Kudlow is engaging in sleight-of-hand, no doubt. He's counting all that kerogen in western U.S. shale deposits as "oil", and then adding it to the U.S. P+P reserve number for actual oil.

The current Time magazine article on U.S. fracked oil is at least somewhat more honest, as the author freely admits that fracked oil will always be very expensive to produce, and that no matter how much of it is pumped out of the ground, the overall trend cost of oil and gasoline is only going to go up.

Extension of the Keystone XL pipeline from Oklahoma to the Gulf Coast will further exacerbate the problem; as all that stranded Canadian tar sands oil reaches Gulf ports for shipment worldwide, the price differential between WTI and Brent crude will disappear, with the price level moving in the direction of the higher Brent price.

I doubt you could get to a trillion barrels even with that sleight of hand. Of course one can make all the pretty maps one wants to if one is dishonest as Kudlow has clearly identified himself to be.

Ouch! That kind of glittering, rose-colored, hubristic, pretend journalism ensures that bidnez as usual will blunder on unimpeded, I suppose.

I guess it's like "they" say: "If you can't blind 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit."

Once the EROEI goes negative it does not matter how much there is out there or how much it costs. It would be like:

Water, water, every where, nor any drop to drink

But of course the idea that we have any such significant reserve is total fantasy.

"Strange that a little old 50s chevy pickup with a blue flame six
can do the same job of hauling old mattresses from Arkansas
to Kalyforny as a new Dodge Ram. Meanwhile, as JHK says, we
print the money to pay for our imports. -so far, so good." -US Bob

That's right; and it all goes along quite swimmingly until somebody says, "Heeeeeeey... wait just a gol-durn minute here." Soon we'll see who can be bought, and who might place some value in their sovereignty.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30955.htm

(Now, you'll notice that this is one of those commentaries that insists that gold is the one-and-only real store of value. I don't totally agree, but the stuff IS rare and portable; and the Chinese are collecting a large mountain of the stuff. He makes his point about the illusive value of fiat currencies and the muscle behind it, regardless.)

"Whats with the whole "quObama" thing anyway?" -D

Dee,
I believe that would be K-dog's shorthand for "STATUS quObama", which is succinct and nicely accurate. ;o)

So, Isjogren, the economists are right then. Oil will always be available at some price. :-)

ccm989, you sound like a follower of John Michael Greer (Green Wizard/alternative-energy-you-can-install-yourself guru).

Steve,
Respectfully, I really don't think it's necessary to point out that first issue at this juncture; we'll be getting a snoot-full of it from the gum'mint distractionary agent provocateurs shortly.
(Believe me, you'll see!)

I clicked and saw the Mexicans so I stopped watching the link.
Amazing where theres ebt/foodstamps/school lunch programs. [and now school breakfast and dinner programs].
Amazing that BHO has not been run out of office.
Weve 1 in 6/ on EBT. Most black men are unemployed
[I assume they want to work].
Michelle Obama just jetted to Vegas while BHO took his 93? golf day!

Someone reports the Mexican kids on the school lunch
program 'All have 400$[?] Iphones, Ipads, etc].
The 'new' poverty.
Only in white Christian countries.

The quObama thing is because the man who campaigned on change we can believe in turns out to have been placed in office by the most well orchestrated PR campaign in history. To a careful listener even his acceptance speech showed the beginnings of the betrayal to come. I was listening to an old podcast recently with several progressive speakers who were drunk with enthusiasm of the change to come. It was just after his election. One said that we finally have "A rocket Scientist in the White House". Turns out the man doesn't understand science at all and may be mathematically challenged.

A housing development can be named 'Pheasant Ridge' but the act of building the development displaces all the pheasants. The election of Obama has displaced any hope of change in the same way. In the face of evidence to the contrary people want so badly to believe in him that most still believe he is working for change but doing it behind the scenes. Such a belief is totally irrational but we want to believe in him so badly we choose stupidity. People wanted change so badly they believed him and gave him their votes without really looking at the man and who he really was.

Obama was placed in office by Wall Street and we the people bought his deception hook line and sinker. We were told what PR focus groups had determined would sell and it turned out to be 'change'.

So:

Status quo => quObama

Status quo means avoiding change at all cost. The powers that be like power and want to retain it. The powers that be (0.1%) don't want to share power or give it up and they will absolutely destroy society in order to keep it. We are not of their tribe so they care nothing of us. Those in power think they are special as we all do unless we become enlightened. That's human nature.

K-Dog for President I'm for change and I mean it.

Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky knew he was bullshit from the git go, as did I.

Theres a site devoted solely to the horrors of
the NY Times.'CRIMES OF THE TIMES' Blog.

Yes theres the 'Psychology of Previous Investment'
or Denial of 'diminishing returns'.
And some with lung cancer keep smoking.

Precisely PRD. It is simply unimaginable to the 99% that the American way of life as we know it merely looks alive, while in fact it is already DOA. I run into the 'end of the conversation' issue all...the...time. Unless you tow the company line that the recovery is under way and we are returning to 'growth', nobody wants to hear it. It just absolutely amazes and baffles me how and what is holding this CF 'recovery' up! Well..the bitter fact is....nothing. Nothing at all is holding it up but the faith of the stupid consumer dolts who continue to piss away money in the absurd belief that they will garner any 'return' of consequence: "Siddown pigeon...you put yer money in when we tell ya, ya take it out when we tell ya".
I am reminded of a coworker who spent his weekend mowing his five acres of America. I asked him why he just didn't let it grow up to meadow; it is a much more diverse habitat than a mowed sterile expanse. Eyes blinking, he responded that his wife liked everything neat and tidy. Uh huh. Then I asked what he was going to do when there was no more oil to run his mower? Eyes blinking. He had no answer. The next day he proudly reported that he read about a guy who was going to make oil from grass clippings! Problem solved, he thought. Well I couldn't leave it alone, so I pressed him further. So you are going to mow your lawn and use the clippings to make more oil so you can mow your lawn? Did that seem sustainable to him? He proudly said yes. Uh huh, So, I asked him if he was familiar with the 90/10 principle; that for every step in an energy or food chain only 10 per cent is passed on, the other 90 per cent is lost to heat, friction and waste. Eyes blinking. no response. That is what we are up against.

Yes, Fareed also pollutes Time /Newsweek.
Hes a creep and Muslim as well.
But one of those 2 mags had the cover
'IS USA ISLAMOPHOBIC'!!!!!!!!!! [DUH]

So, MDG, for the U.S. to become energy independent based on natural gas, that would mean, what? Most autos and trucks would have to run on CNG. I suspect that any serious attempt to do so would very quickly drawn down those fracked natural gas reserves, and the price of it would skyrocket. So, the U.S. would then have to pay high oil, gasoline, AND natural gas prices. Lovely.

Meanwhile, atmospheric CO2 would continue chugging along in an upward direction.

Hey Dog, I went to your site and see that you are discussing a book titled "To Smart for Our Own Good." Is that title correct or should it be "Too Smart...?" I realize a case could be made for "To" if the kind of "smart" being referred to is "endure pain" but if that is the case you need to explain it. I found several other typing errors in your commentary as well. As a presidential candidate you need to be more careful.

In LaLa land theres 'BlueBird Liquor'. Online was a
picture of 2 smiling blacks. I assumed they had won Lottery $ as they looked overjoyed.
NO! They were happy because after 3 hours in line they were able to get into the store to buy a ticket! 3 hours to get into BB liquor.
Ya see at the store someone had won 130 million dollars and there have been other winners.

THE NEW CARGO CULT. Wait 3 hours to buy a lotto ticket.

Thanks I'll fix it. You're quite right.

Thanks I fixed it. You're quite right.

Your point is taken but is the bar really that high?

As Mike Whitney pointed out the major new credit is for subprime auto loans which were exempted due to pressure from the Auto Addiction Lobby from the new
financial regulations, weak as they are.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/03/14/subprime-at-the-car-lot/

I suspect there will be a lot of these gas-guzzlers repossessed with no buyers in sight.

That's not made up. It's a fairly common word, or at least it was, until the 21st century of lost literary ability.

...if one is dishonest as Kudlow has clearly identified himself to be.
===========

I don't know if dishonest is the right word but leave it to Jim to come up with the perfect descriptor, "popinjay." I would have bet serious money that Larry was gay but I googled his bio and found he is/was a thrice married coke head. See below:

Kudlow converted to Catholicism and entered a twelve-step program to deal with his addictions to cocaine and alcohol in the mid-1990s. Kudlow was persuaded to convert to Catholicism by Father C. John McCloskey III.[18]

Kudlow has been married three times, most recently in 1986 to Judith Pond. Kudlow lives in Redding in Fairfield County in southwestern Connecticut. His hobbies include tennis and golf[citation needed]. He had hip replacement surgery in mid July 2005.[citation needed]

"Meanwhile, black Americans are on the edge of rebellion over the Trayvon Martin case (and who cna blame them?)"
Who can blame them? How about anyone that believes we are better off living in a society that operates under the rule of law instead of mob rule?
From what I have read there is enough evidence to suggest that Trayvon initiated the physical confrontation. If that turns out to be true then Zimmerman could have been justified in using deadly force.
This is far from a clear case of racism as the media wants to portray it. Instead of fanning the flames we should be encouraging those that wish to incite violence to take a look at the facts.

What the hell does Fareed Zakaria's religion have to do with this, Antisoak?

Kaiho,

Thanks. Aside from the frakking environmental problems themselves, I'm even more concerned about natural gas' contribution to Global Warming. I hope that you and others more knowledgeable on the topic can write more about it.

prestidigitate -To perform magic with the hands or using sleight of hand.

People rationalize the continual purchase of gasoline for gas guzzlers (or not) in some of the following ways:

*Avoid the five dollar cup of Starbucks and settle for a 7/11 special instead.
*Avoid the 7/11 special and bring their own from home.
*Begin cutting back of the amount of coffee they drink and bring from home.
*Begin cutting back on the amount of coffee they buy.

Eventually, a dog-chasing-its-own-tail dynamic is in effect; peripheral multipliers begin to divide themselves into economic black holes as gas prices rise. Although consumer demand for gasoline remains somewhat unaffected in the initial stages - people have to get to work after all - demand for other products begins to wane. Pretty soon the Starbucks and grocery store employee have lost their jobs and they no longer have a need to drive to work, or to their favorite place to spend disposable income.

It’s an economic death spiral.

you really are a clown if you don't even bother
to check if the word exists b4 disparaging jhk.

jeezis, ever tried google?

How come all your rationalizations involve coffee? I'm not criticizing, just wondering. :)

You can always count on soaky making irrelevant, fearmongering comments about other people's race and religion. Anyone who isn't like him is a bugaboo. He's a lil scaredy cat, poor thing. It is a real wonder he even gets out of bed in the morning.

"Hes a creep and Muslim as well."

Oh, but to your pea-sized brain, isn't that completely redundant?

MDG,

As far as global warming goes, 500 ppm CO2 by 2100 is already baked in the cake. After the failure of Copenhagen 2009, world leaders committed themselves to a carbon-intensive strategy for powering the world economy. The only way to bring global warming under a measure of control would be a firm commitment to leave all this expensive-to-produce oil and nat gas in the ground, but the world-wide trend is in exactly the opposite direction.

Actually as Jim Kunstler has pointed out for years there is another option to get around without burning 4-5-6- $7 gasoline in autos. Use Green Transit!

For myself with Bush Jr's income tax rebate I bought myself a folding bike which is allowed on all NYC area trains. (and buses in theory although where would you put it without a bike rack???)
My community fought the 40% train cuts to our town initiated by neo-liberal Gov Corzine in 2008 and restored enough of our trains that I can walk to my train station. Total monthly cost for my commute to work? Only $100 per month after the pretax transit benefit! Which I can also use to ride the train 24x7 which I do whenever possible.

When are Americans going to insist we need to just RUN THE TRAINS we already have??!!

As I have pointed out before, the US has a lot more potential for Green transit than the Auto Addiction pushers ever let us know - a Brookings study May, 2011 found that 70% of working age Americans in 100 US Metro areas ALREADY live only 3/4ths mile from a Transit stop. However due to the lack of service only 30% can get to a job in less than 90 minutes and that is during peak service hours.

See http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2011/0512_jobs_and_transit.aspx

for details...

I suppose I have been cut off too many times by aggressive drivers juiced up on java. But it could be anything. Instead of driving to the gym, people might buy their own piece of exercise equipment to work out on at home, saving both gas and gym dues.

As an aside, have you seen the price of automobile tires as a result of oil prices - ouch!

but is the bar really that high?
==============

No, but it desperately needs raising.

And just as bad, neoliberal Gov Cuomo refused to even ask for a Millionaire's Tax and is bragging about how for the 2nd year in a row, by colluding with Teabag Republicans, he has passed a budget on time keeping the MTA on life support instead of expansion.

Meanwhile, despite a local uprising for SOME form of Green public transit on the proposed $5 Billion new Tappan Zee bridge instead of just 2 new highway lanes, Cuomo is also ramming through a highway Auto -addiction only new Tappan Zee bridge with support from the Obama administration.

http://www.tstc.org/press/2012/033012_Tappan_Zee_Comments_Full.pdf

Hi Welles! How's things down in Brazil?

Brazil is going to be the honored country/invited country at this year's International Book Fair in Bogota, Colombia, later this month.

Last year I was watching the USA National Book Fair on C-Span and the announcer proudly announced that the Book Fair had expanded to two days.

The annual International Book Fair in Bogota is two weeks long and this year there are 400 cultural events planned during those two weeks. There will be 400 authors from all over the world and dozens of forums and "conversations," i.e. interdisciplinary meetings with the public.

At these events the public interacts with authors of high literary quality of different nationalities, as well as engaging in conversations with historians, philosophers, journalists, etc. at public forums.

Thousands of people line up at the gates of the convention center and pay to get in and have an opportunity to exchange ideas with leading international authors they have read.

The USA is a cultural wasteland compared to South America. Bogota is not called the "Athens of South America" for nothing.

Both Colombia and the USA have their problems with drugs, crime, poverty, etc., but Colombia has the advantage when it comes to cultural and intellectual life. Ni hablar de rumbear!

