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A Christmas Orphan

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Manhattan Gothic

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Rollicking and smart!

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by James Howard Kunstler

     The financial wires and pod-waves are all lit up these days like it was happy hour at the Lottery Winner’s Lounge.  It appears that the American economy — capital management division — has found the long-wished-for magic alternative energy source: horseshit. It is fueling the conversation all over the Web and over the senile mainstream media megaphones. One technical analyst, celebrity Tweeter Ralph Acampora of Altaira Wealth Management, actually said this week that the USA would be “energy independent by 2016.” That’s rich. We’d only have to come up with 8.5 million new barrels of oil a day, or give up driving cars altogether.

     Apparently, the Federal Reserve is not just hosing down the markets with liquidity (i.e. money for nothing), but has also turned its headquarters in lower Manhattan into the world’s biggest stationary crack pipe. Meanwhile, more than a few professional observers of the financial scene say there can’t be any bubble because that’s the only thing everybody talks about and bubbles only form when nobody notices them.

     That’s just not true. Plenty of people were hollering and finger-pointing about the housing bubble years before it blew up the banking system, including yours truly in a book published in 2005 (The Long Emergency). The reason there is so much anxious chatter about the current bubble is because the bubble is there for all to see, and when it pops it is sure to leave a lot more rubble on the ground than the last time — for instance, the wreckage of trust in all paper investments, which would be quite an historic financial innovation. Since the interventions and manipulations of markets and interest rates are perfectly obvious, one would have to conclude from the current sentiment that faith in the crookedness of finance has completely solidified. The markets have now discounted their own dishonesty.

     The story making the rounds these days is that the USA’s industrial economy is on the rise again; that the housing market has “recovered;” that (according to Meredith Whitney) the “central corridor” of the nation (Texas to Minnesota) is the second coming of Japan in the 1960s; that we have more oil than we know what to do with; that the nation has bred a super-race of intrepid entrepreneurial risk-takers like unto no other society in history; and finally that whatever else we are or are not, America is the cleanest shirt in the laundry basket of Mother Earth.

     This is all horseshit of course, being smoked in the New York Fed’s crack pipe.

     Here’s what’s actually going on. The Federal Reserve can only pretend to have any option besides force-feeding “money” into Wall Street as if it were a Strasbourg Goose with Crohn’s disease. What passes through goose is a vile toxic substance called malinvestment, which turns the energies of society into activities that produce nothing of value, like hedge fund employee bonuses, NSA operations, Tesla car promotion, Frank Gehry condo towers, drone strikes against Afghani wedding parties, Obama photo ops, inflated auction prices of oil paintings, and Barney’s new Jay-Z holiday fashion collection.

     The Fed makes regular noises about ending the force-feeding program (a.k.a. “quantitative easing” or “bond purchases”) issued in the recorded minutes of its Open Market Committee (FOMC). The propaganda is called “forward guidance” to give it the appearance of seriousness and rectitude, but its actual nature is more like what goes on in a Jerry Lewis movie of the 1960s — a kind of antic mugging. Lately it’s referred to as “taper talk” in reference to the threat of tapering the Fed’s purchases of US Treasury bonds and other debt paper, which runs at around $85 billion a month. Sometime soon, the Fed may announce a tiny taper of say $10 billion a month. This head-fake taper will cause the interest rates on the ten-year-bond to shoot up north of 3 percent and threaten to bankrupt the government — which is too broke to pay interest that high on the loans it takes. The markets will have a whack attack over the tiny taper. The Fed will freak out at the odor of deflationary depression and go back to full-tilt force-feeding of the sick goose.

     The outcome will be some combination of a complete loss of faith in paper currency and the “assets” denominated in it, a complete loss of trust between banks that they are solvent enough to do business with each other, and a conclusive implosion of Wall Street and all the institutions in and around it, extending to the executive branch of the federal government. The sorry little appendage to all that, US economy, will be left in the cold and dark, whimpering for its mommy.

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Tis the Season!

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

244 Responses to “All Bulled Up With No Place To Go” Subscribe

  1. rube-i-con November 27, 2013 at 7:09 pm #

    To offhandedly and disdainfully calling proponents cornucopians without discussion of facts is really just avoiding the topic

    you’ll notice the doomsters revel in the vaguest of generalities and do not (rarely) respond with facts that might lead one to conclude one way or another.

    i have cited many, many advancements that demonstrate that we have the capability to overcome alleged energy descent. and are already doing it on many fronts. SBSP is one. where is the challenge, the refutation?

    thank you very kindly for being a reasonable voice.

    peace peaceniks

    • Neon Vincent November 27, 2013 at 10:34 pm #

      OK, Rube Icon, the River that Must Not Be Crossed, I have some links *you* might like. After all, there is a reason I named my blog after the fictional alien Crazy Eddie. He was a techno-optimist, too. He was also a believer in hopeless causes.




    • Neon Vincent November 27, 2013 at 10:36 pm #

      Ah, WordPress moderation software is in action, I see. Three links triggers it. Therefore, I won’t post three links in a comment again.

    • K-Dog November 28, 2013 at 3:04 am #

      “SBSP is one. where is the challenge, the refutation?”

      The refutation, from the article “Controversy Flares Over Space-Based Solar Power Plans“.

      An excerpt:

      A former NASA scientist demonstrated the RF concept last year by beaming 20 watts between two Hawaiian islands ? barely enough energy to power a dim light bulb. That experiment cost just $1 million. A full-scale space solar power setup would require much bigger and more costly receivers.

      Typically power plants generate more than 1000 megawatts. If a million dollars gives only 20 watts then it would take $50,000,000,000,000 to beam down 1000 megawatts from space. This is five times the amount of money in the world. In other words.

      All the money in the world would not come close to building a space based power station that even comes close to equalling the power generated by a single typically sized earth based power station.

      I actually think the idea of an SBPS is really cool. Cool but sadly impractical; pie in the sky.

      • K-Dog November 28, 2013 at 3:14 am #

        This is better:

        All the money in the world would not build a space based power station that even comes close to equalling the power generated by a single typically sized earth based power station.

        Total pie in the sky.

        • Janos Skorenzy November 28, 2013 at 2:32 pm #

          Are you against high tech for moral reasons? Would your ideal state have any high tech if could be kept clean? Even if only on a limited basis for special purposes?

