarcasm as a faggot. You must be a faggot. Yes. I’ve decided that you must be faggot because only a faggot who is deeply wounded, damaged and insecure would find the need to excercise such flippancy. How do I know? Because I am a faggot… and I’ve had the misfortune to mingle with your brand of faggot. You are the worst type of faggot. You are what gives faggots a bad name.
    This is a minute sampling of what the rest of the world has to say about what’s happening in the Gulf, you smug faggot:
    y mientras tanto, millones de personas, preocupándose más por quién va a ser campeón del mundo en el fútbol; cuando el golfo de México se esta llendo a la chingada, reduzcamos la demanda de hidrocarburos, no mas perforaciones en aguas profundas, la cuenta de éste desastre va a ser espantosamente grande y los que más sufrirán son los más inocentes, los que no pueden quejarse y los que tienen que vivir el infierno, la biodiversidad del golfo!!!. El gobierno de México debe de participar, debe de saber que es lo que están vertiendo en las aguas del golfo, no se si lo que esperan es que llegue el petróleo a costas mexicanas.
    ?? ???? ???? ????…??
    : (
    Es necesario reuniunos INMEDIATAMENTE los Infenieros Quimicos para iniciar a toda velocidad, Investigaciones para contrarrestar este fenomeno con algo Quimico o Fisico,
    April 20th 2010 marks the oil rig explosion
    Deep water horizon oil rig sinking in confusion
    The Gulf of Mexico in massive calamity
    Potentially unprecedented environmental crudity
    Man! you never learn and you will never learn anything
    In your bloody greed you take short cuts in everything
    You knew it is dangerous the fuel cap may explode
    When you dive deep depth to dig oil that corrode
    You need 747 to fly and fuel to burn for your lifestyle
    Your greed has made Nature’s resources futile
    Tsunamis, erupting volcanoes, Katrina, you never learn
    All Mother Nature’s natural resources you want to burn
    Look at the catastrophe you have brought to Nature
    The thousands of species you were supposed to nurture
    You were penny wise but idiotically pound foolish
    All that mattered to you was the profit which is devilish
    My tears roll as I see serenity of nature severed
    Heart aches as thousands of living species are cleared
    God! forgive the greed and the lust and the ego of man
    Last journey, Heh! mighty man you take nothing in hand
    DR. M. RAKEN ; MALAYSIA
    Hello,
    I’m writing from Europe. Instead of waiting for the leaders, people like we can do something too… Just look for all the information you can find on the net about “transition towns”.
    It’s really another way of living again…and the decisions are more made by the people themsefls… Please have a look at it and you will find this very interesting maybe…
    It will not help with this oil spill of course, therefore it’s too late. All we can do for that is ask our leaders with as much people as possible to take some action immediately.
    Good luck to the Americans and the rest of the world. We will really need or change of view on life or otherwise we will be having a lot of hard times I think…
    If we stop this madeness of the oil-industry, than problems in the middle east will be in the past too… Because however you see these problems, the root cause of all of this madeness overthere is allways been the oil.
    Greetings,
    Patrick
    PS: Sorry if my english is not allways that good, but I try to do my best ;-)

  271. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 3:13 pm #

    I’m tellin’ you folks, Treebeard and 8M are one and the same. Depending on the variations in the magnetic field, either BUSES or IQ obsesses him.

  272. asoka June 24, 2010 at 3:26 pm #

    “Investigaciones para contrarrestar este fenomeno con algo Quimico o Fisico”
    Pues, seria fisico porque los quimicos que estan echando al mar ya son muy toxicos y no necesitamos mas cosas toxicas en el mar matando a todo ser vivo alla.
    A HazMat diver who saw for himself says the stuff BP is putting into the ocean is so strong it is eating away at the hulls of fibre glass boats.

  273. gogreenordi June 24, 2010 at 3:28 pm #

    Enviro, the sad thing about the Gulf holocaust is that talking about it pointless – there’s nothing we can do about it as individuals. My wife and I live extremely low on the energy consumption chain, but our kids and most of our friends do not. Those in the know (BP and Gov’t) won’t tell us the truth about it, the guilty won’t be prosecuted, the drilling will continue, what’s the point of talking about something you have no control over? My coworker just bought a brand-new monster pickup truck to commute to work (by himself of course). He has more reasons to worry about the impending doom (he’s about 30 and I’m over 50), but he doesn’t, and most people don’t. Millions in the 3rd world can’t wait till the day comes when they can buy that new shiny car, so as long as there’s a drop of oil no matter how deep, they’ll go for it and damn the torpedoes. I don’t know how many years we have before the day of reckoning, and nothing to do but watch it unfold.
    Our individual choices don’t matter, ’cause the majority of the people can’t see past today (why would they take subprime mortgages it it were different?) and they will not sacrifice today’s comfort for tomorrow’s security.

  274. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 3:31 pm #

    Ah, yes, those worthless Mexicans.
    The ones who took to the streets and protested by the millions when their election was stolen in 2006.
    Unlike Americans, who bitched to each other and stayed home.
    (Not all. I tip my hat to the ones in Florida and Washington, DC who protested the stolen 2000 election, and to the Greens, [including me], and the Libertarians who paid for the recount in Ohio in 2004, which was subverted).

  275. asoka June 24, 2010 at 3:42 pm #

    “Evade is what Asoka does when asked a question to which he has no plausible answer.”
    You white devils ask hard questions that a simple low-IQ mind like mine cannot answer. Then you call the result of that white devil trickery “evasion” … you white folk are mean devils.
    When I do provide an answer, like the long post I made on the privatization of American education and the deterioration of public schools thanks to George H.W. Bush, my answer is ignored, or declared “off-topic”.
    You don’t stop to think our ability to manage contraction intelligently may be related to our educational system. Or our ability to manage contraction may be related future blow back from our lawless behavior in Afghanistan.
    You want to talk about environmental destruction. There is only so much that can be said about BP and the hole that is getting bigger by the day…
    Even so many Republicans and Conservatives are defending BP and continue to praise the “free market” and continue to resist government regulation because they live with the fantasy that corporations can regulate themselves and fools like Rand Paul criticize Obama for having his “boot on BP’s neck” when, in reality, Obama has been extremely lax, preferring to negotiate a settlement with BP that provides victim compensation and does not enrich the trial lawyers or consume legal system resources for decades. In other words, a smart solution responding to victim need, given that, as JHK says this week, there are no technical solutions available today. We cannot even be sure about the technical solution will work next month.

  276. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 3:56 pm #

    My relative has been teaching for decades in Santa Clara County.
    When the evil Cisco destroyed much of San Jose’s remaining open space, he got them to donate some land in return, and he and his students planted, and are maintaining, a native California planting.
    I have never heard a racist remark from him.
    Just so you know.

  277. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 3:59 pm #

    When I was pregnant, I watched what I ate.
    I counted protein grams, ate salads and vegetables, refused coffee and alcohol, and didn’t take any drugs.
    When my babies were babies, I breastfed them.
    So they got superior nutrition as well as brain stimulation after they were born.
    When you adopt, does any of that happen?

  278. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    He also helped establish the Wildlife Refuge in Alviso.
    Ever been there?
    Maybe you should take a field trip.

  279. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 4:04 pm #

    I meant that last remark also for Eleuthero

  280. Al Klein June 24, 2010 at 4:05 pm #

    Asoka: what Obama OUGHT to do is remove BP from running the show regarding the leak in the Gulf. The Army Corp of Engineers should be put in immediate charge. Why are we allowing this international travesty to be handled by a private company – i.e. BP? Somehow we developed a tortured rationale to inject our government 8000 miles away in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we cannot see that the Gulf tragedy is rightfully in the government’s bailiwick. I guess BP owns the Gulf. A lot of people call Obama a Socialist. Would that it were true!

  281. Al Klein June 24, 2010 at 4:20 pm #

    Wagelaborer: You are absolutely correct. If IQ were the only discriminator, everybody would want to live next to Ted Kaczynski (the Unibomber). There are many other meaningful characteristics: fidelity, veracity, generosity, dependability, etc.

  282. envirofrigginmental June 24, 2010 at 4:26 pm #

    Yes. Agreed.
    “They” are still unconscious, lining up at the drive-thru’s in their Hemi’s ordering 500 calorie burgers and super-sized soft drinks. The meek shall inherit the earth.
    But is the answer that we simply through our hands in the air, walk away and say “it is what it is”.
    I am not a leader, nor a corporate exec nor a politician, but I have a position that enables me to make decisions that have immense environmental consequences that span over decades. I take that role seriously. I think everyone has that ability.
    Inevitably, we lead by example.
    Given that governments and corporations are morally bankrupt, I think we in the West have an opportunity, albeit late in the game, to take a leadership role… simply as citizens, even if we did unknowingly buy all the tickets for Steerage on the Titanic and are now selling them worldwide.

  283. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 4:33 pm #

    Christians seem to think that it is OK to kill over one billion Muslims in revenge for 9-11.
    ===========
    Not to diminish the horror of it all Wage, but I think the figure is closer to a million. Having been a number-cruncher all my life I am always surprised when I run across people who have no idea the difference between a million, a billion or a trillion. They know these are some kinda huge numbers but they couldn’t tell you which is larger, smaller or inbetween. I’ll venture that Cash has noticed this too.
    But, numbers aside, and getting back to the story of your son and his rag-head frie … strike that … his muslim friend (really, I typed that just to see if I can get a rise out of that faggot Enviro) let me get this straight. Your son and his friend cut out of a church service because they suspected “non-denominational” was a bullshit come-on (which, no doubt it was) and then they were pissed when they found out if they’d stuck around for the real estate pitch (as it were) they could’ve had a free meal … like the kid who murders his parents and then falls on the mercy of the court because he’s an orphan. Then you, in turn get pissed at the church-lady for not going out to find your kid and his friend (who were probably smoking a joint behind a billboard somewhere) and telling them to please come and have breakfast.

  284. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 4:48 pm #

    that we simply through our hands in the air
    =================
    When I saw this I nearly through up my lunch laughing. As you read threw these posts you see some funny shit.

  285. envirofrigginmental June 24, 2010 at 4:57 pm #

    I could just kiss you Q! :-)
    You know.. after that post, I realized that you could have just as easily have been a woman. I hastily assumed you were a man. What a clusterfuck that would have been… on me! Ha!

  286. envirofrigginmental June 24, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    OK. You got me!
    You will also find that I am a dyslexic typist. One of my many flaws. I am giving you forewraning! ;-)

  287. asoka June 24, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    Qshtik and Enviroman,
    A McDonalds Big Mac Cheeseburger has 704 calories.
    http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-big-mac-cheeseburger-i21100
    There are 1.5 BILLION Muslims on earth and some people mistakenly consider them a threat. Sad.
    http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

  288. asoka June 24, 2010 at 5:03 pm #

    http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
    There are 1.5 BILLION Muslims and some consider them a threat.
    There are 704 calories in a Big Mac Cheeseburger.

  289. asoka June 24, 2010 at 5:05 pm #

    There are two post with essentially the same information, except I left out the word “mistakenly” in the second post… a critical omission that changed the meaning.
    The world’s 1.5 BILLION Muslims are not a threat to anyone.
    The world’s handful of radical terrorists are a threat as long as the USA occupies Muslim lands.

  290. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 5:19 pm #

    There is only so much that can be said about BP and the hole that is getting bigger by the day…
    ===================
    Finally! This line is something from Asoka I can agree with.
    There are a lot of people here who think if every post is not about the oil spill – informing with great mathematical precision just how fucked we are, how many barrels it comes to, and how many round trips you could make to the moon in a car on the gasoline equivalent lost in the tragedy assuming 13 gals per tank and 20 miles per gal with a headwind of 2.4 miles per hour etc etc, blah blah blah – well then you’re a heartless bastard and you don’t have a clue.