As I said to MDG, the world's leaders have committed themselves to a carbon-intensive strategy for powering the world's economy to 2100. It's baked in the cake.

Welles,

You make some good points but you come off pretty cavalier at the same time and I'll tell you why I think so.

You don't acknowledge the potential for catastrophe in the lag time between conceiving an idea/solution and actualizing it.

And let's face it, those bright enough to actually realize a solution to the oil issue are probably bright enough to realize there was a problem coming down the road long ago. Now I recall Jimmy Carter mentioning this issue way back in the late 70s and still no real viable solution is available despite, as you assert, the incredible profits to be made.

Can you point to something more concrete than Okie optimism?

prestidigitate to perform a bit of MAGIC

Bogota is not called the "Athens of South America" for nothing.
===========

Whoever (whomever?) said Bogota is the "Athens of South America" must have been thinking of an Athens of long long ago because Athens today is an effed-up shithole.

The Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi MIEV are almost totally independent of the oil and gas industry (but only on the user end). Check out the myleaf forum for many happy stories from people paying less than 4 cents per mile instead of 20+ and rising rapidly.

That 4 cents per mile for the Nissan Leaf is, of course, based on current electricity prices. As oil and gas goes up, that price will go up as well. Still, a Nissan Leaf can be a good option for some people.

For simple commuting, though, it's hard to beat a Vespa scooter or Honda 250cc motorcycle (70-90 mpg).

Always wear your helmet.

Appreciate your curmudgeonly optimism, welles. Though I take issue with the idea that there are man-made "solutions" to all of the man-made "problems" which are out there. To put it bluntly, there is no way that you could know this with any confidence. Only time will tell, and berating people to compost and carpool ain't going to cut it. Whether or not there are workable solutions that can be implemented is highly sensitive to the particular parameters of any given problem. Read "The Ingenuity Gap" on this matter (fascinating book).

And if you take the somewhat long view, say a couple hundred years, I don't see how you look at the mess we've already made of the planet in
the rather historically short period of industrialization and determine that we'll muddle through just fine going forward, especially considering that current population levels are not
sustainable (not even close really). From what I see, especially regarding the so-called "externalities" like pollution and global
warming, we're going in exactly the opposite (and wrong) direction.

Does all that mean that the world will end? No, probably not. I imagine humans will be around for some time. However, if it went that way, Nature doesn't care. Planets abundant in water with a breathable atmosphere that can support life are not a statistically favored configuration. Most of the universe is a
barren, lifeless wasteland, and if that's what the earth gets turned into via our civilization, that would be fine and dandy as far as
Nature is concerned.

Welles,

Regarding your comments on global warming: thank you for providing today's comic relief.

NBC admits that they doctored the George Zimmerman tape. The dipatcher asked him the race -he didn't just say a Black up to no good. They are "shocked" and promise "an internal investigation". Now you see Turk, normal people are concerned when the Media starts making shit up. Pea Brains like you don't even understand what all the fuss is about.

Stay strong Welles. Thank you for standing up against the Global Terror of the Man Made Global Warming Cult. They admit now they want to lock up "deniers" and that all people should be forced to live in cities - except for the Elite no doubt.

Right, Vlad. The glaciers aren't melting and neither is the permafrost. The ocean levels will not rise. Global average temperatures are not going up. All 99% of climate scientists who agree on this issue are part of a global conspiracy that wants to make you live in an urban slum. That's because it is so easy to get scientists to agree on an issue with 90%+ consensus. You must know this, being such a well-connected insider.

What I understand is that you're defending some trigger-happy, self-appointed vigilante shlub who decided that a kid in a hoodie going home with a bag of Skittles needed to be gunned down for no good reason, other than that he "looked suspicious." Do I have that right? Fill me in on the details, because I assume you've got all of them, like usual, unlike the rest of us blind, uninformed loony liberals.

Or have you stumbled upon yet another one of your vast Left Wing conspiracies?

And, BTW, what does this topic have to do with anything we've been talking about here, anyways?

"NBC admits that they doctored the George Zimmerman tape."

*shrugs*

Vlad doctors posts on kunstler.com every week.

"normal people are concerned when the Media starts making s*** up"

I think that's quite a stretch to identify yourself with "normal people", Vladski.

True, but the present 5-1 cost ratio will continue and probably improve as gas prices go up faster than electrons. Plus I can make my own electricity but I can't make my own gas, at least not easily.

Scooters are great - my Chinese Honda clone is coming out of winter storage today. Big savings on parking, too. In town I can park for free on the sidewalk, as long as it is behind the property line (entry and window alcoves of large buildings). Helmets, flags and rugged clothing are musts.

Vlad, you're nuts. You're off your rocker.

Now, please be so kind as to eat every single one of those little cubes of tofu in your thrice-daily portions of miso soup.

Japanese people are counting on you to stick with the program.

"Vlad, you're nuts. You're off your rocker."

Oh, gee, ya think?!

Interesting article by Bill McKibben:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/07/why-energy-industry-so-invested-climate-denail

The most striking part is the photo of the Western Hemisphere in January 2012. A lot of change since 1972...

Vlad Krantz is the "black sheep" of CFN, though somehow, given his views on race, I think he would take offense to that analogy.

"Again - Obama is Luo for Hindenburg, and you all know who succeeded that German president."

Ummmm......Lakehurst?

Bill Clintons talking about the case'. I assume in hopes the spin will favor BHO.
Odd since theres talk [obama files.com] That Obamas
people engaged in voter fraud against Hillary!

I saw a Blog recently that happily declared:
DOW WAY UP SINCE OBAMA ELECTED!!! WOW O WOW.

For simple commuting, though, it's hard to beat a Vespa scooter or Honda 250cc motorcycle (70-90 mpg).
===========

Yeah, weather permitting.

Beliefs [religion] make all the difference, in some cases.
Does that answer yr question?
And do you believe in hell? You used the word?

Yes, here in West LA area Yoga is BIG! I wonder why these folks keep going to classes, year after year.
One told me ' I get a better workout'!
Well if s/he walked that hour they drove to class that would be quite a workout.

Did you mention something about the Grateful Dead?
friends of mine had worked for them long ago.

So I know this might come as a shock to you soaky, but some people like to go out and interact socially with others, including in their yoga and exercise classes. Not everyone is content to sit in their apartment day after day, trolling the internet with grammatically questionable postings to CFN.

I guess some of the yoga types probably get all preachy about being "green" and so forth, even though they drive to class, but that's just Americans for you. We're generally a bunch of navel-gazing hypocrites.

You da man!

Er...lady.

She doesn't say much about community, though, or even simple teamwork. Gen. Patton had a point when he said

Now, an army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of crap. The bilious bastards who wrote that stuff about individuality for the Saturday Evening Post [or the Mother Earth News, I might add], don't know anything more about real battle than they do about fornicating.

Isolated, individualist survivalist compounds can easily be surrounded and starved out, if TSHTF.

An Inquiring Mind, so you disagree with JHK's contention that everything in the U.S. is now nothing more than "A Matrix of Rackets"

Hmmm.

Definition #22 of 36 from Urban Dictionary:

shithole

noun, adjective

anything you would like it to be. can be used in a verious amount of ways, most of which are negative or bad.
also used as an emphasis in sentences.

Que?

The funeral director who handled Martin's body told Nancy Grace there were no cuts, bruises or signs of a fight on Martin's body.

I didn't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody
-- Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale

"black sheep", with you being the counterpoint?
The white creep?

Urbandictionary is not a source you respect, Q.

In fact, you have openly disparaged urbandictionary in the past. Now you cite it.

Intellectual honesty is a thing of the past, also.

You're a sap Mr Jap. At least you admit Edgar Cayce was right: Japan will sink beneath the waves due to global warming.

Today's new showed the enhanced footage. The massive cut on the back of his head is clearly visbile.

Now how many Whites are you hoping will die in the coming race riots due to this nonsense?

Vlad, the Combined Fleet's already on its way to New Zealand. :-)

And for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywc4Sz88jw0&feature=related

The "I hate everyone" guy calls me a creep. I'll take that as a compliment.

AFAIK...

He called his girlfriend and said (basically), "Someone is following me, and I'm scared. What should I do?"

While walking home from the store where he purchased some Skittles.

Yeah, that really sounds like someone out looking for trouble...

In a totally related incident, both Skittles and bottled ice tea have been flying off American store shelves these past few weeks.

Ah, your bestest internet friend OEO is back with a new account, after his 30 other ones were blacklisted.

Well, for a few a little while at least, until he gets banned again...

Anyone like to place some bets on how long that will take?

Probably not, but starvation will.

If you're willing to broaden your definition of "solution", then I suppose all problems can be solved.

What's this "news" of which you speak? The guy has some marks on the top of his head, which if caused by the scuffle, would have sent him to the hospital. Where's all the blood? Why didn't he go to the hospital and receive 50 stitches for his supposedly severe wounds?

Zimmerman's brother was the only person that claimed he was severely injured that evening, and he's lying. All other witnesses have claimed he was uninjured.

Your attempts to incriminate some poor innocent murdered kid, simply because of the color of his skin, are simply reprehensible, and a new low, which is pretty impressive coming from you.

Steel is up to almost $300. Even our railroads, all both of them, are picking up the old spikes and clips that work loose from the tracks. I wish we had some trains around here. If you're from NYC or LA, it's easy to say "Take the train" or "Take the subway". We don't have any, and neither does most of fly-over country. Also, a large pick-up is necessary for farming. You know, farms where food is produced? It doesn't come from the grocery store, you know. You can't haul fertilizer or hay in a Volt.

We have our newer, very pretty house up for sale, (as in good luck with that) and have made an offer for a 1930s bungalow with natural air circulation and lots of shade. If it can be sufficiently insulated, it should be much cheaper to heat and cool. Even hot, dry Kansas and Oklahoma were bearable if you could get the cooler air of morning and evening inside and block out the hot afternoon temps. The County will hate it because we won't be paying the outrageous taxes on the newer house, but I'll love it. (We kept the seven acres with the pond, gardens, orchard and woods.)

Good luck, Jim, on your health "problems". My great aunt Grace died at 104 with a cholesterol reading of over 300, and most of my aunts and uncles are going strong at 80 and 90+ with very high readings. (Dairy farmers and teachers) Those ages are acceptable to me. Attaboy for standing up to the medical mafia.

You want more talk on NG? I only have one question. Can I get you to pay the increased cost delta for heating my house and cooking my food in the future when you and your fellow NG happy motorists contribute to NG pricing increases?

And once again we see the court break down along ideological lines in a 5-4 decision. And once again it was the conservative wing of the court -appointed by Republicans - who voted for this abomination.

And why did you forget to mention THAT?

haha joke's on you pal, as you get taxed to death
to 'save' the planet and have to get 13 authorisations to get a car, then have a 'carbon tax' autodeducted from your salary. and if you
exceed your allotted 'carbon' allowance (haha) you'll get fined.

so you can cancel that trip to see your family, too many miles and co2 emitted (your aged mother can just lump it, the planet's more important than her, and if she dies b4 you see her oh well at least your carbon 'footprint' [hahahahah] wasn't overstepped so you can feel good about that).

oh and you emit co2 when you breathe out so we'll have to tax that or you might have to live fewer years.

...because that's where this is all going. get everyone real sceerd about 'the planet's getting hotter' then bam! they'll do (and pay) anything the appointed gurus (pollys) say.

so enjoy it, while millions of others simply take moderate steps to improve/maintain the environment...easy enough to do.

btw did you get rid of your car yet and give up travel and eating meat (cows belch methane) and using plastics and stop going *anywhere* cuz it's really not necessary and uses fossil fuels and my my heats up kansas' atmosphere.

go back and read The End of Prosperity about how we'd be out of many minerals and metals by the 1980s or 90s.

except the opposite happened

Next, read The Great Depression of 1990 (haha)

...where is that one btw? must've missed it

Next, read the famous comment from IBM's president that there was only a worldwide market for 5 computers (hahahah)

and then that people would never fly.

the road only goes forward.

peace peaceniks

It isn't just CO2 you maroon. It is the entire cornucopia of carbon-based molecules we spew into the atmosphere that causes these problems. And planting a few trees doesn't even come close to being enough to offset this.

Now I'll kindly ignore everything else you have to say on this topic, because obviously, you don't know the first thing about it.

"the road only goes forward."

Says the Roman citizen circa 450 AD.

Or a Mayan just before the Spanish conquest.

You get the idea...

Yep we'll take your word for it then. since you're smarter.

peace peaceniks

So, a couple of books were overly pessimistic and made inaccurate predictions about the future.

Therefore, you conclude that everything is going to be fine, ad infinitum.

I fail to see how that makes any logical sense, whatsoever.

no, if you read my commentz carefully i many tymes say yes oil is being depleted et al.

i am saying we are countering this with changing habits and improved technology.

and the president of IBM and scientists predicting ice ages in the 70's and other learned people saying we're on the eve of destruction are the ones that were/are listened to.

they were flat out wrong.

you very much sound like you listen to these people.

peace peaceniks

Yeah, I do know more about this than you, apparently, but that's not difficult. Because you don't know even the basic, established scientific facts about this topic, and then you flaunt your ignorance like a badge of honor. (Just plant a couple trees!) Is it hard for you to admit that someone knows more than you on a given topic?

But don't take my word for it that I'm right and you're wrong. Simply google up the latest Climate Change models on the internet. They speak for themselves.

Are they overly pessimistic? Perhaps. But if the scientists are even half right in their predictions for the next 50 to 100 years, there are "interesting" times ahead of us, for sure.

Welles, I never knew you were so technologically progressive. What's going on? I remember how you chortled about being in Brazil while we were stuck here, and you told us to get out of the USA before TSHTF.

You bringing this side of you out has my approval, not that it's important to you. Still, I like to read about something else other than doom and gloom.

I think we'll all go through some hard times and come out the other side fine and dandy - at the worst.

Turk, we ARE going to go through interesting times, but it won't all be bad.

I admit, people tend to get the time scale wrong. They seem to always want to push things forward into their own life span, possibly in order to provoke a sense of urgency. I like to think of +100 or +200 years. What will the planet be like then? What will be the scale of human activity? How much of the nonrenewable resource base will remain? What will be the scale of human civilization? How many people will live on the planet?

