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In that long ago yesteryear of 1979, before blogging, tweeting, twerking, hacking, posting, ghosting, doxing, and all the other Internet-enabled compulsions of the present day, a gang of inflamed young men, said to be students, invaded the US embassy compound in Teheran and took fifty-two American embassy personnel hostage — crossing an age-old line of geopolitical conduct that kicked off the epic conflict between global Islam and a USA-led West, still on-going as you read.

I followed the Iran Hostage Crisis avidly… the gibbering mullahs, the blindfolded captives, the rotating cast of double-talking prime ministers who lectured Jimmy Carter on the Nightly News, the rescue attempt fiasco that killed eight American soldiers out in the Persian desert. Oddly, what I remember most after all these years was the fact that the hostages ran out of dental floss and had to swap around between them the same recycled last strand for weeks on end — a ticket to periodontal hell, if ever there was one.

And then, as if by magic, Iran released the hostages on Ronald Reagan’s inauguration day and our splendiferous “morning in America” commenced. What really began that day, of course, was the asset-stripping of this land and its people, leading to the political disorders of the moment. Forty years later it’s hard to say which nation is a bigger pain-in-the-ass on the world stage, Iran or the USA. But the net effect of all that mutual antagonism is a vast region from North Africa to Central Asia of failed states, ruined cities, and dead bodies.

I’m rather skeptical that President Trump will manage to get a new-and-improved “deal” with Iran after tearing up the old one put together by Mr. Obama, which may have not been of much value anyway. I don’t believe that anything in it would have really deterred Iranian technicians from developing a serviceable nuclear weapon. It’s just not that hard to do anymore, given the number of physicists trained all over the world since 1945.

Until recently, the Obama agreement gave the appearance of some cover in the long-running feud, an impression, at least, that the two sides could talk to each other, which has now been erased. What’s changed is a recognition that the agreement did nothing to stop Iran’s intervention in three of the current hot-spots of the region: Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen, where various contingents of Iranian-sponsored Hezbollah, Houthis, and even Iranian military regulars have carried the Shia battle flag in the ancient struggle to displace their Sunni adversaries, sponsored by Iran’s arch-enemy, Saudi Arabia — leaving wreckage everywhere. And, of course, let’s remember the Sunni factions include the savage ISIS and al-Qaeda gangs.

Which points to the elephant in the room with the 900-pound gorilla on its back: the fact that underlying all this terrible destructive action in that part of the world is a religious disagreement. (While, of course, underlying even that is a long emergency of human population overshoot and a desperate struggle for dwindling resources of all kinds.) It has surely been the dream of that aggressive American faction known as the Neocons, to up-end the entrenched mullahs who run Iran. The theory, I think, is that religious maniacs are always and everywhere more dangerous than secular maniacs and, if we could only get rid of these apocalyptic whack-jobs, a country like Iran might be made a “normal” nation again. The Neocons also assume that a majority of Iran’s younger generations are good-and-goddam sick of the ruling mullahs, and eager for their own regime change. And so now the Trumpsters, apparently, are determined to squeeze Iran until something over there gives.

Is it too obvious to say that our previous efforts at re-engineering the various governments of the region have all ended in failed states? “Normality” may just be a mirage in the desert these days. What happened in the Islamic oil states was an historic anomaly, short-lived and catastrophic. What we’re witnessing is the slow-motion collapse of civilization at the margins. A corner of the world that was once emptier and quieter is on its way to being empty and quiet again, but not without a tragic convulsion of violence on the journey there. What’s happening on the margins these days will shortly move toward the center.


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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

655 Responses to “Lousy Deals and Turning Wheels” Subscribe

  1. draupnir May 14, 2018 at 9:44 am #

    “ Janos Skorenzy: May 12, 2018 at 4:12 pm #
    The Vatican worked against the Nazis and has been sucking up to the Jews for a very, very long time. But it’s still not enough the Jew! As the Alien said in Independence Day when asked, What we can do for you?”, “Die”.
    Draupnir:May 13, 2018 at 1:55 pm #
    Actually, I’ve read your posts now, and I must say that a guest should have better manners than to spout such despicable views in our host’s own house. Really, how dare you, sir? I’m sure that there are forums where you could share such vileness with other under-a-rock dwellers. The sooner Mr. Kunstler bans you the better.
    Janos Skorenzy: May 13, 2018 at 3:59 pm #
    Shame on you for your weakness and hatred. So much for the two spheres and keeping to them, eh? But even though you butt in, you do so keeping to the party line of Jews always right no matter how vicious, and their critics always wrong. So very flawed. So very feminine.
    If we took over, we’d have you parroting our party line in six months, issuing outraged denials if anyone reminded you of your previous “beliefs”.
    Draupnir: May 13, 2018 at 5:39 pm #
    That shit doesn’t work with me, honey. I saw what you did with GreenAlba, and I’m not foolish enough to fall into that trap. I’m not weak and I can’t really care enough about you to get up a decent hatred. I’m not particularly amenable to being bullied and you can’t hurt my feelings. These forums are set up specifically for butting in so if you don’t like it take your butt hurt to someone who cares.
    Janos Skorenzy: May 13, 2018 at 6:56 pm #
    Ha. You insult me and hope I get banned and now you accuse me of bullying you because I respond. The horror of the feminine mind on full display.
    Draupnir: May 13, 2018 at 7:16 pm #
    You attack me rather than respond to my comment about your deplorable and inexcusable manners. I have no intention of debating anything else with you until I have seen you defend the indefensible or slink off with your tail between your legs. I will not be diverted. Don’t mistake me for GreenAlba. She’s a nice lady. I am not. I’ll be looking for you on the field tomorrow.
    Janos Skorenzy: May 13, 2018 at 8:00 pm #
    Good night, Irene.
    Draupnir: May 13, 2018 at 8:39 pm
    Now who’s weak?”
    So you slink off with your tail between your legs. I’m not finished with this Skorenzy. I’m calling you out, you motherless coward, so you just goose step right on over here and explain yourself. Go ahead. Defend the indefensible and tell us all what kind of cretinous, inbred font you sprang from where it is acceptable for a guest to insult and revile his host in his own house. Then you apologize to him for your execrable behavior, and if I ever catch a whiff of that shit from you again on this board I’ll pursue you though the comments section using the paste button so that everybody here can see how you fold like a cheap suit. Checkmate in 3 moves. You also owe me an apology for impugning my character by suggesting I’d be parroting your party line 6 months after you people took over, and I’ll have that from you right now. No, you’ll find me in the resistance, but because I’m just a little woman, I’ll leave you big swinging dick Nazis for the men folk to take care of. I’ll be hunting in my own sphere. People are judged on their merits, not an accident of birth. I’ve got my big girl panties on so you just give me your best shot. I’m a veteran of this shit.

    • draupnir May 14, 2018 at 9:46 am #

      Dear Mr. Kunstler:
      Please forgive me if I have hijacked your board.

      • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 10:07 am #

        Janos snares another victim in his tarpit of odium. News flash: depraved fascist is depraved — film at 11. Trying to take him on just fuels him.

        JHK banned Janos at least once before, but allowed him to come back because it’s his board and he can do what he wants. JHK also respects freedom of speech, and likely understands that you can’t fix people, so you might as well let them vent since silencing them acts as another kind of fuel. The one topic Janos knows is untouchable is denial of the Holocaust, yet he edges as close to that as he dares as often as he can, because he just can’t help himself.

        My advice: don’t get any on ya. All that energy could be better expended on something else.

        • James Howard Kunstler May 14, 2018 at 10:15 am #

          Yes, I have allowed Janos to remain in the comments section because I think it’s better to let him air his unappetizing views than to suppress them. But he has been unusually obnoxious and aggressive lately — so this is a warning to you Janos: dial it down, quit the personal feuds, stick to your own ideas and arguments, or i will kick you off — JHK

          • uslabor May 14, 2018 at 11:25 am #

            So much for US and Islamic Iranian misbehavior……….how about Jewish Israeli hijinks?

          • SomeoneInAsia May 14, 2018 at 12:09 pm #

            I second that!

        • draupnir May 14, 2018 at 10:17 am #

          I understand all of that, but it did my heart good to to get the last word in and to see him fold like a cheap suit. I do understand that such peoples opinions are unassailable, but you can attack them on other fronts. You can embarrass them, you can expose them to ridicule.

          • DrTomSchmidt May 14, 2018 at 10:26 am #

            xkcd.com/386/

          • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 10:30 am #

            I’ve done so too, in the past — he certainly has it coming. But it doesn’t take much of that to completely swamp the signal-to-noise ratio of any discussion, so I try to do it in a way that doesn’t degenerate into a yelling match. (NB, that’s not the same as trying to be constructive with the fellow — he’s just not promising construction material.)

          • draupnir May 14, 2018 at 1:12 pm #

            Forgive me. I’m a little bit on the spectrum and can be a bit oblivious to things like social cues and proper behavior, especially if I’m riled up. I can see I’ve been presumptuous.

          • Tate May 14, 2018 at 1:35 pm #

            I do understand that such peoples opinions are unassailable — draupnir

            Oh, and yours are not, lol.

            You know which side I’m on. molon labe.

          • chuckyzfr1 May 27, 2018 at 9:50 pm #

            How surprising is it that you see ugly, racist, xenophobic language from a guy who uses as his online moniker a word jumble of the name of an infamous Nazi? Just sayn.

        • JustSaying May 15, 2018 at 8:00 am #

          Janos just wants attention. I used to find him annoying but now I think he is amusing. He probably lives alone and has no friends. Maybe he should get a job teaching inner-city kids how to read.

      • Paulo May 14, 2018 at 10:54 am #

        No use wasting your energy. I admire your willingness to shout out against his ignorance, but you might as well talk to the wall.

        It is up to JHK to police his comment section, and why he chooses to let some things slide is beyond the excuse of ‘spirited discussion’, imho. (I’m sure he has his reasons). Having said this, the internet is rife with tribal tone. I know of only 2 blogs that have fairly civil discourse, Wolfstreet and Resilience. They simply have zero tolerance for it.

        I just use the scroll button and skip to other comments. I come here due to “The Long Emergency”. While it is unfolding differently than what JHK wrote so long ago, it is still happening, nevertheless. The Book changed our lives as we downsized and moved rural losing all debt along the way. We have a wonderful life, and for that I thank JHK very much.

        regards

        • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 1:57 pm #

          Read the last chapter again. Mr Kunstler says, Black misbehavior will not be tolerated in the Long Emergency. To that end, a muscular prefect (or whatever such a person is called) wrestled dancing Blacks off the graduation stage as they were disrupting the event. Blacks are outraged of course. They want to disrupt out traditions. That’s Their Tradition you see. Will we let them? Or will we defend the remnants among the ruins in the dying light?

          • woe May 14, 2018 at 4:28 pm #

            Your tradition is to destabilize anything that is not white and, then lecture us on what we should do to get back your approval. Minorities need to quit seeking your approval, and go their own way. You mutha’s are TRILLIONS in debt. You can’t lecture anybody about how to behave. We could solve the behavior problem by putting an adult black male back into our homes, but then you would have competition, and you can’t have that. Those black grads was celebrating their accomplishments, oh I forgot, they were doing it while black. Man, I think if you could, you would lock up your own shadow. “I’m being stalked by someone black yea he’s low crawling on the ground behind me!!” How do you know what black traditions are? Next time pick your own fucking cotton!

          • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 6:20 pm #

            Put Black Men in our homes? A lot of that is going on, and when the White women survive, she (and her poor parents) are usually left holding the brown baby. Beyond that, I agree with you completely! Segregation today. Segregation tomorrow. Segregation forever.

            amren.com/commentary/2018/05/blacks-want-segregated-graduations/

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 9:34 am #

            woe

            “You mutha’s are TRILLIONS in debt. You can’t lecture anybody about how to behave. ”

            You’ve got a point there. Talking about how to behave, it’s interesting that some kinds of crime are always more heartily condemned than others.

            Hence, if someone, especially if they’re black, whacks you and steals your wallet, that causes far more consternation than Monsanto causing the suicides of thousands of Indian farmers and leaving their families destitute, because of its nefarious seed patenting practices, which is just a polite white-collar and entirely legal crime committed by men in suits with nice, middle-class manners. And power.

            It’s less immediate than the guy who whacks you in the street and they’re doing it to poor brown people instead of you. According to a number of people on this site, your own tribe should matter more. Not what I heard when I went to church in my younger days, but the message seems to have changed in the intervening period. I suppose we could call these new tribal Christians ‘progressives’.

            Anyway, one thing is certain. The black guy who steals your wallet is far more likely to do time than the guy from the patenting division at Monsanto.

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 9:36 am #

            And yes, I do know that ‘legal crime’ is an oxymoron, technically speaking. But I’ll stick with it. It used to be legal to send small children up chimneys too.

          • Tate May 15, 2018 at 3:22 pm #

            According to a number of people on this site, your own tribe should matter more. Not what I heard when I went to church in my younger days, but the message seems to have changed in the intervening period.

            It didn’t need to be heard back then. Everyone assumed it as plain common sense. But now it has to be debated because the fruitcakes have taken over and insist it’s the way it’s always been.

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 5:10 pm #

            “Everyone assumed it as plain common sense. ”

            They didn’t, though, Tate. They explicitly said and believed the opposite and taught it from the pulpit.

          • Tate May 16, 2018 at 10:35 am #

            No wonder you went AWOL. No esprit de corps.

          • GreenAlba May 16, 2018 at 11:41 am #

            The ‘esprit’ they were supposed to concentrating on was ‘le saint esprit’, bodies (corps) being ephemeral.

    • FallenHero May 14, 2018 at 11:25 am #

      draupnir,

      Rushing to post some conversation you had with janos as the first post (clearly prepared before hand) makes you come off incredibly pathetic and childish. I am mostly reminded of some elementary schooler who rushes to a teacher with some flimsy evidence of the schoolyard bully with the only result being the presenter (you) look like a loser no matter what is being claimed.

      Btw you can have the ‘last word’ with me too, unlike apparently you it doesnt matter if I win internet arguments.

    • sophia May 14, 2018 at 3:18 pm #

      Draupnir,

      I know I’m late to this party, but your above post consists of nothing but name calling.
      I do get having a modicum of respect for our host, but really, this is a no holds barred discussion and if we remain polite after years together, it would never get down to brass tacks, would it?

      Janos,

      I was going to say that I am a bit annoyed at you for calling her feminine, in the pejorative sense of course, but upon further reflection, I have come to the conclusion that our culture at this time has become so unbalanced toward favoring the feminine that actual women have quite often lost all ability at insight. They have become blind to the masculine except when it annoys them by not being feminine enough.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 6:30 pm #

        Thanks Sophia. She herself made the same or similar point about women earlier. It seems to be in the very air. One Jungian called in an eruption of the animus or the male side of feminine. Meanwhile, instead of being allow to come to a graceful accommodation with his feminine side (anima) after he has developed his basic masculine self, boys are being encouraged to develop the feminine before – and that means instead of I’m afraid. Many will thus remain developmentally stunted unless and until they could cut thru such false and premature growth to find their real selves. Robert Bly has written about this. I don’t know who if anyone is writing about this for girls from the same kind of psychological angle. Any idea?

        • sophia May 14, 2018 at 11:17 pm #

          I’m not sure I fully get your question, but I think for girls now the problem is a denial of the feminine nature itself, trying to eradicate it as a reality or anything to be revered, while at the same time paradoxically vilifying the masculine.

          This is why feminism has always irritated me. I see in it an underbelly of hatred of the feminine. Because the assumption is always that the masculine is what is to be desired. The attempts are to give girls the chance to be out in the world as men.

          Frankly, I don’t completely disagree with that as my personal stance is that people should be free to do as they want. Traditional societies are too reluctant to allow the outliers to express themselves.

          It is quite difficult to compare men and women. Men are certainly the achievers in this world and have done so many amazing things. The outliers among women actually can and do make their mark in this world, but the idiotic pretense (as Google company does) that the numbers will approach 50-50 is a denial of gender differences, which are quite real.

          What irks me is the anger over it. It means the feminists really do think women are inferior. So the solution is to pretend. Fat lot of good that does except leave everyone confused. It won’t change reality.

          So I guess we now have a case where men are afraid to be men and aren’t mentored to become such, and the women have little or no interest in a femininity that they are taught doesn’t even exist, which means they do not know themselves nor have the tools with which to deepen their personalities.

          Ah, well, I suppose that is an exaggeration. They go on being women but blindly, without seeing. The thing is, men have society and women sort of don’t. This bothers me.

          I do get frustrated at the endless assumption that women just need a level playing field and they will achieve as men do. Of course, there is SOME truth to that, and like I said, men in the past did not allow the outliers to be whatever they needed to be.

          I think of all the wealthy women of leisure and few children – like maybe in harems. Why didn’t they invent algebra and calculus? Did they invent writing? Why didn’t these women of leisure leave a written millenia-long conversation about their philosophy, as men have done? Are we to believe that men would have stopped them? I think that is absurd.

          When I try to figure out how women are equal but different, I come up a little bit blank.

  2. thenuttyneutron May 14, 2018 at 9:45 am #

    We will have to wait and see what Trump does with Iran. I am 100% against any war with them. If the politicians lead us to war, they had better send their kids first or there will be political hell to pay here in America.

    • BC_EE May 14, 2018 at 9:50 am #

      A cynical but supportive reply. Yes, they will send their children first, right to Las Vegas to command a joy-stick while peering through a drone monitor. That’s about the size of it.

    • noel bodie May 14, 2018 at 10:23 am #

      I’m thinking this is payback for big donations from Sheldon Adelson. It is always about what the Libertarian donors want. It is well known Bebe and Sheldon are thick and our m e policy is hostage to a casino magnate’s personal obsessions.

      • SpeedyBB May 14, 2018 at 3:39 pm #

        Bebe Rebozo? He still in play? Talk about longevity…

    • davidveale May 14, 2018 at 12:46 pm #

      Couldn’t agree more. I’d love to see a constitutional amendment requiring that all blood-relatives of anyone in the legislative or executive branch of federal government be given top priority for tip-of-the-spear draft recruitment in the event of even the slightest military action. No “Texas Air National Guard” duty allowed (ala GW Bush).

      Putting some real skin in the game for those making the decisions would do wonders for our war-mongering fantasies as well as our federal budget deficit, and save a whole lot of lives in the process.

  3. PeteAtomic May 14, 2018 at 9:46 am #

    The Washington Post put out an interesting set of matrices that reminded me of your great quote (or thought) there Jim, that ‘creating places nobody wants to live is big trouble for America’ (paraphrasing)

    news.gallup.com/poll/226517/record-states-decline-2017.aspx

    this mirrors that thought, as 2017 was the first time for many years that the perception (important point there) is a decline or entropy is real.

    • bhnj13 May 14, 2018 at 10:31 am #

      Interesting, especially since the sense of decline is pretty widespread. Sprawls not so bad when its brand-spanking new but it ages terribly and very quickly. Theres more to this sense of decline than the local built environment or housing arrangement but its definitely a factor.

      Im in an area of NJ thats been largely built out for almost 100 years (my towns nickname is “The Railroad Town” due to confluence of commuter and freight lines in the Raritan Valley). For me and mine the decline is in cost of living, taxes, predatory government at all levels (some local cops will give you a ticket for no registration even if the car is parked overnight in your driveway!) and the ensuing flight of retired people to cheaper areas of the country. I grew up with 4 grandparents and was largely raised by them as a kid but its not going to happen for my kids.
      It’s hard to have a sense of community when that’s the norm…

      • islander800 May 14, 2018 at 12:34 pm #

        Try visiting a country in Europe, like France, then return to North America for a shock. It seems like everything there, including new home construction, is built for permanence. Community appears to be an important consideration. When you get back home, everything looks like disorganized shoddy crap in comparison like we don’t give a shit (I love James’ terms “cartoon architecture” and “parking lagoons” – they sum it up beautifully). The only buildings here that appear to be designed for more than ten years are old churches, cathedrals, and public buildings constructed prior to sixty years ago, when we seemed to take some pride in our communities and public spaces. Today, public spaces are nothing more than another opportunity to privatize. No wonder communities are falling apart.

        (Now I await Janos’ snarky comment about all the evil Muslims just itching to kill you in France…)

        • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:03 pm #

          Somebody was just stabbed to death a couple of days ago. Did you not hear? Am I the only one who predicts France will be an Islamic State long before 2100? Oh sir, I think not. If trends continue, it’s inevitable. It give me no pleasure if that’s what you think. Popping liberal pink balloons does though. It’s natural to enjoy what one does. The wolf doesn’t hate the deer, he loves the deer like we love ice cream.

          • PeteAtomic May 14, 2018 at 7:42 pm #

            I don’t think it will be an Islamic state, however it may not stay united.

            Poland may end up being the bulwark for western civ. in Europe.

  4. pequiste May 14, 2018 at 9:56 am #

    ” Forty years later it’s hard to say which nation is a bigger pain-in-the-ass on the world stage, Iran or the USA. But the net effect of all that mutual antagonism is a vast region from North Africa to Central Asia of failed states, ruined cities, and dead bodies.” JHK

    Nice summation right there, although “pain-in-the-ass” needs to be replaced by something a wee stronger. Might I suggest murderous megalomaniacal hegemon (one global and one local)?

    The Evil Fuckers in both camps still call it Progress.

    • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 10:05 am #

      I was not aware that Iran had created failed states. Two pains in the ass perhaps but it seems only one is full o shit since the other creates a failed state and does not suffer from the same constipation.

      • James Howard Kunstler May 14, 2018 at 10:18 am #

        Re; Iran and failed states. It’s been trying like hell in Lebanon for many years. And it certainly succeeded in Yemen. Syria so far is close but no cigar… yet — JHK

        • DrTomSchmidt May 14, 2018 at 10:22 am #

          Lebanon WAS a failed state in the truest sense of the word: unable to protect its populace from Israeli invasion and bombing. Hezbollah, backed by Iran, put an end to that in 2006. Hezbollah just won an election there and moved into the government. A FAR cry from US efforts, which have left chaos in Iraq, Libya, and nearly Syria.

          And giving Iran credit for the mess in Yemen is beneath your ability as an analyst, JHK.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:06 pm #

            Well said. They are reknowned for their material aid to the poor and starving. A model for any would be nationalist group. Golden Dawn in Greece does much of this as well, though lacking the funds of Hezbollah.

      • pequiste May 14, 2018 at 10:24 am #

        See Lebanon, Yemen, Bosnia, and Kurdistan for starters concerning Iranian geopolitical and (light) military (mis)adventures. And don’t forget they just love Israel too (for the record the nomenclature used by the Islamic Republic for the Jewish State is the “Enemy Entity.”)

        Don’t take it from me Dog, but how about everyone’s favourite Liberal American newspaper of record – The New York Times:

        nytimes.com/1995/12/10/weekinreview/the-world-what-s-Iran-doing-in-Bosnia-anyway.html

        The U.S.A.’s historical record of post-WWII worldwide lousy deals and turning wheels (murder and mayhem) needs no recapitulation here.

  5. Dumbedup May 14, 2018 at 9:58 am #

    While the Sunni-Shiite split began as strictly religious it is now about money, power and influence. (As are most human conflicts) The conflict is fueled by the western demand for oil. It was decided decades ago that conflict is the best way to keep the oil flowing. It allows us to keep our military perpetually ready in NAME to protect the flow of oil and dollars.

    When that changes it will all change.

  6. robert magill May 14, 2018 at 9:59 am #

    I think Trump is lusting after the 120+billion Jimmy Carter seized from Iran that has been at interest for all those years somewhere in this great land. It has long been in contention and the pot grows daily. They could use the money; we don’t have it and would have to borrow from China or somebody. So, new treaty; no money back. Deal?

  7. Bro Jobe May 14, 2018 at 10:00 am #

    Reagan began our era of magical thinking. Compared to what we have now, however, I’d wish the Gipper back. He was a decent human being and not a sociopath. And for all his bluster, he never got us into a major war.

    I’m not so sure this time it will end so nicely: crummy unpopular war, bankrupt America, possible cyber-attack to send us quickly into chaos.

    Something is going to give. Our system is way too fragile.

    • DrTomSchmidt May 14, 2018 at 10:19 am #

      Carter and Reagan strike me as the two most decent (along with Ford) presidents on my lifetime. W was the worst; Medicare Part D forbidding the govt from negotiating prices on drugs MIGHT wind up costing more than W’s Iraq and Afghan adventures. We could use a man like Reagan or Carter again.

      • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 10:44 am #

        And the torture, let’s not forget that. Ronald Reagan championed the UN’s Convention on Torture and put the U.S.’s signature to it. If he were to come back and see how far the U.S. has fallen such a short time later, he’d have a thing or two to say. Not least to W’s successor, who declared it was necessary to look forward, not back, and allowed the criminals of the Bush Jr. administration to walk away scot-free.

        And now we’re treated to Gina Haspel stonewalling in time-honoured fashion at her confirmation hearing was a disgusting display. Good for the protesters who had to be physically removed — they’re on the right side of history.

        Torture is a crime against humanity, and the criminals are still in charge. Let none of us be fooled or sit still for it.

      • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 11:21 am #

        Carter was inherently honest and well meaning, but deeply conflicted. Reagan was a true believer who, as we now know, was also entering the twilight of dementia. But you’re right, unlike everyone who’s come along since, they were at least honest brokers.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:12 pm #

        And the Gipper began the mass amnesty of Hispanic invaders. He was a lovely man apparently, in well in over his head. I’ve heard that every member of his Cabinet was Council of Foreign Relations while he was not. A far more likeable George Bush Jr.

        Didn’t need no welfare state,
        Everybody pulled her weight,
        G our oks Lasalle ran great,
        Those were the daze.

        • Steeleje May 14, 2018 at 4:30 pm #

          Hispanic invaders???!!! The people who come and fill the jobs that Americans won’t take. Hispanic invaders are why you don’t pay $17.00 for a head of lettuce. The are human beings who have as much right as you to want to achieve that fairy story called ‘The American Dream’. Their children deserve a chance at a life in this country, just as much as you.

          Do you view all immigrants as ‘invaders’ or just the brown ones? What tribe can you claim? Unless you can claim native blood you are the descendant of some ‘invader’ or another.

          Your marginalizing and labeling certain groups of immigrants ‘invaders’ is what is wrong with this country.

          How vile you must be sir.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 6:34 pm #

            Rubbish. At first they told us to leave the Southwest. Then they told us to get out of California. Then they said go back to the 13 original colonies. Now they say go back to Europe. They’ll take the whole continent if we’re weak and stupid enough to let them.

            La Raza means The Race after all. And their motto is, For our Race everything and for other races, nothing.

            Are they vile too?

          • DrTomSchmidt May 16, 2018 at 10:17 am #

            If you read about how the organic salad growers of Kollivornia do it, they have laser-leveled fields so that rolling harvesters can come along and clip the mesclun and drop it right into the bag.

            Human hands are not needed.
            pressherald.com/2014/02/13/a_word_with_the_boss__freeport_farming_couple_reaping_accolades/

            “You’re not seeing that now at the price point we’re at, but to get the price down, you need equipment. We cut mesclun by going out in the field with a knife and then we put it in a plastic bucket, but in California, they have laser-leveled fields and a self-propelled machine to harvest it, so they’re getting it off the field for pennies a pound.”

            I don’t recall paying $17 a lb for mesclun, but then that’s probably because I don’t buy lettuce by the pound, and neither do you. Btw, the story is with farmers who don’t hire cheap stoop labor to do their work, but do it themselves.

            Try another myth.

      • Dumbedup May 16, 2018 at 8:27 pm #

        Ford, Reagan and Carter were well-meaning and likable Presidents who were trampled by the deep state. Gerald Ford’s pardon of Nixon and famous “Eastern Europe” gaffe in the 76 election debate with Carter, and his physical and verbal clumsiness, lost the election.

        Carter made more headway towards peace in the ME than any other President, but he always seemed indecisive about other policies. His impotence in the face of the Iran Embassy captives and his “crisis of confidence” speech made his re-election impossible. He appeared weak and ineffective as President.

        Reagan was affable and charming, but his presidency will forever be stigmatized by Iran-Contra and other scandals resulted in 138 convictions of administration officials. The most of any President. If you read about how he handled the Berkeley protests while he was Governor of California you might change your mind about him. I certainly did – although I still liked him as a person.

        I think all 3 were manipulated and lied to by the people they trusted for advice. That is usually what happens to decent people.

  8. K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 10:00 am #

    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

    The precision and care of American Airstrikes on the city ot Raqqua was relaxed and bombing moved from precision to indiscriminate land as Trump began his term. I heard that from an interview with Marwan Hisham one of the authors of ‘Brothers of the Gun’ last night. This upped the civilian death toll considerably. The other author Molly Crabtree made the comment that Americans are woefully ignorant of the lands outside their borders.

    How many know that Trump is a more ruthless bomber than Oprah’s choice was? How many people know that the people of Syria must now suffer through a proxy war between Israel and Iran unless serious international pressure is put on both of them to knock it off. If they continue perhaps Iran and Israel could both pay the people of Syria money to rebuild their cities if the land must be used for another war. If the Israelis could use Obama’s precision and not dump like Trump it might be a good deal. Even better if they could only bomb out buildings already destroyed.

    • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 10:16 am #

      Better still would be if the United States and its allies could define exactly what interests they really have at stake in the greater Middle East, if any, and whether there is more than one way to achieve those aims.

      The west’s endless warring there seems to feed on the very animosities it creates. It’s the “beatings will continue until morale improves” principle — if they don’t like us, then they must be bombed until they do, or at least act like they do. ‘Precision’ bombing is just another term for ‘more’ bombing. How is more bombing supposed to help at this point? I’m asking.

      • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 10:42 am #

        Actually precision is better because whole neighborhoods are not wiped out. Trump started wiping out whole neighborhoods.

        I was not aware that Trump could read so he must have been inspired by watching a Jack Alpert video and he is doing his part in getting the population down to manageable numbers.

        • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:35 pm #

          Big Comedy is starting to realize America is sick of the Trump bashing. It’s not funny anymore if it ever was.

          • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 10:59 pm #

            The Neocons also assume that a majority of Iran’s younger generations are good-and-goddam sick of the ruling mullahs, and eager for their own regime change. And so now the Trumpsters, apparently, are determined to squeeze Iran until something over there gives.

            Stands to reason since killing Muslims is involved you’d become a trump supporter. But Trump deserves more than bashing he is after all like you.

      • bhnj13 May 14, 2018 at 10:48 am #

        More bombing wont help. Once the oils gone we wont give a shit about the Middle East. But once the oils gone theyre people will angrily flee the region due to reduced carrying capacity of lands ranging from semi-arid to desert. That is something that we should give a shit about and is already effecting our European allies. Plus theres the underlying religious tension thats been brewing since the days of Ishmael and flares up periodically. So we’ll never really be able to be fully “out of the Middle East”. It is the literal center of the world, the global crossroads. That doesn’t mean we have to always bomb them but that has been American foreign policy since the fall of the Soviets “uhhh i guess we’ll bomb some brown folks”.

        in short our stakes in the greater middle east are a. access to oil. b. contain violence of the region within the region (mostly accomplished with more violence and with wildly varying results).

        • Jigplate May 14, 2018 at 1:43 pm #

          “But once the oils gone theyre people will angrily flee the region due to reduced carrying capacity of lands ranging from semi-arid to desert.”

          Angela Merkal and rest of our allies have already spoken on this issue. They have decided on open borders. The day may come when they will rue that decision, but as they say, the die has been cast. I believe that the US will one day see a new wave of white western European migrants – this time fleeing Islamic chaos in Europe.

      • Walter B May 14, 2018 at 2:47 pm #

        Bombing helps those who profit from not only manufacturing and selling the ordinance to our military but by those that our government pays to rebuild that which is destroyed by the bombing afterwards like Dick Cheney and Halliburton. And those that take and refine the oil and opium poppies of course.

        • Elrond Hubbard May 15, 2018 at 10:34 am #

          Pretty much, Walter B. War has become a self-licking ice cream cone for the war industry. Despite the need for endless fuel, the juggernaut has so much momentum it’ll likely carry on for a while even as the gears seize up and the oil runs out, out of sheer obliviousness. The endgame should make for quite a grimly entertaining spectacle, like those YouTube montages of collapsing buildings (except we’ll all be inside it).

        • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 10:53 am #

          Quite so, Walter. It also illustrates the point I’ve made before about the lunacy of the way we count things, economically speaking.

          So, the destruction caused by climate change leads to helpful GDP figures when houses are rebuilt and electricity restored, and the rebuilding of war zones leads to ‘economic growth’. Like so many things that can be made to make sense on paper (financial derivatives being another, as it momentarily occurs to me).

          And given the environmental damage done by the production of concrete, the atmosphere’s going to take a bit of a double whammy between the warring itself and all that new building that’s going to be needed.

          Homo-not-all-that-sapiens.

        • Walter B May 15, 2018 at 5:30 pm #

          So here we have Elrond, GA and I, three people coming from very different points of view and pretty much form very different ideologies, all denouncing war, especially war for profit, singing the same tune. Wow, this might qualify as a Movement people! How can we grow this thing into an entity that might actually make a difference?

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:15 pm #

      Mr Assad is a great man and must remain in power. This is the line in the sand. Eurasia will not allow Oceania to remove him.

      • draupnir May 15, 2018 at 9:21 am #

        So, Skorenzy, it appears that Mr. Kunstler is keeping you around as his pet Nazi. How droll. i don’t know what your getting out of it. I knew you’d never respond when I called you out right at the top of the page. You prefer to keep your more lurid rantings down at the bottom of the board, and I imagine Mr. Kunstler becomes bored with the inane ramblings and doesn’t check it too closely.

        Wanna dance? I believe I can annoy you enough to push you over the edge, or would you just prefer to apologize to me now and we can ignore each other in the future?

        • PeteAtomic May 15, 2018 at 7:05 pm #

          Please don’t be disrespectful to our host that way. Mr. Kunstler is not keeping Janos around as his “pet Nazi”

          That’s a completely spurious statement.

          • draupnir May 15, 2018 at 8:33 pm #

            This is personal, and not directed toward’s Mr. Kunstler. He’s the pet Nazi all the same.

          • draupnir May 15, 2018 at 9:23 pm #

            Skorenzy owes me an apology for a vile insult and I intend to have it.

            “If we took over, we’d have you parroting our party line in six months, issuing outraged denials if anyone reminded you of your previous “beliefs”.

            He’s talking about Nazis you know and he’s not going to just waltz away laughing. I intend to make him pretty uncomfortable until he coughs it up.

            If Mr. Kunstler is a just man, and I believe he is, He will understand that. If he has a problem with me, I’m sure he will do me the honor of telling me himself.

          • draupnir May 15, 2018 at 11:13 pm #

            The more that I think of it the more certain I am that a pet is exactly what Skorenzy is, and I believe he did that to himself, either consciously or unconsciously. After all, he sought out Kunstler..Whether either one of them is aware of this or not is quite immaterial. The conclusion is inescapable. Didn’t you see the way he came nicely to heel at Mr. Kunstler’s command? Let’s hope he doesn’t piddle on the floor again soon.

            On further reflection, I believe I will forgo my apology and leave poor Janos alone. I wouldn’t want to add to his burdens.

      • Tate May 15, 2018 at 4:31 pm #

        I was just reading a piece by James Kirkpatrick (a wonderful writer) at Vdare that puts it in perspective:

        speaking of the late Christopher Hitchens who famously argued (paraphrasing John Stuart Mill) that those who speak differently don’t just deserve the right to speak, “That person’s right to speak must be given extra protection.”

        It’s a good article about the big tech media giants, Google, Facebook & Twitter and how they are seeking to muzzle free speech and how Conservatism, Inc. (i.e., the Controlled Opposition) is, as usual, going along.

        • draupnir May 15, 2018 at 6:13 pm #

          If he apologizes now I’ll just hit him. If he waits until Friday I’m going to bloody his nose. If he waits until Monday I’ll kick him in the balls. I own him. He’s got nothing but a vicious tone and adhominem attacks.

  9. Jigplate May 14, 2018 at 10:05 am #

    “I’m rather skeptical that President Trump will manage to get a new-and-improved “deal” with Iran after tearing up the old one put together by Mr. Obama, which may have not been of much value anyway.”

    As am I. Back in December, as a juror in a federal trial related to Obama era Iran sanctions violations, I received the equivalent of a graduate degree in international money laundering. The lengths to which Iran went to evade US and EU sanctions in order to convert oil money ( which was denominated in Turkish Lira in a Turkish bank) into SWIFT enabled US dollars and Euros was astonishing. The scheme was at once diabolical and comical. In one instance, due to the “humanitarian” exemptions in the sanctions, the defendant was recorded admonishing the leader of the scheme because his falsified bills of lading showed 100 tons of food being loaded on a vessel only capable of holding 50 tons. like trying to cram 5 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag!

    • Q. Shtik May 14, 2018 at 11:35 am #

      like trying to cram 5 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag! – Jig

      ============

      You screwed up your punch line by getting it exactly backward. I learned in my youth that a ‘blivit’ is 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag.

      • Jigplate May 14, 2018 at 1:37 pm #

        “You screwed up your punch line by getting it exactly backward. I learned in my youth that a ‘blivit’ is 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag.”

        Yes – my apologies. As I age , i have found that I frequently mix up simple things like that.

        • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 11:01 pm #

          Hey how often do dyslectics get a break. It’s all doog.

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 11:01 am #

            I like the one about the dyslexic man walking into a bra…

            That could be construed as a break, maybe.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:34 pm #

        The weight is not important. The physical dimensions of the bag and object are the defining parameters. One could cram a thousand pounds into a 5 pound bag if you had a substance of sufficient density. Lifting such a bag by its handle or excess baggage at the top is another matter of course.

        Are you going to tell us about your trip now or what?

        • capt spaulding May 14, 2018 at 4:11 pm #

          I gotta say Janos, you really know your shit,

          • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 6:39 pm #

            Aw shit, thanks Cap.

  10. patrickd May 14, 2018 at 10:05 am #

    The poor USA! Iran won’t do as told, works in three countries to counter US terrorism, murder, and looting – horror! When will Iran learn that the USA is entitled to all the wealth of the entire world? What is wrong with that country? The USA is master, and the world is its slave. If the slave doesn’t like that, the USA has the right to murder it. So the story goes… The day the US criminal regime ends will be a good day in the world.

    • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 11:17 am #

      I think that day is coming sooner rather than later. It’s finally been widely exposed, which is the necessary first step.

      • Jigplate May 14, 2018 at 2:20 pm #

        “I think that day is coming sooner rather than later. It’s finally been widely exposed, which is the necessary first step.”

        You may be right, but I think that an awful lot of people around the world will miss us when we’re gone.

        • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 2:51 pm #

          I think they’ll dance on our graves.

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 6:17 am #

            Nah, Scratch, we’ll just rejoice at that one lost sheep returning to the fold. Or something. And I speak from a glass house, so no gloating whatever involved. Or stones. Sensible people just want a return of sense. Not spurious ‘victories’.

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 7:14 am #

            That’s assuming that you’re not entirely ‘gone’, Scratch, just quietly getting on with things without stirring up hornets’ nests in hornet-y parts of the world 🙂 .

    • PeteAtomic May 15, 2018 at 7:03 pm #

      I think you are totally correct about the bipolar nature of US foreign policy. On one hand the world is supposed to believe that the US stands for “freedom and democracy” while the other hand is literally beating the shit of it.

  11. Robert White May 14, 2018 at 10:08 am #

    Israel & the USA are wholeheartedly exacerbating world tensions for their own benefits. Iran is just the latest target in their collective sights. What I assume will happen is that the entire world will turn against the USA and Israel in short order. The global victimization of human beings for the financial aggrandizement of USA & Israel is intolerable from most perspectives. Subordinating all other nations at the behest of Israel & USA is anathema to the world’s populations.

    Communism is the only way forward IMO. Crony Capitalism has outlived it’s usefulness.

    Karl Marx was right about Capitalism.

    RW

    • Jigplate May 14, 2018 at 10:24 am #

      Sorry- 150 million corpses in the 20th century is enough to tell me the Marxism / Communism is a bad idea. Marxists make Hitler look like an amateur.

      • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 11:16 am #

        How many is the US responsible for during that same period? I think the answer, assuming it could even be accurately found, would be enlightening.

        • Jigplate May 14, 2018 at 1:22 pm #

          “How many is the US responsible for during that same period? I think the answer, assuming it could even be accurately found, would be enlightening.”

          whatever it is, it is far less than Marxism/communism. Republican democracy together with capitalism IS the greatest polity in human history. Your simplistic statement is part and parcel of the Marxist “relativism” argument – the idea that all systems of government, cultures, etc are power based hierarchical systems that equally battle for dominance on the world stage, it is this argument that led to all of those corpses in the first place. The post modernist philosophers of the 20th century were ardent Marxists. Marxism/communism always viewed the world as a battleground between the working class and the bourgeoisie. but by the 1960’s they had 2 major problems. First, because of the aforementioned body count, it was becoming unfashionable to advocate Marxism in the west, secondly , the post-war proles of the west were doing pretty good ( especially in America). So the post modernists simply ran Marxism through a slick re-branding- replacing the proles and “capitalistic running-dogs” with race/ethnic/gender based identity groups ( with white christian men taking the place of the evil capitalist pigs). Is our system flawed? you bet it is. But I will fight for it all day long above any other.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:38 pm #

            Yet the Bankers of your great polity funded Communism in order to bring down the Aristocracies and then the Fascist states. Now they’re coming for YOU and YOURS: the “democracies” and the middle classes thereof – using Islam and the minorities this time as their shock troops.

        • Walter B May 15, 2018 at 9:58 am #

          You are absolutely correct Scratch and it is more than a little bit depressing to see those people that still operate using “moral compasses” that steer their way based on body counts. You killed more, you are worse, or I killed more I am better as in Vietnam. Murder when they do it is good but when you do it, it is bad. When will people face the grim reality that it is and always has been the established “governments” of the World that do 99% percent of the murdering of human beings and they do it for profit! No hope, just dope.

    • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 10:50 am #

      You used the ‘C’ word. There is no better way to make an American go ape shit than use ‘communism’ in a sentence. The older of us were brainwashed in the cold war into thinking Stalin’s oppression and Communism were exactly the same thing and unspeakably evil. Younger Americans were not brainwashed the same way but they react just as strongly to the ‘C’ word because mention of the word might result in thought.

      If it did not have so many syllables it could be used to start races instead of a gun shooting blanks.

      • JohnAZ May 14, 2018 at 11:00 am #

        K-dog

        Our succeeding generations have become more indulged and consequently more dependent and therefore better fodder for the liberal led Socialists. And Communists. They understand that Communism includes Big Brother, but do not understand that so does Socialism.

        • TiredOfTheTreadmill May 14, 2018 at 11:06 am #

          Sure seems like capitalism these days requires a whole lot of Big Brother itself. Just for marketing purposes of course…

        • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 11:53 am #

          In a world of limited resources big brother is going to be in any system. The question is what system gives the best deal for everyone going forward and produces the best sustainability. Which system will have the best big brother?

          Of all the possibilities unrestrained capitalism is lowest on the list. Note I said unrestrained so you don’t have to kick me.

          • Robert White May 14, 2018 at 3:39 pm #

            Professor Emeritus James Maxwell posited Maxwell’s Demon
            as the best possible ‘big brother’ to allow gas to escape a closed system. Cybernetic Theory & Information Theory utilize Maxwell’s Demon with respect to Thermodynamics and the Second Law of Entropy.

            BIG Brother is just the Entropy & Maxwell’s Demon controlling how much gas gets let out of the closed-looped system. Without BIG Brother we would have to have an Open-looped Cybernetic System to govern the masses.

            All hail the new emperor Open-looped Systems Cybernetics!!!!

            And this new emperor ain’t swimming naked either so we don’t have to see the wobbly bits.

            RW

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 10:22 am #

            “The question is what system gives the best deal for everyone going forward and produces the best sustainability.”

            As I’ve mentioned before, we aren’t going to solve – or even mitigate – either the resource problem or the climate change problem without some form of ‘planning’. Planning, unfortunately, is a bit of a trigger word that seems to make some of the hard of thinking leap to the ‘C’ word or the ‘S’ word, and yet planning there needs to be.

            If someone thought they could manage their own resources (intellectual, financial, whatever…) throughout their life without some sort of planning, they would be told they were lacking in insight. Yet somehow a lack of insight on a societal level is considered to be acceptable and environment destruction, with its consequential societal destruction, a price worth paying for excessive individual freedom to do damage.

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 10:23 am #

            And yes, the opposite of unregulated capitalism is regulated capitalism, not communism, although there are those who think that regulated capitalism is almost exactly that. Or rather they want you to think it is.

      • Jigplate May 14, 2018 at 1:25 pm #

        Communism always leads to murderous oppression. This has happened every single time it has been tried. What makes you think that “one more time oughta get it right” ?

      • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:44 pm #

        As if there wasn’t mass murder under Lenin and Trotsky. What did Lennon say about not making it with anybody if you talk about Chairman Mao?

        In Africa (Tanzania I believe), hundreds of thousands were herded at gun point off their little farms into mass collectives. An utter disaster needless to say.

        Communism always fails. It’s proponents then say it failed because it wasn’t real Communism – failing to see that such “precious” and precarious thing (like an element that only appears for a second under strange conditions) is not and can not be working economic policy in this rough world with people being as they are.

      • Tate May 15, 2018 at 12:30 am #

        Does communism mean destroying people’s livelihoods, preventing their free movement, coercing them at the point of a gun to large-scale undertakings against their preferred interests, confiscating their property, interfering in markets to the point of extinguishing them, rescinding the rights of assembly, free speech, religion, security in ones person & possessions & privacy, habeas corpus, trial by jury and other abuses?

        Just wondering. That does seems to be what communism has meant in practice in the past. Given its history, it would seem the burden of proof is on you.

        • Sean Coleman May 15, 2018 at 9:27 am #

          And family, tradition and patriotism. And sense, common sense, decency, goodness and honesty. And the local and the particular, and (true) diversity and local community.

    • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 11:13 am #

      RW,

      Communism with the hierarchical aspects greatly attenuated, yes. But it can’t be imposed. It will have to be adopted from the bottom up, just like it was before we got so numerous and hierarchically organized.

      And you’re right, Marx knew more about capitalism than all it’s sycophant academics combined, before or since.

      • Jigplate May 14, 2018 at 1:31 pm #

        “…But it can’t be imposed. It will have to be adopted from the bottom up,”

        The problem with that is that by the time it gets from the bottom to the top , the top Will impose it , and in the the most repressive way possible.

        • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 2:48 pm #

          Yes, that’s been the problem so far, for sure. As I said, our numbers will have to shrink dramatically first. There’s simply no sense of community possible when our numbers are in the Billions and mass hierarchical structures are necessary to keep some small semblance of “order” over the free for all that naturally results. Communal (not commun-“ism”) living is the natural order of things when the numbers are right. And until our numbers are right again, nothing else will really matter.

          • PeteAtomic May 15, 2018 at 6:55 pm #

            Do you think we oughta be living in maybe some kind Mennonite-styled communities? (maybe not necessarily with the religious connotation)

      • Robert White May 14, 2018 at 3:47 pm #

        The Proletariat will force the issue as they did with Occupy Wall Street. Don’t forget that Marx posited a workers revolution whereby the 99% would rise up against the oppressor 1% Oligopolists violently.

        Marxian Revolution is violent revolution, Scratch. I disagree that it cannot be imposed upon the oligarchy. Moreover, with enough socially destabilizing revolution the people will acquiesce to majority demands just to instill peace in our time. Communism seems to be the natural result of having too many people in the population to deal with the demands placed on the system. Ergo, lines get drawn in the sand as has happened in China due to population size IMO.

        I agree that Marx was well before his time.

        RW

        • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 6:41 pm #

          White Men last a la the Progressive Stack? And White Women guilt tripped to tears by other Feminists?

          Y’all are comin’ apart at the seams!

      • Sean Coleman May 15, 2018 at 9:29 am #

        “capitalism and… its sycophant academics”

        When English conservative philosopher Roger Scruton was teaching at London University in the 1970s he said that there were only two people in his college who were not Marxists: himself and his Italian cleaner.

    • lbs May 14, 2018 at 1:05 pm #

      Robert White: So I guess your point is that rather than stagger into a totalitarian future let’s just embrace it and pick the most bloody and oppressive system that ever existed as our template for the future.

      • Robert White May 14, 2018 at 2:38 pm #

        Orthodox ‘Capitalism’ is non-existent, lbs.

        Would you rather have more wars & killing of innocents?

        Would you rather have Nuclear Winter?

        The choices are there to make, eh.

        RW

        • Tate May 16, 2018 at 4:23 pm #

          But you present a false dichotomy. It’s not either/or.

  12. Robert White May 14, 2018 at 10:25 am #

    Genetically, we have more genes in common than not so the entire world can adjust to that fact and learn to live symbiotically with all people of the world on an equal footing meritocratically.
    Moreover, the way forward is systemically obvious if one understands cybernetics & theory.

    The New World Disorder will celebrate the human brain instead of human difference in terms of genotypic or phenotypic differences.

    RW

    • bhnj13 May 14, 2018 at 10:50 am #

      “Cant we all just get along?” Never gonna happen bro

      • JohnAZ May 14, 2018 at 10:53 am #

        Even extending on your statement, the human being is wired for competition and conflict. Kumbaya denies this fact.

        • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 11:07 am #

          Well, the western variant of humanity certainly seems to be, anyway. But that’s also a product of the most comprehensive propaganda campaign ever waged during the 20th century. Americans are now so completely enamored with war (it’s the very air that they breath) that they can no longer even imagine anything better. By design, of course.

        • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 10:33 am #

          I did a quick bit of research, because, although it’s kind of intuitively obvious what references to Kumbaya suggest, it’s not a ‘thing’ over here, in terms of sneering political discourse, so this site is the first place I’ve come across it (other than as the actual song).