          How about Ocean Thermal Systems, which use the solar heating of the ocean. To quote Jerry Pournelle, “One possible system is pictured in figure 5. It is an Earth based solar system and the concept is simple enough. All over the Earth, the sun shines on the seas, warming them. In many places – particularly the Tropics – the warm water lies above very cold depths. The temperature difference is on the order of 50 degrees F, which corresponds to a respectable water pressure of 90 feet. Most hydro-electric systems do not have a 90 foot pressure head.”

          Some systems are described here: http://www.wbdg.org/resources/oceanenergy.php

          • K-Dog November 29, 2013 at 3:39 am #

            I am for any technical solution, hight tech or low tech that meets the following two conditions.

            A) The solution must not be an environmental disaster.

            B) The solution must make economic sense.

            Ocean thermal systems are nothing new. I believe in heat pumps and wish someone would actually build a system that exploits the difference between ocean temperature depths.

            Paying due respect to condition A such systems must not be implemented on a scale that would disrupt normal ocean currents. A demonstration project would obviously not come close to being a problem in that way and much could be learned.

          • K-Dog November 29, 2013 at 3:40 am #

            high tech or low tech

        • beantownbill. November 28, 2013 at 2:58 pm #

          Yes, at 2009 levels of efficiency. Ever hear of progress?

      • beantownbill. November 28, 2013 at 2:50 pm #

        Did you read the entire article? That scientist, Hoffer, actually believes in the possibility that SBSP can provide us with energy equivalent to solar panel’s efficiency. Note the article was written in 2009. Increases in solar panel efficiency has risen a lot since then. Four years in R&D can be a long time. Also, note the the experiment used microwave radiation and Hoffer proposed using lasers. Ever hear about laser-beam weapons being successfully tested? Aren’t there satellite laser-beam systems now? Wasn’t the government freaked out when North Korea launched a satellite, because they were afraid that the North Koreans could have the ability to include a laser system aboard? For SBSP, all that needs to be developed is a significant increase in distance efficiency.

        Sure, there are issues in beaming down energy from orbit. If it was so easy, someone would have done it already. The current progress of R&D is really just starting, given the resources currently available. What, one experiment (of which we don’t know the details) didn’t work out well enough? Did you forget that Edison had to conduct 10,000 experiments before he could produce a practical lightbulb? Did Jonas Salk develop a workable polio vaccine on his first attempt?

        Your response is typical of doom mongers, K-Dog: Assume, to begin with, that something can’t be achieved and look for anything that wasn’t successful to validate your claim. Sorry, this methodology doesn’t work for me.

        • Janos Skorenzy November 28, 2013 at 5:44 pm #

          Would the SBSP introduce energy onto the Earth that wasn’t already coming in from natural sunlight? As a believer in Global Warming, Kdog would veto it for this reason. The Ocean Thermal System is free from this so I wanted to see if he would veto this as well.

          • beantownbill. November 28, 2013 at 11:23 pm #

            In order for the system to work, sunlight gathered from satellites would have to be rather tight-beamed, else the transmission to Earth would be attenuated to the point of uselessness. Think of how a flashlight beam works – it spreads out in a cone. That’s not good. Picture a hose adjusted in a tight stream, rather than in a wider spray; that’s what we’d want.

            When the collected sunlight, in whatever form, is transmitted to Earth, most of it would be received within a relatively small area because the amount of attenuation shouldn’t be large, hence the amount of impact to the environment should be acceptably small, less than the impact of collecting and processing fossil fuels.

          • K-Dog November 29, 2013 at 3:42 am #

            That criticism of SBSP is overblown and represents an effort of grasping at straws in a case where there is no need to do so.

  2. Q. Shtik November 27, 2013 at 9:16 pm #

    “for the serious-minded on the board, here are some net energy plus homes in the US” – Rube-i-con

    Unfortunately, 310 million of us can’t live in adobe dwellings in a desert in New Mexico with the sun beating down on an array of large solar panels unblocked by huge oak trees. But if we could, who would be the suckers to buy our current energy inefficient homes?

    • BleatToTheBeat November 27, 2013 at 10:18 pm #

      Not to mention the hassle of finding a decent swimming pool service in Albuquerque!

      • K-Dog November 29, 2013 at 3:46 am #

        I think that if there is demand for a decent swimming pool service in Albuquerque someone will start one. Be patient and remember ‘Field of Dreams’ If you build it they will come.

  3. beantownbill. November 27, 2013 at 10:50 pm #

    To Marlin:

    Thank you. An easier way to say it, at least this year, is happy thanksgivakkuh (or something like that). Anyway, eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow your stomach will be very bloated.

  4. beantownbill. November 27, 2013 at 11:12 pm #

    To Q:

    I hope you are right. I don’t have much financial resources in my retirement funds as a result of a long- term profligate lifestyle that any retired, self-respecting accounting person would disapprove. Unfortunately, what I do have is tied up in stocks, with some cash in CDs (after I reached 62, I lost my desire to speculate in other types of investments, and my stock portfolio increased enough to cover my cash’s loss of value due to inflation and very low rates).

    My issue is this: I know the market will peak, probably sooner rather than later, and I have no confidence in banks after seeing bail-ins in Cyprus, and events in Greece. I’d love to pull my funds out of my SEP-IRAs, but I’m only 68.5 years old. I’d have to pay a hefty tax and maybe penalty if I withdraw now, and I’ll be damned before I give the Feds any of my wealth. I have 2 years before I can withdraw funds without penalty, but I don’t think we have 2 years before some serious shit goes down. I’ve wrestled with this for over a year and still haven’t figured out what to do to my satisfaction. That’s why I was happy to hear you think I can still increase my wealth for the next couple of months. I hope you are right.

    • beantownbill. November 27, 2013 at 11:42 pm #

      I’m still in good health, considering my age and the fact that my body is wearing down. I think it’ll be a long, slow process of decay, so that I still have enough good years of active living left in which to enjoy life. I still have my business and am continuing to make an income, but I decided to finally cut down on some of my spending.