Though that may seem like a long time, it is a mere blink of the eye on the geological time scale.

"i am saying we are countering this with changing habits and improved technology."

That is a supremely doubtful conclusion. Even if we are countering "this" (where "this" seems to be a stand in for everything wrong under the sun), there is nothing to me that indicates that the scale of the countermeasures are anywhere close to being sufficient to counteract the environmental effects we've sent into motion.

Here in America, "green" is basically a marketing buzzword. Does it actually make people change their basic behaviors? Nope, not really. Do you think a bit of recycling and planting trees is going to counteract a human-caused global average temperature rise of 2-3 degrees? Really?

But what makes you think otherwise? What makes you so optimistic? What do you see as far as real honest-to-God change in the way humans operate that will avert major catastrophes somewhere down the line? I'm curious, really. This is not the world in which I live.

large-scale tree planting has very positive effects on atmospheric levels of co2.

who said we should only plant a 'few' trees? i'm talking about changes in societal habits. large scale.

and re googling the latest climate change models...whose models? the ones which show no/no appreciable warming?

of course you don't recognize any of them, since you're certain of your knowledge.

we're still waiting for your scientific facts btw, we're about 4-5 posts in and you keep touting your superiority.

ante up with a point backed up with something besides calumny and putting down trees.

the road goes forward.

peace peaceniks

You guys are such ostriches. Much of the world is already well into the shadow of Peak Oil. Food prices have been rising drastically over the last few years. Fuel prices are going up, with no real end in sight. Revolutions are occurring all across the planet, and do you think these are purely political? If the United States didn't subsidize Egypt, half the country would starve to death. Large parts of Sub-Sarahan Africa are in continual famine and drought, which is only set to get worse as much formly arrable land desertifies in the coming years.

OPEN YOUR EYES.

Overpopulation, Peak Oil, Climate Change, and all the systemic, human-created problems bearing down upon us are already in effect, and here you say, "Oh, yeah, everything is going to be fine." If you step outside the air-conditioned limo of whatever technological utopia that cocoons you, then you would clearly see that things are not fine and haven't been for quite some time.

In time you might come to appreciate Vlad. I mean who else is willing to step back in time and declare that women in lifeboats didn't turn back and save the men freezing to death as a result of their chivalry.

And yet after reading Katha Pollit's brilliant essay " Women and Children First" maybe Vlad is on to something:

" So call Titanic a a woman's fantasy brought to you by a devoted selfless, charming, funny, incredibly handsome lover" and "He had to die" said one friend of mine, "because otherwise he would have disappointed her down the road." LOL!

Don't be obtuse, welles. You could stand to research this topic on your own.

Simply google "climate change models" and read up.

Which of them predict no change in average global temperature? I can't find ONE. Did you just make that up? The onus is on you to back up that rather absurd statement with a link or two.

Ah, okay, there is usually a "steady state" line on most of these models, but that is not to be taken as a prediction. It is comparative. I would be hard-pressed to identify even one serious climate scientist who believes that this will actually occur.

Urbandictionary is not a source you respect, Q.
================

I cite it because I know YOU respect it.

I use street slang when I know it is appropriate. Namely, Athens is a shithole.

these 'problems' are much more easily solved than you realize

--

If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?

I'm sorry. That's facetious. I just had to throw it in there. ;)

Why should you be the only one who gets to flout the Law of Contadiction; to be broad and contain multitudes?

So some things have changed in Germany and the United States over the last couple decades. Fine. I conceed the point. Actually, Germany has been green for some time. They probably invented it.

What about the rest of the world? What about people who don't have the luxury of being "green" in how they live their lives? What about China and its coal plants? Can you plant enough trees to offset the deforestation of the Amazon? What about those living at a subsistence level who cut down your freshly planted tree in order to cook their dinner? Hows does one go about planting trees when one lives in the desert? etc.

You seem to have a lot of simple answers, based on hope and optimism. I have questions, but I don't like the answers. Am I too pessimistic? Perhaps, but I think you go too far the other way. Simply because there are problems doesn't mean that there are easy solutions that can be implemented or at least implemented to the degree that will solve the problem.

And, like I said before, 90% of humanity dying off would be one of Nature's solutions. We just tend not to like that one very much.

hahaha, i counter all your poopsy dire forecasts and you simple say 'ok fine, maybe people are recycling 80% of waste' and 'ok maybe a billion-strong population center is shrinking', and 'ok so maybe some things have changed' and then wish for 90% of the population to die off.

and then berate me for being positive, while you'd really be pleased if everyone would just perish! so some bloody ball of rock spinning in empty space could be 'clean'. no truer altruist ever trolled this blog.

re serious scientists refuting beloved global warming, apparently the earth is facing a huge freezing threat and stopped warming in 1997:

http://times247.com/articles/global-warming-trend-ended-in-1997-new-data-shows

admit i haven't vetted this one to the hilt yet, but cites some of the same institutes that've been touting our soon-to-be-roasting future.

peace peaceniks

"This planet will support 50 trillion people."

This is a moronic assertion without the slightest support of any scientific field. Thanks for playing.

"By then we'll be populating other planets and pulling resources from them."

Ahahahaha. You've been watching too much Star Trek, again, and filling that inquiring mind of yours with mental garbage.

"Have faith."

And this from someone who goes by the handle Inquiring Mind? LMAO!

you have openly disparaged urbandictionary in the past. Now you cite it.
===========

"Speak what you think now in hard words and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict everything you said today" - RWE

Vlad, are you jealous? Nothing is stopping others from joining me ... but so far, crickets.

I notice that you say absolutely nothing about the depletion of fossil fuel resources, which is quite telling. Most of the nice things we enjoy about modern life stem from them, in one way or another. Is petroleum somehow replenishable or reusable? If so, I'd like to know.

I never stated that nothing at all would be done. I'm just saying it won't be enough.

And, BTW, thanks for the discussion. This reminds me of old school CFN. :)

Wrong, faith is belief without evidence. Look it up.

Turk,
That would be the oldspider up to his deranged prescriptions again! Notice the "trillions"; soon to reference skyscrapers and other such shit-brained notions, spouted from his SHITHOLE (tm Q) of a cell within ol' Greystone Asylum. He never should have been watching when they ran the Star Trek series; it tied in far to well with his psychotic delusions. And what's with all the Chinese shit?? Can't get enough of seeing himself "in print"? Fu-ucked up! (Maybe he thinks he can really speak Chinese; as Greystone's Premier, that would be a requirement.)

Turkle, you are correct that many resources are finite. Others are renewable. What we will definitely need to do is reduce our level of consumption. Conservation will buy us time to develop safe, renewable, and sustainable energy, so we can get out of dangerous sources like nukes (see Fukushima).

For example, since 20% of SoCal's energy supposedly comes from nukes that produce dangerous nuclear wastes, the time is right for a conservation campaign to reduce electric usage by 20%. There are relatively painless ways to conserve: LA is possibly the most over-illumined city in the USA.

Why the Troops must come Home and be placed on our Southern Border. And then we must begin to deport the Enemy within.

Also shows Asoka's claims that La Raza is not a Racist Organization are nonsense.

http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=10983

It is exactly this kind of techno-optimist fawning that leads me to believe our civilization is not long for this earth. We have lost all sense of tragedy and limits. We think everything is possible and that all problems are reversible, e.g. have solutions. We think that because we can sustain some activity for a few decades or even a hundred years that we will be able to do it indefinitely. There is a real human tragedy in the making here, the ultimate one, in fact. Civilizations rise and fall, and it will be the same with ours. The fall is going to be harder than in the past because of how high we've gotten (legend of Icarus) and how interconnected the world has become. This isn't some doomer fantasy. It is how history has always progressed.

Will humanity die out completely? That's unlikely. We are a hardly little ape and likely to surive in some form or another for thousands if not millions of years, even if we have to live underground or under the ocean.

But will the current way of doing things and the current population levels be sustained far into the future? I very seriously doubt it, based upon what I know of ecology and other scientific fields.

But, then again, you could be right. Maybe we'll solve all these problems and wrap it all up with a pretty bow. Predicting the future is usually a fool's game. Maybe we'll be riding around in solar-powered, electric hovercrafts and harvesting minerals from the center of the moon. But I'm not counting on it.

It is almost like you're programmed to be a thick-headed git.

Trillions and trillions...of skyscrapers!

Mr Diversity Lover:
1 in 3? Salvadoreans is here.
1 in 3? Haitians is here.
USA sends $ to Egypt, where half? the populations under 25! Gee the food gets put to good use, makin bacon, Oops, I mean Muslin, Oops I mean Muslims.

Since yr the smartest person here, didya know BHO
has a 'Diversity Visa' to bring in more Muslims?
And how many more Blacks have been brought in under his watch? how many more people have been brought in?
Didya know Ted Kennedy had a bill to let ANY Chaldean in the world move to US as a 'Refugee'?

thats an attempt to answer the question ya posed.

Wrong, Turkle. Faith and belief and very different, epistemologically speaking.

Faith and belief are two closely related concepts that are often understood to be synonymous, though they are distinct.

According to Wilfred Cantwell Smith, in his book Faith and Belief, "belief" involves either lack of certainty about something or neutrality about its correctness.

Thus "John knows Paris is the capital of France" is a statement of certainty; "John believes Paris is the capital of France" indicates uncertainty about the truth of the statement; "John believes Marseilles is the capital of France" indicates either that John is uncertain or that the speaker knows that John is wrong (Faith and Belief, 35).

Faith, on the other hand presupposes a level of certainty, not a level of uncertainty. While some uncertainty may remain, and some level of "belief" may exist, faith presupposes the correctness and truthfulness of some proposition or experience.

An integral part of faith, Smith asserts, is a personal response to that proposition or experience. Faith implies engagement, interaction, while belief involves only an intellectual assertion that something may be true and correct (Ibid., 4-5, 50).

Is it 15k, Murder. 15k suicide?

thats beyond creepy!!!

It is like a law of physics, soaky. People from the poor and overpopulated countries will go to the relatively rich and less populated ones, whether or not you formally allow it or not, to wit, the immigration of millions of Mexicans into the states from their overpopulated, impoverished country into the relatively less populated and far more prosperous US and A. That's life. It has been happening for thousands of years and will continue indefinitely. That's why the barbarians invaded Roman. They were rich and had, uh, vast tracts of land. The only thing that is ultimately going to stop this shift is when the relatively rich countries get poor and overpopulated enough that people don't want to go there anymore. Or the borders could be fully militarized and locked down, but that's rather difficult to do in a free, democratic country. If you don't like it, go join the Border Patrol or something, where you can "make a difference."

And can you blame them? If I was born in Haiti, the first thing I would do as an able bodied adult would be to GTF out of there.

Bill Gates has said:
1..Tech will solve the Environmental crisis [at least he admits biosphere is in triage].

2..Nuke Energy is the safest! [a recent statement I saw in Yahoo? news very recently].

You know what I think about religion, so I won't repeat myself (too much). Suffice to say, "You're wrong." Your stated definitions are not the commonly understood ones. Faith is used to justify belief in God. There is no evidence that supports this belief, hence people's parrot-like refrain that they believe in this fictious entity because they "have faith." Belief justifies faith, and faith justifies belief. It is a nice little tautology. And if that isn't belief without evidence, my stated definition, I'm not sure what is.

Not sure what to make of this. Do you believe him?

He's a software expert. Why should I believe what he has to say about the climate and energy, especially these kind of flippant assertions? Software is a completely different game than the meat world. There all problems (in the domain at least) really are solvable. You just need to put in the right codes, and, whalla, Facebook.

If he truly believes these things, I'm happy to pidgeonhole him as just another blind, techno-optimist.

I mean, nuclear? Really? After what happened in Japan?! Any moronic monkey can see that wind and solar are far more safe than nuclear, even if they have their own problems of scale and intermitancy. You're never going to make hundreds (if not thousands) of square miles uninhabitable to humans with a wind or solar farm. I mean...duh.

Environmental problems will be "solved" with technology, just like writing some computer code to "solve" the problems of the back office. Presto, chango! As easy as one-two-three. We'll just install a few of those atmospheric processors like in that movie Aliens, minus the, uh, flesh eating xenomorphs with acid for blood. Then we can dump whatever we want into the atmosphere and clean it up later. The future is bright, I tell you what!

Is the movie Aliens really a metaphor for the unintended consequences of technology? You terraform a planet and make the atmosphere breathable but didn't think you'd get a spaceship full of facehuggers in the deal, didja!?

You seem pretty confident. Are you some kind of time traveler from the future? Steven Hawking says that isn't possible, BTW, so my guess is you're just blowing smoke.

I'll take the weekly burial starting early as a complement. I have noticed they like to post after me but to be absolutely sure a proper statistical analysis would be needed. I don't imagine sales of clothes or handbags do very well here. I wonder why they bother?

Turkle, yes I know your stand.

A belief is a superficial mental construct not necessarily based upon experience. I do not hold a belief in my mind that there will be a sunrise tomorrow, but I do have faith (based on previous experience) that we will have a sunrise.

Seems like an important distinction to me, but we will continue to disagree about this, and that is fine.

"So ZaDeekah, why do you pull up this page?" Some of us just like to shoot the shit and bust balls, and also share a little common knowledge.! "Bite me asswipe!" Also, by the way where the fuck did you show up from?"

He wants to license the solution to you and being as he is a believer in technology and a citizen of the world he naturally believes that technology will solve all the problems that technology creates. He can't see that he is a dog chasing his own tail because as Kaiho Iwasaki earlier quoted:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

Gates does not know he no longer needs a salary and never will though he would strongly disagree. Never has he struck me as one to comprehend introspection and the bigger picture. He knows how to make money win and exploit. To know if there is any more to him I'd have to meet him personally. So far I haven't seen it.

soka, I don't like arguing about definitions of words and concepts when they aren't the commonly understood ones but some arbitrary redefinition based upon personal feelings or some such.

In no way is it an expression of 'faith' to believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, because this assumption is based upon previous experience, which constitutes solid evidence.

If you said that you have 'faith' in Jesus's return to Earth, well, now we're talking.

Not a time traveler. I agree that isn't feasible. I study the human mind and spirit and have performed many experiments in this area (not going to discuss this as my experiences and results wouldn't be accepted) and I've studied a lot of history.

