’Tis the season !

Absolutely charming and heartwarming. A new Christmas Classic
–Remson Pilchard

A Christmas Orphan

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Manhattan Gothic

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JHK’s novella about a boy in New York in the 1960s. Paperback – $8.00 E-book – $2.99 Click to Buy


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Rollicking and smart!

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by James Howard Kunstler

    Now that Lawrence Summers has removed himself from consideration as Federal Reserve chairman, President Obama is free to launch him into Syria as the first human rehypothecation weapon of mass destruction, where he can sow enough confusion between Assad’s Alawites and the Qaeda opposition to collateralize both factions into contingent convertible capital instruments buried in the back pages of Goldman Sachs’s balance sheet so that the world will never hear of them again — and then the Toll Brothers can be brought in to develop Syria into a casino / assisted living complex that will bring hundreds of good jobs to US contractors in the region.

     No doubt the stock markets will fly like eagles today. Nobody knew what monkeyshines Mr. Summers might have pulled over at the Fed and it was making investors nervous, as well as the big banks who employed Mr. Summers occasionally as some kind of policy bagman. So a big sigh of relief blew over the Northeast Region of the nation like the gusts of autumn air that swept away a fetid hump of stale, wet tropical weather that ruined all the ladies’ party hair in the Hamptons this month.

     Now that Syria has been disposed of — that is, indefinitely consigned to failed state purgatory — the world can focus its remaining attention on the almighty taper. I’m with those who think we’ll get a taper test. That is, the Fed will cut back ten or fifteen percent on its treasury bond purchases to see what happens. What happens is perfectly predictable: interest rates shoot above 3 percent on the ten-year and holders of US paper all the world round fling them away like bales of smallpox blankets and… Houston, we’ve got a problem. After a month (or less) of havoc in the bond market, and the housing market, Mr. Bernanke will issue an advisory saying (in more words than these) “just kidding.” Then it will be back to business as usual, which is to say QE Forever, which might as well be saying “game over.”

     One must feel for poor Mr. Bernanke. He’s tried to run a long-distance foot-race against reality and now it’s breathing down his neck near finish line. The idea was to pump enough artificial “money” into the economy to give it the appearance of motion, but all he accomplished in the words of my recent podcast guest, Eric Zencey, was a commotion of money, and the commotion was pretty much limited to a few blocks of lower Manhattan, two ribbons of real estate running up the East Side and Central Park West, and a subsidiary disturbance out on the South Fork of Long Island. Everybody else in the country was left to stew in a tattoo-and-malt-liquor torpor at the SNAP Card application office.

      The Fed can only pretend to try to get out of this self-created hell-hole. The stock market is a proxy for the economy and a handful of giant banks are proxies for the American public, and all they’ve really got going is a hideous high-frequency churn of trades in conjectural debentures that pretend to represent something hidden in the caboose of a choo-choo train of wished-for value — and hardly anyone in the nation, including those with multiple graduate degrees in abstruse crypto-sciences, can even pretend to understand it all.

     When reality crosses the finish line ahead of poor, exhausted Mr. Bernanke, havoc must ensue. All the artificial props fall away and the so-called American economy is revealed for what it is: a surreal landscape of ruin with nothing left but salvage value. Very few people will get a living off of the salvage operations, and there will be fights and skirmishes everywhere by one gang or another for control of the pickings. The utility of money itself may be bygone, along with the legitimacy of anyone or anything claiming institutional authority. This is what comes of all attempts to get something for nothing.

     By the way, for those of you still watching the charts, notice that gold and silver may bob up and down week-by-week, but the price of oil remains stubbornly above $105-a-barrel no matter what happens. That is the only number you need to know to predict the fate of industrial economies.

Published as an E-book for the first time!
The 20th Anniversary edition
With an entertaining new introduction by the author


Bargain Price $3.99

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This short, charming book will make you laugh (click here to buy)


About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

185 Responses to “Commotion” Subscribe

  1. nsa September 20, 2013 at 10:49 am #

    We create your reality and then you live in it. This is an occult age….. we here in Langley are the new “invisible hand”….ever present but unseen. Of course, you can put down your keyboard and iphone, and pick up a hoe and packet of gmo seed and try to feed yourself……maybe poach a deer off that has been grazing on roadside 2-4-D grass……

    • BleatToTheBeat September 20, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

      You should read my new book.