      I gave up my iphone. I just don’t use it’s advanced features. My wife has her own smartphone and does use it a lot, so I don’t have to have one myself, particularly since last month I used it for a total of 2 minutes, and the month before that, for 17 minutes. I bought a cheap cell phone for $20, and signed up for a pre-paid plan that costs $.25 per minute. I had to purchase $100 dollars worth of minutes to cover the next year. This buys me 400 minutes per year, more than enough for me, at $8.33 per month, a far cry from what I’m paying now.

      I sold my sports car for which I paid cash when I bought it, so I still had considerable equity in it. Funny thing, we’re getting along fine with one car.

      I was spending $101 per month on my Verizon home phone. I ditched that plan and went onto a Vonage plan for only $35 per month, including all the rip-off government taxes and fees. I also pay $101 per month for my business line, and I’m about to do the same Vonage thing for $40 per month.

      The point is, we seem to be able to do everything we always do, but for less money. I have ideas on how to cut down on other expenses. It only took a determination to spend less, and some research to learn how to make it happen.

      • Arn Varnold November 28, 2013 at 3:14 am #

        *I bought a cheap cell phone for $20, and signed up for a pre-paid plan that costs $.25 per minute.*
        Ouch! Here in Asia it costs .03 cents/minute and about .15 cents/minute to call America. No contracts, so one buys the phone and choose any company (here). The other remarkable thing is this; I call, I pay; if somebody calls me, I don’t pay, no cost to me.
        I’m billed by the month and usually (I don’t speak much on the phone) pay less than $12.
        Cell phones are a rip-off in the states. Last I visited, I brought my phone with me and bought a sim card and spent about $75 over a 30 day stay. Lots of calls and a few overseas, so I wasn’t unhappy.
        Went back home and put my Asian sim card back in and went my merry way.
        If I ever go back stateside (unlikely) I’ll buy an unlocked (legal) phone and a sim card.

        • nsa November 28, 2013 at 11:38 am #

          So all you JHK groupies move to asia and become white houseboys for kindly asian families….and in your off hours you can whine about the 14 hour days with the other houseboys for 3 cents a minute……….

          • Arn Varnold November 28, 2013 at 7:41 pm #

            Obviously, you haven’t been paying attention…

  5. Q. Shtik November 28, 2013 at 2:48 pm #

    “I have 2 years before I can withdraw funds without penalty” – Bean

    I don’t know if a SEP-IRA is different from a plain old IRA but with an ordinary IRA you would not be penalized for withdrawing any or all of your dollars. True, if you withdrew everything you might push yourself into a higher tax bracket and pay more tax than if you withdrew your money in smaller increments over time.

    Perhaps you are misunderstanding the rules regarding RMD (Required Minimum Distributions). Once you reach 70.5 years old you must begin to take RMDs each year. A moderately complex formula is applied to the year end value of your IRA that takes into account your age and (I think) your spouses age. You must pull this minimum amount (or more if desired) and pay the tax on it. If you don’t you will be penalized.

    To my knowledge there is no penalty involved in pulling money any time and in any amount between 59 and 70.5 years of age.

    My IRA money is in an account with Wells Fargo. I have it set up where money is withdrawn quarterly so that the exact minimum amount is pulled each year. I have a portion sent as tax to both the Fed and State. I try to estimate an amount a little greater than necessary so that I get a refund and don’t have to pay them a penalty.

    • beantownbill. November 28, 2013 at 2:55 pm #

      Thanks for the info, Q. This gives me something to think about.

  6. rube-i-con November 28, 2013 at 7:01 pm #

    Unfortunately, 310 million of us can’t live in adobe dwellings in a desert in New Mexico with the sun beating down on an array of large solar panels unblocked by huge oak trees.

    you make the mistake of fatalizing, along with other assumption errors.

    the point is not for 310 million to do this, the point is for perhaps 20-40% of homes to be made net energy plus, which would make for a colossal reduction in the use of electricity, with the associated drop in the need to burn fossil fuels to supply said power.

    plus, who says you HAVE to live in the DESERT to do this? denmark has no desert, yet has net energy plus homes.

    it’s very telling that, every time someone points out a de facto technological reality, you doomsdayers come back with some childish hyperbole why it can’t be done. it’s really laffable.

    we salute you from our net energy plus homes as we careen into a future of abundance and untold riches.

    peace peaceniks

    • Arn Varnold November 29, 2013 at 2:06 am #

      This is one reason we’re failing ourselves and the planet.
      The irony is; the planet, per se, isn’t in danger, but our existence on it definitely is in question. At least, for 90+% of earthlings.

    • K-Dog November 29, 2013 at 4:00 am #

      I support energy plus and wish people would stop talking about it and do it. This would however require the support of a responsible government which is not bought and paid for by oil companies and other corporations.

      You misunderstood me. My criticism is that they are museum pieces and not being implemented as they should. Given the resources I would build an energy plus doghouse and live in it. I clearly said so. What part of that did you not understand.

      A government backed initiative could even be big enough to implement methods so that energy negative dwellings could be torn down and their materials reused in constructing new energy plus structures.

      But we need less talk and more action. As it is the talk does nothing and there is no action at all.

  7. Q. Shtik November 28, 2013 at 11:07 pm #

    “it’s very telling that, every time someone points out a de facto technological reality, you doomsdayers come back with some childish hyperbole why it can’t be done.” – Rube

    Be realistic Rube, it is YOU who have presented a link to an article and a picture of a net energy plus home as if to suggest that if they could do it why can’t the rest of us do it.

    Less than one week ago I was visiting my m-i-l in the hospital. Her roommate was a woman a year older (92.5). That old woman’s daughter, herself old-ish and retired was tending to her mother’s every need. I got to chat with this caregiver for a solid two hours and the conversation covered the gamut from the trials of caregiving and health insurance to the topic of the solar panel installation project nearly completed on her home. My recollection of the numbers went something like this:

    Solar power over the past two months had offset 63% of her normal usage compared to the prior year. She has 16 panels and each is about 2/3rds the size of a common interior door like a closet door. When completed she expected an offset of 70-75% taking into account seasonality.

    I asked if the sun’s rays were obstructed by anything such as leafy trees or other buildings from sun up to sun down. No, no obstructions. I mentioned that my reason for asking was that MY home is surrounded by 5 huge oak trees. She grimaced saying that would make solar cost ineffective for me. I asked how long the “payback period” would be for her project…how long before electric bill savings would equal the cost of the solar installation. After some hesitation she said “two years.” I’m guessing she was giving a number that was way too optimistic. Then she mentioned as further support a 30% tax credit that factored into the payback calculation. This woman was retired from PSE&G (Public Service Electric and Gas) where she was employed 46 years so she spoke with some authority.