I'm not blowing smoke any more than you are. Just expressing my opinions, just as you are. There is no guarantee that I'm right any more than you are right.

Yet, I think I am right. Otherwise I'd be espousing the opinions that you do.

My difference from you is that I agree with and recognize the situations that you are concerned with, yet I envision solutions for them.

If you actually experienced something like this first hand it would indeed be a game changer, a paradigm shift for you in the realm of spiritual and mental power.

Then you'd have more respect for yourself and faith in you life. You'd understand the ultimate power of thought and see that it is indeed senior to the mechanics of the physical universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufVjdvRw4LM&feature=related

Hey Turk, I don't know about mataphors but Ripley is hot in her gauchies!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swM6pLxxgWE

I'm too old to be watchin' this shit

It's almost like this Inquiring Mind guy is playing the over-the-top caricature of the opposing point of view game...

But, sadly, I think he is serious.

It's just like you say...we have lost our sense of tragedy and our awareness of limits. Im 27 years old and I see it plainly in my parents' generation. Hubris, plain and simple.

I like to think back to one of my favorite movies: Back to the Future II. Came out around 1989, I think, and featured scenes set in the then-distant future of 2015.

What did the year 2015 look like in this film? We had fusion-powered flying cars, hoverboards (my favorite), capsulized expanding food, and we seemed to have conquered that pesky problem of dust and pollution in general. Incidentally, the communications gadgetry was forecasted quite realistically, but this is about all the filmakers got right.

My point? At the time - just 23 years ago!- everyone thought this conception of 2015 would be proven at least somewhat realistic. Well, hows that looking now?

Just look at the 1930s world's fairs, sci-fi from the 50's, etc.

Many of us are stuck in fantasies of techno-utopianism. We need to take stock of just what technology is and what it isnt.

All arguments, or opinions as you call them, are not equivalent. Some are better than others. I can argue that the moon is made of green cheese, but it is a very poor (and wrong) argument. Someone who said it is made of moon rocks has a much better (and correct) argument. Some opinions are right, and some are wrong. I'm so sorry if that hurts your feelings, but that's life.

Your visions of a George Jetson nuclear future where man is perfected do not even constitute arguments. They are merely delusional ravings based upon wishful thinking and blind optimism. Ditto for your fantasies about limitless nuclear energy and billions of skyscrapers and trillions of humans to go up and down the (presumably nuclear powered) elevators.

What I've been saying in my posts is (primarily) grounded in science, e.g. that there is a predicted rise in global average temperature from GW, extrapolating from current climate conditions and carbon emissions, using scientific modeling. From these models, I can predict that there are likely to be catastrophic changes in climate that will have a huge effect upon humanity.

In this case, my so-called opinions are based upon scientific findings, whereas yours seem to be based on nothing more than a personal desire to see Star Trek come true.

If you can't see the difference between one and the other, it isn't even worth arguing with you.

You said:

We're going to continue with the system we have until we can't.

And then there will be nothing to replace it with and everybody dies. People here want humanity to survive but we have to educate and enlighten people so bullies like you don't decide death for all. We have to do everything we can to soften the coming blow because that is the morally correct human thing to do.

Our claims are not obvious and beyond question. Serious dogs think and question claims all the time. I would like the evidence not to be out there but unfortunately it is. That you do not know of any 'evidence' shows you question nothing.

That was just a stupid movie from idiotic Hollywood. Totally insignificant. Ridiculous concepts. Yet you draw conclusions from it?

As if Science is the end all and be all. The spirit and the mind are senior I'm afraid. They are already discovering that in Quantum Physics.

The ideas that passed for science back in the 1400's and were accepted and presented by the "great minds" of the day now turn out to be fairy tales and BS. Don't you think that can still happen?

I'm not as advanced as you.

You said: The ultimate power of thought and see that it is indeed senior to the mechanics of the physical universe.

I'm not advanced enough to go without food shelter and clothing and use thoughts to nourish and sustain me as you can. I find I need real food or I won't be thinking about anything.

I also wish my knowledge of science technology and man was as developed as yours because my thoughts get blocked by the physical laws of the universe when I think of fanciful cornucopian technical delights that could turn the vicious circle one more time.

If that were the case, I would have already reached across time and space using my mental fusion with the internet to slap you in the face, in order to knock some sense into you.

Or maybe I'm just not thinking hard enough...

Then can you use the amazing powers of your advanced, superior mind to conjure me up a ham sandwich right now? I'm getting rather hungry.

I use the film to illustrate the absurdity of the attitudes and beliefs underlying your techno-utopian fantasies. The attitudes and beliefs that made it seem like a realistic forecast of the future.

Is that so hard to understand?

"The spirit and the mind are senior I'm afraid. They are already discovering that in Quantum Physics."

Christ...

Thorium is happening only in Elon Musk's mind, An Inquiring Mind. In terms of nuclear in the real world, passively cooled LWR is where the technology is headed.

http://www.nuscalepower.com/ot-How-NuScale-Technology-Works.php

But, by-and-large, fossil fuels is what the world's leaders have put their chips on to power the world economy out to 2100. 500 ppm CO2 is baked-in-the-cake.

Weird things start happening up around 500 ppm CO2.

Japanese girls go for the Black Look - big use of tanning salons. Just heard today that their advent in the 70's coincided with huge increase in melanoma. In Japan too I wonder? Whites are more vulnerable of course, but they said that when dark skinned people get it, they don't respond to treatment as well.

http://amren.com/news/2012/04/black-lifestyle-in-japan/

Turkle:

Here is key data regarding the whole concept of "global warming"... which proves that it is a fraud and based on the hidden agenda of certain individuals.

If you have fixed ideas and a strong intention "to be right" and an agenda to support, then don't bother listening as you have a barrier to learning. If you have an open mind by all means listen to the interview.

http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/in-depth/2009/10/24/ian-plimer/heaven-and-earth

I never said that. You misunderstand me. Of course there are the laws of the physical universe. Man uses them to conquer the physical universe.

There are other universes.

Do you want mustard on that ham sandwich?

Kaiho,

Look at my full sentence...

they'll use thorium (safer and cheaper) and they'll progress and evolve and evolve.

If thorium doesn't work they'll find something that does. Man will go through the same process as he did with steam, electricty, air flight, space travel, etc. etc.

He'll "fail" his way to success.

It took Edison 3,000 attempts to get the light bulb to work.

In no way is it an expression of 'faith' to believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, because this assumption is based upon previous experience, which constitutes solid evidence.

==============

I cannot know with 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow.

There is no belief system that can provide me 100% certainty. Believing is shallow and ineffectual anyway.

I am part of a vast, vast cosmos. I am in control of only a tiny set of variables. I do not in fact know what is going to happen next.

However, based upon previous experience, I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow ...

I could be wrong.

But do we really have enough to get the PPM even that high? I know if all the coal were burned along with all oil and gas we might get that high but a much coal is actually going to turn out to be unrecoverable, too hard to get.

I find it interesting how discussions of resource depletion pretty much get turned around to banter over climate change. The solution to both problems have much in common but the issues and implications are not exactly the same.

It seems climate change is much easier to talk about, less scary.

Of course overpopulation hardly ever gets mentioned at all.

What do you think?

But the point is that there should be much more R&D funding for thorium reactors. You are correct where nuclear technology is currently heading, but that doesn't make it a smart move. Unfortunately, TPTB have a stake in the current path and don't want to head off in different directions.

Fusion technology hasn't yet been perfected, but it doesn't mean that it can't, even if it takes another 50-75 years (I doubt it will take that long, as computers become more powerful, much experimentation will be done via modeling to overcome the plasma bottle problem). So why can't thorium reactors be developed in less time? The physics is known, it's just the engineering that needs developing - I think. It seems less intractable than fusion issues.

Well, Asoka, FYI,I just removed the sun. Forecast for tomorrow: Very dark and cold.

No matter which direction nuclear goes, there's still those Three Degrees of Warming to consider:

http://www.global-greenhouse-warming.com/3-degrees.html

Lovelock has the most likely global warming scenario out to 2100 nailed down pretty well, I think.

Your expert is a paid shill. Are you?

From the article:

"Both of us pressed him to answer the question. So Plimer said that neither of us had read his book. We both replied that we had and pressed him again."

Oh, yes we do have enough carbon to get the ppm that high.

In addition to world leaders' firm commitment to fully process all the Canadian tar sands oil and everything that remains in the Middle East, all that carbon in the warming Siberian and Alaskan permafrost is in the process of being unlocked as we speak.

And, of course, don't forget all those methane hydrates in the ocean, just waiting to melt and outgas into the atmosphere.

By 2100, we'll be back in the Eocene.

LOL!

But there are people who believe three days of darkness will happen this year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBJEm1BFPaw

Belief can be completely detached from empirical evidence, just a mental construct. Faith cannot be detached from experience.

Yes, that pesky permafrost. Thanks

'Do you believe him'?
Are you crazy? I mention him because the Media
treats Celebs as experts! what do actresses know about Nutrition? politics? etc.
If folks think hes Infallible [the new Pope] Good Luck!
Nukes safe energy!! hahahaha

Turk is very experienced in twisting others words.
Hes a genius in some ways.

Global warming, whats the other pole? The next Ice Age? When will that happen?

I am listening to yr link now!!!!

Cute, yeah Gates is a jerk.
He does what he can to bring more 'workers' in...
not give the jobs to Us citizens.
And his 'charity' is to Africa.

"Our educational system has failed to pass on some basic truths, such as the Laws of Thermodynamics and the concept of Entropy."

I could not agree more and am delighted someone finally said entropy. Knowledge of entropy is essential to really understand the solutions. The book I'm reading "Too Smart For Our Own Good" begins talking about it in chapter one - Scientific Ground Rules.

Oops! I missed this post. Just read the article. Interesting. I'll have to watch the video interview.

I'm not a shill.

There have been global warmings before. There weren't cars, dry cleaners or factories around then. Explain that.

The pollutants that man is sending into the atmosphere are not a positive thing, and they will be reduced as we go forward, and progress is already being made in this area.

The seas are not going to cover the continents and the whole planet isn't going into a century cycle of drought and we are not going to perish. I know that is unfortunate for the doomers and gloomers.

" You will become what you think about. You are what you think you are."

This is not exactly new territory Inquiring Mind. In fact it's that same old regurgitated optimism from the various New Age seminar scrap bins that have been going on for the last few decades, give or take. A sales pitch designed to delude the individual that they can transform themselves into autonomous magicians unaffected by greater societal envelopment. "

And you too will be able to walk barefoot...blah,blah,blah.

It's also a social hierarchy propaganda tool designed to divert mass consciousness from the stratifying structures of society and lay all blame on the lone individual for success or failure. Because, as you assert, "you are what you think you are". And if things go sour in life, well look no further than oneself.

In my opinion,what you're pumping is a rather perverse and deluded form of solipsism.

Solipsism:
1.Philosophy . the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist.
2.
extreme preoccupation with and indulgence of one's feelings, desires, etc.; egoistic self-absorption.

Dear 3rd,
I suppose you count notes at the symphony, too?

Neither Triumph nor Doom, Beantownbill.

Barring deux ex machina (the timely arrival of aliens truly interested in our well-being), the most likely scenario for humans is a Long Descent a la John Michael Greer.

"Don't shoot! I'm not a member of the Eastern Coalition!"--Capt. Jean Luc Picard (Star Trek VIII--First Contact)

Ah, did I hurt your feewings, soaky?

I'm glad you've finally acknowledged my genius and sorry if I've "twisted your words". Perhaps if you provide an example of such I can untwist them for you.

I like the way you roll, brother.

Man I can't get off this site...

Black Stud:
I'm not a new age jerk. And none of what you say describes me.

Just put it all in perspective and don't try to twist my words or make me look like an idiot, which seems to be the game on this site.

All I'm saying is mind power, positive thinking, persistence and faith in myself and abilities have proven to be much more workable than with having the opposite mindset. I find that the more responsibility I take the better things go for me.

I'm not saying that I walk through walls, have X-ray vision or have the power to run my internal combustion engine on happy thoughts. Geeesh!

"There have been global warmings before. There weren't cars, dry cleaners or factories around then. Explain that."

Is your brain not wired correctly or what? I'm beginning to lose count of all the logical fallacies you've committed on here, just in one day.

Just because A causes B in one instance doesn't mean that A is the one and only possible cause when B occurs at some other time and place.

To wit, say that Inquiring Mind goes sailing off of a building because someone pushed him (I won't name names), and his mental powers aren't sufficient to levitate himself so he splatters all over the sidewalk.

This doesn't indicate that someone pushing you is the only way to go flying off a building. You could have jumped or perhaps been buffeted by a strong wind. Or maybe you slipped and fell.

Get it?

No one is denying that GW has occurred in the past. The question is what causes it now? And mainstream science argues that mans' activities are doing it. The science is basic and easily understand, at least by reasonable people. It is the greenhouse model (assume you've heard of it).

If you want to argue that sun spot cycles, volcanic activity, climate cycles, or the end of the Mayan calendar are causing the current round of GW, the onus is on YOU to prove it. Why would you assume that climatologists do not take this all into account?

Oh, and I (briefly) looked at the Wikipedia page for the author of the book you cited. According to it, he has changed his mind since writing the book and acknowledged that man-made GW is occurring. Smart guy. He isn't a climatologist, BTW, but a geologist.

Isn't it funny how we're gone from all truth being relative or just "opinions" to me supposedly being a mentally defective imbecile because I don't agree with your non-mainstream pet theory about how the world works. Funny that.

"make me look like an idiot"

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, ...

As has been stated before, who knows who's right? It's a matter of opinion, really, because the future doesn't exist yet.

I can't believe that you pushed me off a building.

That was merely an example. Of course, I'd never do such a thing. Perhaps it popped into my head because you're always talking about covering the earth in skyscrapers.

same old regurgitated optimism from the various New Age seminar scrap bins that have been going on for the last few decades

Decades? Centuries. This country was founded on such optimism. And before the New Age stuff of the 70s, there was plenty of popular culture stuff like Napoleon Hill's THINK AND GROW RICH which was published in 1937. Clap trap all of it, including the new versions like "The Secret" and "Law of Attraction"

I'll take Old Age over New Age any day.