      “An Embarrassment of Langleys”

      • ozone September 20, 2013 at 6:23 pm #

        Count me in as a ‘consumer’ of that product.
        Does it include the blurb on the back cover that says, “There are none so blind as those whose eyes are everywhere.”?

  2. Pucker September 20, 2013 at 5:59 pm #

    Washington D.C., Sept. 19, 2013 — The Securities and Exchange Commission today charged JPMorgan Chase & Co. with misstating financial results and lacking effective internal controls to detect and prevent its traders from fraudulently overvaluing investments to conceal hundreds of millions of dollars in trading losses.
    The SEC previously charged two former JPMorgan traders with committing fraud to hide the massive losses in one of the trading portfolios in the firm’s chief investment office (CIO). The SEC’s subsequent action against JPMorgan faults its internal controls for failing to ensure that the traders were properly valuing the portfolio, and its senior management for failing to inform the firm’s audit committee about the severe breakdowns in CIO’s internal controls.

    JPMorgan has agreed to settle the SEC’s charges by paying a $200 million penalty, admitting the facts underlying the SEC’s charges, and publicly acknowledging that it violated the federal securities laws.

  3. Pucker September 20, 2013 at 6:08 pm #

    By way of serendipity, I found in a Chinese airport bookstore yesterday an excellent book, a Chinese translation of a Russian book entitled “The Final Year of the Soviet Union” (Sulian Zui Hou Yi Nian).

    I’ve just started reading it, but it’s fascinating. It appears that the U.S. economic situation now in many ways parallels that of the former Soviet Union just prior to collapse.

    One stark contrast, however, is that it seems that the former Soviet Union when the central government became weak and inept quickly became overwhelmed by powerful pervasive ethnic tribalism,i.e., communities that abide. Perhaps one strength of the US is the absence of this tribalism?

    I’m not sure how corruption played into the collapse of the former Soviet Union, but I suspect that corruption is an important factor undermining the effectiveness of the government and its moral authority?

  4. progress4what September 20, 2013 at 6:21 pm #

    Earlier today there were 140 comments, now there are 142 comments.
    I wonder where the two new comments are?
    They are not at the top or bottom of the thread.
    That would be logical.

    A couple of days ago there were 128 comments, at one point.
    Sometime later that number reduced to 122 comments.
    What happened to the “missing” 6 comments?
    Did JHK delete them?

    I miss Q. He’d be interested in all of this.
    Can’t believe JHK banned him.

    And why not allow posting of youtube videos?
    What’s the harm, JHK?

    Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy CFN and appreciate the comment thread.

    And I sure do not miss the Primary Troll.

    • Janos Skorenzy September 21, 2013 at 3:33 pm #

      In Hinduism, the various Gods are seen as posts. When one Shiva dies, another qualified being assumes this position and becomes the new Shiva. The Asoka Entity was our Devil. Now that it has been exorcised, who will take this post? Q love the Entity and his main interest here was fighting it. He may not be banned, just to bored to post.

  5. progress4what September 20, 2013 at 6:26 pm #

    Two new posts by Pucker while I was preparing to submit my prior post. (wise minds keep the same times?)

    This post should be #146.

  6. progress4what September 20, 2013 at 6:37 pm #

    Now Ozone posts, so this should be 148.
    I’d scroll to the previous page of comments to check, but every time you do that you lose EVERYTHING typed into the comment box.

    I also miss the old CFN software. Can you tell?

    Also – good posts by BRH, Ozone, and Pucker. I’d like to argue with the Reagan-lover. Perhaps, the only enduring positive outcome of the Obamadency will be diminished power for the executive branch.

    That might make the rest of the nonsense worthwhile.
    Some of it, anyway. ;-(

    Good emoticons on this software package, though!

    • Being There September 21, 2013 at 7:30 am #

      PODUS lost power many years ago. It’s not the President that has power, it’s the machine behind him that does. Those who never leave government, but go in and out of public/private life. (The Continuous govt.) and the plutocracy behind it.

      The President is their front.

  7. progress4what September 20, 2013 at 6:38 pm #

    :-( :-)

    Which emoticons work? Which don’t?

