Suspended Civilization


     Question du jour: why is Jon Corzine still at large? In what fabulous Manhattan restaurants has he been enjoying plates of cockscombs and lobster with sauce hydromel and cinghiale ai frutti di bosco, while less well-connected citizens of this degenerate republic have to order their suppers from the dumpster in the WalMart parking lot where they have been living lately.
     Is there still an Attorney General in this country? Will somebody please follow Eric Holder down a hallway and see if he leaves a trail of sawdust on the floor. Or did congress just retract all the fraud statutes by stealth in the same way that the Federal Reserve handed out $7.7 trillion in bailouts back in 2008 (much more than the generally accepted figure of the $800 billion TARP) without anyone finding out until three years later when some Bloomberg reporters rooted the numbers out of a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) filing. And by the way, what is the US Federal Reserve doing handing out billions of dollars to the Royal Bank of Scotland? Was Scotland admitted to the Union by stealth, too? Or did Jamie Dimon just buy it as a birthday present for Barack Obama, who likes golf.
     This is what life in the USA is like nowadays: shit happens and shit un-happens, and you find out about it years later. Only a desperate and hopelessly degenerate nation would choose to live this way, in a law-optional society, in which money means everything, and yet nobody even knows what money is (or where it goes, and what it does when it goes there.)
     Jon Corzine has not revealed the destination of the loot (somewhere between $600 million and $2.5 billion, estimated) that vanished from the "segregated" accounts of his many clients at MF Global. The rumor is that it went to cover a rude margin call from Jamie Dimon's bank, JP Morgan, after JC took some unfortunate positions in European sovereign bonds in a bad month. Beyond the question of why Mr. Corzine is not in jail (as a flight risk, just like DSK) is how come the Department of Justice has not so much as issued a statement saying that they were looking into the matter, so as to reassure both the victims and the financial markets that this is not a culture that just makes shit up as it goes along - i.e. that we have predictable rules and formal procedures for doing stuff.
     The clowns and villains who run America have accomplished something really epic: they have vanquished meaning. Nobody knows what anything means anymore. Anything goes now. All bets are off. It's not reassuring. It leads to bad things happening like blood in the streets. When nothing means anything anymore, some people will actually strive, make an effort, to reestablish meaning in practical economic and political life, because civilized life is impossible without it. So, in those historic moments when civilization is suspended, people will work like hell to restore meaning. Sometimes though, like Germany in the 1930s, you discover that the suspension of civilization is itself intoxicating, and you ride with that for a while.
     Things are really flying apart now, and just in time for Santa Claus. The European bond rollovers are about to come in fast and furious during the season of Advent and nobody can make their interest payments. They will be skipped or postponed and promised for "next Tuesday," and yet the bizarro universe of credit default swaps will not be triggered - is there a counter-party on God's green earth who could afford a pay-out? Of course not. It was all a charade. So we'll just learn that there actually is no "insurance" on all this paper. Yesterday's "hair-cut" will be tomorrow's "throat cut" as the middle innings of suspended civilization play out.
      There are heroes as-yet-sung-and-unsung in America, people who prefer reality over reality-TV, people with a taste for meaning in life, which often requires the recognition that some things are true and some not so true, and you're better off with what's true. What appears to be true is that the old order is finished and a new disposition of things is coming along. The Long Emergency will beat a path straight to the Great Re-set. Sign up for it. Roll up your sleeves. There is so much to do in this country. If you are young, especially, it's all waiting for you.    _____________________________

    My books are available at all the usual places.


WOH100px.jpg  WMBH100px.jpg KunstlerCast_Cover100.jpgTLE100px.jpg Geography100px.jpg EOR100px.jpg

1154 Comments

Thanks, my Monday morning treat came a day early.

You forgot to mention that while the financial world is burning that Washington D.C is busy stirring the hornets nest in the Middle East, pissing off Russia & China, and apparently trying to get someone to shoot at us. Oh wait... Iran says they sis shoot at us and has one of our drone. Yikes.

What do you think... world war by Christmas?

Civlization is spelled incorrectly in title.

James - Civilization created history; and it will die a death with the end of history.

http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/being-beside-oneself-sharing-and-shamanic-ecstasy/

" The clowns and villains who run America have accomplished something really epic: they have vanquished meaning. "

Jim, I think you pegged the whole scam here. And there is no law for the Rich.

Lloyd: Perhaps it should be spelled
"Snivilizaton"

Personally, I'm still kinda surprised the can is still rolling THIS far down the road. But the road is getting rockier....

Happy Munday
:)

That last paragraph, Jim, eloquent & powerful, very eloquent & powerful.

--WSP7

Did Iran shoot at us and capture a drone? I missed it. Sorry, please post a link so I can get the shotshells out of the barn! ;o)

why not a jubilee. seems like a perfect solution?!

Mr. Kunstler,
I cannot thank you enough for keeping the MF Global issue in the forefront. I believe it to be a pivotal moment. Keep the pressure on this grotesque abuse. Meanwhile, the inevitable whacking of the beehive that is Iran seems to be escalating.

Jim,
Here in Australia, I welcome the earlier postings of the last two weeks. Nice not to have to wait until Tuesday morning. CU next Monday then hopefully!

Miss Stewart?
Leona? [Heck Ms Helmsly owned the Empire State Building and was Jewish].

Re: Iran

If Iran sent military aircraft into our airspace, does anyone have any doubt it would be shot down?

What was our military aircraft doing in their airspace?

If you don't want your stuff shot out of the air, don't send it where it shouldn't be in the first place.

P2C, I got thru 12 minutes of yr link..........
Its a great lecture of Govt and its fake math, fuzzy numbers.

'I've always known the US government was scamming the inflation numbers. But this video #16, shows that this was deliberate and orchestrated - and goes back into the 1960's.

Definitely worth 15 minutes and 42 seconds of anyone's time.'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPkTItOXuN0&blend=7&lr=1&ob=5

"our nation may truly regret losing sight of history, risk, and common sense"
-kevin phillips-


To BeanTownBill:

YOU are an example of the decline of CFN and its widespread weakness of thinking. You EXTRAPOLATE that just because I came down on Qshtik, I must be an isolated misanthrope. And Qshtik criticizes people for BULLSHIT like his chronic knuckle-rapping of spelling errors. When I criticize a person, it's on a much more substantive basis than that.

So, kiss my rosy red arse, Bill. I thought you were a clearer thinker than that but I adjust my opinions according to how people reveal themselves. Just because I "complain". Funny, you're on a WEBSITE whose featured guy, JHK, is a superlative KVETCHER but I don't hear you bitching about that because HE'S ACCURATE.

I guess only "stars" can kvetch otherwise we're "misanthropes". God, can ANYBODY see the inconsistency and hypocrisy of their own thinking?


E.

Is it a coincidence that the bill passed senate (by McCain) that labels America as part of the battlefield and allows the military to detain INDEFINITELY anyone including it's own citizens? Listed as reasons for being a suspect include seven days or more of stored food, missing fingers, stored ammo of any amount in waterproof containers, the list goes on. Its like a bad movie!

Who in their right mind is buying these Euroshit bonds? The same circle jerk of club members? We’re watching these megalomaniacs play Russian roulette. The gun has gone around the table once and no one got shot. Go ahead, punk. Your turn. Pick up the gun.

Bailey, it does not apply to citizens or lawful residents of the United States.

S.1867
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 (Placed on Calendar Senate - PCS)
Subtitle D--Detainee Matters
SEC. 1031. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE.
SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

(a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-

(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

Good thing we gots all them cheap digitile cameras lyin' around. What? The FBI's in all the satellite uplinks and telcos? Back to local news.

Some Thoughts On The Law

Laws are great.
Law enforcement hurts.

(observed/unobserved enforcement)

God, can ANYBODY see the inconsistency and hypocrisy of their own thinking?
==

LOL! I just love the irony, coming from the fat cat hypocrite who believes himself to be the "good German Nazi" while everyday he shows up to work at Goebbels' propaganda offices so he can receive his allocated portion of theft stolen by the nazi imperialist machine. And let's not forget the that delicious complaint of his about the riffraff he must deal with, those low intellects, who aren't interested in being programmed as obedient workers for the fascist machine.

JHK said: "Things are really flying apart now, and just in time for Santa Claus."

==================

Yes, E. said "we are in CRUNCH TIME" and things could collapse before Christmas.

This whole economic house of cards in both Europe and the USA could come down day after tomorrow, as could World War III.

Time is short. It is too late to prepare. We are so fucked ... or not.

Damn. I got kind of a buzz off that. For a moment I was in Huxley's novel.

ah jeeze, looks like their gonna have to start MWIII to distract everyone a little longer from the moths in the ol' wallet...fuck, i hope i have at least seven days to get my grubby little mitts on some food and some waterproof containers for the brass...nicknacks...soak, i think you missed the next section, which, according to the article i read in infoch.info (believe), seemed to provide just the language they need...suggestion- don t get too complacent, cuz after they come for your neighbors they ll come for you, and there won t be anyone left to help...much like the old saying...so you ll know, i believe new eggs can be eaten a few days to a week after fallout...don t eat cows, i m not sure about the milk- i ll look it up, and try to get back to y all with a report...

E, I did strongly berate you, but at the time I was fed up with EVERYBODY'S complaints, and you happened to be the last complaining poster when I "snapped". The reason I'm on this blog is not to listen to complaints - critical thinkers here know what our society's problems are - but to learn about possible solutions. And I don't see very many here, although I believe there ARE some.

Regarding Q's corrections, I have to take his side on this. Yes, there's seemingly more important issues to discuss here, but that's misleading. You, especially, ought to know that expressing oneself in writing reflects the state of one's thinking process. I see two benefits to Q's shtick: First, by constantly correcting posters' grammar and spelling, he's perhaps getting them to think a little more carefully about what they're writing, which might improve their clarity of thought. Second, it points out by example the sorry mental state of our society.

In any case, I do respect your writings and intellect, and I apologize for treating you badly. But, please! Use that intellect to offer up ways to deal with what may well be coming.


Okay, Bill ... slate is clean. I understand. However, Q. and you should both realize that many spelling errors are typing mistakes. I'd bet I could beat BOTH you and Q. in a spelling bee. I'd bet on it. The purpose of language is to COMMUNICATE and, in that regard, semantics and grammar are far, far more important than spelling. I stand by my accusation that Q.'s "brag" about his result in some contest was narcissistic and TOTALLY irrelevant to this blog. What CONTENT did it bring us? Should I write post if I win a chess tournament?? Sigh.

Okay, all that being said, here's a segue ... John Hussman's quote to end his weekly missive on this www.hussmanfunds.com website:

"Nietzsche famously said "What does not kill me makes me stronger." The corollary is "What constantly rescues me makes me weaker." The world will only stop looking for bailouts when policy makers stop handing them out."


E.

bean, this might be off topic for the week, but here goes: one can distill muddy water in a pot with a piece of clear plastic fastened loosely enough that a pebble on the middle makes a cone- H2O will drip into a cup placed inside, under ther the inverted cone...and i looked it up; you don t need the minerals, those are added at the treatment plant for flavor- not health concerns...

株式の信息:st銘柄早盤クロエコピーブランドコピーた續コピーブランドコピー商品ブランドハンドバッグ曜日整體ブランド 時計安ブランド コピー s級いコピーブランド態勢で沒有振で、現正在盤st博元サン?クリストフ、昌九サン?クリストフ、安彩サン?クリストフ、鈦白など6匹st株を早コピーブランド盤上限激安ブランドコピー受けスーパーコピー腕時計うになスーパーコピーブランド、st太化サン?クリストフ、黃海などスーパーコピーらに多くst株で2スーパーコピーブランドの都市のランキング上座を佔グッチスーパーコピー 時計著落幅コピーブランド地位していたスーパーコピー。年の瀨に近づいて、st株が再び嚴重バッグ・財布試練に直面ロレックスなブランド コピー s級偽ブランドばなコピー商品ブランドない。


JHK said:
And by the way, what is the US Federal Reserve doing handing out billions of dollars to the Royal Bank of Scotland? Was Scotland admitted to the Union by stealth, too?
***************************************************************

This is EXACTLY why I was so enraged last week. Moreover, Jim, I was also enraged that a blog allegedly soooo steeped in possessing the "inside dope" hardly reacted when I implied that the Fed just VIOLATED THE LAW by breaking their charter AND, once again, handing money to crooks while holding American citizens' feet to the fire on everything from their credit card interest rate to their mortgage loans. Unless you're living in the streets already, personal bankruptcy is hard to get.

The Fed, effectively, anointed themselves as the HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE last week. The Fed proves that the other branches of government believe that the legislative branch need not be consulted ... on ANYTHING. The rule of law has effectively already disappeared ... it has been "Gitmo-ed".

E.

I walk around during the week wondering and puzzling over a story like MF Global and not because there are is no clear analysis but because there is almost none at all. Thanks for your part in not letting stories like this be swept under the rug.

http;//alttransbikes.blogspot.com

クロエ概念股麻浦(現を共有しスーパーコピー 時計コピーブランドスーパーコピーハンドバッグ曜回轉六本ブランド 時計株式激安ブランドコピー5 %以高低降ロレックス、

第9都市(nasdaqgs:ncty)が1バレル16.39%、新7.05ドル;

インターネット(nasdaqgs連泳いだ:ccgm)が1バレル9.40%、新0.2188ドル;

奇虎360(nyse:qihu)が多コピーブランド、新18.33ドルで取引を終えた。

での下げ幅を記載しコピー商品ブランドのクロエコピーバッグ・財布ずブランドコピー4 %を超スーパーコピー 時計た二軒:

(nasdaqgs:cyou回っ). 66 %、報25.38ドルで取引を終えた偽ブランド

以次は、昔日の次要クロエ概念股變化情況を見守っている

(天門山)

引見:ルイ・ヴィトン(本理科技簡報)

i listened to gerald celente about the mother fucker took his gold, and for the first time i felt sorry for a millionaire...and somebody at info.info(sic) said maybe we ll get some real regulation now that the .01% are ripping off the .09%...

@CF'dN: anybody giving odds on whether we get financial meltdown or MWIII first? i ll take my payoff in 9mm brass or pemmican...prefer full copper jacket or elk...

somebody at info.info(sic) said maybe we ll get some real regulation now that the .01% are ripping off the .09%...

Isn't that the way it works, the big sharks start eating little sharks, the bourgeois class cries foul?

34th!!!

Civlization is spelled incorrectly in title.

Heavens, wait till the anal retentive blog spell checker gets wind of this, he'll be jumping right out of his footed pajamas.

Thanks as always, JHK


The MF Global and Corzine is a total outrage and yes, last week I mentioned that the money showed up in Morgan Stanley GB. Also the discussion of 600 million dollars became a discussion of over 1 billion.
I'm sure the fuzzy math will change yet again. It's like quicksilver. It's what makes the world go round and yet it's so illusive.

On 60 Minutes they discussed our pathetic attempts to bring the law to these perpetrators of economic fraud in the mortgage debacle which as always say, was the little engine that could bring down a world economy.

I believe that Holder is just a cardboard cut-out standing by his desk. Who knows where the 3-d guy is.
It was clear from the beginning of this administration that Holder wasn't going to look into any of the abuses that took place during the preceding 8 years, but as people have pointed out in the Chris Martinson videos, it was Clinton who instituted the fuzzy GDP numbers.

Oh, and JHK didn't you know, Geitner is back in Europe trying to convince them to do this thing our way, so as to keep the delusion that the USA has an economy.
Oh, Pleeze just keep it going for the election cycle and we'll tout the crappy employment numbers to the people.--And don't forget, our banks don't want to lose a red penny. But not to worry folks the American people will be happy to supply your banks with $Trillions.

Reiterating what I said last week, we are baiting a new cold war with Russia and China, we are tempting fate with Iran and China makes our military hardware, cuz it cheaper when they make it. Yep pretty soon you'll wake up to the realization that your government was outsourced.

Does any of this make any sense? The marvel is how are we still standing?

Yesterday I recommended that people check out another Chris Martenson video that basically bares out JHK's assertion that this thing will hit an unsustainable wall and there is no solution. It's called Unfixable:

http://www.chrismartenson.com/

JHK sez:
"The clowns and villains who run America have accomplished something really epic: they have vanquished meaning. Nobody knows what anything means anymore. Anything goes now. All bets are off. It's not reassuring. It leads to bad things happening like blood in the streets. When nothing means anything anymore, some people will actually strive, make an effort, to reestablish meaning in practical economic and political life, because civilized life is impossible without it. So, in those historic moments when civilization is suspended, people will work like hell to restore meaning. Sometimes though, like Germany in the 1930s, you discover that the suspension of civilization is itself intoxicating, and you ride with that for a while."

I've been watching this phenomenon for quite some time, always asking myself, "Don't Frank Luntz & Co. understand when they subvert concrete meanings they destroy any understanding in the process?"

Well, now we know that it was a purposeful dismantling. Hiding (and promoting) the criminality was what it was all about. Perhaps they knew the Great Crumbling was beginning and needed cover for stealing the last of everything not nailed tightly down or already filched.

Great and glaring point to heed, Mr. Kunstler, and I would also ask, "Why are Karl Rove and Frank Luntz still at large?" (Sure, they haven't "broken any laws", but the price of the evil they have done is incalculable.)

Police State, Forward... HO-oooh!

James has been decrying the lack of punishment for the financial class who precipitated the current economic crisis for years now, but it's gotten worse now that thousands of Occupy Movement participants, including members and leaders of the Coffee Party, have been arrested for protesting the impunity of the financial class during the past two months, while none of them have (Bernie Madoff doesn't count). That disparity really highlights the issue.

What's new is James actually giving out advice on how to prepare ourselves for the new world. My wife and I been planting a garden for the past four years. During the same time, I've been showing "End of Suburbia" to my students as a wake up call. That movie is looking more prescient all the time.

In contrast, I've been doing less gloom and doom over at Crazy Eddie's Motie News lately, as I'm participating in National Blog Posting Month; the theme for December is Gift, so there are lots of gift ideas for geeks scattered among the political posts. One is both--the Krugmans' suggestions for GOP presidential candidates. They didn't come up with one for Herman Cain, which ended up being a good thing. Krugman wins the forecasting award again! So, long Mr. Plan 999 from Outer Space!

http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

Babelfish reveals that you're a Rolex spammer and possibly even a bot. Welcome to Mos Eisley. We don't serve your kind here.

"The European bond rollovers are about to come in fast and furious during the season of Advent and nobody can make their interest payments. They will be skipped or postponed and promised for "next Tuesday," and yet the bizarro universe of credit default swaps will not be triggered - is there a counter-party on God's green earth who could afford a pay-out? Of course not. It was all a charade. So we'll just learn that there actually is no "insurance" on all this paper." -JHK

Another good indicator of the defacto Griftocracy! The pretend "insurance" was there to free up more gambling money and pump the leveraging. Now that these fees-fer-nuthin' scams are being revealed, the triggering of any payout will set precedent. That can't be done because it will reveal the "value" of the "assets" the pretend insurance is supposed to cover. The whole confidence game will then come tumbling down and the vampires will be deprived of their feedings. Can't have THAT, now can we?

I believe all possible tools and weapons will be brought to bear in the oppression department to quell domestic dissent and resistance before the huge theft comes to light. This will allow the greatest thieves of all time to remain in their positions of power and enjoy the fruits of their "labors" at the same time. Not sure how long this can be kept in place, and the populace in line. Tippy times. No justice? No peace.

And you're a Louis Vuitton spammer. Wow, are you ever in the wrong place to be promoting crass commercialism and mass consumption!

MF Global? Who cares about that anymore? That was news from about 3 weeks ago. Last week the MARKET pulled a 180 (as we used to say) and halcyon days are here again. All that doom and gloom from before Thanksgiving -- collapse of the Euro, Israel-Persian war, subsequent banking collapse in the USA, forget-about-it! Those problems have been solved ... by a few crafty moves on the part of American and European central bankers. Recovery is at hand. We are, once again, in a "growth cycle".

And there's more good news! Senator Schumer has a plan to 'bring back real estate': give visas to foreigners who would come here and buy distressed properties. And as JHK pointed out, when some Americans live in Walmart parking lots and scavenge for dinner in dumpsters, their President is off on yet another vacation, this time 17 days in Hawaii.

--WSP7

The temptation is to keep beating a dead horse, but we have to realize that this game is largely finished. Next on the menu is realizing that we are entering a period of time that will dwarf the European Dark Ages in brutality and scale and need to prepare now. Part of this is preserving our vital knowledge.

Visit the Leibowitz Society at http://leibowitzsociety.blogspot.com for commentary and information on preparing ourselves for the coming dark age.

Eat Mor Chikin

CFT, Since war will be the ultimate solution out of this mess, I'd say we're all going to using the Charlie Foxtrot Delta call here shortly.

9mm, .223, and seeds are all one should be buying each other as holiday presents...

"Oh, the weather outside is frighting...
let it snow, let it snow, let it snow...

WSP,
Now thar be some deeelicious snark! ;o)

(As an aside: Husqvarna of any XP model for chainsaw. Loads of tough-nut parts can be swapped out. By their price, one can tell these are not your disposable cheapies. I'm a bit disappointed in how quickly the bar wears, but I s'pose that's from more use than I would like to become aware of. ;o) I hear a lot of good things about Stihls, but I've not looked into repairs and replacement on those particular beasts. I've still got my old mid-70's Jonsered; later absorbed into Husqvarna; still runs strong.)

Jim, your closing paragraph - in addition to being a clarion call to those numb to the consequences of current events - was a expression of clarity for those of us who're challenged by the severity of circumstances now unfolding and incomprehension of our fellow countrymen to realize the impacts of those events. That realization will indeed occur but for some, belatedly. Well done and thank you, Sir.

What is truly amazing is that as the financial/social/economic system of the former united states falls apart, the average person is either so preoccupied with day to day survival, or with football or dancing with the stars, to even notice the falling apart.

A pundit, whose name I can't recall, recently said that americans will not wake up until their belly touches their spine (i.e. they are starving). Surely, we as a mass, will wake up to the reality of our economic demise far before starvation sets in. But then again, football is powerful, as is dancing with the stars. What would we do without television; thank god it will always be with us:)
Lock and load
wardoc

"Only a desperate and hopelessly degenerate nation would choose to live this way, in a law-optional society, in which money means everything,"
-jhk-

Indeed, Mr. K. Inflation is the only way out of our dilemma - monetary inflation, to make all these loans to our Government worth a whole lot less.

And inflation in population numbers in the US - to make the whole Capitalist Game appear to keep going and going, until it no longer can, due to "peak everything."

People in the US and around the world will be left holding the bag on that one. And the fact that our "intelligent? masters" in TPTB will live the global collapse - right along with the rest of us - will be only slight comfort.

Join NumbersUSA.
Contact your House and Senate reps.
The hour is late.

Ya, O, I understand Huskys and Stihls are for pros.

Like I mentioned my Poulin is sufficient for around the yard work, that's all. If you heat with wood, which I think you do, you need something better. Its good to hear you still have your saw from the 70's. It means you take care of your stuff. I like old, still useful machinery.

There have been many tree guys here of late from all over the US to help clean up after Oct. storm: I noticed they all had said Husquavarnas and Stihls. You cant beat Scandanavians when it comes to chainsaws (and goodlooking women)

Are you ready for another winter up there, Pete?

--WSP7

I've been watching this phenomenon for quite some time, always asking myself, "Don't Frank Luntz & Co. understand when they subvert concrete meanings they destroy any understanding in the process?"

Suspended Ceiling

Anyone looking for ideas for adjusting to our new reality could do worse than watch this ten minute video, about a single mom who for $4,000 converted a cargo container into a home for herself and her daughter:

http://videosift.com/video/Shipping-Container-Home-for-4K-single-mom-makes-it-happen

This is the kind of resourcefulness we will need.

And how about Sandusky, walking around free in Penn., giving interviews? Another indication how pathetic we have become?

I think if it was one of my blood relatives he had molested I would have to invoke rule .357 (from the Marlin Book of Etiquette)

--WSP7

US refinery shutdown, many to lose jobs for Christmas, see:

Free $3 Gasoline?

When Obama was first elected in November 2008, I had an expectation that we'd see some "hope and change." Now three years later, I have no hope, and the only thing that's changed are the faces. We used to joke that Obama was turning into "Bush-lite." Today, that almost seems quaint. Any time now, I'm expecting Obama to start talking with a Texas drawl, buy a dude ranch, and spend his frequent month-long vacations "clearing brush."

Is this what happens to idealistic-sounding candidates when they finally get elected? Do they get bit by a vampire-squid and turn into Wall Street banksters?

Sad.

JHK wrote:

"people who prefer reality over reality-TV, people with a taste for meaning in life, which often requires the recognition that some things are true and some not so true"

I know a few such people, but only a blessed few. The rest of my fellow citizens seem too obsessed by the tiny boxes they peck away at, often while walking or driving.

At best there is a hazy anger at the morons in Congress, and there's a feeling that we are expendable chumps to the wealthiest of the wealthy and the politicos they own.

Instead of rioting or starting an actual Reform party, my fellow citizens peck on our smart phones, check Facebook, and hope that the good times will return.

And guess what? They won't. As soon as Europe implodes, it's over and done. Stick a fork in it, or whatever metaphor you want.

"Miss Stewart?
Leona? [Heck Ms Helmsly owned the Empire State Building and was Jewish]."

HUH? :?

Having some trouble with my Stihl saws, based on the ethanol content of the gas. Small engines suffer more than big ones, but the Eth will crystalize in the lines and filters, precipitating out in storage.

Get some no-eth gasoline or empty your saw and run some "Moto-Mix" from Stihl in it before you store it, even for a short time.

I run my saws every weekend, in winter. So be prepared (and practice with an axe and bow-saw, too, lads).

Ready for winter?
Ummm, I don't imagine I'm ever ready enough.
Definitely enough wood; so we'll stay warm.
Still doing road work (damnit), but hopefully will have it sussed out before the deep snows.

(Always been a fan of rule .357. Recidivism is nil after that rule has been invoked.)

Stay loose and squirrely!

"Did Iran shoot at us and capture a drone? I missed it. Sorry, please post a link so I can get the shotshells out of the barn! ;o)"

Just look up Google Nooze, its all there.
Along with the special forces inside Iran killing people & blowing things up in prep for the attack.
But I think the plan is to first deal with Syria, then Iran next year sometime.

:O

James says:

The clowns and villains who run America have accomplished something really epic: they have vanquished meaning. Nobody knows what anything means anymore. Anything goes now. All bets are off. It's not reassuring. It leads to bad things happening......

http://macrobusiness.com.au/2011/05/overruled/


Your BEST writing this year.

Anger becomes you. And Fuck America, especially politicians who play Golf while the citizes suffer.

America - Doomed Land of hopeless innumerate imbeciles worried about shit that doesn't matter (sports, dancing, sluts - Hey Lindsay LOHANS BAAACK..)that they cannot control while the house, family and future goes AWOL.

Time to thin the herd. Blood in US Streets next up. OWS will sem like Romper Room and Miss Nancy will be wearing kevlar riot gear and assaulting and maybe even killing innocent US civilians.

Maybe the Goldman Gang can come up with a derivative on human scalps and fresh warm blood.

Keep up the angry pissed-off rants.

Poetry.

I think all on this site who both read and post can agree on the last paragraph. Well said.

Even us white devil cracker nazi skinhead oppressors of all the hapless peaceful colored folk are tired of the "Old System", let it die.

I have my old Jonsered too. But last year I bought a 346 XP and that sucker rips it up and only weighs about 8 lbs. compared to the 12 pound beast. Either way, it sure beats playing on the internet. Except on Monday mornings at work of course.

Maybe Holder is preoccupied with the "Fast and Furious" (gunwalker) scandal. A "bit of a cock-up on the gun-tracking front" as Reginal Perrin might say.

I believe Sunoco premium is ethanol free. The ethanol also burns hotter in the small engines, and inflicts additional financial hardship on us commoners. Give Sta-Bil for the holidays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afHLXhON-g0

http://www.thrivemovement.com/

I seldom post links, but I watched this in full yesterday. I don't know.

So hard to keep the nose to the solar grindstone and sell sell sell, install install install anymore with such rapid thoughts of doom and gloom on the very near horizon. The family and few friends I speak with think I'm nuts for wanting a few month food supply. The 99% where I live here don't seem to subscribe to the coming issues, just facebook, beers and making fake money...

When you go to the bank and ask for a loan of say $50,000 ... they just type 50,000.00 into a computer screen. That is where money comes from.

CHEERS CLUSTERFUCKERS

Indeed, one of the more thoughtful and hopeful of these essays. I agree that we are well into a new dispensation and young people should look forward to it with anticipation. I'm not sure they are being adequately prepared for it, but there will be enough of them to take on the leadership that will be necessary. And, I don't believe that the answers are in privatizing life in some kind of survivalist mode. New leadership will follow the same paths as always - cooperating in groups that compete for power and, in the process, re-forming institutions for the new exigencies of meaning and need. These new institutions may follow the tenets of classical liberalism - hopefully - or perhaps the neo-liberalism (totalitarianism) of recent times. I wish I could live long enough to see some emerging results, but alas . . . .

"The Fed proves that the other branches of government believe that the legislative branch need not be consulted ... on ANYTHING."

Probably just an oversight, but, The Federal Reserve is NOT a "branch" of the Federal Government and they have NO reserves.

Nationalist Propaganda Radio has this buried on their "back page". It is an AP story titled "House Panel Votes To Subpoena Corzine On MF Global".


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=143046295


I guess NPR's "Planet Money" couldn't be bothered with it. They have more important things to cover.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/12/05/142634542/why-burn-doctors-hate-instant-soup

Typical example of why the role of the news media in our decline should never be underestimated.