Advaita Vedanta, for example, based on Rig Veda, 7000 years old (5000 BC or earlier), which is older than Judaism with its miraculous parting of the Red Sea, burning bushes, etc. What crap.

I can't go for that Judaic-inspired New Age miracle religion called Christianity either, water into wine, loaves and fishes, virgin births, etc. What crap!

RE: John Michael Greer

I dunno about this silly "archdruid" business but this is one humdinger of a blog post...

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2012/01/waking-up-walking-away.html

Quite apropos to our discussion above on technology and civilization.

TURKEY:

Don't worry. I'm really leaving now.

You are immersed in "logic" and "the sciences" and "the laws of the physical universe" and these are your boundaries. Supposedly fixed and never changing.

I don't ignore or discount these factors. I just know there are higher forces at work. Things change. Man evolves.

There isn't much truth in our civilization. It tends to dive out of sight in this universe. Today everything is upside down and backwards. Many ill-intentioned individuals and groups have made this so in economics, medicine, mental health, education, etc.

What is white is now black and what is fiction is now fact.

We'll see how things turn out.

Damn another post to respond to. Boy, I'm popular. Everybody likes me.

What is this skyscraper stuff you keep talking about? I never said anything about skyscrapers, all I said was that man will manage to have way more than 6 trillion people on this planet. I think you've got me confused with someone else.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that mental outlook has no effect on how you interact with the world, just that thinking by itself is not able to nullify or bypass the basic laws of the universe, which is pretty much an obvious, a priori truth.

Otherwise, we'd all be walking through walls and teleporting. I myself would go with X-ray vision or the ability to stop time. That would be entertaining.

Yeah, there was this one guy awhile back. Maybe you're not him. My mistake, if so.

"all I said was that man will manage to have way more than 6 trillion people on this planet"

Wow. Have you run the numbers on that, just in terms of the indoor plumbing? It is not possible.

Exactly, that is all I'm saying TURKEY. Except that I put a bit more emphasis on the power of thought.

How many times in history has a person said "that is not possible" and then whadda ya know, it turned out to be possible.

This is a big planet. There are a lot of creative geniuses, thinkers, innovators and engineers, scientists, inventors, artists and organizers here. And there will be many more.

I can't predict the future. Man will solve the "problem" of plumbing. Either ahead of time or he will be forced to as a result of crisis.

Well, I'm not as old as you Asoka.

You're so old that Norman Vincent Peale probably signed your book ;)

Naked eye astronomy and rat eaters make for a retired man who breathes easily~~~old FD proverb

May I not "do something" and bitch at the same time?
Sorry if that doesn't fit inside your bubble of benevolence, but there I be... ;o)

Remember that Tripp is REALLY busy in that regard, and his criticisms of bidnez-as-usual are damning (at the mildest).

Hey RT!
These little UK babies were only larvae when Canned Heat ripped this one up. It's a very cool stripped-down version, rockabilly style.
(Keep Q away from this; the bent-over snare-banging is reeeeevealing for those fascinated with woman lumps! ;o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxW3Ed7GrhQ&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=AL94UKMTqg-9DqkKESiFeq0G9jIBrOnVYu

"Many of us are stuck in fantasies of techno-utopianism. We need to take stock of just what technology is and what it isnt." -WTF

Yep, the limits of energy availability is what runs the engine of the cosmos, and all our dreams of progress or utopia bang up against it in the final analysis.

Now, sure, our present methods of tapping that energy are pretty crude, so room for improvement is a given...

Azzie,
Excellent post.
I heartily agree that time is short and choices get slimmer by the season.

"Man is a problem-solver and a tool-maker. It's hard-wired into the species since it developed a large pre-frontal cortex and opposable thumbs. We may not act wisely or timely, but we've solved most of our problems in the past. Go with the trend - there's no reason to believe we won't solve our current problems." -BTB

There is one huge overlay that is my main gripe with the present "trend". Can you guess what it might be? (I knew you could. ;o)

We're either going to play, "Suicide for Dollars", or "Housekeeping for Survival". I think we understand that the flim-flams, scams, schemes, Ponzi-s, rackets, deceptions and cons are reflections of the former, and they are the stock-in-trade of those who hold the power and run the world. THAT, my friends, is the current TREND, and they also control energy production and how it's used. Until this "trend" is eradicated, those who cry DOOM are the more correct and informed about the true nature of mankind's direction.

Nice post, Ozone.

We haven't even begun to fight.

Our survival is at stake, so you can be sure we will be tapping into what runs the engine of the cosmos in ways currently unimaginable. Ways that overcome entropy. (say what? that is unimaginable!)

Just as it was unimaginable that velocity could exceed the speed of light ... until it was done.
(L J Wang et al. 2000 Nature 406 277)

WSP,
Good point about the loss of talent and knowledge in the wrenchin' department. I happen to think of it as involving much more intuition than most would acknowledge. I have no talents in that area; I tend to make things worse with my meddling! (It's good I have a sympathetic and kindly neighbor; he makes me do the work, but tells me what and what NOT to do.)

As to this:
"Drive by Truckers out of Georgia perform songs that deal with the topics we cover here. Ozone, on XCountry (Satellite Radio) heard Neil Young cover that song you do so well, with the refrain "everybody knows, everybody knows ...'' Did you write that?"
--WSP7

Lawdy, no! But don't I wish... ;o)
Leonard Cohen. "Everybody Knows". Great tune; my version tends a little in the direction of Concrete Blonde and a bit more punch; Cohen's original is quite smoooooth with some really sweet flamenco-esque guitar fills for extry atmosphere!
Will look into Drive-by Truckers stuff; thanks for the tip.

John Michael Greer is probably the most profound writer on the Post-Peak Oil scene, and the particular posting you link to is positively sublime. He makes a powerful case for why most people should just begin to walk away from the industrial, consumer society and head in the direction of "reducing your needs to zero". That's easier said than done, of course, but he has a ton of practical advice for how to do just that.

And he's absolutely right when he says that one of the first thing a great many people need to do is get rid of the car, and use other forms of transportation to get around (and rent a Zip Car when you absolutely need to use a car). A lot of younger Americans are doing just that.

As has been stated before, who knows who's right? It's a matter of opinion, really, because the future doesn't exist yet.

Yes, but some opinions about the future are MUCH better informed than others. John Michael Greer's, for example. His simple recognition of the fact that the decline of fossil fuel resources is gradual, not sudden, is an important piece of evidence for his claim that the descent from industrial civilization will be considerably more gradual than many Peak Oilers (Post-Peak Oilers now) are willing to admit.

It's much more likely to be a long, slow downward grind than one sudden fall out of an airplane from 40,000 feet (with no parachute).

Do make it a point to read his blog, the Archdruid Report, whenever you can.

'Napoleon Hill's book'...Did you know he lived in Poverty? [hahahaha, what a huckster Hill was].
Maybe if he'd 'Worked and saved to riches'...
No, too logical.

But the point is that there should be much more R&D funding for thorium reactors. You are correct where nuclear technology is currently heading, but that doesn't make it a smart move. Unfortunately, TPTB have a stake in the current path and don't want to head off in different directions.

Passively cooled LWR, a la NuScale, is a very smart move, Beantownbill, for no other reason than that the entire world has an enormous amount of experience with LWR that can be taken advantage of. The chief drawback of LWR to date has been their need to be actively cooled. Passive cooling solves that problem. That's why there's so much interest in moving forward with this approach.

Passively cooled LWR really is the safest way to do nuclear.

Id like to know who they are?
Spider ? Old whats is name? just buggin us?

I believe he has appeared on Noury's program, widespreadpanic7. In any event, his take on UFOs is quite compelling; not an X-Files perspective at all.

The robes and headgear are part of the religious garb he wears in his religious role. His insight on magic as a psychological, rather than a physical, force is a powerful one, as is his claim that the advanced industrialized nations can be thought of as examples of modern, thaumaturgical states.

I take issue with your slow downward grind assertion.

We participate in the economy to fill needs and there is a difference between vital needs and needs which are not essential for survival. Modern man however often has great difficulty determining what needs are vital and which are not.

Those on top of the social pyramid continue reaping the surplus of those lower on the social pyramid as production of goods and services declines. The needs of the poor are disproportionately affected because it cuts into their ability to meet vital needs. Food, shelter, clothing, home heat, medical care, stuff like that. Fulfilling vital needs takes the lions share of the poor's budget.

The affluent may have to buy smaller boats but these are not vital needs. They can bitch and moan and do but as their vital needs are not affected they deserve zero sympathy.

In times of growth the poor get by somewhat OK. In times when the economy is flat life for the poor gets rather miserable. If the economy is in actual decline life of for the poor becomes horrible.

It comes down to being able to meet vital needs. The affluent continue to take what is theirs (the surplus of the poor) leaving the poor nothing to meet vital needs with when times get tight. This leads to a rapid collapse of society through revolutionary processes as the bottom of the social pyramid becomes unable to meet vital needs.

A 'let them eat cake' dynamic evolves and then the pyramid goes down hard.

Often in the past bush meat filled the gap. I have a squirrel named Silvester living in my backyard redwood tree and a raccoon named Rocky prowls my yard at night. Together they would give only one or two days sustenance and raccoons tend to have parasites and should be avoided. Besides they are unofficial pets and I want to leave them alone.

K-DOG for president.

Somebody bugging us for sure but who? Whoever it is they need a life.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, ...
===========

The expression is "quacks like a duck, ..."

Now we get a bit more into the details.

The decline of a civilization is rarely anything like so sudden for those who live through it. It's a much slower and more complex transformation than the sudden catastrophes imagined by many soical critics today. -- John Michael Greer

Think of world-wide industrial civilization's "Long Descent" as analogous to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire never actually "collapsed", in the sense of a sudden TEOTWAWKI. Its decline followed a pattern of a sharp crisis (of some kind) followed by a period of relative stability (at the new, lower standard of living), followed by another crisis, period of relative stability, etc..

The most-likely scenario is that industrial civilization is going to follow a similar path.

Just as it was unimaginable that velocity could exceed the speed of light ... until it was done.
(L J Wang et al. 2000 Nature 406 277)
===========

The jury is very much still out on this and I'm betting it'll all end the same way as the "cold fusion" wet dream did a couple of decades ago. See below.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/head-faster-light-neutrinos-team-resigns-16038220

The process of decline will indeed go faster than it did for the Romans. In their case, it took about 1200 years for the entire thing (West and East) to end. For industrial civilization, 200 years is a generous allowance, as it passes through various phases (abundance industrialism, scarcity industrialism, salvage industrialism...).

The schtick is tired and worn-out as a 2 dollar whore on a Sunday morning with the Fleet in town.
=============

^That's a funny line.

Cold fusion has not yet "ended."

Jean-Paul Biberian surveyed 15 years of cold fusion research and concluded that nuclear reactions that are not predicted by current theories were occurring in cold fusion reactors.

Positive results with excess heat and neutron emission are enough to prove that the cold fusion phenomena is real. Those few experiments with negative results don't count because they could be caused by flaws in the setup, and you can't prove an idea false by simply having a negative replication.

Recent accelerator experiments on fusion of various elements have clearly demonstrated that the effective cross-sections of these reactions depend on what material the target particle is placed in. In these experiments, there was a significant increase in the probability of interaction when target nuclei are imbedded in a conducting crystal or are a part of it. These experiments open a new perspective on cold nuclear fusion.

SOURCE: Tsyganov, EE 2012, 'Cold nuclear fusion', Physics Of Atomic Nuclei, vol. 75, Issue 2.

There are trends within trends, but I didn't want to get complicated. I'm talking about an historical mega-trend here.

The one flaw I see in TPTB conspiring to get ever richer and powerful and not caring what happens to the rest of the world, is that it makes no sense to want to rule a destroyed world. Ruling from underground refuges or walking around with gas masks and SPF-zillion lathered-on sunscreen is not how I would want to live my privileged life. I have to conclude that TPTB know that solutions will be implemented. As you may already know, I'm not big on conspiracy theories.

I don't begrudge you the fact that passively cooled LWR seems to be a big improvement. And maybe it will take too long to get thorium reactors on-line. But to me, fission reactors of any sort are at best a stopgap until solar power satellites with Earth-based rectenna farms, and nuclear fusion reactors are made practical. Yes, it will take a lot to get there, but ultimately, as long as we do have stopgap alternatives, we'll succeed.

Yeah, I know this seems childishly optimistic pie-in-the-sky science fiction. I am a rational adult, not a fool. But I am an optimist, as well. What good is life if one cannot dream big dreams and act on a large stage? I like to keep my feet firmly planted on the ground, while my head is in the clouds.

Are the Israelis an 'invented' people [UN creation]?

anti soak, that is above my pay grade.

This whole FTL neutrino episode is like an instruction manual on how science works. We have a brilliant team of physicists employed at the world's foremost particle physics sites carefully designing and building equipment for a complex experiment. Anomalous results are obtained that contradict current theory. The design and equipment are triple-checked and nothing wrong can be found. The results of the experiment are stunning, and as extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, the elite team asks for help from other experts in the field in determining whether or not mistakes have been made.

The original scientists made no absolute claims; they just stated they got an unexpected result, triple-checked it and the results stood. They requested verification from other scientists. The team didn't call the Enquirer to say they had just overthrown Einstein's theories of relativity.

Even Einstein allowed for speeds of at least 10,000 times the speed of light in quantum non-local connection (what Einstein called spooky action at a distance).

There is so much that we have yet to discover, to confirm, to utilize, that it boggles the mind. We are but infants when it comes to science, and a glorious childhood awaits.

There is so much that we have yet to discover, to confirm, to utilize, that it boggles the mind. We are but infants when it comes to science, and a glorious childhood awaits.

asoka, you should read John Horgan's book about this topic sometime. It's very thought-provoking.

http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Science-Knowledge-Scientific/dp/0553061747

I'll give you a chance to read the book first, asoka, so you can draw your own conclusions. As you'll see, contemplating the possibility of the End of Science (by which Horgan means the End of Scientific Revolutions) is quite thought-provoking.