    Rube, I wonder about your figure of 20-40% of homes that might reasonably be converted to solar. Of 310 million people how many live in rental units, cities, high rises, etc and how many in their own homes. Of those in their own homes how many would have the money for such a project. How many of those owned homes are poorly located, as mine is, for solar input. How many owners of those poorly located homes would be willing to sell their homes and buy one of those net energy positive homes like the one pictured in Santa Fe? How long would the non-solar majority be willing to subsidize the solar minority with 30% tax credits before a halt is called to this Robin Hood tax scheme?

    Rube, it is hard for me to envision the time when net energy positive homes put more that a small dent in our overall energy problem.

  8. rube-i-con November 28, 2013 at 11:19 pm #

    Q, tx for a GREAT real-life exposé of solar power. I think it is telling that that woman, bless her heart, is getting 63% of her normal usage compared to the prior year.

    That woman’s example means this is REAL and WORKS in some settings.

    The main takeaway from my posts on net plus energy homes is that, since it’s been demonstrated that they are real, we simply need the political will to go as much down that route as we can. No one’s shooting for 100%.

    This may mean that folks in the East get 10% solar supply, as opposed to folks in N. Mexico getting 90% electrical supply from the sun.

    The point is, even a 20% supply of all electrical needs via solar is GIGANTIC towards reducing the need for fossil fuels.

    We don’t need to completely eradicate the use of fossil fuels, we merely need to significantly reduce it.

    Your example shows its can be done. Averaging 10% in the East and say 70% out west still give us, what, 35-40% savings, which is ginormous in terms of reducing dependence on fossil-fuel based electricity production.

    Don’t worry about any the populace getting up in arms about supporting solar installations, no one even has the faintest clue where their money goes.

    If the political will is there to support this, it will become a reality. Look at Germany, where every damn rooftop is lined with solar panels because the pols let people earn money by plugging their panels into the grid. And it works.

    peace peaceniks

    • beantownbill. November 28, 2013 at 11:28 pm #

      Right on, Rubicon!

      • Arn Varnold November 29, 2013 at 8:03 am #

        Interesting; you asked me the month (in a previous thread) and I answered June to your May. We’re a month apart in the same year.
        But you don’t reply to me, ever. I posted to your cell phone post, but no answer.
        Are you rude, oblivious, or just oblivious?
        In the end, it doesn’t matter; this is the internet after all. A place social conventions are irrelevant.
        So, hope you are well and happy…

        • beantownbill. November 29, 2013 at 11:33 am #

          Arn, I apologize for not replying to your posts. I got involved in the solar power issue, and I didn’t want to overpost, so I guess you were left hanging in the wind. Again I apologize. My intention was not to be rude. In fact, I’ve read all your posts.

          Since I’m here now, let me respond to your reply about my cell phone costs. It is hard for me to imagine costs in Asia being so low. You said “ouch” when I reported my new, lower charges. To me, my new plan appears cheap. Much about America is pure bullshit, like the monopoly the medical industry has in health care, which is really the issue with Obamacare.

          Regarding cell phone charges, labor costs are much higher here than in Asia, so it.costs more to develop and build a very widespread system. I don’t know for sure, but I feel cell phone network providers are just trying to get their money back. The higher costs here are really a result of the economic mess we’ve had

          • beantownbill. November 29, 2013 at 11:35 am #

            To work with. It’s unnecessarily complicated and all linked together, but the bottom line is that America has been taken over by big business.

        • beantownbill. November 29, 2013 at 11:57 am #

          You’ve said you live in Asia. What is it that makes you want to live there, assuming you aren’t a native born Asian.

          India has always fascinated me since I read ” Freedom at Midnight”. But I would never want to live there; the extraordinary range of extremes is too much for me. I’ve always had an attraction to China, but considering all its issues, I wouldn’t want to live there, either. Perhaps Hong Kong, because it is a mix, somewhat, of East and West. For the short-term, I could see living in Japan, but the country is doomed, I believe. Also, possibly Phuket in Thailand, but that’s probably not realistic.

          I bring this all up because we Americans are so insular. We think the world is 3,000 miles long, and that’s it. I always want to learn about different places. When I was a kid, one of my uncles gave me a globe from the 1920′s on a small stand. I literally spent hours and hours reading all the names on it and imagining being in each one.

          • Arn Varnold November 29, 2013 at 7:38 pm #

            Thanks for your considerate reply.
            I’m an American born in Queens, N.Y.
            I was an unemployed engineer who was offered a job in Asia. I always wanted to see Asia and experience the culture.
            That was just over a decade ago.
            I love America, the geography, but little else.
            America is a myth that never existed. Waking up to that has been a bitter pill to swallow.
            And yes, Americans are provincial in the extreme, which makes most of them ignorant beyond belief.
            Most westerners who come to Asia, come to exploit the women, cheap living, and generally can’t adapt to the diametrically different culture. The language is another stumbling block; Asian languages are difficult for most westerners because they are not rooted in Latin or other EU languages, which is a shared trait of English.
            There are two break points; one year and five years, IME. Those who stay longer usually never go back to their origins.
            You’re curious, an admirable quality which I share.

          • Arn Varnold November 29, 2013 at 10:08 pm #

            @ BB
            What is it that makes you want to live there, assuming you aren’t a native born Asian.
            I didn’t answer your question.
            As the U.S. cheerleader’s primed the people for war, I swore I’d leave the U.S. if we attacked Iraq.
            Six weeks after it happened I was offered a job in Asia.
            Here I still am. I like the laid-back life style, the people, the culture, and the low cost of living. I live comfortably on my meager (by U.S. standards) retirement income. I couldn’t do that in the states.

    • K-Dog November 29, 2013 at 4:04 am #

      Yes we should support solar panel instillations the same way Germany does but our government does nothing. Our government supports big oil instead.

      • beantownbill. November 29, 2013 at 1:53 pm #

        Now that is very true.

  9. daytrip November 29, 2013 at 12:53 pm #

    I think you guys are missing the point:

    Al Bartlett arithmetic population and energy

    As much as we like to think we can “grow our way out of it (deficits, etc.)”, we’d need 3 planet Earths to do that.