  291. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 5:56 pm #

    I realized that you could have just as easily have been a woman.
    ====================
    Shakespere frequently used double negatives but in the hundreds of years since his time linguists came to realize that a double negative turns the meaning around backwards from what was intended and they’ve been trying to stamp out that mis-usage ever since. Language mavens also reject the use of the double “have.”
    What you need to do Enviro is stop relying on the adhominem attack – that I must be gay or female to find fault with your writing – and try proofreading what you write before you submit it.

  292. Nudge June 24, 2010 at 6:14 pm #

    Tree, your comment about “being easy on me” was so laughingly funny that I nearly fell out of the chair. Of course you’ve been easy on me, my dear fellow citizen! Think of leverage, where you stand, what you’ve got to work with, and what you’re [amusingly] hoping to achieve. Think. I know it’s hard for you, but try anyway.
    I say this entirely without rancor: there are more intelligent things than floating in my cereal most mornings, and it’s not because my food is so rich. Rather, it’s because you’re intellectually duller than you could possibly know. But continue in that vein if you must. I am going to keep laughing day after day while you furrow your brow and dig ever-deeper into your self-made pit o’ anger. Lap it up, mister. Grow those frown lines some more. Heh. **
    Oh, by the way, if you or any of the other racists think your remarks are interesting or mainstream or even the tiniest bit applicable to what goes on in the real world, please, by all means, try posting them on any mainstream blog. Other forum owners will do what JHK neglects to do. And should you find yourself getting kicked off 99 out of the 100 forums in which you’ve tried posting your painfully dull “Waaah, I don’t like black people, mommy, they’re different from us!” nonsense, perhaps even you could dimly grope toward the unwelcome conclusion that your junk is neither mainstream, not interesting, nor applicable to much of what goes on in the real world.
    Carry on.
    ** Apologies to the late Douglas Adams.

  293. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 6:23 pm #

    and I’ve had the misfortune to mingle with your brand of faggot.
    =============
    When you mingled I hope you had the good sense to use a condom.

  294. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 6:26 pm #

    Alright, Crud, the Totalitarian fink, has assumed a most infuriating, condescending attitude. Take a look at the Arizona law and the attempts to keep out the Mexicans in the town in Nebraska. What we say DOES have relevance in the real world. Don’t feel so secure in your domain, the politically correct Orwellians have only ruled — largely by threat of lawsuit and through influence in the courts and schools — since the passage of the Civil Rights act in 1964. What is your speciality, Crud? Do you have a fat ass from sitting around stuffing your face and pushing paper?
    Geoff

  295. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 6:29 pm #

    Here is a little something that shows what effect diversity, particulary an excessive Latino influx, has when it comes to dealing with natural disasters.
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1994/05/index.html
    Andrew Strikes
    In 1992, Miami got an extra dose of third-world bad luck that was a perfect metaphor for the past 30 years: Hurricane Andrew blew in from the south, just like the immigrants, and wrecked 80,000 homes and 82,000 businesses. One hundred sixty thousand shelterless people were left staring at $20 billion worth of property damage.
    Miami promptly ceased to be the capital of the Caribbean. Venezuela sent no utility repairmen to help the city get back on its feet; they came from South Carolina, Georgia, and Alabama. No Cuban or Dominican or Nicaraguan churches sent food or set up soup kitchens; the Baptists and Presbyterians took care of that. And, of course, it was the American Red Cross, the U.S. Army, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, and the Salvation Army that came to the rescue. Oddly, no one complained that the rescuers spoke only English. When it came time to staff the We Will Rebuild Committee, who should step forward but the remnants of the old “Anglo” elite. “We have no tradition of philanthropy,” mumbled the rest.
    The hurricane was a perfect demonstration of who invades and destroys, and who pays the price. Somehow, no one noticed. AR

  296. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 7:02 pm #

    according to the Asian Carp Regional Coordinating Committee.
    ==================
    An offshoot of SNCC I presume?

  297. Nudge June 24, 2010 at 7:06 pm #

    Eleuthero earlier stated that he would no longer speak with me directly. Truly, this is flattering coming from one such as him. It’s like Hitler refusing to talk with me, or Pat Buchanan, or Sarah Palin. Very well. I shall work with Eleuthero on his written request.
    But if someone else here does still speak with him, please let him know that his claims to possession of some form of intellect would be slightly less sniggeringly facetious if he could manage the oldest of text-input devices (the QWERTY keyboard) which is so old that it was around long before grid electricity was. That he continues to hammer out hard carriage returns here, despite the many entreaties here requesting otherwise, points to him being intellectual in pretty much the same way that the mounting numbers of unemployed people point to president Obama’s success at creating lots of new jobs.
    Others besides me have noted how the racist posters here go for unusually long cut-and-paste snippets that have nothing to do with the topics expressed in Jim’s parent posts every week, and how they spend an excessive amount of time repeating the same stuff over and over and over. Hate, hate, hate, some of these guys seem to live and breathe nothing but hate. It’s all they can do, like an old record player for which there’s only one vinyl platter left, with the recording getting ever so fuzzier with each successive play.
    Contrast this with the use of language by the others who are following up with the topics covered in Jim’s post. Their repetition level is much lower (except perhaps for 8M, no offense to ya guy), the cut-and-paste verbiage content is much lower and far better-targeted to what’s relevant here, and the level of hate expressed is low to nonexistent except when folks get into the usual Bushco vs Candy Crapping Unicorn arguments.
    These posting differences and language differences imply that the racist posters are basically pretty lonely people who haven’t got lives (perhaps their bitterness has repelled everyone around them – this has happened to the people I know who write for American Renaissance) and who like the sound of their own voices (or the modern equivalent thereof, ie, seeing their words posted here, dull and repetitious and irrelevant as they are) since it’s basically all the social interaction they get.
    Since he is no longer talking with me, I’m interested in reading Eleuthero’s past posts to get a glimpse into the process by which someone might start off as a well-meaning citizen, one who pursues a noble profession such as teaching, and somehow end up a sorry bitter old basket case who, in his own words, doesn’t want to “stroke out from anger.” (6/23/2010 8:27pm) Clearly this doesn’t happen overnight.
    Anger is pretty powerful stuff. As anyone who’s made it past age 5 or so has learned, it’s one of those strong negative emotions that can consume you but only if you allow it to. That “only if you allow it to” part cannot be stressed enough. Anger does not just land on you from above in the same fashion as might the proverbial 16-ton weight shown in the Roadrunner cartoons. Anger is instead more like a very-slow-growing deep-rooted weed that does not grow except with the express care and feeding by the person in whom the anger grows.
    One of the most potent Miracle-Gro things with which to feed anger is the indirect stuff which is never part of a proper social interaction, like someone else grabbing the last parking space just seconds before you arrive, or people jostling in a queue and then not discussing the incident after, or someone cutting you off rudely (and dangerously) on the road, with the two of you never seeing each other again. These are the sorts of things that so many people use to feed their hate and anger, and it seems like Eleuthero has indulged pretty heavily in these things. I still need to go back and read what he’s posted here to get the gist of it, but, hey, helping Eleuthero avoid an anger-fueled stroke seems like a worthy goal. I don’t dislike him or the other racists as much as I feel sorry for them, or pity them, or wish they’d climb out of their hate-bunkers, but, hey, I’m an optimist.
    Have any of you ever had the experience of deliberately going only 5mph or so above the speed limit in an attempt to do your civic duty to keep the roads safe for everyone using them, including yourself? It’s quite interesting seeing the parade o’ tailgaters that will invariably make themselves known to you. Some of them get so close that you can see them screaming out loud, their faces contorted into some derivative of hate. No doubt they’ve calculated to within seconds the time at which they’ll arrive at destination IF, and only if, many many separate circumstances along the route line up perfectly, ie, clear roads, all lights being green, not getting pulled over for speeding, etc.
    This is actually an interesting kind of thing. Here you are, obeying the law, setting a good example for any student drivers who may be around, not endangering any other users of the road, etc, and yet somehow the aggravated tailgater riding your bumper (and probably pounding the dashboard while screaming obscenities) have transmuted all of that into him imagining that /you/ are doing something wrong to /him/. Whiskey tango foxtrot!
    Anger is no more than what you feed it. As an example, consider what happens when a normal person gets cut off by another driver, says “oh well” to him/herself, and continues on, glad that it didn’t turn into an accident or a road-rage problem. A racist, by contrast, put in the same situation, will note if the other driver is [insert the ethnicity they don’t like] and mentally add it up to a long, long list of hatchmarks totaling all the perceived wrongs done to them by those other people, thus feeding that hate a little more. However, if cut off by another driver of the ethnicity they belong to, the reaction is “that other driver is a jerk” and it ends there.
    I hope the racists here have posted enough to identify the particular things with which they’ve been feeding their cancer-like internal pits o’ anger.

  298. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 7:14 pm #

    I know the difference between a million and a billion. Pretty soon you’re talking real numbers. When I googled the question, for backup, I found that the numbers are in dispute, but no one says one million.
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_numb.htm
    And, to your second point, yes.
    And why should they have to listen to a pitch for a meal at a supposedly public school sponsored event?

  299. wagelaborer June 24, 2010 at 7:23 pm #

    And the parent murderer who begs for mercy because he’s an orphan is the stereotypical definition of chutzpah.
    How is expecting to have breakfast for which your mother has prepaid, and which was pitched as available to all participants,not just the genuflecting ones, chutzpah?

  300. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 7:29 pm #

    with our not-so-tacid agreement
    ==================
    Groan … it’s tacit. Perhaps you were thinking of flaccid (the default state of your penis).

  301. ozone June 24, 2010 at 7:41 pm #

    …”They” are still unconscious, lining up at the drive-thru’s in their Hemi’s ordering 500 calorie burgers and super-sized soft drinks. The meek shall inherit the earth. … EFM
    Yeah, and later in your post you allude to the small things that affect (effects a change in) the big picture. There ya go. Important perspective, IMHO.
    I hope you agree that “the meek” are not the fat-assed, ‘murcan-exceptionalist, cheeseburger-stuffing, willfully ignorant, oversized-vehicle-driving JERKWADS we’re [mostly] surrounded by, “through” little fault of our own. ;o)
    How DO the meek inherit the earth anyhoo?
    Well, I’ll tell you how this shit is gonna shake out…. Want to lay bets? Oh, you’ve bet your life; ah well, stakes is stakes…
    “The meek” will [by necessity] keep the products (energy, food, shelter, clothing, etc.) of their own hard labor to be distributed amongst themselves… and those that contribute nothing [but mouthings and bad ideas], get nothing. Pretty simple, and, of course, no guarantees of ultimate success, but that’s how sustainable societies will have to operate when reality rears its’ ugly head.
    Again, exclude talented people at your peril.

  302. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 7:57 pm #

    When I googled the question, for backup, I found that the numbers are in dispute, but no one says one million.
    ==============
    Please Wage, now you are starting to use Asoka’s debating tactics. Unless I’m mistaken your comment about a billion muslims had to do with how many had been killed in our current wars. Both you and Asoka know that you were NOT talking about the muslim population on the face of the earth. Personally, I have no idea how many muslims have been killed but I know damn well it is NOT one out of every 6 or 7 people on earth. Just admit it – you were sloppy in mentioning a stat in your original post. For future reference, the default excuse for using a b rather than an m is “it was a typo.”
    As to your son and the missed free meal … whatever … I don’t feel like whipping a dead horse at this moment.