Note that as the circle of knowledge enlarges, the perimeter where light touches darkness also grows.
=============

Please state your source for this circle of jerk ;-) metaphor. It's some old dark Indian sitting in the lotus position wearing what appears to be a diaper... right?

Here's a good description, from the horse's mouth, of what the Long Descent means in practical terms over the next few years.

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2012-01-11T20:19:00-08:00&max-results=7&start=6&by-date=false

"Over population? Another fraud. This planet will support 50 trillion people."
-an inquiring mind- (AIM)

AIM, you will have to forgive some of us when we say that you sound just like the recently departed 8M/Olde soixante-neuf/Tegmark.

If you're not him, then disregard some of this, but TRILLIONS, dude. Large numbers trip a lot of people up. One trillion is one THOUSAND billion.

And the planet is gasping under the weight of 7 billion human souls.

One trillion people would be 993,000,000,000 more people than we have now.
50,000,000,000,000 people - ok, then.

That might tax, even, the ability of our Resident Lover of All Things Human - trying to love all of those people without limit.

the flounder's name is heather
===============

My guesses:

1. She'll lie flat without the least bit of prompting

2. She has 2 eyes on one side of her head and none on the other

I understand that you didn't want to pile on too many factors in your original assessment, but I still posit that the trend of massive fraud holds equal weight with your altruistic technological pursuit trend.

"The one flaw I see in TPTB conspiring to get ever richer and powerful and not caring what happens to the rest of the world, is that it makes no sense to want to rule a destroyed world. Ruling from underground refuges or walking around with gas masks and SPF-zillion lathered-on sunscreen is not how I would want to live my privileged life. I have to conclude that TPTB know that solutions will be implemented. As you may already know, I'm not big on conspiracy theories." -BTB

Beans,
I'm not so certain they know any such thing, and I'm a little surprised that you don't consider arrogance and hubris to be the ultimate set of blinders. Mind-set will do the trick as surely as any hardened conspiracy, IMHO.
Sorta like carelessly knocking over the punchbowl at the party, then expecting someone else to not only clean up the mess, but to refill the bowl with more sweet swillage as well. Our "leading lights" are become the world's most dangerous three and four-year-olds.

Be advised that I didn't mean to drag you away from your original posting of a positive mega-trend, it's just that I see one equally as large in a negative direction that's been happily cranking along for nearly a century! (Speaks more to my outlook than most anything else. ;o)

Very profound. He's right: I want it over now so I don't have to keep worrying about money. I want the fun to start. I'm hoping the Maya were right. 12/22/12 is our last best hope. If it just all continues without catastrophe, we are sure to lose all our rights as the Elite become more tyranical. And then there are the Camps built for Conservatives. But they could "serve" the poor just as well.

The tyrannical elite and "Camp Conservative". I can see it now, a rabid band of militant feminists lowering a roped Rush Limbaugh into the crocodile pond. Snap, crackle, pop... goes the hot air balloon.

Isn't it ironic, that so many readers from this site worry about money as they indulge in their proclivity for misanthropy. And yet, Doom Kunstler has a rather impressive column of potential income streams on the right and bottom placements of his webpage. I noticed that An Inquiring Mind failed to note this irony amidst his condescending declarations, but I wonder if you have also failed to notice? You have previously stated that you have bought JHK's books so you're obviously aware of his hard work and hopefully well-rewarded efforts.

But what's a by-the-bootstrap conservative like you doing lamenting finances on a communicative medium that is the equivalent of the Wild,Wild West? You're a smart guy and an idiosyncratic writer. Why not holster up those six shooters and take aim. And who knows, if you aim patiently and precisely, you too might wake up in the morning to see how much money you earned while sleeping.

But if I was King you wouldn't have to concern yourself with such worldly affairs; people such as yourself shouldn't have to. I would take a page out of Spider's book and have you spend your days doing something truly worthy, like explicating and analyzing the works of your beloved Kierkegaard. But that's the liberal in me speaking.

I was beginning to think stupefying grind, with you hurling what appeared to be an unending salvo of optimistic ordnance, and I was almost prematurely critical. But then my mind phrased the inquiry, "who am I, at this Easter time, to crack the shell of this optimistic egg and make it a tasteless, overdone omelette?"

This gave me pause, which gave me reflection, which reminded me of David Deutsch's book, "The Beginning of Infinity".

In it he states, ..."every putative physical transformation, to be performed in a given time with given resources or under any other conditions, is either:

- impossible because it is forbidden by the laws of nature; or
-achievable, given the right knowledge".

So, fill your Easter basket with optimism, but remember that not only chocolate bunnies are eaten.

If you found a book titled "Optimism and the Grave", would its author be I. Dide Laffing?

Hi BB, your cup of common sense seems to be running over. Might need a bowl.

In line with your comments on science and engineering, you reminded me of a little something I did quite some time ago. Here it is:

Visions roll the wheel and light the fire
Thoughts become Gothic spires
A brush of pen
A stroke of pliers
Ideas of skyscraper steel
Rivets forged in mind's desire.

The Jews were just a small part of the Semetic Sub Race. Toynbee didn't believe they warranted being called their own Civilization, but rather just one nation in the Syrian Civilizatin.

They got writing from a larger Semetic People, perhaps the proto Phonecians.

Thank you Buck, I appreciate that. I don't think I should have to work either in the pork belly sense. But alas, properity is not in my stars: I have a stacked deck with too many Jacks but not enough 6's and 7's.

Like Hitler, I refuse to get a job. I await Destiny's call. Too bad we don't have more doss hauses. The pavement is a hard pillow. Oh well, that's a few years away and perhaps the Dealer will let me pick up a few new cards.

Tuscon...very impressive. Thanks for sharing!

Praise from a heavyweight, I feel like drinking Champagne!

Hope you catch'em, Vlad. Whatever makes your hand.

AIM is not who he appears to be.

AIM said "Man predicts consequences Planetary Deathand comes up with solutions Conservation of Energybefore the problem Rising Carbon Dioxide levels manifests.

Sometimes Man The First World misses the boat Doesn't Mitigate Carbon Dioxide Rise and a crisis arises Global Warming.

This raises his "necessity level" Panic Button and he is then forced to solveForced to solve the problem in short order."

Some fates can't be solved, only avoided. Because if fate turns to reality, we have by definition not avoided it; rather we are already in it. We are limited at that point to other fates the current reality doesn't preclude.

By the time we are moved to necessity we are by definition, too late.

People don't seem to understand that the billions upon billions of BTUs of solar heat the Arctic sea is absorbing isn't real damage to the Earth's equilibrium.

The most naive among them simply can't believe it will affect them in their lifetime.

This is a new species of Global Warming Denier.

By extension, people who deny action on Global Warming are the part of the problem.

Look in the Mirror, dude.

You are the cause of Global Warming. You are the person driving the drought, bringing the pestilence, the misery, and the horror. Otherwise there would be political will to change course, and even try to implement the "solutions" you suggest are even possible.

"...or create a stop gap measure Injecting the atmosphere with Silicon Dioxideuntil the problem Rising Temperatures can be more effectively handled Less Chaos at a later dateWhich is unimaginable."

Solutions continue to become more sophisticatedComplex and dangerous because of the closeness of the Event Horizon.

Every year that goes by, the problem becomes harder to solve.

"We've been through ice ages, droughts, famines, pestilences, plagues, world wars, etc. etc.

Have faith."

Did... faith "Solve" any of the problems mentioned above?

Faith that solar panels will appear on my roof is like faith that Health Care will be available when I'm dying? No, people have to "fight" for their rights. How about today? Can you fight for your rightS?

Dagny Taggert gets wet reading such words! All things are having intercourse at all times. What is a screw after all? Each one cost $10 in Navy Contracts.

Take it to a higher level and adore the Feminine but beware the Female. Women - do the same for us and all will be well again.

"Hey Vlad, I'm just finishing up Peter Longerich's new bio of Heinrich Himmler. At 750 pages it has to be the final word on the Reichsfuhrer SS. Your outlook appears to be pretty similar to what his was.
--WSP7"

Well, I find that reassuring. He lived to the ripe old age of, lessee... oh yeah, 45. How did he go out again? Oh, that's right...
(Don't worry about giving away the ending; we can google it. Google is already busy with a "good 'Merkin" database, of which H.H. himself would be justly proud.)

"No looking, but how many calendars there are? (Ie, how many do you need to serve forever?)" -ak

I have no idea; do tell!
That's an intriguing bit of arcana, BTW.

Yep, very good stuff! Nicely subversive. ;o)
Man, the lead singer gots hisself some high tenor; good vid from Austin City Limits.

Not sure how much of their crank would come through solo-like. Might be a case of the sum of the parts being greater than the whole, eh?
Fr'instance, on "Righteous Path" the lead is accomplished with mostly one note! They can get away with that; not sure I could.

Toynbee didn't believe they warranted being called their own Civilization, but rather just one nation in the Syrian Civilizatin.
==

I don't know who Toynbee is and why I should care, but your Toynbee character is sounds like nothing more than a political hack. If what you say is true, his/her nonsense would parallel me saying that the American civilization didn't warrant being called its own civilization because it is just another nation in the larger Latin civilization. If one can't discern the uniqueness of culture, philosophy and outlook on life and way of life, and everything that's derived from that, then really there's no point to even bother with such obvious political hacks.

...And, I had forgotten to add: Is the "public" of today best served by itself? Does it really know what's good for itself, or has it been entranced and enslaved to a point where it robotically believes the bullshit dispensed by money-grubbing arch-criminals?

...And, can that question be looked at dispassionately?

Will do.
Good to "see" yez! Hope everyone is having some fun (whistle while you work). :o)

ha ha, nice try there, kyoo-check...actually, she flounders about in my bed with genuine enthusiasm, and has the most beautiful slate-blue eyes you ll ever see...

JulettaofOhio - presuming you are from Ohio - there are still plenty of tracks all over Ohio. Of course your Teabag Gov John Kasich cancelled the Rail project to finally restore passenger service from Cincinnati to Dayton to Columbus to Cleveland on existing tracks and right of way. Although this project was listed as part of Obama's "High Speed Rail" initiative in fact it would have just restored ordinary 90-100 MPH passenger service in only 2-3 years and would have been due for completion next year or so. Except Teabagger Kasich nixed it. It should be no surprise that Kasich'sTransportation Head is a former head of the Paving lobby in Ohio. ;-)
Like the rest of the US Ohio actually has tracks and Rail rights of way all over the State. You should check out the Rail Maps Atlas for details.
To wit I know there are intact Rails from both Northeastern and Northwestern Cincinnati to the downtown paralleling I71 and I75 some of which used to serve and still run through Proctor and Gamble's huge complex there.
As usual it is simply a matter of getting rid of Paving contractor Transportation heads or Koch Bros funded teabaggers like Gov Kasich to get them going again.
Cincinnati is building a very limited trolley system downtown. At least it is a start but it would make a lot more sense to simply begin running frequent passenger service either commuter rail or lightrail along already existing tracks. As mentioned like the Rails which parallel I-10 from Baton Rouge to New Orleans, these Rails already parallel major Interstates because they were there first and the Interstates were built to take away their transit traffic.
Tell your Representatives to get the Rails running again!

They have more yottobytes on me then they do on you. La de dah ha ha ha.

A couple of years ago I went to Oakland to learn horticultural skills at a most excellent school of 'higher' learning. On Monday this school was raided by the IRS, DEA and the U.S. Marshals. Records were seized.

Some of those yottobytes now be storin info on this dogs valedictorian status earned upon completion of a two day class there a couple of years ago. They can see my mug in the class graduation picture too.

And so the drug war rolls on. I read somewhere that there are now more black men in prison due to the drug war than existed in the entire country in 1850. If true that sure qualifies as a fun fact. I wonder if quObama takes drugs to make himself look darker than he really is. Didn't somebody did that to write a book once?

Richard Lee runs a reputable and profitable school. He makes sure to operate within state and local law. This raid can be understood by understanding that Richard was the driving force behind Proposition 19 a California measure that would have legalized adult use of marijuana in 2010.

I told Eric Holder last week to look into that business down in Florida last week and now dammmit I have to fire him. When the IRS, DEA and the U.S. Marshal coordinate somebody high up has to have something to do with it. The buck stops somewhere does it not?

Well I'll have to wait until I'm elected to do that. You have to fire quObama before I do that. Vote for the dog!!! In the meantime you can help in a small way to fight the injustice and blatant harassment of a political opponent (Richard Lee).

K-DOG for PREZ!!!!

Orbit7er, what happened in Ohio is a perfect example of why JHK so firmly believes the U.S. is truly a CFN. The sheer size of the country--and most of the states--is such that passenger railroads and trolleys should be a no-brainer.

Perhaps if the current trend among younger Americans to avoid buying a car continues, some of these projects may happen, eventually. And for those younger Americans who really do need some form of regular, personal motorized transport, this could be a golden opportunity to permanently convert them to Vespa scooters (75-90 mpg).

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/why-dont-young-americans-buy-cars/255001/

Just wanted to post a photo update of our move into temporary living quarters in the north Georgia mountains
==============

Tripp, I was reading a few entries at your blog and was facinated by the name Tradd Cotter. If I ever write some fiction that requires a character from the deep south that will be his name.

I don't know if I'd get rid of those power tools. Physical labor gets harder as you get older.

Good luck at your new site.

Q

My position on cannabis is to decriminalize adult use and possession of non commercial amounts. Growing your own should be a civil right. Commercial cannabis sale should be regulated and subject to local control. - DUH

That's easy -- 14.

What's my prize?

What will the material costs for yr new house be?
And who owns / occupies the Macon Place?
The future will be DIY!

Toynbee, no doubt a goy.

Toynbee:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_J._Toynbee

In other words, I'm wrong. This is what's called reductio ad Hilterum. If Hitler and the Nazis said something, it's automatically wrong since they're the Devil.

So if Hitler was against the gold standard, the gold standard must be good. If Hitler was for the Nation State, it must be a bad idea. If Hitler believed in the survival of the White Race, we must therefore work for the elimination of the White Race. If Hilter said 2+2=4, we must change mathematics, etc.

Obama is talking about how Courts can overstep their place - this from a Liberal/Socialist! The Supremes must have voted down the individual mandate in Obamacare and someone leaked it. Good news, at least in the preliminary vote.