"Any time now, I'm expecting Obama to start talking with a Texas drawl, buy a dude ranch, and spend his frequent month-long vacations "clearing brush."

Has he got his 200,000 acre retreat in Uraguay yet?

So Iran shot down and captured one of our drones. Big deal. The control functions are encrypted. So Iran might be able to repair and reverse engineer the drone that they captured and fly it, but the encryption key on the rest of our fleet will be changed so there is no way that Iran would be able to control the rest of the fleet.

The best they could hope for would be to jam the control systems and make the drones crash. Even that would be difficult, since spread spectrum is used, which is more immune to interference than conventional radio modulation techniques.

"Who in their right mind is buying these Euroshit bonds?"

That's why Europe's in trouble, nobody is buying those junk bonds.


The garbage that the US Treasury issues is still popular because it's the "least rancid half-eaten big mac in the dumpster". Even when nobody wants it anymore, the Federal Reserve will just buy up the toxic junk.

In Europe, on the other hand, Angela Merkel refuses to let the European Central Bank be the "toxic waste buyer of last resort".

Dear Jim, please get off Jon's back. He didn't do anything 'wrong'; just made some bad financial decisions. So what if he used depositor's money to buy junk. So what if he didn't get his Board's approval to buy junk. He's Jon Corzine, after all. He will suffer some adverse consequences however; but only if he misappropriated money from rich people, like his friend Bernie Madoff. If the money came from middle class folks, Jon has nothing to worry about.

Thanks to Ozone, Eleuthero, and a couple others for recommending different material to help improve my grasp on all these issues. The clips I've watched from the likes of Steve Keen, Chris Martenson, and a few other articles deliver a quality of rationality absent hyperbole which I really appreciate. I see things a lot more clearly, even radically differently than I did just two or three years ago. It's amazing how quickly one's worldview can change. I have to admit the level of embarrassment I've felt for only now becoming aware of this shit. But I recognize too that the embarrassment runs a distant second to the rage that's building within.

This Spring should be interesting.

Probably just an oversight, but, it's Paraguay where the Bush's purchased land over one of the world's largest fresh water aquifers.

Oh, and Paraguay has no extradition treaty. Bush fucked the country good... and he has a Plan B for TLE.

Excellent post James. I did wonder why MF Global was not getting much flak for its "temporarily mislaid" funds. But I was surprised to read that the munificence of the Fed had extended to my own dear mortgage provider, the Royal Bank of Scotland. Thanks to all you US readers for this. A very small portion of Edinburgh real estate now has your name on it!

Back in '84 a great poet was inspired to write the following words following the bold decision by the Philadelphia Police Department to drop an actual bomb from a helicopter on some citizens of the United States.

"The Roof, The Roof, The Roof is on fire. We don't need no water let the motherfucker burn. Burn motherfucker; burn"

I increasingly find myself reflecting on these profound words as I observe the state of our Western societies and consider their futures. "Burn motherfucker, Burn!" indeed.

"Bush fucked the country good... and he has a Plan B for TLE."

==================

Asoka, Bush didn't do it alone. He needed millions of people to vote for him ... twice. (including people on this very CFN blog).

And now Obama is continuing in Bush's footsteps and I believe you voted for Obama, right Asoka?

So, now it is time to stop voting for tweedledum or tweedledee, to stop voting for red or blue.

Now is the time to vote Green, because both of the major parties are corporate-owned.

http://www.jillstein.org/
Jill Stein for President, 2012

By insisting that baby boomers ( Corzine, Holder, and Dimon are all boomers) be held accountable for their actions and follow the rules, Jim's committed the ultimate heresy this morning,

When America realizes that no matter what they have done or been told that their comfy retirements are indeed gone; all that 'wealth' they thought they had accumulated never really existed, then OWS will become OA. Thank God we will have WWIII to distract us and save the economy. Phew!

"The problem with Democracy is that it attracts too many people with too much time on their hands"
-Will Rogers

Howdy Smokey Joe, I usually go to the local small airport and buy Aviation gasoline, Way better than the crap at the local service station. There's a term you don't hear much anymore. "Service Station" haha. It is a little expensive but I don't really burn much in the small engines and MC, I believe it is 103 octane, no ethanol, and it still has lead in it.My old stuff still needs leaded gas. And I have a bunch of old stuff!

CF you can also use bleach. It has to be plain and not scented. Clorox used to put a chart for this kind of use on their gallon bottles. It's not too much either. About a drop per gallon. Swimming pool chem's might also work. Especially for large amounts.

Time to stock up on ammo while it's affordable. If it's on sale buy it whether you need the caliber or not. Down the road it will be great for barter.

And I was just wondering if you are related to SierraFoxtrot ?

Stay Frosty

Something no one has said:

You could put Corzine, Dimon, and their friends in prison with 100 year sentences ... and it won't do a damn thing about the toxic paper that is choking the world economy. The damage has been done.

Nor would sending some CEOs to prison restore corporate morality. The duty of a CEO is to increase profits ... by any means necessary. If some laws have to be broken, then laws will be broken. If money has to be stolen, then money will be stolen.

If people have to be enslaved, they will be enslaved. If countries need to be bombed and invaded, if native peoples need to be eliminated through systematic genocide, if the environment needs to be destroyed, etc. ... whatever is necessary to make a profit.

If some CEOs go to prison, do you think that will stop the next CEOs in carrying out the profit imperative?

The CEOs will do what they have to do, or they will lose their jobs. It is the way capitalism has worked for hundreds of years now.

There is a political party that is not corporate-owned you can vote for: the Green Party.

http://www.jillstein.org
Jill Stein for President 2012

wait just a damn minute!!! how did you get a loan for $50,000??!! i couldn t get one for $500 if i tried! guess i shoulda asked for $5,000,000- that would sweeten the default points for the credit (broke)rs... sheesh...

Jon Corzine is too rich to go to jail. So far, he’s returned half the “missing” money. Where the other half is – doesn’t matter – he could withdraw the amount from his own personal accounts and cover the loss. He will never see a moment of jail time. Neither did Angelo Mozillo, who’s criminal activities were so blatant, he should be sitting right next to Bernie Madoff in jail but isn’t. He paid a fine (about 1/5 of his total annual compensation according to 60 Minutes) and didn’t even have to admit guilt. Mozillo paid a minor fine and probably has a written agreement that he can’t be investigated again. None of these Wall Street banksters have gone to jail and never will. Epidemic systematic worldwide financial corruption (not just here in the US or in Europe but everywhere). Probably less than a 100 guys control the world financial system, all of them 100% corrupt and none of them will be punished for it. And they know it too. They’ve bought off all the right people, the people who were supposed to protect us and now those same people are living in Mega-Mansions, justifying their own corruption with "Why not, everybody else does it."

The only good news is Herman Cain can now Blame Himself for the crashing and burning of his campaign. Apparently the Koch Brothers didn’t vet him at all before they sank hundreds of millions in that clueless joker. Maybe the Koch Brothers aren’t so very smart after all. Or maybe all of them, the Koch Brothers, the Wall Street Banksters, and the pedophile sports coaches who thought they were ABOVE THE LAW will have their comeuppance. But it won’t be from the GOP, the Democrats or the Attorney Generals (federal or state). It will be from us. If things get bad enough, it will happen and paper cash and gold bullion will be worthless. Remember what happened to the Nazi and their sympathizers after the war was over.

I'll take Melt Down....W W 3 might be too hard to control. The 1% don't want to fry their assets.

I think the WW3 shit is just wag the dog. Just to get your eye off the ball as they pull yet another financial swindle.

Maybe there is some cred to Ron Paul's call to AUDIT THE FED ?

ccm989 said: "...that clueless joker."

==============

Krugman seems to be channeling JHK, or JHK is channeling Krugman. Speaking of clueless jokers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/05/opinion/send-in-the-clueless.html?_r=1&hp
Send in the Clueless

I would gladly trade my age for the chance to take a different path. I would gladly have walked a different path should I have known the outcome. But still, the future holds the promise of high satisfaction for the few who are willing to work hard at what is sustainable.

I just recieved an email from a buddy of mine with a similar home in it. This one however was a double shiooing container model. It looked really cool hwen finished. I guess if your Township's building ordinances allow it then why not. Brem up around the north side and build a green house on the south and it will be toasty in the winter.

If you live in farm country you can find leaded Tractor Gas available. At least out here in Michigan.

That was me, CFT! Last week, I pointed out that now that the .01% are ripping off the .09%, they'll probably crack down, like they did with Bernie Madoff.

But the underlying problems will continue.

What do you want to bet that the Corzine scandal will be completely forgotten within three weeks? Something else will displace it, as happened with Eric Holder's "Fast and Furious", a truly repre-hensible act.

Obama reminds me of a bored teen-ager, a natural OWSer, who has no interest in grown up matters and constantly looks for vivid entertainment to distract him from unpleasant reality. Fortunately he has enough perks from Mama and Daddy Taxpayer to muddle through, with the added bonus of keeping MegaButt off his ass.

No one has ever been able to explain why Bush Two was so protective of Mexico. The explosion of "immigrants" began with him and he largely covered for them. Why? I don't believe the Bush family was part of the cartels, but why cover for and protect such a violent invasion? I kind of like George W., unlike most of the posters here, but I can't forgive him for the Patriot Act, which in the hands of Napolitano, has become a club to vanquish the citizenry.

Obama has no interest in protecting or ultimately saving the United States. Kind of like asking your teenage son to take out the trash. He drifts from entertainment to entertainment, stopping only to accept another ration of unearned praise. If that praise isn't forthcoming, beware the huge snit fit which will follow, plus multiple charges of racism.

I am really concerned about our future and CFN seems to have the clearest explanations. I would like a reason for Bush's protection of Mexico and I would really like an idea of when you think Obama might grow up sufficiently to do something useful. This assumes he actually has the vaunted, but unproven, intellect with which he is credited.

I fully understand what you are saying and do expect that under new management "the boomers" are going to be pushed towards the soylent green terminal much more so than "the greaters" are. The problem actually can be laid at the feet of those who are in the notch between the the boomers and their parents. Or, possibly, their big brothers and sisters....the high school graduating class of 1956 that went on to fear neither selective service nor deflation of their investments. And which also got a pretty good foothold before the ravages of a narrowly focused, generalization soaked botique social liberalism started to cost them much. For cheap, on the tails of genuine social progressivsm, having been hammered out by a generation that was essentially spent in doing so. Willing to pass the work along, naively thinking that the next shift that came on was actually going to be interested in what had made it work.

It might not be too bad an idea if before the Xers and millenials and now the newly labeled "losters" and whatever of the teen-30 notch get to thinkin' and come to some agreement that the boomers be simply rounded up for the glue factory that among that useless mass there just might remain those who are the only souls left who watched it all transpire. First, under the lingering shadows that were "The War" and the depression viewed with the eyes of a child, and then getting to see something ACTUALLY WORK. And then waerily slithering off, with the soul of skeptics turned agreeable if not somewhat mystified by seeing it all start all over again, to become slaves to debt in order to maintain a nominal reflection in sustinance of those who preceeded them immediately.

The brain cells that are holding the data that can be useful to the new doers are inside the weary skulls of those who never quite gave up on core progressivism. Never quite were able to square up Bill Clinton and his perfecting of Reagonomics with the genuine "liberalism" that they had seen actually stop a war or improve civil society.

You progressive boomer haters need to take a breath and form a search committee and go out and find some of those unicorns. And take a little closer look at the birthdates of those who you view as your orpessors. They are more sub-boomer than you presume. It will help the spokespeople of your generation from embarassing yourselves and making you so vulnerable to disingenious yet somehow effectual criticsm from the spawn of those '56ers, the Reagan babies. The row upon row of talking heads....they aren't boomers. We're used up for that sort of thing. None of us write anymore.

"Stuff" that when we hear it become not so much appaled at what has been said or insinuated, but rather, aghast at your inability to intelligently and effectively respond.

What good would an audit do?

Suppose an audit uncovers some theft ... that won't do a damn bit of good if no one will enforce laws against fraud and theft.

Ron Paul is a card-carrying member of the Republican Party, a life-long politician receiving government-paid health care, but Ron Paul voted against the Childrens' Health Insurance bill (Jan. 23, 2008, HR 3963) and voted against the GI Bill (May 15, 2008, HR 2642) and voted against the Medicare bill (June 24, 2008, HR 6331).

Ron Paul voted yes for Ron Paul's government health care plan, but he voted no for children and voted no for veterans and voted no for senior citizens.

Question du jour: why is Jon Corzine still at large?

Jon Stevens Corzine is a former CEO of Goldman Sachs and MF Global who made $400 million during the 1999 initial public offering of Goldman Sacks. He served as the 54th Governor of New Jersey from 2006 to 2010 and as a US Senator from New Jersey before that.

Why is Jon Corzine still at large? Hell, this guy is so well connected he could have sex with little boys and get away with it and your asking why? Why are you asking why?

The original Bank of Scotland, was suspected of having Jacobite sympathies. Consequently the Royal Bank of Scotland with strong Hanoverian and Whig ties was chartered in 1727. Archibald Campbell, Lord Ilay was its first governor.

The RBS obviously got bailed out for political reasons. Details of which if made public would no doubt cause the fall of western civilization. We all need to be movin on here.

Rhetorical questions aside this weeks piece is great.

'Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number -
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many - they are few.'
Shelley - The Mask of Anarchy

k-dog for President.


I will check that out. Thanks. Most of the farmland around here (NW PA.) however, is Amish owned. Them thar mules don't like the taste of that thar Ethanol.

Yay, asoka! No more tweedledum or tweedledee.

Vote Jill Stein!

http://www.jillstein.org/

Meanwhile, in South Africa, Democracy Now is covering the climate change talks that the US, once again, is obstructing.

While LA gets 100mph Santa Ana winds, in December!

And the northeast tries to dry out, while Texas burns.

We live in Dumbfuckistan.

For those that understand history; Eurasia isn't emerging, it's re-emerging.

Gore Vidal talked about the beginning of our debter nation in 86 and how it would then go down from there....as an American its just weird watching it happen so fast...

Eurasia is simply re-emerging...and, whomever runs Eurasia tends to run the world....

They did audit the Fed. That's how they found out about the $8 trillion bailout.

And Michael Hudson has pointed out multiple times since the audit that the fact that the ruling class can conjure up $8 trillion for the bankers, proves that all the talk about cutting Social Security and Medicare and tightening our belts to live without our means.....is bullshit.

They could just as easily conjure up enough money to provide for the needs of American citizens as they could for the bankers.

So all the generation bashing going on here is ridiculous, not just because Social Security is not a part of the Federal budget, since it is funded separately, but because money is conjured, not printed or mined, and can be used for good, as well as evil.

Solar Guy, Illegitimi non carborundum! (Don't let the bastards grind you down.)

I look forward to your posts every week. You are one of the few optimistic voices on CFN. And you are doing the Lord's work!

So, keep on installing those solar panels. Every little bit of energy we can capture from the sun means that much less we need to buy from dirty-coal companies (there is no "clean coal") or from Middle Eastern dictators.

KEEP DOING GOOD. SMILE. AND PUSH ON.

But I recognize too that the embarrassment runs a distant second to the rage that's building within.
==

I've been raging against the willfully ignorant fascists and fascist machine for over two years here. There were few here who understood my anger and what I was talking about. Wage was one of the first. Now this understanding is almost universal on CFN. There are still a few holdouts, like Q and PC, but on the whole most recognize that with a little research EVERYTHING that I've said can be easily verified.

Here here!

The subsidy to the fascist imperialist predators is unlimited and unending.

US = Imperialist Fascist Vatican/Roman Reich

I'm always bemused by how optimistic you are, Jim. I've rolled up my sleeves and we've been working on a sustainable lifestyle for several years, but I'd never in my wildest dreams call this an opportunity for anything except a slightly less long shot on survival. The vicious and the lucky will survive the coming collapse. I'm not the vicious type and while I've been damned lucky in many respects, I'm a skeptic as far as the future goes.

I've seen what happens in other countries when there's a meltdown, and it ain't pretty. What's ahead will eclipse other modern collapses by orders of magnitude.

But what the heck. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Pardon me, but what is that stuff at the fancy restaurants that Jon Corazine is hypothetically eating?

Corn pone and cabbage soup I understand, and in fact I chuckled at Jim's recent reference to it. I had something along those lines for lunch recently, but I'm stumped now by the food terminology. Actually both the corn and the cabbage were out of the garden, and the simple chow of handmade tortillas and vegetable soup with fresh herbs was of a quality that would demand big bucks at cutsey artisanal restaurants.

"...and he has a Plan B for TLE."

Thought it might be... but what of O's plan?

in the early 90's, i met an ex-cia op (trust the source) who said bush the first was bringing tons of coke in through his offshore oil rigs because the workers don t have to go through customs...and almost all of the rank and file were mexican...he still owns the rigs as far as i can tell...

Excellent video, thanks for the link.

Is there still an Attorney General in this country? Will somebody please follow Eric Holder down a hallway and see if he leaves a trail of sawdust on the floor.

To find out that Eric Holder is nothing more than a sawdust filled bag of rags posing as a scarecrow to frighten crows of bad behavior away would be an improvement.

I think somebody should stand next to him and see if they can here any air whistling into his ears to try and fill the vacuum in between.

At least sawdust is something of substance.

oh yeah- sorry, i ve discovered info recently, and my brain is more filled than usual with all of the extremely obscene shenanigans out there...btw, i ve been reading your archives; right on! like your style, keep it up- it s nice to 'hear' a resonant voice in the clamor...

He grew up in Hawaii didn't he?
Not a bad place to return to.

man, that s a great tip about the ammo- little late; i only just turned down several hundred rounds of .357 s and .38 s cuz i roll with the nines and didn t think i would need em...will keep the idea in front; thanks re sierra: nope

"There are heroes as-yet-sung-and-unsung in America, people who prefer reality over reality-TV, people with a taste for meaning in life, which often requires the recognition that some things are true and some not so true, and you're better off with what's true. What appears to be true is that the old order is finished and a new disposition of things is coming along. The Long Emergency will beat a path straight to the Great Re-set. Sign up for it. Roll up your sleeves. There is so much to do in this country. If you are young, especially, it's all waiting for you."

This is terrific, James. I am young at heart. I hope that counts, cause I'm in!

As regards: "...Only a desperate and hopelessly degenerate nation would choose to live this way, in a law-optional society, in which money means everything, and yet nobody even knows what money is (or where it goes, and what it does when it goes there.)"

Before leaving New York on December 5th, [1931 (80 years ago today)] [Meher] Baba wished to be driven around Wall Street, New York's financial district. It was a Saturday and the streets were virtually deserted. In the car, Jean Adriel was thinking to herself: "How ephemeral and unreal is this money madness!"

The next moment, pointing to the skyscrapers, Baba smiled at her and gestured, "It is all a bubble, so easy to prick!"

A friend of mine says "emerge and see." And keep in mind that the Lord works in mysterious ways.

What is your attachement to the Bush's? They are one of the old Protestant Families, Skull and Bonesmen both junior and senior. These people went Global generations ago and are traitors.

The Plan is to unite Canada, America, and Mexico into a common economy a la the European Union. Letting in millions of illegals is part of erasing the border. Later on South America and North America will be joined - as will Europe and Africa. The third economic zone is Asia. Australia is an Asian nation. To make this a reality, they are flooding the place with Chinese and Arabs. The final stage will be the Union of the Three Zones into a World Goverment. The fiction of individual nations will be maintained until this time and perhaps even after.

What? Don't you know that American Exceptionalism means we can do whatever the fuck we want to do with impunity?

even with the sc decision about wal-mart; couldn t We The People initiate a class-action lawsuit against eric holder? surely it has been established beyond the burden of proof that all of us have been harmed in the same, substantial fashion by his negligence in preferring charges against all of the investment thieves?!

Are you armed yet, Ront? Remember no can slay or be slain in Reality. It will be just part of the Play as written by the Playwrite. We must play our parts after all. Pacifists try to rewrite the Play, but they cannot. They play a minor role as per their understanding.

Remember Baba - and fight.

ront, have you been to the Bhopal Centre in India?

fuck! ok, Q-check: trade you my 'thieves' for metuseleh s 'here here'...

Does Wage support your ideas about Israel having the right to take over the whole West Bank? You lost the Communists when you did that, preppy. Your beanies are seriously askew. Better fix your propellers and get ready to lift off out of there.

$8 trillion --- $16 trillion.... pretty soon you're talking real money!

Hatred of the Church is the oldest and deepest American Prejudice. The early Americans were Calvinists who imagined themselves as the Chosen People. Crypto Jews so to speak. You are as wrong as wrong can be.

But this very imagining has kept some of them pure. The traditional Calvinists don't buy into the Christian Zionism and Jews as the Chosen People at all. God bless them.

Every week you make these sarcastic comments. Are you even paying attention to world news these days? The Euro is going down in flames right now. Unless the ECB does something drastic like open a window to buy an unlimited amount of bonds from troubled countries, it could very well break apart. The Economist has been running stories every week for months now about how the European GDP is shrinking and the banks there are choked with junk government bonds, which has the potential to bring down the entire banking system there (really), not to mention send the entire world into another Great Depression.

Trillions of dollars have been pumped into the world banking system over the last 3-4 years by the Fed and other central banks. And yet still the whole system seems to teeter on the edge, slouching from one catastrophe to another. This is like the patient on the operating table whose heart goes into defib and is being shocked with electricity to get them going again.

And somehow you think the world economic system is robust and will "carry on" no matter what. Get real. We are teetering on the brink of some pretty awful events.

Do these epic problems mean that civilization will suddenly collapse and we will all have our own reenactment of The Road? No, but sticking your head in the sand like Chicken Little does not mean you are somehow wiser or more informed than people who actually know what's going on right now.

In other words, get a clue, asoka! :)

Anyways, Happy Monday to ya.

The world financial system is like some kind of Never Never Land. Do you guys know what QE entails? The Federal Reserve deposits trillions in the reserve accounts of its member banks. In other words, free money for nothing for the Too Big to Fail banks.

Neat huh?

All religion is bunk.

Loser, if you're going to plagiarize every sentence you write, the least you can do is give them people some credit.

Yeah he'll do alright. It's no place for Whites: lots of discrimination and assults. We should cede Hawaii to Japan. They have the moral courage to keep the Polynesian Thugs in line and protect White Lives and Property.

Jews as the Chosen People
==

And? Are you jealous?

You want to be God's chosen people, is that it?

You are right on the crux of it - dead on center. As Solzhenitsyn said, hatred of God is the very essence of Communism - more fundamental than all their economic or political pretensions.

We already are.

Pacifists try to rewrite the Play, but they cannot.

==============

Except when they can.

1980–1989 – The Solidarity movement
1987–1989 – The Singing Revolution – Baltic states (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia)
1989 – The Peaceful Revolution in the German Democratic Republic leading to the fall of the Berlin Wall
1989 – The Velvet Revolution – the bloodless revolution in Czechoslovakia
1989 – The bloodless revolution in Bulgaria that resulted in the downfall of the communist government.
1974 – The Carnation Revolution in Portugal.
1979 – The Iranian Revolution in Iran.
1986 – The People Power (Yellow) Revolution in the Philippines
2000 – The Bulldozer Revolution, which led to the overthrow of Slobodan Milošević. These demonstrations are considered by many to be the first example of the peaceful revolutions that followed in Georgia and Ukraine
2003 – The Rose Revolution in Georgia
2004 – The Orange Revolution in Ukraine
2005 - The Cedar Revolution in Lebanon
2011 - Arab Spring (Tunisia and Egypt) "Social Media Revolutions

Asoka - how do you stand on my proposal to cede Hawaii to Japan?

LOL! So what's the problem? Why are you so afraid of everyone?

In other words, free money for nothing for the Too Big to Fail banks. Neat huh?

--------------------

Really neat. (I assume you are being sarcastic.)

Tell me, what does the alternative look like? Can you tell me what would happen if QE did not happen?

Firstly, I'm not against peaceful change when possible. I merely state that it's not always possible and that good men have the right to resist evil by force.

Secondly, evil can be done "peacefully" as well. Many of those that you list were Soros actions; efforts to expand to NWO at the expense of free peoples.

As Krisnamurti said, Gandhi was an extremely violent man. His methods were relatively peaceful but his mind was devoid of peace. Not completely of course - he is said to have died with the name of Ram on his lips. The point is that pacifism is often ineffective even when motivated by good and that violence is not evil in and of itself. It's the intent that makes it so. A knife can kill or cure - remember the surgeon's scapel.

don t forget the women in liberia: wasn t bloodless by any means, but it was mostly that of the unarmed women & children...

Quite the contradictory poast there, BTB:

"The reason I'm on this blog is not to listen to complaints ... but to learn about possible solutions."

Yet, when it comes to Q's incessant complaints about spelling, you are perfectly satisfied?

"Regarding Q's corrections, I have to take his side on this. ... it points out by example the sorry mental state of our society."

I see Q's whinging as nothing but self-anointed chest-thumping. I'm certainly not seeing any resultant solutions, whatsoever.

Be that as it may, I just wanted to discuss with everyone my latest day-trading tactics, that have netted me $5k/week for the past 8 weeks, with little to no risk, and little to no overhead!!! Who cares that the market is now a fraudulent system, manipulated by volumetric millisecond trades, derivatives, (naked) short/long margin gambling, excessive leveraging, "ETF" commodities (LOL oxymoron), collateralized debt (another oxymoron?) and completely unbacked default insurance/swaps? Get yours while you can!!!

What are you talking about? It's natural to want to end tyranny or escape from thuggery. It's well known in America that large parts of Hawaii are no longer safe for Whites - just like large parts of our big cities. Whites have never been the majority there and the Japanese have been numerous there for a long time. And they are not hated by the Indigenes as Whites are. And they are a "law and order" bunch to the nth degree. They Would establish order and peace for everyone.

It's thinking outside the box - but isn't that what we have to do now? What has been lacking for so long? The Japanese have a bad colonial history but they may have turned over a new leaf. They might jump at the chance to show it.

Which of Eric Holder's posses should be mobilized to take down Corzine?

Antitrust Division Asset Forfeiture Program Office of the Attorney General Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Bureau of Justice Assistance Bureau of Justice Statistics Civil Division Civil Rights Division Community Capacity Development Office Community Oriented Policing Services Community Relations Service Criminal Division Diversion Control Program Drug Enforcement Administration Environment and Natural Resources Division Executive Office for Immigration Review Executive Office for Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Forces Executive Office for U.S. Attorneys Executive Office for U.S. Trustees Federal Bureau of Investigation Federal Bureau of Prisons Foreign Claims Settlement Commission of the U.S. INTERPOL (U.S. National Central Bureau) Justice Management Division National Criminal Justice Reference Service National Drug Intelligence Center National Institute of Corrections National Institute of Justice National Security Division Office of the Associate Attorney General Office of Attorney Recruitment & Management Office of the Chief Information Officer Office of the Deputy Attorney General Office of Dispute Resolution Office of the Federal Detention Trustee Office of Information Policy Office of the Inspector General Office of the Intergovernmental and Public Liaison Office of Justice Programs Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention Office of Legal Counsel Office of Legal Policy Office of Legislative Affairs Office of the Pardon Attorney Office of Privacy and Civil Liberties Office of Professional Responsibility Office of Public Affairs Office of Sex Offender Sentencing, Monitoring, Apprehending, Registering, and Tracking Office of the Solicitor General Office of Special Counsel Office of Tribal Justice Office for Victims of Crime Office on Violence Against Women Professional Responsibility Advisory Office Tax Division U.S. Attorneys U.S. Marshals Service U.S. Parole Commission U.S. Trustee Program

These are all DOJ Agencies. Geez... I wonder if any of these agencies are under threat of budget cuts by the "No Big Gov" parties. Nah.

Reminds me of that old saw: if gov. agencies solved the problems they were created to address, they'd be out of work...

Well, thanks for relating, but I'm far, far beyond the type of ethnocentric anger you advocate. When I talk about a rage building within, my tendency toward introspection kicks in and I realize it's just a bit of sadness that I'm really feeling. But with any emotion, such things need to be apart of a larger process of acquiring experience to better deal with reality.

I'll leave the racial grudges to the impotent proles who like to ejaculate their grievances onto other CFNers, who in turn don't hesitate to rush over to fellow complaining dickheads with towels to sop up their messy gripes in a unity of the mundane.

You and VK can carry on now.

Asoka - how do you stand on my proposal to cede Hawaii to Japan?

-----------------------

I am with the one-world government crowd. I want unity, federation, cooperation, not secession and isolation. I like big government.

All the successful governments, like the Scandanavian democratic socialist countries, provide people with education, health care, etc. through high taxation and high regulation. More taxes, more regulation, that is the key to avoid the tax cuts, elimination of Depts. of Education, Commerce, and Energy and the resulting anarchy the conservatives/libertarians want to have so they can be "free"

Ne Vincent said "And you're a Louis Vuitton spammer. Wow, are you ever in the wrong place to be promoting crass commercialism and mass consumption!"

Won't it be lovely when the descendants of Watson are able to create spam posts so opaquely realistic it will be impossible to tell whether they are a real person or not.

More Anti-White news: They're making a new Conan the Barbarian movie: he will be a mulit-racial Polyneisan type this time. He's White in Robert E Howard's books.

Even worse: they making a new "Red Dawn" movie - with lots of non White patriots. Clearly all White Cultural Icons are to be trashed by the Hollywood gang.

Impotent proles? Wow are you ever in for a wake up call on the "Day". Meet up with some of your Black Brothers and you'll find out how impotent they are.

Don't underestimate people. Everyone has a bit of power - even now never mind then. Even you.