    How to find out?

  8. BleatToTheBeat September 20, 2013 at 7:13 pm #

    Yo, motherfucker…

    It’s Friday night.

    Even in the Midwest.

    What was it Bob Seeger said?

    “All of Chuck’s children are out there playin’ his licks.”

    Everybody tunes to the pianist.

    Especially these people over here….

    ….hit it Ricky


    Mr. Emotican

  9. Janos Skorenzy September 20, 2013 at 11:46 pm #

    Uncle Scam! Defund Obamacare! Send Unc Al back to the street corner where they found him.


    • BleatToTheBeat September 21, 2013 at 1:41 am #

      Of Course! We wouldn’t want to let that Baby-Boomer Demographic pass us by….right when they’re about to spend it all on health care?

      Money that has no where else to go!

      Remove that man’s brain!

      …after the procedure has been PEER-reviewed and ALL of the incriminating tests have been administered.

      Made my student loan payment this month….

      MRI’s for everyone!


  10. ozone September 21, 2013 at 8:48 am #

    From the Fat Cat Fun desk of the Revolving Doors Dept. comes a little item that I happened to stumble upon, rather than it being a proud moment shouted from the rooftops of triumphalist media:


    Oh! A prized DEMOCRATIC fundraiser, eh? I guess that makes him an entirely different kind of G-S partner then. (Pardon my initial scoff.)
    Anybody hear a mention of this on their regular news (infotainment) purveyors? Strangely, not a peep in this quadrant…

    • Being There September 21, 2013 at 10:14 am #

      That’s hilarious when you consider that Canada has a great national healthcare system that the US wants to smash. We are systematically going around the world imposing neoliberalism everywhere.

      Everything must be privatized–that’s really what the New World Order is about. Transnational banks and corporations with all the power and ownership of all things national. Is it any wonder that a GS boy gets the ambassadorship?

      Oh and remember—Little Lord Blanfein does “God’s work”
      (who shall live and who shall die)

      • ozone September 21, 2013 at 10:26 am #

        Thanks for correctly interpreting Blankfein’s puzzling statement!
        I had thought it was to provide beneficent guidance to the ignoranti of the world, but now we see it’s simply a description of an exercise in ‘sorting’. I have visions of cattle cars emptying and a riding crop indicating “to the right” and “to the left”.

      • Janos Skorenzy September 21, 2013 at 3:19 pm #

        And the first step towards privatizing is publicizing. Private Education for the masses was destroyed by public schools – which now has become little more than the dissemination of propaganda and the shaping of work animals. Soon it will be discontinued except for overtly technical schools and the Liberal Arts will go back to being for the very few.

        What’s the best way to destroy a balloon? Blow it up too big. You don’t a sharp instrument that someone can point to and accuse you of using. The balloon is doing great as it gets bigger and bigger. You love the balloon!

        Are you starting to see how they work? Once they get a hold of the Public Domain it’s just a matter of time. That’s what Socialism, Communism or your new word, Progressivism are all about. As Fascists, we understand this process and root out the Evil both on the so called Right and so called Left – the two sides of the same degraded being.

        • Arn Varnold September 22, 2013 at 12:45 am #

          Private Education for the masses was destroyed by public schools – which now has become little more than the dissemination of propaganda and the shaping of work animals.
          I entered the public school system in 1952. What you have described as the resent present, is actually, the ancient past.
          It has always been thus and to suggest otherwise is clearly not the case.
          Outside of a very few private schools, genuine education started at the university and only a relatively few of those existed to actually educate their students. knowledge in and of itself is not being educated, IMO. Learning how to think and sharpening critical thinking skills, along with a broad curiosity about the world around us are the beginnings of education.
          Autodidacts generally fared far better at acquiring what I would term “an education”; but then my standards are rarely valued or sought.

  11. ozone September 21, 2013 at 10:20 am #

    From the Pay No Attention To That Man Behind The Curtain desk of the Hokum and Bunkum Dept., a whiff of brimstone and the suspicious slime trail of insider shenanigans:


    Well, well, well; somebody got some ‘splainin’ to do.

    • Being There September 21, 2013 at 10:59 am #


      These traitors–traders really don’t care who notices what….