          So this article was quite interestingly informative:

          npr.org/2012/01/13/145059502/when-did-kumbaya-become-such-a-bad-thing

          But the last sentence is the important one, I think:

          “The fuzzily translated word has become crystal clear code in the world of politics. As Vanderbilt University political scientist John G. Geer said to Freedman in The New York Times, invoking kumbaya “lets you ridicule the whole idea of compromise.”

    • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 10:54 am #

      The problem is we have more ‘stupid’ genes in common than ‘smart’ ones. Sorry to pop your bubble.

    • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 11:09 am #

      The way forward is the way back. Fewer, simpler, more agreeable; although it will take the deaths and non-replacement of several billions of us before we finally get there. Overshoot is a bitch!

      • Robert White May 14, 2018 at 2:44 pm #

        I wish I could be as optimistic as you and JHK seem to be about the way forward, but if the present situation continues we will evidence WW3, and then thermonuclear ‘hot’ conflagrations leading to nuclear winter which will not exactly be conducive to life of any sort on planet Earth, Ol’ Scratch.

        I agree on the overshoot of warring factions. The Second & First World Wars were said to be enough to end all wars back in the 60s. Today, everyone forgets what damage is done when wars break out in actuality.

        Overshoot is indeed a bitch, totally agree.

        RW

        • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 6:36 pm #

          If you call the early deaths of several billions by increasingly terrible means “optimistic.” It won’t be nearly as fun as it sounds.

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:50 pm #

      The brains of the different races are different. Why did you assume they weren’t? As if the human body ends at the forehead and the rules of genetics no longer apply.

      A charming example: There are three breeds of wild cats that look almost exactly like our domestic cats, except slightly bigger on average. Almost all our breeds stem from the African wild cat, possibly first domesticated by the Egyptians. A few may come at least partially from the Asian wild cat. None come from the European wild cat. It is simply far too savage by temperament. You can take the kittens of the other two and raise them as pets away from the wild mother and her culture of wildness. Not so the European. It is different in some subtle genetic way at the level of the brain.

      • Robert White May 14, 2018 at 7:35 pm #

        The Central Nervous Systems of human beings are ‘wired’ for executive functions such as planning-frontal cortex, and consciousness/conscience. Cats & dogs are genetically hard wired for instinctual survival. Dogs are pack animals so that they gain advantage by being highly social animals that act according to hierarchy in the pack. Cats, on the other hand, are solitary animals that, if fed, will domesticate as long as you continue feeding them. Feral cats are not amenable to socialization or domestication.

        There is on one race of human beings involved in the concept of civilization. Race is a man made concept derived from centuries of Eugenics buffoonery that emanated out of Europe. Genetically,
        both genotypic & phenotypic similarities between ethnicities is more than 98% the same. Genetic variation between ethnic groups is very small on the scale of being statistically significant.

        RW

        • Tate May 14, 2018 at 11:48 pm #

          Perhaps, but the 2% makes all the difference. People have been wiping out other tribes for millennia and taking their land & women. The Pots not people theory.

          • Tate May 14, 2018 at 11:50 pm #

            Or rather, People not pots. Pots not people was the prevailing theory until recently when the genetic evidence became too embarrassingly obvious to ignore.

          • Elrond Hubbard May 15, 2018 at 11:00 am #

            The narcissism of small differences is built in to human nature. If there aren’t visible differences like skin colour, people will manufacture distinctions from nothing, the most popular substitute being religion. People will then spend centuries murdering each other over points of interpretation, as happened in Europe after the Reformation; or over whether this person or that was the proper successor of the holy prophet, as in the distinction between Shi’a and Sunni Islam.

            Meanwhile, atheist critics of religion will waste endless breath criticizing the irrationality of both sides, never twigging to the fact that the conflict isn’t motivated by the religious opinions at all. The religious label is just an identity signifier — a product of the built-in hunger to construct all the world as either friend or foe. (If you can tell whether someone from Ireland is Catholic or Protestant just by looking at them, you’ve got sharp eyes indeed.) That mentality itself, and the need to feed it, is where the problem lies.

            As for race, it’s a scientifically meaningless concept. ‘Scientific racism’ was a 19th century idea, and belongs back there along with phlogiston and other discarded concepts. There’s debate today over whether different populations of humans merit the term subspecies, since we don’t hesitate to use that term for other living things with similar superficial differences. But that modern humans altogether comprise a single species is beyond doubt. There are no two populations anywhere on Earth so dissimilar that they can’t have fertile offspring (something that wasn’t always true in the past; hundreds of thousands of years ago there really were distinct human species, but Homo sapiens is the only one left). We who are alive today are all fundamentally the same kind of being.

            And no matter how much Janos and others rave and insist on their prejudice that some groups are inherently better than others, that’s simply the identity mentality swollen into a mental boil. I’m not the one to lance it for them; they need to take care of themselves.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 1:25 pm #

            You don’t think the brain difference in the European Wild Cat is significant? Do you think it’s culture? That’s already been disproven. .

            Non-sequitir? No, a principle. If cats can be this way, so can people, as in the different races. I know you get this, but many do not.

          • Elrond Hubbard May 15, 2018 at 3:33 pm #

            “Can”, he says. This is my free lottery ticket all over again.

            Even were I to accept your bigoted claims about race at face value, which I do not, between “can” and “is” there is a vast chasm which can only be bridged by serious investigation.

            Not only have you not done any such investigation, Janos, you give plentiful signs of not even being capable of understanding what it is you’re lacking. You’re Dunning-Kruger in a cheap hood, sieg-heiling for an audience of yourself.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 5:58 pm #

            In other words, you can’t explain why the European Wild Cat cannot be domesticated even though it looks almost exactly like domestic cats. And why in contrast, the African and Asian Wild Cats can and have.

            Calling me mean names is an admission of defeat. You folks are starting to lose and lose badly on all intellectual fronts – and I think you know it.

          • GreenAlba May 16, 2018 at 8:19 am #

            Elrond

            “…the built-in hunger to construct all the world as either friend or foe.”

            The great Mark Knofler:

            Well he’s daddy’s little boy he plays with his toys
            He holds on to his daddy’s hand
            His daddy says Sonny you’re a big strong boy
            You’re gonna be a big strong man
            And they go play catch they go play ball
            They go take a walk along the sand
            Big strong daddy and a big strong boy
            Living in a big strong land

            Daddy is he a goodie or a baddie
            Daddy can I have a dinosaur
            Once upon a time there were cannibals
            Now there are no cannibals any more

            Down in Louisiana there’s a hurricane coming
            The little boy climbs the stairs
            And all along the levee all the people come running
            And the little boy’s saying his prayers
            And a sleepy little laddie smiles up at his daddy
            And he’s asking for his G.I. Joe
            And daddy tucks him in with a kiss upon the chin
            And says my little one I love you so

            Daddy is he a goodie or a baddie
            Leave a light outside the door
            Once upon a time there were cannibals
            Now there are no cannibals any more

            Lay down your head now don’t get out of bed
            Don’t you let the bedbugs bite
            It’s time to go to sleep now not another peep
            And I’ll see you in the morning light
            And then the radio was playing and the weatherman was saying
            The hurricane had blown away
            And daddy’s little boy was jumping up for joy
            And he was singing at the break of day

            Daddy is he a goodie or a baddie
            Daddy can I be a warrior
            Once upon a time there were cannibals
            Now there are no cannibals any more

            Yeah daddy is he a goodie or a baddie
            Daddy why do people go to war?
            Once upon a time there were cannibals
            Now there are no cannibals any more

            youtube.com/watch?v=g4Wt4n1RpdI

            Earworm warning…

          • Tate May 16, 2018 at 10:40 am #

            We wiped out all the cannibals. We brought truth & enlightenment to the savage nations and they saw the error of their ways. Now, the survivors are massing to swamp us by sheer proliferation of numbers. Will the cooking pots be relit?

          • GreenAlba May 16, 2018 at 10:51 am #

            Tate, I’m guessing the ‘cannibals’ refrain is fairly lighthearted and not to be taken too seriously. But I don’t know…

            This guy’s as white as Trump (!) and boiled human beings alive.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_Karimov

            So you missed that savage, although Craig Murray warned about him.

          • Elrond Hubbard May 16, 2018 at 12:02 pm #

            Once again, Janos deploys “in other words” as magic pixie dust to make other people mean what he wants them to mean. Now to correct the record.

            Janos: “The brains of the different races are different. Why did you assume they weren’t?”

            Because that’s the correct way to study a question, that’s why. The default position of a serious investigator is the null hypothesis, which is the assumption that there is no relationship between two measured phenomena. This is as fundamental to science as it gets. If you start by assuming you already know the answer, you’ll find what you’re expecting to find instead of finding what’s true, and so stay mired in the dark ages. Scientific claims have authority because they’re achieved, by disproving the null hypothesis to a high degree of confidence — and doing it via investigation, not bigotry.

            Janos: “In other words, you can’t explain why the European Wild Cat cannot be domesticated even though it looks almost exactly like domestic cats.”

            Well, I’m not a qualified neurobiologist, am I? If I were, I could probably take a good crack at it. But of course, you’re using that example to insist that the same must be true of human beings. Except, what’s true of felines need not be true of human beings — not for any essential reason, but simply because the kind of genetic differences that exist between feline populations are either present in human populations, or they’re not. If they are, it’s up to you to prove it. So far, all you’ve done is insist on it, with a lot of toxicity thrown in.

            Janos, your position is garbage and you have no credibility. What’s more, you persistently fail to acknowledge the ways in which that’s the case, even though once again this week, our host has had to warn you about your toxic behavior. This is why I attributed the Dunning-Kruger effect to you — you don’t know what you don’t know, and rather than find out you ceaselessly double down on your toxicity.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 16, 2018 at 12:42 pm #

            They (cats) are living beings. We (humans) are living beings. They have genes. We have genes. They are mammals. We are mammals. There’s lot of commonality here – have you never heard of animal studies in the testing of drugs with a view to cure human disease?

            The European Wild Cat shows that phenotype or outer expression can vary in the genotype itself. Even though this cat looks like the others, the genes associate with its brain and behavior are different in a subtle way. Wolves vs Dogs would be a good parallel. They are the same breed in that they produce viable offspring together. But the brain of the wolf is a bit different obviously.

            The different breeds of cats and dogs are a good metaphor for the human races. There are obvious differences in appearance, but also differences in behavior. The Siamese type cats are far more vocal than most of our Western breeds for example. That’s innate not “cultural”. Genetic in other words. Genes don’t stop at the neck or the forehead, Elrond.

          • Elrond Hubbard May 16, 2018 at 3:30 pm #

            Janos, stop trying to teach Grandpa how to steal sheep. You’re saying nothing I don’t already understand perfectly well. Further, your claims about felines are defective on two levels.

            The primary defect lies in this statement: “The different breeds of cats and dogs are a good metaphor for the human races.” The idea of race as a meaningful concept, i.e. one that captures tangible, systematic differences between present-day humans, is not a fact — it’s a belief you have. Racism has no scientific support, and lacks even a coherent definition in 21st century biology. When we apply our understanding of real genetics to actual human beings, nothing resembling biological races emerges out of the facts. In my considered opinion, this claim is a product of your bigotry and quite disgusting on its face. While I have breath, I will never yield on this point.

            The less important defect is that observations about cats prove nothing about human beings. You have to study at human beings themselves, and make your claims based on what you find there. You call what you’re saying “a good metaphor”, meaning an analogy, but nothing can be proved by analogy. All an analogy does is frame one idea in terms applicable to another. This is helpful in explicating your frame of mind (your bigoted frame of mind), and drawing people’s attention to something you see; but it doesn’t make what you see actually real, rather than a product of your mind. No analogy will convince anyone who doesn’t already share your prejudice that racism ‘must’ be true.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 16, 2018 at 6:18 pm #

            One of the worst deeds of Boasian Anthropology was to minimize the amount savagery and cannibalism that actually existed in many areas. The latter was widespread in Africa, Australia, Oceania, Central America and at times, up into cultures of the Southeast and Southwestern United States, with sporadic occurrences in the rest. Not sure about South America. Must have been some at least. The Caribs, who hailed from the mouth the Amazon area, were famous cannibals in the Caribbean.

          • GreenAlba May 17, 2018 at 10:29 am #

            Tate

            “We brought truth & enlightenment to the savage nations and they saw the error of their ways.”

            I bet Leopold II had ‘Truth and Enlightenment’ printed on a T-shirt when he went off off to show the Congolese the error of their ways.

          • Tate May 17, 2018 at 1:02 pm #

            Alba, I know you Brits don’t ‘get’ irony, but c’mon! Without writing an essay, all I can say is we got decidedly mixed results. There were (& are) places where a white man’s shadow shouldn’t fall.

          • Elrond Hubbard May 17, 2018 at 3:30 pm #

            Except that the entire premise — that white people were doing the world a favour by traipsing all over the planet, conquering people and appropriating their land and wealth — is faulty to begin with. Robbery and murder are robbery and murder. Whatever delusions help people feel good about doing so, or benefiting from the results, are simply the motive for the crime by another name.

          • Tate May 17, 2018 at 5:57 pm #

            I’m just glad the cannibals didn’t discover Europe before Europe discovered them.

    • Sean Coleman May 15, 2018 at 9:30 am #

      I think we have fewer genes than the sea urchin (or something like that). Genes do not mean anything.

      • Sean Coleman May 15, 2018 at 9:31 am #

        Ditto the brain.

        • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 2:51 pm #

          Genes do not mean anything. Ditto the Brain. This is the blank slate so beloved of the Liberals. Much as you hate them, you are on their side in the Cultural Battle between them and the new genetics and resurgent Ethno-Nationalism. Sad.

          • Sean Coleman May 15, 2018 at 5:02 pm #

            Blank slate? Don’t be daft. I don’t accept blind evolution and the materialist philosophy any more than I do the utopian clowns who believe it. Read Rupert Sheldrake; his theory of morphic fields is much more convincing. The idea of blind evolution is (to my mind) self-evidently stupid. I expect, or at least I hope, that Darwinism will crumble, just as the other two pillars of modern thought, Marx and Freud, also crumbled. Genes are related to the building of amino acids. The materialists hope that they can find the mechanism whereby this leads to the finished animal or ‘organism’. The high hopes for gene technology have collapsed. Who was that English scientist, Crick? He wanted, expected even, to hammer the final nails into the coffin of vitalism during his lifetime. The whole materialist thing is so dull-witted, relying on computer metaphors or ‘blueprints’ for life. You cannot explain existence with silly metaphors and vacuous rhetoric.

          • Sean Coleman May 15, 2018 at 5:04 pm #

            In the same way the new evangelical atheism (as you yourself recognize) is, in John Gray’s words, obviously a Christian heresy, and a particularly crude one at that.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 6:19 pm #

            Does He not smile His work to see? And are not genes part of it? On a lower level, could we not put genes in Aristotle’s formal category in terms of the four causes?

            Matter[edit]

            Aristotle considers the material “cause” (hylé)[12] of an object as equivalent to the nature of the raw material out of which the object is composed. (The word “nature” for Aristotle applies to both its potential in the raw material and its ultimate finished form. In a sense this form already existed in the material: see potentiality and actuality.)

            Whereas modern physics looks to simple bodies, Aristotle’s physics instead treated living things as exemplary. However, he felt that simple natural bodies such as earth, fire, air, and water also showed signs of having their own innate sources of motion, change, and rest. Fire, for example, carries things upwards, unless stopped from doing so. Things like beds and cloaks, formed by human artifice, have no innate tendency to become beds or cloaks.[13]

            In Aristotelian terminology, material is not the same as substance. Matter has parallels with substance in so far as primary matter serves as the substratum for simple bodies which are not substance: sand and rock (mostly earth), rivers and seas (mostly water), atmosphere and wind (mostly air and then mostly fire below the moon). Only individuals are said to be substance (subjects) in the primary sense. Secondary substance, in a different sense, also applies to man-made artifacts.

            Form[edit]

            Further information: Platonic realism

            Aristotle considers the formal “cause” (eidos)[12] as describing the pattern or form which when present makes matter into a particular type of thing, which we recognize as being of that particular type.

            By Aristotle’s own account, this is a difficult and controversial concept.[citation needed] It links with theories of forms such as those of Aristotle’s teacher, Plato, but in Aristotle’s own account (see his Metaphysics), he takes into account many previous writers who had expressed opinions about forms and ideas, but he shows how his own views differ from them.[14]

            Agent[edit]

            Aristotle defines the agent or efficient “cause” (kinoun)[12] of an object as that which causes change and motion to start or stop (such as a painter painting a house) (see Aristotle, Physics II 3, 194b29). In many cases, this is simply the thing that brings something about. For example, in the case of a statue, it is the person chiseling away which transforms a block of marble into a statue. Only this one of the four causes is like what an ordinary English-speaker would regard as a cause.[15]

            End[edit]

            Main article: Teleology

            Aristotle defines the end, purpose, or final “cause” (telos)[12] as that for the sake of which a thing is done.[16] Like the form, this is a controversial type of explanation in science; some have argued for its survival in evolutionary biology,[17] while Ernst Mayr denied that it continued to play a role.[18] It is commonly claimed[by whom?] that Aristotle’s conception of nature is teleological in the sense that Nature has goals apart from those that humans have. On the other hand, as discussed further below, it has also been claimed that Aristotle thought that a telos can be present without any form of deliberation, consciousness or intelligence. An example of a relevant passage occurs in Physics II.8, where he writes:

            This is most obvious in the animals other than man: they make things neither by art nor after inquiry or deliberation. That is why people wonder whether it is by intelligence or by some other faculty that these creatures work, – spiders, ants, and the like… It is absurd to suppose that purpose is not present because we do not observe the agent deliberating. Art does not deliberate. If the ship-building art were in the wood, it would produce the same results by nature. If, therefore, purpose is present in art, it is present also in nature.[

            From the Wiki, “four causes”.

          • Sean Coleman May 16, 2018 at 4:29 pm #

            I just came across this excellent short video with Rupert Sheldrake explaining how materialism-atheism is a belief system.

            youtube.com/watch?v=AJJn7dugSqQ

            Wiki hates Sheldrake and his entry cannot bring itself to admit that he is a scientist. For my own part I hate Wiki. I am possibly unique in doing this, but there.

          • Sean Coleman May 16, 2018 at 4:39 pm #

            One interesting thing I discovered when reading Sheldrake’s book is the appearance in it of Helmholtz (I forget his Christian name), a scientist who was very influential in the ascendancy of materialistic science (or scientific materialism – whatever). I had already come across him as the originator of the orthodox understanding of the anatomy of the human eye. This latter theory was challenged by the great William Bates who revolutionized our understanding of how vision works. And interestingly enough in this connection Sheldrake disagrees with vision as a purely passive activity whereby the retina merely accepts incoming rays of light. He argues that is an active thing and vision is projected out from the eye. It is a philosophical discussion (an interesting one, as usually I cannot stand philosophy or philosophers) and you can read it in his book.

  13. remoran111 May 14, 2018 at 10:33 am #

    Your take on all things political is nuanced and correct save for the fact you never talk about the dangers of the entangled alliance of Israel and the US as the national interests of the two differ considerably to say the least. Washington waxed poetic about this as it has merit considering just involved Israel is in our politics at every level including the WH and the disaster that resides there. What’s your take on this as the 3rd rail of discussing Israel in America is finally ending as it’s not about anti semitism from the perspective of this writer but rather politics and influence of a most persuasive kind.

    • JohnAZ May 14, 2018 at 10:50 am #

      What does Israel represent? A European community right in the middle of the Middle East. Just like the Crusades. Saladin spent much effort driving a European fealty out of Jerusalem. Israel has so outperformed the rest of the ME during its seventy years that they horribly embarrassed their neighbors. It is ongoing proof of the pudding that European capitalism will always outperform the tribal economies that surround it. And the neighbors hate that fact, period. If oil did not exist, where would the ME be?

      • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 10:54 am #

        What does Israel represent? A European community right in the middle of the Middle East.

        What the hell are you talking about, John? Israel is least representative of the “European community” – a fucking Fourth Reich.

        • JohnAZ May 14, 2018 at 11:12 am #

          I have read your ideas about the divisions in Europe and the West. But my statement still stands, Israel evolved from Jewish immigrants from all ares of Europe, escaping from the holocaust in both Easr Europe and West Europe. Israel developed as a European philosophy. And by the way, the Third Reich was a European development.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:56 pm #

            Are you equating Zionism and Nazism? Food for thought! Pat himself has said the Likud Party is classic Fascism, . You may be onto something Az.

      • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 10:56 am #

        “If oil did not exist, where would the ME be?”

        Peaceful

        • JohnAZ May 14, 2018 at 11:20 am #

          The Ottoman Empire was never peaceful and they were fighting over the same issues they are fighting over now. Oil is an enabler. The West, starting with Britain(remember Lawrence) utilized these divisions to destabilize the region, and have been ever since. Why? Oil! For the West. Envision what will happen when Peak Oil takes hold later in the century. Shia and Sunni will just keep slugging it out, sans oil empowerment.

          • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 11:25 am #

            Still, no comparison with murderous wars the “European Community” lead between the Catholics and Protestants.

          • Jigplate May 14, 2018 at 2:42 pm #

            “Shia and Sunni will just keep slugging it out, sans oil empowerment.”

            I agree. They will end the way they began – with camels and swords.

          • Jigplate May 14, 2018 at 2:58 pm #

            “Still, no comparison with murderous wars the “European Community” lead between the Catholics and Protestants.”

            More leftist relativism. If we follow the timeline of when the European religious wars ended since the end of the 17th century, we only have to wait 350 some-odd years before the Islamists figure it out.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 2:54 pm #

        Yeah the barely give the Palestinians enough water to drink or bathe while they have swimming pools.

        Remember, we’re into the meme of resource scarcity here. Capitalism refuses to admit that and thus in not viable long term since it won’t stop growing – much like cancer.

  14. FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 10:40 am #

    Self-referential religious crankery == Ozone

    @Ozone, proud and still clueless…

    Finca. May 7, 2018 at 7:10 am:
    kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-horsefly-cometh/#comment-351496

    Israel and a significant part of the world Jewry proclaimed Trump the Messiah and the second Cyrus the Great, the first Persian (Iranian) king, who was said to be the first Messiah

    huffingtonpost, May 14, 2018 04:34 am:
    huffingtonpost.com/entry/jeanine-pirro-trump-biblical-jerusalem_us_5af92283e4b032b10bfbf607

    Fox News Host: Trump Fulfilled Biblical Prophecy By Moving U.S. Embassy To Jerusalem. Jeanine Pirro also compared Trump to King Cyrus.

    Self-referential religious crankery, eh?

    We are in a midst of world-wide Civil War of distinct religious character, and is hard to say who is more fanatical – American Clintonoids and American Evangelists or Iranian Mullahs.

  15. JohnAZ May 14, 2018 at 10:41 am #

    Just want to remind everyone that Communism and socialism has NEVER succeeded in motivating a population to prosper. The list of failures is long and bloody, USSR, Cuba, a work in progress, Venezuela, Maoist China, Japan, Germany under Nazis. The lack of motivation that is characterized by socialistic governments will always be a weak sister compared to capitalism. Not crony capitalism! The socialistic trends in the US now and the crony capitalism provided by the “I am smarter than you are” elite are a portion of the weakness that has been spreading here.

    Government dependent immigrants flooding our country are a another portion of the increasing weakness. Assimilation into the American culture does not include prolonged dependence on government subsidies but a desire for hard work and a way to get ahead.

    Irony, Iran is our adversary, the West’s adversary. They have raised hell in the ME for two generations and have created two generations worth of refugees to move away to other areas of the world. Now, who is stupid enough to take in immigrants from the ME and North Africa diametrically opposed to their way of life and continuously creates violence in their new lands. I looked in the mirror and it was, guess who? Iran is flooding the West with the human excess from the ME and knows that the liberal policies of the West will not only let them in, but will allow them to politically take over. Iran will win the ethnic battle with the West if things continue as they are. And we will be standing by watching it happen.

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 10:45 am #

      Wrong. We beat your ass in yearly 1970s.

      And then, instead of letting US quietly die due to general bankruptcy (Nixon Gold decision), Soviet leadership undertook a massive effort of saving the American dollar and started massive sales of oil and gas for US dollars (as well as buying US grain).

      • elysianfield May 14, 2018 at 11:28 am #

        Kameraden Finc,
        Thank you and the Soviet Leadership!

    • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 11:02 am #

      Actually Germany was never socialist, while Cuba and the USSR (now Russia) is indeed a work in progress (mostly successful so far, given the US efforts to undermine it). And the US is proving every day with renewed vigor how totally barren, depraved, and destitute military industrial capitalism inevitably is.

      • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 11:18 am #

        works in progress That is a great way to put it. Without advocating for or against, the fact is Capitalism has literally been at war with any communist or socialist experiment the world has ever undertaken making the:

        “Just want to remind everyone that Communism and socialism has NEVER succeeded in motivating a population to prosper.””

        statement a brain dead canard. Further these experiments which have been few enough in number to prove nothing at all only happen in places where misery and disaster has reaped a rich harvest. Hardly a scientifically neutral and scientifically valid setup.