Seems to me that you live in constant fear. By your own account you're not safe anywhere. It's time your God gathered you chosen few and took you where you might be safe. Perhaps a Chinese plantation on the island of Madagascar. I understand this is written in one of your sacred Vatican redacted scripts yet to be publicized. It's perfect. A prophecy come true.

Your time is coming. Nixon was asked what he thought the long term prospects for Israel were. He just shook his head and gave a thumbs down. You fucked up. You could have had the whole, huge island of Madagascar. But your egos were too big and you had to have the Holy Land - which doesn't belong to you anymore. You have destroyed countless Palestinian Villages and killed countless Palestinians, both Muslim and Christian. Surely you don't think you're going to get away with it?

You must accept the right of return and surrender yourselves to the tender mercies of the practicioners of the Religion of Peace. I'm sure it will all work out fine! Just ask Asoka.

I'll leave the racial grudges to the impotent proles who like to ejaculate their grievances onto other CFNers
==

That's a beautiful sentence there, Absalom. It will not be long before your passive-aggressiveness evolves into something more useful than passive spectatorship. I know this, because I perfectly understand human nature.

And we continue to pour money into highways so that megacorporations can build more fast food outlets and gas stations at each offramp to bring minimum wage employment to rural youth. All the while trashing Amtrak for being inefficient and a burden on taxpayers.

As JHK says, its time to get busy building a new society. OWS is not a bad place to start.

Mika, Vlad does not have to choose a location on Planet Earth. Here in the southwest we have a spaceport.

http://www.spaceportamerica.com/about-us/spaceport-america.html

There may be other places to look into.

Perhaps the question to Nixon should have been what he thought was the long term prospects for Nixon. Anyway, that question is already answered. Point being, we're still around. Others who were our contemporaries thousands of years ago are long gone. And we'll still be around long after the US empire is done and gone.

I highly doubt Vlad could pass the Physical.

"It will not be long before your passive-aggressiveness evolves into something more useful than passive spectatorship. I know this, because I perfectly understand human nature."
=================================================

Alright, expert. I'll bite. What do you mean by something more useful?

By the way. You're callin' me passive aggressive meteuselah/mika. Get a life.

Interesting and trenchant commentary as usual, but Rome was not destroyed in a day.

Jailed:
Martha Stewart
Leona Helmsly

And we'll still be around long after the US empire is done and gone.

============

Mika, the USA empire will fall and die, like previous empires have. You don't need to rage so much, IMHO.

Inertia (to change) will be overcome by the momentum of its victims' blowback. Collapse is inevitable, with or without our efforts.

"You could put Corzine, Dimon, and their friends in prison with 100 year sentences ... and it won't do a damn thing about the toxic paper that is choking the world economy. The damage has been done."

LOL, you Obama apologist! Let's just focus on the future; anything that has already occurred cannot be changed! It's not as if punishment for that crime would provide an incentive against committing that crime in the future...

Your weak-@$$ argument above is like saying we shouldn't hold rapists or murderers accountable for their crimes, as their victims cannot be unraped or raised from the dead. The damage has been done.

Ahh, I get it - you're on with that sarcasm/irony flip-flop bit again. Workin' both sides of the argument, liek the true master-debater!!!

What do you mean by something more useful?
==

It means that soon you'll be parroting EVERYTHING that I've been saying, and maybe you'll even act on it.

True. But every reaction needs a catalyst. I'm that catalyst.

HA HA HA HA.

You're insane dude.

Take care

It is pretty neat, if you work for a mega-bank.

What is the alternative? There are plenty. Why has giving free money to private banks become the only way to handle our financial difficulties? Are you for the public purse supporting the schemes of banks who have already proven themselves reckless and irresponsible? Isn't this like giving 100k to your teenage son who just wrecked your Ferrari?

There was a whole menu of options deployed back in the S&L days like breaking apart institutions. But the easy way out is simply keystroking in a couple billion into a bank's Fed Reserve account. The GS alumni now running the Fed and the Treasury Department like that option the best, too.

Congress could hold impeachment proceedings against Attorney General Holder for high crimes and misdemeanors. I would imagine that would take quite a few letters to congress and a lot of time we don't have. Beyond this Obama could fire him. Since that won't happen the only way is to fire Obama. Electing someone who will fire him is the only way.

Like k-dog for instance. I'll do it while I'm reaching for the phone to close Guantanamo, first day in.

Yes, that was the reaction two years back. Now, practically everyone sees exactly what I see.

What about the bill that passed 93-7?
Alex Jones was on C2C last nite .....any comments?

The reason none of the Wallstreet grifters has been arrested is that the New York police department is facing a serious shortage of handcuffs. Apparently they were all used up hauling away OWS protesters. So if you can afford it, please donate to the HFB (handcuffs for bankers) charitable fund : http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

Looks like todays discussion is, once again, spinning out of control.

Keep raising people's awareness. It's not long before a critical mass of people will be reached, and then it's game over for these fsckers.

How anyone thinks anymore that all this mess that we are in can be fixed are operating on only a couple of cylinders. It is a no go no matter what they say or tell you. They are just hoping to get theirs while the getting is still good and be able to disappear. We have entered another universe one of the many multiverses the mechanics talk about and it is going to be so different that none of us can imagine it. I am not saying worse I am saying different. One cannot plan their way out of evolution. Evolution happens when no one is looking.

And if that One World Goverment goes bad - what recourse does anyone have then? No limitation in size - and the checks and balances that come from that - are the very essence of sane goverment.

"No one has ever been able to explain why Bush Two was so protective of Mexico. The explosion of "immigrants" began with him and he largely covered for them. Why? I don't believe the Bush family was part of the cartels, but why cover for and protect such a violent invasion?"

Oh please - the Mexican immigrants are not a violent invasion, unless you find picking crops/doing yardwork violent and invasive. Is this something FOX news continues to hype now that Hussein is in office?

"I kind of like George W."

And I'm not surprised. Sometimes I think your name should really be JulettaOfTejas, but then, I guess the teabaggers did do some damage in Ohio/Wisconsin/Michigan/Indiana/etc...

The Egyptians are still around. As are the Persians. They aren't the same people and culture? Neither are the Jews. Ancient Jews didn't have the Talmud and weren't Pharisees. Nor did they have Mongolian eyes or big New York noses.

Sure Jews will probably still be around for a long time. But Israel? Get a life - and get a passport while you're at it.

What exactly makes you the expert on who should live where, Vladistan?

To quote from one my favorite movies, "That's just like, your opinion, man."

Seriously though, why don't you get specific? You "think" Obama is like a teenager. Okay then. I think you're just another American airhead who makes things up based on second hand information from cable television.

As it is, you just barfed out a bunch of ad hominem attacks I could just as well hear on an episode of Hannity and Friends.

No, Vlad. Those peoples no longer exist. What made them what they are is no longer there. It's no longer there in terms of language and culture and it's no longer there in terms of genetics.

As for your Talmud and Pharisees, I completely reject both. As do the vast vast vast majority of Jews. Our national identity is our tribal connection to our ancient land our ancient language our ancient culture our ancient history. That was always the case. That will always be the case.

"I kind of like George W."

I kind of think you're a clueless moron.

Why are you bothering to argue with this Vlad character, anyways? The best strategy is not to play or just deride him and his ridiculous race baiting with disparaging one-liners. It isn't worth the time to write out detailed replies to his idiocy. In his own mind, he's some kind of genius of history and race politics, so you're never going to get through to him.

Thanks for the link, lbendet.

I'm only half way through, but I already used the exponential water thing on my radio show this morning.

Good stuff.

I believe that this was the same person who thought that farm fields were "blown up" earlier this year, and expressed anger that the government chose a bunch of, (and I believe that she used the word) "niggers" over corn.

Because she thinks that the US has too many African-Americans, and doesn't grow enough corn, apparently.

This was back during the floods in April, when I was dealing with the people who had to evacuate their homes due to flooding. The reason I remember is because she pushed me over the edge that time.

Hey JullettaofOhio welcome back ... not a frequent poster but one of my favorites ... I'm always interested in what you have to say!

I would just offer, in regard to President Bush & Mexican immigration, that any Governor of Texas would have to show an unusual sensitivity for the concerns of the Govt. of Mexico and its emigrants to El Norte. The border is so long, Mexico so close. And of course there's the whole history going back to the Texas Republic and the Mexican War 1846-1848. Gov. Perry is the same way.

--WSP7

Bush, huh? Let us count the ways.

Launched a completely optional war against Iraq that turned into a botch job. This war, BTW, was based on falsified intelligence decided on for "administration reasons," e.g. the infamous WMDs.

Got the US stuck in the Afghanistan quagmire for ten years.

Cut taxes massively for the rich while we were in the midst of said wars, thus destroying any semblance of fiscal responsibility left in the US budget.

Helped pass the Medicare part D prescription drug plan, an unfunded mandate costing the governemtn hundreds of billions.

Had his lawyers write up justifications for torture and illegal wiretapping.

Oversaw financial and corporate deregulation that lead to many scandals and catastrophes, such as Enron, the financial crisis, etc.

His grammar and speaking abilities were so notoriously aweful that the term "Bushism" was coined to describe his verbal gaffes.

His administration outed a CIA agent all because her husband had the balls to, you know, tell the truth.

And on and on.

And you "kind of like" this guy? LOL. There is no hope for you!

I don't want him to ever have the excuse of saying that he didn't know. He does know. The more he continues with his tact, the more he knows; the deeper the eternal grave he digs for himself.

He's picked the Jews as his whipping boy, like a good little crypto-Nazi. It makes him feel superior to identify some group that is supposedly responsible for the world's problems and the miserable nature of his existence. The Jewish NWO is keeping him down, doncha know?

I wouldn't feed the fire, if I were you, even inadvertently.

"ront, have you been to the Bhopal Centre in India?"

No, Asoka, what is and what's happening at the Bhopal Centre?

Sorry, I'd rather he'd drown in blue waters rather than brown waters.

Forgive me, ront. I thought perhaps you had had the privilege of going to the Avatar Meher Baba Bhopal Centre in India.

http://bit.ly/vgHA7a

Perhaps I am mistakenly assuming you have an association with Meher Baba. I attended some meetings of the Seattle Meher Baba group in 1969.

"As JHK says, its time to get busy building a new society. OWS is not a bad place to start."

Is there any doubt that certain politicians/power brokers would love nothing better than to declare OWS a terrorist organization? And detain indefinitely some of its participants without trial?

The calender reads as December but the truly chilling has yet to arrive.

Vlad,

You, Mika, and Metuselah are one. Certainly not the Holy Trinity, but a trinity all the same. The three are one and the one is three.

Get back on your meds and please stop talking to yourselves.

CR

Buck Stud,
I understand OWS is too decentralized to attack in that way, though there are rumors that DHS may have helped coordinate the attacks on various OWS encampments.

Bottom line, you cannot destroy an idea whose time has come. I am sure there are those who try, of course.

As to the U of I discussion last week, I do have to admit I made the following assumption. If you payed tuition, that you'd at least attend the 16 hours worth of class lectures each week, that you'd spend at least 1-2 hours a day studying the material/doing homework, and that you'd show up to take all the exams/finals.

I did know a couple of guys who rarely/never went to lectures, and only showed up for exams/finals. They were exceptional leeches, getting homework/lecture notes from "friends" in those classes (some from frat house archives). They'd only study during the "all nighter" session prior to exams/finals. They tended to do alright, pulling B's in the prerequisite classes, but getting hammered with C/D's in 400-level degree-specific courses.

When I went to U of I in the late 80's, it was $1.6k a semester for in-state tuition and fees ($3.2k/year, not including books/room/board). Back then, you could get into all the campus bars at age 18, and once you were in the doors they'd serve you (drinking age was 21 for IL state). Needless to say, pretty much every night was spent with friends going out to the campus bars ("frat" bars were crowded and served cheap drinks). I should have avoided that scene, saved some time/money, and tripled my study time to 3-6 hours/day - but if I had to do it all over again, I don't think I'd change it...

I knew a couple other guys that flunked out, due to spending all their time playing pool at the union and in the campus bars. I'm guessing the bar scene is a lot different/nonexistent now. I'm also guessing those annual street party keg-fests and the annual pot party in the quad no longer happen. And *WoW*, the annual in-state tuition/fees are $14-19k this year!!! I'll bet the average starting salary for a BS in engineering has barely gone up from the ~$35k back in 1989 (wiki suggests ~$50k now - certainly not the 5-fold U of I residential tuition/fees increase)...

As Bilbo said, a road is a dangerous thing. You never know where it's going to take you. Feminist and Liberal sites are always watched carefully and vigilant about what can and cannot be said. Offenders are banned - the one strike rule typically. You might feel more comfortable at ones of these Anti-American/Western Civilization type blogs.

Well, of course, the point I was making was that even though he did all the "wrong things", according to the dominant paradigm, it worked out better for him than for those who followed the party line.

I'm not quite sure why you got so upset. Are you still paying on college loans?

At the time, I didn't realize that my children's generation was being attacked by the bankers, and the best and brightest were targeted for perpetual debt slavery.

That seems to evil, even for them.

And yet...

Personally, I was hoping that the next bubble would be in green technology, as a writer in Harper's magazine proposed in 2006, or so. He noted that the dot com bubble was immediately followed by the housing bubble, which was due to pop, and advised that turning to a green future would be a great way in inflate the next bubble.

Nope, they went after the kids instead.

Lbendet was right. I am quoting Max Keiser when I talk about financial rape. And he calls for beheading bankers, also.

I am against capital punishment, but the idea is still appealing. Look at the harm and human misery they've caused.

I am quite sanguine about my son, and his choices. Perhaps you should also take a broader look.

Correction: It seems too evil, even for them.

Also, you seemed personally aggrieved that he got a job, which I found uncharitable.

He also has been promoted three times in two years, which I ascribe to his brilliance and ability, although it could just as equally be his good looks and charm.

Who knows?

I think that it was also Max Keiser who pointed out that people who invested with Jon Corzine probably knew he was a crook, but assumed that they would also benefit from his ill-gotten gains, due to his prominence.

As I always say, there is no honor among thieves.

This springboards off your "pay for sterilization" idea Wage, that several CFN posters have said they would support.

Project Prevention only pays drug addicts - but you've got to start somewhere.

http://www.projectprevention.org/

That joke is a little old and you are alot boring. Is this all you have to say? It is because all you Liberals tend to believe exactly the same thing. No wonder since you watch the same shows and get programmed by the same people.

Dear President K-Dog,

Just a little request: Hire Senator Elizabeth Warren for the job of special prosecutor to bring to justice the hordes of government and business thieves. Failing that, maybe your former competitor, Jill Stein.

And immediately after shutting down Guantamano, declare victory in the war against drugs, and legalize them.

I know I heard that quote in some movie, but for the life of me, I just can't remember which one - although it does sound BigLebowskiish. Please do tell.

Right on, Mika!

Wage said:

my children's generation was being attacked by the bankers, and the best and brightest were targeted for perpetual debt slavery.

In a civilized country education is provided. For example, in Denmark you can go from kindergarten to your PhD and it is all government-paid.

Even in Central America, in Costa Rica, you can go from kindergarten to PhD for very little money. The University of Costa Rica, the nation’s best public university, charges less than three thousand dollars ($3,000) a year for tuition and fees. Those tuition costs are per year, not per semester.

Jews are not the same people genetically or culturally either. Language Ok, more or less. The revival of Hebrew was an quite an accomplishment.

But your Judaism is dying: you all are a Western People and aren't having babies either. The future of Judaism belongs to the Orthodox.

So you better get busy with those Black Jew girls if you want to have a future. Liberal Women are selfish sluts, be they Jew or Gentile. Maybe the Falasha girls aren't corrupted yet...And the offspring will be even farther away from historical Judaism genetically - but you don't know that....

ever consider that maybe gitmo has more prisoners than we know about? like maybe the disappeared? and that ourbama fully believed he could close it until he was sworn in and made privy to "state secrets" and nat l security issues? what have we been told since? a very quiet "it s complicated"...i know y all don t like conspiracy theorists, but what happened to the passengers who showed up on the flight logs at a nasa installation? that ditch full of scrap metal and the round hole opposite rummy s office were made by no airplanes...

Vlad, you are like a cross between Joan Rivers and Pat Buchannan, and boy is your shtick getting old. We get it, okay? You don't like the Jews. Stop telling us over and over and over again.

Wow, when I graduated college - sometime around when Barney Rubble graduated HS - a typical BS in EE got around $7-8000/yr. starting salary. Talk about destruction of the dollar. Couldn't compare to my HS job of wiping cars in a car wash for $1.05/hr.

You're a man after my own heart, Turk. I loved that movie, too. BTW, I just saw "Hugo" and I would recommend seeing it - an excellent movie.

"I'm not quite sure why you got so upset. Are you still paying on college loans?"

I wasn't upset, more like shocked. I found that I had to do a lot of study/homework for my first 3-6 months on the job. These requirements were in line with most college courses I took. From what I can tell, scholarships at U of I only cover up to about 50% of the total tuition/fees. So, to make an investment like that (plus books/room/board), then piss it away in a semester, seems like a waste of a lot of time and money to me. And it illustrates a general lack of responsibility (concern?), that seems too common with the texting kiddies these daze...

I am pretty upset to find out that ~20 years later, the average starting salary for a BS engineering degree has only increased ~40% - yet the cost of the same-exact degree has increased ~400-500%. And, as we all know, student debt can no longer be resolved through bankruptcy, since ~2005. Finally, the vast majority of these jobs will likely go to the minority immigrants (who tend to be the very best of the best from their billion-person homelands [China/India]).

And no, I don't have any student loans to pay off. I worked as a busboy and banquet waiter for 3 years during high school, and I did a 2-year coop during college (alternating semesters, $9-12/hour, in Washington, DC - total joke wage, I earned more as a busboy years earlier) to pay my expenses. I did owe my parents ~$6k when I graduated from college, but payed that back within 2 years with a serious bonus (Dad told me to stop sending him money, LOL).

I absolutely believe that the work ethic/self-sufficiency has a huge impact on building character and success. Parents that have tuition funds for their children, buy them cars, pay all their expenses, and cater to their every whim, result in children that will go no where, but into their parent's basements for another 2 decades after high school graduation. (That paragraph needs work, LOL!)

"Personally, I was hoping that the next bubble would be in green technology"

I've been betting on the tuition bubble pop for a while, and have poasted so for a while here. Just not sure if it will come before it all falls off the *cliff*...

As to the kids, they were sold down the river a long time ago. Take a look outside - the resources (forests/water/land) have been exponentially plundered, what remains has been exponentially polluted with toxic heavy metals/radiation/carcinogenic hydrocarbons, each US child is born into an indentured tax-burden servitude of at least $50k (more like $500k, but who's *counting*), ad-nauseum - not a single one of us gave a damn if anything would be left for them when we are gone... May as well leverage them to the hilt now, ala student "collateralized debt" (sardonic indeed - Spirit: Dr Sardonicus!)

"There is much to suggest that most immigrants already among us would support reductions in immigration numbers. The reasons are not surprising. Virtually any reduction designed to help native-born Americans would be even more beneficial to foreign-born Americans. That is why so many immigrants are supporters of NumbersUSA.com.

Perhaps the greatest "immigrant bashers" are those Members of Congress who refuse to look at the abysmal conditions of so many immigrant Americans and who every year insist on adding more than a million more immigrants into their occupations, schools and communities."
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/about-us/no-immigrant-bashing/no-immigrant-bashing.html

The people who are here are here.
Even the illegals deserve a chance at legality.
But, we've got to stop the growth in US population, first. Since almost 2.5 million US residents die every year - that should not be that hard to accomplish.

The real Semites are basically the Arabs now - and a small number of other minorities: Assyrians, Chaldeans, and the "Oriental Jews". Are you an Oriental Jew? No? So?

Some of the Celts once lived in Asia Minor. So should the Irish Americans use Catholicism as a unifying principle and and ask other Catholics to join them in a Crusade to take back Asia Minor for Irish Catholic Celts? No? So?

I'm just making too much sense as usual and that makes you liberal "thinkers" uncomfortable.

Do you really support what the Jews did/do to the Palestinians? So much for your ideals, clown.

"The Plan is to unite Canada, America, and Mexico into a common economy a la the European Union. Letting in millions of illegals is part of erasing the border. Later on South America and North America will be joined -"
HA-HA-HA.... Like that will ever happen. So Am has NO interest in 'joining' NA.

And Vlad, you just gotta get out of the trailer park once in awhile. Have you ever been to Hawaii? They like the Japanese money, but they would actually have someone like you "ruling" them vs the Japanese. Of course, if they had the choice, they'd kick out all the hauolies.
Where do you get your info? The Wite History channel? Wite Pwr!
:)

What makes me uncomfortable (more like annoyed) is having to scroll past your inane posts every week.

Anyways, no, I don't really support what happened to the Palestinians with the founding of Israel, but then again, it wasn't the worst thing that ever happened in terms of genocide or ethnic cleansing. The history of nations and peoples is a pretty brutal succession of might makes right events. The situation with Israel is really not any different from hundreds of other conflicts throughout history, especially in that region of the world.

So funny (sad really) that you can write off the Holocaust as being an invention, even though it was the worst genocide of all time, and then you have endless compassion for the poor Palestinians, only a comparably tiny fraction of whom have been killed by the Israelis. (If they had been completely wiped out and/or displaced, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, but the Jews were actually nice enough not to kill all of them.) I never thought of you as a humanitarian, or if you are one, you're not very consistent.

The way I see it is that the Jews fought 3 or 4 wars to grab that territory from 1947 through the seventies. The Arabs lost, you know, fair and square (so to speak). They can't get over it, because of religious differences, as far as I can tell. That's pretty funny they are so sore about it considering that Islam is a religion of conquest, and they think they're entitled to all their lands that were conquered by the sword. Of course, I don't expect much consistency from people, who are generally pretty hypocritical about anything having to do with their own groups.

And aren't you the one who talks about how the white man taking over America was manifest destiny and that it was fine to displace or wipe out the Indians? So the Jews can't kick out a few Arabs to found their own country? What's the difference?

I kind of resent having my ideals questioned by someone who is so inconsistent in how they apply theirs, depending on whether or not their pet racial groups are involved or not.

And me, I don't believe in "right" or "wrong" when it comes to history. I just like to observe. Moralizing about historical events in which one has no personal stake is for preachers and simpletons.

More on these kids - these poor US kids...

What are the kids taught today? They are taught to want "it all" - 2-ton death-metal coffins (cars), iphones, mcmansions, worthless Chinese plastic garbage - anything and everything, recycled every 6 months or so (with *residuals* ending up as landfill waste). They are taught to max out credit lines, in order to maintain "it all."

So really, it's not just a one-way street where we simply sold them down the river. They have also chosen their current course of action (thrift and savings were options they avoided)...

Good point. Someone is indignant if they can't get on a crowded bus, train, or tram. But once on they will wax eloquent on why the doors should close.

From last week: I forget sometimes you're a country boy and have been "bereft" of many experiences I've had. All Whites who use public transportation in Big City America have horror stories about Blacks acting out there. Lucky you. But don't be dogmatic about things you know nothing about. I don't expect to be believed - most Whites on this site think Whites on the Mexican border are racists for complaining. The President of Ireland went through the area and loftily called them just that.

Whites just don't believe other Whites. There something wrong with our social nervous system you see. It's like be able to see your foot but not being able to feel it. Whites can't feel the pain of other Whites and resent it when they're informed about it.

How did it happen? You see our Media or nervous system was taken over by aliens - who have used it with the utmost malice.

Back to the top: legalizing those here will just encourage more to come. It's an easy answer, and like most easy answers, the wrong one. Look at Alabama, your neighboring state. The Mexicans are running. Do the same everywhere and they will deport themselves. Don't buy into the Fascist Trip the Liberals are selling. Does this contradict what I said before? How? Those here might want the doors closed but those left behind will force there way in regardless. Plus those here will all want Their relations to come in once they're legal.

We had a poster come and go a few months ago.
His handle was "The Bay Aryan."
Wonder if this was his inspiration.
Or if he was the author.
http://www.jimgoad.net/pdf/politics/bayaryan.pdf
Jim Goad has something for everybody.
Thanks to CharlieFoxtrot, I think, for suggesting him to CFN.

"SAN FRANCISCO constantly struggles
with itself to solve the question of how many
assholes it’s possible to fit into a square mile.
How many cybersissies can you cram into a phone
booth? How many Gaia-peddling belly-floppers? How
many self-absorbed monkish Nerf® balls of ideological irrelevance?" etc, etc, etc.
-bay aryan-
Pretty funny satire, actually.

That's my point D: the Japs want take any guff from these obese low lifes. Btw, I'd give them one of the big Islands. But that's it - no more welfare or endless complaining. The hardliners could all go there and Hawaii could develop its volcanic energy potential.

"No, Asoka, what is and what's happening at the Bhopal Centre?" Isn't that where the new OSHO (pronounced Assho) center is located?

:) Nite.

Good points Turk. You have no ideals but power. A man I can deal with. Now let's not have any more "moral" arguments about Whites taking a big chunk of post America America. The Kosovo Doctrine - if it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. If Jews can do it, and Muslims can do it, so can Whites. We agree finally. I've won. You are checkmated, mate.

I do believe in morality btw. But it's complicated. It's refreshing to meet a pragmatist like you and not have to get into - exspecially when most people are so bad at it - only caring about their pet groups like Wage. Not caring about the Whites in South Africa but only Negroes in the rest of Africa.

His Redneck Manifesto was the first White Nationalist book I ever read. I owe alot to "Jim". That he stoped and I kept going is another story. So it goes. One of my friends is now exceeding me in Conspiratology. I'm urging him to begin his Holocaust studies. He will teach me new things. The circle becomes complete.

Vlad said: "Look at Alabama, your neighboring state. The Mexicans are running. Do the same everywhere and they will deport themselves."

Potato farmer Keith Smith saw most of his immigrant workers leave after Alabama's tough immigration law took effect, so he hired Americans. It hasn't worked out: Most show up late, work slower than seasoned farm hands and are ready to call it a day after lunch or by midafternoon. Some quit after a single day.

You better hope they don't deport themselves. America will starve to death without immigrants. The economy of Alabama could crash without immigrants because whites do not want to work.

Arizona tried that anti-immigrant shit. If immigrants left Arizona the fiscal impact of immigrants leaving would shrink Arizona's economy by $48.8 Billion. Arizona better hope immigrants never leave.

disclaimer: i do not agree with everything in the manifesto, and have not read anything else by him...also, his name leads me to figure that a part of his message is intended to do just that, shake things up...that being said, the idea that stereotypes (everything from honkey to n-word) divide and distract poor people from the rich getting richer at our expense is undeniable at this point...

LOL! Osho Centers are multiplying faster than rabbits... all over India.

http://www.oshosky.com/main/medcen/maincen.htm

Indians recognize quality. India has a long history of authentic spiritual masters, so recognition comes easily to them.

Mr. Kunstler,

My goodness! It's a long way to the bottom of the page. This is still Monday, right? The Posts from VNRWANDKHB and ELJXANJGIL seemed to be in Chinese and I soon gave up all attempts at translating them. My loss, I suppose.

But, I've lost my train of thought, haven't I. Oh yes, here it is. We're all silly fools. Utter, complacent, compassless fools. Gorgeous folly.

But that is as it should be, and I thank you all for your energy and self-assurance. But let me tell you, we haven't changed in thousands of years. We are the same as we've ever been.

Mr. Kunstler, I can't thank you enough for the predictability of your posts. I look forward to a Monday morning on the front porch, drinking tea, reading your post and the flood of comments and links. It fills me with great happiness.

Glorious Humanity asserting itself. It's lovely. Is Sandy still in Russia? If you see him, please ask him to eschew obfuscation.

Mike

Ron Paul has a new political ad in Iowa that could have been written by Filippo Tommaso Marinetti and the Italian Futurists: a sense of "going somewhere" via the use of strong diagonals; a high-energy message delivered with a masculine narrator; the invoking of militarism:


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/05/1042626/-Ron-Pauls-new-ad-in-Iowa-is-epic?via=siderecent

"America will starve to death without immigrants."

Complete horse shit.

can you READ??! he was pointing out that buying into "i m better than them", hating niggers, laughing at rednecks, basically marginalizing and dehumanizing ANY group of people IS WHAT ALLOWS THE FUCKERS TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OF OUR WORLD, BECAUSE WE THEN ARE NOT LOOKING AT THEM!!! get it through the programming, assface, you are part of the problem as long as you are a willing puppet and enabling the bullshit...sorry, i shouldn t have called you that...how about jackass?

If America did collapse politically and another Civil War began, I would leave, probably to Canada or some other more civilized place with a still intact government. As much as you like to romanticize political violence, the reality on the ground would be pure horror, especially considering how many guns Americans own and how violent we really are. I could give a shit about the white race taking territory. Fine. I'd get the hell out and not worry about it.

Hurry now and get zero per cent financing with as little as zero down at a cost of zero fiat digital dollars.
But wait, this deal won't last long and if you sign up now we'll throw in a free radioactive paint job, sorry folks gasoline not included. Have a robotic holly jolly political correct festive season.

It is CRUNCH TIME, as E. said. It could come as soon as the day after tomorrow because Standard & Poor's is warning it may downgrade ratings for 15 euro zone countries, including top-rated France and Germany. This whole economic house of cards could come tumbling down around 2:00 p.m. next Tuesday.

Actually, Vlad, my girlfriend is Chilean. She's of mixed blood, Spanish and Indian. She's not black. Not that I would care.

Exactly! The old divide and conquer. But Vlad is too emotionally blinded to understand.

So do you admit that the Polys routinely attack Whites - as the singer Jewel spoke about? And are you alright with that? Why? You do have to give an explanation if so - and whatever it is, it will be bullshit.