      They are the untouchables. The law doesn’t reach them

      –Oh don’t you know? They are self-regulating….No regulations!

      • Janos Skorenzy September 21, 2013 at 3:29 pm #

        Is this way you want Be? Is this progress? Is this your “change”? Is this what you all were moving on to?


        Marxist Socialism seeks to turn everything upside down and inside out. National Socialisms would seek to return everything to its rightful place. In other words, it reveres Nature, both Human and the Natural World.

        • Arn Varnold September 22, 2013 at 7:35 am #

          Yours is a most confusing post. Do you object to transgender? Do you consider it Un-natural?
          Sorry, but you sound like a Friedman capitalist.
          I would enjoin you to be a bit more clear on what you are saying.
          Is that possible?

          • ozone September 22, 2013 at 9:38 am #

            In regard to your last query, the answer would be, “no”.
            When one attempts to stuff every contention into a box of fascist, ubermenchen-controlled idealism with twisted, self-serving religiosity as a carrying vehicle, this is the result.
            Thanks for trying though, and I mean that sincerely.
            (You can now see why responses to these ideas are thin on the ground.)
            No need to feed; and that’s my last word on the subject.

          • Janos Skorenzy September 22, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

            Well I’ll grant that certain brains may be feminized or masculinized in utero creating the experience of gender confusion. I can feel sympathy for such people but I don’t want a new bogus elite created by the Elite in order to torment ordinary people. That’s what this is all about. Feel like paying for this under Obamacare btw?

            I had a friend who had this operation once. After the surgery he/she became very empowered and arrogant indeed. And the necessity of being a women meant that she had to also create a feminine mystique. In short, our friendship withered though we remained on good terms and were friendly when we met.

            I’m a Fascist. Fascism, also called the 3rd Way, is neither Socialist nor Capitalist being based on Man and Nature not economics. But being neither, it can use both, adapting them to its needs. Needless to say I hope, We eschew Marxism utterly as based on vile premises. We’re not against the rich per se, but they must be on board with the Nation. If not they can get out before we tax them to down to nothing.

            It should be clear now that both Capitalism and Communism are International and work very well together. Read Atlas Shrugged if any doubt remain. Or look at Obama hobnobbing with Billionaires. We are for Nations and each Fascism will be specific and unique as each People and Nation are.

            The most radical economic plan ever put forward for America was by the Fascist Huey Long. Every man a King with a cap on maximum income. This goes beyond my recommendations for America – though it makes sense for some place like Greece maybe. He was assassinated by a Jewish doctor. Interesting eh? Guy just felt like killing someone and Long just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Or maybe the Doc drew the short straw and was sent?

          • Arn Varnold September 22, 2013 at 8:23 pm #

            In regard to your last query, the answer would be, “no”.
            When one attempts to stuff every contention into a box of fascist, ubermenchen-controlled idealism with twisted, self-serving religiosity as a carrying vehicle, this is the result.
            Duly noted, thanks. With his follow-up post it all becomes clear.

  12. ozone September 22, 2013 at 10:06 am #

    What happened and what didn’t?
    Here’s an analysis by Mike Whitney of where the economy stands, as Bernanke’s pretending continues:


    “In the case of QE, we can see now that Bernanke forged ahead without developing a coherent exit strategy. That’s a big no-no; you never want to paint yourself into a corner especially when trillions of dollars and the stability of the financial system are at stake. But that’s where Bernanke finds himself today four years after embarking on a policy path that has boosted corporate profits to all-time highs, widened income inequality to levels not seen since the Gilded Age, and pushed Dow Jones Industrial Average up by 146% since its March 2009 low.

    And that’s what made QE such an irresistible policy, because the upside rewards were so great. QE created a vehicle for transferring incalculable wealth to the investor class while concealing its real purpose behind public relations blather about lowering unemployment and strengthening the recovery.” -M.W.

    Now, it behooves us to remember that Mr. Whitney worships at the altar of our lady of perpetual growth, so he believes a few tweaks and twiddles will return us to the land of rainbows and unicorns… but he does like to get his factual ducks in a row, so that part is quite enlightening.

  13. ozone September 22, 2013 at 10:48 am #

    More on derivatives, and someone spots Ellen Brown clinging to some flotsam from the Titanic.