    • K-Dog November 29, 2013 at 3:07 pm #

      ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

      And two paws up!

      If you’d like to see more of what Al has to say you can.

      Al Bartlett

  10. BackRowHeckler November 29, 2013 at 4:29 pm #

    ‘Black Friday’ … what a national disgrace it is!

    One question: When the media reports the sales numbers on Monday, while are we expected to give a sh-t what the profits of Best Buy, Walmart or Toys r Us are? Why is it news/ Who F–king Cares?


    • Arn Varnold November 29, 2013 at 7:44 pm #

      It’s not a disgrace; it’s a pathology/mental illness.

      • K-Dog November 29, 2013 at 9:14 pm #

        Yes and it’s also your patriotic duty to make the rich richer.

        • BleatToTheBeat November 29, 2013 at 9:19 pm #

          And we keep gettin’ richer
          But we can’t get our picture
          On the cover of the Rolling Stone….

          • K-Dog November 30, 2013 at 1:48 pm #

            Oh yeah gonna send five copies to my mother

            ♯ ♭♩♪♫♬♫♩♩♬

            We got a genuine Indian Guru
            Who’s teaching us a better way
            We got all the friends that money can buy
            So we never have to be alone………

  11. BleatToTheBeat November 29, 2013 at 9:27 pm #

    Fly Shit Luck


    • ozone November 30, 2013 at 9:06 am #

      Excellent! Thanks for the page, Bleater.
      (I do “The Ballad of Lucy Jordan” by Shel Silverstein. Great song, version by Marianne Faithful a real killer. Hey, it was on the soundtrack of “Thelma and Louise” come to think on it.)

    • K-Dog November 30, 2013 at 9:55 pm #

      He should never have rolled those heavy dice. But then I’m a fine one to talk.

  12. beantownbill. November 29, 2013 at 11:19 pm #


    The stories I was taught about America as a child have really changed. You know, that the

    • Arn Varnold November 29, 2013 at 11:32 pm #


    • beantownbill. November 29, 2013 at 11:38 pm #

      Colonists fought for independence from the tyranny of King George, we are citizens of the greatest country on Earth, America is a free country, our government looks out for our best interests, etc. The last 50 years, since JFK’s assassination, have made us lose our childish innocence. The blindfold has been removed from our eyes (obviously not for the majority of citizens, but still a large number), and those of us willing to really see have become cynical people. Count me among those not fooled by the rhetoric.

      I am an American, but I feel I stand apart from the masses because I don’t like our society. I don’t like the prejudice and intolerance, the ignorance of the truth and the refusal to act in any worthwhile manner. I’m also sad that we seem to have blown it – we had the resources to accomplish much, but we let ourselves get taken over by liars and insincere persons who have taken us down the wrong path.

      In truth, although I’m reasonably alienated from my society, I am loathe to leave the country. I don’t know, maybe it’s inertia, maybe it’s aging, maybe it’s reluctance to leave friends and family at this stage of my life.

      • beantownbill. November 29, 2013 at 11:45 pm #

        Sorry, I keep pressing the wrong key on my iPad and somehow I keep on posting before I’m finished.

        So, to continue:

        Or maybe I’m just too stubborn to quit and walk away. Unlike you, circumstances didn’t work out for me to live elsewhere.

        Maybe you are right, American society is mentally ill. That means I’ve been living in an insane asylum for many years.

        • Arn Varnold November 30, 2013 at 12:15 am #

          @ BB,
          I pretty much agree with what you say, your POV. I was 58 when I left. And yes, circumstances just seemed to be timed exactly right.
          In a horrible relationship, unemployed, and broke. If I’d been 68+ I’m sure I would have left.
          No need to justify one way or another.
          Indeed, society is not healthy, but America’s form of capitalism is infecting Asia. Many changes here from 2003 to the present. Not a good sign.
          Watch Moyers Friday program. He features Wendell Berry.
          He’s a very special guy, so is Moyers for that matter.

          • beantownbill. November 30, 2013 at 12:23 am #

            Arn, I will watch , but it’s 12:15 am here in Boston and I’m tired tonight. I’ll get back to you as soon as I can.

          • Arn Varnold November 30, 2013 at 1:02 am #

            Oops, @ 68+ I probably WOULDN”T have left.

          • Arn Varnold November 30, 2013 at 1:03 am #

            I’ll look forward to that BB.

        • ozone November 30, 2013 at 9:16 am #

          As Tripp is known to quote:
          “It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” -Krishnamurti

          • K-Dog November 30, 2013 at 2:22 pm #

            In the statement well-adjusted means suffering from the same sick delusions and twisted values as everyone else. Being truly well-adjusted in a profoundly sick society and everyone will consider you crazy.

          • ozone November 30, 2013 at 4:48 pm #

            I’m already considered to be somewhat twisted, so I guess I’m somewhat all right! Yikes…

      • ozone November 30, 2013 at 9:12 am #

        Dimitry Orlov’s perspective comes in handy here.
        He advises to stay/move to where you have a common interest and community with others. Plunking yourself into an alien culture in a time of privation and extreme stress will avail you nothing and potentially, make you a target [as an outsider/other].

        • Arn Varnold November 30, 2013 at 10:29 am #

          Bullshit! Orlov has a cult following like JHK.

          Plunking yourself into an alien culture in a time of privation and extreme stress will avail you nothing and potentially, make you a target [as an outsider/other].

          Utter crap! And not born out by experience.
          Tourists mistakenly think their shallow exposure to various cultures gives them some kind of worldly knowledge; bullshit.
          “…as we cruise the astral plain, we can plumb the shallows of each other’s brain.”
          The American experience.

        • K-Dog November 30, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

          “A common interest and community with others.”

          And don’t forget lots of ammo.

          I probably should not have said that. Meant as humour it is the sort of thing that could attract unwanted and unwarranted attention to myself; yet again.