ASOKA: "America will starve to death without immigrants."

TURKLE: Complete horse shit.

====================

Ignore reality at your own risk. I provided documentation based on what is actually happening in places like Alabama and Arizona. If that were to happen in the entire USA, America will starve to death. I provided the numbers for economic impact.

You provide no historical antecedent, no analysis, no facts, no numbers. You just offer your opinion.

Between your hatred, bad grammar, bad style etc - I don't even know who you're refering to. Do Whites have the right to have their own Countries or not? That's what you have to decide.

Your mind will tell you one thing. And your heart another. And your decency or heart/mind a third. Trust that. The other two are relative and programable, the third, conscience, is innate.

"America will starve to death without immigrants."
-asoka-

"Complete horse shit."
-turkle-

You've got that right, turkle.
What America will starve from is a lack of diesel, fertilizer, herbicides - coupled to a big supply chain disruption or two.

More and more immigrants - will just be adding to the number of people who will fight it out - mostly in the cities - before starving.


Right on, Bill! :)

You are making false assumptions about behavior, that it doesn't change because of circumstances, which is demonstrably false. If immigrants doing all the farm work were to leave all at once, then the people remaining would modify their behavior such that everyone didn't starve to death. Farmers might have to pay higher wages, etc. but the crops would not rot in the field. Someone would do the work. America also has a lot of extra land on which people could grow fruits and veggies, if needed.

That said, Mexican immigrants are certainly an important part of the farm economy and its primary workers. I'm not arguing they are not. That doesn't mean that they should be allowed to stay and work here illegally. Work visas are the way to go, as it puts everyone on the grid, and prevents these people from being exploited. Ultimately, it is better for the immigrants if they can come and stay here legally rather than illegally.

In every other country, including Mexico, they will boot you out on your ass if you are found to overstay your visa or were caught after entering illegally, or even give you jail time. Why should it be different here?

I think all that a lot of people are saying is, sure, you can come stay here and work if a farmer wants to hire you, but please follow the rules to get here. What is so complicated about that such that, instead, you support millions of people breaking our laws?

Now I know the visa system is pretty messed up, in that it is somewhat expensive to obtain one and takes awhile. That should be streamlined and reformed so that farmers get the workers they require on a yearly basis. I am all in favor of it.

And then there's all the other jobs that illegals will do for sub-market wages, such as restaurant work, cleaning, etc. Please don't tell me that these jobs could not be done by other people who are here legally, like teenagers or the large number of people unemployed who have been searching for work. This has always been the case in the past that these positions were filled just fine, and I don't buy your stupid line that people in America are too across-the-board lazy to pick up this slack. Talk about stupid generalizations.

When I first looked at the length of that Ron Paul ad I thought it was an attempt to economize. After watching it though, it seems to embody the spirit of a military thrust: direct,abrupt,lethal. No contemplation or consideration, no taking of philosophically divergent prisoners, just destruction. "Git ir done" (as the the Dept of Education is incinerated by an explosive).

These ads are not designed/composed without thought. They appeal to a certain clientele which is not a small part of GOP America.

"What America will starve from is a lack of diesel, fertilizer, herbicides - coupled to a big supply chain disruption or two."

Yeah, good point, prog. Though if Americans had to go "back to the land", don't you think we could grow massive amounts of food locally, in people's yards or common spaces? This isn't done now, because it isn't needed. From what I've heard, a lot of Russians did this after the collapse of the USSR. And, also, we eat a lot of meat. Wouldn't cutting back on this mean there was a lot more grains/corn available for direct consumption? I think there's a lot of room to tighten the belt here without massive Ethiopian style famine occurring.

I kind of think that if America starts seeing serious food supply problems, with our massive amount of arable land and (still) relatively low population density, that most of the rest of the world will likely have gone Mad Max some time ago.

i was referring to jim goad, whom you mistakenly called a white nationalist...at least as far as i could tell...as for grammar, fuck youself; style, it s mine, and beside the point, so fuck off; and i lived with more hate than you can comprehend (and every bit justified) til a year ago...so thankyou for having a nice day...

Anyway...how can anyone take Ron Paul seriously at this point? I mean he just approved an ad that metaphorically blows up the Dept of Education?!

Does Ron Paul even take himself seriously ?

"...if Americans had to go "back to the land", don't you think we could grow massive amounts of food locally, in people's yards or common spaces?"
-turkle-

Good question, turk. And it's the sort of question that a lot of people come drifting through CFN hoping to see debated - before leaving in "expressed?" disgust - over the racial/religious/never/ending/bull/shit/session - that CFN tends to become every week.

To answer your question - growing stuff is not "hard" per se, but it takes some intelligence, a surprising number of supplies (seeds, mulches, etc.), and most of all - it takes KNOWLEDGE, built up over time - and then shared.

I like to think that I could contribute to a knowledge base up here, where I live. I think TrippTicket, and a couple of other posters certainly could - where they live.

But - It'd be a very local endeavor, and a very near thing, for a year or two - as far as putting enough calories on the tables - to keep things going.

==========================
"I kind of think that if America starts seeing serious food supply problems, with our massive amount of arable land and (still) relatively low population density, that most of the rest of the world will likely have gone Mad Max some time ago." -turkle-

I hope you're right, turk. I'm working hard on reducing immigration into the US, though - because you could be wrong. And we, in the US, won't get a "do-over," once things slide out of control.

The continental US had something like 30 million inhabitants, prior to Columbus. We have over 10X that number now. Everyone needs to consider these numbers, as they think this through - and then, try to contribute to this discussion - on this "peak everything" website.

looking at the iran/ syria question, and reading some articles pointing out the sanctions (which amounts to blockade) and the chinese and russioan responses, i was struck by the realization that there is a ready-made war for the military industrial complex to shore up our economy- i mean their stock market- long enough for obama to be left holding the bag...which, btw, nobody really thinks the republicans want, not with occupy here, because if the military coup were to be staged with mewt romnich (not mine, though i wish!) In charge, that might drive republicans over to the drebel scahm (emporer palatine, i believe)...and they ll be needed for traitors, i mean prison guards

"Does Ron Paul even take himself seriously"

I think he does, Buck. And I kind of like the ad. And - I hope Republicans in Iowa LOVE the ad.

Remember - I'm in Georgia. So I'm looking ahead to the primary. Since there's no point in voting Democratic, I gotta' pick me a Republican.

I've always liked Cain - he had a show on WSB, local here, that I listen to when I'm out in the ATL and trying to avoid traffic jams.

And now we're left with Mitt the Twitt.
Or Newt - who should crawl back under a rock with the rest of the amphibians and newts.
(Very, very, old Georgia joke, btw.)

So I'm shifting my vote to Ron Paul.
He make be unelectable or not, against Obamma.
But at least he'll shake things up a little bit.
-----------
And I've never met a grunt level teacher who did not think that blowing up the national DOEducation - was not a pretty good idea.

I was a hardcore enthusiast of the following blog for years, this past decade:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal

I read Communion back in 1991, and I was instantly convinced of *something* - not sure what that was, tho. Until, I witnessed what I saw, in August, 1992, on the southeast corner of the Hillsboro, OR airport. About 3-400 feet to the northwest, an irridescent orb, about 15-20 feet in diameter, appeared there, hovering like a dripping mirage. About 2 seconds later, some sort of lever-arm effect appeared to drop from its spherical plane to below the sphere, and it shot off at a 60' angle southwest of the land surface plane, making no sound and leaving a shimmering mirage trail of *smoke*. In about 4 seconds, it was over 6 miles high, and out of sight. It was twilight/sunset time, completely clear sky, and the sun cast a shadow off the coastal range mountains (~15-20 miles away) about 1-2 miles high. The path through this shadow was evident, and happened within 2 seconds... (No, I never reported it to MUFON/etc - my sister was there and saw it *kinda*). Not sure if it was a manned or unmanned object...

I'm convinced some humans are implanted with tracking devices - the lucky ones reject them somehow. The following was a killer book written by a NASA scientist, who collected UFO sightings over decades from colleagues:

Paul R. Hill, Unconventional Flying Objects.

Difficult reading - might be best to revisit some basic courses in EM field theory first...

Not sure if any of you have listened to Gordon Cooper's expose' on his experiences, but they are sure eye-openers. Strange stuff.

I suspect they are the *Ghadz*, who will merely spectate and *sample*, as they've always done. It seems strange that those who they might be most vested in, seem to have the most luck (certainly not a 3rd world African/Asian with a 1st grade education and no reading/writing skills)... Dark stuff!

damn thankful my dad was a farmer, for as long as he could, and i learned some basics about growing...organic to some extent, too, which looks like a handier and handier thing these days...hm, he was a carpenter after that, so i learned quite a bit about building a house too now all i ll need is a defensible compound...whaddya know, i guess i ll see some of y all down The Road...just hold your hands where i can see em- preferably holding either something useful, or which demonstrates a skill we can use...cheers, clusterfuckers!

I am shocked!

PC, why this conversion? You were in the fascist imperialist camp for so long, what changed your mind?

" Indians recognize quality. India has a long history of authentic spiritual masters, so recognition comes easily to them."

Do they? Please explain "authentic"? I see so many Guru's making extraordinary claims after all. Osho asserts:

"The more capable your mind becomes of concentration, the closer you come to the point of materialization…But try it first in very easy ways. For example: take a glass of water. Then float a very thin pin on the surface of oil or glycerin. Then concentrate on the pin. Concentrate! Without blinking , focus both your eyes on the pin for two minutes. After two minutes begin to order the pin to go to the right. Within seven days of practicing it, you will be able to move the pin."

You seem like a person with a scientific bent Asoka, so how about some extraordinary evidence to validate the above...you know, in the spirit of authentication?

"Within seven days of practicing it, you will be able to move the pin."

Yeah, sure, and monkeys might fly out of my butt.

check out "the fourth kind"...

"As it is, you just barfed out a bunch of ad hominem attacks I could just as well hear on an episode of Hannity and Friends."

LOL! You summed that up so much more eloquently than I!

ProCon I am challenging you and Vlad and Turkle to stop your immigrant bashing.

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, it would be a national disaster. Here are some of my reasons:

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, businesses will lose workers. And businesses that rely on undocumented workers cannot bring in “legal” immigrant workers because the U.S. immigration system provides no lawful visas for workers essential to many parts of the U.S. economy. Disaster. We need immigrants. Businesses cannot survive without their workforce.

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, businesses will see fewer customers. Sales will go down by 60 percent in some parts of the USA. Disaster. We need immigrants.

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, key sectors of the USA economy will suffer irreparable damage. Food prices will go up. We won't be able to rebuild after hurricanes and tornadoes without immigrants who work as roofers and construction workers.

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the agriculture sector will experience major losses. More disaster. Already the USA is experiencing food insecurity and hunger is increasing. Those trends would increase without immigrants. Disaster.

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the USA tourism industry will be threatened. Who can blame people not wanting to visit a place where they will be concerned about being hassled about their legal status? Whether it’s legitimate or not, that’s the message that will be seen by people who might come to a USA that is hostile toward immigrants.

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the overall costs of doing business in the USA will be higher. Businesses will be required by law to use a costly and inaccurate electronic verification system, like E-Verify, to check whether prospective employees are authorized to work. And the cost of hiring and training new workers to replace the current experienced workers who would leave the USA would be another new cost of doing business.

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, new businesses will be cancelled. Businesses could decide not to locate projects or plants in the USA, especially from Hispanic countries like Spain. In Alabama this is already happening. BBVA Compass, owned by the Spanish megabank BBVA Group, is said to have cancelled plans for an $80 million tower in Birmingham for the bank's U.S. headquarters. And state officials are reporting that Golden Dragon, a Chinese copper pipe manufacturer that had announced it planned to build a $100 million plant in Alabama, is having second thoughts.

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the USA will lose taxpayers. The entire undocumented population is estimated to pay Billions of dollars annually in state and local taxes, including income taxes, property taxes, and sales taxes, this at a time when many cities and counties in the USA are on the brink of declaring bankruptcy. Disaster.

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the costs of defending the anti-immigrant laws would be significant. The U.S. Department of Justice and several other state and national organizations have already sued the state of Alabama to prevent their new immigration law from going into effect. The federal district court and the 11th circuit court temporarily halted parts of the new Alabama law while they consider the significant legal and constitutional questions raised by Alabama's broad new law. While the legal costs have not been tallied, the lessons from Arizona are instructive. In the first year alone, Arizona spent $1.9 million just to defend its own new law, S.B. 1070, in preliminary court cases. In Farmers Branch, Texas, and Hazelton, Pennsylvania, the costs of defending their own restrictive immigration laws are expected to top $5 million for each town. We cannot afford it. Trying to force ALL immigrants out would be a disaster.

IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the whole country would face new costs from an unfunded mandate. Forcing out immigrants would cause new economic losses, but unfunded mandates would also add to the country's bill. New costs would come from the training required for all state law enforcement officials, the new data collection and reporting required of all public schools, and the additional work that all state, county, and municipal employees will have to do to verify the immigration status of every person seeking state services or doing business anywhere in the USA. Disaster. Aren't we broke now? That is the mantra, anyway. Forcing out immigrants would be a disaster.

Fortunately, none of you -- ProCon, Vlad or Turkle -- have any influence over immigration.

Fortunately for me, immigration will continue unabated. I will do everything I can to get MORE IMMIGRANTS to come the USA and to make them feel welcome. (Easy for me, they are already my neighbors.)

We need immigrants, for all the reasons I gave above.

And history is on my side. This country was founded by immigrants. This country was built by immigrants. Immigrants have contributed culturally and economically. And immigrants are the future of this country.

Soon you white "antis" will be a minority. I can't wait. The future is multicultural. Diversity is strength. And we, the people of color, are winning the battle against morally-challenged white xenophobes like you.

Join the Center for American Progress.
http://www.americanprogress.org/aboutus

Did anyone read the below? Maybe the Obama administration is not really the the medical insurance industry "sell out" that Wage and other disgruntled(absolutists)leftists claim. Not if only the Affordable Health Care Act can clear the Supreme Court hurdle:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-buried-in-obamacare-explodes-today-halleluja/2/

BuckStud, I am not bringing up Osho and religion every week. You guys are. I am just responding.

But instead of going into a long explanation of how to recognize authenticity, if you are really interested and not just playing "gotcha," then read this book: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/60074883

Buck Stud, another book I just read last month that addresses authenticity is: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/671541674 if you are really interested.

""The more capable your mind becomes of concentration, the closer you come to the point of materialization…But try it first in very easy ways. For example: take a glass of water. Then float a very thin pin on the surface of oil or glycerin. Then concentrate on the pin. Concentrate! Without blinking , focus both your eyes on the pin for two minutes. After two minutes begin to order the pin to go to the right. Within seven days of practicing it, you will be able to move the pin.""

You know, that sounds so *Ghad* damned kewl, I might have to give it a try, for the next week or 52...

Ok Asoka. I thought I was just responding too, but I will refrain from mentioning Osho in a skeptical manner in the future after this post.

As I mentioned last week: For me personally, Osho was best experienced via the written word. The Indian equivalent of a Joseph Campbell if you will. And where Campbell was content and humble enough to remain a brilliant scholar/philosopher, Osho drove down the road of Divine Leader in a Rolls Royce. I believe it was a wrong turn and a business decision.

Ix, you do realize that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, right? Assuming your honesty, I've no doubt you saw SOMETHING, but the Law of Parsimony (Occam's Razor) states the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Many atmospheric phenomena could account for what you saw, as well as brain pattern-recognition functioning. Hinting that it was made by ET's or some such is not likely.

I'll tell you, Ix, when someone brings indisputable proof of other-wordly visitations like a live alien being or when, metaphorically speaking, an alien spacecraft lands on the White House front lawn, I'll be one of the first to embrace their existence.

"Fortunately, none of you -- ProCon or Turkle -- have any influence over immigration."
-asoka.-

That was a rather long blah, blah, blah, wasn't it turk. Asoka. is fixated on ECONOMIC GROWTH DUE TO IMMIGRANTS.

And anyone who joins FAIR or NumbersUSA can have, potentially great, influence over reduction of immigration.

On a Conservative, Republican, Chamber of Commerce website - asoka.'s mantra of Grow, Grow, Grow The Economy might be seen as a good thing.

On a website built around a long hard look at environmental collapse due to peak everything.

One could hope for more honesty - and less disingenuousness - among the recurrent posters. We're not going to get anything like that from asoka., in his current incarnation, though.

===============================
Now, we need Pangolin to tell us how important ethnic take-out food is to the future of America.

And we need someone else to tell us that the United States must embrace a population of 600,000,000 - even to the point of causing Global human death and Global ecosystem collapse - - and our week on CFN will already be complete.

And here it is, only Monday. ;-(

Note to new posters -
asoka. goes by various names:
1.Resident impediment
2. Old cut and paste
3. The circling hawk of political correctness

He can be amusing.
But is best not taken seriously.
Like Osho wanted to be.

Hey, soka, if immigration is such a great thing, let's just assimilate the entire nation of Mexico. What could possibly go wrong?

Or perhaps, if you like Mexicans so much, go live in their country for awhile illegally. Let's see how long you last before they boot you out on your ass. Unlike you, they don't believe in open borders for their own country. (Kind of ironic, huh?)

You seem like a person with a scientific bent Asoka, so how about some extraordinary evidence to validate the above...you know, in the spirit of authentication?

You seem like an intelligent person, Buck Stud. Why don't you use the scientific method, or do your own research, instead of asking me? All I would say is that there is much we do not yet understand. Over decades, consciousness research has accumulated evidence of the real and measureable existence of "spooky actions at a distance" -- modes of telepathy, telekinesis, clairvoyance, and the like.

More recently scientists have begun rigorous study of the effects of distant healing intention and prayer vis-a-vis nonhuman living systems and patients in clinical trials.

A barrier to taking such work seriously may be the belief that it is fundamentally incompatible with the scientific world view. I suspect this is your case (and Turkle's as well).

Contemporary physics has generated a series of paradigms that can be used to make sense of, interpret, and explore "psi" and distant healing.

I'm thinking here of paradigms related to relativity theory and quantum mechanics like the energetic transmission model, presuming the effects of conscious intention to be mediated by an as-yet-unknown energy signal. This could explain Osho's little experiment (which I have not conducted myself).

Another possible explanation is the model of path facilitation. As gravity, according to general relativity, "warps" space–time, easing certain pathways of movement, so may acts of consciousness have warping and facilitating effects on the fabric of the surrounding world.

Or the model of nonlocal entanglement drawn from quantum mechanics. Perhaps people, like particles, can become entangled so they behave as one system with instantaneous and unmediated correlations across a distance. I have no idea which of these might explain Osho's experiment. I am just suggesting there might be a scientific basis we do not yet fully understand or know how to control.

Another model might involve actualization of potentials. The act of measurement in quantum mechanics collapses a probabilistic wave function into a single outcome. Perhaps conscious intention in Osho's experiment can act similarly, helping to actualize one of a series of possibilities. I don't know. Nor do I care. I have NEVER been interested in the supernatural or "miracles" or anything "paranormal" ... I have enough to deal with in the "normal" world.

If that was Osho's thing (and you did not provide a source for that supposed Osho experiment), then that is his SVA DHARMA. I am free to pursue a different path, as Osho insisted when he initiated me into neosannyas.

"Ix, you do realize that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof"

I saw the B1 bomber in 1975 over Milwaukee, WI. I witnessed about 10 annual air shows at the Milwaukee airport from 1975-1990 I've lived next to the Hillsboro airport for the last 21 years, the sight of the annual Portland air show. I've seen virtually every type of known (US) aircraft come in and out of this airport - I've seen the B2 bomber on 4 different occasions.

When you see something yourself, clear as day, and you're familiar with the latest in aircraft technology - you know what you've seen is not *swamp gas*. Something with an invisibility shroud that appears irridescent/mirage-like. Something that travels 6+ miles straight up in 4 seconds, instantly, with over 100g's acceleration in less than 0.5 seconds - well, I'm sure you can call that a cumulus cloud.

But then, I'm sure you're still convinced that somehow, Nagasaki and Hiroshima are very safe places to walk now (magikally - scrubbed by whom?). And, those sightings over Chernobyl had nothing to do with it being *safe* now. Finally, Fukushima, still in complete "China Syndrome" meltdown, is apparently no longer an issue. Ever spent a summer in Bikini Atoll (70 megatons+++)? They cleaned that area up as well...

I suspect you have an implant in your ear cartilage, or in between your toes. And, I don't suspect you will investigate NASA engineer Paul R. Hill's book. Nor will you give an ounce of credence to Cooper's testimony (ON RECORD).

I do wish asoka. would give citatations.
"As gravity, according to general relativity, "warps" space–time, easing certain pathways of movement, so may acts of consciousness have warping and facilitating effects on the fabric of the surrounding world...."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16296928

Let us all make note that this is a ".gov" website.
And it must, of course, be peer-reviewed.

Prog,

Don't get me wrong, I thought it was a good ad considering the audience he is targeting (that is not a shot at you; just a general observation). But I did find the evoking of military tactics ironic, considering that Paul laments U.S. military expansion.

There's a lot of things I like about Ron Paul; he is on the right side of many issues. But as that ad reveals, Paul's approach is fundamentally one of destruction: Destruction of government institutions, social safety nets, etc. Paul seeks to tear down societal structures and leave the rest to the mythological ethos of the Libertarian manifesto. I am not that faithful in human nature.

LOL!

Turkle, I live within minutes of the border with Mexico. I am very happy on this side of the border, to serve as a welcoming committee.

Sorry if you think you are losing your country. That is just the way it is. Accept reality. I think our country is being enriched by the immigrants I help get here. And I am enjoying the richness.

ProCon, the article you cite is from the National Library of Medicine database. They don't include articles from journals that are not peer-reviewed.

Total k00k quackery conspiracy theory here now!

We are merely rats in a cage. A lower life form, which is being *monitored* from the outside. Data is sampled/collected, and the need for data is apparently very strong (AI simulation?). Any distress to the system that we rats inhabit is corrected, so data analysis can continue uninterrupted. Certain rats are more vested than others, so they must be kept alive for further analysis.

Get it? *Ghad* cares for the elderly in high places...

He can be amusing.
But is best not taken seriously.
Like Osho wanted to be.

================

You have a citation for that assertion, ProCon?

You know nothing about Osho. He was completely against seriousness. If you are interested in what Osho said about seriousness:

http://www.osho.com/library/online-library-playfulness-serious-totally-5e70b296-d61.aspx

"Paul seeks to tear down societal structures and leave the rest to the mythological ethos of the Libertarian manifesto"
-buck-

I don't disagree with anything in this post, buck.
(and keep in mind that I'm a life-long liberal, so a "shot at me" misses the mark. hehe)

Two very relevant ideas, though:
1. Ron Paul is "playing to the base," here. With some skill. It's better than Romney saying he was for health care before he was against it. Or better than Gingrich "not having serially monogamous sex with that(those) women." or whatever - DAMN, wish I was a comedian!
(you cannot make this shit up!!)

2. Ron Paul, if elected, WILL NOT single handedly GUT all of the non- libertarian positions of the United States Government. Certainly not over the objections of 535? Congresspeople and Lord-only-knows-how-many bureaucrats and lobbyists.
===================
I think it's way past time to shake things up.
Obama has demonstrated that he will NOT do it.
Romney won't do it.
Gingrich will only f*ck it up worse.

That leaves Ron Paul.
He's got my vote in the primary.
And probably in the general election.

I think it's way past time to shake things up.

=================

I agree, ProCon. As long as the shaking being done does not involve any kind of violence.

You may have to write in Ron Paul's name because I don't think it will be printed on the ballot.

CORRECTION

I agree, ProCon. As long as the shaking being done does not involve any kind of violence or forced deportation of immigrants.

"He can be amusing.
But is best not taken seriously.
Like Osho wanted to be." (..not taken seriously.)
-asoka-

Read it again asoka..
You're missing something.
Read it again.

I'm trying to help you out, here, asoka..
You're a joke. You have achieved your goal.
Just like osho.
I'm offering confirmation - for CFN posters.
It's time for you to move to a higher plane.

"check out "the fourth kind"..."

I actually saw that a while ago - the whole thing was fake. I suspected as much, while I watched it - none of the video was live/real. NONE OF IT.

I get so sick of the hateful/vengeful aliens plot line. If these aliens are real (and they may have even been born here on Earth or Mars 100+ million years ago), their technology would be so far superior to ours, that they wouldn't need to spend 50-100 years plotting for the right time to *attack*. GIMME A BREAK.

We are the rats in the maze, and they are the scientists. It's really that simple, and the proof is in the *pudding*.

Oh and for the religious fanatical dipshits who believe in *GOD*: Pray.

My apologies. Thanks for making it clear. And thank you for the compliment. I have indeed succeeded in becoming a joke unto myself. And I am having fun. Puritans hate that.

"If that was Osho's thing (and you did not provide a source for that supposed Osho experiment)"

Asoka,

It was in "The Unknown Life Of Jesus" that I posted the other day. Despite my criticisms of assertions here and there, the overall piece is very interesting and entertaining. Basically, Osho claims that Jesus did not die on the cross, that he was a trained Yogi who possessed extraordinary control over body functions like respiration and was thus able to feign death. He then skipped off back to India and lived to a very ripe old age.

So let me get this straight, soka. The unemployment rate is 9% and 15% for construction workers, and much higher in certain demographics, notably teenagers and twenty somethings and blacks, and you want MORE immigration? Don't you think that the millions of people out of work in this country deserve to get a fair shot at a job instead of competing with more illegal immigrant Mexican peasants willing to work for sub-par wages? Or do you figure, screw the people that are already here?

It's time for you to move to a higher plane.

=================

I like the planes I use.
Usually Southwest Air or Continental. :)

Buck Stud, that one I can verify. I went to Kashmir, to Srinagar, and asked to be taken to Jesus' tomb. Dude was shorter than I imagined.

But Jesus lived to a ripe old age and died in Kashmir. Crucifixion was a cruel and lengthy way to die which took up to 24 hours. Jesus was taken down after a few hours. He was still alive. They put him in a tomb, then when they went back for him, he had already split for Kashmir. The tomb was empty.

If you are interested, here is a book about it: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/3307681


I see the chief merit of Ron Paul as his insistence in auditing the Fed. The chance of it happening? Zero. The Fed has been lying through their teeth and JHK exposed the biggest of all the lies recently i.e., that TARP was TEN TIMES bigger than their $800 billion quote.

Even agencies like the Fed, which, in the past, were supposed to be very august, stern agencies, are a passel of crooks and liars. How can we expect our younger generations to toe a line of virtue when assholes like Bernanke, Corzine, Paulson, and Dimon seem to be faring to well?


E.

There were 10 or more different financial bailout programs, and TARP was only one. The rabbit hole goes deep. From what I've read, the actual total of grants and loans to financial institutions could be upwards of $15 trillion. Who really knows though?

Wouldn't it be such a sad state of affairs, to admit we are merely rats in their experimental cage? What would that mean? What does that say we'd have to *admit*...

What would it also say, about their lack of interference, except in the most extreme circumstances? I'm still totally curious about what's bubbling to the center of the earth from Fukushima...

You and your buddha. Lulz! Praise be to buddha!!!

FWIW, I am going to try bending that pin suspended in oil - and if it works - OH JOY!!!

Everybody physically here who has the ability to do the work deserves a "fair shot" at employment including undocumented immigrants. No one should be excluded. There is plenty of work to do and the corporations are sitting on Trillions of dollars, but they are not hiring because they say there is not enough demand. Hey! Demand. More immigrants would be the solution.

You are not mistaken, Asoka. I have a 40 year association with Meher Baba.

There is plenty of work to do yet unemployment is almost 10%....hm, something about those two statements doesn't go together.

"There is plenty of work to do yet unemployment is almost 10%....hm, something about those two statements doesn't go together."

Aint that the *byotch*. We are all but *worker bees*. Whether we want to believe it or not, *they* are watching, and they are there only to *COLLECT DATA*.

*They* will only interfere, in extreme circumstances - ala Hiroshima/Nagasaki/Chernobyl/Bikini Atoll/Fukushima.

If'n you are uld-skul, don't even try the *suicide* route! You are but a rat in this cage - they need your data...

How do *YOU* define *freedom*? Is it that axe in your back? Or is it you conformity? You are nothing but a *metric*.

What about His mystical Word?

"Get it? *Ghad* cares for the elderly in high places..."

No, they don't get it, *AT ALL*.

There you go, Soker! That's how you do the sock-puppet *THANG*.

dang, that tinfoil hat is just a little tight there, y all, maybe you could try an armodillo helmet...re that movie, i was skeptical until i saw the woman s interview after the fact; that was the scaredest human being i ve ever seen...that was NOT acting sir, not by a long shot...and what makes you think the footage was fake? i thought over all it was pretty convincing, even if the premise is hard to accept...

Soker needs some time to reminisce (sp) with his longitude! Poor guy all caught up in his own fate!!! Bigtime *FAIL*!!!

Sorry, I felt for that guy!

CFT - you are not ... LOL!!! Lulz!!! Bwahahaha!!!!

Like so many who have been absued, you just seek to pass on the pain to others. I have nothing to do with it - so knock it off.

What's wrong with Whites having their own Country like the Founders wanted?

Perhaps we Whites are their Sons. As the Bible said "The Sons of God found the Daughters of Man fair". We do have something unearthly about us - at least some of us. And we are hated by those merely of the Earth.

I like his work with the Masts. I myself am a mast like Salik.