  14. progress4what September 22, 2013 at 11:46 am #

    “No need to feed…”
    …ozone, to arn, concerning janos, who used to be vlad, who writes concerning “cassidy,” who used to be a “girl”…

    And Bradley is now Chelsea, somehow?

    Nope – I’m pretty well certain that the ability to change one’s name and “gender,” without recourse to legal procedures, hormones, or surgery – is not a thing that will be tolerable after The Long Descent.

    As far a the troll-charge. I disagree, O3.
    Vlad/Janos may be a lot of things, and a lot of posters dearly love to hate on all of them – but you’re going to have to show me a definition (out of 38 pages?) of “troll” that Janos actually meets, relative to the theme(s) of this comment thread.

    • ozone September 22, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

      Respectfully, that’s a long way around Robin’s barn, and I made no mention of troll-dom, just thoroughly discredited ideology that only deserves consideration in the what-not-to-do column, rather than predetermined futile discussion. Reading what I wrote on this, verbatim, is expressing exactly what I meant to say, no more, no less. Interpret as you like, you’ll get no further ‘argument’ from me about it, as I don’t think it’s worth the space or acrimony that follows. Apologies in advance.

      • Janos Skorenzy September 22, 2013 at 1:35 pm #

        And on what basis do you accept transgenderism? Because it’s popular and all the “good” people do? Sorry that’s insufficient.

        Your a great one for condemning but you seldom offer reasons for doing so. Ad Hominem is the modus operandi of Political Correctness after all. And as far as stating what you do believe in: Never. It’s all a tribal thing with you. People are supposed to get you based on certain verbal and referential cues such a SNL skits.

        We agree, much to your chagrin, on many things. Both of us love Paul Craig Roberts, Permaculture, and the crazy cool of Nellie McKay. But I’m willing to talk to anyone and explain myself to any sincere person. You are a snob, even though poor. What a poor snob! I wish we didn’t have so much in common. TLE will be good for your soul me thinks. The clay is brother to us all and death is not proud.

    • Janos Skorenzy September 22, 2013 at 1:27 pm #

      Thank you Prog for your good ol’ fashioned Liberal attitude of defending a man’s right to say as he wills. It’s an attitude at odds with current Liberaldom which is just our own homegrown Socialism.

      I’m working on a new concept, the Conservation of Hatred. Liberals don’t hate less than Conservatives – their hatred is just for different people. Instead of hating the alien, they hate their fellow citizen. Xenophiles instead of Xenophobes. Thus they haven’t transcended tribal identity, it just become a cognitive one. So the amount of hatred remains constant just changing its form. This model is taken from physics and chemistry. But based on my experience I think the my model is flawed: Liberals hate more than Conservatives because they have to vilify their opponents to avoid answering their arguments. After all, they are in a most awkward spot since the Truth is usually not on their side. And loving aliens is unnatural. Xenophobia can be excessive but it is natural and serves a purpose. Loving aliens serves no real purpose but just ideologically driven egos.

  15. progress4what September 22, 2013 at 12:03 pm #

    OK – and begging the indulgence of JHK, I’m going to post ONE, and only one, youtube.- because it will, hopefully, show a picture of “cassidy,” with no further clicks of links being necessary.

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    And, JHK – if you ban me for this, then you’re banning one of the last few people who is still paying attention to this comment thread.
    If you hate YouTubes so, why don’t you get your software guy to reconfigure so that they can’t be posted?

    Some observations:

    1. It is really wrong and unfair to the 3.5 billion females on planet earth that random males can just declare themselves to be female AND then compete as females. Although, competing on “beauty” is more fair than competing on soccer goal-tending or female roller derby, or some other contest of strength and athletic ability.

    2. What does it say about your high school that the winner of the vote for the cutest girl – is a guy?

    And what does the homecoming “king” think?

    3. “Cassidy” is really “Lance.”
    “Chelsea” is really “Bradley.”

    What is up with all of these guys with stud-like names who are now declaring themselves “female?”

    I’m glad my name’s not Dirk.

    Although, if your name is “Clint” it should be really easy to drop the single letter “n,” and go for it!

    • Janos Skorenzy September 22, 2013 at 6:55 pm #

      I heard that the King was disqualified when he refused to kiss her. This kind of thing could easily ruin the whole tradition as boys just give it all up as just too “gay”.