        The statement does signal the presence of an asshat and can be used to identify other asshats so as to form a group of asshats, making the statement somewhat useful.

        • ozone May 14, 2018 at 1:02 pm #

          K-dog,
          Perspective can only be gained by pulling aside the curtains in order to get a wider view of the landscape. I’m seeing much the same detail as yourself. (Sorry about the use of the word “detail”; that could bring about a twinge of cringe! 😉 )

          As to asshattery, that’s a good touchstone you’ve identified…

    • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 11:03 am #

      Just want to remind everyone that Communism and socialism has NEVER succeeded in motivating a population to prosper.

      Medical diplomacy is one of the cornerstones of Cuba’s foreign policy. In 2008, more than 30,000 Cuban doctors and other health professionals collaborated in 70 countries around the world. The strategy, based on the successes of the health system built after the triumph of the revolution, has allowed Cuba to gain international prestige and political capital

      NEVER say NEVER.

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:00 pm #

      Yeah cuz America has no socialism, no post office, utilities, welfare, public road, no nothin. And if does, it shouldn’t. The Gipper don’t like that shit. Roads should be private, with armed guards at both ends to charge a nickel toll or somethin. It would solve the unemployment problem.

  16. Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 10:58 am #

    Not sure what Trump’s trying to do in Iran. To my mind he’s either playing a little bit of backhand passive aggressive by following the script while trying to undermine it at the same time, or he’s gone over to the dark side and is actually following the script. Either way, I doubt is understanding of regional politics allows him to be anything more than a consensus follower, whichever consensus that might be.

    As to the question of Iran or the US being the biggest pain in the ass in the world? That one’s not even remotely close. And Jim, you forgot to mention the CIA’s little adventure in 1953 in removing Mossadegh from power and installing the US patsy Pahlavi (“The Shah of Iran”). That was (quite justifiable) the beginning of Iran’s war with the west, which the west has been waging without interruption ever since.

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 11:03 am #

      Not sure what Trump’s trying to do in Iran

      Trump is winning his most grandiose ideological victory against the Deep State (Stalingrad? or Battle of Moscow?) to date.

      Check the Hillary’s reaction – Clintonoids are in panic mode…

      • Ol' Scratch May 14, 2018 at 11:26 am #

        Could be, but I’m not convinced yet.

      • daveed May 15, 2018 at 1:27 am #

        “Check the Hillary’s reaction – Clintonoids are in panic mode…”

        Well, it’s really difficult to read Hillary’s mood, as you must know,
        since you brought to the discussion (a while back) the fact that she
        is a hypnotist (Mesmerist?) That sorcereress certainly has you spellbound.

        youtube.com/watch?v=8ZeTlMpnfHk

    • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 11:06 am #

      He is doing whatever Bolton tells him to do so get ready to be a puff of smoke.

      • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 11:08 am #

        @Dog, don’t bark up the wrong tree!

  17. janet May 14, 2018 at 11:03 am #

    I’m rather skeptical that President Trump will manage to get a new-and-improved “deal” with Iran after tearing up the old one put together by Mr. Obama

    I, too, am skeptical. But the whole affair is great for both North Korea and for Trump. North Korea gets what every other president has denied them: a face to face meeting. Trump the narcissist gets attention focused on him.

    By the way, Trump’s friend, Oliver North, the guy who sold weapons to Iran for president Reagan, has now been elected president of the NRA.

    • elysianfield May 14, 2018 at 11:33 am #

      “Oliver North, the guy who sold weapons to Iran for president Reagan, has now been elected president of the NRA.”

      Janet,
      A “fellow Marine”?

      Thank you Sweet Jesus….

      • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 1:17 pm #

        Congratulations on your good fortune, elysianfield. As it happens, I have a question for Col. North and I was wondering if you could pass it up the chain for me:

        What will the NRA being doing to come to this guy’s defense? He made statements about police that are no more extreme than what orthodox gun culture enthusiasts (including plenty in this comments section) say as often as breathing. And jack-booted thugs really did kick down his door, and take him and his family in the night. He was jailed for months, before being released because there was simply nothing to charge him with.

        It all sure sounds like exactly the kind of dire warning the NRA has been blaring all over the place, come to hideous life. At least, I’m damned if I can find a difference. Anyway, got any leads on helping this guy out with his spot of trouble?

        • Tate May 14, 2018 at 2:33 pm #

          The FBI, Keighley said, learned of the protest from a video on Infowars, a far-right site run by the commentator Alex Jones, known for spreading false news and conspiracy theories.

          This slip of the pen betrays how objective your source is — the Guardian, a far-left publication based in the U.K.

          • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 4:26 pm #

            So it’s dueling sources, is it? Not accepted. Everyone’s got their point of view, but facts still matter (as I was telling you last week).

            The Guardian can be as ‘far left’ as my butt crack for all I care, as long as they get their facts straight — which they generally do, since they’re an actual news organization that goes and finds things out. Whereas InfoWars is a looney bin that soaks the uninformed for clicks by feeding them rot. If you’re going there to get informed, then god help you, ’cause I can’t.

          • Tate May 14, 2018 at 6:49 pm #

            Be careful with the Guardian as an objective source of your “facts.” It’s anything but objective.

            And what do you mean, ‘not accepted?’ Are you suddenly the arbiter of what’s accepted or not? I hope not. That’s why the cops were raiding that guy. They know that in Hubbardville all the White people will be disarmed while the Black radicals will be let loose to harass, stalk, rape, kill & plunder at their discretion. It was a preemptive strike. They clearly had information that the Guardian is not revealing.

          • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 7:24 pm #

            I’m the arbiter of what I accept, or not. You do you.

            Tate: “They clearly had information that the Guardian is not revealing.”

            Clearly, you just pulled that out of your arse. Last week I described you as a bigot who considers facts optional. Now you’re adding to my case by inventing nonsense out of thin air, apparently because you prefer your narrative of big scary blacks, and you expect to get away with it.

            If I could just declare that ‘I clearly deserve to be rich’, then I’d walk down to the lottery office and collect my winnings. Life doesn’t work that way. If you think you know something the rest of us don’t, it’s on you to show us or shut up.

          • Tate May 14, 2018 at 10:37 pm #

            Here’s a fact for you.

            Just found it on the “Laws & Ethics” webpage of the Huey P. Newton Gun Club, of which your poor oppressed subject is described as a “co-founder.”

            “By-law 3. No member will participate in illegal activities while wearing club patch or logo”

            hueypnewtongunclub.org/laws-and-ethics

            “Hey, y’all, don’t be doin’ no illegal shit while’s you wearin’ da patch, yo.”

            LOL. Maybe the FBI had a reason for busting this guy. Maybe all the “facts” aren’t known yet. Michael Brown & Trayvon Martin news was heavily censored by the legacy media in favor of a public perception of police brutality until the truth finally got out.) Maybe you shouldn’t be relying on the Guardian for all your opinions.

  18. bukowskisghost May 14, 2018 at 11:11 am #

    There are “ professional “ trolls on every forum or discussion site on the web. These cowards hide behind the anonymous screen culture of today’s world. In the real world they would all be eviscerated swiftly and hung by their feet like the Mussolinis’. Please kick this disturbed bully off the site for good. His hit and run pronouncements are the rantings of a eunuch with no real balls. We need to flush out all of these wheelchair snipers.

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 11:18 am #

      Herr Mueller, are you calling the “troll” anybody disagreeing with your prejudices?

    • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 11:23 am #

      If enough dogs were to step up and argue with trolls rationally they’d be run out by sheer numbers. The problem is the number of people who even know that professional paid trolls exist is very small. The number of people who know we have government sponsored trolls working for the military is even smaller than that.

    • elysianfield May 14, 2018 at 11:35 am #

      Ghost,
      Yes, Janos is sometimes disagreeable…let’s kill him….

      • Robert White May 14, 2018 at 12:27 pm #

        Heck, if Janos gets kicked off the blog who will be the next excommunicated contributor? Sometimes Janos is the only contributor that even responds to my posts, and that’s probably because I’m somewhat ‘fringe’ in terms of my Grumpy Marxism
        compared to the center of political polemics often delivered up as being normally distributed in the populations of Western democracies. Yes Janos is a pathological race baiter, but that is nothing new IMO. Perhaps Janos will eventually adopt our shared collective beliefs with respect to ethnocentric labelling & victimization over time.

        Racist views usually stem from upbringing in the developmentally formative years. Janos knows this blog is not racist whatsoever so that tells me he knows better and is simply playing devil’s advocate for argument sake. Bottom line is that Janos has a personality and his personality enjoys getting a rise out of people.
        I assume he has done this since youth.

        RW

        • ozone May 14, 2018 at 1:30 pm #

          “Perhaps Janos will eventually adopt our shared collective beliefs with respect to ethnocentric labelling & victimization over time.”

          RW,
          It is not in his economic interest to do any such thing… nor the ideological bent of his masters. Let’s not waste our time in wishful thinking here (of all places).

          • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:11 pm #

            White Nationalists rule America? Then why are we down to about 60% or so of the population?

            Could you try a little harder please?

        • elysianfield May 14, 2018 at 8:29 pm #

          Elrond,
          I’ll pass on your concerns. I might mention that the NRA has been having a sale on Jack-Boots…40% off with membership, and they come with a free truncheon…a great deal for the budget minded.

          • Elrond Hubbard May 16, 2018 at 5:14 pm #

            Do tell. Are they gonna cut anyone in on this action?

            Oliver North Worked with Cocaine Traffickers to Arm Terrorists. Now He’ll Be President of the NRA.

            theintercept.com/2018/05/12/oliver-north-nra-iran-contra/

            “The National Rifle Association has always been clear about drugs: They’re terrifying.

            “Last year, NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre darkly warned that members of drug gangs ‘are infiltrating law enforcement and even the military.’ In 2013, LaPierre proclaimed that ‘Latin American drug gangs have invaded every city of significant size in the United States’ and are a key part of the ‘hellish world’ that awaits us in the future. When Charlton Heston was president of the NRA in the 1990s, he declared that regular Americans would soon be besieged by 10,000 drug dealers freed from prison by the Clinton administration.

            “It seems odd, then, that the next president of the NRA will soon be Oliver North, who spent years in the 1980s working together with large-scale cocaine traffickers and protecting a notorious narco-terrorist from the rest of the U.S. government.”

            It’s a funny old world. The darnedest things happen in it, if you’re paying attention.

        • elysianfield May 14, 2018 at 8:36 pm #

          “Racist views usually stem from upbringing in the developmentally formative years”

          RW,
          Usually, but not always. Until I was 21 I was “down” with the brothers…down because I never lived near them…I wanted to freedom ride…our family was a military one, and equal treatment was our experience.

          However…a few months on the street in Oakland California disabused me of my ignorance. I do not usually discuss race directly, but am certainly not a fan of the Ghetto Culture. It’s all about content of character…. People come to the truth in many ways…and can at any age.

          • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 11:06 pm #

            People come to the truth in many ways…and can at any age.

            Very true, but there is never a guarantee that any particular person ever will.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:05 pm #

        I’m being crucified today. But I shall not wholly die. Flawless Victory!

        • Robert White May 14, 2018 at 4:01 pm #

          If you push certain blog buttons you can invariably expect some button pushing to be returned in kind, Janos. Educated people do not push these buttons unless they are caught with their pants down or their hand in the cookie jar.

          You are liked here by a number of people so don’t ruin your reputation any further and become an outcast. Realize that we don’t like racism whatsoever. Don’t continually bait us with racism and do make the points you would like to make without resorting to histrionic racism.

          In other words, be ethical in approach, eh.

          RW

        • daveed May 15, 2018 at 2:14 am #

          “I’m being crucified today. But I shall not wholly die. Flawless Victory!”–Janos

          You are a special lad today. Look at how much attention you collected for yourself. And how many productive conversations and debates you interrupted and sidetracked with your calculated ‘outrageous’ outbursts and non sequiturs. And imagine all the new readers that were intrigued by JHK’s post today, only to bail out minutes later upon encountering your incessant horseshit. Here’s to you on your big day, Special Boy! Here’s some chocolate cake from Mar-a-Lago.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 1:22 pm #

            Any posters who are that specious and precious aren’t worth having. Your desire to squelch conversations that you don’t like is noted but not notable: all “liberals” are now like that.

    • PeteAtomic May 14, 2018 at 1:13 pm #

      you don’t need to isolate people like Janos. His arguments are ridiculous. Allow him to defeat himself. That’s how I see him.

      However, a definite red line is when a poster is unwelcome, and is attempting to dig into the interpersonal relationships or workings of another poster’s private family lives, like Janos was doing last week to certain individual(s). You can read the blog for yourself.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:08 pm #

        Some posters share aspect of their personal lives and invite comment. You can read the blog for yourself. Needless to say, I will not be engaging a certain poster in the future. What you are referring to was a grammatical struggle and not what you are implying.

        • PeteAtomic May 14, 2018 at 5:24 pm #

          I think people ought attack arguments & ideas, not the people posting those ideas. Personally I don’t know you Janos, and I wouldn’t argue that you are a ‘depraved fascist’ as someone around here has called you.

          • Elrond Hubbard May 15, 2018 at 5:02 pm #

            That was me, and I’ve been thinking about that. I think ‘toxic fascist’ does him better justice.

        • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 11:43 am #

          Janos

          I have made no such undertaking not to engage with ‘a certain poster’, although it will be a sweet relief not to have you stalking me incessantly to nip at my ankles with irrelevant comments about everything under the sun just for the sake of it. I could almost take it as a compliment, except that it’s just a pain in the arse.

          However, I’d like to make a couple of things clear re ‘personal lives’.

          I know what several people on this site do or have done for a living. I know of one who has a younger wife and a specific number of daughters. I know of others who have been had similar experiences to myself at work. I know of another who has son. I know where people have gone on holiday. I even know about visits to hospital for minor injuries and how much they cost. Etc. etc. I don’t use any of that information to malificent effect.

          If I write a simple sentence that says ‘my husband and I are not the same, but we are equal’ (which is what started you off on your ridiculous ankle-nipping spree the other day), I am not giving you any particular information regarding my personal life – I am making a light and rather obvious philosophical point, which you are at liberty to agree with or not.

          Likewise if I mention that I have two daughters who are from an identical gene pool, but who are very different in intellectual gifts, yet essentially equal, I am making a point about equality, not inviting you to share any particularly intimate knowledge about two young women whom, thankfully, you will never meet.

          You also happen to know that one of them has a young child. That is not particularly ‘personal’ information – there has been the odd mention of the existence of grandchildren elsewhere on the site, and people referring to themselves as grandmas or granddads.

          However, what you don’t seem to get are boundaries, manners and nuance.

          Hence, I can take your comment that my sporty daughter in Singapore ‘sounds like fun’, with attendant fluff about you and she meeting up etc. in the lighthearted and nonsensical manner in which I assume it was intended. No offence taken, whatsoever.

          But, when you ask, regarding my daughters ‘are they black?’ for malificent effect, or take it upon yourself to make such comments as ‘And where’s the father? I hope she didn’t just go and have a child without a husband, because such women are despicable’ or words to that effect, you are so far beyond understanding what is acceptable that you need some sort of remedial class in manners.

          I hope I have met with your requirements on writing clarity.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 12:53 pm #

            I wasn’t talking about you. Sorry. Go to the top of the page to see the poster who conflates debate with getting someone kicked off the site. Most Liberals at least go thru the motions of pretending to debate – arguing in other words – before they go for the gold.

            Last term I was simply amazed at your lack of written clarity, all the more so since you said you do it for a living and I knew you could do better. So I tried without success to get a rewrite. For that, must I be crucified upon a cross of gold (William Jennings Bryant)? Or will a splintery old couple of beams do?

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 2:59 pm #

            Janos

            Apologies for misunderstanding the allusion to ‘a certain poster’ – obviously it was a case where guesswork was the only option.

            My ‘lack of written clarity’ was, I’m afraid, your lack of reading comprehension. But it’s really not worth arguing about and this is not the place. The really weird sentence you managed to produce spoke for itself.

            I do not write for a living. Or even edit for a living. ‘We’ have academics and experienced medical and surgical people of the first order to do the former and freelancers paid less than me to do the latter. Although I do occasionally stoop to correct or query the odd mistake or unclear statement that jumps out at me.

            I will not bore you with the details of my actual function as I’ve mentioned it before and it’s of no interest to anyone.

  19. janet May 14, 2018 at 11:15 am #

    Iran has learned from North Korea. Trump is giving North Korea respect,,, after North Korea threatened the US with a nuclear attack.

    Trump has now opened the door for Iran to do the same. Iran now has permission to tear up the Obama deal and go forward with nuclear weapon development.

  20. volodya May 14, 2018 at 11:15 am #

    Iran has been an imperial pain-in-the-ass for going on three millennia as our esteemed host has previously pointed out. It’s in their civilizational DNA. Maybe what we have here is Mark Twain’s rhyming conception of history. Or, with Trump on stage, maybe we get the Marxian version with history re-written this time as farce.

    But even if Trump was as canny as LBJ, even if he could cook up rhetoric for the ages like the Gettysburg Address, the swamp he talks about draining makes the one outside Mordor look like a road-side ditch. The all-devouring crocodilians lurking in the Washington version are monstrous, they have their turf, they are jealous of their prerogatives, and woe betide any mere politician who jostles them.

    Maybe the Iran nuclear deal slows down the Iranians but it wouldn’t stop them. It might not even slow them down. This religious rivalry is just the latest dusting of animosity on a layer cake of hate that’s millennia deep. And all this deal does is give a fig-leaf of cover to the US to ignore the Middle East for a while as it tries to shore up its deteriorating status as shot-caller further east.

    Still there’s the question, will we be treated to the spectacle of another Middle East war, maybe one with the added zest of radioactive fallout? Given the predisposition of the Swamp-mired Deep State to fuck things up, I give it decent odds.

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 11:21 am #

      It’s in their civilizational DNA

      I am afraid that if we start testing for pain-in-the-ass gene, you, Volodya, may be mighty surprised with results.

    • akmofo May 15, 2018 at 8:32 am #

      When fat man saw Trump means business in Iran, he understood the same applies to him and his. The results are what they are.

  21. bukowskisghost May 14, 2018 at 11:20 am #

    Oh, I forgot to mention the particular screen name of this sicko. He calls himself janos… probably was one of those obnoxious kids who was beat up on the playground every day

    • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 11:33 am #

      Screen name come and go. He used to go by Vlad you know. Professional trolls can have multiple identities and on rare occasions the identity of a real person can be spoofed to destroy trust between real people. That requires serious intervention but having an inconsistent post here and there can really screw up trust so there is a big payoff. Fortunately special circumstances have to justify this larger intrusion. Better in that case for them if they put up a man in the middle and give you a private show. That way nobody knows, not even you.

      • K-Dog May 14, 2018 at 11:36 am #

        Note, only the government has the ability for really deep interventions.

        • pequiste May 14, 2018 at 7:05 pm #

          Don’t kid yourself K-Dog; many gigantic globe-girdling corporations have the resources, and the will-to-power, that permit them to also engage in really deep interventions.

      • sophia May 14, 2018 at 9:43 pm #

        What i’d like to know is who y’all think is motivated to pay him?

        • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 12:59 pm #

          I’ve been trying without success to get an answer to that. The wealthy, almost without exception, turned against their own Race. White Nationalists are the niggers now. No one is funding us, believe me. I mean if the Elite want to cause chaos, they fund the Left. the Minorities, the Anarchists, and the Antifa whose specific messages also contributes to where the Elite want to go. Why would they fund people who favor a return to ethnically homogenous nations, their worst fear?

    • Sean Coleman May 14, 2018 at 12:08 pm #

      Yeah, they should beat up all the obnoxious kids, but I think in real life they are the ones who dish it out.

      I disagree with your call for censorship.

      • Sean Coleman May 14, 2018 at 12:14 pm #

        As for trolls, for what it is worth, in my experience one of the biggest problems on internet discussion forums are the mentally ill, specifically manic depressives who post under multiple identities and are so anxious to take others in.

        The other is the online pc mob, of course.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:20 pm #

        Thank you, sir.

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:18 pm #

      Why the rage? Because I posted the abstract of a McGill sociological study that showed that that Ethnocentrism will triumph over Liberalism, and thus the West is doomed unless it changes course.

      Debate is one thing, like a boxing match with rules. Argument is another, more like a brawl with no rules. And trying to get someone banned or silenced is akin to a gang beat down or lynching. Liberalism on display.

      • Tate May 14, 2018 at 11:29 pm #

        Churchy la femme, Janos. This all started with a woman’s bawling. That’s when hysteria takes over.

        • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 2:40 am #

          Very funny stuff. Like a beginner’s judo class where one judoka tries to throw another and ends up throwing themselves only – with the other still upright.

          Or the would be leader of a torch light mob setting themselves on fire with their own torch ere barely begun and having to run home with their clothes in tatters.

  22. uslabor May 14, 2018 at 11:30 am #

    No mention of the “Chosen Peoples” role in this hot mess.

    • Tate May 14, 2018 at 3:10 pm #

      When the Chosenites start a business, they don’t do the manual labor. They hire grunts to do the actual dirty work. That’s shmart.

      • Tate May 16, 2018 at 3:39 pm #

        They call their grunt labor, ‘shabbos goyim’ (shabbos goy singular.)

        But they don’t hire the U.S. to do anything. The U.S. pays them for doing what they would do ordinarily free-of-charge. That’s super-shmart..

  23. Cavepainter May 14, 2018 at 11:47 am #

    Please folks, without getting into lab descriptive nomenclature it can be said that within population spread there is predictable ratio of predispositions programmed into our species by the rigors of survival through evolutionary time. Its a formulation not aimed at all surviving but a hedge that in the inevitable competition for survival those that end as winners will have prevailed by a exploiting whichever “predisposition (s)” most advantageous in the game. Utopian ideologies tend to become doctrine of reassurance displacing objective analysis of empirical evidence. What I’m saying is that all the Utopian “isms” aimed at achieving the “perfect world” heralded by today’s political Left is pure nostrum which I refer to as “secular rapture”.

    • Sean Coleman May 14, 2018 at 12:05 pm #

      I see that my comment, that I have just posted below), echoes your own.

      • Tate May 14, 2018 at 1:24 pm #

        Um, how so? Cavepainter’s describes a universal truth about the human condition, while yours not so much.

        • Sean Coleman May 15, 2018 at 7:10 am #

          Cavepainter’s post contains four sentences, the last of which expresses as similar view as mine.

          I don’t think I agree with his (or her) first sentence as I have never accepted the idea of chance natural selection (and probably never will).

          I don’t understand the second sentence but I disagree with it if it means what I think it does, for the above reason obviously.

          The third sentence makes semantic sense and its meaning is somewhat clearer. I have never thought of utopian ideologies as offering reassurance but it can be argued. But what he says about utopianism (a word I had meant to include in my own post) displacing objective analysis of empirical evidence echoes in a surprisingly strong way what I wrote about all of these fantasies (which is what utopianism is). I said that they are all easily disproved by the evidence. I have often listed here such evidence-free fantasies, from abuse rings to AGW, from the myth of white racism to that of Franco. If you look at the evidence for any of these tall stories the penny cannot but fall. But people won’t look. I think it is because the fantasy is too powerful (and perhaps they fear losing ‘reassurance’, to use Cavepainter’s word).

          I don’t believe there has ever been, or ever will be, objective analysis of empirical evidence, though that does not stop us from trying to get there. Webster (I quoted him only except for the first one, by Peter Hitchens) argued that the belief that irrationality has been conquered is what makes the modern age uniquely dangerous.

          Finally, while the utopianism and the fantasizing may well be a new thing historically, being tied up with the Enlightenment, I am (or at least believe I am) dealing with universally applicable psychological truth.

          An example: Peter Hitchens started a campaign to clear the memory of Anglican Bishop George Bell, who spoke out strongly in the House of Lords against the bombing of Germany, and whose memory had been sullied by an ancient, anonymous accusation of child abuse. (The accuser, ‘Carol’, used this hilarious cliché in a newspaper interview: “He said it would be our little secret because God loved me.”) I have sometimes commented on his blog that this accusation must be looked at in the context of the Savile story, as well as all the others, because there is a general point to be made here. He said, however, that he is concerned with Bell alone and is not trying to make a general (or ‘universal’) point.

          • Tate May 15, 2018 at 11:01 am #

            Thanks, I’ll have to re-read.

          • Tate May 15, 2018 at 12:21 pm #

            Well, we can ask Cavepainter what he means, but I read it this way: the first & second sentences are of a piece in accordance with theory of natural selection. More on that below.

            Utopian ideologies tend to become doctrine of reassurance displacing objective analysis of empirical evidence.

            What I think this means — following his first two sentences — is that ideology provides a ready-made framework or “off-the-shelf” solution to one’s innate predispositions. At the same time there will be predictable psychological discomfort because one’s real-world experience (empirical evidence) will tend to invalidate at times one’s adopted ideology. Reassurance is achieved through several mechanisms. Through appeal to authority, through consensus-building, through active suppression of competing ideas. I have no training in psychology, bear in mind so take what I’m saying with whatever degree of skepticism you like.