Charles Bukowski dated and I believe married a Baba Lover. He refered to the huge poster that read "Don't Worry, Be Happy" in his book Women. He called Meher, Drayer Baba.

what s wrong with people having a planet? and that is downright chickenshit of you to try to deflect like that we already know you re a piss-poor example, but is that the best you can come up with? really?! if you can t tell, i ve been trying to offer you a perspective to use to heal the poison of separatism and hate because it is stupid sure i ve cursed at you, because i ve little patience for racism; if you wouldn t utter such simple-minded drivel, i m sure i could extend to you the courtesy i ve demonstrated already elsewhere...in fact, instead of inflicting, i have spent my life absorbing other s pain; i am a healer...thing is, i can t in good conscience just allow you to just blindly post such blatantly obnoxious lies without challenge, or i would be remiss in trying to save my world from the destruction that you and those like you (yes, vlad, your kind) are, inadvertantly or not, inviting upon us all in your ignorance

Did the Heaven's Gate people make it back to the Mothership sans bodies - or was that a mistake?

I met them once. They hated all the care the body needed. They felt that the Earth or as they called it "the garden" had been fucked with by bad aliens. They thought a person should be able to just eat an apple and be fine for the whole day.

?not what- and what s so funny?

Vlad just can't get over the fact that it is 2011 and not 1789 and that black people don't count as 3/5 of a person anymore. Sucks to be him, I guess.

What is racism? At its best, it's just the natural love for one's own people - prefering them over others as a Parent prefers their own children ot others. Blacks, East Asians, and South Asians all love their own more than others. Why shouldn't we have this same basic human right? You haven't thought it thru.

I was speaking losely before. Goad's book lead me to real White Nationalism. It was a step for me. You are right: He himself wasn't - at least not at that point. Don't know about now. I don't think so though. I read one by him over at Taki Mag recently. He does still seem to think Whites are getting a really bad deal - just like Fred Reed does. So he's a friend of our's at least.

Big French Revolution fan, eh? They're bringing back the guilotine I hear - you're going to have alot of fun watching the heads roll on TV. Dale will get to watch it in person.

asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka

thanks andy

Don't worry, there are many VERY intelligent people out there who are VERY capable of running a country (far more so than the current band of morons), but who do not have a voice or access to billions of bucks to waste on a political campaign. There will be no end to the world or history etc, but we will look back on this bullshit as we do all of the other failed civilizations, with shame and shock.

Look Dude. It's really pretty simple. You can either have a bunch of bag men for campaign contributions, or you can create a culture where working at a car wash is the first step in the brotherhood.

TRANSLATION
I got mine. Y'all stay the hell out.

Don't make me wrap up in a ...flag. It only heightens my perception of the inane.

Re: Ron Paul

Seriously, we are like someone who's been sleeping for over 30 years and failed to see that someone bound us up with a rope and now we can't move.

Over 30 years of corporatism stopping us from being as innovative as we might have been in all areas of function.

Over 30 yeas of no regulation all the time, moving toward institutional lawlessness. Catherine Austin Fitts describes how deliberate it is that people in government who were trying to do their job were fired and threatened.

Over 30 years of bad trade deals called "free market and trade economy" that are anything but. Another Orweillian spin.

The Fed who was managing interest rates down to create a housing bubble and now bails out international banks to the tune of Multi-trillions!--The consequences are that the people are going to have everything they paid for in taxes gutted---everything but more war and privatized contractors who for national security purposes, you will never know how much they are getting---Oh, and to make matters worse they are the American Stasi! Your tax dollars at work.

The Repugnacan'ts now want to gut education. Is it because schcools teach evolution, or is their ideology tells them that everything public must be made private? Along with gutting education, they want a new source of slave labor--your kids! And they'll fire the adults who now hold the jobs.

Listen to what Newt says, he's letting you know where this thing wants to go. Now tell me if we can compete with the rest of the world.

With the number of things I've mentioned, let me know if you think one man can compete against an international apparatus that is so far gone, that even if we wanted to step this back, we have international trade treaties that we would be breaking.

I was listening to Ratigan yesterday and he was talking about our public works initiative to renovate the San Fransisco bridge. We will be hiring 3000 Chinese to make the steel. They don't have experience doing this nor the engineering know-how, but they will get the job.
Now I ask you, What made America great? We did it all and all manufacturing we did paid for other related industry--we were once great, but the free trade thing for the top 1% of our CEO's are destroying our wealth.

Wealth destruction for the first world is moving forward. Don't think Ron Paul is going to change this.

you re ignoring the point, surprise surprise, that different race s is a construct- different appearances are just that- appearances...and that focusing your attention on those differences is keeping you from seeing the real situation, that we as humans have been divided and oppressed by a group of psychopaths into essentially slaves...now think about that, vlad, and what it means in real terms in your own life...it matters not that we are paid a pittance, if what we do for that subsistence is furthering the control of our lives and home: it amounts to the same situation slaves in name have found themselves in throughout history, black or white...hating the guy at the oar next to you prohibits you from seeing that there is only one chain binding us all to the bench...and that chain of hate can be broken with love and understanding...i urge you to read the manifesto again, with an open mind this time, and pay attention to the part about labels and scapegoats...if you get it, you will feel your minor irritation at "them niggers" turn to a real and abiding anger at THEM BASTARDS who have lied to and about, and decieved you, me, and 99% of everyone else...

I've been trying to find a good balanced news feed.
Can't find one.
Although, setting my Google news to "Australia" is the best I've found, so far.
At least it screens out Sports/Sports and Kardashian/Entertainment - that's US-centric.

Maybe you have to go around to the other side of the world to try to get a perspective on things.

Or maybe the Aussies are just smarter than us.

But not that much. Because here's a news item.
About a man with a little business and a local wife - living in the Philippines.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/gunfire-heard-as-australian-teacher-was-snatched-in-the-philippines-20111206-1oh89.html

Those New Age Philippine Muslims -
What lovely Beings of Light.
HAH! hah

Yeah - more diversity will solve US problems. not.

Wow! thanks for the link, i had heard nothing of this...no wonder the conservative nutjobs have been calling it "obamacare"- more like 'obamascare'! i ll admit i didn t really have much of a dog in the fight, as i ll never be able to afford health insurance myself...at least not to the extent i d like, being a drastically under-employed construction worker by trade...but damn, this almost gives me some of that 'hope' everybody s been talking about...shee-it, talk about your stealth legislation!

"The United States is awash in gasoline. So much so, in fact, that the country is exporting a record amount of it.

The country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

That is about twice the amount at the start of the year, and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay."

http://www.ksat.com/money/Gasoline-The-new-big-U-S-export/-/2602640/4876032/-/pnqktt/-/index.html


Turkle said:
There were 10 or more different financial bailout programs, and TARP was only one. The rabbit hole goes deep. From what I've read, the actual total of grants and loans to financial institutions could be upwards of $15 trillion. Who really knows though?
***************************************************************

I claim it's the Second Dark Ages because, as JHK says, the rule of law is so broken down that NONE of these crooks will ever see a day of jail time and are eating pheasant under glass and lobster thermador while ordinary people are being HOUNDED by the IRS and mortgage bankers for amounts that are a pittance compared to the looting by financiers.

It's like the entire WORLD is now a boiler room scam.

E.

...experts and industry insiders say [you re fucked; no job and no money for basics] will continue...


LB said:
Wealth destruction for the first world is moving forward. Don't think Ron Paul is going to change this.
************************************************************

I agree. Paul would be stonewalled by BOTH parties because with PAC money electing and running our government, anyone opposed to the Mo' Money party will either never get any legislation passed or will be ASSASSINATED. Sigh.


E.

E.

You're so right about the boiler room global economy and yes, the gravy tastes so good there's no way it's going to change and there's no way the congress is going to police itself about the issue of insider trading--it's crazy to think it will.

About RP--not only his agenda would be assassinated.

NOTE TO CFNers.

Great post on oftwominds.con yesterday Charles Hugh Smith telling the Europeans that their choice is clear: debt peonage for decades or let the banks fall.

[It's your choice, Europe; choose wisely. If you want a model for sanity and growth, look to Iceland. They renounced their unpayable debts and debt-serfdom, and let the market reprice their currency, debt and risk. The nightmare is past for them; they chose wisely. Now it's your turn to choose.
The debt-serfdom will fall to you, not the banks or your Elites.]

CFT, before you get too excited, this is still an Obama giveaway to private corporate health care.

80% or 85% toward health care is a joke. It is still less efficient than government health care like the Veterans' Administration and Medicare. Overhead for Medicare is 3%. Private health insurance can't come near that. Big government is da bomb!

Overhead in the individual market is often substantially higher than 20%, and in some cases above 30%. Private insurance overhead and profit, on average, fluctuates between 12% and 14% nationally. This figure is somewhat lower than the 16-20% at many of the big insurers because it includes self-insured plans of many big employers that have overhead of about 6-7%. Bigger is better when it comes to insurance pools, which is why WE SHOULD ALL HAVE MEDICARE FROM BIRTH ON.

BeantownBill and charliefoxtrot. Elizabeth Warren, no worries I'm a fan. With a Volcano vaporizer in the oval office you can consider the war on drugs over. My green party will be a lot more fun.

I've really no problem with Jill Stein and the greens except that I'm concerned they don't have the stones to get the job done. One has to break eggs to make an omelet, hence my candidacy.

Fish or cut bait. A president needs to do serious fishin. Defending the constitution should never be a passive job. We don't want any pussies for president, we already have one of those.

k-dog said: "One has to break eggs to make an omelet, hence my candidacy."

----------------

So, do you have the stones to debate Jill Stein? Just say the word, and I can start work on setting up that debate. What part of the country would be most convenient for you, k-dog?

"Wealth destruction for the first world is moving forward. Don't think Ron Paul is going to change this."

He is sure not going to be able to do it alone.

E. said: "anyone opposed to the Mo' Money party will either never get any legislation passed or will be ASSASSINATED. Sigh."

=================

Of the current crop of presidential candidates, only two have been threatened with assassination: Obama and Cain. Obama was actually shot at. What do those two candidates have in common, different from the others?

Speaking of Cain, he had a campaign appearance yesterday in Tulsa, two days after "suspending" his campaign.

"For those that wondered about the decision, it was really pretty simple, folks," he said. "Family is first. Family first. It wasn't that I didn't want to fight, because I am still going to fight. I am just going to fight a different way." He said his spirit to change Washington, D.C., has been ignited.

CORRECTION

Speaking of Cain, he had a campaign appearance yesterday in Oklahoma City

He is sure not going to be able to do it alone.

====================

Not wealth destruction, but he will achieve health destruction. He has already voted against health care bills for children, for senior citizens, and for veterans.

"Of the current crop of presidential candidates, only two have been threatened with assassination: Obama and Cain. Obama was actually shot at. What do those two candidates have in common, different from the others?"
-asoka., to E-

Let's see, the US has had 4 presidents assassinated, none were black. Plus, it's unlikely that only Cain and Obama are the ONLY ones of the current crop to have death threats against them.

Death threats - sadly - are quite common against people in the US, especially against those in public life.

Asoka. does demonstrate to CFN that he can still find new notes - on his One String Guitar of Racial Grievance, though.

"Wealth destruction for the first world is moving forward. Don't think Ron Paul is going to change this." -lbend-

With all due respect, what's your alternative, Lbend?

At least Ron Paul would make some noise and try to do the right things. And a president has the pulpit to make a LOT of noise.

I don't see Obama, Romney, or Gingrich as even trying to do the right things.

-------------------------
It's interesting that Gingrich is moving up rapidly in the polls, now. What that says about Republican primary voters is not flattering.

With all due respect P2C,
I don't think RP has all the answers at all. He is also against the public sector and thinks that if you don't have the money for health ins. you too should die. Not quite sure what he thinks of our trade agreements and the top ceos making money on the trade imbalances and currency manipulations.

He's good at calling out the machinations for unending war, privatized contracting and the FED.
Those are good discussions to have.

ps. RE: Newt:

The Republican party is lost. They have an unworkable ideology and they are too extreme. They better start educating themselves before we are taken to 3rd world status.

Gingrich is so bad that Joe Scarborough is warning is viewers about this nut-case! Get ready for a real civics war-civil war if this guy gets in.

"PC, why this conversion? You were in the fascist imperialist camp for so long, what changed your mind?" -mika-

You're going to have to elaborate on this Mika.
-----------------
Now - if Ron Paul comes out railing against the Vatican - I will publicly begin to sing your praises as the great all-knowing and all-seeing Mika.

"Not wealth destruction, but he will achieve health destruction."

I guess you would prefer Newt, a big goverment advocate, like yourself. He has no interest shrinking the size of government. He is part of the problem. He helped repeal Glass Steagall, He was for the TARP bailouts. He is for illegal wars for Israeli and torture. He is for the patriot act and carbon taxes. He stands for everything UN-American. He does not stand for individual liberty. He call for open border and not enforcing immigration laws. The only way he can surge in the polls is try to talk like Ron Paul. Newt is no Ron Paul and he is definitely not Thomas Jefferson. Newt does not talk about shrinking the size of government or eliminating the IRS. He only talks about tweaking the system but not reducing the size and power of big centralized goverment.

Asoka. does demonstrate to CFN that he can still find new notes - on his One String Guitar of Racial Grievance, though.

======================

I will destroy my one string guitar of racial grievance, smash it and squirt lighter fluid on it and burn it, never to be used again, if you will destroy your one-string immigration guitar. Deal?

Well, yes, Newt would be my candidate of choice against Stein.

But I do want to wait and hear what Pelosi has to say about Newt. Pelosi investigated Newt for a year before Newt was reprimanded, forced out of congress and made to pay a $300,000 fine.

"With all due respect P2C,
I don't think RP has all the answers at all."
-lbend-

I actually do have a lot of respect for you and your ideas, lbend.

But Ratigan and Martenson aren't on the ballot.

So, my question are:
1. What do we do about it?
2. Who do we vote for who has a shot?
3. If I'm buying what you're selling - then how do we move the discussion forward?

4. What's the harm of trying to get Ron Paul in there for a term? And again, who or what is a better alternative to RP?

Osho? Osho? Osho?

Who the f--k id Osho?

I consider myself pretty well read and never came across a character named Oho!

A sci-fi protagonist?

One of these bullshitters with a rag on his head and long beard, sitting crosslegged, espousing some bullshit Eastern Religion to gullible and naive white college students, at the same time imploring them to write him (OSHO) a sizeable check?

Somebody please enlighten me about 'Osho"

On a different matter, it looks like the price Brent Crude and 'ordinary' crude is about to converge at about $105.00 per barrel. Is there any significance to that? Or doesn't it matter?

--WSP7

Asoka - how do you stand on my proposal to cede Hawaii to Japan?
-------------------------------------
CHARLIE DON'T SURF!

"If I'm buying what you're selling - then how do we move the discussion forward?"

If I might intercede - renounce loudly the idea that *RP is unelectable* that is being fed to all of you by the very system that He is trying, almost single-handedly to restore.

be careful or Vlad will accuse you of mixing up the first letters of your name.

Ron Paul is a slippery eel. He has a website, the "Daily Paul," that says it is inspired by Ron Paul, but it has this fine print: "Content on the Daily Paul is the opinion of the original poster, not necessarily of the Daily Paul, its owner, moderators or Ron Paul." That is one way to get your ideas out without taking any personal responsibility for them.

Anyway, on the Daily Paul is this:

Vatican Calls for 'Central World Bank' to Be Set Up

The Vatican called on Monday for the establishment of a "global public authority" and a "central world bank" to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises.

Seems Ron Paul might not be in favor of such Vatican activity. Any day now we could hear Ron Paul rail against the Vatican, if he has the courage of his convictions.

I doubt it, though. He is just another Republican politician, voting 83% of the time with the Republican majority.

I agree. Paul would be stonewalled by BOTH parties because with PAC money electing and running our government, anyone opposed to the Mo' Money party will either never get any legislation passed or will be ASSASSINATED. Sigh.
-------------------------------------
See there! I knew you could find that dark cloud. Don't worry about it, you'll probably get cancer anyway.

"I will destroy my one string guitar of racial grievance, smash it and squirt lighter fluid on it and burn it," -asoka.-

Go ahead, a. You are the cosmic joke, not me.

"We need negative population growth in the United States." -asoka.-

Hey Asoka I understand Nancy Pelosi herself is under investigation for sweetheart deals with her mutl-millionaire husband, along with Maxine Water, Charles Rangel and the rest of that congressional, hypocritical, democrat scum.

--WSP7

LB and E. (and a select few others),
Thanks for bringing us back around to the topic o' the week!

(The distractionary bullshittery on this blog is getting thicker and deeper with each passing week. I believe it's because the times are getting more dire and we're being discouraged from thinking critically in those directions. It's damn nearly an exact parallel; ain't that interesting? Is this truly a "dangerous" blog in some eyes and minds? I fuggin' hope so, 'cause we're gonna be having it out, one way or another. The only way out is through. BTW, I wouldn't worry overmuch about the laddie and his ilk. I've had some poking around done, and these "people" are so knee-jerk that they're gonna be the first froggies to jump to their "agenda" when the disgruntling coalesces. Know what that makes them? Easy targets; 'nuff said.)

Big French Revolution fan, eh? They're bringing back the guilotine I hear - you're going to have alot of fun watching the heads roll on TV. Dale will get to watch it in person.
---------------------------------
Aiii...Yeahhhhh! He flicks the blood from his Katana as he momentarily admires the hamon.

Oppps....now you went and activated my 16th century samurai warrior fantasy.

WSP7, nobody knows who Osho is. He lived during the time of Ronald Reagan. You've heard of Reagan?

Well, Osho told a lot of jokes about Reagan:

http://www.oshojokes.net/osho_jokes_ronaldreagan.htm

I was with Osho from 1982 until his death in 1990. Never asked for a check or a cash donation. Gave me some money though.

was with Osho from 1982 until his death in 1990. Never asked for a check or a cash donation. Gave me some money though.
-------------------------------------
Well....that explains why you were hanging around anyway.

Gotta go...just can't take ya'll seriously this morning.

Procon said: "We need negative population growth in the United States." -asoka.-

=================

CORRECTION

"We need negative GLOBAL population growth." -asoka.-

That and the jokes and laughter.

Thanks for the link, prog. I'm glad that someone is paying drug addicts to sterilize themselves.

It's a start.

Many years ago, two stray cats came and had litters at my house. Afterwards, I took them both and had them fixed, and then let them go again.

It's hard enough to be a stray without having babies to care for, but I didn't want to take them to a pound and have them killed.

I honestly don't care if someone chooses to be a drug addict or an alcoholic. It's a free country. (Sarcasm alert).

But don't bring kids into the world if you're an addict.

On the other hand, when I worked in the nursery in San Jose during the 80s, when the CIA was pouring cocaine into the US, many babies were taken from their mothers who weren't drug addicts.
It was very wrong.

There was a belief that taking cocaine would put you into labor, much like taking castor oil in an earlier generation. No one ever got their baby taken from them for drinking castor oil, though.

It only happened in the poor part of town, though. When I went and worked per diem in the rich part, they didn't do the drug testing on the newborns.

Absalom,
Hey, don't blame ME. ;o)

Seriously though, when I saw that blithering fucking idiot being prep'ed for prez'dint in 1999, the alarm bells (and I mean ALL of 'em) went off, big-time. I ain't been right since, I tells ya!

My frayed psyche now [specifically] searches out views that contradict the official narrative, and "the way it really is" often resides somewhere between the extremes. (Sometimes it IS opposite of officialdom, but I remind myself that it's MY OPINION that puts such a heavy slant on things, and all the "facts" would, collectively, point to something of a lot more subtlety.)

I also thank those here for their considered opinion and links to thoughtful treatises on our predicaments. (The rest o' yez kin shit in yer hat and wear it. ;o)

Ps. K-dawg for Supreme Emperor! (Soon as I get that pin spinnin', I'll simply "make it so".)

There are people here who insist on believing the official conspiracy theory, CFT, but I am one of those who refuses to swallow such utter nonsense.

So don't worry, you're not alone.

So, do you have the stones to debate Jill Stein?

Yes

Just say the word, and I can start work on setting up that debate.

As we actually agree on principle but mostly differ in approach I think a friendly radio talk show chat would be more appropriate for the two of us.

The advantage of k-dog is that he is not a politician. I'm just somebody with sufficient brainpower (the bar being rather low you know) who would take the job really seriously and spend his four years getting most everybody happy and moving in a good direction and that's it.

I never concerned myself with this before but......... Hang on a minute I'm walking down to the stream.

k-dog looks at reflection.

I'm some kind of Border Collie mix, will that do?

What part of the country would be most convenient for you, k-dog?

Cascadia

Ozone said: "The only way out is through."

================

Well said, ozone. But you put too much fucking importance on physical survival, especially considering in a hundred year we all be dead anyway!

Nothing special about this planet, like I said earlier this week. Now NASA gone and discovered a new planet, 72 degrees, with water.

A newly discovered planet is eerily similar to Earth and is sitting outside our solar system in what seems to be the ideal place for life, except for one hitch. It’s a bit too big.

The planet is smack in the middle of what astronomers call the Goldilocks zone, that hard to find place that’s not too hot, not too cold, where water, which is essential for life, doesn’t freeze or boil. And it has a shopping mall-like surface temperature of near 72 degrees, scientists say.

These are not the only two planets with perfect temperature ranges and water for life. We just haven't found the others yet.

Yeah, yeah. Did you have to walk 3 miles in the snow to get there, also?

People are always complaining that the younger generation has it better than they did.

Don't worry, this generation is screwed, as you point out later in your bipolar post.

Personally, I'm not happy about it.

k-dog said: Cascadia

=================

Would 1090 AM KPTK Seattle be OK? It's located in the Queen Anne neighborhood on Dexter.

You must not know any young people, ixnomor.

I know NO young person who isn't struggling to make a living and pay the rent. McMansions? What are you talking about?

As for my son, I pointed out that I was against him buying a car, but he works in an industrial park with no housing nearby.

So he paid cash for a used car.

1000 Dexter Avenue North, Suite 100

I live 17 miles away from there, works for me.

Look what happened to Mexico when they let American settlers live there. They up and took half the country.

Or did you not know that Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico used to be Mexico?

Seriously, Buck? You really think that a provision which cuts into the profits of insurance companies is going to somehow lead to single payer health care?

Guess what? On the ground, in the actual health care for-profit industry? They are instituting speed-ups and firings.

I am an absolutist on many things. I don't think that reforming the worst excesses of capitalism works.

But now you're talking about my job. So I am paying attention. And the Health Insurance Enrichment Act is No Child Left Behind, for hospitals.

LOL!
Good deal.
Now let's just see how much pull this [professional] contrarian, greasily narcissistic pud-gazer has got! (Amongst all the other lies, bloviations and self-aggrandizement.)

I don't think there'll be much breath bated in waiting for [honest] results. I can't quite think of a good reason why she'd travel all the way there from Lexington, MA, but I'd bet you'd get better results from asking her yourself, rather than have a follower of multiple cults be the go-between. ;o)

Important update:

"The ICM Registry has decided to open up the web and has made the .XXX domain available to all.

Domain names are available on a (snigger) first come, first served basis and there are approximately 100,000 domains which have gone live."

:D

I'm all for voting for Ron Paul in the primaries, so that Obama has to face an anti-war, pro-civil liberties candidate.

But in the general election? That's just crazy!

Vote for Jill Stein in the general election.

She's anti-war, pro civil-liberties and pro-environment.

Plus, she's for legalizing marijuana.

You may have missed this Keiser report, lbendet.

Iceland did good in refusing the bank bailouts, but those sneaky bastards have a way of escaping justice.

http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-218-max-keiser/

In a world of no laws, those blood-suckers will always win. It's set-up whre they can never lose. That's why the Reps sound so idiotic when they espouse the "free mahhhhket".

And speaking of Keiser....

Corzine didn't break any laws. I repeat, did not break any laws…

He's actually a very nice fellow according to someone on Facebook today(no friend of mine).

OK, so Keiser's guest, Josh Brown of the ReformedBroker.com tells the tales of the newest ponzi schemes for the social media and internet stock options. Get ready for Facebook and Goupon….

They also discuss Corzine:

So Corzine was godfathered--I mean grandfathered into a position to run MF Global without an updated license, see.
He didn't break any laws, see.
There was a loophole in place where clients funds could be co-mingled with the company's, see.
What are you going to do about it if you lost money, like Celente, see….

Asoka,

As far as population growth and jobless Americans being submerged in a sea of illegals, see this:

Democrats Dare Not “Abandon” the White Working Class. RealClearPolitics

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/12/links-12611.html

The score now stands at Corn Borers 1- Monsanto 0

http://wamu.org/news/11/12/05/insects_find_crack_in_biotech_corns_armor

I guess the wizards at Monsanto forgot to take evolution into account.

Neutrino Speed Solved.

Use a scissor to have an idea. Look at the intersection between the two blades, that intersection moves, even though it appears that no particle is associated with it (the relationship moves), but in particle physics, particles being waves, an imaginary intersection or angle becomes a real particle.

Take 2 sheets of paper and slide them across each other (over each other) at a constant velocity "V1", if the angles "A" at the borders of the sheets is 90 degrees, the intersection between the 2 borders, the intersection itself "S" has a velocity of zero. If you change the angle between the 2 sheets and make it different from 90 degrees, the intersection will move as the 2 sheets slide across each other; in other words the intersection will move at a related but different constant velocity "V2". The faster the 2 sheets of paper move, slide across each other, the faster the velocity of the the intersection "S" between the 2 sheets moves.

So if you move the 2 sheets at a fast enough velocity "V1" but less than the velocity of light and the angle "A" between the 2 sheets is small enough, the velocity "V2" of the intersection "S" will move faster than light.

Since the neutrino is probably just the intersection between 2 wave fronts colliding at a given angle (or something similar), hence the neutrino goes faster than light.

---------------- | ----- /
---------------- | ---- /
--- V1 -------> | --- /
---------------- | -- /
---------------- | - /
---------------- | /
S is here -----> S

V2 is the velocity of S as it moves up.


So the neutrino speed is faster than light, it is solved.

Wrong tab, the single object called the Neutrino does go faster than light, it is the intersection between 2 wave fronts, and this intersection becomes a real object, a real particle in particle physics. It is not an artifact, it is the discovery that faster than light particles do exist, and in fact by changing the angle between the pieces of paper (akin to the blades of a scissor) and the speed the two pieces of paper slide across each other, you can have in infinite number of possible velocities faster than light, nay, you can have any velocity, just make the papers slide very fast and the angle between them very small and follow the intersection.

So this intersection is a geometrical relationship, but this becomes real matter since in quantum mechanics and particle physics, particles are both waves and point like, they are both real and virtual, and most of all, the "it is the bit", only the information is real, the relationships are real, the particles and mass and all else are just a proxy, a description of ghosts, only the Information is Matter, Mass Energy is Information revealed, observed, condensed into real entities.

Only Information and Information Relationships exist, all else is a fairy tale.

And more so, it is not limited to neutrinos only but to all particles and all wave fields: any collision between two wavefronts creates a "soliton", or a standing wave that can go faster than light by any degree. Heck just think of all of the electromagnetic waves that are colliding all at different angles, all the wavefronts at different angles, all creating solitons and standing waves and crest waves as in the two waves adding up at certain points and traveling along the intersection and go faster than light, nay, even much faster.

So hence, the doors into time travel, both into the past and into the future are also open. Have a nice trip.

So, as with all correct and elegant theories, this discovery also Solves the Time Travel Problem, as it is 100 % possible now with this discovery.

nameta9
Philosopher

Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

I won't develop a full theory (who on earth is capable anyways ?), but you can imagine that the sliding pieces of paper could also be sliding monolithic slabs of geometry in space creating particles. Time travel through the relativity theories I guess. Anyways some good physicist could create a full blown coherent theory maybe...

ChristianOverman wrote:... just like the Innuit assupmed the northern lights were spirits, but could predict their behavior off their mythology damn well..... doesn't make it right, just accurate in terms of being useful. We have a useful science, but not necessarily a correct one.


But that is all we have and all we will ever have: theories, formulas, narratives, instruments, languages, etc. that are ALL ACCURATE IN TERMS OF BEING USEFUL. EXACTLY.

Science, nay, all of our constructions are always and only within a system of "Intentionality of Use", of what we will do with the theories, ideas, whatever. And most theories simply serve the function of creating other newer theories, are simply a narrative upon itself in an imaginary world that never ends, maybe even only simply to pass time, as something to let time pass.

There is no "right", no absolute "correct": there is no view from "nowhere", there is only our subjectivity, and our arbitrary design that designs all else, no matter how hard we try to fool ourselves into thinking we are "objective"....

The laws of physics are a function of the observer: the design of the observer determines the design of the laws of physics. The design of the observer reflects the design of the laws of physics. The laws of physics only make sense to a given arbitrary observer and no other different kind of observer. How does the world look for an ant ? what are the "laws of physics" for an ant ? what are the laws of physics for a skyscraper ? How does the world look to that combination of matter ? (Imagining that they can observe the world somehow) and so on, how is the world with a modifed brain containing a car engine at full throttle, or how does the world appear, and what laws of physics does the observer use/discover if it is an Atom Bomb exploding (imagining the connections, if only instantaneously, that allow information processing given that maybe 10-40 seconds could be an hour for the Atom bomb brain).

And so the view fom "nowhere" would have to be a linear combination of every conceivable observer, designed in every conceivable way, a combinational explosion. And even then, the view would always be partial: a brain of an ant plus that of an Atom Bomb is different from a brain of a car engine plus a skyscraper (only using 2 examples of brains, observers). So which is the real - "objective" brain ? there is none, they are all arbitrary, the laws of physics are arbitrary.