      Too bad there wasn’t a bucket of pig’s blood around. The new Carrie movie will be out soon.

    • ZrCrypDiK October 13, 2013 at 8:48 pm #

      “If you hate YouTubes so, why don’t you get your software guy to reconfigure so that they can’t be posted?”

      Haha!!! No *doubt*! I mean, that face-plant embeds every link as a picture/video – not *JUST* you-plant. No need to embed the you-plant video – just leave it as a link, or *PLAIN TEXT*…

      And yes – I’m not banned (err, “back”?)…

  16. progress4what September 22, 2013 at 5:12 pm #

    “Apologies in advance.” …ozone…

    No need for apology – I just assumed “feed” was calling Vlad a troll, and I don’t think he meets that definition by any stretch. And, man ‘o man; do the long-time readers of CFN comments know about trolls.

    I’ve gotten very interested in comment threads as a reflection of, or even a driver of – public opinion. And the effect of “trolling” on unmoderated comment threads is unfortunate and undeniable.

    I saw a study that said that only 10% of readers of a blog post (or news post, I can’t remember) will ever make a comment. Yet, on most comment threads that I read through – there will be comments representing ALL possible opinions and there will be at least a few which PERFECTLY align with my own opinion.

    And it’s easy to pick out the trolls.

  17. progress4what September 22, 2013 at 5:43 pm #

    From a Harvard study:

    “National institute of Justice surveys among prison inmates find that large percentages report that their fear that a victim might be armed deterred them from confrontation crimes. “[T]he felons most
    frightened ‘about confronting an armed victim’ were those from states with the greatest relative number of privately owned firearms.”
    Conversely, robbery is highest in states that most restrict gun
    ownership.” http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

    That’s Harvard – not noted as a bastion of red-state and NRA attitudes.

    I miss Turkleton too. He is the one who first got me thinking about “trolls.”

  18. Pucker September 22, 2013 at 10:08 pm #

    Lawrence Summers says that this’ll really make your monkey shine:


  19. Pucker September 22, 2013 at 10:32 pm #

    What about becoming a tug boat captain?

    I once met this American bloke–if I remember correctly—in Ottawa, Canada who had traveled up the Mississippi River all the way to Canada in a small, cute home-made tug boat.

    That might not be so bad? Particularly, if you get contracts from people to pull stuff around

    The women wouldn’t like it though. I doubt that many women would want a boy friend who’s a tug boat captain?

    How does one get into the tug boat business?

  20. Arn Varnold September 23, 2013 at 7:25 am #

    What a sad state of affairs; longing for the trolls and socks; because in the ensuing immaturity, one needs drama and stupidity in order to be entertained.
    A need to feel superior to the troll/sock playing the thread.
    JHK is giving his view of moving forward in a very fucked upped country; one which I elected to leave.
    I have never regretted that decision and some of the sentiment expressed here had cemented my resolve.
    There is no serious dialogue anywhere in the media extant; just bluster and bloviating and bullshit!
    You all have been posting here for a long time and I haven’t; just why do you think that after cleaning out all of the trolls there is no new blood?
    My guess is because of the past crapfest that was JHK blog!
    It’s going to take time and legitimacy to restore credibility…

    • progress4what September 23, 2013 at 7:53 am #

      You are correct, good post.

      You may misunderstand my sentiments about Turkelton. He was one of the best posters here, for brainpower and writing ability – second maybe only to JHK, who provides the playground.

      And, even though Turk and I rarely agreed, we never trolled each other.

      • Arn Varnold September 23, 2013 at 8:11 am #

        Fair enough; I’m not familiar with Turkelton; but POV is not trolling if it’s legitimate and opposing. I’ll talk with anybody, regardless of POV; but, they’ve got to be honest and honest is not trolling.
        It’s just a different POV; viva la difference…
        But most of the trash that was cleaned out was, well, trash!
        Vlad is a good example; I don’t agree with him, but he has his POV; it’s just not mine…

  21. Arn Varnold September 23, 2013 at 7:27 am #

    Your playground has changed; live with it and thrive…or not…

  22. Arn Varnold September 23, 2013 at 8:24 am #

    This thread is hours from going the way of the Dodo, pity that…


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