      • ozone November 30, 2013 at 9:32 am #

        See there?
        We pretty much see things the same way. You’re probably in the ‘correct’ portion of the country for the stoic cynic. ;)

  13. ozone November 30, 2013 at 9:26 am #

    Been to S.E. Asia a few times since the late 80′s and the American practice of wanting crap that you don’t need has been creeping in more noticeably with each successive rambling. It really does make people unhappy and spend more time at psyche-destroying work. (It’s important to point out that when we travel, we’ll have a tendency to hop on the local bus, so we get to experience how actual people live, not the manufactured tourist-designed personnas of the ‘big city’… although there’s something to be gained by observing that contrast too.)

    • Arn Varnold November 30, 2013 at 9:49 am #

      I’ve already said that. I’ve been living it for a decade; so what’s your point?

      • ozone November 30, 2013 at 10:45 am #

        I should have said I was speaking to Bill. Sorry.
        (I’m certainly not telling you anything you don’t already know. AND you don’t know my mind, my state of curiosity, my humanist outlook, or my forbearance in keeping my mouth shut and eyes open in foreign cultures. I am the opposite of the “ugly american”, and travel on the dirt-cheap like surfers; so you really aren’t espousing a correct impression of me and mine at all. That comment labeling me as “shallow” was uncalled for and I take real umbrage with it… and I ain’t the umbrage-taking type!)

    • K-Dog November 30, 2013 at 2:09 pm #

      Makes sense to me. If you stay on the tour bus Disyneyland would be cheaper.

      But really how many want to experience different cultures. Don’t most want to just snap as many pictures as they can of the local landmarks so they come home and lord it over Aunt Mabel who won’t ever have enough bling to get where they have been. Travel can be just another form of conspicuous consumption. Or not.

      For those not snapping pictures like there is no tomorrow like Asian tourists do here then seeing different things might for a second or two in that brief pause between breaths cause one to think that the way we live might not all be that great.

      Maybe even that there could be a better way.

      • ozone November 30, 2013 at 5:02 pm #

        “For those not snapping pictures like there is no tomorrow like Asian tourists do here then seeing different things might for a second or two in that brief pause between breaths cause one to think that the way we live might not all be that great.

        Maybe even that there could be a better way.” -K of dog

        That’s for shit sure! Americans’ disconnect from the natural world as a real part of a meaningful social construct is their basic problem; it seems all else [diseased and disintegrated] stems from that.

  14. Q. Shtik November 30, 2013 at 11:43 am #

    I’m curious what Janos’s, or anyone else’s take on this article is. Is Boris Johnson, the mayor of London, an asshole or just a straight shooter?


    • K-Dog November 30, 2013 at 1:57 pm #

      Loved this part:

      And the newspaper suggested that Mr. Johnson’s elite upbringing, including his time at Eton, might have had something to do with causing “his flake to float to the top of the box.”

  15. Q. Shtik November 30, 2013 at 3:49 pm #


    Does any of this match up with your ex-pat experience?


    I don’t know about others here but I wonder what makes a person like yourself identify where they live as ASIA. Awfully vague, don’t you think. Why not something slightly more specific like India, China, Singapore or Japan. Or better yet, Mumbai, Beijing, Tokyo, etc

    Perhaps instead of telling readers here that I live in Central New Jersey I should say I’m located in in the north-western free world.

    • Arn Varnold November 30, 2013 at 4:58 pm #

      Not much really. As I’ve already said, there’s a vast difference between French culture and, say, Vietnamese, Thai, Lao, or Kampuchean culture. S.E. Asia, does that narrow it for you? ;) And I have stated in which country I live.
      Unlike Druckerman, I can’t imagine ever returning to a country I no longer recognize because its a myth which never existed in the first place. But then I also wouldn’t call my self “an American to the core”, but of necessity, acknowledge my nationality when required.
      It’s far too limiting and defining and there is almost nothing about the states or its society with which I’m in agreement. Nationality/nationalism is a very dangerous posture to adopt. I’m human first, everything falls from there.

  16. ozone November 30, 2013 at 5:09 pm #

    One for Arn from Mr. Sagan:


    So long and good luck…

  17. Pucker November 30, 2013 at 6:11 pm #

    Happy Hanukkah!

    Collapse is a product of worshipping the Golden Calf.

    Live a simple life like Moses.

  18. progress4what November 30, 2013 at 6:29 pm #


    And so – is it that far of a jump from here to a headline that says, “Threat of Revealed Porn Habits Used to Keep Leaders in Line?”


    K-Dog November 27, 2013 at 11:20 am #
    “The BLOWBACK from any such foolishness would make our government peepers look like twisted perverts. It might silence one or two dissidents at first but then a sudden flush of fear would cause millions of men, white faced and pale, bloodless with shock to violently snap off their computer switch and yank their plugs from walls all across the country.”

    K, I reposted the link because your comment surprised me so. And because politicians fascinate me, albeit it in a repellent fashion.

    And, please do note that I said “leaders.” The NSA porn data would be used rarely, only against highly placed decision makers – and ONLY to cause them to change _ certain _ decisions of importance to the US Executive Branch, or the Saudis, or Mossad, or whomever.

    *They* would send an email to the “leader” in question. It would contain a copy of his browsing history, perhaps timestamped with his face in orgiastic agony – incontrovertible proof, at any rate.

    And the email would contain a copy of said “leader’s” entire emailing list, wives, voters, business contacts – with a statement that the only way to stop the email from being sent to the email list is to – simply – change ONE certain vote, or one certain political decision.

    What leader could resist such persuasion?

    And – if your group had 20 Senators, a couple of SCOTUS judges, and a few others on the hook like that.

    Pretty soon, you’d have some real power, don’t you think?

    • K-Dog November 30, 2013 at 10:41 pm #

      Your link is to the Washington Post but the summary there references a more expansive article here.

      While I note you reference “leaders” the huff post article says the move would ‘ahem’ have been:

      “A proposed plan to harm the reputations of those whom the agency believes are radicalizing others through incendiary speeches”

      The proposed plan does not reference “leaders” but ordinary dogs whom need to be taught to heel. Abet only Moslem ones are mentioned in the article.

      “Leaders” are much to savy to fall for such a ploy and would exploit such attention into national notoriety in their favor. An average dog on the other hand would be far more likely to be appropriately and effectively disciplined. What would they do? They would be unlikely to turn an inappropriate revealing of ‘porn habits’ to their advantage. Such as contacting the National Enquirer for instance.