  303. ozone June 24, 2010 at 8:07 pm #

    “… I don’t feel like whipping a dead horse at this moment.” -Q
    As long as the dead horse wasn’t pulling a BUSLOAD of folks to their 300-floor high-rise, I guess that’s okay. Otherwise, whip it good! ;o)

  304. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 8:21 pm #

    Well, Nudge that last comment was better reasoned and well expressed and did not contain your usual doses of argumentum ad hominem and appeals to an absent audience. I will admit there were a number of experiences involving the US department of education that were untoward. However, I don’t carry much in the way of lasting grudges as regards people driving behavior, obnoxious as it is.
    How does one explain that when the black population goes up by a factor of 40, the murder rate goes up 58 times? Admit it Nudge, if we met in person, I might call you a rude B**CH. I am not interested in robbing you. What do you think a gang of 15 black male teenagers would do to you in a dark alley in their territory?
    Here is more from your favorite site:
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1994/05/index.html
    Into the Lead
    Washington, DC, which has for years been the murder capital of the nation, has lost that distinction to Gary, Indiana. In 1993, the city of 119,125 had 110 killings, which gives it a rate of 93 per 100,000. Washington has only about 75 murders per 100,000. What makes Gary so dangerous? According to the 1990 census, its population was 80 percent black, whereas that of the nation’s capital was only 66 percent black. Gary’s blacks are approaching the unhappy distinction of killing off one of every thousand inhabitants every year.
    It is instructive to compare the murder rates of these two cities with that of the nation as a whole, which is about 9.5 per 100,000. It is even more instructive to compare them with rates for areas that are still overwhelmingly white. Iowa (96 percent white) and New hampshire (98 percent white) both had murder rates in 1992 of 1.6 per 100,000.

  305. diogen June 24, 2010 at 8:46 pm #

    Greetings Clusterfuckers. I know many of you won’t be caught dead reading UTNE in a public place, but I wanted to share with you an article about Cleveland UTNE did in the July-Aug issue, Cleveland’s Comeback. Here’s an excerpt:
    “It is one of the only cities in the country to have approved an urban garden zoning overlay, a response to local food advocates who wanted to protect community gardens from being destroyed by developers. And last year advocates won a hard-fought battle for an ordinance allowing city residents to raise chickens, bees, and even cows and goats in their backyards. At the top levels, the mayor and other city officials have agreed to identify policies that make land use central to their green economic agenda.”
    More at http://www.utne.com/Politics/Clevelands-Comeback-Vacant-Land-Green-Infrastructure.aspx
    So, could we conclude that when things get really grim, people will do the right thing? I’m not convinced of that yet, but signs are good in Cleveland. We have 225 community gardens in the city, several dozen farmers markets, many CSA offerings in the surrounding areas. And don’t worry about the Asian Carp in the lake, it’s good eatin’ (no worse than Catfish at any rate). And soon we’ll have high-speed rail to Columbus and Cincinnati (although no one has figured out yet why would anyone want to go to Cincinnati :) Personally, I think this may be a big mistake, urban public transport should come before inter-city. If I take the train to Columbus, what do I do when I get off the train as there’s no good light rail and only marginal BUS options (we need 8M to run COTA :)
    OK, need to go harvest our green peas, new potatoes and baby beets.
    Tschüss,
    Diogen

  306. Nudge June 24, 2010 at 8:53 pm #

    Tree wrote: “You do not have ownership or control of this forum .. blah blah blah”
    Gosh, Tree, you’re right. You and your racist buddies haven’t got control of it either. None of us have any more right to be here than anyone else does. Was that not clear to you from the beginning of your use of this space, the way you came here uninvited and posted lots of unwelcome off-topic garbage? Unless you’d like to argue that some have more right to it? Go ahead.
    If you feel you’re the innocent victim of some nasty words splashed about this forum, then by all means go apply to The Man (ie, write to Mr. Kunstler) for protection. Go ahead, suggest to him that anyone who mocks your racism must be banned from the comments section. Oh, the irony .. frankly, you racists are about as welcome here as a serial child molester would be welcome at a teen slumber party. Or perhaps even less welcome than that. It would be funny if you feel the need to some protection here from people who think differently from you. Ooooooh, the horror.
    It sounds as if Envirofrigginmental and some of the others have got the right of it. Rather than ban you racists, I would rather study what makes you tick. After all, this is not the only time a group of imperfectly-connected not-quite-acquaintances (in this case, the non-racist participants of Mr Kunstler’s blog who are here to discuss PO-related and LE-related issues) will encounter a sub-cadre of racist jerks who are openly hijacking the discussion venue and attempting to fill it with their useless, non-applicable hate-filled tripe. This is as good a place as any for civic-minded citizens to study racists, see what makes them tick, learn how to work cooperatively around them, and so on.
    In case you hadn’t noticed, dealing with the future is going to require the active, intelligent, and aware participation of ALL the adults on deck ~ not just the ones who don’t elicit that “Waaah, mommy, they’re different from us!” reaction from you on account of their skin color.

  307. diogen June 24, 2010 at 8:59 pm #

    One more thing, I just finished reading DEPLETION AND ABUNDANCE by Sharon Astyk, now posting at http://sharonastyk.com/
    She used to post at casaubonsbook.blogspot.com/ under JEWISHFARMER screen name (Vlad, imagine the words jew and farmer used in the same sentence :) Anyway, great book that I heartily recommend, a mix of how-to on the dirt patch with reflections on life in the slow lane. Enjoy.
    Trip, if you’re reading this, what’s happening on your dirt patch? Didn’t you have a blog somewhere?

  308. diogen June 24, 2010 at 9:01 pm #

    You go Nudge, read ‘em the riot act!!!!

  309. Nudge June 24, 2010 at 9:02 pm #

    Tree, you’re back at it with the statistics. This is just more elaborate dress-up nonsense to support the fact that you simply don’t like people of certain other skin colors. I’m sure any number of intelligent people from the group you maligned (above) can find plenty of “supporting facts” to show why they’re better.
    It would be a lot more healthy for you to simply admit out loud that you dislike people of other skin colors (whether you know them personally or not, whether you’ve had any interactions with them or not) simply on the basis of their skin color. But perhaps you’re still groping about with these things.
    The mere fact that any group of racists, regardless of the color of their skin or the religion they follow, can find “supporting facts” should be a mega-clue to anyone seeking to show if there’s any objectivity to racism or not. I haven’t tried it, but I’m pretty sure that racism can be shown rather concisely, in perhaps 200 words or less, to be utterly relative and thus not at all absolute in any meaningful way, shape, or form. Perhaps it’s more like 300 words. I’ll try it one of these days. No statistics are needed to support the outcome.

  310. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 9:10 pm #

    Folks have been talking about the over-population of the planet and the over-consumption of resources.
    Dealing with the issues of gens and genetics is relevant to that.
    Geoff

  311. diogen June 24, 2010 at 9:14 pm #

    Tree, it’s really sophomoric of you to use statistics to show what’s just common sense: Blacks and Hispanics constitute socio-economic underclass, and underclass is crime-prone (and all other social ills you repeat ad nauseam). It’s simple, genius.
    p.s. Q, don’t have a cow if it should be ad nauseUm, I don’t care.

  312. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 9:35 pm #

    Sorry to inform you Nudge … your sermon on anger is way too long and way too lame. Further, the word is hashmark not hatchmark (you obviously didn’t serve in the military). A hashmark is an insignia on the sleeve indicating years of service. Or, as I currently use the term, a mark that may appear in my underwear shorts if I don’t have access to my beloved hand held bidet.

  313. Nudge June 24, 2010 at 9:36 pm #

    Tree wrote: “Folks have been talking about the over-population of the planet and the over-consumption of resources. Dealing with the issues of gens and genetics is relevant .. ”
    Tree, your argument (if it was one, not sure) was awfully swiss-cheezy.
    Unless you can show that black/white/mexican/whatever people categorically use more fuel/land/oil/energy/food than each other, on a clearly demonstrable basis that carries across all income/gender/IQ/upbringing levels, racism has NOTHING to do with overpopulation and the overconsumption of resources.
    That being said, it would be a slam-dunk to prove that white people (the richest of which are in western Europe and in north America) use lots more oil per capita than anyone else. What might an objective observer infer from this? That whites are inherently wasteful of resources?
    This is Mr Kunstler’s blog, which he’s generous enough to share with us, so we shouldn’t be discussing this racist tripe unless he brings up racist tripe in his posts. Which, I might point out, he does not do. I’ve read every single one of his books cover to cover many times, and I don’t recall him ever making the kind of blanket-statement nonsensical claims you racists do about one sub-group being superior to any other.

  314. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 9:49 pm #

    All that, 40 acres and a mule and a bag of chips. Maybe they expect a life-time supply of corn fritters, black-eyed peas, bbq spare ribs, some okra, and water-melon along with a 40-ouncer to wash it all down.
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1994/05/index.html
    Citizen Outrage
    One of the latest schemes by blacks to get money from whites is to try to pass laws that would make the government pay reparations for slavery (see AR cover stories, June and July, 1993). In a letter to the editor of The San Francisco Chronicle of Feb. 24th, a reader reacted with refreshing outrage:
    “No! No! No! No! Yet another attempt by the black “community” to levy, by coercion, a guilt tax on the rest of us!
    “Yet another attempt by underachieving, separatist blacks to obtain, by legal fiat, what they are incapable of achieving through honest hard work …
    “Someone had better explain to them that when the internal parasite becomes too greedy, it kills its host and thereby commits suicide.
    “When in God’s name, is enough, finally enough?”

  315. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 9:57 pm #

    That wasn’t where I was going. Here is where I was going. People have been talking about the DIE-OFF on peakoil.com and perhaps here. If resources become in short supply, it will become increasingly necessary to decide how they will be distributed. Issues of nationality, race, clan, and relatedness are germane to distribution of resources and how well people adjust to times of challenge and scarcity.

  316. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 10:04 pm #

    “… I don’t feel like whipping a dead horse at this moment.” -Q
    =================
    That’s right … I’ve had a long hard day here correcting other people’s mistakes and making the most snide and sarcastic comments my mind could think up and I get tired. I’m pushing 70 ya know.

  317. Qshtik June 24, 2010 at 10:17 pm #

    p.s. Q, don’t have a cow if it should be ad nauseUm, I don’t care.
    ============
    The fact that you even mention it proves that you do care. That’s reward enough for me. It shows I’m making some headway.