With regards to:

"You have to remember, the mathematics they used was largely developed back during the times of older, inferior theories- and it seems highly ineffectual to recognizing 'truth' or 'not truth' beyond it has a pretty mnemonic aesthetics and makes the mathematician excitable when they look at the new formula. " "Most of us here can't do the math."

Also, mathematics is greatly overrated in physics: the three body problem has no analytical solution (an equation having a precise formula as a solution and not a numerical approximation), and almost all problems in physics must be performed numerically on supercomputers executing billions of operations a second: the very fact that we can only approximate the solutions with billions of calculations is a declaration of defeat for the entire model of mathematics in physics, if even only partially.

The formulas and symbols, the sequence of symbols is a one to one correspondence between relationships, mostly imagined and invented, but some somewhat true, so if you want even more abstract relationships, just invent even more indirect references,like the square root of the square root with no number inside, the manipulation of words mathematically but with unknown meanings etc. like space plus the square root of entity minus void, etc.

If my campaign takes off there are so many smart people I get to talk to I'll have to start a list.

I hope something happens.

k-dog pants

So White don't have the right to continue to exist?

What Bastards are you talking about - just the Whites ones who have betrayed us? Or also the Jewish ones who brought the Black Slaves here? Or the Black ones who are killing Whites in South Africa? (Go to genocide watch, don't bother with Amnesty International - they're globo scum now).

Now why aren't the American Blacks, who are supposedly so against Black slavery, interested in ending Black slavery in Africa? Is it because it's not Whites to blame? Now Charlie, slow down and think: is that very nice? To be anti-White instead of being pro-Black? Kind of a negative approach to life, eh?

Your paradigm of all the good people in the world being against the Rich White Bastards is simply Communist Propaganda. It's terribly dangerous since all the other Peoples are not turning agains their Elite - just our's. And "our" Elite aren't - they're in on it too. It's universal disarmament: White Elites bad, therefore flood White Nations with 3rd Worlders. What? What kind of sense does that make? That doesn't punish them, but us.

In terms of American Blacks: Liberals and Blacks are talking apples and oranges with each other. You get together with them at rallies and talk about Peace and Love but what they hear is Black Empowerment. That's not the same thing. I hope you understand at least that much.


Anyways asoka is right, the same doomster predictions over and over, like a flat tire: we are goin to mars, the world is becoming richer everyday, black friday sold billions, get over it and hate nature.

The Atom Bomb brain stuff was from:

http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177441

http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177509

Where is my noble prize ?

Great! Yes, that's the place. Jill is in California right now, but she does not need to be physically in Seattle. The whole thing can be done via telephone interview with a conference call involving you, Jill, and the KPTK person.

Ozone is right that I should not be the intermediary. You are going to have to prove you have stones and do the following: contact the Jill Stein campaign at this web site:

http://www.jillstein.org/volunteerdetail

Scroll down to "Other ideas" and explain you are a presidential candidate and you want to debate Jill on KPTK in Seattle. Once you have done that and get a positive reply we can contact KPTK. Let me know. Jill is a nominee to become the Green Party candidate and will be glad to have the publicity.

Wow! I'm watching Democracy Now, and the US is accusing Russia of rigged elections.

There is no end to the straight-faced hypocrisy of Hilary Clinton, Barack Obama, and the rest of the slimy gang of top-feeders in the US government.

AND- Amy Goodman is reporting with a straight face that "mass" demonstrations" of 5,000 people led to 300 arrests.

So the United States, after an in-your-face stolen election in 2000, switched to computerized voting machines, to which there is no recount possible. Still, in 2004, the exit polls showed that this election, also, was stolen. Until they were changed to reflect the announced results.

No problem, the US talking heads promptly announced that exit polls were unreliable, against all previous evidence.

Then, 2 weeks later, they announced that exit polls were gold standard, and that the election in the Ukraine had been stolen. No reference was made to the statements made two weeks earlier. They were far down the memory hole.

The exit poll problem was dealt with by stopping the announcement of exit polls.

The US is now dealing with Occupy Movements, thousands of people coming together to protest the outrageous economic inequality in the US.

They are met with thousands of riot police, heavily armed and violent at times. Protestors have been beaten, arrested, and their private property destroyed.

Now the US political class has the unmitigated gall to pontificate about the Russian election!!!

While we sit and argue about possible Republican candidates for the job of top Puppet of the US ruling class, the ground is being laid for WW3.

War, as George Bush pointed out, is the best way for the US to get out of the economic predicament it's in.

And shame on Amy Goodman, for regurgitating the US line. I was disgusted by the way she parroted the US line on Libya, where the US and NATO, along with their Al Queada allies, bombed the hell out of civilians, attacking water and food supplies, bombing hospitals, laying siege to a city, and brutally murdering thousands of people, including the leader. The infrastructure and civil society of that country was destroyed, just like that of Yugoslavia and Iraq.

The US calls this "bringing democracy".

And people can look at our rigged elections, our imperious government, our impoverished people, our overflowing prisons, and our heavily armed police state, to see what democracy means to Americans.

This Fred's for you, wage.
http://www.fredoneverything.net/Gates.shtml
“Intelligence” agencies are moral dirt, hated the world over for torture, murder, and destabilization of countries leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths. The KGB, Mossad, CIA, STASI, SAVAK—they’re all the same. A man who presides over torture and murder should not speak of decency. He has none."
-fred reed-

Gates is gone, but the parade continues.

What? You arrange it but I do all the arranging how does this work?

How is anybody supposed to know who I am without an introduction unless they read CFN. This is not about having the stones. You need to pony up Asoka I'll call the station when I know they are expecting my call.

BT resistance, it was only a matter of time. Michael Pollan warned about this in 'The Botany of Desire' I'll be looking to him to help make agriculture sustainable. Currently it's not.

Yet you want Amnesty - probaby what Mika is praising you for. You've gone full circle back to where you were before - see the power of the Media? Close your eyes and ears - just watch what comes up. You don't need the Media outside, they're inside you now.

Check this out: a tiny Church voted to ban interacial marriage by a vote of 9 to 6. This is international news. THAT's the story - not national but international. Do you see how seriously the world takes wiping out Whites? Do you think if a Church in Africa made a similar decison about Blacks and Chinese that it would get similar coverage?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069738/Gulnare-Free-Will-Baptist-Church-forced-throw-ban-interracial-couples.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

I gave an inch last week about the skin heads and you want off on a tear and tried to take a yard by raving about "hate" and Amren etc. Classic Liberal Enemy behavior. None of our rights mean anything if we can't hate. The Elite want to get inside our heads and judge us. They have no such right yet you grant it to them.

You may be unhappy to know that one of the Amren Presenters, Dr Yeagley, also know as Bad Eagle, has won a settlement against one of the chief thugs, an ex policeman involved in all kinds of anti White activities, sinister to the max.

Anti Racism is just a code word for Anti White.

Powerful writing, prog, thank you. Yeah, what he said! To cynically use the misery of the wounded to stop the public from the truth is despicable.

It isn't just the D corporate party that oozes hypocrisy and lies, of course. The R's are just as bad. It's just that we are now nominally ruled by the D's.

It is more and more apparent that you MUST be a sociopath to serve in the top executive, legislative or judicial branches of government, or work in the media.

Ummm, if you cannot arrange a simple radio interview without my help ... well, then maybe the presidency is a bit of an overreach?

As W was always telling us... being president is "hard work" ... you sure you're up to this?

When Occupiers are trampled, beaten, pepper-spayed and arrested, and their personal property destroyed, we are told that it is because of health and safety concerns.

The Black Friday incidents, juxtaposed against the ongoing Occupy movements, exposed that common excuse as the farce that it is.

Although Black Friday has a recent history of violence and a trampling death, no move was made to stop people from camping out on private property for days, (potentially blocking entrances). There were no squadrons of riot police sent to beat and pepper spray campers. New incidents of violence this year produced no calls for banning of Black Friday next year.

And I can guarantee, if such calls were made, that there would be unanimous opposition from the talking heads, from Fox on down. We would hear a lot of talk about freedom, freedom to choose risk, and freedom in general. Black Friday shoppers would be compared to those at Valley Forge and the Freedom Riders. The numbers trampled to death, shot or stabbed, would be favorably compared with the numbers not trampled to death, shot or stabbed.

Yeah, telling you to do what you said you were going to do is hard work. I agree.

And not only would WW3 reset the economy, distract from tyranny, and decrease the population, nuclear winter would cancel out global warming.

Yep. It's on.

Ozone,

I've voted for president twice now, and after the latest disaster and my new found big-picture perspective, I know it doesn't make one bit of difference who sits in the oval office. All you get is just a different PR image with the new face. I'm astonished that anyone with a brain still thinks in terms of partisan ideology. I'm also sort of puzzled why Ron Paul is on the tip of a few tongues. I don't see that he as any chance at nomination, let alone the big seat. I think Ron Paul knows that too, but he like every other politician I've seen has some sort of hero complex. His ideas are pretty short sighted anyhow.

Right now, I only look for the domino effect leading to either a real war with countries capable of striking here, and/or, some huge economic event that brings the structure to it's knees. Considering JHK's and others recognition that the likes of Corzine will never meet justice, and the Fed will just continue to shuffle fake money to disappear economic collapse, WW III seems the only logical eventuality.

Shitty,

ABSALOM

Gure Teg Bahadur was tortured and ultimately put to death for refusing to accept Islam. This only stiffened the resolve ofthe Sikhs to fight. If not for Muslim oppression, Sikhism probably wouldn't have become a group aspiring for Nation hood, but rather a Brotherhood like the Sufis.

Tegmark said: "Anyways asoka is right, the same doomster predictions over and over..."

============

Of course I am right. I am just introducing contrarian facts and information to keep 'em honest.

Reading about how bad things are, or imagining that things are worse than we can even imagine ... that is the way CFN entertains itself. There is no harm in it. It is all just divine play. A cosmic joke.

A competent chief executive would see to it that any fields of Monsanto genetically modified corn now growing be destroyed immediately before the BT resistant corn borer population can get a foothold.

Obama done anything yet?

Vlad, you are a bit late to the party. We were discussing the 21st century.

Teg Bahadur lived from 1621 to 1675.

Yes, Obama has done something.

One of his many Monsanto appointees approved GMO alfalfa.

Is there a list of how many Goldman Sachs and how many Monsanto employees Obama has? Which contributed more people to the Obama administration?

Inquiring minds want to know.

The Occupy Movement is responsible for several deaths - will you try to tell the Truth now and then? Tea Party: zero. You people have learned nothing from the 60's. You lost the people then thru your radicalism and hatred, and you've done it again.

And you expect us to trust you so you can set up your People's Courts? And with your White Men to the back of the line? And all the hand signals are just So gay.

World War Three would only cancel out global warming for three years and that's not good enough. As president I would take war off the table as a solution to any of the nation's problems. Besides not being a good deal war is just plain wrong.

Yep. It's on

==============

Do you think they will start it in December? Remember how Nixon bombed civilian population centers at Christmas, when people were distracted opening their presents? Or do you think they will time it more in tune with the election cycle in 2012? We are just puppets they don't care about. Millions are going to die. The internet may go away. It will be more terrible than we can imagine.

Certain 'groups' large ones, and not so bright ones, are living a story line. and it ends with
armageddon. they are creating it, and want it to happen. makes then 'right'.

who knows.

Show me where the Muslims have repented for this deed - or all the other crimes against the Sikhs?

Religion of Peace? Dude what is wrong with you?

k-dog, now I know you are not a serious candidate. You cannot announce ahead of time that you are taking war off the table. You some kind of pacifist? What do you mean war is just plain wrong? What about Hitler? What about the evil jihadists that Mika has warned us about? What about the evil Blacks Vlad has told us about and the terrorists, and the immigrants ProCon is always warning us about. It is a dangerous world. You cannot take anything off the table... unless you, like Cain, are just doing this as performance art.

Oh Gawwwwd no, he's got Monsanto appointees????

Then give the man four more years and the embalming fluid industry is going to be in serious trouble.

I can show you five hundred apologies, five hundred statements from Muslim organizations and Imams condemning violence. Violence is antithetical to Islam because Islam is a religion of peace. Anyone committing violence is not a Muslim. Here is just one example of an apology:

http://shevarim.com/2011/08/10/pakistani-muslim-leaders-apologize-for-anti-christian-violence/

I can take war off the table without taking defense off the table, by jingo.

As to being a serious candidate I'll be as serious as people want me to be. Give this dog his day and I'll use it well.

I admit that I can't really guess what they have in mind.

They are more evil than I can imagine.

One of my favorite sayings is, No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.

Turkle,
You ever listen to that thing with Alan Wallace?

"Money is Everything."

I know someone who believes this wholeheartedly.
and he doesn't share. Or spend. But has it.

I don't really understand about Money.
But it can't be Everything.
I suppose it is if you don't have much.

Wage, the amount of suffering they cause is incalculable ... and it just seems to be increasing. You are doing what you can in the workplace, through your protests, your radio station, and voting Green Party. Still, at times, when faced with so much evil the Dorothy Day/Daniel Berrigan/Henry David Thoreau questions comes up: what are you doing out of jail? The OWS and 350.org are examples of mass civil disobedience, of willingly going to jail because that is the best way to provide testimony against the evil of the regime. I have always admired the Quakers in that way and many of my Quaker friends have gone to jail for their simple practice of SPEAKING TRUTH TO POWER including several friends who simply refused to become part of the military during WWII. There were many pacifists who were imprisoned during both WWI and WWII. What will we do during WWIII to make our statement against war?

Wage, you know I am nonviolent and have been all my life. I was a CO during Vietnam. I do not believe killing people is a solution. So I don't share the sentiment of an email I recently received because I will have nothing to do with guns or bullets. But I thought I would share it with you since you are in health care:

"So you're a sick senior citizen and the government says there is no nursing home available for you, what do you do?

Our plan gives anyone 65 years or older a gun and 4 bullets. You are allowed to shoot four Congressmen.

Of course, this means you will be sent to prison where you will get three meals a day, a roof over your head, central heating, air conditioning and all the health care you need! Need new teeth? No problem. Need glasses? That's great. Need a new hip, knees, kidney, lungs or heart? They're all covered. And, as an added bonus, your kids can come and visit you as often as they do now.

And who will be paying for all of this? It's the same government that just told you that you they cannot afford for you to go into a home.

Plus, because you are a prisoner, you don't have to pay any income taxes anymore.

Is this a great country or what?"

Well, The Great Game is on. Russia is arming Syria and China is backing Iran. It's the same old proxy war we had during the Cold war when we were all arming the Middle East--nothing like 3rd world countries armed in contemporary warfare.

I think there are disparate aims involved here to make certain people happy, but ultimately it is a disaster capitalistic paradigm no matter how it ends up.

Oh and don't forget the oil, now.

A small coterie owning all the world's wealth and resources.--not so interested in governing as I've said before.

Your vote counts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKguI0NFek

A little levity for fellow CFNers today.

ABSALOM

ABS, that was a good spot. Too bad the great one is not with us anymore. According to him I'm supposed to be at the mall buying shoes with blinking lights on them right now. I'd better get going.

Here's another dog. Before you run to the mall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OnWnwwxNPA&feature=related

ABS

Cosmic Evil at work: S1867 will enable the goverment to detain Americans on American soil indefinitely. Drafted in secret by Levin an McCain, it turns America into part of the "battlefield" in the war against "terror". Their words not mind.

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/senators-demand-military-lock-american-citizens-battlefield-they-define-being

O'Rielly is saying its a three way race, but RP will not get the nomination.

Without RP supporters Barry will win again just as last time because Paul advocates will not compromise by picking evil.

How many here will admit that they secretly want RP to make a third-party move and give the office back to O?

"How many here will admit that they secretly want RP to make a third-party move and give the office back to O?" -md-

Not me, MD. I hate to see Paul take the blame for that. I suspect BO is going to win, anyway - no matter what we do. And from the tenor of the times, at least on CFN - even if RP beat BO in the general election - those Deibold Machines would just give the thing to BO The Corporatist, anyway.

BO's probably marginally better than Gingrich and probably no worse than Romney, IMO.

And the idea that RP will single-handedly take the country back to 1900's Constitutional Standards - is pretty bizarre.

I say give RP the chance. But that's just me.

On issues that matter - all of them say they want to secure the border. And BO's deporting more immigrants than BushII every thought about deporting.

I know I know, cars are evil. But what a waste of engineering. I admit I would love to rip up the road in one of these cars. Silly Japanese, super cars are for grown-ups! ;o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAtelRZCFWc

"BO's probably marginally better than Gingrich"

Marginally?

I've been hearing about Ron Paul for about 30 years now. He reminds me of William Jennings Bryant, a pacifist democrat who ran for president (and lost) at least 5 times. His foreign policy was very similar to Paul's: run away, give up, surrender! Bryant was Wilson's secretary of state and finally resigned when, after much provocation, Wilson brought us into the war against Germany. NKorea, Russia, Iran (to name just a few) would have a field day with a character like Paul. I'd even rather have Obama as President than Paul. At least Obama is willing to engage to outside world, the world beyond our borders.

--WSP7

I should say "to engage the outside world"

"Yet you want Amnesty - probaby what Mika is praising you for." -vlad-

Nope. I suspect Mika is "praising" me for supporting Ron Paul. And Vlad, you're getting as bad as asoka. - for reading minds and telling other posters what they believe.

I believe Mika is a little too interested in American political trivia for a genuine Israeli National - I'm not sure he's Jewish, either. He DOES hate the Vatican, though.

-----------------------
And I don't "want" amnesty, Vlad. But I can think in the real world. You're never going to get blanket deportation of illegals.

Eventually, though, LEGAL immigration numbers into the US will be reduced. It's inevitable, if you look forward enough years.

Probably, even, before the Sun expands into a Red Giant and cooks the Earth. Nobody is going to want to come here, then.

Howdy, Clusterfuckers!

Long time no see. And I'm missin' you folks. Been reading a lot though. Finished Ianto Evans' book "The Hand-Sculpted House," and I can't recommend it highly enough. Now I'm plowing through John Michael Greer's latest offering, "The Wealth of Nature: Economics as if Survival Mattered," and I have to say that this is a must-read for everyone here. He very elegantly answers several of the questions that pop up regularly around these hallowed halls. Exceptional. And fairly inexpensive too.

While you're waiting for your copy to arrive via the soon-to-be gutted USPS, however, feel free to take a gander at my latest offering at Small Batch Garden:

http://www.smallbatchgarden.blogspot.com/

It's called "All About the Trend," and speaks about the best ways I've figured out in the last four years for adapting to a world of declining concentrated energy. Not merely WHAT to do, it makes an attempt at sharing HOW to go about doing it, how humans can make sweeping changes in their lives, and make them stick.

Hope you cats enjoy it.
Namaste,
Tripp


Excellent stuff from C H Smith but, honestly, I don't even hear the wonderfully shrill voices of Kucinich or Sanders on the latest central banker follies. At some point, the few voices out there feel BEATEN DOWN by decades of ignorance. You have to have the persistence of Sisyphus to fight these people ... actually we need an ARMY of Sisyphean people to CONSTANTLY harang the government, especially their local representative to make an inch of progress.

Personally, I've been UNDERWHELMED by the amount of righteous indignation in the last week on this site about the latest bank machinations while, right under their feet, they and their neighbors are being hounded for pittances by banks and the IRS. It seems like the bulk of recent posts (with wonderful exceptions) are non sequiturs about particle physics, New Age theology, or the "battle of the races" which seems an irrelevancy when you see how many young White kids are trying to "out-ghetto" each other.

On the Internet, the bad definitely drives out the good because of Eleuthero's revised "Law of Large Numbers" i.e., "In a Dark Age, an initial above-average collective must devolve as their numbers grow larger". Recently, I've been contemplating another one of my multi-week disappearances until, say, New Year's Day.

I only visit now to see if you, Ozone, Bill, or a few other people have weighed in. However, you need a magnifying glass to find the jewels in the haystack.


E.

So which poison will it be in 2012? Ron Paul, Newt, Romney? Spoke with a relative over the phone last night and he informed me that his son, who is a paranoid schitzophrenic, is now in a psychiatric hospital due to his taking photographs on private property of a military base. Ironically, what pushed him over the edge was that this time he had been smoking weed. Apparently it (pot) does something to the brain's chemicals that increase the symptoms of schitzophrenia (sp?).

About now I'm wondering if I'm not afflicted with it as well. After reading Denninger today, as well as Elaine Supkis' blog, I've been wondering what the PTB have in store for us: Inflating what little money we have out of existence, WWIII, what with all of the "lecturing" we're giving to China, Russia, Iran, etc. Will we see some new Hitler type rise among the ash heap, challenging us to kill the inferiors ...fill in the blanks ...blacks, jews, gays, Mexicans, seniors?

Bottom line to my opening paragraph, my relative, a life long republican, fully supports Obama due to the fact that his hospitalized son, who is only 23, is still eligible to be on his health insurance policy until he's 26. We spoke briefly about the economy and he reassured me that all is well. Historically we've entered into recessions and come out of them just fine (his words). BTW, he just filed for unemployment (again), due to the fact that he is employed in the construction industry. That said, he seemed to have an "Asoka" like attitude that "it's all good!" At times I feel like pulling what's left of my hair straight out of my scalp.

hate Crimes and the 'Protected Classes':

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … drunk.html

"A gang of Muslim girls who repeatedly kicked a young woman in the head walked free from court after a judge heard they were 'not used to being drunk' because of their religion.

The group screamed 'kill the white slag' while kicks raining in on 22-year-old Rhea Page as she lay motionless on the ground, the court heard."

Contrast this to the Jailing of Emma West.

We currently are in the process of having the freedoms and financial and natural resources we've enjoyed stolen from us by an international cabal which has no regard for anyone; whose purpose is to obtain all the world's wealth and to maximize its power over humanity. The process has been occurring over a long period of time, but it now seems to be accelerating.

At present, the average American may suspect, but does not realize the extent to which his/her existence is controlled, as the illusion of freedom outshines the reality of constantly narrowing choices.

The issue is, what are we to do?

Only a few options are available:

1. Complain and bitch about our current situation.

2. Do nothing and accept reality and live what remains of our lives as we always have.

3. Do nothing but prepare for the worst as best we can.

4. Petition the US government to make the necessary changes.

5. Request the government to resign.

6. Through large public demonstrations, influence the congress and presidency to change course.

7. Vote out the president and congressmen and replace them with people who'll take us down the correct path.

8. Secede from the Union.

9. Violently overthrow the government with a 2nd revolution.

To my mind, these are the options are available to us, no matter how silly or ineffective some may appear. If anyone has different ideas, I'd like to hear them

So my last question is, what option(s) ought we take?

E.
I'm glad you read CHS. I copy his posts every day along w. Asia Times online. I really enjoy the writing of Pepe Escobar. If you like JHK, you'll like him as well--very hip, funny and great perception on what's happening.

Dylan Ratigan is doing good work in expressing his outrage every day on what the nature of this economic global beast. It's hard to believe this thing is going to continue in some new convolution, but we know it's going to crack under its own weight and if the middle class doesn't have discretionary spending it's game over for the system.

There's just so much you can siphon out of them if their jobs keep going to the cheapest labor.

re this site: I don't have time to go through all the posts and the ones about religion and race don't interest me. If I want to know about physics I'll check out sites and others sources, don't need to do that here.

I guess my world view is that I'd like to discuss something I can do rather than something I had no say in. Couldn't choose who my ancestors were.

There are people on this blog I look out for and focus on those posters. I do always look forward to reading your posts as well.

Enjoy your vacation from the blog and come back with a fresh head.

L.

You support the war mongers then. The Founders told us to stay home and mind our own business. Specifically told us no European Wars. The whole 20th Century was Un-American to the nth degree.

Isolationism? Just a slur word that means nothing. No one ever said no trade. We just want trade favorable to Us - which means tariffs of course.

Trump said the same to Greta Van Susterin the other day. And she knee jerkedly said "Trade War"! What a dummy. We've already had a trade war and lost. Our Elite sold us out for private profit.

This is the world Asoka and Prog are creating for us - one thru active advocacy and the other thru passive acceptance. At least the two Whites fought back a bit. The White girl got a few good kicks in on the Muslima laying on the ground. The guy seemed kind of restrained; kept holding his coat for some reason instead of just blasting on them.

The counsels of defeat. Glen Beck went on a rave the other day about the Black Woman who had 15 kids from three baby daddies. It's your responsibility he raved. We'll help, but it's your responsibility. In other words, she wins again. After recieving welfare for decades, people become incapable of shame. Their ego structure is incomprehensible to an ordinary White person. Glen doesn't get that and neither do you.

How to deal with this women? Take her kids away and take the next one away too. I hesitiate to say forced sterilization - rather give her incentives to self sterilize and stop rewarding her for having babies. How to deal with the Illegals? Much easier since they have no rights here: turn of their utilities and stop all checks. They'll flee south to escape the cold. Humanitarian aid and free gas could be given to those who need it on the way back to Mexico. Dude, that was easy, you just have to think outside the box. The box is shrinking you see. And if we don't get out we're going to die. Your "being reasonable" trip is just the acceptance of degredation and death.

Now you're back your usual Greek Clarity.That may have been the great oversight of the Constitution: the procedure for peaceful sucession. Probably doesn't matter since Washington isn't going to let any of us go without a fight. But who knows - maybe if it was in writing and there since the begining it might have made a difference...

Good Myrt. Just keep worrying about a Right Wing takeover during an ongoing Left Wing Coup. They will use the dialectic: the OWS's will make extreme demands and Obama will walk a middle line by not granting all their wishes - in other words more State Socialism but not the looting of the Banks that they want. Thus Obama and his Banker paymasters get what they want by seeming to be conciliatory and moderate like Comrade Progress. But for the White Middle Class - nothing, and less than nothing.

Hey Tripp

Good to hear from you again.

Thanks for the link to Trends on your site. Have copied it and will read. Also thanks for the book recommendation.

She sounds sinister - like those Jews manning women's centers in Muslim Countries trying to make abortion available. A "Christian" talking about a "broken shofar"? Suuuuure. Just like Tony Blair who converted to Catholicism after his term ended. I mean the old boy has to stir up trouble somewhere. Can't just sit at home, you know.

We always have the Declaration of Independence to justify change of government, although our present government would strongly oppose such an action.

To me the Declaration was the philosophical basis for what government should be, in whatever form, while the Constitution is kind of a rules and regulations manual.

Apparently it (pot) does something to the brain's chemicals that increase the symptoms of schitzophrenia (sp?).

If somebody is schizophrenic to start with then having a toke can't make them schizophrenic.
That is like an egg laying a chicken.

I've looked at recent studies concerning schizophrenia and cannabis use. They all appear bogus.

Scientific research can't be done when there is an agenda to produce results for political reasons. When it comes to cannabis there is a huge political agenda and a lot of money is spent to justify the war on drugs. The war on drugs is really an industry in it's own right.

Enough money gets spent on the war on drugs to corrupt god and I would think all the money spent over the last twenty years to find something wrong to no avail would tell a thinking person that cannabis is probably pretty safe.

I think our guvment would love to tell you something was wrong with it. Oh yes they would, if only they could.

If it really does fry your brain then they'd not ask Any Questions? when they showed you their frying egg spot on the tube. They'd tell you exactly how dangerous it really is in excruciating detail and include a few medical disaster photos for good measure.

It's safer than alcohol that's for damn sure. Forty times less damaging to society and I've a source for that.

You may be on to something regarding Hollywood. I saw the flick "Hall Pass" ( don't waste your time or money)and one scene was particularily notable. The main character - a white guy - passes out in a athletic club hot tub. Out of the sauna come two men to the rescue, a white guy and a black dude. Anyway, the black dude takes the head and shoulder end to help lift the passed out character of the hot tub and the white guy grabs the feet end. Meanwhile, the passed out character wakes up to the sight of Big Bad John dangling in front of his face. Looking back over to the white guy he requests, " Hey Irish, switch places with this guy please". At which point the camera reveals a red-haired man hung like a leprechuan.

No respect I tell ya; no respect!

First, you need to raise your situational awareness. Second, you need to understand the source of the enemy's motivation and the source of the enemy's power. Most often than not it is one and the same and it is economic. Thus, your suggestions above are of little practical use. After you manage one and two, you make yourself like the wind. So when the wind blows it is the wind blowing.

Remember, nothing is coincidence. Everything is planned.

The depravity of the human soul knows no limits. Watch this dog fight video if you dare!

http://www.dogwork.com/chmatf8/

See there is really some joy left in the world. If only we could talk to the animals!

Superpowers can coexist with small nations!

Your Emma West mask will be sent to you in the mail.

Bill -
I'd have to go with #3 and #7.

3. Do nothing but prepare for the worst as best we can.

7. Vote out the president and congressmen and replace them with people who'll take us down the correct path.

And I'd add a #10 of my own -
10. Learn to think of the future in ways that go beyond the next meal, paycheck, election, or war.

======================

We're too busy to feel you see. Thus we lose our soul be minute degree every. Each day less human than the day before. The weekends cannot give us time enough to recover. If one does what one loves it's different of course...but how many do or can?

Remember Dr Doolittle who loved the animals - he could because he did little else...no sex drive, no women to please - a perfect monk.

One Evangelical Group out here has ties to the Middle East. They claim that the Sunnis and Shiites hate each other almost as much as they do the Jews. They have a saying: first Friday, then Saturday, then Sunday. In other words, take care of the Muslims first, then the Jews, and then the Christians.

Don't know if this is true. The hatred is obviously extreme with the radical Sunnis being the worst. Shiism is apparently somewhat closer to Sufism than the Sunni.