            The last sentence is mixed metaphor likening an “ism” to a patent medicine (a nostrum, panacea, or generic off-the-shelf product) but also a religious holistic experience, a “secular rapture”. This is in keeping with our mass-market age. Until fairly recently historically, the common people had no choice of ideologies. Think of it as a consumer market, introducing competing products to what only the Church offered in the past.

            As far as theory of natural selection & evolution, I’m Christian and therefore skeptical but at the same time have to admit that theory of evolution is coherent & cohesive within the body of evidence that’s been assembled over the last 200 odd years and natural selection explains the mechanism at work, at least Darwinian evolution. Lamarckian evolution — once discredited — appears to be another mechanism in play (epigenetics).

            There are other ways of addressing the problem of conflict with Biblical truth. I won’t go into it further here.

            I don’t know much about the controversies you have mentioned with pedophilia, except that I did read something about Jimmy Savile a couple of years ago that made me seriously question the prevailing narrative.

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 1:05 pm #

            “There are other ways of addressing the problem of conflict with Biblical truth.”

            Indeed there are, Tate, but they mostly involve ‘reassurance displacing objective analysis of empirical evidence’. Which they would have to, rather, wouldn’t they?

          • Tate May 15, 2018 at 2:38 pm #

            What’s your point?

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 3:00 pm #

            Is that the best you can do?

          • Tate May 15, 2018 at 3:55 pm #

            You’re especially aggressive today.

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 4:49 pm #

            That’s funny, Tate. It’s the kind of response Janos would call ‘feminine’.

          • Sean Coleman May 15, 2018 at 5:12 pm #

            Tate, very good summary. That is more or less what I took it to mean too (except the analogy about competing theories in a consumer market). I don’t see the utopian fantasy as offering reassurance so much as an alternative faith (which is what many people, including probably yourself and CP, also think). The abuse witch hunts are instructive because they throw into the general utopian insanity into sharpest relief. You can identify certain elements common to all mass fantasies or witch hunts, including deceit, censorship and the rest.

          • Tate May 15, 2018 at 5:48 pm #

            Thank you Sean.

            And to Alba, I started to write something here about the masculine/feminine sides of our psyches but I won’t indulge you on that score. It’s just horseshit psychologizing.

            To address your comment you forgot the first part of CP’s. Here is the quote in full: “Utopian ideologies tend to become doctrine of reassurance displacing objective analysis of empirical evidence.”

            Utopian ideologies: heaven-on-earth, socially disruptive, dangerous, unobtainable.

            Religious belief: Heaven full-stop, socially stabilizing, obtainable, even on earth (although I realize you disagree).

            So you don’t believe in any Higher Power? You can’t even make the effort?

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 9:34 pm #

            You’re getting into it too deeply, Tate. I was just mildly amused to think how you’d have reacted if I’d been the one to say, for want of a meaningful response, ‘You’re especially aggressive today’.

            You asked what my point was. My point was clear.

            I’m not a Utopian, just because your frame of reference is limited. Religions also displace objective analysis of empirical evidence, so are no different from Utopias in that respect. Many religions grew out of a desire to make people ‘better’, just as Utopias do, but, in the case of Christianity, for example, with some serious carrot and some pretty unambiguous stick.

            “So you don’t believe in any Higher Power? You can’t even
            make the effort?”

            Make the effort to believe in something? What does that even mean?

            “Alice laughed: “There’s no use trying,” she said; “one can’t
            believe impossible things.”

            “I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen.
            When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day.
            Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible
            things before breakfast.”

            I believed for the greater part of my life.

            I don’t despise your beliefs. But I don’t have a great deal of respect for people who regard other people’s views as ‘fantasy’ (not all religious people on this site do that) but have an over-arching belief themselves in something for which there is not the slightest evidence.

            I have plenty of empathy for people with religious beliefs that enhance their feeling of service to their fellow humans and their pursuit of peace. I don’t have any empathy for any other kind. And certainly not where they lead to bigotry.

            I know perfectly well that religion *can* provide social stability. But you should have visited Northern Ireland in the 70s to get a flavour of what religion can do.

            Show me all the people who believe in a religion they weren’t brought up as a child to believe in, compared to the ones who just believe what they were told, then we can discuss the matter of ‘effort’ more seriously.

          • Tate May 16, 2018 at 10:48 am #

            But I return to my original question: ‘What’s your point?’ Did you think I was oblivious to that? Of course I know that that same psychology is at work with religious belief. It doesn’t change anything. We’re not gods. We operate under the same conditions as we always have. There’s no New Age. It’s a danger to think that and to think we can perfect the world. Of course some reforms can be tried and have to be but the pathologies of the 20th century were the result of thinking that a key had been found to perfect the world.

          • GreenAlba May 16, 2018 at 11:30 am #

            Tate, I don’t think there’s a New Age. I don’t believe in the inevitability of human progress (anything but), so I’m not a ‘progressive’, for example, although I see no fault in anyone trying to genuinely improve life for people on an ad hoc basis.

            But there are one or two people on here who like to think that post-enlightenment horrors are something that people of opposing views somehow haven’t thought about. Because some people love the idea that they’re the only ones who’ve noticed some eternal truth while the sheeple go for this fad or that.

            I’m not the ‘liberal intelligentsia’, BTW – I’m not anyone’s intelligentsia, so I’m not defending them, whoever they are, or taking the flak for them either.

            Soviet communism, Maoism and Fascism were worldviews involving assumed certainties, in a very similar way to their metaphysical counterparts. To keep suggesting people generally don’t know this is tedious and patronising. I’ve read the Gulag Archipelago too – it was all the rage when I was a student, along with Cancer Ward and One Day in the Life…

            You might find that those who’ve ‘believed’ and then not ‘believed’, rather than just sticking with the beliefs they inherited along with the colour of their eyes, are those who’ve thought most about a whole lot of things, especially those who have most to lose psychologically by letting go of those beliefs later in life just before the jackpot’s due.

            Here’s another not-too-deep theory (I’m no genius). I read a lot of M. Scott Peck’s books a long time ago (he was in some ways a different version of Jordan Peterson back in the day).

            He had this theory/observation that we humans hate most in other people the faults that mirror our own, only without realising it.

            So, for example, a person who has an over-arching belief in something about which there is absolutely no evidence might be exactly the one most inclined to go on and on about other people’s entirely different views which he or she considers, sometimes obsessively, to be based on fantasy and not diligent research of the facts.

            And here’s a very hoi-polloi-ish view of what might be a decent way to approach life’s struggles, if I may be permitted such a culturally prole-ish example.

            Decades ago I watched an episode of Cagney and Lacey (I did warn you about the sublime and ridiculous here) where they were discussing their jobs. Lacey declined to give a morally grandiose reason for following her profession, like a need to ‘save the world’ or ‘make a difference’. Instead, she said she did it just to keep the layers of crud from getting any thicker.

            There’s a lot to be said for that as a ‘philosophy’, in the absence of New Ages.

    • JohnAZ May 14, 2018 at 12:41 pm #

      CP

      Wow. Good Analysis. Your predispositions are IMO, power drives and ethnocentrism combining to be us vs. them. Another name Original Sin for the Judeo-Christian-Islam group.

      Imagine the US with our competition going on between “whites” and people of color. Utopian dreamers say that eliminating all the “whites” would create the perfect world. Something happens and all the white European types die from some disease. Utopia prevails, right? Ha! Fighting would immediately start between the next level, maybe Latinos and Blacks ( hint:this is already happening.). Then if that got resolved, the next level would start. Ad infinitum. The “evil” forces of humanity are built in. For those of us who believe, God has provided ways to try to control the tendencies (Good) but unfortunately it does not work very well.

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:22 pm #

      Yes, PC is a secular religion – with MANY of the elements of Christianity retained in a hidden form. One is reminded of how the African slaves retained their native religion under the rubrics of Catholicism.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:44 pm #

        Of course bid differences too. The Africans were consciously trying tor retain something they valued. The White Liberals despise Christianity by and large, only retaining its structure unconsciously. Or when conscious, utterly transforming it into its opposite. Christ said, My Kingdom is not of this world. Liberals say it is and we can create it ourselves without Him.

  24. Sean Coleman May 14, 2018 at 12:03 pm #

    “The theory, I think is that religious maniacs are always and everywhere more dangerous than secular maniacs and, if we could only get rid of these apocalyptic whack-jobs, a country like Iran might be made a ‘normal’ nation again.”

    Eleven years ago Peter Hitchens kept a diary of his visit to Iran.

    hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2007/04/during_my_ten_d.html

    Discussing an especially fervent religious ritual:

    “People in our rational world try to ignore the force of such illogical passions. But they exist, and it is foolish to pretend they do not. If we try to stamp them out, or pretend that such feelings no longer exist, we may well find that they simply reappear in another – and perhaps more dangerous guise.”

    Richard Webster (Sceptical Essays website) “How our demons fuel witch-hunts”

    “The story of what happened to Dawn Reed and Chris Lillie is so bizarre that it might seem to be without parallel. It would be reassuring to dismiss Shieldfield as a terrible aberration. But that would be to replace one delusion by another…

    “It may well be that in the fantasy world in which so many people tend to live – the world where men and women always behave rationally and where superstitions and delusions have been banished by the onward march of science – events such as those that took place at Shieldfield do not happen. But in the real world, where fantasy remains one of the most powerful forces in human history, such events are all too common.

    “It is no coincidence that two key members of the Shieldfield Review Team have both been believers in satanic ritual abuse. Judith Jones was the social worker at the centre of the 1989 Nottingham satanic abuse case. Astonishingly, Newcastle City Council nevertheless appointed her to the Review Team. Meanwhile, clinical psychologist Jacqui Saradjian has written of satanic cults where ‘children were caged, hung, chained, whipped, burnt, tortured, drowned, buried alive, and strapped to inverted crosses and assaulted’…

    “Why is it that, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we appear still to be so susceptible to such fantasies? Are we, the very midst of our rationalism, still witch-hunters at heart?”

    Webster’s theory was that these fantasies are essentially Christian.

    “When, in the late 1970s and the 1980s, social workers in California – and later in Britain – allowed themselves to be gripped by the belief that young children were falling victim to systematic sexual abuse by organised satanic cults, we actually revived the demonological fantasy which lay at the heart of the Great European Witch-hunt. It was this fantasy which many highly intelligent and sophisticated people, including Judith Jones, embraced as a reality.”

    Elsewhere Webster discusses the profound effects of the seventeenth century Puritan revolution on British (and presumably by extension American) culture. While the enduring recurrence of many of the motifs (including the existence of secret rings and societies) and the odd fact that educated people with responsible positions are among those most eager to believe the nonsense, supports his thesis I do not believe it holds, for the simple reason that the unreason is much wider. (This can be shown by the simple means of asking for evidence to back up the endless foolish claims.) The abuse witch hunts are valuable because they are the most obvious examples, but the unreason seems to have permeated all areas. Mr Kunstler attributes this particular fantasy, of bringing democracy and happiness to a backward country, to the Neocons. I am not sure who they are but as their crude vision is shared by the Left, I assume they are not fundamentally different from them.

    Elsewhere Webster (eg in his two-part essay on Flat Earth News) describes the present situation as particularly dangerous because of the belief that in this rational age the world has outgrown all of this. I agree. It is a hilarious spectacle.

    • ozone May 15, 2018 at 10:46 am #

      “Mr Kunstler attributes this particular fantasy, of bringing democracy and happiness to a backward country, to the Neocons. I am not sure who they are but as their crude vision is shared by the Left, I assume they are not fundamentally different from them.”

      I’m not too sure how you’ve accomplished this leap from the body of your essay to “Neocons = Duh Left”.
      The Neocons cleave to no specific ideology but their own: Subjugation and dominance of the world entire under Corporate Totalitarianism (your basic, capital F, Fascism).

      “The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy.
      1.”Everything in the state”. The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.
      2.”Nothing outside the state”. The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.
      3.”Nothing against the state”. Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.
      The use of militarism was implied only as a means to accomplish one of the three above principles, mainly to keep the people and rest of the world in line. Fascist countries are known for their harmony and lack of internal strife. There are no conflicting parties or elections in fascist countries.”

      The Neocons always insinuate themselves into whichever color of the political spectrum is currently in power, and work covertly to make sure that inroads are made into “the out group”, just to make sure all avenues are covered. Currently, it’s the supposed Right of the Trumpeters; John Bolton is the light-of-day frontman and brazen hubris rules the rhetoric.

      This too shall pass, but only after their “program” has been truly implemented worldwide (they will not stop until it’s in place), and the environment suitable for human habitation has been mostly wrecked for the extraction of resources. (For the ironclad necessity of Growth, don’cha know.) Only after massive depredation and deprivation will they finally be rooted out — if there’s anyone that remains having the awareness of this suicidal cult to do the rooting. Mark me, the destabilization of the world is well underway and will continue by all means, “fair or foul”. (The neocon version of “fair” is a horrid image to begin with.) The flies in the ointment are China and Russia, so we’ll see how the struggle plays out; will the the neocons back off to regroup after the Trump “failures”, or double down and try to drag the world to a war that will make WW2 look like a civilized exchange of “ideas”?

      • Tate May 15, 2018 at 12:34 pm #

        You forgot to mention the background of the Neoconservatives. Their founding members are primarily Jewish in ethnic origin and before they adopted the label “Neoconservative,” they were Trotskyist.

        • ozone May 15, 2018 at 1:01 pm #

          You seem to believe it’s their stripe that’s the trouble. (“They once were COMMIES!”, he shrieked.) That muddies the waters and distracts from the issue.
          I think it’s their *agenda*; any goddamn [extremely] wealthy, megalomaniac shithead can join the club, as long as they’re “right-thinking”. Their agenda is backed and supported by the CFR and those who flit and flutter to the Davos influence-trading bacchanal (whether they’re aware of it or not).

          Nope, they’re not COMMIES (he shrieked), they’re FASCISTS.

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 1:15 pm #

            Nice bit of clear thinking there, ozone. The stripey obsessions are tedious.

          • Tate May 15, 2018 at 2:59 pm #

            Wow, talk about touching a nerve. I just thought Sean should know about that and interesting that you left it out.

            And it would seem that there is a historical thread running through all of this. Stalin referred to the Jews as “rootless cosmopolitans” I believe, didn’t he? Trotsky was Jewish, was he not? His beef with Stalin was the issue of carrying the Revolution out onto the international stage, was it not? Isn’t that essentially what Trotskyism is, considered as a flavor of communism? Is it irrelevant to mention any of this in the context of the origin of the Neocons?

            My views are not cast in stone. Fill in me in. I’m eager to learn more about all of this. If you think I’m saying that Neoconservatism is just a facade or mask hiding another agenda, then No, I don’t believe that.

          • ozone May 15, 2018 at 10:38 pm #

            Tate,
            They’re amoral rabid Zionists who wish to purge Muslims from the Middle East (firstly), and they’ll use any color of political mantle to clothe themselves as long as it serves their purpose.

            If you wish to use the fact that those duplicitous Neo-conservaturds are Jews to paint all Jews with that horrific brush, go ahead, but I’ll decline from joining you, thanks all the same. From their beginning, they’ve covered themselves in the humble beneficence of traditional Jewry, but that was simply a confidence game. Since their victory over our political machinery, no such hiding is required. Their views are imprinted on any actor pretending to diplomacy in foreign affairs. Nicki “Hellbent” Haley comes to mind, shortly after the notorious fixer and bagman, Colin Powell, Waggler of the Vial.

            I must say that those who protect, promote and support them, I have absolutely no use for. I believe them to be in the grip of a dark and suicidal fantasy that bodes ill for all humanity. Most unfortunately, that would include about 50 million American “Christians United for Israel”. (Not an insubstantial political bloc.) Just another shining example for my abhorrence of organized dominionist religions.

          • Tate May 16, 2018 at 11:09 am #

            I take jibes at the jews like I do everyone else that’s not my group. I even dislike my group at times. We WASPs have our warts too.

            Just a reminder because I know you know this already. The problems of the world are going to take care of themselves without any effort on our part. Especially in the Middle East, it’s all too obvious that people & nations act as they have always acted. I haven’t any clue how that’s going to turn out but I’m not going to let it keep me awake at night.

            Like you, I have a special ‘warm’ place in my heart for the “Christians United for Israel” & pastor Agee. Even though I am a Christian, I think we should f*cking stay out of it. I’ve said this before here, Any attempt to hasten the millennium is just stupid.

      • Sean Coleman May 16, 2018 at 8:04 am #

        Ozone

        My leap in identifying the Neocons with the Left.

        First of all, the term Neocon is a fair description of a recognized school of thought (and perhaps body of interests). As far as I know, that is, because I really know very little about them.

        In reading Peter Hitchens’s book The Cameron Delusion again I noticed the other night that he employs the terminology, and he is very particular. He was discussing the Iraq War and how a number of prominent Leftists (such as Nick Cohen of the Observer) joined a number of their former arch-enemies from the right in supporting the invasion. Cohen had been showing signs of disillusion with his own side, mainly I think over the doctrinaire comprehensive schools policy banning selection by academic ability (in fact there is little difference between Labour and Tory in this crucial issue), and Hitchens thought he was close to abandoning the Left, but he was derailed by Iraq and the prospect of taking on ‘Islamofascism’.

        Simlarly formerly staunch conservative (with a small ‘c’: social conservative) figures such as Charles Moore abandoned their huge differences with ‘New Labour’ and joined the likes of Cohen in the same crusade.

        That’s Hitchens. For my part I can see the differences in material interests between the Neocons and the egalitarian redistributive Left. However I think the significance of these differences is exaggerated. There appears to be a big overlap between them in their rejection of tried and trusted, inherited attitudes and their belief in utopian (that is, unrealistic, if not insane) projects. I expect millionaire businessmen, for example, to get down with the cause (whichever it is) and ’embrace’ the usual radical nonsense in the same way that I expect to find outspoken left-wing firebrands living expensive lifestyles and expressing contempt for the untouchables (or whatever the word was Hillary had for Trump’s voters).

        The dominant fantasy is clearly the Left’s and I call it pc for want of another term. Nevertheless, the belief in the magical powers of an untrammelled free market (the Thatcher govt’s experiment in monetarism, controlling M1, M2 or whatever, resembled a weird foray into alchemy for example) strikes me as as irrational as the belief that biological gender can be overridden or the belief that a micro-regulating Euro superstate can prosper. And that is the important thing for me, the irrationality of these beliefs.

        This is what I mean by fantasy. A fantasy can be easily punctured by referring to the evidence. The media are part of the fantasy and you have to do a little bit of your own digging to get to the evidence. A good example is Colin Flaherty, whose books and videos prove beyond any doubt that black violence is wildly out of proportion. Yet the media, by ignoring or twisting the evidence, paints a picture where the blacks are subject to incessant discrimination and (laughably) violence.

  25. meargen May 14, 2018 at 12:06 pm #

    As the National Lampoon said in 1980 ‘I ran, you ran, we all ran from Ir-an.’

    Writing a memoir of that time (and the 70’s were pretty ghastly in retrospect) at the failure of ‘Operation Eagle Claw’ to rescue the hostages, I wrote: ‘it seems like America is stuck in an endless Road Runner cartoon where we’re Wiley Coyote, and Iran keeps coming up and going ‘meep-meep!’ to us as something else falls down on our anxious eyes.’

    Maybe all of this is a way to get even, that somehow, we’ve just got to show them, and Israel is very happy to feed that resentment in their plans to stay king of the hill.

    Yeah, that all the Iranians are groaning under the mullah’s rule…it’s not a happy place in many ways, but most Iranians seem satisfied. As some have said, the more America tries to force its way, the more intransigent the reactionaries in Iran will be.

    I also remember in the 70’s, there were Soldier of Fortune types along with Cubans in Florida urging we attack Cuba. Now. Invade, because MILLIONS of Cubans are suffering, waiting for America to rescue them. ‘Where are the Americans,’ the people say, ‘why don’t they come?’

    As a Mexican friend of mine said, ‘you gringos hate Castro because he stood up to you. He insulted you, and you will will never forgive that.’ I feel the same about Iran. They really told us to F—off, and NO ONE does that to the greatest democracy in the history of the world.

    I’m not as hate Trump as most of you are, but the Iran deal wasn’t that great for us, nor did I like us sending bundles of cash in US military aircraft to Iran, and as Rush says, there never really was a deal. I think it’s unwise to provoke Iran, and they want to build a bomb, they’ll do it…probably to protect themselves from us. I’m always wondering why we never dump on Israel for their having the bomb…which they stole from us by their espionage…but I forget, they’re the gallant little ally whom we must to defer to at all costs…or else. Sort of like Britain in 1914 going to defend ‘little Belgium’ and ‘little Servis.’ when I see Netanyahu, I see a bully.

    As for Trump, he’s just keeping his campaign promises…bad or good, he is doing what he said he would do.

    I just the damned war in Syria would end. It would be so nice to see bulldozers rebuilding, and everyone working together.

    • San Jose May 14, 2018 at 1:58 pm #

      “I ran, you ran, we all ran from I-ran.” I remember too, a spoof of the Beach Boy’s hit, “Barbara Ann.”

      Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.
      Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.
      Oh bomb Iran, please take my hand,
      Let’s bomb Iran…….

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:47 pm #

      And the deal was just returning their money to them, but no one is allowed to say or know that on the Right.

  26. mow May 14, 2018 at 12:07 pm #

    I miss watching Ted Koppels’ toupee moving around during nightline.

  27. Walter B May 14, 2018 at 12:25 pm #

    Well Jim, the Obama deal was done with pallet loads of US cash, not digital currency you know. Anyone that is not critically naïve understands why that was and what it means. Cash deals are dirty deals and the piles are neatly split up amongst the players, ALL of them. I believe there were also some narcotics deals in that mix, so for my money, undoing it was clearly the way to go. If there is ever a “new” deal it might include some very entertaining disclosure, I assure you.

    Yes American foreign policy consists of dealing out and creating Chaos. Chaos is their friend for it provides many, many enemies that can be fought at profit and it keeps those that are being “chaosed” from realizing who the real enemy is, US(A) or at least organizing to fight it. Obama was pretty good at engineering Chaos here at home, and the progressives are still carrying that banner, though it seems to have calmed down a bit. Let us see how the Summer goes, for it always peaks then doesn’t it?

    Bon viver!

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:49 pm #

      Oh yeah. The Iranians are threatening to name the names of the Liberals who got kickbacks when they returned the frozen Iranian funds. Hard Ball!

    • PeteAtomic May 16, 2018 at 7:33 pm #

      yeah, I wonder if had to do with Iran’s involvement in Iraq, maybe dealing with particular oil conglomerates, etc.

      Do you think the narcotics part of the deal is about Afghanistan?

      • Walter B May 17, 2018 at 10:34 am #

        I don’t know, maybe it is in addition to the Afghanistan supply. We know that our soldiers protect the poppy crop and guard delivery of the product for shipment back to the States. Perhaps the Iranians are growing them as well and combining theirs with that which we get from the Afghans. Some of the crop is given to Big Pharma and some goes for the production of Smack, for in the end both sources of “painkillers” give those who rule almost total control over the masses. When you control their pain, you control the people and the number one task of every government in the World is to control its own population before it does anything else.

  28. SomeoneInAsia May 14, 2018 at 12:32 pm #

    From what I read, in history Iran (formerly Persia) originally WASN’T Muslim. Her national religion was Zoroastrianism. Islam was FORCED upon her by hostile invaders. The Qajar Dynasty (1794 – 1925) also saw yet further exploitation of Iranians. And finally Chris Hedges also tells us that ‘Iran Had a Democracy Before We Took It Away’ (Hedges, THE WORLD AS IT IS, page 232). The Iranians have actually been historically a very tragic people.

    I’m not trying here to portray Iran as an angel and the West as a devil; I just want to enable us to form a somewhat more balanced picture of the whole situation by presenting a couple facts.

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 12:45 pm #

      The topic of US relations with Iran goes very deep first because Iran represents at least two world religions: Islam and Zoroastrianism.

      And the US is founded by Freemasons, who are distant descendants of Zoroastrians. No comments necessary.

      I will only note that everything that the media and most of people say about this topic is simply not true.

      To begin with, the book of Esther does not tell us about the conflict between the Aryans and the Jews, it talks about the providential, everlasting friendship of the religious Jews with the Aryans (Zoroastrians) against the common enemy Amalek(Satanist).

      And this is written in plain text in the Bible, including that the first Messiah (the savior of the Jewish people) became great leader of the Aryans, the Persian (Iranian) Tsar Cyrus the Great, Zoroastrian by his religious affiliation.

      As you can see everything is exactly upside down, and one can only regret that the great many people write about it without reading the Book of Esther.

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:51 pm #

      Yes, Julian the Apostate, the last hope of the Pagans against Christianity, died fighting the Persians. His last words were, “You have triumphed, O White Christ.”

  29. capt spaulding May 14, 2018 at 12:32 pm #

    We can’t keep our own house in order, so why would anybody expect us to do any better with the rest of the world? Everybody’s arguing while the big boot of climate change is winding up & preparing to show us why these petty disturbances really amount to nothing. I’ll bet you don’t find that many people in Texas or Puerto Rico immersed in the problems of the Middle East at present.