  318. treebeardsuncle June 24, 2010 at 11:55 pm #

    Here are some more facts you don’t like to see. Take it as being relevant to where you paranoid nut-cases locate your bug-out hide-out.
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1994/06/index.html
    The Color of Crime
    How much violent crime is there in America and who commits it?
    by Samuel Taylor

    There is actually more “black-on-white” than “black-on-black” criminal violence. This fact is almost never reported.
    The only really inexcusable failing in federal statistics is that they almost always include Hispanics in the “white” category rather than break them out separately. Hispanics, now about nine percent of the population, are not so violent as blacks but they are markedly more violent than whites. By calling them “white,” the Department of Justice exaggerates white crime rates.
    Despite this, the contrast between black and “white” crime rates is staggering — and virtually unknown. Many of the figures in this article must be derived from Department of Justice statistics, and journalists almost never do this.
    Murder and Robbery
    In 1992, police reported 23,760 murders and non-negligent homicides. Although they are only 12 percent of the population, blacks committed about 55 percent of the murders. This means that murder rates, by race, were dramatically different. “Whites” (including Hispanics) killed at a rate of 5.1 per 100,000 while the rate for blacks was 43.3 per 100,000. Blacks are therefore 8.5 times more likely to commit murder than whites and, all by themselves, account for the fact that the United States has a higher murder rate than England or Italy (see story on page 6).
    Most of the time, blacks killed other blacks, but about 13 percent of their victims were white. Whites also usually killed each other, but six percent of their victims were black. In all, there were 2.7 times as many whites killed by blacks as blacks killed by whites, which means that any given black is 17 times more likely to kill a white than vice versa.
    Robbery, or “mugging,” is the street crime that people fear most, and in 1992, 672,478 robberies were reported to the police. Victimization studies show that only about 60 percent of the victims of a successful robbery report the crime to the police, so the real figure was well over one million — one for every 250 people every year. Robbery is very much a black specialty, and blacks committed over 60 percent of the year’s robberies. This means that blacks committed robbery at a rate of 1,343 per 100,000 while the white rate was 126 per 100,000 — less than one tenth the black rate. When it comes to gang robbery — perhaps the quintessentially black crime — blacks are 22 times more likely than whites to be offenders.
    Unlike murder, robbery is not a crime that blacks mainly practice on each other. Over half of the robberies by blacks are of whites (including Hispanics). White muggers (including Hispanics) choose blacks as their victims only about four percent of the time and steal from other whites the rest of the time. Put differently, for every black robbed by a white, there are 24 whites robbed by a black.

  319. treebeardsuncle June 25, 2010 at 12:27 am #

    And furthermore, the follow-up article shows that a black man is 72 times as dangerous as a white women. Note that men are 9 times as dangerous as women and blacks are 8 times as dangerous as white. So, think about it ladies, you really should not be joining the military (in a fighting capacity) or traveling alone at night in the wrong parts of town. In a real combat zone, little white and asian women don’t belong.
    Black men do have their uses, as they are generally low-iq psychopathic sex-crazed primitives with strong musculature, a long reach, and the ability to run at high speed , they make effective warriors, especially in hand-to-hand combat.
    http://www.amren.com/ar/1994/06/index.html
    Race and the Law
    by Marian Evans
    The prosecution tried to prevent this testimony, but the defense was allowed to call an expert witness to explain to the jury the grisly facts about differential murder rates. The witness made a very simple case. He pointed out that men are about nine times more likely to commit murder than women, and it is appropriate to adjust defensive behavior according to the sex of an assailant. Men are more dangerous than women, so it is more reasonable to shoot a male attacker than a female attacker. He also explained that young men are far more dangerous than old men, and therefore pose a threat that can be more justifiably met with lethal force.
    Finally, he pointed out that blacks are more than eight times more likely to commit murder than whites. This means that blacks are almost as much more dangerous than whites as men are more dangerous than women. Just as it is legitimate to fear men more than women and young men more than old men, it is legitimate to fear blacks more than whites. Mr. Osby faced two men who fit perfectly the profile of the most dangerous, violent people in America, and was therefore justified in using deadly force.

  320. asoka June 25, 2010 at 1:02 am #

    “Put differently, for every black robbed by a white, there are 24 whites robbed by a black.”
    Those are bogus statistics. Most bankers are white, and they have robbed billions of dollars from poor black homeowners, by tricking them into balloon payment loans, which forced them into foreclosure and then they robbed the blacks of their homes.
    Ain’t no comparison … when it comes to robbery whites win hands down. Whites have institutionalized theft.

  321. Vlad Krandz June 25, 2010 at 2:15 am #

    I have read a bit of Rand in the past but not lately. The phrases you refer to are not specific to her, but are a part of our intellectual tradition in general – and should be applied in any truly rational discussion.
    For those who haven’t read “Atlas Shrugged” – now is a good time. The collapse she wrote about is happening now. The Mis-Management Class has not the wit to stop it. The real brains have retired to their own gardens – as the Chinese Classics advise the superior man to do when he is scorned. The truly superior man would be glad to help – but he doesn’t NEED to. He has a rich and fufilling life already. That’s the difference between them and the power mongers and greed heads.
    Rand is very strong on these points, but less so on how the ideal society should run. She refused to see the crushing power of the free market on ordinary human beings.

  322. Vlad Krandz June 25, 2010 at 2:37 am #

    Glad that you are against uncontrolled immigration. I agree btw that We have an unbalanced civilization and have helped unbalance the rest of the world. We should never have exported our unsustainable way of life. We should have used our know how to have created a sustainable high tech way along with a culture that supported that: keep the birth rate steady at two to three kids per couple – in other words, no feminist careerism leading to sterility and likewise, discourage fundamentalists having eight and up. And of course, eugenic overview leading to tax breaks for superior couples if they have lots of kids, and storng incentives towards voluntary sterilization for the sub normals. You can’t have a superior culture if your elite wont breed.
    Once we had developed sustainable technologies, we could have given the rest of the world THAT, instead of what we did give them. All water under the bridge now though.
    I don’t have a completely one track mind – I was the one who introduced the possibility of a sudden catastrophe in the gulf. A number of people clicked on my link and discussed it.

  323. Vlad Krandz June 25, 2010 at 3:09 am #

    Al Contraire, I do believe in your first point, that everyone has the right to a decent life even the low IQ’ed. More specifically, I believe that ordinary people have the right to have smarter people than themselves make decisons for them. Ordinary people, with IQ’s 100 and below, will always be duped by the smart predators. Democracy MEANS totalitarianism of some kind exactly as Plato said. We currently have a Plutocracy which they can scarecely hide anymore. This will devolve in the near future to a naked Oligarchy or even a Dictatorship of One.
    Your second point: you are wrong. There is a relationship between morality and IQ. See the work of Laurence Kohlberg. High IQ creates the possibility of real insight and empathy. This is different than just the usual “being nice”. Most people can’t tell the difference. Note I said possibility. The mere high IQ itself does not guarantee high morality. The mad scientists and Dick Cheneys are all too real. No, it merely creates the possibility that high morality can develop. We know the importance of nurture, emulation and modeling, and socialization in general. We are not the fanatics after all. It’s you people who deny one whole side of the issue – that of nature or genetics. We have never done so.
    It’s a complicated subject in any case. Kohlberg’s tome goes for 400 pages or so. And his disciples have filled tens of thousands of pages since. Someone can be very moral at a low level but have no universality at all. The Mafioso are often good family men for example. Or a woman could be a great wife and mother, but hate people of another race. Or the converse – try to fufill a universal level of morality but fall down on current responsibilities. Kohlberg puts morality into three levels: pre-conventional, conventional, and post conventional. For a woman to ignore her own children and go clubbing, would be pre-conventional. Good mothering would be conventional. And loving all children not just her own, would be post conventional.
    Our Culture had a vision of the post conventional and then ruined it by poring scorn and contempt on the conventional level – as if the conventional level was the pre-conventional.
    Trying to pass legislation that would allow illegals the right to not only stay here, but actually vote, is a perfect example of the post conventional appropriating the domain of the conventional. It will all end in chaos and madness. Kohlberg never addressed this himself since he wrote in the 50’s before this became a big problem. People in other cultures who attain post conventionality do not betray their own people and culture like people in our culture are now expected, nay mandated, to do.
    Tall people can look over their own fence and admire their neighbor’s garden. That’s not the same thing as leaving the gate open and inviting your neighbors to come in and take whatever they want.
    After all, a woman can love all children, but she can only really mother her own. To try to mother all children would be to ingore her responsibility to her own – which only she can do.

  324. peakinterest June 25, 2010 at 3:09 am #

    I believe it was nudge that said JHK doesn’t steer this forum towards the discussion of matters of race. I don’t recall saying it was he who did so. I believe Nudge implied that JHK should ban certain members of this forum because the content of their posts is offensive to him and others. I believe JHK has valid reasons for not doing so.
    First of all, as an author, his livelihood is dependent upon freedom of expression, and denying those who choose to post in his forum the same freedoms would be petty and foolish. He doesn’t strike as being either.
    Second, this forum may provide a window into the mindset of America’s diverse population, a valuable tool for someone who is in the business of theorizing about how such a population might react to various stimulii.
    I don’t personally find hate speech offensive, but I do regard it as a hallmark of ignorance. That said, I don’t see much outright hate speech in here, and when I do, it seems to be used in an attempt to elicit a response.
    I read some of the data regarding IQ, and while it is interesting data, I don’t think it has any bearing on an individual’s ability to enjoy their life, and to obtain some measure of personal happiness. As far as I’m concerned, that’s the only kind of success that matters.
    I don’t think that a political solution is possible to the any of the problems we face as a nation because the population is divided, and it is in the interest of those in power to keep it that way. It’s not about black, white, brown, red, or yellow anymore. It’s about green. As long as politicians can enrich themselves by ignoring the interests of their constituency, the downward spiral will continue unabated to the ruin of all. Except the top 5% that is.

  325. ak June 25, 2010 at 3:21 am #

    Q:
    “The first person who replys back to this post […]
    I’m sure you’ve meant ‘replies’, right?
    ?
    -AK

  326. Vlad Krandz June 25, 2010 at 3:31 am #

    In “The Long Emergency” Mr Kunstler discusses the possible problems Blacks will cause in the years to come. See pages 297-301. My favorite quote: “At their worst rap videos played on Cable TV resemble the war chants of a conflict not yet been joined. Only among a group as narcicissticly lost and clueless as white suburban America would these messages be welcomed as just another species of entertainment.”
    Before this passage he indicated that abberant behavior by Blacks or anyone else would not be tolerated during the Long Emergency. And in the final paragraph of this section, he indicates that Blacks may not accept the new strictness and may commence widepread rioting that might evolve into actual continual guerilla war.
    I bet you really like Rap Music, Nudge.

  327. eightm June 25, 2010 at 5:37 am #

    We are “anger”. We operate on “contrast” and “conflict”. It is the only thing humans really are: they are always fighting each other, always contrasting – opposing will powers, there is no solution to this because this is the elementary particle of the way our minds – brains – emotion systems work. Everything is a constant measure of “who” did “what”, “do I approve”, am I “against”, “am I approved of”, “does he/she like me”, and so on with ever more elaborate and complex internal narratives.
    We can paint a pretty “rational” picture that tries to hide the basis of our fundamentally simple emotion, pain/pleasure circuits interacting with others, but the truth is that the human mind is like a one transistor circuit, just like religion and god: obey god = pleasure, disobey = pain. It is like a short circuit with no where to go. And it will always be like this no matter how much you try to “think” your emotions away, you try to “think” your contrasts and conflicts away, or you try to “find solutions”, etc.
    There are no solutions: the only solution would be to change the way our minds are hardwired, to change the neural circuiting of our minds, but that would create a different entity from what a human being is. It would be something no longer related to being alive, or conscious, or human. Maybe better, but better by what scale ? What is the reference system in a world where all human judgments, activities and thought patterns are invented, not necessities of any kind, except those that we imagine are. All is arbitrary and a fluke. A quirk of nothing with no value.
    We are constantly conflicting and trying to find common ground with others, all at the same time, as parallel processes in a computer. And there are many more parallel processes going on in the mind, hate/love, against – for, conflicts and acceptance at the same time, etc. An infinite regression machine.
    Even the idea of any kind of “stability” or “normality” is flawed. There is no normal or stability, only instantaneous energy – mass configurations that are ever changing and will change forever, or can even stay still and be considered normal, but “normal” is a fairy tale. We don’t want “normal”, Normal is boring, we want contrast and change. Normal is death, and death is the ultimate solution to all.
    But the technological singularity will start to manipulate our neural circuits, we will change and be different.
    Nature must be killed, nature is the enemy and we must manipulate the universe to the highest possible degree. Therefore we must end the money system and be all on the same page, though a Technological Dictatorship and we need to achieve the Technological Singularity by completely changing all the neural circuits of everyone. Stick in wires and new signals in the ball of meat that is the mind, pour in wild chemicals. But then even the idea of a society or of individuals will be vague, but Progress will march on. Trillions of Skyscrapers and Giant Computers, Colonization of Stars, Technology wins, Nature loses…
    This idiotic idea of harmony with nature is so stupid: since the beginning of time man has had to fight with a hugely cruel nature, nature is the furthest thing away from this idealized “harmony”, this fairy tail view of the Ancient Indians in Harmony with Nature. What a comic book description of reality.