Don't bother the Great Jew. Toynbee was just a goy at best, and perhaps even a Vatican Asset or what he calls me "a Vatican Sith".

I read that Steve Jobs was ripping off his stockholders at Apple. The Employees got the lion's share of the profits somehow. At least he shared his ill gotten gains with his comrades.

K-dog quotes Time quoting Obama:

We've got to develop every source of American energy, not just oil and gas but...

Like I said, the world's leaders are firmly committed to developing every ounce and cubic foot of fossil fuels that can be developed. IPCC emission scenario A1F1 (Fossil Intensive).

Eocene by 2100. Guaranteed.

Good article on the Treyvon Martin case. We have passed the point of Peak White Guilt. Even NBC has apologized for lying.

http://www.counter-currents.com/2012/04/trayvon-and-the-end-of-white-guilt/#more-25301

Damn KAIHO don't make be agree with you.

Can't they understand if we don't take care of the pups it's all worth nothing?

Eocene? In what sense? Technologically? Or in tems of the lack of surface oil?

What about using the methane escaping from the Artic? If the Earth farts, who are we to hold our noses?

Actually most appropriately a lack of human beings.

Thanks, IWASAKI. Basically, a nazi/vatican British imperialist agent. I should have guessed, this coming from Vlad.

Climate, atmospheric CO2 and methane. And the return of those cute, little Eocene horses.

Trapping the methane escaping from the Arctic is technologically a bridge too far for the 21st century. We're going to let it outgas into the atmosphere--there's nothing else we can do. しょうがないね。

Oh, there will still be a lot of human beings in 2100. Just not as many as there are now.

The world's leaders sincerely believe (not everything they do is utterly corrupt) that following a fossil intensive path is the only way to take care of the pups. They can't really envision any other way.

Sir Arthur Eddington, one of the 20th century's greatest physicists, said it best I think:

"If your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation."

So, qualitatively at least, we know where the end of the fossil fuel age is. When it requires as much energy to extract and refine an energy source as the source provides, it stops being an energy source. To me that hard reality is very reassuring. Watching extraction shift from near-surface, pressurized light sweet crude to low-grade crap like fracked NG and oil shale is like watching the end of the Super Bowl in slow motion when you already know the final score...

I read that Steve Jobs was ripping off his stockholders at Apple. The Employees got the lion's share of the profits somehow. At least he shared his ill gotten gains with his comrades.
============

How so? In what way did he rip off?

How were his gains ill-gotten?

Take a look at Apple's long term stock chart. The avg Apple stock holder is vastly ahead. The stock has doubled in the last year alone.

That's why 500 ppm CO2 by 2100 is baked in the cake, but 1,000 ppm may not be.

'Jaego Scorzne
Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:46 pm | Permalink'

INDEED, INDEED.
Cant keep a good dago down.I mean dago.

"man i am so tyred of troglodyte anti-progress types."

You and your ilk are the anti-progress types. You want everything to continue on exactly as it is now, unchanged. You expect majikal "tech" solutions to be delivered to you, *just-in-time*, by someone else. *YOU* do not want to put forth any effort whatsoever, in order to progress toward any sort of sustainable/renewable future. You just reap the rewards, and dump the problems on future generations.

"large-scale tree planting has very positive effects on atmospheric levels of co2."

Oh, please - open your eyes. This wouldn't even come close to offsetting a *fraction* of the annual Amazon Basin clearcutting that is going on, in your neck-of-the-woods.

"who said we should only plant a 'few' trees?"

I believe these were *your* exact words, "plant a damn tree."

"and re googling the latest climate change models...whose models? the ones which show no/no appreciable warming?"

I suggest you look directly at real/actual/measured data, which involves 3 main trend charts. The first is the annual global temperature trend (going back a good 150 years, maybe look at massive polar region differentials). The second is the global CO2 atmospheric trend (even the ones that goes back 400,000 or 800,000 years from ice cores). The third is the global solar irradiance trend (which shows we have just come out of the ~6 year long solar minimum). If you need to go further, look into radiative absorption coefficients of nitrogen and carbon dioxide, and develop your own simple model using science/physics (maybe throw in snow reflectance).

"multiply that by millions of trees, or a billion."

Assume: ~20,000 square kilometers are clearcut in the Brazilian Amazon each year, ~400 trees per acre in the Amazon. That comes out to *2 billion trees* clearcut EVERY YEAR, just in the Brazilian Amazon...

And the "no-caps" thang ain't really helpin' your argument much, either (but perhaps it helps you mentally, to remember which *sock-puppet* you're logged into)...

And, as turkle suggests, I'm not sure any of these nay-sayers even bother going outside, and looking around (or going online, and doing a real investigation, without relying on being MSM spoon-fed)...

How can the robust male NOT adore the feminine? But yes, the female, the she-cat with claws that can scar, poses a seductive danger. How many have ecstatically writhed with her, limbs entwined, only to have their emotional jugulars severed?

Dagny Taggert. Nice. I remember Dominique being so hot for Howard I thought she would melt. But there you go. Feminine and the she-cat. Could be a pleasant dilemma.

Blood and swords.

What's with the 6's and 7's? A bit above mid-deck or are you thinking zeroes? And jacks? Jacks being knaves?

Wow, what a total douche-bag. Really? You're correcting someone's spelling mistakes from another forum *HERE*?!?

And how did you miss all of welles' glaring faults? Do you not read his poasts (or is it a sock-puppet 'in-character' thang)?

You and your ilk are the anti-progress types.

Thats very good, The truth is as you know, those who advocate 'technical solutions' are actually behind the technological curve and are mired in the past. Ironically they have not actually kept up with intellectual technology.

They are no better than politicians. Building a sustainable/renewable future would be the greatest technical achievement of all time. Participating in making it happen the best thing one can do. Saving the pack is a satisfying thing to do.

A similar thing happened at the end of the Mousterian. I'd explain but I have a job interview in a few minutes.

Wow, what a total douche-bag.
=============

Douche-bag? Perhaps. But total? That's going a bit too far.

"apparently the earth is facing a huge freezing threat and stopped warming in 1997"

Really? You're also going to claim that the global temperature hasn't changed in the past 15 years? Have you ever done any investigation into the plethora of free data out there yourself, without simply biting, hook-line-sinker, the MSM story-du-jour?

So if the global temperature has "stopped warming"/gone down since 1997, why is 2010 the highest annual global temperature on record? Why is 2005 the second highest? Why is 1998 the forth highest, behind 2007 in third?

www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/12/global-temperature-news/

climateforce.net/2012/01/21/nasa-2011-global-temperatures-9th-warmest-year-since-1880/

Might be worth taking all that "stopped warming" data since 1997, and doing a simple linear curve fit. If you'd like, throw in 1996, 1995, or whatever else you think you can include to make the slope zero/negative (*HINT* - you can't make it non-positive, even by DELETING 1997).

PS, anyone notice which prediction of mine was just verified as *false* above?!... Hehehe! Solar irradiance isn't ramping as fast as I thought it would, from the 6 year solar minimum flux. You gotta admit, the recent variability in annual global temps has really tightened up, resulting in the last 6 years' worth of data butting right up against the max...

PPS, asoka and his sock puppet multitudes (ya think it's MPD/DID?)...

"They'll build nuclear plants in the proper locations, they'll be safety factor upon safety factor implemented"

LOL!!! Someone obviously hasn't been keeping up with the investigations of Greg Palast:

http://www.gregpalast.com/the-fukushima-story-you-didnt-hear-on-cnn/

And most of these behemoths are on their last legs, being on average 30-40 something years old, with all kinds of cracked piping in the boilers...

"www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/in-depth/2009/10/24/ian-plimer/heaven-and-earth

'During past glaciations, carbon dioxide was higher than it is today.'"

Wow, just *WOW*!!! There is data going back almost *1 MILLION YEARS*, that shows our current CO2 levels are over 33% higher than anything recorded during that period.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png

Nothing but cherrypicked data in "this book's 504 pages"...

"Do you want mustard on that ham sandwich?"

Apple cider vinegar and horseradish!!!

And, FWIW, I always thought that asia and 6969 were more of the said-same DID *sock puppets*...

"But do we really have enough to get the PPM even that high?"

At this point, it's really a huge problem of sequestration of CO2. The ocean has absorbed a huge amount of CO2 over the past few decades, becoming quite saturated (and acidic). As the ocean warms, it is forced to release excess CO2 above saturation (think *warm soda pop*). Also, the trees that used to capture air-born CO2 have been clearcut to near extinction (happened in Europe 6-9k years ago, North Africa[Saharan Desert] back 5-8k years ago, same with Turkey/Saudi Arabia/Iraq/Iran/South Asia).

But you may be correct - once we saturate the atmosphere with a high enough concentration of CO2, it will expand from greenhouse effect, pushing quite a bit of "air" out into deep space, sucking a lot of it all off the planet due to solar wind (out the ozone holes?)...

"If someone can't take care of and have a healthy personal environment (body), I surely wouldn't be listening to their thoughts, ideas and projections about the outlying environment."

LOL!!! Perhaps because the *UNDERLYING ENVIRONMENT* is exactly what has placed (him) us _ALL_ in this same, sickly, filthy predicament?

You do realize fully that all drinking water contains *GHAD*-only-knows-what traces of organic GMO/chemical compounds that recycle and concentrate, as a result of all the poison/prescriptions (we) _YOU_ *flush* into our drinking water?!?

And _YOUR_ GMO crops, requiring ever more pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizer, are contributing even more to the runoff/x-pollination problem? Such a *HOLIER THAN THOU* posture, indeed. Take your faith, and cram it. I need no belief in some superpredator that requires my prayers in order to be 'saved'.

OK, soker, we'll let you kill *this* sock puppet off - for now.

"...sustainable development is no longer possible; world leaders waited too long."
-KI-

He's right, Kaiho, with a degree of certainty that approaches 100%. Just too many damn humans, and new young billions in India and China that want consumptive lifestyles and have zero interest in "sustainability," however that word, and that concept, translates in Mandarin or Hindi.

I'm enjoying your posts, BTW, and I hope you stick around and keep posting. And that YouTube on the Kamikazes was really something. And it lead me to other videos on Japan in WWII. I didn't know so much movie footage had survived the war. I appreciate the reverence in which Japan holds her war dead. We could all gain something from trying to understand that.

Those who do not learn from the past.....

OK, soker, we'll let you kill *this* sock puppet off - for now.

==============

All your sock puppets are belong to me. [sic]

Hey, I've gotten a real good kick out of reading Gaia's Garden (over 1/2 way through). I especially love the descriptions of the monoculture lawns, extrapolated to the monoculture crops, and the total insanity of them all. And how they eventually foul the soil so badly, that it's a neverending spiral downwards, requiring ever more fertilizer, pesticide, herbicide, water, and weeding/aeration. FWIW, my neighbor in the back just mowed his "weed and feed" lawn for the 4th time in the past couple months (mine could use it's first cutting)...

I found I had discovered a lot of the points made early on in the book about in-place renewal, but it gave me a great idea for something in my backyard (Hugelkultur a 30 year old deciduous mammoth, with large 'edge').

One thing I found interesting, is about how you can boost the microbes/soil quality, by grabbing a few quarts of soil from the local forest. I'm lucky, I've got a nice stand of 'fairly' old growth (at least 100 years) only 2 miles away. I feel for the idjits in the midwest, that might get lucky finding a 30 year old hedgerow within 20 miles (GMO Corn/Soybean land)...

"And so the drug war rolls on. I read somewhere that there are now more black men in prison due to the drug war than existed in the entire country in 1850." -K, the canine-

Yeah, K, that sounds about right. Truly bizarre, that's US drug policy. And US drug policy drives World drug policy - and World criminal syndicates.

If I were a native born US black, two things would make me really paranoid and pissed off. One is National drug policy and enforcement decisions. The other is US immigration policy - which has displaced much of the rest of the native born black population that was not displaced by economic decline and drug policy.
Damn.

-----------------------
On a related note - you mentioned Status QuoBama, as regards unchanging marijuana policy and stepped up enforcement.

I've been putting a new deck cap rail on the south side of my house today. (One of the rarely mentioned drawbacks of a passive solar house is the effect of all that damn Sunshine, on south facing exterior features.)

But, for some reason, while I've been working, I've been picturing Michelle and Barak lighting up a big doobie, after the day's political machinations were done. Maybe Michelle has Secret Service, CIA, and Vatican (Hi Mika) laborers slaving away in that White House garden of hers. And maybe they are growing prime hemp on the downlow.

It's just a thought, that kept me amused as I slaved away in the (unnaturally hot) Southern Spring sunshine.

"And his 'charity' is to Africa."

You know, that's funny, and something I can actually agree with. I remember my mom telling me about how Oprah (she's been an Oprah addict for 30 years) was giving all these donations to Africa. Mom was pissed that she wasn't doing it for all the impoverished/starving/malnourished children right here at home in the USofA (13% US children living in poverty? 17%? More?!?). TAKE THAT OPRAH!!!

"Homeless people, people without capital, are the true heroes as they walk lightly on the Earth."
-bustinJ-

Bustin, give most any homeless guy 100 grand, US - and he'll turn into the most profligate consumer imaginable - burning petrol and destroying nature for however long (not very) his money lasts.

It's us firewood burners and slowly striving potential permaculturalists that you should be considering the heroes. And yeah, I get the irony, from your perspective.

================
On an unrelated note - here's an update on my food storage program.

As I detailed about a month ago, now - the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, is what you should seek out if you want to store food for hard times. Those folks KNOW what they are doing. And the offer it to the public - CHEAP.

Hard red winter wheat - sprouts like crazy. The sprouts taste very good, with a sweet tender edge, for the first few days. After that, the sprouts become as tasty as grass out of the mower bag - but not as tender.

Pinto beans sprout well, but taste bitter and "beany." That probably means they have lots of vitamins and are very good for you. For some reason, most of the things that are very good for you - always taste pretty bad to me.

Black bean sprouts taste a little better than pinto bean sprouts - not a lot, but if TS impacted TF, to the point that I was eating my $1.00/day LDS food storage program for real - I'd be WISHING I had more stored black beans in cans.