  30. marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 12:47 pm #

    No mention of the other elephant in the tent Jim? Rev. Robert Jeffress speaking at the opening of the American Embassy in Jerusalem: nydailynews.com/news/world/pastor-jews-hell-jersualem-embassy-article-1.3988437 The unholy alliance of radical Christians with radical Zionists continues full force with no mention of the march toward war these people desire.

    Or how bout the theft of nuclear technology from the US that led to destabilization of the whole ME? No talk to denuclearize the ME as compared to the Korean peninsula ?

    Iran as equivalent to the US as the cause of failed States in the ME? Please, not even close. Iran prevented failed States in Syria and Lebanon. The US enforced and embargo on Yemen causing the deaths of thousands of civilians from starvation and diseases.

    Compare all of this to the Iraq blunder and the rise of ISIS as a direct result of that mess and Iran meddling pales in comparison, futhermore isn’t this their neighborhood and not ours? Shouldn’t they have more to say about what goes on on their borders compared to the US?

    • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 4:11 pm #

      The contrast is pretty remarkable: the spectacle of triumphalism at the ceremony marking the U.S. moving its embassy to Jerusalem, versus carnage at the border with Gaza while the IDF massacres impotent protesters by the score. Like a Corleone family baptism, times a thousand.

      Dragons’ teeth were sown today, and the victims and their sympathizers will be looking for retribution for a long time to come. Stay safe, everyone.

      • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 1:25 pm #

        I didn’t think of it in those terms exactly when I saw it, but it was exactly that, as it played out on the News, with the Stepford daughter smiling benificently, intercut with the horror that was going on elsewhere. Like Simon and Garfunkel singing ‘Silent Night’ over the news from Vietnam.

  31. akmofo May 14, 2018 at 12:47 pm #

    To the fellow commie and jihadi sympathiers on this here blog, may I suggest you vote with your feet. You don’t like the US, you like communism, you like jihadism, go and live with the communists and the jihadists.

    In ancient times, a normal community would not suffer you. You would be expelled. I think a similar process should be established today. We have way too tolerant for the sake of being tolerant. If it was up to me, I would give you all what you wish — a one way ticket to any and all commie and jihadi destinations on this here globe. You can kvetch about your depression soaked idiocies over there.

    • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 12:49 pm #

      We have ^become way too tolerant..

  32. Cavepainter May 14, 2018 at 12:57 pm #

    May I once more introduce the theory that societal investment in beliefs contrary to empirical evidence is expression of the human psyche’s inability to accept that destiny is not controllable, so we come up with all these “shaggy god stories” of supernatural forces as “enablers” on our behalf — that is, the earthquake can be prevented (or could have been prevented) conditioned by number of virgins tossed into the volcano. I’m waiting for Gabriel’s trumpet bellow announcing the secular Utopia of all people/cultures equal without any significant contentious differences. College campuses are now the Roman Catholic Church of the 14th Century.

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:53 pm #

      The Church create the Universities and Liberalism has destroyed them. In other words, you have it wrong.

      • Cavepainter May 14, 2018 at 4:38 pm #

        No quite, the process of analytical inquiry launched by Western Culture was cloistered by the Church during the Dark Ages, to then be liberated during the Reconnaissance. It took the Enlightenment to finally fully institutionalize conscious self-criticism.

        • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 6:58 pm #

          They started the Universities and then tried to keep them bound to Aristotle and Catholic teaching in general. It was bound to fail of course.

        • Sean Coleman May 15, 2018 at 9:47 am #

          I think Dr Schmidt had something to say here a few weeks ago about myths of the Renaissance, that it certainly was not a sudden flowering of knowledge and creativity, that it was even rather a period of stagnation. Some academics have argued this point also, and I would be inclined to agree.

          I am very sceptical of the Enlightenment’s role in enabling self-criticism, and getting ever more sceptical as the years pass. How otherwise did we arrive at the current situation of practically zero self-criticism on the part of preachers and moralizers in academia and in the media? French writer Marion Sigaut has done a great job in discrediting Voltaire. I don’t know how far I can trust her judgement (she believes in vast child-abuse conspiracies, it seems) but I would like to trust her!

  33. FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 12:58 pm #

    Iranian leadership must abandon its plans for extermination of Israel and work on establishing normal diplomatic relationship with the Jewish state.

    Russia is ready to serve as a mediator and a guarantor of that deal and US is welcomed to work toward that goal alongside with Russia.

    As it stands now, Russia is the only player in the ME who have maintains good working relationship with ALL regional players, except for ISIS, of course.

    Kremlin has recognized the Jerusalem as the capital of Israel a full year before Trump did, however avoided theatrics of moving Russian Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem (for now).

    • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 1:09 pm #

      “Iranian leadership must abandon its plans for extermination of Israel and work on establishing normal diplomatic relationship with the Jewish state.” As Israel practices de facto extermination of Palestinians.

      There are many interpretations of Iran’s call for “elimination” of Israel. Show me in English, not some bullshit translation from Farsi, where an Iranian leader said Israelis should be “exterminated.”

      I believe in the elimination of the apartheid Israeli state.

      • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 1:14 pm #

        Just like the apartheid South African State was eliminated. The blacks in Africa had it far better than the Palestinians of today. Unless of course you believe the Palestinians are all “terrorists.” And if you believe that there is not hope for you.

        • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 1:16 pm #

          Believe the propaganda that all Palestinians are “terrorists.”

        • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 3:57 pm #

          And the Blacks were far better off under White rule as they are not competent to maintain an industrial state. Now the creators of South Africa, the Whites, are persecuted as the whole things slides into the mud. But that’s your idea of Justice right? Everybody equal in misery?

      • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 1:15 pm #

        Marcus, you are exercising in sophistry, which is a pornography applied to politics and ideology.

        Don’t drive like my brother! (hm, I mean Hillary Clinton).

        Iran is not just Islam, Iran is Shiite Islam, and it got involved in the Holy War against Israel, claiming leadership in the Islamic Ummah, which has since ceased to exist, and Sunnis in Syria on camera were eating the hearts of still living Shiites, and the militants of the PLO took an active part in this.

        That is, the struggle with Israel for Iran now is a pure inertia of thinking and support for Hezbollah, which appeared in Lebanon and the Gaza Strip thanks to agreements in Oslo, that is, thanks to Hillary Clinton.

        To them to proclaim slogans in the UN is one thing, but to fight with the US or Russia … or to become the object of a preemptive strike by Israel, most likely nuclear, it’s quite another.

        • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 1:18 pm #

          “Sophistry?” No evidence Huh. Just anther propagandist you are, AKA bullshit artist.

          • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 1:23 pm #

            Your phrase there are many interpretations of Iran’s call for “elimination” of Israel is exactly a sophistry.

            There must be NO excuse for any calls to genocide

          • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 1:39 pm #

            If there is a slightest doubt that something has been lost in translation (which I doubt) when the Mullah-in-charge uttered that phrase, than the aforementioned Mullah should have a courtesy of going to the podium and distinctly say – followed by a competent Iranian interpreter repeating in English:

            No, we ARE NOT PLANNING ON EXTERMINATION OF ISRAEL and are ready to work on establishing normal diplomatic relationship with the Jewish State.

        • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 5:32 pm #

          Do you admit then that Israel and America are allied with the Sunni – and thus ISIS?

          Russia has chosen the better part and the better allies (the Shia).

          • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 9:40 pm #

            Janos, ISIS is a completely artificial entity – a product of the US (Western in general) Deep State – or the Black Project.

            See the history of Ishmaelites and Assassins – the Old Man Of the Mountain – Rashid ad-Din Sinan (not to be mixed with FincaOnTheMountain) and their interaction with the Order of Templars during the first Crusades.

            Back then Black Project was almost exclusively comprised of the Templars.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 3:16 am #

            So nothing to do with Islam at all? Not the Old Man either? All of Islam is just a function of Western color projects? That’s about the most insulting view one can have btw: complete lack of autonomy and agency. You are thus Anti-Islamic far more than I am.

  34. marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 1:34 pm #

    Again, show me the evidence of Iran’s call for “extermination.” I align with calls for the elimination of the apartheid state of Israel.

    • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 1:39 pm #

      My belief is that this would be best for the survival of all parties concerned in the mess, Israelis included. End the apartheid state now or suffer the consequences of a people denied their basic human rights as defined by the founders of the US.

      • S M Tenneshaw May 14, 2018 at 3:13 pm #

        Israel is not an apartheid state, and everybody goddamn well knows it. Stop lying.

        • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 5:07 pm #

          I for one don’t know it, thank you — although I don’t call for the elimination of anything (or support those who speak in such extreme terms). When I look at the present-day state of Israel, I find the ‘apartheid’ shoe fits just fine. If you don’t like it, tough.

          marcus1: You’d be right to be sceptical of Zionism, as I am. By origin it’s an ideology that accepted much from 19th-century ‘scientific’ racism and related racialist mysticisms with rather notorious consequences in the 20th century. But elimination is a dangerous thing to call for, and the reasons why should need no explanation. It’s possible to call for a solution that respects the rights of all without raising those kinds of demons. I urge you to consider your words carefully.

          • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 5:35 pm #

            Like that old Partridge Family song, I think I love you. All our fights have been simple misunderstandings. You don’t want to get rid of the Zionists or White Nationalists. What did your Mao say? Let a thousand flowers bloom.

          • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 5:41 pm #

            There is a big difference between extermination of a people and elimination or annihilation of a state. Khamenei’s statement explained from the horses mouth:

            slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/11/09/iran_s_khamenei_israel_must_be_annihilated.html

            And I stand by my statement that the use of the word “extermination” is a inflammatory, dog whistle statement.

            While Iran talks, Israel and the US in actuality move to eliminate States while people squeal about rhetoric. Amazing.

          • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 10:40 pm #

            marcus1, you’re right that calling for extermination is inflammatory. I’d add that it’s hard (for me, at least) to imagine that word qualifying as a covert ‘dog whistle’ — it’s quite plain in its inflammatory meaning, there’s nothing covert about it.

            But elimination and annihilation are just about equally inflammatory. Communication isn’t one-sided. A speaker has to take some responsibility for how their words will be received by people who are making up their own minds. So if you’re hanging your hat on the fact that you’re calling for elimination or annihilation ‘of a state’ and not ‘of a people’, good luck with that, but you’ll get crucified anyway.

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 1:41 pm #

      Your “evidence” is reluctance of the Mullah-in-charge to correct the “mistake in translation” if it has been made.

  35. FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 1:45 pm #

    I mean, fuck the Iranians, for crying out loud.

    You think they shout “death to Israel” and “death to America” only?

    They shout “death to Russia” as well, when in the right mood.

  36. marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 1:46 pm #

    You are using the term “extermination” Fincain, a inflammatory, dog whistle term for Jews and people who were horrified by Nazi death camps.

    Show me the call for “extermination” by an Iranian leader of Jews or Israelis or STFU.

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 1:49 pm #

      Sophistry peppered with outright pornography now.

      • daveed May 15, 2018 at 2:46 am #

        If I mention ‘you know who’….will you blurt out the F word again…..or just go into the foetal position?

        HRC!!!

    • Elrond Hubbard May 14, 2018 at 5:11 pm #

      See my remarks above, marcus1. I see little daylight between ‘elimination’ and ‘extermination’ as forms of rhetoric. And if you do, relying on such fine distinctions is dangerous.

      • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 5:45 pm #

        Responded above.

      • marcus1 May 15, 2018 at 10:05 am #

        About discussion above:
        Agree with your point about misuse of the term “dog whistle” The term “extermination” is inflammatory on its face.

        Concerning Iran and the Palestinians, which Iranians consider brothers in Islam, both are really powerless to seriously affect their outcomes. So I can excuse the call to eliminate the state of their tormentors. It is inflammatory rhetoric motivated, in my opinion, by impotence and frustration. Just as American slaves may have talked of elimination of the current US and replace it with a fair and free state.

        What cannot be excused is inflammatory rhetoric aimed at people that can actually cause “extermination” of both Iranians and Palestinians. This is reality compared to fantasy.

        I

  37. marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 1:48 pm #

    “Fuck the Iranians?” You mean eliminate or exterminate?

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 1:50 pm #

      Sophistry peppered with conscious inverting of opponent’s statements.

  38. marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 1:51 pm #

    Yes the Iranians chant “Death to …” Why? Maybe it is the existential threat of extermination by those States. Whereas they pose no existential threat to any state.

    • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 1:55 pm #

      I ask for evidence and rationality and all I get are complaints of “sophistry.” You suffer from constipation of the rational part of your being combined with diarrhea of random thoughts and feelings. A very tedious combination.

      • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 1:57 pm #

        I think, marcus, you have a drinking water problem – like if there is no water in the tap, Jews drank it all up.

        • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 2:02 pm #

          Oh I see, I’m a anti-Semite. The ultimate refuge of the radical Zionist zealot scoundrel.

          • sophia May 14, 2018 at 10:17 pm #

            Gee, I’m going to have to side with Marcus here. He is asking for evidence that an Iranian has called for genocide, and no one is providing it.

            To eliminate Israel does not necessarily mean a call for genocide. You are all arguing about what it might mean in your own minds. Either get the facts or move on.

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 1:56 pm #

      Well, one thing when the “normal” Iranians shout that – they may be drunk or having a bad-hair day, quite another when the Big Iranian Man in Charge himself say it.

  39. marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 2:09 pm #

    Let everyone take note. The war propagandist Fincain exposed. Don’t address evidence or embrace rationality. Site popular inflammatory tropes without evidence, label your opponents as haters, and pave the road for war with lies and half-truths.

    What’s next dehumanization?

    • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 2:21 pm #

      What’s your basic complaint, Marcus, that Israelis do not want to see their hard won country turned to Hamastan? What exactly do you want?

    • Tate May 14, 2018 at 7:10 pm #

      The “elimination of the Apartheid state of Israel” would mean what? the elimination of ‘apartheid’ in Israel? The Israelis — the realists among them — know what that would lead to.

      Life is tough, and those who refuse to face reality will be themselves eliminated soon after their systems for survival are.

  40. ozone May 14, 2018 at 2:16 pm #

    I think the last war of conquest prosecuted by Iran was India. Iran has not invaded a country in the past 270 years or so. Perhaps they’ve been the hand of skullduggery and proxy wars for all the time since? (…and have shown us a thing or two about applying these methods?) I kinda doubt it, but I’m sure someone could provide us with a listing of the countries the US has invaded or subverted in the same time period that would indicate which society was blessed with the most aggression and belligerence (not to mention, freedom and democracy).

    • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 2:50 pm #

      Exactly Ozone. Who invited the US into Syria? No one, it was an illegal invasion, Iraq? Libya?

      Advise for the US stupidity of invading Iraq? Don’t do that again.

      Some dim wits equate criticism of your government’s stupidity with anti-Americanism. I argue just the opposite, it shows care and true patriotism in exercising your First Amendment right.

      • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 3:04 pm #

        The various ethnicities massacred by Assad’s dictatorship invited the US. They also invited Turkey. They also invited Israel, but Israel so far has declined the invitation). Assad’s government has no legitimacy. Same for Syria.

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 5:40 pm #

      Yes Ozone, the victory of Hezbollah over the invading Zionists in Lebanon was a victory for free Men everywhere.

      • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 6:23 pm #

        Yan, you do know that Israel invaded south Lebanon to save the Christians in the south from being massacred by the Jihadists.
        Sabra and Shatila was Christians taking revenge for the massacres they suffered by the Jihadists.

        When Israel was forced to withdraw by the US, the Iranian Jihadists moved in and ethnically cleansed the Christians. Many of these Christians fled to Israel, and are still living in Israel. Where the Christian towns and villages used to live, now is Hezbollah. Hurray to Hezbollah for defeating the evil Zionists, right?

        • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 7:01 pm #

          The Shia are more favorable to Christianity than your ISIS allies, especially the Alawite Shia. Mr Assad and his wife visit big Churches in Damascus on Christmas Eve.

          • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 8:20 pm #

            Israel has struck an agreement with these Jihadi devils to save the Druze community, caught in that civil war. Thanks to Assad, such minorities including the Christian minorities are now targeted by the Salafists. ISIS allies? You are truly an idiot.

  41. Rain Waters May 14, 2018 at 2:22 pm #

    In 1977 I was an honor grad of a USAF avionics training program at Keesler AFB. That old school variety beginning with basic AC/DC electronics through wiring and complex (at the time) circuit analysis and component level repair. Nothing like this is currently available to any 18 year old here in the good ol’ USA outside of a university physics and engineering path.

    An identical program was simultaneously provided for Iranian air force personnel though segregated into a seperate set of buildings. I was told by numerous instructors that these students recieved the same training as we did.

    Persian people I’ve met here in the US in my life since then have always been basically good people some being kind to a fault especially when aware of their responsibility as an immigrant. My worldview is thus founded on my experience that we were all just a bunch of 18-27 year olds learning electronics to better our lives in a future that actually existed.

    The current demonization of Irans government is such an obvious propoganda ploy to anyone with life experience. Seems to fit Wesely Clarks statements on agenda to a tee.

    Since I’m here at our hosts place I withold comment on the arrogance I’ve experienced from certain other nationalities or faiths or whatever one chooses to label

    I don’t wanna fan the flames of “us and them” Roger Waters takes better care of that

    This awesome blog and forum might be the last stand before internet censorship shuts not just Janos down. Thank you Mr Kunstler for allowing the first amendment.

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 5:49 pm #

      Like the god, Janus, I looking into the past and the future and see that both are better than this miserable present. But only the far future when Whites are free again, siding with neither group of Semites, but with themselves, themselves alone (the meaning of Sinn Fein). The near future? God will give us blood to drink. The 21st Century may well put the 20th to shame. When did the fun begin last time? In the 20’s….

      Most Iranians are very hairy. Apart from that, I have nothing against them. Most Arabs are hairy too, but the Iranians are friendlier and smarter, perhaps because of their White genes. In any case, they’re more like us. The great Anthropologist Carlton Coon saw that little Persian boys would roughhouse just like White boys. Little Arab boys never do, but stand on their dignity like grown men, coming into contact with other boys only for real fighting or gay sex – lots of that apparently. They mature early, have a high T count, and are denied access to girls.

  42. Rain Waters May 14, 2018 at 2:41 pm #

    Pay attention to who has N Koreas soon to be Koreas back.

  43. wm5135 May 14, 2018 at 3:09 pm #

    Mr. Kunstler you are a superb magician! The slightest turn of the hand and you direct the conversation so you can distill the mood of the nation.

    Thank goodness for the Way Back Machine or we might lose sight of the years from 1941 to 1978 in Iran.

    I am really curious, how do they dispense LSD over the internet?

    Let Janos stay, I would prefer film at 10 of him standing in his front yard self identifying, it is best to have a barometer than not.

    Most respectfully -akmofo go do something obscene to yourself.

    • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 3:11 pm #

      Why?

      • S M Tenneshaw May 14, 2018 at 4:01 pm #

        Isn’t it obvious? You just don’t belong here. I mean, what’s a pro-semitic guy like you doin’ in a joint like this?

        • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 4:19 pm #

          Heheh.. nothing some Merkava tank cognitive rounds can’t fix.. 🙂

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 5:56 pm #

      Thanks, I guess, maybe…..

  44. beantownbill. May 14, 2018 at 3:25 pm #

    See the following from 2014:

    “A reliable new West Bank/Gaza public opinion survey conducted on June 15-17 — the only such poll since the current kidnapping crisis began — shows that Palestinian popular attitudes have hardened considerably on long-term issues of peace with Israel. Commissioned by The Washington Institute and conducted by a leading Palestinian pollster, the poll comprised face-to-face interviews with a standard random geographic probability sample of 1,200 adult Palestinians, yielding results with a 3% statistical margin of error. The responses indicate that fewer than 30% of Palestinians now support a “two-state solution”: a West Bank/Gaza Palestinian state in lasting peace with Israel. At the same time, some surprising signs of short-term pragmatism emerged — especially, and even more surprisingly, in Gaza.”

    So, given that Israel was formed to be a Jewish state, if you are an average Israeli reading this, what are you supposed to think? And given that all the rest of the states in that area are Muslim states, and that is considered ok, why is it not ok for Israel to be a Jewish state? Palestinians can live in Israel if they want – and they do. There are even Muslim politicians in the Israeli government. Try to imagine a Jewish politician in the Syrian government. Are there any?

    I’m not saying everything Israel does is correct. I’m saying I can understand why they act the way they do. Imagine Native Americans declaring the US should not exist and that they threaten to eradicate the country. After all, they were here first and driven from their lands by European settlers and their offspring. And tortured, starved and killed. Where’s the outrage over that?

    Can you not see why I might believe this anti-Israel bullshit has elements of anti-Semitism?

    • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 5:22 pm #

      By 2014 the confiscation of lands and deprivation of basic human rights, against all International norms and laws, was well under way for 40 years. What do you expect their attitude would be?

      Three major fallacies in your argument:

      What the US did 150 years ago to Native Americans is OK for Israel to do now. (would modern day slavery be OK with you?)

      “…why is it not ok for Israel to be a Jewish state?” Fine, but then they suffer the consequences of a lack of a First Amendment rights and depriving whole peoples under their control of any basic human rights. Don’t ask me as an American to support theocracies, its antithetical to American values. Jews suffered under many regimes, especially Nazis. Have a Constitutional clause designating Israel as a permanent refuge for Jews worldwide, but leave out the First Amendment and you lose my support.

      Then you fall back on the lazy ad hominem of Antisemitism in a feeble attempt to chill free speech. Bullshit.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 5:55 pm #

        Should we give America back to the Indians? They didn’t create this Nation, we did. Whites are the Native Americans. They were just living here….

        If only the Jews had taken Madagascar! Well off the world stage, they would have made short work of the natives without anyone being the wiser, maybe giving the remnant a barren corner or two. It’s certainly big enough for all the Jews who would have wanted to go and the natives. But No. They had to be Center Stage….

        • beantownbill. May 14, 2018 at 6:35 pm #

          Really, Janos, that is such a specious argument. You think we are dumb?

          • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 7:25 pm #

            What? Jews were offered Madagascar (among other places) and turned it down. That may turn out to be a mistake. Remember Nixon’s thumbs down prognosis long term for Israel? Many respected his acuity on such matters.

        • PeteAtomic May 14, 2018 at 7:54 pm #

          “If only the Jews had taken Madagascar!”

          I think the Aryans ought to have Madagascar, Janos. I’m sure the Indian subcontinent there needs some type of population relief 🙂

      • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 6:08 pm #

        Marcus,

        You say you don’t support theocracies, and yet you gave a very spirited defence of Iran, which is a theocracy. How come?

        Also, I’d like to know how it is you came to the assertion that Israel is a theocracy? (And an Apartheid state?)

        When you keep lobbing such outrageous and patently false claims, you mire yourself in blatant hypocrisy defending theocracies like those of the Ayatollahs in Iran, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in Gaza, I think it’s quite legitimate to ask why. What’s your motive? Mountains Finc, drew his conclusion and called you out as an antisemite. Given the above, I honestly don’t see how he’s far from the mark.

      • beantownbill. May 14, 2018 at 6:32 pm #

        Marcus, you missed my point. Maybe it’s my fault for being unclear.
        I never said it was ok for the Israelis to do what they are doing because America did it in the past – I’m was just using the “people who live in glass houses…” argument. You didn’t answer my questions, though.

        It would be nice for Israel to have a formal bill of rights, but they don’t – they aren’t Americans, they are mostly of European descent. Many did other countries don’t have a bill of rights, either. That’s just the way it goes. So why is my argument in this respect fallacious? I don’t understand.

        Maybe I should have said anti-Jewish. Is that more accurate? It isn’t unknown in today’s world, so why is calling it outright bullshit? Erroneous, I could accept, but bullshit? I don’t think so.

        The entire Israel argument, in my mind, is about survival. When someone’s survival is at stake, they either act aggressively or they run away. European Jews, with notable exceptions, mostly did neither during WW2 and it cost them. Now they are being threatened again, but this time they will fight.

        • marcus1 May 14, 2018 at 7:02 pm #

          What was your question? This?: “So, given that Israel was formed to be a Jewish state, if you are an average Israeli reading this, what are you supposed to think?”

          You are supposed to think that you subjugate people to tyranny for 50 plus years you can expect violent responses. Not so difficult study of human behavior is it?

          Again most all modern States have specific laws separating church and state, for good historical reasons. You want to support a theocracy in the ME? Good luck with that. Again you can forego my support and I can argue any good American’s support should be withdrawn when their treatment of people outside of their religious group is inhumane.

          Your antisemitism argument is lazy. I can site anti-anyfuckinggroup in this world. But it is not the main reason for complaints about Israel’s treatment of non-Jews under its control.

          “The entire Israel argument, in my mind, is about survival.” And Iran’s argument is not about survival? Facing two nuclear armed opponents with no real defense?

          ” When someone’s survival is at stake, they either act aggressively or they run away.” The Palestinians can’t run away so in your dichotomy aggression is their only resort?

          • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 9:10 pm #

            “The Palestinians can’t run away so in your dichotomy aggression is their only resort?” — marcus1

            The Palistanis can walk from Gaza to Egypt Jordan or Saudia just as easily as they did coming in to Gaza.

            youtu.be/XwBSWN4s9JU?t=10s

            Under “Israeli tyranny” the Palistanis had hospitals schools universities water gas electricity roads and other infrastructure build for them by the Israelis. Under “Israeli tyranny” their numbers increased by a factor of 10 in 50 years. That’s all going to change now. The Palistanis voted. They are now self-governed by Hamas.

            The Vatican KGB/CIA invented Palistanis exist only because of an industry of payments by European sponsors. These pay the Palistanis billions every year for the murder of Israelis and the staged Paliwood propaganda on the Vatican media outlets to besmirch Israel when it reacts to such paid attacks on its citizens. The Vatican sponsored Palistanis receive more dollars per capita than any others group on this planet, and it is a big industry for them to murder and wage war on Israelis/Jews.

  45. S M Tenneshaw May 14, 2018 at 3:55 pm #

    Meanwhile, John Kerry’s been meeting in Paris with some Iranian gubmint guys. Rumor has it he’s trying to salvage the nuke deal.

    Obviously that’s Zionist agitprop. Kerry’s meeting with the Iranians was personal, not business. They offered him some free cock, and they were setting up a tryst.

  46. tucsonspur May 14, 2018 at 4:13 pm #

    Is this a lousy deal? It’s not Iran but America. Who wins? (I think I know.)

    cnn.com/2018/05/14/politics/sports-betting-ncaa-supreme-court/index.html

    Many wheels will be turning this summer to setup the sports betting venues.
    Step up and place your bet on a decaying America. Will you win or lose?

    Get your heads out of the Middle Eastern sands. There are fortunes to be made here.

  47. Cavepainter May 14, 2018 at 4:23 pm #

    To add more to my prior statements (however unwelcome d) the innate tension between the male agenda and that of the female was an adaptation allowing societal flexibility in one taking preeminence as appropriate to survival pressures. Shift between matriarchy and patriarchy was always a consensus driven shift in recognition of the nature of survival need. Today though, politicizing that natural balancing tug-of-war for purposes of gaining political capital has had devastating effect upon the basic unit of social stability — the family. The patience necessary for flexing that balancing act appropriate to family survival has been sacrificed on behalf of political polemics.

    • tucsonspur May 14, 2018 at 4:38 pm #

      I welcome you into the arms of wisdom, with an addition to the unit of social stability–money.

      Many answers lie in the ultimately simple.

  48. 100th Avatar May 14, 2018 at 4:25 pm #

    Abrahamic middle-eastern religions.
    all 3 of them.
    a pox on humanity.

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 5:09 pm #

      The problem is not in Abrahamic religions, but in esoteric, gnostic misinterpretation and manipulation of them.

      • 100th Avatar May 14, 2018 at 5:52 pm #

        People get castigated for questioning global warming, vaccines, and vegetarian diet, but the believers of this make believe nonsense are given some bullshit cultural pass
        #enoughwithreligions

        • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 10:50 pm #

          I’m very sympathetic to your views. For the vast majority of my life I myself subscribed to them. And I was miserable for it. But life is ironic, and now I understand this irony.

          God is knownlege. You, my friend, are emotionally and intellectually ignorant. I don’t say this to insult you, as I said, I very much sympathize. I don’t know what will cause you change, or if such change will ever occur. I know what caused my change, and I know I’m grateful for it.

          But keep fighting on. There is a great tradition in Hebrew culture to argue. Only this way can you really flesh out the truth of your views. So keep hitting God as hard as you can. Hopefully one day he’ll hit you back, and then you’ll be grateful for his knowledge as I am.

          • 100th Avatar May 15, 2018 at 5:36 am #

            knownledge, of course.. ignorant, eh?

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 6:04 pm #

      Well thank you saying all three and being consistent and fair. As Hirsi Ali says, all of them are warlike since they claim that they alone are correct and everyone else wrong. Or at least strongly tend to in their exoteric form. Thus to the extent they are compassionate, they have to conquer others in order to convert and save them from hell. Obviously the Jews make the least effort to convert others, but one could also say they bother others the least as well. One could make that argument but I wouldn’t….

      • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 2:07 pm #

        “Thus to the extent they are compassionate, they have to conquer others in order to convert and save them from hell. ”

        Perhaps they should spend more time asking themselves how a loving god could enjoy watching people burn for eternity, even bad people or just those who couldn’t intellectually buy the story. I wonder if he sits there, tearfully, saying ‘this is hurting me far more than it’s hurting you’.

        And yes, I know that the rather revolting theological answer is that he is.

        • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 5:50 pm #

          I agree btw. That’s what sent me to the East – just can’t buy the idea of eternal hell and a compassionate God.

          There is a hidden or submerged tradition in Christianity that denies this – some saying the Greek “aeon” was mistranslated as eternal and not the more accurate, a long fucking time. But the Church went with the angry Jerome who loved this idea, unable to see that it mitigates the very God. Or perhaps he and those who came afterwards just loved it for its pastoral efficacy? Scaring people straight? I struggled with this for a long time in my younger days.

          • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 10:02 pm #

            Thank you for a response without a barb attached, Janos. I appreciate it. And I’ve spent as much time as you on it in my younger and not so young days.

            From memory, it was explained to me at some point that ‘eternity’ didn’t mean ‘forever’, which is still a concept relating to time, but that it meant ‘outside of time’, which is a concept less easily grasped (including by me). Not suggesting I’m telling you anything you don’t know already, obviously…

  49. janet May 14, 2018 at 4:34 pm #

    “Assad’s government has no legitimacy. Same for Syria.” –akmofo

    Same for Trump. He is a serial liar, not a legitimate president.

    DONALD TRUMP’S 3,000 LIES

    newsitem.com/articles/donald-trumps-3000-lies/

    • tucsonspur May 14, 2018 at 4:51 pm #

      Janet, you’re absolutely brilliantly dogmatic at times, but this is just another old, worn out bald tire lying in a forlorn, weeded over corner in a dilapidated junkyard.

    • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 4:57 pm #

      And? What are YOU going to do about it?

      • tucsonspur May 14, 2018 at 6:12 pm #

        Lay low, be quiet. Wait. Like Coyote.

        • akmofo May 14, 2018 at 6:30 pm #

          But Janet is a revolutionary! Of the Wile E Coyote type? Beep Beep!

  50. tucsonspur May 14, 2018 at 6:06 pm #

    After reading the posts above regarding Janos, I feel it necessary to chime in, although somewhat reluctantly. It’s my business only insofar as I post here.

    Here comes ‘free speech’ again. Has it come to yelling fire in a crowded theatre? My take is post what you will, respond where you will.

    Maybe what I posted rather lightheartedly years ago will do some good, so here goes:

    Again, with deference to Mr. JHK, the Generator:

    This blog is the wire
    And Vlad the electricity.
    He gives you a jolt
    When he mentions ethnicity.

    Your resistance is futile
    Because his current is strong.
    If you can’t take his posts
    Then just move right along.

    They say electricity
    Has a magnetic attraction.
    Just let go of the wire
    If you can’t take his action.

    Suck it up
    And take the shock.
    Even though you believe
    What he says is a crock.

    Try to defy him
    It’s really no use.
    Honkey or Spade
    You all get the juice.

    Now all of this is easy to say, and I can think of more pleasant things than being on the receiving end of someone’s ethnic barbs. Some might have valuable things to say, and yet be driven off. Skin thickness varies.

    Maybe some just feel they can’t hold their own under such circumstances. Understandable. But outside of direct threats and obscene, vile, nastiness, everything should be fair game.

    I’ll cite the mantra from the sixties; “Let it all hang out”!

    Or Clint Eastwood; “any man don’t wanna get shot, better move on out the back”.

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 7:21 pm #

      Yes, I really identify with Vincent Price as a Witch Hunter and Inquisitor. The joy of breaking down doors, a Bible in one hand and a sword in the other! The gleam of instruments of art by torchlight – or their glare in the Sun of the Public Square at high noon!

      But in other lives I was a Pagan High Priest and later, a Witch. The joy of calling the quarters at Full Moon, the Sabats and Esbats. Or the Solar High Holidays of Druidism – and the burnt offerings to our Gods. Even human sometimes. And the Knowledge taught mouth to ear, before men lost their memories and the coming of writing. There were Men who could chant the entire Irish Illiad or the Welsh Mabinogion. That was one kind of accomplishment. There were many.

      What can I do? I’m a European Wild Cat and I can’t be domesticated. Though only minimally furred and moderately muscled, no woman will ever tell me what I can believe. Or how late I can stay out. Or who I can associate with. No Government not neither.

      More power to you, and to All. The Light of Heaven is the same Light that burns sinners in Hell. Ripeness is all as Shakespeare. said. And if you can take the voltage, Energy is eternal delight.

      • tucsonspur May 14, 2018 at 9:56 pm #

        I too was once a pagan, and tilted the Earth, providing its obliquity.
        But the light within me was still too bright, making me stop at the seasons.

        Its bright beams spread into the kaleidoscopic fanfare and rituals of religion, testifying to the needs of man. Oh, if only I, someone, could fulfill them. No? So the Wiccan wheel turns and the Sun still burns sending us moonbeams and our dreams.

        I will leave well enough alone. Lightning bolts from on high,
        and volcanoes smoke the sky. The ancients figured out the obliquity, and thought that I’d gone far enough.

        And the Pythagoreans had my number.

      • sophia May 14, 2018 at 10:41 pm #

        Oh, Janos, don’t you think you have been or will be other races in other lifetimes?

        • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 2:48 am #

          Who can say? The Lords of Karma may so decree. But I must be loyal to this race in this lifetime for as long as it lasts. The Ancestors must be honored. That’s how it works. To do otherwise is to dishonor one’s life, one’s parents, one’s culture, one’s nation and Life itself really – since we were sent where we were sent for a reason.

          Of course I respect the renunciate traditions where one “dies” before death and takes no more interest in the above. But that’s not for everyone, at least not until the end of life.

    • daveed May 15, 2018 at 4:02 am #

      Tucson Spur,

      What if the subject of your touching psalm turns out ‘material’ that isn’t shocking, but is just plain old boring? What if his shtick is the “One Note Samba” we’ve heard a thousand times, carefully calculated to elicit shocked responses from CFN commenters? I guess that’s not grounds for dismissal. I scroll past his posts generally. I know they’ll be ‘inflammatory’, so why bother reading them? His presence brings down the calibre of JHK’s blog. He’ll step over the line, I reckon, sooner or later. And, after banishment, will be reborn. (Sigh)

      But today…was…his…day! Every dog has his (is it true, K-Dog?).
      So, delicious chocolate cake (best in the world) for everyone today, from the esteemed Mar-a-Lago bakeries!!

      By the way, T-Spur, your poetry is pretty lifeless (dead circuit?), no offense intended.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 1:05 pm #

        Yeah Davy, the good blogs are those where everyone agrees about Israel and Blacks, finishing each other sentences. The Good People!

        • daveed May 15, 2018 at 4:42 pm #

          How was the chocolate cake, blogfly?

          • ozone May 15, 2018 at 5:32 pm #

            daveed,
            vladdie get TWO pieces cake! Others only one. (so sad) vladdie win!

          • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 6:40 pm #

            Don’t be so bitter, zone. Next week may be your week. I won’t begrudge you….

      • GreenAlba May 15, 2018 at 2:30 pm #

        Daveed

        If the line is Holocaust denial I’ve seen him cross it more than once, with no penalty.

        I’m very high on his list of targets for vilification, although he’s apparently going to quit with the obsessive vendetta, but it’s never occurred to me to ask for his banishment, although I do think he should get a public dressing down for any instances of blatant Holocaust denial*. But it’s not for me to say – it’s not my blog.

        There’s a lot to be said for just letting him spout – eventually he will become a satire of himself. Sometimes I think he’s already there and knows it.

        *NB my feelings about antisemitism in no way mean I give up my right to have an opinion on what the Israeli government does, even while I understand their paranoia, sometimes justified sometimes not. A nice bit of fence-sitting, I willingly concur.

        • daveed May 15, 2018 at 5:20 pm #

          “NB my feelings about antisemitism in no way mean I give up my right to have an opinion on what the Israeli government does, even while I understand their paranoia, sometimes justified sometimes not. A nice bit of fence-sitting, I willingly concur.”

          Well said. I feel similarly conflicted about Israel. Does the gov’t have a death wish? Having said that, I wonder if the leaders of my country have the same dark dream.

          I appreciate your efforts to examine the nuances in complicated existential issues.

      • tucsonspur May 15, 2018 at 3:46 pm #

        I think it’s your own batteries. They’re low on charge and near dead. Remember, you can’t recharge yourself sticking your fingers into the lifeless sockets of static thinking.

        Don’t fear the lightning. It shatters the darkness.

        • daveed May 15, 2018 at 5:33 pm #

          When I see it (lightning), I’ll fear it.

          Not seeing any from Saguaro Country, though.

        • elysianfield May 15, 2018 at 8:28 pm #

          Remember, you can’t recharge yourself sticking your fingers into the lifeless socket…

          Tucson,

          Nice allegory…however it reminds one of someone “checking his own oil”…another allegory entirely.

    • ozone May 15, 2018 at 5:36 pm #

      “…with deference to Mr. JHK…”

      Nowhere do I see any indication of deference — or that silly thing we used to call respect.

  51. Pucker May 14, 2018 at 6:44 pm #

    Hungover Morning in America

    I think that it was de Tocqueville who said that it was basic Christian honesty and Christian Morality that formed the foundation for freedom and democracy in early 19th century America. Now American culture is a kind of craven dishonesty. (Democracy in America
    by Alexis de Tocqueville ).

    Culture of Dishonesty….

    “Former Mayor Michael Bloomberg warned Saturday that the worst threat facing the country isn’t terrorism or communism – it’s “an epidemic of dishonesty.””

  52. Pucker May 14, 2018 at 7:13 pm #

    If you have a generally moral population of Christian farmers, then you do not need a lot of laws and the heavy hand of the state to govern the population, which is mostly self-governing.

    In the South, a plantation system would like support a strong states-rights system of decentralized power since the profits of black Slave labor stay in the South beyond the reach of Yankee Bankers. The banks and the railroads would probably want to break up this system to grab the land and control over the black man’s labor?

    Because of the pervasive Dishonesty today, the US will likely slip into autocracy and totalitarianism.

    • Janos Skorenzy May 14, 2018 at 7:39 pm #

      Exactly so. Read the Southern Agrarians, “I’ll take My Stand”. Jefferson, De Tocqueville, etc.

      They say they want freedom, but are they responsible enough for it? And are they charitable enough to tithe (1/10) their church to take care of the destitute without families? Are they serious in other words – or do they just want deregulation to make quick dirty bucks?

  53. Ishabaka May 14, 2018 at 7:38 pm #

    The religious fanatics in Israel have 300+ nuclear weapons, so no nation dare wipe them off the face of the earth. Iranian religious fanatics probably feel the same way.

    • FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 9:21 pm #

      There is nothing in Judaism or Islam that calls for wiping each other out. The only thing the Scripture is calling for is to wipe out Amalek – the Satanist and his people.

      This is the only place I personally have a problem with – it calls for a complete genocide of Amalek People and threatens the God Wrath for failure to do so.

      • akmofo May 15, 2018 at 12:18 am #

        Amalek were the rulers of Egypt after the Hebrew exodus. As the Hebrews left Egypt and Pharaohs army was sunk in the Red Sea, Egypt was open to an invasion of Arabs from Arabia. Amalek (or Amu) ruled Egypt for 400 years up until the time of King Saul.

        Being rulers of Egypt, Amelek came to possess technology that was not available to the Hebrews. That technology was steel metallurgy. This they supplied to the invading Philistines which then dispossessed much land from Israel and caused great hardship and loses to Israel. Israel even lost the Ark to the Philistines. But Israel knew who was really responsible for such and who sponsored the Philistines. It was Amalek.

        Luckily, King David before he become king was a fugitive from King Saul who sought to kill him over a love affair with his daughter Michal. David with the help of Michal escaped and found refuge with the Philistines. At the Philistine camp King David learned the art of steel metallurgy. After that time, when David become King, the Hebrews overcome the Philistines, and we hear of them no more.

        In the mean time, Amalek was overturned in the fortress city of Avaris with Israel’s help, and Queen Hatshepsut (Queen “Sheeba”, Heb. “siting” Queen) comes to visit Solomon, David’s son. But a remainder of Amalek escaped Avaris first east and then north. It is my contention that Amalek (Gog m’Gog) is what we today know as Turks.

  54. Pucker May 14, 2018 at 7:49 pm #

    Somewhere there’s a J..ew…ish or American bloke who’s telling some A-rabs who’ve just done something really bad: “Good Job! Good Job!”

    After 9-11 and just before George W. Bush, Jr. helped the Saudi’s to flee US and FBI interrogation. GW to the Saudi’s: “Good Job! Good Job!”

    “Unit 504 was under the command of Rehavia Vardi. Polish-born, Vardi had served as a senior Haganah intelligence officer prior to the establishment of the state, and he was known for his sharp wit and blunt statements. “Every Arab,” he said, “can be recruited on the basis of one of the three Ps—praise, payment or pussy.”

    Ronen Bergman
    Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations

  55. meargen May 14, 2018 at 7:58 pm #

    I might add, for all the talk of terrorist acts, in the late 80’s, our military shot down an Iranian passenger jet, killing hundreds of people…we did an ‘oops’, thinking it was a hostile aircraft…did we ever apologize? I don’t think so.

    I don’t think Iran has any real active desire to invade Israel, but perhaps
    they and the rest of the Islamic world might decide they’ve had enough of Israel gunning down people. Also, if the US ever runs out of gas and can’t pump the Israeli military, then the regional balance of power will, as they say, get a serious reexamination.
    I don’t cheer this. It would be a genuine tragedy, but it seems like the current tragedy of killing thousands of Islamic civilians is ignored so we can keep fighting ‘terrorism,’ because America needs an enemy.
    As one Pakistani man said when we spoke many years ago, he didn’t like Jews, but felt the Israelis proved their right to exist by their warfare. They proved themselves militarily. But…he said very sternly…they would have to give Palestine a state. He said there would be no peace until Palestine is free.

    Much like it was decided Germany had to be destroyed…because Germans were just plain bad. As Churchill said in the 1900’s, ‘Germany is getting too strong and we must destroy her.’

    Curious because Germany historically was never an expansionist power, nor has Russia been.
    I recall when I was in the army in 1973, at the Army intel school, we saw dozens of Iranian and South Vietnamese officers…nations that were two linchpins of the Nixon Doctrine.
    I also recall a book called the Crash of ’79 (written in 1978), where the author showed a middle east war started by the Shah so he could seize all Mideast oil and dominate the market…also, he was building a nuclear bomb, so perhaps Iran under the mullahs is merely doing what Iran (Persia) would be doing anyway in their sphere of influence.

    Just random thoughts.

    • BackRowHeckler May 14, 2018 at 9:51 pm #

      Quite a few Iranians on the Submarine Base in New London, CT in the mid 70s, too. Ultra high Security and a lot of nogo areas but these Iranians seemed to have run of the place.

      brh

  56. PeteAtomic May 14, 2018 at 8:13 pm #

    “Is it too obvious to say that our previous efforts at re-engineering the various governments of the region have all ended in failed states? “Normality” may just be a mirage in the desert these days. What happened in the Islamic oil states was an historic anomaly, short-lived and catastrophic. What we’re witnessing is the slow-motion collapse of civilization at the margins. A corner of the world that was once emptier and quieter is on its way to being empty and quiet again, but not without a tragic convulsion of violence on the journey there. What’s happening on the margins these days will shortly move toward the center.”

    I agree somewhat, however– this was caused by an external force (the US) coming into this region and diddling with it forcefully now for some decades. Saddam Hussein ran a stable enough fascist state before the US created the power vacuum we so obviously see there now.

    So, I don’t really see a foreign force doing this to the US. I think we are gonna do it to ourselves, ultimately.

    I highly recommend that everyone who wants to understand Saddam Hussein to read the Politics of Revenge, by Said Aburish
    goodreads.com/book/show/967005.Saddam_Hussein

  57. elysianfield May 14, 2018 at 8:17 pm #

    Well, ladies and germs,

    Good news from the BBC! The Supreme Court has just passed a ruling that will allow sports betting across the good old USA! This also might apply to Internet Poker…and if so is a blow against the hated Uber-Slime Sheldon Adelson.

    There was a statement in the article from the NCAA which beggars belief…a real comedic moment;

    “The National Collegiate Athletic Association said it was a threat to the “integrity of athletic competition”.’

    The NCAA defining “integrity” is like Thwack describing the “black experience”….

    • elysianfield May 14, 2018 at 8:19 pm #

      And…the link;

      bbc.com/news/business-44114464

      • tucsonspur May 14, 2018 at 10:36 pm #

        This is big news. “Where have all the dollars gone, long time betting…Where have all the dollars gone, long time ago…Casinos have picked them every one…”

        Can’t wait to hear how our lives will be improved through education, health care, etc.

        That sucking sound is from the suckers being vacuumed by the politicians.

    • KesaAnna May 15, 2018 at 1:32 am #

      In his defense ( ? ) I think Thwack describes the black experience a hell of a lot better than the NCAA defines integrity.

      Should i think funny that America threw off the light yolk of a monarchy , so it could hand over your welfare to the loan sharks , so that you could eventually revert back to ( the worst kind of ) Feudalism ?

      • elysianfield May 15, 2018 at 12:29 pm #

        “In his defense ( ? ) I think Thwack describes the black experience a hell of a lot better than the NCAA defines

        Kesa,
        Yes, in this you are correct, for at least Thwack makes an effort….

  58. PeteAtomic May 14, 2018 at 8:23 pm #

    JHK writes:

    “What’s changed is a recognition that the agreement did nothing to stop Iran’s intervention in three of the current hot-spots of the region: Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen, where various contingents of Iranian-sponsored Hezbollah, Houthis, and even Iranian military regulars have carried the Shia battle flag in the ancient struggle to displace their Sunni adversaries, sponsored by Iran’s arch-enemy, Saudi Arabia — leaving wreckage everywhere. And, of course, let’s remember the Sunni factions include the savage ISIS and al-Qaeda gangs.”

    Yes, this is true.

    Very important developments in Iraq today actually:

    reuters.com/article/us-iraq-election/cleric-sadr-in-surprise-comeback-set-to-win-iraq-election-idUSK…

    This is really interesting, and very bad for US intentions (or Saudi for that matter) generally going forward.

    • PeteAtomic May 14, 2018 at 8:32 pm #

      “We will not allow liberals and communists to govern in Iraq,” Ali Akbar Velayati, top adviser to the Islamic Republic’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said in February.

  59. BackRowHeckler May 14, 2018 at 8:58 pm #

    James, talk about “slow motion collapse of civilizations at the margin” look what’s happening at the moment in Venezuela. For awhile there’s been no food or medication, toilet paper or milk, but now water and electricity, indeed all utility services to Caracas have ceased. Venezuelans are living in the dark and they cannot flush their toilets. Hungry gangs of young men roam the streets, looting and murder are endemic, infectious diseases are rampant. This really is a country in total collapse.

    This is where I’d usually insert a caustic comment about Danny Glover, Johnny Depp, Bill Ayers, Michael Moore or Sean Penn, “Friends of the Revolution” and frequent visitors and cheerleaders for the socialist experiment in Venezuela. But this is no joke. That country needs help.

    brh

    • PeteAtomic May 14, 2018 at 10:49 pm #

      Yeah, you are right. Terrible situation there and I don’t think the international community cards much which is also sad.

      • PeteAtomic May 14, 2018 at 10:50 pm #

        *cares much

      • BackRowHeckler May 14, 2018 at 11:29 pm #

        Odd thing is Pete, Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere.

        Unfortunately, the whole industry has ground to a halt because the petroleum engineers and professional administrators were fired and replaced with political cronys and reliable marxist cadres (who didn’t know shit)

        brh

        • PeteAtomic May 15, 2018 at 3:27 pm #

          wow, yeah well I don’t see that as a permanent situation particularly with oil as a precious commodity as it is. Something there will have to change.

        • ozone May 15, 2018 at 4:05 pm #

          BRH,
          Their basic trouble is depending on foreign sources of capital for the ol’ Growth.
          If you had ever visited, you’d know that Venezuela is an astonishingly rich area for agriculture; lush doesn’t even come close to describing it. Three crops a year can be grown there and resilience and sustainability are not even a question.

          What we see here is the failure of the “Modern America” trope. If they got their heads out of that particular ass, they’d make out just fine. Sell enough of that heavy crude to build research facilities for horticulture, medical and sustainable tech, and forget the rest of that hyper-complex bullshit. So… not everyone will have the 55″ flat screen to watch the novellas on… so fuckin’ what? Getting expectations down to realistic levels seems to be *everyone’s* problem these days! It’s really ridiculous.