  328. Nudge June 25, 2010 at 6:00 am #

    Vlad wrote: “.. the possible problems Blacks will cause ..”
    There ya go again, dressing up what is fundamentally your dislike of black people in an elaborate suit of rationalizations in an attempt to prove there’s something objective about your dislike. There is not. Perhaps someday honesty will come more easily to you. In the end, all you’ve got is a bunch of codified dislikes that you’ve built (in your mind, nowhere else) into a card house of “proof” that people of other skin colors are bad or wrong or evil.
    Have you sought therapy for your issues, perhaps so that you don’t “stroke out from anger” like the rest of your racist buddies? Then again, maybe the bunch of you expiring from natural causes is the best possible outcome if your remain stuck at the “Waaah, mommy, I don’t like black people!” stage of thinking.
    Since there exist racists of every skin color, religion, nationality, and ethnicity, and since you’re stating only your own [warped] view from an extreme minority viewpoint, it might be interesting to hear what some of the racists from the other side have got to say about /you/ and your type. Betcha they can find plenty of ammo to “prove” that folks like you are evil or inferior .. probably just as much as you can find about them. Yawn. It’s about as “objective” as a religious argument.

  329. eightm June 25, 2010 at 7:38 am #

    The money system is just an invention, a place holder, a fake – make believe obstacle to the full expression of all of the excess capacity in the system: it is not a fight of Capital against Labor, but of Excess Productive Capacity against Ideology, against an ethic – moralistic inhibition of all of the excess capacity expressing itself to the fullest and creating total worldwide wealth. The money system creates interdictions to the free flow of wealth to everyone: if the builders could build a million new homes and skyscrapers all across the USA, they would do it right away and create more wealth for everyone.
    That being said, Humans are War, we are defined and operate on and exist only in warlike terms.

  330. messianicdruid June 25, 2010 at 9:22 am #

    “Hmm, Visigoths?
    … and infect us with the virus of irrational and groundless hate.”
    Is there anyone that deserves our rational and well-grounded disapproval? And then our unmitigated denial of power? If they have their way, will we all suffer for it? In your estimation, what acts {to differentiate from agendas} should be unacceptable to all governing bodies on this planet? Can you say something is bad and something else is not, without ascribing the inspection of fruit before words to negative tendancies?
    I know, just dream up some acronym or buzzword to use on them, to allow yourself to ignore what you are doing and defending so your heros can go on confusing the world “system” with language. A clean language will solve alot of this, but only if people are listening {hearing and speaking}. And get out of the “system”.

  331. messianicdruid June 25, 2010 at 9:36 am #

    EightM – I wonder: do you equate capacity with potential?

  332. gogreenordi June 25, 2010 at 9:43 am #

    Druid, I read what you said carefully several times, and I still have no clue what you were trying to say.

  333. messianicdruid June 25, 2010 at 9:48 am #

    “…it’s worth reporting these abjectly knee-jerk racists to the JDL or the SPLC.”
    Just remember to hold the dark side of the mirror towards yourself, or they won’t understand your point.

  334. messianicdruid June 25, 2010 at 9:53 am #

    “I read what you said carefully several times, and I still have no clue what you were trying to say.”
    I am trying to reflect the postional ambiguity of the original poster. Do not trouble yourself.

  335. Qshtik June 25, 2010 at 10:19 am #

    I’m sure you’ve meant ‘replies’, right?
    ===================
    Good catch. Because of your eagle eye I am unlikely to make that mistake again. The wonder is that 50 others did not jump all over me.

  336. Qshtik June 25, 2010 at 10:29 am #

    I’m sure you’ve meant ‘replies’
    ==============
    And I’m sure you meant you meant ‘replies’, right?

  337. messianicdruid June 25, 2010 at 10:31 am #

    “Betcha they can find plenty of ammo to “prove” that folks like you are evil or inferior .. probably just as much as you can find about them. Yawn. It’s about as “objective” as a religious argument.”
    No worries. If all you do is talk about people you don’t like you will never hurt them. You can say whatever you want, words don’t kill, it’s turning words into unlawful acts that cause harm. Let us all subscribe to the same measure: words are words, deeds are deeds. Talk don’t fight. A word fitly spoken will be ignored or heeded as it may, the alleged harm is self-inflicted.

  338. messianicdruid June 25, 2010 at 10:35 am #

    “We lose more lives annually to the crime of blacks killing blacks than the sum total of lynchings in the entire history of the country. We are far more threatened by the dope than the rope.” [Words of the week, Jet, 11/15/93.]
    “Come on people!” a quote avoided by blamers…

  339. budizwiser June 25, 2010 at 11:05 am #

    If any one wants to discuss “race” issues- then there are more than enough angles with respect to resource consumption to explore. Talk about racism – sheesh go on and discuss the expansion of the economies of China and India.
    I mean – just look at all those “slant-eyes” and rag-heads wanting cars!!! They didn’t invent cars, those rip-off mother fuckers…..
    America deserves to use 20% of the world’s petroleum. Its our god-given right for stopping Hitler and protecting the Jews. And besides all those gooks really want to do is screw all day and smoke poppy all night.
    What good is it to shoot a few niggers and wet-backs when you got the chinks and camel-jockeys breeding into the billions?
    Inquiring minds want to know – shouldn’t we blastin’ more of the mother fucks in the east, especially the call-centers.
    American ingenuity demands that we go for massive international body counts first, worry about the darkies later.
    Clusterfuck solved, you can thank me later….
    W

  340. Qshtik June 25, 2010 at 11:13 am #

    Envade is an obscure word which means to “fixate on grammar and spelling to the point of becoming annoying and anal.”
    ==================
    The last refuge of the lazy and error-prone writer is to label their editor “anal.”

  341. diogen June 25, 2010 at 11:33 am #

    >rag-heads wanting cars!!! They didn’t
    >invent cars, those rip-off mother
    If you want to take this road, it’s the Italians that should never have been let in on the invention of the automobile, have you seen they way they drive???
    >Its our god-given right for stopping Hitler
    >and protecting the Jews.
    As a German I can tell you, you didn’t protect the Jews, by helping win the War you protected the Germans, Russians, other Europeans and yourselves much MUCH more than the Jews still remaining alive in the camps and the elsewhere.
    WWII was NOT about the Jews, this is a misleading stereotype…
    Can we talk about something other than races and ethnicities now? What’s the latest wort on the oil gusher in the gulf? Hmm, perhaps we can blame the jews for that :)

  342. diogen June 25, 2010 at 11:41 am #

    Q, I sens the consensis hear that you woar out you’re welcom hear as an un-official pane-in-the- asse nitpiker thorne in the side anal iritant, espesially because you you’re self commit the sin your anoying others about. Why don’t you talk about someting else, it was funy at ferst but now its becom a tiresom noosance.
    Mit frendly regards :)

  343. Qshtik June 25, 2010 at 11:42 am #

    Below is a comment from Bill Bonner who writes for The Daily Reckoning, an on-line financial publication. It seems relevant to the conversation about race on this blog.
    ==================
    Yesterday, we went over to Mondawmin Mall to renew a driver’s license. Mondawmin is in a part of Baltimore that is 100% black.
    We drove by abandoned wrecks…and some tidy neighborhoods with attractive row houses.
    Blacks seem to have disappeared in America. In the ’60s and ’70s, they were the center of attention. How come they hadn’t integrated better, people wanted to know? How come there was such an income gap? What kind of racism still lurked in American society and how could we get rid of it?
    But then, Barack Obama was elected. Now, no one seems interested in racism…or in blacks. ‘If a black man can be elected president, the rest of the them can stop their bellyaching,’ people seem to say. ‘If they don’t succeed, it’s their own damned fault.’ At least, that seems to be the temper of the times.
    Instead, the media seems more interested in Hispanics. One of them is shot dead at the border. A town passes a law preventing illegal immigrants from working. The great state of Arizona reserves the right to ask for their papers at any moment.
    “Are you a citizen?” says the policeman. “Prove it.”
    Blacks and whites have been zombified. The brown man has not. Blacks and whites have the right papers. They get their checks, and their free food, and their government jobs. They carry the phone number of a tort lawyer in their pocket and hope someone hits them.
    Illegal aliens are practically the only real Americans left. They don’t have any contact with the zombie administration. (We don’t know that this is true, by the way…we’re just imagining…) They don’t register to vote…or to get food stamps…and they don’t complain when their employers harass them. They’re afraid of being deported!
    But back in the Mondawmin Mall the clerks were black, the customers of the Maryland Department of Transportation were black. Everyone was black but your editor. Of course, your editor grew up in the tobacco fields. In some ways, he is probably more black than most of the blacks at the mall, even though he is lilywhite. Our father came from an Irish family; they were fairly recent immigrants from Donegal. But our mother’s family had been in Tidewater Maryland since the reign of Queen Anne. Families – black and white – that have been in southern Maryland for 3 centuries are almost all related to each other. When we were growing up, a distant cousin, Geoffrey, lived across the road in a tenant shack. We weren’t supposed to know or mention that he was a cousin. He was black.
    But Geoffrey grew up, went to medical school and became a doctor, now practicing in North Carolina. We’re probably as big an embarrassment to him now as he was to us then.
    Later, we moved to a Baltimore inner city. It was the lure of architecture that led us thither – big beautiful houses built by Jews in the 19th century. We bought one in 1983 for $27,000. We fixed it up and lived there for 10 years.
    One of our favorite neighbors went by the name, Simms. That he had a first name or a last one, we were sure. What they were we never discovered.
    Simms was reliable. He would get rip-roaring drunk every Saturday night. In warm weather, he would get together a group of cronies and sit on the stoop and sing.
    “You are sooooo beautiful…” was one of his favorites. As he got drunker and drunker he would forget more and more of the words. ‘You are so beautiful’ was all he was left with at the end. Then, he’d fall dead asleep in a wheelbarrow so it was easy to cart him out of the way.
    But in the ’80s the inner city didn’t get better. It got worse. And when our children started growing up, we realized that we couldn’t let them out on the streets. It was too dangerous. So we moved out.
    The people in the Mondawmin Mall were all polite. We wouldn’t say that they were efficient. Efficiency did not seem to be something they were interested in. Many were probably unemployed or marginally employed. Time is not that precious when you are out of work. A process that should have taken 5 minutes dragged out for an hour.
    The young men all seemed to have tattoos…and pants down below their derrieres. One had to pull up his pants to keep them from falling around his ankles.
    The women often had tattoos too. Almost all the women over the age of 25 were huge. Many had clothing styles and hairstyles that your editor had never seen before.
    We took a number and sat down. From what we could figure there were 157 people waiting ahead of us. Another number was called every minute or so. It was going to be a long wait.
    Next to us sat a big man who looked like he might be a bricklayer or a mover. He was sturdy…with thick legs and arms. On the other side, a woman and her daughter kept up a conversation. The daughter was there to get a learner’s permit. Their accents were so strong, we had a hard time following the conversation. These were not Southern Maryland blacks. These were Baltimore ghetto blacks with an accent of their own.
    Mother: “Get off dat phone…you bin talkin’ all afternoon.”
    Daughter: “I’m talkin’ to daddy.”
    Mother: “Well, tell that son of a b*** to give me some money.”
    Daughter: “You gonna haf to tell him dat yosef.”
    Regards,
    Bill Bonner,
    for The Daily Reckoning

  344. asoka June 25, 2010 at 12:13 pm #

    “We lose more lives annually to the crime of blacks killing blacks than the sum total of lynchings in the entire history of the country. We are far more threatened by the dope than the rope.” [Words of the week, Jet, 11/15/93.]
    “Come on people!” a quote avoided by blamers…

    The quote is misleading. The message seems to be: Blacks kill blacks and therefore Blacks are violent and bad.
    If you look at FBI Crime Reports you will find that Whites kill Whites. So, are we to include that Whites are violent and bad?
    First of all, contrary to CFN pessimism and paranoia, crime is decreasing.