Vlad you have to lighten up, I agree sometimes shit gets me down. I feel. I have seen a lot of shit. My junk drawer overfloweth. I think I became more human as I aged. I work most weekends so I can not comment on that. I love my job and I am gonna retire soon. I am somewhat ambivalent about it. I have been there since I was 21. I love animals and believe me I am certainly no monk! I hope I am pleasing my woman! Either that or she has been faking for 30 years. And yes I can talk to my dogs!

You find it amusing apparently. The other day a young White Man killed himself in England after being raped by two Blacks.

Remember the White guy who dragged the retarded Black guy to death? James Byrd I think? He had been gang raped in prison. Somehow the Media forgot to mention that even though what he did got enormous coverage. The hate that hate wrought.

Your attitude is so common and it's so wrong. It's like enjoying dog fighting.

Yes Tragedy either makes us more or less - never just the same. I bet you have. One EMT told us (first aid class) that alot of what she had seen was very funny and/or very sad. Her fave: kids driving around in a van. One girl blowing a guy in the back. Crash. Chomp. Guy is in alot of pain. Girl has whole dick in mouth without guy being attached. Guess they were able to reattach. Wonder if it worked "better" like Joey Buttefuko's or however you spell it! See, I can be light and funny.

C.S Lewis said having a pet is like having a personal representative in the Kingdom of Pan. I'm trying to tame a feral cat. He hisses at me sometimes even though I feed him. Now and then he meows, but I think it's hard for him. I've made progress - now he's willing to sniff my finger as a gesture of acknowledgement, but that's it so far. My brother suggested just getting another cat, but I can't bring a new cat into this dangerous coyote ridden environment. This one is here already. He's an impressive Tom - very hard and wary. I like him even if he doesn't like me yet - or ever.

Maybe I'll get a ferret or rodent if he doesn't work out. Each species brings its own gifts as the Indians say. Dogs I love but they don't quite fit my lifestyle and situation.

Vlad I hope that dog fight comment was not directed at me. The you tube link I posted was cute as heck. ;o)

It was silly and stupid. It was also incendiary in a passive-aggressive sort of way, i.e., dressed up in comedy. But what purpose, Vlad, does it serve to graphically delineate such ridiculous characteristics (and individually idiosyncratic traits smothered in stereotypy) between various ethnic groups? Mostly it was just degenerate, no talent film making, along with the vast majority of vapid junk that comes out of Hollywood - that's why I qualified my post.

Vlad I hope that dog fight comment was not directed at me. The you tube link I posted was cute as heck. ;o)

Whats with the double post? More ghosts in the machine?

Thanks for your comments, Procon. When I wrote this post, I had an idea of which option would be the most realistic.

#3 is what preppers do. With great good luck, that might save yourself and your family. But it wouldn't change a bad outcome for our society if TSHTF.

#7 is great, but idealistic. It won't happen. There's too many different opinions among the electorate to elect a congress and president who'll stop the graft, corruption, thievery and bad judgment, IMO. The electoral process hasn't worked yet. Since it's 11 months to the next national election, could we get the populace to act rationally in that short a time? The next chance would be in 5 years, 2016. Do you think we have as much as 5 years before something bad happens? Just electing a good president isn't enough. There are 3 branches of government to contend with. And truly, which viable presidential candidate for 2012 now is capable of effecting "change we can believe in"?

Your options, ## & #7 are the choices a good person would make, but they won't be able to stem the tide of crap that's sweeping towards us. I'm an all-out kind of guy, so I'd be looking for some action that would stop the tsunami of hurt that's descending upon our civilization.

Correction: Options #3 & #7

Vlad, I believe your referencing John Bobbitt,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt
Made all the news.

We had a similar incident in town and I don't think it even made the local paper. They still call the poor guy dickless. Really quite sad.

Then again the dude probably deserved it. OUCH!

BeantownBill, Thanks for laying out some options. I spent a good part of my youth angry, in the streets, banging my head against the establishment and that did not work (understatement, no?)

So I would, at this stage of my life, with my energy waning, go with your #2, but I would phrase it a bit differently. I like the way SolarGuy sums it up pithily every week. Something like SMILE, DO GOOD, PUSH ON.

I would change you #2 to something like this:

2. Accept reality, be thankful, and live what remains of our lives with as much joy as we can muster: Dance, sing, eat, and celebrate this precious life we have been given.

No compromise, then.
Asoka damns the United States with his intransigent "pack 'em all in," and "grow the economy" attitude.

You, Vlad, damn the United States with your intransigence on social costs. A "pathway to legalization" is not amnesty. And if compromise could stop the flood of LEGAL immigrants for just 10 years - it would make up for all of the illegals here now - and pay benefits for the Planet, forever.

======================
Of course, here we come to the truth of it.
You want to see the United States collapse.
You have this fantasy of White Retreat to Idaho, which only total collapse can enable.

I've promised to travel through time and man a rampart beside you - if and when this ever happens.

But, man, am I going to be pissed if it could have all been avoided through compromise on LEGAL vs. illegal immigration.


ProCon, I think you replied to the wrong post. My post said nothing about intransigence or packing em all in, or growing the economy. You are putting words in my mouth again.

What I have said is open the borders and things will take care of themselves. Hostile laws and attitudes means that immigrants are already leaving. There is a brain drain happening as immigrants leave the USA. This hurts our nation. You hurt our nation.

What I have said is we need global population reduction and stopping immigration does not achieve that. Misdirected effort in my opinion.

What I have said is that everyone needs to work on energy descent (which is why I live simply in a mud hut).

"ProCon, I think you replied to the wrong post. My post said nothing about intransigence or packing em all in, or growing the economy."
-asoka-

asoka., your entire life as demonstrated on CFN, is about intransigence, packing 'em in, and growing the economy.

What good does it do to reduce global population if the US - currently burning 25% of Global Carbon - rises in population at 3 million/year - in a never ending, non-brain-draining, rape of Global resources?

And - evidence demonstrates convincingly
You don't live in a mud "hut".
You're not black.
You're not old.
You are an oveposting, preening, impediment to honest discussion.

And, saying repeatedly that you "like me as a person," only serves to corroborate this evidence.


Why America Needs Immigrants

the allure of America is fading. A new study by researchers at U.C. Berkeley, Duke and Harvard has found that, for the first time, a majority of American-trained entrepreneurs who have returned to India and China believe they are doing better at "home" than they would be doing in the U.S. The numbers weren't even close: 72% of Indians and 81% of Chinese said "economic opportunities" were superior in their native countries. -- Wall Street Journal, May 14, 2011

The USA will deteriorate even faster without immigrants. Welcome them, ProCon. All of them. Or they will leave permanently and take their brains and wealth and innovation and creativity and job creation skills and humanity with them. And we will be the poorer.

Freak on a leash -
You're right a., I meant for my 10:14 post be a reply to Vlad.
My bad.
I think I'll quit for the night.

Thanks, ProCon. Sleep well. Happy chainsaw dreams.

チャンピオンズリーグ戰罷五輪で、比擬の前コピーブランド何シーズンには少なブランドコピーらず吹き。組別リーグで、チェルシー、マンチェスター?ユナイテッド(マンu)バッグ・財布ど伝統ブランド 時計名門異例のはブランドコピーだ出て保障進級資歷激安ブランドコピーら出スーパーコピー 時計零落しコピー商品ブランド能夠性クロエコピー少なコピーブランドない。スーパーコピー 時計偽ブランド腕時計り、名偽ブランド知コピー商品ブランドなコピーブランドブランドコピーどの小スーパーコピーなボールで頭角をそっブランド コピー s級激安ブランドコピー作スーパーコピーブランド出していスーパーコピークラブないしは國度サッカー歷史を書ブランドコピー直ロレックスた。

歷代の歐州チャンピオンズリーグは、體內に數人のいバッグ・財布グッチるダークホースだが、今シーズンの突風はそれよりさらに勝例年だった。キプロスの阿ティモ?ボル今シーズンのこれまでの最大の奇兵、qスクール2次6?0で下して優勝に續いて、3回戰アルバニアを2?0で零落し、スロベニア布拉迪斯拉法により、プレーオフを經て、3—2で制し32強にクラクフ進んだ。正戰の阿ボル進んだよう高速運轉のモータ1機が止まらない、うっかり、最終予選に全副奪われるかもすべて名門クラブのありませんでした。

あざクロエコピーくフェネルバフチェ加入チャンピオンズリーグ?グループリーグ奇怪會、トラブゾンないように知らブランド 時計るどコピーブランドろか、フルシードを控えて?qスクールより強い相手らで、トラブゾン示意を增やそうとする勇氣だコピーブランド。インテル?ミラノとのホーム試合を控えて1?1で引き分け、遠征1?0で勝っゴールに加え、0?0と引き分けたモスクワ地方步兵とリール、トラブゾンは五輪過ぎて勝ち點6點を記載した。最初のラウンドを控えてリール、トラブゾンできれば成功は一つの16強で確保できるという點をあげて、引き分けてさスーパーコピー 時計すれば、地方(チュンアン)步兵に堪えないインターミラン、トラブゾンも組2位で身分入りトーナメント。

歷史上、トラブゾンだブランド コピー s級で遠くの1976 ~ 77シーズンに入ったよコピーブランドなチャンピオンズリーグ第2ラウンド(16強)に續き、今回も平らに進級したクラブの歷代最高成就でクロエコピーるとともに、チャンピオンズリーグは直さ後、トラブゾン初グッチてトーナメント。特筆すべき點はトルコのチームを絕スーパーコピーす16強入りチャンピオンズリーグは、07 ~ 08シーズンは後來、フェネルバフチェベスト16入りを果たした。コピー商品ブランドもしブランドコピーいのはフェネルバフチェとインターミランとモスクワの地方(チュンアン)步兵と同じ組で、トラブゾンバーバリーシーズンとインターミランとモスクワの地方(チュンアン)步兵とともにb組では、より5勝のう偽ブランド4勝が、トラブゾン得チャンピオンズリーグ?グループリーグ正チケットがバックアップフェネルバフチェだった。4年後、またスーパーコピーブランドる一スーパーコピーブランドのトルコのチームが歐州チャンピオンズリーグ16強に收支し、それも対トルコサッカー絕鼓書勵的だ。

ルイ・ヴィトン(白文引見:スポーツのハンドバッグ:爆擊機)

Here are a few things:

PA Governor Tom Corbett should be investigated by Holder. Where is Eric Holder? Corbett was aware of the Sandusky/Penn State rape case when HE was PA Attry. General but failed to investigate and indict leaving it to the current PA Attry. General, once Corbett won the Governorship position. HUMM!!! Apparently, he knew but looked the other way until made Governor.

Also, Corbett knew that Allan Shipman, the contracted toxic Fracking fluids waste hauler who dumped tons of the shit in local streams and creeks, when Corbett was PA Attorney General. He knew but failed to investigate and indict. At the time, Corbett was getting some Marcellus Shale drilling cash to run his campaign for governor. Eric Holder---where is your investigation of Corbett. Again, Corbett left the indictment up to the current PA Attry. General.

Finally, why is the Federal Reserve considering being the central bank of last resort for Eurozone bank liquidity, while US citizens are being foreclosed, and on the street?

http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

Asoka, a fine sentiment on your behalf, but it wouldn't work for me. I know peace of mind is a goal to be achieved even more than happiness, and acceptance and letting go provides the basis, but I can't yet forego the possible future I dream of for us humans - a wondrous time when apparent miracles to those of us today would be a daily occurance.

For that reason, I"m not able now to stand by and let a collapse occur without at least trying to prevent it somehow in my own little piece of the universe. So to me, option #2 doesn't appear correct.

Maybe I'm missing something in your point of view: what do you see as the relationship between legal and illegal immigration?

Naturally I'm against both. Certainly a moratorium on legal immigration and an end to illegal via everify and other measures. Any path to citizenship is just a green light for them to keep coming. We must get serious or Bunkers it is. And yes, that may well be the for the best since there will never be peace here now. Too diverse. But don't get me wrong: it wont be good for me. I never write about that. I identify with the White Race here and not my own misery or gain.

97 year old man punched to the ground by Negro on tram. No jail time - unlike Emma West who spoke out against "people" like this chimp.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2011/12/my_tram_experie_1.php

BTB said: "I"m not able now to stand by and let a collapse occur without at least trying to prevent it ..."

================

You and I and others have been reading this blog for years now. If there was a way to "prevent collapse," someone would have come up with it. Guns and ammo and whiskey don't prevent collapse. Gardens don't prevent collapse. Prayers to invisible beings don't prevent collapse.

Of course I have my bias toward activities like Tripp's permaculture or SolarGuy's panel installations, but I am under no illusion that those activities will become mainstream, and therefore they will not prevent collapse.

#2 has the important "Accept reality..." in it, and that means accepting that we cannot prevent collapse. It is bigger than us. It would be like a Hindu trying to "prevent" Kali Yuga.

I'm sticking with #2. I wish you well with your choice.

As a further explanation of why I wouldn't pick option #2 - when I was in my early 20's, despite my scientific background I went to an astrologer to get my horoscope done. I guess I didn't really know who I was; I tried to learn but I couldn't seem to find any answers, so in a pseudo-scientific way I decided to get someone else to tell me.

Anyway, I never forgot what the astrologer told me: that my life path in this world was to find spiritual enlightenment. Around this time I was studying about peace of mind, so I kind of naturally conflated spiritual enlightenment with it.

Now I'm much older and long ago I learned in my own way who I am. Not totally, because I think I'll always learn something new about myself until the day I die, but mostly. I've grown as I age - luckily - but I haven't yet gotten to the point of being able to let go of a lot of things. I can accept, but not yet let go. This is good, because maybe it means I have to be alive a bit longer to learn this lesson.

You may be right. You and I both believe that the end of the world is not coming, but I do think we could experience very hard times. I don't want the progression of knowledge to slow down; I'd like to be alive in that future I mentioned. For me, it would be a shame if I missed it.

Many times I think the human race race shouldn't progress more until we emotionally mature as a species, but I'm not sure. Ah, well.

Did you not read the link I tried to give to Beantown last week?

Dennis Kucinich IS trying to deal with the banking crisis.

Not by bailing out the banks. By introducing monetary reform.

Every week you point out that our current system is unsustainable. Well, yes, it is.

So we need to do something different. This is something different.

http://www.monetary.org/american-monetary-need-act

Well, asoka, you must know how I feel about prison by now.

It is a horrific institution, and the claim that it's some sort of luxury life, with great medical care, and visits from the family? I find that totally disgusting.

To lock people into cages at the mercy of armed goons, to take their freedom away for decades for petty crimes, to turn prisons into profit-making institutions, with judges and legislators bribed into giving more people into their clutches- it's all too horrible.

And your go to jail for justice? You can't be serious.

There is nothing revolutionary about being locked in a cage.

splingの「の輪」、グーグル+の似たよコピーブランドな、獨一と違うのは、splingの中の「輪」クロエコピー、非対稱とコピーブランドう、すバッグ・財布バッグ・財布ちごとコピーブランド1スーパーコピーブランドのこの「輪」內の退出者が、こ偽ブランドコピー商品ブランドに「輪」內の形式が含ブランドコピー偽ブランドスーパーコピー 時計いスーパーコピー。コピーブランドのブランドコピーブランドコピー、「の輪」こブランド コピー s級ができる偽ブランド公有という設定ブランド 時計公有の時、フェイスブックを貼スーパーコピーブランドを防ぐことがでブランドコピーコピー商品ブランドが、突如腕時計スーパーコピー 時計者リンク激安ブランドコピー拜訪激安ブランドコピーる。

にもかかわらずsplingの創意と概念は鮮活だが、spling面前をチームの年齡は等待に胸を腕時計コピーブランドらまブランド 時計て、最高運營者(ceo)のビリー?麥克法蘭德(billymcfarland)、cfoニック?強調(nicmeiring)、cooマイク?崔雷(maccordrey)、ctoアンリ·クレー福德(henryclifford)は、この輪籌エルメス達到時、彼らはすべてか19歲の子供たちだブランドコピー。(盧鑫)

Things are changing. People are waking up.

The other day a security guard who hasn't spoken to me since I stopped him from attacking a patient told me that he listened to my radio show and liked it.

Tonight another security guard, who is in the military police, and bragged about how great it was to be able to go to Texas and do cell extractions, and how they could be as rough as they wanted and nobody cared, came up to me complaining about the Senate Bill that just passed, allowing the military to throw anyone into prison. At first, I assumed he would be for it, but, no. He's vehemently against it.

I'm thinking that the ruling class doesn't realize that the people they expect to follow their commands just may not do it. At some point, they will turn their guns the other way.


Hi, Bill!! I think that, conspiratorial as it may sound, the world's power brokers and plutocrats already know that the world is growing more chaotic, resource-challenged, dumbed down, fractured (Yugoslavia split up, the "Velvet Divorce" split Slovakia from the Czech Republic, the "Stans" split from Russia, and lots of secessionist movements are quite alive like Catalonia vs. Spain), and showing all the behaviors of a Skinner Box (bad parenting, listless children, etc.).

They know. The problem is that they've picked YOU and ME to die. What can we do about it except kvetch? Well, I participate in any and all local OWS rallies and I will try to be Sisyphus as long as I can. If we can end Vietnam, we can storm this Bastille, too. I try to live a personal lifestyle than SHUNS consumerism and waste. I try to talk to locals about living a low-footprint lifestyle. It's NOT "austerity". It's just realizing that acquisition of "stuff" doesn't produce DURABLE personal satisfaction like love, music, good books, good conversation, and good friends ... all of which are either free or very low cost.

Indeed, I would claim that acquisition is a SURROGATE for MISSING love, mental connections, or captivating hobbies. I don't feel deprived for ONE SECOND even though I have a 14-year-old Honda Civic, a jeans-and-pullovers wardrobe, no high ticket possessions (Rolexes, jewels, etc.), and I've never felt travel was worth the jet fuel OR the expense. I've been to all but one Continent and I think travel is overrated. The more I correspond with Europeans, the more their complaints about social changes sound identical to here. McLuhan's "global village" has arrived.


E.


K-dog said:
I've looked at recent studies concerning schizophrenia and cannabis use. They all appear bogus.
************************************************************

K-dog ... you're just not getting the best shit!! Oh wait ... I think I just saw God!! Just teasing ... I think those studies that "prove" that pot is a "psychotomimetic" are bullshit. I know a raft of daily users around here and the only clinical effect I can verify is an amotivational syndrome and even THAT only in daily users. I haven't seen ONE person "become" schizoid.


E.

E. and company

The goal is to get all people on the same economic level with one tiny overclass who owns it all.

When they said they were raising all ships they didn't mean the first world. They meant the third world and the first would be downgraded at the same time. My slogan for us all: Our future rate of pay will be a dollar a decade.

A few years ago, a TV commentator stated that the poorest Americans are better off than the poorest in third world countries. (that's 'cuz they have TV). When you witness what's happening you can only conclude that they want a majority of Americans in the same economic bracket.

Is that what T. Friedman means in the title The World is Flat?

[quote="Twiffy"][quote]The laws of physics are a function of the observer[/quote]

[quote]mathematics is greatly overrated in physics[/quote]

LOL[/quote]

Why are you laughing at me ? Do you have a car engine in your brain at full throttle ? and are the cylinders and gears, and many other gears, signals, wild symbols, wild chemicals, wild signals, trillions of gears, circuits, you name it, you invent it, like a crazy duck, all connected and disconnected with all kinds of mixes of neural circuits and sense organs and emotion - sentiment circuits and pain/pleasure mechanisms, and many other contraptions in your Man Brain ? Are you that particular OBSERVER ? Do you know how the world and reality feels like for that contraption ? And do you think that your personal Man Brain and life history and contraption in the ball of meat that is your brain is "objective" and has a higher "metaphysical value" and "truth" then the car engine brain mix OBSERVER ? Prove it then, show me the evidence, show me how your view is superior and tied up into the real "laws of physics" as opposed to what the car engine brain observes, and the patterns it discerns and the "laws of physics" (if it even needs them?) discovers.

Nature is just one wild contraption that just appeared, for no reason at all, just because, because the blind forces of nature made the chemicals connect and evolve to create this fluke and insanely arbitrary quirk of a brain and Man Brain.

There are starquakes on magnetars, solid frozen neutron stars that are frozen into a configuration by immense magnetic forces and just a small instability and change of the magnetic field can generate huge amounts of gamma ray pulses, enough to burn all life on earth if the magnetar is close enough. So how does the world appear to that particular observer, to that brain, to the magnetar brain. Oh, it is not a brain ? but it can be configured in such a way as to become an observer, and it would see things different from you.

Am I wrong ? good, I want to be wrong, I want to lie, I want to tell as many untruths as possible, I worship lying, especially lying to myself (it is the only thing left worthwhile) I worship "incorrect" and "false", I love contradiction, I worship contradiction as my only god, the more I am wrong and contradictory the better. Worship lies, invent ever more crazy lies, deceive, fake it, fake it all, delusion is my friend.

Now, feel free to attack !

Anyways, I have demonstrated once and for all that the neutrino speed is faster than light in:

http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177509

Einstein was wrong, I am right, suck it up dude.

TOBOR THE APE

That was from:

http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177441

Study it all very carefully, please, and open your skull and stick stuff inside it, do me a favor (this also solves the overpopulation problem). Jackasses, we need trillions of new people, trillions of people to explore all...


Third worlders who have a decent food supply eat BETTER than poor Americans. They eat fresh, wholesome foods ... which they often raise and harvest/slaughter themselves.

A freaking large ONION is now a buck at Safeway. Decent meat (not ground beef ... you don't want to know what's in there) starts at $5.99/pound unless on sale.

I'll bet the Greeks eat way better than us. They live way longer, too, which is a de facto proof ... even though they are Europe's heaviest smokers. How can THAT be?

In the latest WHO study of G-20 rates of depression, the most unhappy countries were France and the USA. However, radioland's Republikooks will keep talking as though it was 1965 and we're the kings of the mountain. I wonder if any of those bastards ever leave their McMansions and chauffeured limos to see how us "little people" live??

E.


Thank God for Kucinich ... and Bernie Sanders. Thanks for the news about DK, Wage. It's nice to know that a few of our reps aren't dead from the ass up. :-D


E.


I think your idea that the neutrino goes faster than light is nonsense. Since it is now well established that neutrinos have MASS (around 1.5 eV), as they approach C, their mass goes infinite and their density as well.

There's only one entity in the universe that DEFINITELY can go faster than light and that is SPACETIME itself. When fermions, like neutrinos, go faster than light (if that's possible), the Lorentz Time Transformations demand that the particle go BACKWARDS in time. This is only possible, indeed DEMANDED, of one kind of substance ... ANTIMATTER. A positron MUST go backwards in time to preserve CPT symmetry vs. the electron because they both have the same parity but opposite charges so T must change for antimatter. Antimatter CANNOT go forward in time.

E.

"The goal is to get all people on the same economic level with one tiny overclass who owns it all." -LB

I agree. Feudalism works very well for a tiny few who have a psychopathic will to power and control. And, as we know, the only true wealth is natural resources (or those "things" made from them).

HOWEVER, we have one hope that is the "elephant in the living room". It's one the overlords don't see, or are willfully ignoring.

***********LEGALITY*********

They're busy destroying the legitimacy of "the law".
Okay, despot A sez: "I own this hyar land; all you pissant farmers move the hell off, 'cause I've got a contract (all signed and legal-like) that says I bought it fair and square."

Tell me why that "legal contract" should be heeded, won't you? When the "laws" are written by and for the wealthy and powerful, there's no recourse and little [if any] justice.

JHK keeps at this theme, and rightfully so. Loss of legitimacy is the beginning of the end for any society. Violence is the only tool of enforcement (for unjust "laws"), and active subversion is the result.

I suppose this is why many of us are "rooting for" economic collapse to stop the resource grabbing, rather than world-wide war. Theft by sword or pen? Any other alternatives?

Water, energy, food, natural resources. These are the only real measures of wealth.

That said, here's an interesting new factor. The president of the republic of texas had better start making bug-out plans; this ain't gonna end purdy:

http://www.thenation.com/article/164970/greatest-water-crisis-history-civilization

(The ads on the site crack me up! Tell Michelle you're "in". lol In on what? The Griftocracy? I don't think "I'm in", thanks anyway.)

Alrighty, here's a song to go with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_2njtHamIM

(And here we go again; sponsored by WALMART for EARTHMONTH! ...And BRITA water filtration. The Orwellian oxymorons, cognitive dissonances and psychological disconnects fly faster and farther every day. BTW, it is the NEW Great Depression fire. Song by Peter Rowan, I believe.)

"However, radioland's Republikooks will keep talking as though it was 1965 and we're the kings of the mountain. I wonder if any of those bastards ever leave their McMansions and chauffeured limos to see how us "little people" live??" -E.

IMHO, quite soon they will not dare without gangs of mercenaries watching their backs (and fronts... and sides... and overhead... and beneath).

It would an interesting experiment to see how hawaii would make without federal dollars or mainland tourism. there would be starvation and/or another colonial power there within a year. If they want secede , i say let them.

Oh Brother Where Art Thou?

A Cohen brothers treat with a soundtrack many in my generation probably couldn't appreciate.

Ahhhhhhhh,

It's a good morning

E, you just couldn't resist jumping in to the particle physics blubber from another poster, eh?

You MAD scientist you!

Good to see your words still visiting this page.

E. said: "I think your idea that the neutrino goes faster than light is nonsense."

==================

E. in high school physics they told us neutrinos could not go faster than the speed of light. They were wrong.

There is new science now that shows neutrinos do indeed go faster than the speed of light. You can read about it here:

http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.4897v2

The results, submitted for peer review in the Journal of High Energy Physics (it ain't Scientific American!), confirmed earlier measurements that neutrinos, sent through the ground from Cern near Geneva to the Gran Sasso lab in Italy 450 miles (720km) away seemed to travel faster than light.

So information can be sent back in time. Past and present are not divided so clearly. And cause and effect are not all they are cracked up to be. I'm not even going to mention the implications for the validation of certain eastern religions -- religions that scientists have poo-poohed for decades.

"Maybe I'm missing something in your point of view: what do you see as the relationship between legal and illegal immigration?"
-vlad-

What has happened over the last 20 years due to ILLegal immigration - has been rapid and attention catching.

What is happening due to LEGAL immigration is slightly slower - and seems to catch no attention at all.

Before Columbus, there were 10,000,000 Indians as a HIGH estimate - in what became the US.
We're over that number already - by 31 X.
We think things are OK - because of oil and coal.
And "civilization" - which runs on oil and coal.

This won't go on forever.
======================

My point is - legal and illegal immigration have become hopelessly conflated in public perception.
And what matters is the TOTAL overpopulation of the United States.

I'd be happy to open a "path to legality" to 10 million illegals - - IF, IF that "path" came with an honest examination of the future - and a reduction in NEW immigration to Replacement Level.

========================

Besides that, new FIRST generation immigrants tend to be OK workers - and retain some of the ethical sensibilities of their homelands, and gratitude for being in the US.

SECOND generation, children of immigrants - after a life of Free and Reduced Lunch and American Television Programming - become more and more indistinguishable from children of the native born -

And these children then begin to look down on the NEW immigrants, the ones "Doing the Jobs Americans Won't Do."

So - we're into a never ending cycle -
We can stop population growth the easy way, by changing some quotas, or we can let it ride-

Until some physical thing, ends it.
Which WILL happen, and not in a pleasant manner.
It's completely inevitable.
And completely avoidable.
==================
No, Lbendet - I do not believe that there is a brain, running the brain trust.

What do you say? Let's start a movement to lobby JHK to change the title from ClusterFuck Nation to Immigration Nation, since that is the theme you bring up week after week after week.

On how I struggle to cope with all the coming turmoil the next 20 years will contain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjRGee5ipM&feature=related

Enjoy!

ABSALOM

E.

I don't think of Greece as a third world nation,
though it's going through the process of becoming one along with the rest of us.
I'd say that most 3rd world nations have good food sources where droughts and floods don't occur, that said, Monsanto and other big agribus transnationals are trying to destroy the local farming and replacing it with GMO's. India has suffered greatly from this and many farmers were committing suicide.

Oh, its so nice when they kill themselves so we don't have to...
-----------
Ozone,

It is amazing how our crazy economic system works backward. Today Newt boasted that he created the macro-economic laws by which Romney could make his millions. He's boasting about supply side, which to me is really tone-deaf.. and anyone in the 99% still thinks that's a good thing, all I can say is good luck to 'em.

Couple of more observations:

Someone mentioned how 3rd worlders eat better than US residents - and with shorter supply lines, etc.
Which is true.

And others (asoka.) point out that opening the immigration floodgates into the US would solve the immigration problem - as the US finally degrades into 3rd world status, and no one else wants to come here.

But - problem is - we'll be 3rd World with respect to opportunity, disease, and death.

But we'll still have the US style food supply chain. And we'll still have the US style lack of community. We'll be a Nation of 400,000,000+ individuals - eating processed Pizzas, and huddled in front of our TV's. What a future.

===============================
And Vlad - your idea of - just - turning off the lights and utilities on our illegal population.
And then giving them gas money for the trip back home. I can see where that has a certain resonance for some people. But it will never happen.

Concentrate on the possible.

Cause you got a good job, then by all means make your paper booboo.

But if you ain't got no job, and you're not smoking weed, I don't know what the f#*k you are doing with your life. I really don't. I really don't.

Katt Williams

"clusterfucknation" vs "immigration nation"

Population and immigration are the KEY components that put the Cluster, in the ClusterFuckedNation.

And let me remind the WHOLE discussion thread - that JHK seems to share similar views on immigration. I just bring them up weekly.
GOOGLE "My TEA Party," by JHK.

I'm sure this population and immigration focus gets tiresome to some threadriders.
It's pretty obvious that if you, asoka, did not engage me in the negative - week after week - that few others would.