      An effort to bring down one lil-ole-inconsequential-dog brings attention to a previously unknown modern cointelpro program splashed across the magazine rack check-stands of every supermarket in the country. That would captivate a bored public and heads would roll no doubt. The avalanche of lawsuits would certainly keep lawyers busy. Purveyors of porn could sue for loss of business as laptops slammed shut and targeted dogs would not be choking the chicken if they initiated legal actions.

  19. progress4what November 30, 2013 at 6:53 pm #

    Interesting discussion between btb and arn on living as an ex-pat.

    And I’m more in agreement with Orlov and Ozone and this statement:
    “He advises to stay/move to where you have a common interest and community with others. Plunking yourself into an alien culture in a time of privation and extreme stress will avail you nothing and potentially, make you a target [as an outsider/other].”

    So, Arn, maybe you can elaborate and convince me I’m wrong.

    Or, maybe we’re using different definitions for “privation and extreme stress.”

    At times of such extreme stress I want to be around my own family, and I want to be on my own home turf, if humanly possible.

    One more thing, expressed by one of my favorite commenters at the Arch Druid’s place:

    “Only and truly only in the West that particular trait in person is seen as an virtue, not as vice, abandoning your own kin…”
    ….juhana, a native Finn, commenting at ADR….

    • Arn Varnold November 30, 2013 at 8:16 pm #

      First off; Orlov is not correct, IMO. Just another failed predictor of a future which does not yet exist. The future can not be known or predicted for that reason.
      Knowing the present can inform of possibilities. I keep my own council and don’t put my lot with any ideologues or philosophies.
      Change is what’s happening; in and of itself it’s (change) not a bad thing. But, I don’t like the changes I see and the apparent direction they’re taking. People fear change and I see Orlov as feeding off of that fear. This has mostly to do with my value system and my humanist thinking. Few societies are human friendly or healthy and America seems to be the trend setter here. But that doesn’t mean the apocalypse is upon us.

      As to other? Look in your own back yard; the U.S. is dominated by a fear of other; black, poor, Latino, Asian, Christian, Jew, atheist, tea party, republican, democrat, and socialist/communist.
      The irony is not lost on me; you worry about expatiating and other; seems you have plenty to go around right there in your own back yard.
      Community can be inclusive or exclusive; I mostly hear it being exclusive when discussed on this forum.

  20. progress4what November 30, 2013 at 7:01 pm #

    That’s a pretty good article to provoke some discussion, Q.

    I had to check it out on another British news site to get some comments.

    And it looks like the Brits may be better thinkers and commenters than many in the US – at least based on this particular sample. There was almost ZERO mention of race, on the Independent comment board. Some troll in the States would have derailed the discussion completely and quickly, calling “racism.”

    Anyway, I’ve gotta’ run, so here’s a comment to express some of my views:

    ” meliorist Janner
    • 14 hours ago
    Who said it was supposed to be startling? It’s just reminding the audience of a basic fact. Those kids with IQs below 85 are guaranteed to fail in school, and are therefore locked out of most careers. They are at a disadvantage in society.
    Conversely, those who are lucky to have IQs in the top 2% have far more opportunities. The city is full of academic high fliers who sailed through school and got first class degrees from elite universities. The high-paying professions hoover up these kids, and pay them handsomely for the use of their brains.
    Boris is saying that this lucky group should do more to help the unlucky group who find themselves at the other end of the scale.”


    • K-Dog November 30, 2013 at 11:09 pm #

      From the article:

      “That Johnson was being “fairly unpleasant” by talking about people as if they were a breed of dog”

      Pisses me off right there!

      But the end of the article says it all:

      “One of the strongest correlations of financial and economic success is still the size of your parents’ bank account – and whether they could afford to send you to a posh school with impeccable social connections.”

  21. rube-i-con November 30, 2013 at 9:22 pm #

    Community can be inclusive or exclusive; I mostly hear it being exclusive when discussed on this forum.

    its ‘funny’, as they say in the States. here in brazil, most things are lousily built, it’s a hassle to shop, drive, get documents, due to the national pasttime of trying to get one over on everybody else.

    ‘funny’ enough, though, community here feels very inclusive, much more so than the united states. although my experience there is all on the east coast, and folks tell me california, with its good weather like brazil, is more inclusive.

    inclusive here means people getting together scads and having a good time rapping, eating, music blaring. it’s all ages too, tots to the elderly, which i think is a blessing. makes you feel natural.

    i think that’s y i stay in this somewhat forsaken, and very trying, country.

    peace peaceniks

    • Arn Varnold November 30, 2013 at 10:14 pm #

      Interesting; I was born and raised in NYC and out on the island (Long).
      When we moved into a new house the neighbors would come over and introduce themselves.
      We moved to Oregon when I was 12 and I found it very unfriendly and the neighbors not willing to self introduce. The best description of Oregonians (western) I’ve heard is; they’re willing to be friendly but not friends.
      After spending 3 weeks in L.A. I couldn’t wait to get out, the people I was in contact with were shit and the most materialistic I’ve ever encountered.
      Living where I do is not “easy” mostly because of language. The majority of westerners can’t or don’t speak the language. This makes them very dependent on their spouses or girlfriends. While I’m not fluent (my opinion, which others disagree), I can go anywhere by myself and operate independently. My wife speaks English (she’s an English teacher) quite well; that combined with my own laziness, has kept me from mastering the language to what I would deem fluency.
      I understand why people (westerners) have trouble and don’t stay, it seems to be working for me.

  22. Neon Vincent November 30, 2013 at 10:23 pm #

    In Atlanta, the Braves and Cobb County are doubling down on sprawl.

    The Braves, and some pundits, argue that the new stadium will be part of a larger, “walkable” development project, and that Cobb County really is increasingly as urban as the city of Atlanta. Unfortunately a walkable island floating in a sea of car-centric sprawl does not replicate the experience of urbanity. Indeed, various political leaders in Cobb County have already announced that any transportation infrastructure improvements related to the new stadium will focus exclusively on adding more automobile-centered capacity and will exclude any efforts to add public transportation capacity linking the new stadium to the city after which the franchise is named.


    • K-Dog November 30, 2013 at 10:59 pm #

      The Article ends with:

      “It is worth remembering that these sorts of deals over the past three decades, if not longer, have been shown to benefit mostly very wealthy team owners, generally at the expense of the communities in which their new, shiny stadiums are located.”