    Violent and property crime rates, including the rate of every type of violent and property crime measured by the National Crime Victimization Survey, declined from 1999 to 2008.

    Second, most crime is either white on white, or black on black.
    Third, in most crime the victims know the offenders (intimate partners, relatives, friends).
    Fourth, while crime is decreasing, it is falling most slowly among whites. Crime is decreasing more rapidly among Blacks than Whites.
    SOURCE:bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv08.pdf
    Let’s face it: guns and bad values don’t kill white people. White people kill white people.
    “White on White Crime is Destroying the Very Fabric of Our Nation”
    http://jacksonville.com/interact/blog/stanley_scott/2009-07-18/white_on_white_crime_is_destroying_the_very_fabric_of_our_nat

  345. wagelaborer June 25, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    That’s funny. You briefly admit that you might be mistaken (a first?), and then immediately assert that both Asoka and I knew what you had assumed.
    When I referred to Christians willing to kill Muslims, I didn’t mean just the ones already killed. I mean EVERY Muslim on the planet. All one+ billion of them. I have indeed heard good Christians call for such a thing.
    And I don’t care how old and tired you are. Screw you for dissing my son and his needs. (Just that mother instinct making me angrier at you than I ever have been when you dissed me).

  346. asoka June 25, 2010 at 12:30 pm #

    I want to thank the racists here for motivating me to look up the crime data.
    There have been so many white on white massacres (Columbine, church shootings, etc.) that I am truly alarmed.
    The federal government needs to fund a study of the gene structure of whites.
    Is there a biologically based explanation for the tendency of white males to slaughter strangers in public? We need to ask the hard questions and not shy away if the answers are politically incorrect.
    White people appear to be biologically disposed toward crime and violence.
    And I am not racist. Some of my best friends are white people. I believe in a more compassionate approach to white-on-white crime.
    [now taking tongue out of cheek. if this post sounded ridiculous, that’s how your racist posts sound to me]

  347. asoka June 25, 2010 at 12:49 pm #

    Wage,
    I, too, was shocked by Q’s outrageous and shameful behavior, trying to excuse what he said about your son and saying he is “pushing 70″
    It is one thing to constantly misspell words, misuse grammar, get facts wrong, and make erroneous assumptions.
    But there is no excuse for Qshtik’s attack on your son.
    Qshtik owes you a public apology.

  348. wagelaborer June 25, 2010 at 12:49 pm #

    Kunstler frequently brings up the possibility that unemployed, disenfranchised, ripped off former workers will get very violent.
    He seems to think that they will focus their violence on the guilty parties, especially on Wall Street and in the Hamptons, but most of us feel that if society breaks apart, the violence will be random, local, and personalized.
    Kind of like the Black communities, which lost their jobs first, many years ago, at the beginning of advanced industrialization and globalization.
    It is a documented fact that when unemployment goes up, so does alcoholism, child abuse, domestic violence, suicide and murder. Also animal abuse.
    Maybe this argument will be resolved as more and more white communities are driven into poverty, and we see how they respond.
    There are posters here who refer to their belief that arming themselves and killing is their particular way of preparing for The Long Emergency. They seem almost gleeful at the prospect.
    I assume that they are white, but TreeGuy and Eluethero never take them into account when frothing about black genetic propensity for violence.
    And, of course, the great crimes of robbery and murder, as Asoka points out, are committed by white people.

  349. asoka June 25, 2010 at 1:05 pm #

    Wage, regarding the Christian penchant for violence, it is understandable since the Judeo-Christian tradition advocates violence. It is written into their holy scriptures that nonbelievers should be killed. For example, 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 (NAB version) says:

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

    Born-again Christians have entered into a covenant with the God of Israel, so their violence is understandable, though reprehensible.

  350. wagelaborer June 25, 2010 at 1:09 pm #

    Thanks, Asoka, but I’m not holding my breath.
    Qstick only corrects grammar, not rudeness.

  351. progressorconserve June 25, 2010 at 1:51 pm #

    WOW….I’ve been trying to get registered on this site all week. This is a test. I’ll be back.

  352. asoka June 25, 2010 at 1:54 pm #

    CORRECTION: “If you look at FBI Crime Reports you will find that Whites kill Whites. So, are we to CONCLUDE that Whites are violent and bad?

  353. asoka June 25, 2010 at 1:58 pm #

    WELCOME TO CFN … ¡un manicomio muy genial!
    BTW, are you progressive or conservative? We welcome both here. The general theme is we have to conserve in order to progress. Conservation is the answer.

  354. asia June 25, 2010 at 2:24 pm #

    tell BB to write about financials, this stuff is junk:
    ‘Illegal aliens are practically the only real Americans left. They don’t have any contact with the zombie administration. (We don’t know that this is true, by the way…we’re just imagining…) They don’t register to vote…or to get food stamps…and they don’t complain when their employers harass them. They’re afraid of being deported’
    BB doesnt live in mexifornia does he?
    schools…the local JC has BY ITS OWN ADMISSION bout 1000 wetbacks enrolled.
    foodstamps????????????? huh???
    Bb is fulla s*it

  355. Cash June 25, 2010 at 2:34 pm #

    Yeah, I’ve noticed it. Sometimes I wonder what good it does to send people to school for so many years ie K-12.

  356. Cash June 25, 2010 at 2:55 pm #

    What can I tell you Wage, there are idiots everywhere. Like I’ve said in other posts stupidity is like a virus that passes from brain to brain. Idiot ideologies, religious and non religious, rely on people’s essential intellectual laziness. They take root and can fester for a long time. People go with the flow like all good herd animals.
    Let me see, we are evil so to redeem our sins God required a payment in blood so he incarnated himself as his own son and got himself lynched. Yeah that makes sense. See you in church.

  357. Qshtik June 25, 2010 at 3:14 pm #

    but I’m not holding my breath.
    ===================
    A wise decision.
    Here are some questions for which I expect no reply: How old is your son? Did he understand up front that you had pre-paid for his breakfast? Were you or he made aware that breakfast was scheduled to follow the non-denominational service? If so, why did he “skip” it (to use your word)?
    I’m an atheist too. I think ALL religions are ridiculous and elements within some are downright dangerous. But to believe those nasty “genuflecters” (catholics I presume) singled out your son for ill treatment is a stretch. I was a catholic up to age 18 when I ceased being observant because I doubted the existence of God and, in any case, could not swallow the dogma, but continued on at St Joe’s (a Jesuit school) to graduation. I never once observed an instance of the kind of behavior you allege.
    It seems to me you have a lot of anger built up in you over a whole host of issues associated with race and religion and you are doing your best to inculcate your son with all those same issues.
    Another stretch – of gigantic proportions – is your contention that christians (in general) would be willing (even desirous?) to kill ALL the muslims on earth (thought to be about 1.5 billion). Please show me some authoritative source that demonstrates that a large number of christians would like to see all the muslims on earth killed.
    This link that I googled says muslim deaths at the hands of the US totalled 288,000 over the past 30 years up to 11/30/09 (vs about 10,000 US deaths).
    http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/30/why_they_hate_us_ii_how_many_muslims_has_the_us_killed_in_the_past_30_years
    Now, you would have me believe that you actually believe – and the words in your post meant that christians in general are thinking something like this “288,000 muslims down and 1,499,712,000 muslims to go.” If you truly believe this you’ve got some serious “issues.”

  358. Cash June 25, 2010 at 3:18 pm #

    Oh sure, I agree the mujahedeen got US and Saudi help. But I think it depends on what source you read as to what their weaponry mostly consisted of. In any event, I read that the Soviets lost 15,000 troops in Afghanistan but the Afghanis lost around 1 million people. Fat lot of good all the high tech weaponry did.
    If you want to argue that the Soviets should not have invaded, with or without an invitation from the Afghan government, I would second the motion. The US and Muslim powers should also have stayed out.
    Anyway, the mujahedeen fundamentalists were/are serious assholes but look at the tens of millions that died under communism. So would Afghanistan have been better off under the Soviet boot? I’m not so sure that “progressives” stood a chance in Afghanistan under the Soviets. They were bloody butchers after all responsible for millions of deaths. And, by nature, Afghanistan is not Vancouver Island with its gentle artists and social activists.

  359. Cash June 25, 2010 at 3:29 pm #

    …these pathetic guys in suits selling newspapers in the mall saying:
    would you like to shake a black mans hand? – Asia
    Never seen that in this neck of the woods.
    As for Islam and the slave trade I’ve read that Muslim slave traders were active. Is this what you’re getting at?

  360. progressorconserve June 25, 2010 at 3:32 pm #

    Thanks for the welcome, Asoka. I am more of a social liberal and a fiscal conservative; with a strong libertarian streak thrown in. Perhaps, like others on here, I contain multitudes.
    At any rate…I’ve been reading JHK and these comment boards for a while now. This Gulf oil spill has gotten me energized enough to get a screen name and get on here and see if there’s something that can be done to help America’s oil problem.
    Now I’m not saying that TLE and TSHTF won’t happen and I’m not saying I’m not prepared if they do. I am, though, saying that I still have hopes for “technotriumphalism,” and don’t want to give up without a fight for my grandkid’s sake.
    So, let me start by posing two questions and I’ll log off.
    Can somebody give me a link to ONE good website that shows on a practical applied scientific level why renewable energy for transportation can be made to work?
    Conversely, can someone give me a link to ONE good website that shows on a practical applied scientific level why renewable energy for transportation can NOT be made to work?
    Everybody have a great weekend!
    I’ll be back.

  361. messianicdruid June 25, 2010 at 3:34 pm #

    “What is the reference system in a world where all human judgments, activities and thought patterns are invented, not necessities of any kind, except those that we imagine are.”
    We could call it EightMism. But it already has a name.

  362. Cash June 25, 2010 at 3:53 pm #

    I think our ruling class is evil and is uniquely evil at this particular time in history. – Wage
    I wouldn’t over do it. I think your politicians are buffoons. I mean a country the size of the US electing electing goofs like Dubya? And Bill Clinton? And nitwits like Palin making it to the upper echelons of national politics? And who can forget Dan Quayle. I get stitches thinking about it.
    The grotesques on Wall Street are in a league of their own. If you want to call them unique in their brand of evil I’ll go along. But compared to the monsters of history like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao the Wall Street boys and girls don’t register.
    I look at it like this: for many years the US had overwhelming superiority in terms of economic and military power. The Russians were on their backs, the Chinese were a piss poor agrarian nation with Nigerian living statndards. Who was there to oppose the US? What would other powers in history have done with such an enormous advantage? I think that from this perspective the US has been uniquely and admirably restrained and I think this reflects the essential good nature of the American people. Other powers would have opened the gates of hell. Can you imagine what Hitler and the Germans would have done? Once they were done with the Jews they would have systematically massacred Slavs and then after that who knows? They were working on nuclear weapons. What would they have done if they got there first?