  60. FincaInTheMountains May 14, 2018 at 9:13 pm #

    Or how bout the theft of nuclear technology from the US that led to destabilization of the whole ME? == Marcus

    Marcus, don’t exaggerate. In terms of nuclear technology, US has very little to steel from: for instance US lost the uranium enrichment capability – it was inferior diffusion method compare to much more advanced centrifugal method – and is forced to buy enriched Uranium from Russia – actually, that was the main reason of selling “American Uranium” to RosAtom.

    Of course quite a few bucks got stuck in greedy palms of Madam Secretary in the process.

  61. AKlein May 14, 2018 at 9:29 pm #

    Nothing really new about the US dealings with Iran. Just fiollowing the Roman model. “Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.”

    • BackRowHeckler May 14, 2018 at 9:56 pm #

      Or it could be the Carter Doctrine of 1979, which stated the Persian Gulf and the Straits of Hormuz to be assets vital to the United States and would be kept open to navigation at all costs.

      brh

  62. BackRowHeckler May 14, 2018 at 11:22 pm #

    Later this week the Iran govt to release identities of Big Players in DC who got some pretty big payola for greasing the skids so the nuclear deal could slide thru. Iran got $1.5 billion in hard American cash on two skids so there was plenty of swag to pass around.

    these deep state f-kkers who got handed sea bags stuffed with cold untraceable cash handed to them in cheap hotel rooms outside Washington, what did they do with it? Run out and buy a Maserati or a Lotus, or stuff it in a storage locker in Manassas, lay low for awhile, chill, act like you’re living on you $150,000 per year govt salary, let things cool off a bit?

    I would do the latter. These grifters didn’t count on Trump being elected; now the lid is about to blow off and everything F’d up.

    brh

    • daveed May 15, 2018 at 4:33 am #

      Yeah, Bro,

      Now that Trump is in the House, everything’s gonna be above board
      and legit. Grifters need not apply!

  63. BackRowHeckler May 15, 2018 at 12:21 am #

    ‘The Oracle of Oil’ — Mason Inman

    Bio of Marion King Hubbert

    The man was a prophet.

    Fracking has been around since the late 1940s, partially pioneered by Hubbert. Right now fracking is saving our ass, lifting US oil production north of 11.5 million bpd. Hubbert saw it as a last ditch effort, an act of desperation. He predicted world oil production by conventional methods would peak at about 70 m/bpd around 2010, which he pretty much got right.

    Worldwide demand now is about to reach 100 m/bpd.

    brh

  64. janet May 15, 2018 at 12:47 am #

    “professional administrators were fired and replaced with political cronys and reliable marxist cadres (who didn’t know shit)” –brh

    Sound very, very, familiar.

    Trump has brought in an array of inept and corrupt outsiders into our government. As an assistant to the Secretary of Energy, the Administration installed Sid Bowdidge, whose recent employment had included managing a Meineke Car Care branch in Seabrook, New Hampshire. Bowdidge departed after it emerged that he had called Muslims “maggots.”

    In December, Matthew Spencer Petersen, a nominee to the federal bench, became a brief online sensation when Senator John Kennedy, a Republican from Louisiana, asked him a series of basic law-school questions, which revealed that Petersen had never argued a motion, tried a case, or taken a deposition by himself.

    Embarrassing details came out about other judicial nominees: Brett Talley, who had never tried a case in federal court, wandered cemeteries hunting for ghosts; Jeff Mateer had called transgender children part of “Satan’s plan.” All three nominations were withdrawn.

    Despite the attention that these cases attracted, the vast majority of appointees, other than those who are named in Senate hearings or serve in the President’s executive office, are not reported to the public. “The idea that the American people do not know the names of those running the government is nutty,” Stier, of the Partnership for Public Service, said. “Many appointees get parachuted in below the radar, and no one knows they’re there until they hit a trip wire.”

    Some of those who have hit the trip wire are recent college graduates, installed in jobs usually reserved for officials with decades of experience. Taylor Weyeneth, a twenty-three-year-old whose only previous employment was with the Trump campaign, became one of the White House’s top-ranking officials addressing the opioid epidemic. He served as deputy chief of staff in the Office of National Drug Control Policy until January, when the Washington Post discovered that his résumé listed a job at a law firm from which he had been discharged for not showing up and a master’s degree he did not possess. The Post also noted that the White House Office of Presidential Personnel, which hired Weyeneth for the job, was itself a youthful operation: a “social hub” where young Trump aides “hang out on couches and smoke electronic cigarettes.”

    At a happy-hour party in January, the office celebrated one aide’s thirtieth birthday with a drinking game that involved “hiding a bottle of Smirnoff Ice, a flavored malt liquor, and demanding that the person who discovers it, in this case the deputy director, guzzle it.” When I asked the senior Administration official about the story, he said, “That was pretty common knowledge. That was their style.” –The New Yorker

    Trump is restocking the swamp with inept, ignorant, immoral appointees.

    • daveed May 15, 2018 at 4:25 am #

      Janet, I had the exact same reaction to the quote by BRH. I don’t
      remember the point he was making (anti-Marxist, I guess), but I was inclined to rewrite the sentence, replacing key words with “Trump appointees”. Thanks for posting.

    • Tate May 15, 2018 at 10:42 am #

      Trump is one man in the midst of a great corruption. the GOPe establishment made sure Nobody not on their team would get confirmation or security clearance.

      The fact of the youth & inexperience of Trump’s appointees just goes to show how deep the miasma of the Washington swamp truly is. Those who can get clearance with experience & standing either are afraid to take on what they perceive is a hopeless effort or they are the types such as Priebus, Kelly, McMaster who have been working against Trump all along.

  65. KesaAnna May 15, 2018 at 1:15 am #

    ” To the fellow commie and jihadi sympathiers on this here blog, may I suggest you vote with your feet. You don’t like the US, you like communism, you like jihadism, go and live with the communists and the jihadists.”

    The trouble with , or the irony of , the , ” If you don’t love America …” line of reasoning is that the United States has a long and consistent history of fucking over its former lovers.

    The United States has to paint the Loyalists in the American revolution , for example , as alien others , when they clearly were not , because otherwise it is a clear and vulgar case of fucking over your own.

    United States propaganda NEVER points out , for example , that Thomas Jefferson , George Washington , and John Adams , had repeatedly sworn loyalty oaths to the King and Commons of the British Empire ,

    and not in a context where , for example , people sign off on EULA agreements , or swear that they haven’t made a mis-statment on a job application , because they don’t really have a good and / or practical alternative.

    No , these men had previously sworn loyalty to George III to gain a great deal from the contract , when they could easily and just as well have not done so.

    The greatest irony here I think is George Washington.. I think it is entirely fair to say that he was a real nobody until the British Empire made him a somebody.
    there is little doubt that , WITHOUT THE BRITISH EMPIRE , you never would have heard of the guy.

    But never mind all of that. The Loyalists were assholes who just got off the boat yesterday. ( Never mind that that wasn’t at all true. )

    The Indians — I won’t bother to go into that , except to say that they clearly had some claim to the land they occupied , United States or no United States.

    But I guess THAT was precisely the problem , wasn’t it ?

    Here was a case where , if the United States was not , strictly speaking , fucking over its own people , it was at least fucking over the natives .

    Something which I fancy you should consider at length , since you are now the natives.

    From the Senator Jefferson Davis , to the soldier Robert E. Lee , to the sailor Rafael Semmes , a great many of the stars of the Confederacy were former career servants of the United States.

    It was entirely appropriate for them to compare themselves to the Founding Fathers of the United States.

    — Otherwise , the demonization of the Loyalists in the American Revolution COMPLETELY loses all legitimacy.

    Even if the Southerners were evil racists , that the forcible annexation of the Confederate States was done for the benefit of , and on behalf of , Negroes , is a tissue thin excuse that would make a cat laugh.

    New Yorkers don’t give a damn about Alabama. Not now , and not then.

    The United states doesn’t give a damn about Negroes , not now , and sure as Hell not then.

    It was , once again , a case of the United States fucking over , presumably , its own people.

    So now the United States is fucking over white Protestants ?

    ( But maybe you don’t care about them ? So never mind …..)

    So now the United States fucks over even uncritical flag -wavers ? WTF ??

    ( By the way , it makes me laugh when Catholics turn all sad puppy over the hate directed their way . The United States NEVER cared about them. )

    None of this SHOULD come as any news flash to anyone.

    I intensely dislike the United states.

    So why do I stay here ?

    That SHOULD BE a dumb question .

    My family is here . And I’m not a millionaire.

    I think that indicates , indirectly , that the creed of the United States doesn’t really value family. Not my family , not your family. Not any family.

    That , and apparently American capitalists and imperialists actually really suck at math.

    ” We have ^become way too tolerant.. ”

    lol , you must think you are special ?

    That it will not do to you what it has done to all these others ?

    No , if its past track record is any guide to future behavior , your demographic , whatever it is , will sooner or later , for one excuse or another, go to the chopping block or to the bread line .

    It’s a religious wish ( without the legitimacy of an actual religion behind it ) that believes otherwise.

    We have ^become way too tolerant..

    • BackRowHeckler May 15, 2018 at 2:54 am #

      “I intensely dislike the United States” — Kesa Ann

      Hey Kesa Ann maybe the United States intensely dislikes you.

      And you don’t have to be a millionaire to leave here. Save up for a plane ticket; by all means get out and go to a country you do like. Venezuela, Cuba, NKorea, Sudan, Somalia, Congo, Angola, Uganda, Yemen, Syria, there are plenty of paradises out there that will take you in.

      brh

      • daveed May 15, 2018 at 4:40 am #

        Don’t forget Russia! All the Cool Patriots are moving there!

    • onehunglo May 15, 2018 at 9:59 am #

      onehunglo heard enough……
      you dislike you country???
      onehunglo happy to provide one way ticket to red China.
      perhaps you develop gratitude after working on dog skinning preparation team??
      that ok.
      let not you heart be troubled.
      may God be with you.

      -onehunglo

    • elysianfield May 15, 2018 at 12:44 pm #

      “No , if its past track record is any guide to future behavior , your demographic , whatever it is , will sooner or later , for one excuse or another, go to the chopping block or to the bread line .

      Kesa,
      There may, indeed, be much about the US to deplore…and your argument, it’s progression, has a ring of truth. Consider that the US, with all it’s faults, may be the cleanest dirty shirt in the hamper. It may be dirty, but is not yet the hair shirt that those in other countries are forced to wear.

      Count your blessings…liquor is cheap, Tee Vee reasonably so, and the shelves are well stocked with Cheezy Puffs….

  66. Tate May 15, 2018 at 3:01 am #

    “Jordan Peterson is an absolutely shameless and filthy liar, but he is now tweeting about how angry and upset he is, and how pathetic Ari Feldman is, because Feldman is doing the same thing to Peterson that Peterson is doing to the Right. I didn’t like Peterson before. I thought that he was wrong and I thought that his philosophy was evil. I picked that up relatively quickly, but I didn’t really have anything against the guy personally. You know, I felt pity for him because he’s somebody who has clearly known a lot of suffering and tragedy in his life, but you know what, after I read those tweets where he was saying that you have no right to be proud of your culture, you have no right to be proud of your race, you have no right to be proud of your nation, you have no right to be proud of your tribe, you have no right to be proud of your people… you know what? Fuck him!

    “Anyone who is going tell me that I should not take pride in the tradition that my grandfather established for me, for my brothers, and for my children, can go to Hell. I have nothing but utter contempt for that attitude. You know, Petersen goes around saying “oh you should you should create your own standards and define your own truth and do your own thing” and all this kind of crap, that is not something that is going to preserve Western civilization, that is not something that is going to preserve the West’s traditions, and I’ll tell you something else. Jordan Peterson absolutely lies, because he says the goal of the far right is “to unjustly bathe in the glories of the past.”

    “That is totally false. What we on the right want to do is we want to be worthy of the glories of the past. When we look at the story of Leonidas and the 300 Spartans we want to be inspired by that, we want to be worthy of that. You do not develop courage on your own, you develop courage by seeing the example in others, and especially in others like you, especially in your family members.

    “Jordan Peterson is a man without honor. Jordan Peterson is a man without courage, and while I don’t think it’s true that Jordan Peterson is an anti-semite, I don’t think that it is true that Jordan Peterson is a dog-whistler, I think Jordan Peterson is scum. I think Jordan Peterson is a man without balls and I think Jordan Peterson is one of the very last people on Earth that anyone should be listening to. He is not going to teach young men to become men, he is not going to teach men, to become heroes. His path is the path of the rabbit.

    — Vox Day, May 13, 2018

  67. Tate May 15, 2018 at 3:05 am #

    “A lot of people have said, “well you know he’s doing so much good, you know, he’s helping these these poor young men who are assailed by feminism, under pressure from SJWs, and they don’t know what to do, they’re raised by single mothers, they don’t have masculine role models, and what he’s doing is really great for them.” The problem is that is nonsense! That’s absolute nonsense! What he is trying to do is he is trying to neuter them!

    “Jordan Peterson is not raising young men to defend the West, he is not raising young men to become heroes. He is teaching them that they are the measure of Man, they are the measure of Good and Evil, they set the standards, they do whatever they want. How is that any better than what the SJWs are telling them? The indoctrination that Jordan Peterson is providing through this philosophy of Jordanetics is poisonous. It’s like raising a kid on junk food. You can’t be surprised if all you feed a kid is junk food; he lives but he grows up to be fat and soft and weak.

    “People keep saying, “oh well, I like this about him and I like that about him.” So what? That’s totally irrelevant! The thing is, we now know that he is not only an intellectual fraud, he’s not only an intellectual charlatan, but he’s also a complete fraud when it comes to his own career. People are saying “oh but he’s so popular, and so many people like his videos and it’s just this organic phenomenon.” That’s a total load of crap! Jordan Peterson is no more a self-made man than Ben Shapiro is.

    “Jordan Peterson was recruited to help write the UN’s Report on Sustainable Development, A New Global Partnership. He was brought in to polish the narrative for a report that put John Podesta on its panel of eminent persons, and this was back in 2012, this was long before Peterson got famous, and so if you look at the timeline you can see that this is somebody who was raised up in order to fulfill a mission. And what that mission was is to attempt to defuse the growing trend towards nationalism.

    — Vox Day, May 14, 2018

    • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 3:28 am #

      Hard words, but true. And that last paragraph is damning. He’s another type of Neo-Conservatives, wanting us to polish off the old virtues so they can be used against us and for their New World Order.

      The best White boys are alienated. They’re not wrong. The System hates them unless they become traitors to the best in themselves. But of course they shouldn’t linger in alienation – they must come home to White Nationalism, the New/Old Way, also called the Third Way, Fascism, National Socialism, Alt-Right, Men’s Rights, etc.

      Not the Alt-Lite. At best that’s Peterson. At best. And that’s just a repackaging of the old conservatism sans Christianity for a civil nationalism of all the colors of the rainbow. It won’t work….

    • KesaAnna May 15, 2018 at 11:08 am #

      He’s a white male Oprah .

      ” That’s a total load of crap! Jordan Peterson is no more a self-made man than Ben Shapiro is. ”

      maybe someday I’ll meet a , ” Self-made man ” who is worth crediting after that whooper.

      But not so far, after 50+ years.

      • K-Dog May 15, 2018 at 11:24 am #

        Really? Who earned his PHD for him if he is not self made.

      • Janos Skorenzy May 15, 2018 at 1:10 pm #

        Well from the absolute pov, that’s true. No one makes themselves. And in terms of business, Obama and Pocahontas had a point. Of course instead of giving God the credit, they only talked about the community. Fine, per se, but with them that means the Global Village denuded of Religion. Hillary’s Village. And that dog won’t hunt rabbits, but it may very well hunt people. Look for killer robots in the near future. Maybe for fun they’ll make some of them in the form of dogs.

      • PeteAtomic May 15, 2018 at 3:07 pm #

        Oprah is doing damn good for herself, so. I’d love to see Jordan P. running up and down the aisles of his own talk show hollering, “and YOU get a car, and YOU get car, and YOU…” lol

    • K-Dog May 15, 2018 at 11:23 am #

      Wow, I checked our Vox Day. If anyone needs an example of a narcissist, not that we don’t have plenty of our own, check him out. Dudes got his own Wkipaedia entry where he thinks his ordinary life is worth wasting your time about. Makes me want to go out and start a garage band with people who can’t play music just so I can have my own vanity Wiki page too. Turns out we are from the same part of the country. I have only been in Seattle since I was a young man.

      Dude is ranting away all self righteous about lying while he is lying his ass off so much the room he is in is warming up. Quite a piece of work. Obviously someone who wishes he could be half the man Peterson is. Seriously serious manhood has to be lacking when you attack a guy who is traveling around the world telling people they need more structure in their lives by claiming he says you can do whatever you want and that is no structure at all. WTF logic is that? There isn’t any, the green eyed monster knows no logic.

      Vox says Peterson lies about math facts which are easily checked. Having done the math myself to see if it was all true or not the day before yesterday I know the answer. Since Vox says it is so easy to do I’ll let everybody else work it out too. It is all so easy you should only have to research the Normal Distribution curve for an hour or so if you don’t know any statistics at all. I won’t be a spoiler and give away the answer because I know all sorts of people are salivating out there waiting to research a math problem all by themselves.

    • K-Dog May 15, 2018 at 12:01 pm #

      This will help. The answer is in there.

      itl.nist.gov/div898/handbook/eda/section3/eda3671.htm

  68. K-Dog May 15, 2018 at 3:18 am #



    Dozens of Palestinians were killed in Gaza and more than 2,000 wounded as the Israeli army fired live ammunition and tear gas at protesters assembled along the fence with Israel on Monday.

    Burning wheels rolled in for rocks and then bullets for rocks and 10 missiles for every one in the north. A lousy deal all around.

    • akmofo May 15, 2018 at 8:48 am #

      Not really. The nazi sponsors of this staged theatre get anti-Israeli Paliwood propaganda on their propaganda outlets along with the usual braindead viewership surge on their dying and discredited media like CNN NYTimes, etc. The Palistanis of-course get billions for the show. A win win nazi racket.

      • K-Dog May 15, 2018 at 11:29 am #

        How well does the job of standing behind burning tires throwing rocks at soldiers with live ammo who shoot back pay?

        Because I’ll tell you right now if it does not pay a lot better than the gig I have going on right now I’m not interested.

        • akmofo May 15, 2018 at 11:48 am #

          They get paid $3,500 USD a month or $42,000 USD per year, for life! Not even well to do Israelis with good high-tech jobs make that kind of money. You can also compare that with the average income in neighboring Egypt just a few steps away which is $5,680 per year!

          • K-Dog May 15, 2018 at 12:00 pm #

            Needless to say I do better than that. I’ll pass.

          • akmofo May 15, 2018 at 1:54 pm #

            But you didn’t. They extracted from you the same Pavlovian response as they did from the rest of their braindead viewership, did they not?

        • capt spaulding May 15, 2018 at 8:59 pm #

          I’m just happy that Kushner is over the Middle East solving all of their problems as directed to by Trump. It’s about time somebody stepped in and ended this mess.

          • GreenAlba May 16, 2018 at 1:11 pm #

            Well, Tony Blair was given a shot as Middle East Peace Envoy.

            Sometimes you just need a new word for surreal.

  69. Ol' Scratch May 15, 2018 at 10:22 am #

    Interesting read for those conspiratorially inclined:

    bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_cooper2a.htm#Final%20Bill%20of%20Goods

  70. KesaAnna May 15, 2018 at 10:36 am #

    so far three replies , BUT NOT A SINGLE COUNTER ARGUMENT .

    😛

    ” Hey Kesa Ann maybe the United States intensely dislikes you. ”

    That’s rich. If you paid any fucking attention to what I bothered to explain to you , you might see that is damned cold comfort TO YOU pal. far more than it is any cut-down of me.

  71. KesaAnna May 15, 2018 at 10:50 am #

    By the way , when I was first brought to the united States at the age of ten , typically even the smallest towns had one , three, or five factories , or dozens of farmers.

    where did all those factories and farm contracts go ?

    It seems that your own leaders , the rich people you suck up to , those folks who presumably love you so much ,

    HAVE TAKEN the advice you give me.

    • K-Dog May 15, 2018 at 11:35 am #

      No the smallest towns had, nothing. Consider, Buford WY which has a single house, gas station, and post office with a population of one person. There have been Bufords since the dust bowl.

      • Tate May 15, 2018 at 1:28 pm #

        Don’t spurge out on us now. You can do it. Keep tryin’.

    • K-Dog May 15, 2018 at 11:36 am #

      It just seems that way because you were little.

  72. 100th Avatar May 15, 2018 at 12:08 pm #

    “Trump Delivers Embassy Victory to his Christian Base”

    You cannot invent such craven misdirection unless of course you are the New York Times.

    Don’t you know? Jared is a Christian. Netanyahu as well! AIPAC? Yep, Christian. Sheldon Adelsom? Born again! Steve Goldstein from Department of State? Christianisimo! Morton Klein? A pastor!

    Shameless.
    Own it.
    You can’t keep blaming poor stupid white middle-america fetanyly addicted Cheeto eating jesus worshippers.
    They’re an endangered scapegoat.

    • akmofo May 15, 2018 at 1:49 pm #

      The evangelicals represent a huge voting block for Trump. From proper economic thinking to gun rights to constitutional governance to their love of the TaNaKh and Israel, they are on the right side of history. And they are happy, while you stew in misery. Coincidence? It never is.

    • onehunglo May 15, 2018 at 11:56 pm #

      100th, you more miserable than Hillary at reunion of White House interns!
      that ok.
      let not you heart be troubled.
      may God be with you.
      -onehunglo

      • 100th Avatar May 16, 2018 at 8:35 am #

        Obfuscation.
        Evangelicals were not instrumental in this maneuver.
        It wasn’t their design. Their plan.
        They are not some monololithic block.
        They are not all behind Trump
        Behind Israel’s right wing regime.
        You can post, and repost under another avatar as much as you like, but facts remain.
        You can only blame stupid poor white jesus freaks for so long.

        • onehunglo May 16, 2018 at 9:18 am #

          ah, perhaps the world would be better when dissenting points of view are properly censored?
          ….then all could demonstrate same level of misery as you.
          that ok.
          let not you heart be troubled.
          may God be with you.
          -onehunglo

          • 100th Avatar May 16, 2018 at 11:09 am #

            Explains why you are so intent to bury the truth.

            The white christian evangelical cover for the machinations of an entrenched right-wing/neocon Israeli long game.

            Even Obummer saw this one for what it is.

          • akmofo May 16, 2018 at 12:29 pm #

            What’s the Israeli machination? Having the embassy in the state’s capital like in all other countries? I’m sorry, Avatar, the deeper you dig the deeper I’ll bury you. You, and all the other commie fscks here, and I wont be shy about it.

          • akmofo May 16, 2018 at 12:30 pm #

            .. state’s capitol..

          • 100th Avatar May 16, 2018 at 2:18 pm #

            It’s important when digging to not be standing in the hole.
            Lest your dirt pile collapse and bury you.

          • onehunglo May 16, 2018 at 2:18 pm #

            perhaps avatar offer optimal solution and illuminate??
            ….rather than stand on sideline throwing stones at those performing.
            that ok.
            let not you heart be troubled.
            may God be with you.
            -onehunglo

          • 100th Avatar May 16, 2018 at 8:14 pm #

            Maybe one can work on reading comprehension.
            The issue at hand is the NYTimes blaming Trump and some fictitious evangelical base for the Jerusalem embassy, for Israel’s move to solidify its capital, or at least the recognition of it.
            This has been a move accelerated by the right in Israel for considerable time.
            High on the agenda.
            Having embassies in your capital seems reasonable. Blaming this “inflammatory” move on christians is rather disingenuous and cowardly.
            Own it.
            Too afraid how it looks to the left leaning coterie that keeps the Times afloat.
            It’s not fashionable to be a conservative or aggro Jew.
            Just ask Blossom.

            There are legions of Israelis and diaspora that want the capital internationally recognized, and so what of it?

            Have the courage to own it. To argue for it.
            Scapegoating the punching bags of today’s America is rather gauche.
            And weak.

          • onehunglo May 16, 2018 at 10:14 pm #

            Confucius say, “beginning of wisdom is understanding depth of one’s ignorance.”
            ….avatar, you ignorant musings effect no solutions nor propose path forward for humanity to live in peace.
            rather, you espouse fatalist misery propaganda, reflecting a miserable soul not at peace.
            that ok.
            let not you heart be troubled.
            may God be with you.
            -onehunglo

          • akmofo May 16, 2018 at 10:27 pm #

            Trump run on a political platform. He got votes based on that political platform. He is delivering on that political platform. The only factor that changed regards the embassy move is TRUMP.
            It seems to me, Trump is the determinative factor.

            Now, you want to give AIPAC with its “superpowers” credit for the embassy move, then explain why for 70 years AIPAC was completely impotent in this regard.

          • 100th Avatar May 17, 2018 at 9:12 am #

            Trump isn’t delivering this for the evangelicals as the NYTimes would have you believe.
            They ignore the big money and big power/political players that have brought this to fruition.

            Your split personalities probably believe, well, want others to believe that the Iran deal was deep-sixed by American baptists…

            Propaganda pieces in pieces

          • 100th Avatar May 17, 2018 at 9:32 am