I've got all three of the above mentioned types of seeds now sprouting - for real, in real time - out in my garden. Everything looks pretty good right now. Barring a late frost, I'll be expecting wheat, pinto beans, and black beans by mid-summer. I'll try to remember to make a report in a couple of more months.

"The way I perceive the threat of atmospheric CO2 to work is that it acts as an insulator surrounding a great big engine we call the atmosphere."

Actually, CO2 is more-or-less "uniformly" distributed throughout the atmospheric medium. But that would prolly not make much of a difference WRT a *model*.

"In this well-insulated engine energy is free to move and collect in pockets and cause extreme weather events."

I'm actually thinking it allows a hell of a lot more solar irradiance to be absorbed into the atmosphere (due to the positive absorption coefficient of CO2 over N2), thus resulting in your, "extreme weather events."

"Air also exchanges heat a lot faster than water"

Not exactly true. Air-cooled computers run much hotter than water-cooled ones. But I think you might be 'reefer'ing to the exchange of heat from vapor to liquid as being highly insulative - thus the solar irradiation/flux heat absorbed by the atmosphere is not readily attenuated by the oceans.

"so, again according to the law of entropy (the second law of thermodynamics), the energy differential between air mass and ocean can be substantial, creating a capacity for the system to do work, which we perceive as weather. The more wildly the temperature differential swings between ocean and atmosphere, and the better that engine is insulated,"

more likely, the more solar irradiance absorbed by the atmosphere with elevated CO2 content

"via greenhouse gases, the more severe the weather events tend to be."

BINGO!

""Global weirding," not global warming."

Nah, it's global warming, and the proof is in the annual global temperature measurements. Pretty cut and dry - 2010 was the highest on record, 2005 was second, 2007 was third, 1998 was forth, and the next 6 were all in the past 15 years.

"Everything is just more extreme until the trend reverses, gently or catastrophically, who knows. That's my take anyway. So why add to the problem?"

Another BINGO! Bah, we're arguing with disinformant agents!!!!

"And maybe they are growing prime hemp on the downlow."

Either you are supremely enlightened, or extremely paranoid - and I'm not sure yet which to think!

Oh, yeah, dug that CotLDS foodbank bit a week or so back (Ayup, I did read it)...

". I feel for the idjits in the midwest, that might get lucky finding a 30 year old hedgerow within 20 miles (GMO Corn/Soybean land)..."

Yeah, but there will still be pockets of deep dark soil here and there, and probably not a lot of people to fight for them! I feel for the loneliness of people in dying midwestern towns. I've only had one hit at my blog from the entire state of North Dakota; one hit. How many people live there? 16? 17? I've had that many people tune it from Jordan.

Anyway, if you're really good at being alone the midwest might end up being a lovely place to be! Although, on a side note, St. Louis has never been a very good place to be, regardless of energy access...

Pretty cut and dry - 2010 was the highest on record
==============

We've covered this ground before but aparently it didn't sink in.

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/cutanddry.html

"The pollutants that man is sending into the atmosphere ... will be reduced as we go forward"

Are you F*'n serious? You still lack ability to look at the trend since 1960, and can't seem to grasp that it is *EXPONENTIAL* in nature, and not due to any known natural source, other than anthropogenic production via humans burning solid carbon?!?

Let me help you:

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

Oops, I forgot, you were *retired* - heh!

"Douche-bag? Perhaps. But total? That's going a bit too far."

Ahh, yes we have, you are completely "cut and dry."

^even the ones that go

I figured you'd have poasted that one first!

"stop phreaking wurrying about grobar warmin"

hahaha!!! "t-t-t-too much time on *YOUR* hands (cha-ching!)"

"Yeah, but there will still be pockets of deep dark soil here and there, and probably not a lot of people to fight for them!"

You do realize those pockets will be nothing but saturated pesticide/herbicide/GMO tailings? That's why I feel even MORE sorry for them, in the *BREADBASKET* of the world...

That water is so renewable - just tell that to all your friends in the deep south/Tejas. Sh!, I bet they'd actually pay for hormone ridden water to spew over their hardpan...

"I've only had one hit at my blog from the entire state of North Dakota; one hit."

Ah, yeah - they have their own central bank - don't *they* Fed Reserve *TAKE NOTE*!!! Your printing press money, given freely *ONLY* to TBTF banksters at 0% interest, which they leverage 30:1 (my point?). Oh, man - how do I get into that CASINO (let alone the mega millions LOLZ!)...

On considering the term "flounder," as a sexual compliment to certain nubile young human females -

CF - my wife is out of town on one of our many, and sadly unfortunate, recent adventures related to aging family members. She was in no mood for me to take up the sexual nuance of the term "flounder," on the phone - as a complement or otherwise. Rest assured that I will broach the topic with her ASAP, in person.

And I find the idea of a female bed partner as a "flounder," to be unique - and, at least somewhat, erotic. If you have ever hungrily pursued a flounder over the seafloor, as I have, you will have vivid memories of the undulating motion, the energetic gyrations - always parallel to the planar soft smoothness of the bed - - err, I mean the seabed.

By way of extricating myself from this orgiastic dilemma - I present to CFN the orgasmic and ovulatory machinations - of the Panda Bear.
http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/04/why-panda-sex-is-so-complex/?hpt=hp_c2

presto - digits!

Not too hard to figure that one out by one's self (hahaha, buck that analy-solipsis!!!)

"Perhaps it popped into my head because you're always talking about covering the earth in skyscrapers."

As long as he avoids his multiple-times-in-a-row mega-walls-long poasts of I(heart)PHILOSOPHY x-poasting, he seems at least semi-human/coherent.

Well, barely, anywaze/./

A lil' ol' titbit I thought might be nice to share
===============

If you're "chiefly British" stick with titbit, otherwise it's tidbit.

po'c said ""Homeless people, people without capital, are the true heroes as they walk lightly on the Earth."
-bustinJ-

Bustin, give most any homeless guy 100 grand, US - and he'll turn into the most profligate consumer imaginable - burning petrol and destroying nature for however long (not very) his money lasts."

Money that does not last does not destroy nature. A fool and his money are soon parted. The problem with your rebuttal is that it is not properly understanding the principle... say, does your salary depend on it? Hmm?

Calling Upton Sinclair....

The bum is in touch with his own needs. He manages to survive, and can take pride in that considering how much other people "spend" to "survive"... many orders of magnitude less energy intense.

In many cases, he takes what would otherwise be refuse and uses it. His idea of air conditioning is all-natural. His heat is borrowed from what would otherwise be wasted. And money? He'd blow it all on drugs, to shorten his own life.

In the final analysis you have a judge a man by his choices. If he knows better, he fails by inaction. If he doesn't, he is free, but his fate is out of his hands.

Everyone is dependent on everyone else. Your personal fate is more or less determined, or at least circumscribed, at this point, by other people, if your own biological limits aren't already established.

That is, you are all going to have "unnatural deaths" because Global Warming is a kind of genocide- a murder.

You've been living in your own crime scene.

Nobody, almost nobody anywhere on the net, has enough respect for what healthy ecologies can do to restore fertility and busted mineral cycles, especially what mushrooms can do. It's a fascinating field to be an ad hoc part of, and I am already convinced, after only 4 years, that just about anything can be repaired quickly with proper stewardship. It's just hard to find that sort of thing in the U.S.

So yes, pesticide ridden soil, temporarily. But as soil quality improves so does brain function, so you end up with a nice positive feedback loop fairly quickly.

"especially what mushrooms can do"

On your advice? (perhaps) I have been gathering local mushrooms for the past 3 years and tossing them in my garden. And I've actually had success - you know when you see mushroom growing in a barren field, things are going to eventually come to *fruition*.

I almost stepped on the 3rd emerald green tree frog I've seen on my property (1 every year, past 3). And I'm sure they're here because of the Amanita Muscaria I gathered, from within a 6 block radius of my house. I know, frogs and shrooms - never woulda believed it tho...

"So yes, pesticide ridden soil, temporarily"

Really? That shit takes DECADES/YEARS to break down. And some lasts forever. They literally brought in the toxic chemical bath, and covered the topsoil...

I mean, they literally bring in the TOXIC STEW right *NOW*, and bathe the land in a poisonous *SLUDGE*...

Also everyone should watch this video to learn about race and humanity in America TODAY. I thought you were one of the NOW people Asoka...

http://amren.com/news/2012/04/innocent-white-guy-rolled-in-the-hood/

I find this video signifcant (there are so many) because I've had Black Women try to set me up to get punched out just as this man was.

There have been at least a dozen known assaults on Whites and flash mobs in honor of Trayvon in the last week. Is this enough Asoka - or do you want full scale riots?

Its in, I guess.
Madonna etc dont adopt white US born children but
African blacks.
Ever hear of Rudy Guede? Amanda [hard] Knox?

Ex Army Blog. 'If Obama had a son'.

Hahaha! As *they* say, "hook, line, ..."

Damn, gramps - *CONTRIBUTE* already!!! Give us some of that uld-skul *WISDOM* already

'One of those cholesterol lowering drugs nearly killed me.'
Of course it did. Cholesterol is not a disease.
Much of modern medicine could be however.

"Pretty cut and dry - 2010 was the highest on record
==============

We've covered this ground before but aparently it didn't sink in. "

As in, it's pretty *GHAD* damned "cut and dry," right *NOW*, gramps!!!

Heh ;)~

I though you might be interested. Porter Stansberry: "by printing massive amounts of employee stock options (most of which went to executives) and then re-pricing them when their stock prices fell.

"Under the system, all of the company's cash flows (and more) would have to go to share buybacks in order to prevent massive dilution. Thus, the employees were actually stealing the company's earnings. Most people on Wall St knew this and were shorting the companies whose abuses were most egregious. But the scheme wasn't revealed to the public (outside our newsletter) until 2006 when the Wall Street Journal finally wrote about the issue.

"Steve Jobs, who was one of the most flagrant options abusers at both Apple and Pixar, got off the hook by naming Al Gore to the board of directors...and giving him millions in stock options grants. To this date, Apple Computer has not paid out a single penny in dividends to its rightful owners (its shareholders). Yet over the last decade, it has increased its outstanding share count via options issuance by 47%."

Is there any possibility, that *YOU* will all stop destroying every last living thing is *SIGHT*?!?

I'm begging you...

Very good point, Vlad.

This is yet another example of insider dealing and thievery at the highest levels, in cahoots with the government mafia, its "regulatory" and propaganda organs. But this is just a microcosm of what the Corporate System is all about. Because the corporate system is designed as system of predation where the gov mafia supplies the free credit (the fiat paper confetti) and the suffocating "regulations" that enable these gov mafia oligopolies. (And make no mistake. These corporations are owned by the same people that own the banks and the gov mafia). These corporations, these non-competitive mega-monstrosities are totally parasitic structures, and are designed to enslave and channel wealth to the insiders. They are designed to disable any true commerce from happening.

Douglas Rushkoff wrote a very easy to read book titled: Life, Inc.: How the World Became A Corporation and How To Take It Back. I highly recommend that everyone read it to really understand the fascist matrix in which we live.

" I've had Black Women try to set me up to get punched out just as this man was."

Is it possible Vlad, that your paranoia is robbing you of potentially fulfilling experience, and that the black women hitting on you didn't want to really see you get hit and hurt, that they simply wanted to take a ride "on your gorgeous white cock"?

But you'll never know, will you?

"by printing massive amounts of employee stock options (most of which went to executives) and then re-pricing them when their stock prices fell.
============

The subject of stocks, options, dividends, etc is too vast for a forum like CFN. There's no question that the big boys are holding all the cards and can play them pretty much as they please but, as I suggested before, look at a long term chart of Apple. It has gone from under $2 to over $600 since sometime in the 1980s. Its upward advance is exponential. An investor in AAPL who bought in Nov 2010 would be up more than 100%.

The biggest beef people have about AAPL is that they didn't (until very recently) pay any dividends. But the avg person doesn't realize that when a div is paid the company's stock price declines by a like amount. Take, for example, just today, VZ paid out 50 cents per share and T paid out 44 cents. Now, go to a High/Low/Close chart of these two stocks and you will see a gap down comensurate with the div payout.

"If I were a native born US black, two things would make me really paranoid and pissed off. One is National drug policy and enforcement decisions. The other is US immigration policy - which has displaced much of the rest of the native born black population that was not displaced by economic decline and drug policy."

Prog, I too have pondered exactly these points but realized that from a black American perspective they know their voices don't matter. A man who pisses in the wind gets wet. TPTB have now become so strong that progressive affluent dissent is easily ignored and those at the bottom of the social pile are not seen at all.

The media control is so strong that nothing gets into conventional media to challenge the party line. The 'War on Terror' has been invented and used for mass censorship, no other reason. Even here intelligent discussion has to compete with fake sales of shirts, and purses and whatnot. Nobody really comes here to sell anything, besides being inappropriate it's not worth the time. They are here to marginalize us.

It's discouraging but what can you do, give up?
Not me. As soon as other dogs begin to howl I'll be there.

It's discouraging but what can you do, give up?
==

1/ Educate yourself

2/ Organize

3/ Boycott their institutions and source of power:

Boycott their Banks
Boycott their Money
Boycott their Taxes
Boycott their Media
Boycott their Schools
Boycott their Corporations
Boycott their Military
Boycott their Political Parties
Boycott their Gov Mafia

4/ Out them out. Don't be afraid to call these thieving imperialist fascist fucks for what they are.

5/ NEVER GIVE UP!

But if the goose lays no golden eggs (dividends), you have to kill it (sell) to get any gold at all. An asset is a golden goose. The latter is gambling. Obviously some people are good at gambling and make money at it. Most people aren't.

What am I missing?

I just thought the Jobs blurb was interesting since he's been made into a Saint of American Enterprise. He obviously was a remarkable man but morally ambiguous in alot of ways. His best defence is that "everyone is doing it". But this "everyone" is killing us.

Bought some T. Thanks again.

Did you watch the video? Do you think the women was really interested in him? If so, you are bizarrely on a tangential trajectory away from reality on this issue.

Don't be afraid to call these thieving imperialist fascist fucks for what they are.

I could not agree more.

One possible counter move is to pull:

'That's not politically correct.'