  363. wagelaborer June 25, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    I don’t know why I even bother replying to you.
    Your editing skills are superb, but your reading comprehension is pathetic.
    I didn’t say that all Christians wanted to kill all Muslims.
    I said that I personally have been told by people who are rabid Christians that all Muslims should be killed.
    Is that clear enough for you?
    And leave my son alone, you punctilious prick.

  364. asoka June 25, 2010 at 4:03 pm #

    The Nordic region has already developed competencies in sustainable transportation.
    Examples range from small enterprises such as Marorka, to largescale
    demonstration projects such as the EDISON project. The well-functioning
    Nordic electricity market and the relatively low carbon footprint of the
    Nordic energy mix means that electric
    Progressorconserve asked:

    Can somebody give me a link to ONE good website that shows on a practical applied scientific level why renewable energy for transportation can be made to work?
    Progressorconserve, transportation in the Nordic region has very low greenhouse gas intensity and great potential for further development.
    Through both smaller community-based initiatives, and larger Nordic and European projects, the region has also built significant competencies
    in biofuels, hydrogen, and in promoting modal shifts to more sustainable modes of transport.
    Here is a related website. Hope it helps.
    http://www.nordicenergy.net/section.cfm?id=3-0&path=2,195

  365. wagelaborer June 25, 2010 at 4:14 pm #

    What I meant by uniquely evil was that at this point in history, they stand alone.
    I stand by that assessment.
    And parts of the US ruling class supported Hitler.
    And the US also supported Pol Pot against the Vietnamese.
    As for the others, I think that a comparative body count would be instructive.

  366. wagelaborer June 25, 2010 at 4:16 pm #

    As Noam Chomsky points out, the US corporate media never tires of mourning the million Cambodians killed by Pol Pot.
    However, the million Cambodians killed by America are never mentioned.

  367. Qshtik June 25, 2010 at 4:38 pm #

    I don’t know why I even bother replying to you.
    =================
    Ditto. This conversation has reached the fruitless stage.
    As to “punctilious prick” what can I say except nice alliteration.

  368. San Jose Mom 51 June 25, 2010 at 5:38 pm #

    I think when post-conventionals denegrated conventional moral traditions, they threw the baby out with the bathwater.

  369. Nudge June 25, 2010 at 5:52 pm #

    Oh, by the way, to anyone following this little illustration of how it really takes a village to take out the racist trash, you may have seen the initials AR bandied about, or the longer name American Renaissance.
    American Renaissance is to racism precisely what NAMBLA (gross-out warning .. it stands for North American Man Boy Love Association) is to pedophilia: it is an attempt to mainstream-ize what is fundamentally an odious, unwanted, and extreme-minority viewpoint about what’s acceptable and what’s not.
    People who think AR is right and good and just and all that stuff should really attempt to harmonize their opinions with reality by taking along stacks of copies of AR and asking bookshops, coffeeshops, churches, town halls, colleges, high schools, local civic associations, local business establishments, hotels, etc if they can leave a stack of their literature for “the faithful”. The reactions they get from ordinary people might help show them that their schtick is in fact about as unwelcome as a serial child molester at summer camp. The reaction is exactly the same as what they would get for trying to leave the NAMBLA newsletter at those same places. Coincidence? Hardly.
    Someone upthread suggested that these racists show their integrity by revealing their real names. Since these poor deluded citizens would be bombarded by “fan mail” (heh) it seems only fair to ask them to do a simpler version of the same and report the results back to the rest of the CFN’ers. The simpler version I had in mind is this: each of these racists, at the place where he works, should speak with all of his bosses sequentially, starting with the lowest-ranking on and working up from there, and explaining his beliefs in detail, with no part of this racist stuff being held back. The racists should include at least one person from HR as they go about this exercise.
    Ordinary people, who haven’t got beliefs that include discriminating against others merely on the basis of their skin color, would have no problem explaining their beliefs. I do exactly that in the workforce. In fact, the president of the company is fully aware of my idea of “green” and I’ve made fun of his SUV use quite a bit (he likes big trucks).
    Would any of the racists here care to do as I’ve suggested? C’mon, please demonstrate your alleged integrity by being open and honest about your beliefs with the people in your life. Prove to the world how much you really believe in this stuff. Report back here with the reactions you get.
    Then again, if you feel the need to “hide under a rock” because you’re the sort of creatures that can’t stand being out in the open, or who fear the bright light of truth & honesty shining down on you, then by all means feel free to stay in the closet and post Nazi-sounding “[insert ethnicities] are bad!” generalizations from behind your safe, anonymous screen names.
    The proper karmic treatment for you, which you may someday get, is to be on the receiving end of the type of hate which you seem to be all too willing to dish out (from total anonymity of course) upon the people of the ethnicities or nationalities or religions that you don’t like.
    Hmm. The phrase “It takes a village to take out the [racist] trash” would make a pretty catchy book title. Maybe Hillary is willing to have her ghostwriters take a whack at it?

  370. Nudge June 25, 2010 at 6:13 pm #

    Diogen wrote: “Can we talk about something other than races and ethnicities now? What’s the latest wort on the oil gusher in the gulf? Hmm, perhaps we can blame the jews for that :)”
    Uhh, you might want to ask Eleuthero about that one. I’m pretty sure he’s about to blow a gasket from the effort of trying not to blame it on black HS students.
    I would love to see more discussion here of energy- and PO-related things that are relevant to the theme of the blog and to the things that Mr Kunstler brings up in his weekly posts. However, it seems there’s some trash that just doesn’t want to go down the food disposal chute, so I may have to poke at it repeatedly with the heavy wooden spoon. Perhaps there’s some other forum where ilk like them are welcome. Or maybe an Ilks Lodge somewhere, who knows. This was once that kind of blog, but it’s potential to be energy- and PO-related and relevant to the theme of the blog is vastly impaired by the endless series of mumbo-jumbo incantations about reports regarding race and IQ, race and crime, yada yada yada. It’s not a race-discussion blog.
    Mr Kunstler hasn’t bothered to kick them out. Some may take this to mean that he approves of their presence. I assume it means they’re beneath his notice. Since Mr Kunstler hasn’t bothered to kick me out for cleaning up some smelly old trash that’s been stinking up the joint, we can safely assume that he either approves of this or is simply unaware of it. Of course, if the racists feel like they’re being discriminated against (kind of like the way /they/ would like to discriminate against others) then by all means they should appeal to Mr Kunstler for protection. I mean, the NAMBLA people also need police protection when they march in public, as do the skinhead racist neo nazi types. Huh, wonder why.
    With that being said .. Asoka, you mentioned above something about the people of the nordic region being competent at providing sustainable transportation solutions. Here is a case in point:
    Sweden’s gold medal winning eco-town
    We could do that if certain lard-asses could be extracted from their SUVs.

  371. Nudge June 25, 2010 at 6:15 pm #

    Oops, the link didn’t make it ..
    http://news.yourolivebranch.org/2010/06/24/sweden%E2%80%99s-gold-medal-winning-eco-town/

  372. Nudge June 25, 2010 at 6:27 pm #

    Wagelaborer wrote: “TreeGuy and Eluethero never take them into account when frothing about black genetic propensity for violence. And, of course, the great crimes of robbery and murder, as Asoka points out, are committed by white people.”
    Bingo. Extra-precise. Who invented Zyklon-B, designed the crematoria, forced the inmates into the gas chambers? White guys, of course, animated by racist beliefs. Who invented the atom bomb, mustard gas, napalm, DDT, aerosol defoliants? Intelligent white guys, of course, a class to which Tree & Euleuthero voluntarily assign themselves. Who were Madoff, Mozilla, the Enron boyz, and many others? Rich white guys, of course. Who just crashed the economy, from behind their Wall Street desks and with egos inflated by 7- or 8-figure salaries? Highly educated rich white guys, of course. How many millions are homeless or squatting now due to foreclosures and unemployment? How many folks’ retirement savings just vanished into thin air? (hint: it didn’t vanish, it came out on the Wall Street end as huge bonuses)
    Half of our nation’s children are on food stamps now! Thanks, rich white male Masters Of The Universe on Wall Street. Jeez.
    Maybe Tree and Eleuthero don’t see this stuff .. but lordy forbid, if some black person doesn’t get off the sidewalk for them, they’ll walk around all day long thinking they’ve just been disrespected and not given the proper treatment that great whites deserve.

  373. asia June 25, 2010 at 6:32 pm #

    The phrase “It takes a village to take out the [racist] trash” would make a pretty catchy book title.[ not IMO]
    Maybe Hillary is willing to have her ghostwriters take a whack at it?
    probably not, the clintons already have their 100 million $, maybe more, as they asked their ‘fans’ to pay HC campaign debts!
    and who posted about trilllions of skyscrapers?

  374. asia June 25, 2010 at 6:36 pm #

    well…… it keeps em outta the workforce
    its good for those that teach!
    back in the 70s i remember eleanor winegast head of counseling for brooklyn ny public schools…she was all for bilingual ed.
    that was 1970…
    by year 1990 nyc had to teach in 120 languages. theres a brilliant piece in ‘alien nation’ [brimelow] about nyc had no albanian speaking teachers so he said mockingly, maybe theyll have em immigrate.

  375. asia June 25, 2010 at 6:40 pm #

    o nudge….
    ‘Half of our nation’s children are on food stamps now! Thanks, rich white male Masters Of The Universe on Wall Street. Jeez.’
    half are kids are illegitamate
    are half US kids latino
    blacks have abortions at 2 or 3x the rate of whites
    80% ? of blacks carried to term have unwed moms.
    duh

  376. asia June 25, 2010 at 6:46 pm #

    After all, a woman can love all children, but she can only really mother her own
    ‘ takes a village to raise a socialist child’
    the nazis and ussr did what they could to have children turn their parents in……………

  377. asoka June 25, 2010 at 6:49 pm #

    PLANETARY MESSAGE FROM THE HATHORS
    Most of our commentary on the BP/Gulf of Mexico/Financial Crash has been from earth beings.
    I don’t know JHK’s policy on posting that do not originate from the Planet Earth, but I thought it might be interesting to share a perspective from extraterrestrials, beings who do not live on Earth. They claim to want to help us through this Long Emergency crisis and some of the things they say are not that different from CFN commentary.

    You are entering a very difficult passage in this phase of the Chaotic Node. Danger to planetary life has been created through human arrogance, greed and stupidity. We are speaking here of the disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. You have not been told the entire truth about the situation by your media or by your government. The situation is dire and there are multiple possible timelines that intersect this event.

    We wish to discuss some of these, but then shift our attention to you, the individual human. These timeline possibilities we are discussing are malleable, changeable. They are not written in stone, as the saying goes. There are so many factors involved in the ecological disaster unfolding in the Gulf; it is difficult to predict the actual outcome, as it will appear in your three-dimensional reality. And as we have said before, things can radically change even in the eleventh hour.

    The oil and gas reserves that have been punctured are vast, and if it is not contained it will unfold into several possibilities.

    One of these extreme possibilities is the extinction of much (if not all) sea life in the Gulf region and a transporting of the contaminants into the Atlantic Ocean through the Gulf Stream to the coast of Europe, where a high level of toxicity will negatively affect ocean life in these regions of the Atlantic. If the puncture is not sealed, pollution of the entire Atlantic Ocean is a distinct possibility, and eventually the rest of the world’s oceans will be compromised. The further away from the Gulf region, the less toxicity there will be. But one distinct possibility is an eventual contamination of the entire Earth’s oceans.