      It’s easy to forget that sports teams are not about ‘community’ but all about big business. Big business cares for profits and if big business pays attention to walk-ability or any other public concerns it is for public relations reasons only. Public relations to increase profits. I can imagine a super-rich private owner incorporating other values but the problem there is that sports teams can easily loose money so there is a lot of pressure to keeping profits as the number one priority.

  23. K-Dog December 1, 2013 at 12:47 am #

    daytrip posted the first of a series of eight short videos by Albert A. Bartlett earlier this week.

    Al Bartlett regarded the word combination “sustainable growth” as an oxymoron and believed the greatest fault of modern times is our inability to understand the exponential function. Understanding of this rather simple mathematical concept is suppressed because if it is understood by large numbers of people the existing power structure of America and the Western World will be turned over.

    The understanding of the exponential function is so dangerous to the powers that be that shills regularly inhabit this blog to prevent it being understood and discussed. Jim Kunstler writes extensively on the consequences of unrestrained growth. An example can be found in this weeks article:

    One technical analyst, celebrity Tweeter Ralph Acampora of Altaira Wealth Management, actually said this week that the USA would be “energy independent by 2016.” That’s rich. We’d only have to come up with 8.5 million new barrels of oil a day, or give up driving cars altogether.

    I found the seventh of the series to be particularly impactful and post the link to it below. I encourage everyone to watch all eight of Al’s short videos. Al has a website which hosts all eight videos which I linked to at the start of this comment.


  24. Arn Varnold December 1, 2013 at 9:17 am #

    Watch this and live, or watch this and die; the choice is up to you;

    It’s based on a Chris Hedges, “The Death of the Liberal Class”.
    Which I think is already dead and gone.
    We’re done and toast…finished; kiss you’re asses goodbye…

    • K-Dog December 1, 2013 at 12:20 pm #

      “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies on the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you’ve got to make it stop! And you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!”Mario Savio

      Obedience school sucks and don’t be anyone’s bitch.

  25. K-Dog December 1, 2013 at 1:09 pm #

    daytrip and I have been advocating watching AL Bartlett’s lecture this week.

    Watching it myself I’ve made an observation which is worth sharing here.

    All sorts of naysayers are always showing up to criticize Jim’s predictions of the future. Where the Dow is going to be ect. Things like that Usually these types show up fart our a one liner or two and vanish with a suspicious consistency of presentation. Never mind the consistency of presentation I’m not going there now.

    The interesting thing is that AL Bartlett in his lecture points out that bacteria experiencing exponential growth will fill a glass jar but that as they grow the bacteria in the jar will not be aware of being overcrowded until just before they totally fill the jar. The thought experiment of course assumes bacteria are intelligent which they’re not and is only intended to demonstrate a mathematical fact.

    Applying the lesson to resource depletion and social collapse we can essentially expect everything to be fine right up to the time everything falls apart. The real world is not the simple world of a nutrient filled glass jar and we are not bacteria so things are a bit more complicated than Al Bartlett’s thought experiment. We feel the stress of overcrowding and those in contact with reality will attempt to predict the future here and there. That predictions are off does not mean that they are essentially wrong. It means that the world is a more complicated place than a jar and that mitigating factors are postponing the inevitable and making it less perceptible. Postponing but not preventing. Bacteria in a jar would not have come up with ‘Quantitative Easing’ for instance to artificially make their jar bigger for a little while.

    Unfortunately the conclusion to my musing is not pleasant and leads to a Seneca Cliff. Reason being that band-aid solutions don’t really solve problems they treat symptoms and treating symptoms only works for temporary problems that naturally go away. Having only one planet to live on with finite resources means our problems are anything but temporary.

    The only answer is a fundamental change in living arrangements.

    • K-Dog December 1, 2013 at 1:15 pm #

      And my typos are.

      Things like that. Usually

      Reason being that band-aid solutions don’t really solve problems. They treat symptoms and treating symptoms only works for temporary problems that naturally go away.

    • Arn Varnold December 2, 2013 at 1:15 am #

      We’re acting so human. Instead of leading a thoughtful life through good/sustainable choices; we’ll be forced to follow the looming disaster of mindless followers.

      As to Jim’s predictions; he sets himself up to be proved wrong. He be far more effective and prescient doing the things Bartlett’s doing.
      I do miss his podcast, he’s got a talent there, IMO.

  26. Widok December 1, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

    The Obey/Rebel video was professionally done. It took money and backing to get it produced and distributed. I wonder who or what is behind it? The professional polish the video exudes belies its message. The video is an example of what it purports, therefore it shouldn’t be taken seriously. Any serious challenge to the system will not be professionally produced and televised. Yet another imposter. I’d say “nice try,” but it was neither nice nor a try.

    • K-Dog December 1, 2013 at 5:32 pm #

      Your criticism is as lame as a dog with a mangy paw. Those were not multi million dollar special effects but for the most part carefully selected public domain clips. Well done and professionally looking yes, glad you liked it.

      An excerpt from Temujin Doran Documenting Distopia

      I read that the film is made entirely from web clips. How long did it take to assemble them into the final product?

      I started the film in September last year and finished in February this year. I did it in my spare time, but it was quite a laborious process of just hunting the web for the right clip to use. I really think I’ve seen far too much of the internet in the last six months.

      Beyond your lie which a simple web search clearly demonstrates you commit a logical fallacy.

      You assume that any serious challenge to the system cannot come from the system itself. This is a false assumption as many perhaps most who represent the system are not inherently evil but are blind followers who would be willing to follow another way which leads to a more satisfying life if they had an opportunity to do so. Some of them abet a small number will willingly laugh in the devils face and take stands based on conscience if they have the opportunity and can be shown where the watering hole truly is. Not all of us are weak with damaged souls such as yourself.

      Any serious challenge to the system by the system is unlikely but the system itself is not a thing with a soul though it superficially appears to be. Consequently the system is assigned anthropomorphic properties which can lead to logical fallacy. However I don’t think your criticism is the result of a mistake. I think you are one of the genuine evil ones who see only your own shadow as you strut through life.

  27. Q. Shtik December 1, 2013 at 11:40 pm #

    Lotsa penis enlargement email arrives in my spam folder but the latest one I thought was pretty clever…it’s called COCKZILLA.


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