    In a worsening scenario, the methane gas, the natural gases in this field, could erupt and break through the ocean floor creating a tsunami of immense destructive capability as well as the release of poisonous gases into the region.

    Another worse case scenario would unfold if the rift in the ocean floor were large enough to create a tectonic shift that rises up from the Gulf into the Mississippi and into the Great Lakes. This would be a disastrous scenario far beyond imagination.

    /snip/ (these interplanetary beings are wordy!)

    In our opinion there is no place on Earth that will not be affected by the planetary changes, both natural and manmade. Some areas of the world will be less intensely affected, but all will be radically altered. Life on your planet is an interconnected web.

    We advise those who are currently living in the Gulf region from twenty miles inland to the coastline to be mentally, emotionally, and spiritually prepared. This is a time for honed intuition and instinct. If you feel an intuition to leave the area, this will be an intelligence test. Who will pass and who will fail is simply the impersonal force of evolution at hand.

    If the Gulf incident continues without mitigation, then this will be a time of immense challenges for the entire planet. And so even if you are not living near the Gulf, this is a time for intuition and instinct. Our advice is to hone these abilities within you and to act on the revelations that come to you. Each of you will be in the place, the circumstances and the timing based upon your level of evolution and what you came to Earth to experience.

    However bleak a situation may appear to you, we wish to convey clearly this message: you are the co-creator of your reality. Move upward in consciousness, even if those around you move downward. If the situation deteriorates it will be a difficult time, in that, mass hysteria will increase, and you will have to find the center path, the narrow passage that leads upward. In the past we have given suggestions on how to bootstrap your consciousness. We won’t go into those here. You may find them in the Archives.

    Now is the time to step into your spiritual authority if you have not already done so. A dividing line is being drawn by evolution. The planet is responding to human greed, arrogance and stupidity. Gaia will survive this. It is not clear if the bulk of humanity will.

    But even in the midst of this moving darkness there are exquisite opportunities to move upward in consciousness, both as individuals and as culturally creative/cooperative human communities.

    You can also expect a continual deterioration of your financial system. The seeming recovery was a result of propping up a house of cards, and that house is beginning to shake again.

    Our suggestion is to not be frightened by these changes that are upon you, but recognize them as breaks in the walls of a prison that have been erected around you. Step through the cracks into your freedom. You are creator gods and goddesses. You hold an immense power in your hands, but you have been sleeping and unaware of the immensity that you possess. Perhaps with this crisis in the Gulf, more of humanity will awaken and demand an end to the old ways that threaten all life.

    The Hathors June 23, 2010

  378. Nudge June 25, 2010 at 6:50 pm #

    And now for a break from cleaning up the smelly old [racist] trash ..
    Is anyone else here making some change, however small, to reduce the use of fossil fuel? There are some things I’ve worked on in the past (old regulars will remember them: the fridge with insulation panels added, switching to a car that uses less gasoline, keeping electricity use limited, living close to work) but the BP oil spill is motivating me to do more.
    Work is less than 3 miles away, so I’ve sent away for a proper commuting bicycle (a Batavus; it’s a famous Dutch brand) and am planning to ride to work as soon as I can get in proper shape. The European commuter bicycles are like nothing sold here. They are heavyweight, sturdy, practical bikes meant to be left outdoors all year round and used as such. You can pile 60 lbs of groceries onto them and they won’t break. They have fenders and chaincases and internal brakes and integral frame locks.
    There’s a lady out in Chicago who works a professional city job and who rides a bicycle to work all year ’round .. she was mentioned recently in a Chicago Sun Times article.
    Oops, gotta dip back into taking out the trash:
    Asia wrote: “half are kids are illegitamate”
    Umm, so you’re saying that because the kids’ parents didn’t do the marriage paperwork before the kids were born (and possibly before the kids were even conceived) they should be forced to go hungry while our country gives billions of dollars to large corporate interests? Is that what you’re saying, asia?
    Racist trash is as racist trash does. Hating other people who you don’t even know, simply on the basis of their gender or income level or lineage, is the dumbest and most primitive sort of hate there is. It has no business in civil society. As I said before, if you feel so strongly about these things, start speaking in public (especially at work and at school) the same bullshit you say here. Go ahead, try it .. and let us know how it works out, k?

  379. Nudge June 25, 2010 at 7:02 pm #

    Asia, Tree, Eleuthero and any other racists who may be here ~ seriously, is there any reason why you cannot say to the people you meet in public, at work, at school, at church, etc the very same things that you’re willing to say in some internet forum from behind your anonymous username?
    If you have any integrity, please demonstrate it in one of these two ways:
    * Be totally out about it with your neighbors, coworkers, any educators you may know, the people at church if you go to church, the people you golf (or whatever with), with no stone left unturned. Then report back here to see how well-received your racist beliefs were.
    * Shut your farking pie-hole about hating other people just because their lineage, income level, religion, etc happens to be different from yours. Say nothing here that you wouldn’t be willing to say face-to-face with everyone who you might encounter in real life. I don’t care what you believe behind the privacy of your eyelids, but do not give vent here to anything you won’t or can’t say to face-to-face with anyone and everyone.
    Can you racists do this? Hmm? Any takers?

  380. Nudge June 25, 2010 at 7:07 pm #

    Sorry, it was the Chicago Sun Times .. and here is the link to that article:
    “Positive spin on wheel deal”
    http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/mindbody/2368334,FIT-News-bike09.article
    She runs a blog too.

  381. asoka June 25, 2010 at 7:21 pm #

    Nudge, thanks for nudging us back on topic. In response to the mismanaged contraction I have changed to LED lighting (7 watts instead of 100 watts, 520 lumens, 50,000 hours of life).
    But the biggest day to day change has been become vegetarian, mostly vegan, (as well as some days of fasting from food for 24 hours) as a way of reducing fossil fuel use.
    More that 1/3 of all fossil fuels produced in the United States go towards animal agriculture.
    According to a study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the production of one calorie of animal protein requires more than ten times the fossil fuel input as a calorie of plant protein. (This means that ten times the amount of carbon dioxide is emitted as well.)
    Where does all the fossil fuel waste occur in a meat-eating diet?
    Each animal that is slaughtered for food must be fed with grains, soy and other crops. The production of these crops requires energy consumption.
    This feed must then be harvested, transported to feedlots. From the feedlots, animals are then transported to a slaughterhouse, the carcasses are often trucked (in refrigerated trucks – another energy consumer) to yet another processing plant before the meat is ready to be transported to a grocery store.
    Next time you’re driving the interstate, take a look at all the trucks around you and think about all the emissions and fuel consumption each one of those trucks is using to transport materials from one location to another. Many of these trucks are transporting food for animals, or the animals themselves.
    A report in the New Scientist estimated that driving a hybrid car rather than an average vehicle would conserve a little over one ton of carbon dioxide per year. A vegan diet, however, consumes one and a half tons less than the average American diet. Adopting a vegan diet actually does more to reduce emissions than driving a hybrid car!
    And you actually improve your health, and save money on both health care and food by changing to a vegan diet, or by intermittent fasting. It is a win-win fossil-fuel-saving decision because it benefits you and the Planet.

  382. San Jose Mom 51 June 25, 2010 at 7:59 pm #

    Since the oil spill, my husband is taking the bus to work.

  383. treebeardsuncle June 25, 2010 at 8:08 pm #

    HI, Nudge, my name is Geoffrey Harris and I live in Sacramento, Ca. I have discussed demographic issues at the roller skating rink where I skate and even some of the staff agrees with my sentiments and will bring it up at the 4th of July barbeque here in my neighborhood. I plan on saying in a couple generations people won’t be celebrating 4th of July here but Cinco de Mayo and see how they respond. I have not much raised theses issues at schools because a lot of folks at school are very much opposed to any communication. One is often not allowed to move and/or speak at schools. I also have not brought it up at work directly because the purpose of most “work” outfits is to pass money up to the executives, other administrators, and share-holders and they also want not to hear from employees just the way school administrators want not to hear from anyone.
    Earlier, you mentioned that the concerns of us racists were those of a small minority and had very little to do with those of people in general.
    This article from the mainstream media, msnbcnews, might irk you then.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37930466/ns/us_news-immigration_a_nation_divided/
    Legislators aim to copy Ariz. immigration law
    Politicians in as many as 18 states seek to push similar measures
    updated 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
    BOISE, Idaho – Arizona’s sweeping new immigration law doesn’t take effect until next month, but lawmakers in nearly 20 other states are already clamoring to follow in its footsteps.
    Gubernatorial candidates in Florida and Minnesota are singing the law’s praises, as are some lawmakers in other states far from the Mexico border such as Idaho and Nebraska. But states also are watching legal challenges to the new law, and whether boycotts over it will harm Arizona’s economy.
    “In South Carolina, state law enforcement officials say Mexican drug gangs are moving north from Atlanta — a problem expected to intensify given that budget cuts have left fewer resources to go toe-to-toe with armed criminal groups.”
    ****
    If you comb through the media these days, you will find that folks are not complaining that much about Chinese, Japanese, Korean or even Vietnamese immigrants a great deal — with the exception of the Hmong, but you will find overt references to quite a few folks having real problems with the Mexican invasion. Really these people are not Hispanic. They are mestizos, with little Spanish blood, being over 80% indian in their background. Guatamalens and other Central Americans basically behave just as the Mexicans do.

  384. Nudge June 25, 2010 at 8:36 pm #

    Tree wrote: “I have not much raised theses issues at schools because .. ” “I also have not brought it up at work directly because ..”
    Thank you!
    If your beliefs were as mainstream, as acceptable, and as relevant as you pretend they are, then discussing them /anywhere/, and with /anyone/, would not be a problem.
    For example, if you were in a room with 20 members from the local La Raza crew, would you say out loud what you posted above? “Guatamalens and other Central Americans basically behave just as the Mexicans do.”
    I’d happily discuss peak oil with the La Raza people, or anyone else who’ll talk peaceably with me.
    The glue that keeps society together is this thing called civilization, which on its most basic levels means people coexisting civilly even if they do not know each other, will not know each other, might or might not want to be friends / neighbors / relatives, etc. The result of what you racists stir up (see below) is completely inimical to the concept of “civilization”. In effect, you are trying to make things worse than better. Deliberately, too. Do you think friction/anger/hate between different groups makes things better, or worse? Hmm?
    When I think of racists, I think of people like these ones. All of the racist incidents it’s been my misfortune to witness have been white males victimizing non-white people. Like these:
    Some “nice white boys” who burned down a church in Massachusetts because they were upset that Obama had won the election 8 hours earlier:
    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/06/22/2d_man_expected_to_admit_springfield_church_arson/
    Six days after a coconspirator pleaded guilty to similar charges, a Springfield man is expected to admit in federal court today that he helped torch a predominantly black church in November 2008 in what authorities described as a hate crime prompted by Barack Obama’s election hours earlier.
    /end quote
    Here’s another one, some “upstanding citizen” (also white) who rammed another vehicle (with a child passenger inside) because that vehicle had an Obama sticker on it:
    http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=12208009
    NASHVILLE, Tenn. – A Nashville man claims he and his 10-year-old daughter were the victims of road rage Thursday afternoon all because of a political bumper sticker on his car.
    Mark Duren told News 2 the incident happened around 4:30 p.m. while he was driving on Blair Boulevard, not far from Belmont University.
    He said Harry Weisiger gave him the bird and rammed into his vehicle, after noticing an Oba