============================
And the offer stands - IF anyone can devise a defense for US population growth due to immigration that does not involve:
1. Economic GROWTH
2. Platitudes - "We're a Nation of Immigrants."
3. Ethnic take-out opportunities

I will find another issue over which to obsess.
The floor is open.
So far - Crickets.


I didn't know about the Indian farmer suicide epidemic. I suspect that SUICIDE in the LE is going to move up right there with cancer and heart disease as a leading cause of death. Even in tony Palo Alto, I know a lot of people who are tired of having lived for 10 or 15 years in a row hand-to-mouth.

Sometimes if such conditions don't cause suicide, they cause a rapid degeneration of physical health and premature death. That's why people in America in the 1920s lived short lives ... the daily STRUGGLE of life made 50-year-old people LOOK old back then because of the sheer grind to survive. It wasn't just lack of vaccines or bad food. Arguably, they ate a helluva lot better than we do.

Suicide is going to MASSIVELY spike in America in the next decade and, mostly, it will NOT be farmers. It'll be spread throughout the general population due to endemic and relentless poverty and the depression that this causes.


E.

And thanks for the Carlin clips; always current and trenchant!


This Merkel-Sarkozy "machine" is just getting to be the darkest of dark tragicomedies. Because their stupid bankers bet on Greek, Spanish, and Portuguese real estate they're going to take an EIGHTY percent bond haircut (fifty? No way!) because they crashed those countries after a hot money invasion.

Instead of accepting this with dignity, their latest proposal is full of overt and implied punishments for future naughty debtor nations. Translation: Keep your bubbles inflated PIIGS because we've "turned American" and we're going to socialize all the losses and privatize all the gains.

The Germans should dump that frumpy beeyotch and the French should grab Sarkozy by his sizable nose and pull like some realpolitik Three Stooges episode until he goes through a wall of sheet rock.


E.


A short addendum ... y'all know that Timmy The Weasel Geithner is over there pleading for the EU to rob THEIR own people because it worked so well over on THIS side of the pond.

I wonder if Mr. Obama TRULY knows his own cabinet?

E.

Oh, but he does and that's a hard truth to look at.

We already had our epidemic of farmer suicides.

http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id395.htm

And it wasn't just Earl Butz.

Obama advisor, Paul Volcker, now touted as a great wise man, raised interest rates in the 80s to unheard of heights.

This not only pushed US farmers out of business, it destroyed many third world economies.

When I look at the situation in Europe I think that it is utterly hopeless. The Greek rescue is never going to work. The John Hussman quote you shared the other day, "What constantly rescues me makes me weaker..." qualifies as the best quote of the week.

SJmom

E.

Love what you wrote about the stooges in Europe. Yep, they're in this deep and Europe is giving up its sovereignty to oligarchy and worse.

This is the overarching ideology and game plan and all our presidents since at least Nixon have been on this course of destruction.

It's very slow at first and people think it's ok, but now the world is in a dangerous phase and it's going over the brink.

Obama may or not totally agree with all of this, but whether he does or not is immaterial to the fact that it is moving along in the only direction its allowed to. Since the only people selected as advisers are part of the movement, you'll only get the same results. Volker, Geithner, who cares? They all are using the same playbook for the same leadership.

I've named David Rockefeller, and Kissinger as leaders of this and there are many more. Call it Bilderbergers or anything else. This is where it's going. No taxation for the rich and the buying up of assets in all countries incl. the US.

What we are watching in Europe is pitiful.
Next stop war...Syria, Iran..Nice and big. We'll be too busy to notice the robbery from within.

There is tension in the air folks! From the trenches in San Jose:

I was shopping at Lunardi's (upscale Italian grocer) and there was this lady swearing up a storm. The manager asked her to leave the building and she refused. She threw a cup of coffee at him, hitting his arm. A fellow shopper happened to be an plain clothes SJPD officer got involved and eventually handcuffed her (she bit the officer). They hauled her away in a police car. Yikes.

SJmom

According to this, US farmers are still 4 times more likely to commit suicide.

http://www.factory-farming.com/factory_farming.html

For an Instant Singularitarian everything is (or can be, or can be potentially, or is in a certain universe amongst the infinite number of universes that exist) a brain, everything or anything is or can be an observer.

For an Instant Singularitarian (as in Instant Singularity by sticking wild stuff in your brain and entering a state of singularity, a new universe with new laws of physics, by sticking wild chunks of metal, jet engines in your brain or the the brain in jet engines and crossing the boundary into a new universe, but also Instant Singularity as in everything is an instantaneous interaction of matter with itself, a reciprocal interaction of chunks of matter in an instant of time, signals talking to each other, actions and reactions all in one instant of time with no spatial or temporal extension, simply an Information Relationship achieved etc.) everything is a brain, everything is an observer, everything or anything can be a potential brain - observer decoding the universe (what universe ? no universe ha ha) in any possible ways hence living in new parallel universes with new laws of physics, etc. Of course this as described by our puny logic.

And also since anything can be a brain or observer, any ensemble at all of entities (not necessary all in one place or time) can also be a brain, like a chunk of a magnetar plus a few electrons on mars plus a mountain on earth can represent and be the ensemble of a single delimitation of a single brain - observer. And this brain decodes the universe differently from us and lives in a parallel universe.

And also different time zones and material items can be a brain, like a given car in 1951 plus a rock on mars in the year 2020 plus a chunk of the sun today can be ensembled in one new observer - brain, living incredible experiences, etc. Or potentially, new brains. But how to find out ? open your skull and shove a jet engine in it, step on the gas and find out.

Everything is a potential brain observer, everything no matter how disconnected and far out and unrelated can be all put in one bag representing a new brain - observer - universe - laws of physics. A new Instant Singularity.

prog,

It's not that your concern with immigration is wrong, misguided, or misplaced. I'll stick my neck out and say that most readers here like reading what you have to say.

Many of us agree with your concerns but the fact is most Americans are selfish assholes who don't think or give two shits about future generations or where our nation is going to be in twenty years.

Much of what you may see as criticism from regular readers such as myself is actually a genuine concern for your health.

Obsession can lead to depression when one tries to beat a dead horse however right you may be.

Then again, maybe that's what were all here for.

To beat dead horses.

There are about four people who post on this site who I really enjoy reading. To be honest, I recognize that I don't really have much to contribute to their gaze regarding the overall purpose of this blog, but I get a kick out of the literary voices, and I don't worry so much about providing something new. It's all meaningless now, anyway, as JHK exclaims. Although, JHK and the feisty small crowd of large intellects he attracts reminds me so much of Carlin's comedy. And I can't help but become frustrated by the never ending, contrarian circle jerk debates presented by the three clowns and villain who outpost every other person who visits here 20 - 1.

Then I think of George Carlin again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs&feature=related

Shrugging acceptance indeed!

ABSALOM

I don't comment here very often, and...

As much as it gives me a morbid chill up my spine, as much as it evokes what one imagines "someone stepping on your grave" should feel like, I have to say that I really "like" this posting. It is your most apropos column in several months. Relatively short, as your best ones usually are, because lots of words aren't necessary to really lay out a bad situation with the greatest impact. You've effectively communicated how the law of the jungle, the Wall Street ethic, has metastasized throughout the American political economy. That's actually a bit unfair, as the phenomenon is a world wide epidemic. No matter where we are, we're all "dead men walking".

On that basis I suppose I disagree with the last paragraph. There is nothing to be done "in this country". The country is over. All of the Western world and its imitators is so morally bankrupt, even the countries as currently constituted need to go away in order to permit any enduring replacement to take root; and this process is just now getting up a head of steam. As you say, meaning has been vanquished, so what does "America" mean? Or Great Britain? Or France, Or Germany, or...? Zero, zip, nada; these names are merely place-holders for something that used to be there. Not that what used to be there was all that nifty. Think hard: What does it "mean" to be American in the current context?


SJM ... it all starts with little "anecdotes". Then you start talking to your friends and relatives and THEY have some little "anecdotes". Pretty soon, you piece it all together, and you start thinking that "normal" people are losing it.

I can tell you that the incivilities in the CLASSROOM and COMPUTER LAB at my school went hyperbolic in the last three years.

Something about snowballs rolling down hills, I believe? On the macro scale it's Oakland OWS. On the micro scale it's a perceived ramping up of anger and confrontations in the streets about TRIFLES (happening in Paris a lot these days). It SEEMS slow but in 5-10 years we'll look back at the terminal stages of this and it will seem like it happened in a flash.

E.


Hussman has a way with words. I only wish I thought more of his MUTUAL FUND. Sigh.


E.

Wow! I'm watching excerpts of Obama's campaign speech.

Is it possible to top the hypocrisy of yesterday's sanctimonious talk of fair elections?

He's attacking Republicans for wanting to continue with the same policies that got us into this mess. And he says that they think that the American people have short memories.

Why, yes, they do, and that's what he's counting on.

Americans will forget that Obama voted for the TARP bailouts and was President during the 16 trillion dollar handouts following.

Americans will forget that Obama and the Democrats voted to extend the Bush tax cuts in Dec 2010, when they held overwhelming majorities in the legislative and executive branches.

Americans won't notice that Obama, who campaigned on an environmental platform, claiming in his Inaugural Address that we would stop global warming, is now busily sabotaging the Durbin climate talks. And personally attended the Copenhagen talks in order to sabotage them.

The environmental president also opened new offshore fields to oil companies, and that has continued even after the submerged BP/Halliburton oil gusher of last year.

The environmental president is pushing for renewed nuclear power plants, after a bipartisan 3 decades of no new construction.

The environmental president postponed the tarsand pipeline until after the election.

The transparent president has prosecuted more whistleblowers than any other president.

The constitutional lawyer president has assassinated multiple people, and attacked another country without bothering to lie to Congress and get approval first.

But he stands up there as if none of that has happened, secure in the knowledge that the American people will either forget, or ignore, his record.

But it's s'ok. I know you would die for my right to say what I say. All of you Liberals believe in Free Speech - that's why you enact speech codes, ban posters, and throw people into jail in Europe for speaking their mind about Third Worlders - even as those same Third Worlders rape, assault, and kill at will.

How you people live with yourselves is beyond me. Do you close your eyes as you shave?

Now you're waking up: the People are idiots. That's why we had Bush and have Obama. There is no mention of Democracy in the Constitution. Voting was to only be for the well informed - what could make more sense?

I will never forget the time I saw Leftists helping an immigrant who could hardly speak English to vote. They were filled with a corrupt satisfaction.


This experiment has NOT been replicated and they don't even know among the signatories who are the endorsers and who gathered the results. Science is, above all, about replication and removal of alternative explanations. This is a 11/17/11 paper ... three weeks old.

If it's true, then the ENTIRETY of particle physics MUST BE SCRAPPED. How can a material, non-antimatter particle go BACKWARD in time which is INSISTED by Lorentz? The denominator of the equation which compares a second at rest to a second in motion is one minus the square root of V squared over C squared. Well, if V > C then the denominator is a NEGATIVE NUMBER which means that the particle's faster-than-light motion means that it "arrives" before it "left".

It gets worse when you pull in standard Relativistic Quantum Mechanics about density, length, and mass increases in particles of non-zero rest mass (the neutrino is about 1.5eV). Any nonzero rest mass goes to infinity when speed C is reached, density becomes infinite, and size becomes zero. In other words, this neutrino becomes a SINGULARITY.

Better wait and see if this experiment is verified several times. It could be amazing ... or it could be "cold fusion", Part Deux.

E.

Yeah Women have been so "empowered" by TV shows showing them as invincible that they have really begun to act out. It's good that people are starting to put them in their place. The Black Guy working at McDonald's who beat down the two Black Women who attacked him has just been exonerated. As both urban White and Black Men know, Black Women in groups can be very dangerous. He got alot of support from White Men in the Men's Rights Movement.

"I'm not able now to stand by and let a collapse occur without at least trying to prevent it somehow in my own little piece of the universe."

This reminds me of someone who thinks they're going to prevent a skyscraper from falling over by getting under it. You should instead try to get out of the way.

I wouldn't exactly die for your right to say whatever you want but I do think that speech codes and the like go way overboard in trying to solve what amounts to a non-problem. I'm not in favor at all. Let it all hang out, I say. Remember though, that if you say something that other's think is stupid or offensive, they have the right to ridicule you.

And always with the "you people." Seriously, Vlad, you think that all people who don't agree with you on the internet belong to some Elite Liberal Club that gets together on Tuesdays to decide how we're going to annoy you this week. Get a clue.

don t you know we don t shave?! why do you think they call us 'hippies'?!

Yeah, next thing you know they're going to want the right to vote.

Did you see Kpax? Old n Me or should I say Old and I are Kpaxim. Remember this jem (why spell it with a g if it's pronounced with a j? This is the new age):

There was once a young Lady named Bright,
Whose Speed was much faster than Light.
She once went away, in a relative way,
And returned the previous night.

Vlad has farted into his hand and rushed it toward his face, as usual:
=================================================
But it's s'ok. I know you would die for my right to say what I say. All of you Liberals believe in Free Speech - that's why you enact speech codes, ban posters, and throw people into jail in Europe for speaking their mind about Third Worlders - even as those same Third Worlders rape, assault, and kill at will.
=================================================

You silly curmudgeon. I'll let someone else comb over your vacuous pronouncements and help you tidy yourself as you continue to shit the bed. OVER. AND OVER. AGAIN.

Glad you said trenches. You are behind Enemy Lines and are begining to wake up. Don't bother thanking me, this is why I'm here.

I had a funny thing happen to me on the highway the other day here in the Bay Area. I was going along in the left lane, 1 of 4 lanes on this side of the road, at about 70 mph, which here in California is apparently extremely slow for some. Some jerk face in a truck (why do they always drive trucks?) gets right onto my bumper, even though all 3 other lanes were open to pass. So I dink the breaks a little to let him know that he's being a jerk, though I only slowed down by about 5 mph to around the speed limit. He whips around me, opens his window, sticks out his middle finger, and starts yelling various obscenities, all the while passing me at about 80 mph and swerving all over the place. I chuckle to myself, cuz I like to annoy the tailgaters whenever possible. He's 50 yards or so away and then I see a CHP car zoom by on my right and pull him over. Haha, suck it! Hope he got the reckless and/or drunk driving.

Um, Vladdie, dearest, San Jose is one of the safest big cities in the United States. You're afraid of your own shadow again.

turk, didn t you get the memo?! the meeting has been moved to friday morning at 10:47, and soak has been put on the provisional ballot...the first seven people to arrive will comprise a quorum; and will decide their fates...

"Black Women in groups can be very dangerous"

LOL. What, like a pack of piranhas or hyenas? Yes, it was just last week that I saw a pack of sisters take down a giant wildebeest on 2nd Avenue.

I love you Turk. Just heard the bad news: Mumia isn't going to fry die.

Pat's book is real good. Good quote from Aristotle: "Democracy...arises out of the notion that those who are equal in any respect are equal in all respects."

Cool, I'll bring the Commie Kool Aid. See ya soon!

Great meeting yesterday, Turkle.

I think we came up with some fabulous ideas for annoying Vlad.

What a filthy mouth you have. You probably like playing with your own feces. And then playing on the computer - each key soiled by your dirty little fingers.

You need to take a bath in all respects not just some.

Hello Mr. Asoka the contrarian. The neutrino experiment involved sending a neutrino from one lab to another about 400 miles away. The particle arrived in an extremely small fraction of a second (one part in several billions) faster than if it had traveled at the speed of light. The distance between the receiving and sending stations was known exactly, as was the time of travel.

As E has stated, if this result holds up, it would shake the very foundation of what we know about the universe. BUT here's the rub: the measurement anomaly is so tiny that any of several esoteric factors could have contributed to an error. For example, gravity can bend light, as per general relativity. There could have been a slight uneven distribution of matter along the travel path of the neutrino beam, which could have thrown off the measurement a tiny amount; remember, we are talking about an extremely small variation, at the limits of our measurement capabilities.

A few weeks later, another trial was made in which one possible error factor was taken into account. The result again showed a FTL velocity, but slightly less than before. This caused a great stir in the media, but not in the science community. This is because ALL the possible error factors must be eliminated before this experiment can be considered accurate.

This is where we stand as of today. It is far from over. Until it is, we must keep the status quo.

ExtraO,

I think the last paragraph is only saying the old order is finished and something as yet unknown must now rise up and take it's place.

By finished I think JHK is saying the status-quo can't be patched and glued together anymore to maintain the fiction that everything is going to work out OK.

There is an evil mime floating around that says our economy is like a locked up computer screen and that the computer just needs to be unplugged and plugged back in. To this JHK says the circuit boards are smoking, flames are about to shoot out the case and a reset is impossible.

The good news this week is that there may be a habitable planet only 600 light years away. I hope Richard Branson gets to work on commercial space travel to the planet (Kepler 22 B) real soon. Maybe we can get the hell out of here while the getting is still good.

It is the collapse of the culture that causes the collapse of societies. Barring a catastrophic event( eg. nuclear war) cultural decadence is the path to destruction. Currently rising civilizations have no doubt about the righteousness of their culture and their actions. While the west wrings it's hands over whose feelings they might hurt. This is probably clear to vlad.

E. said: "This experiment has NOT been replicated..."

=====================

Efforts are underway to replicate the results. Other experiments are being prepared — at Fermilab and at the KEK laboratory in Japan — to try to replicate OPERA's findings. If there is confirmation from one of these experiments, that would open the way for a full scientific discovery to be declared.

I think it would be more productive for problem-resolution to speak in terms of probabilities instead of adjectives and metaphors.

First, many of the first generation of Central Americans are good workers - true. But alot of criminals come in too. And the good workers are paid at minimum levels - so they get huge amount of social services. They are a net loss for America because of this and that they take the jobs Americans might do.

Things only get worse by the second generation: no longer good workers, joining gangs or going to college and joining La Raza, much higher crime rate, poor grades, huge amount of births outside of marriage etc.

These are the people who want to legalize. Alas our fallen human nature. The mind is split into two. Most people focus on the illegals. You've made the legals your cause celebre and now presto, the illegals are now the good guys. America is a broken record: every amnesty (or path thereto) just encourages more and more of them. We never learn. Is it possible?

Politics is the art of the possible. Is it possible to deport them? Yes, Eisenhower did it, but we were still a Nation then. So although it's more physically possible than ever, it's imossible or "impolitic" to do so now. So you're right - and we're finished. And succession becomes the only remaining option for White America - the only true America.

And that "will never" happen either. So it means war. Think it thru, my logic is flawless. And to condemn me is to condemn the Founders particularly Jefferson. They expected America to corrupt as all things do. The whole thing was an experiment to begin with. By no means did they share your fetish for things to continue forever as they are - even if they don't deserve to.

Okay, then let me just say that I'm probably confused by what you just wrote.

My Hero! tailgaters are my pettest of peeves on the road...i blame the pitiable lack of education: these idiots are clearly oblivious of the basic laws of physics...and obviously think they are dale jr, and that nascar is a driving tutorial...and they rarely notice that, unlike on the oval, drafting on my bumper makes my truck go slower...morons

I mean that instead of comparing my actions to standing under a falling skyscraper, you would say I have no chance of succeeding. I do love metaphors, but I respond better to facts. That's just me.

Crystal. Cultures ascend on hob nailed boots and descend on satin slippers. Gay is as Gay does. Reading Sir John Glubb's "Fate of Empires" Glubb Pasha was one of those amazing men that England used to produce is such abundance. Another Laurence of Arabia. He found most Nations (distinct from Civilizations) last 250 years give or take a few. Ten generations. We are on this exact trajectory so we will split up by 2025 or so. There is some evidence they are trying to suppress this little work for just this very reason.

But what happens afterwards is far less clear. Sometimes a Dynasty can reinvent itself as something else without a complete falling apart. Eastern Rome became Christian Byzantium. Anyway take a look and tell me what you think. I fear we are not just facing the end of a Nation or Dynasty but the end of all the Nations in the West; in other word the end of a Aeon or Civilization. A parallel: as if China was defeated and then ethnically cleansed by White Russians or defeated and converted to Islam with all the intermarrying that implies.

http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

Hi Turk!
It's remarkable that you continue to communicate with someone who stereotypes and compartmentalizes all humans & who's cause & effect reasoning is out of whack.

To put things in perspective, I was at my neighbors funeral Sat. Some of you long time readers here might remember that this is the guy that went off on me last Spring when I was discussing aspects of TLE. He had very little knowledge of peak oil, global petrol usage or what actual recoverable reserves are for various fields. He became enraged when I made some valid points about recovering oil from areas of the world that are increasingly more remote and that to claim "that there is plenty of oil, we just have to go after it", sounded like claims from "Palinites, bubbas & right wingers". That's when he told me he would "shut me up" and started yelling repeatedly, "go home!"

Since that point, I broke off contact, as the man scared me. He's a former Vietnam vet, bipolar, on meds & with anger magmnt issues. Well, he got into a big argument with his wife last week over nothing significant (seems she was leaf blowing, which is HIS job), it escalated, he said he was going to kill himself. She called the police after he went into the garage, they arrived & as the cop was trying to talk him down, he blew a hole in his chest with a piece from his arsenal.

Vlad said:

succession becomes the only remaining option for White America - the only true America. And that "will never" happen either. So it means war. Think it thru, my logic is flawless.

You have already certified that I have an inferior IQ because of my skin color, but your "logic" seems to have a problem.

First you say: succession becomes the only remaining option (I think you meant "secession," but I understood what you meant)

Now, maybe I don't understand the meaning of the words "only remaining option" but when you use "only" I understand it to mean there are now other options, period.

Then you go on to say there is another option: War. Your logic is not flawless, IMHO.

But war is not going to happen either, except for the ongoing war in your head.

Excellent observations. If only the mass, commercial media would assist in this dilemma of forgetting and ignoring like they once did years ago.

We do what we can. Keep speaking truth, WL. Do you send letters to the editors of local newspapers?

CORRECTION

when you use "only" I understand it to mean there are no other options, period.

Van Allen radiation belt

Wage said: "The environmental president postponed the tarsand pipeline until after the election."

================

I think you were intending to be sarcastic.

Postponing is preferable to approving the pipeline for immediate construction. If Obama later turns the postponement into construction, then your sarcasm works.

An anti-environment president would not have postponed the pipeline for a year.

But I don't give Obama the credit. I give Bill McKibben, the mass civil disobedience campaign, and 350.org the credit for pressuring Obama into postponing.

Please take the time to read Michael Hudson's web page: It's a brilliant explanation on how neoliberalism works.

The disaster to the world economy and the illusion that the only option is to bail the banks out and now allow govts. to raise cash to pay of debts. (Milton Friedman-Chicago Sch. of business).

Europe’s Transition From Social Democracy to Oligarchy from Dec. 6

http://michael-hudson.com/

As it will take a star ship faster than light to get there in a reasonable time the Van Allen belt should not be an issue since the exposure time will be really short.

I've got to believe in something or I'm just a lion standing around with a tadpole in a jar.

y all seen carlin s take on voting? "if you vote, you are taking part in a system which was bought and paid for long ago; therefore you have no right to complain..."

"I'm just a lion standing around with a tadpole in a jar."

??????

Could it be spent to "the" Space Station to get a more accurate reading? Or is there even one out there right now?

Well, I kind of understand tailgating if you are behind someone going under the limit on a 2-lane, which is like saying "pull over and let me get by" or perhaps when preparing to pass. Or let's say if someone is clogging up the left lane in busy traffic, it sort of makes sense.

But riding someone's bumper when there's a perfectly good way to get around them (e.g. 3 other open lanes) makes no sense what so ever unless you're just straight douche.

It's from Led Zeppelin "Dancing Time is Here Again"

I was nasty and threw it in for BeantownBill who has issues with metaphors today.

It's meaning is a bit murky but I'm sure a lion has better things to do than stand around with a tadpole in a jar.

We're talking differences in the billionths of a second. It could all easily just be some kind of subtle systematic effect. It probably is, actually.

As I said, your verbal intelligence is fine but it isn't hooked up with anything deeper. Your logical ability is nil, just like your mathematical ability. I lack the last as well btw.

Are are you arguing for causality and the status quo? You un-Asokean all of a sudden! Next you'll be against illegals voting.

I kind of understand tailgating if you are behind someone going under the limit on a 2-lane, which is like saying "pull over and let me get by"

=============

Tailgating is dangerous. Period. And should never be done.

In the 2-lane case, flash your high beams ... from a safe distance.

This CFN public service safety announcement has been brought to you by asoka.

yeah, no, as i understand it we d still fry like a microwaved mouse (don t ask) any conceivable craft currently at our disposal- which btw don t have FTL plasma drive...and there is quite a difference between producing a neutrino at such speeds (given the possibility, which i haven t the education to have an opinion on one way or the other) and making a vehicle do the same using that technology...so that s out for the forseeable future- if we have one, that is!

What, are you surprised that all us liberals aren't alike, Vladdie? I guess I didn't read my marching orders from the Central Committee today very closely. BRB.

Isn't tail gateing to do with football?

Yes, but it can also mean someone who drives too close behind you. Incidentally, I think there's an overlap between people who do both of these things.

Yes, I do. I don't know how many people read them.

I agree, CFT. I always slow down when someone tailgates me, on the theory that if they are going to hit me, survival is always better at lower rates of speed.

It is especially annoying if I am actually driving over the speed limit.

They have no right to demand that I go faster than the speed limit at all, let alone if I'm already breaking the law!

Go around, asshole.

Charming little tale about your neighbor, JohnSS. 'Round heya people also get pretty pissed off when I bring up the subject of 'Peak Oil'. So I just shut up. Let them find out the truth for themselves, the hard way!

Vlad, I know what George Washington said about avoiding foreign entanglements. But it ain't 1789 anymore. Iran & NKorea are developing missiles that could reach out shores, perhaps nuclear tipped missiles. How would Ron Paul respond to that? We don't know. Probably not too forcefully.

As for our foreign wars in the 20th century, I suspect your objection (to WW1 & WW2 at least) has something to do with the thorough ass-kicking we gave your beloved Germans in 1918 & 1945. In 1941 Hitler, amidst much fanfare, declared war on us right after the Japanese attack (70 years ago today), a big mistake on his part.

--------------------------------

Saudi oil production has topped 10 million bpd. Perhaps Matt Simmons was wrong about 'Twilight in the Desert.

---WAS7

Yeah, and you know a lot of these people are the "law and order" types ranting on the internet about how the OWS crowd is "breaking the law."

Since it looks to be so dangerous perhaps sending our leaders and the 1% there instead would be a better idea.

We can tell them that there are Aliens to exploit who will work for even cheaper wages than the Chinese. They will have a new chance to avoid minimum wage laws and labor regulations and relocate factories that is literally 'out of this world'.

Make em think it's their idea and they won't be able to resist. Alien slaves might puff up their chests even more than human ones do.

Owsers were rousted out of Hartford, Connecticut yesterday, after a reported rape, drug activity and weapons violations. It was a pitiful sight: a hard rain on a dark, dismal cold December day, Police Officers in riot gear holding automatic weapons, police dogs snarling, detrius and debris of the 2 month 'occupation' heaped up in a pile on the side of the road, tents, sleeping bags etc., dept. of health workers in hasmat suits pawing thru the debris, commuter traffic passing by with indifferent or annoyed drivers, the occupiers themselves, many who looked merely homeless, soaking wet in their rags, looking lost and forlorn, perhaps wondering what it was all about in the first place. Only a few resisted, only 1 arrest.

So ended the 'Occupation of Hartford'.

WSP7

Gringos were rousted from the Alamo, perhaps wondering what it was all about in the first place. So ended the battle of the Alamo.

Yep, battles may be lost.

The Viet Cong lost every battle with the USA military... until they won the war. Vietnam is now communist in spite of 58,000 American soldiers dead.

You remind me of my friend, who thinks that Star Trek is based on actual science and that, given sufficient time and investment, we could actually create FTL drives.

The two major problems are that NOTHING goes faster than light, at least not any kind of matter that we know of. Any particle that you try to accelerate to this speed limit will have infinite diminishing returns as it is accelerated towards the speed of light but never reaches it (think particle accelerators).

Or particles that actually reach the speed of light get turned into gammas, e.g. light particles.

People suggest that folding or warping of space time could allow us to "jump" from one point to another, but this is completely far fetched. Black holes already warp space and, as far as we know, don't create portals from one point to another. Or, if they do, the physics are so chaotic in and around it that anything trying to pass through would be torn to bits.

Sorry to burst the bubble, but a lot of sci fi is the equivalent of modern mythology.

"The Viet Cong lost every battle with the USA military"

No they didn't. Google it. ;)


"which means that the particle's faster-than-light motion means that it "arrives" before it "left".

It gets worse when you pull in standard Relativistic Quantum Mechanics about density, length, and mass increases in particles of non-zero rest mass (the neutrino is about 1.5eV). Any nonzero rest mass goes to infinity when speed C is reached, density becomes infinite, and size becomes zero. In other words, this neutrino becomes a SINGULARITY."

It is not absurd, only our mind - logic - language and neural circuits are not capable of making any possible sense of it, sense for us, for how we are, for our "Intentionality of Use", for how the logic is inserted in an already completely constructed logical system (requiring millions of circuits and years of life to develop).

The cause before the effect is outside of our range of understanding, it is not the universe that is limited, but our manipulation of the universe, our understanding and logical description of the universe that is limited and will always be limited by the limited number of neural circuits and the limited combination of concepts our mind, in this present design, can conceive.

Therefore, change the Man Brain, design a new one, etc.

Bustin, are you sill a tree hugger ? Do you still like nature ? You must be educated: kill nature, crack open the earth, burn the world, pollute, nuke all, get nature running wild, kill kill kill nature once and for all, turn america into one giant car engine cracking the earth and polluting like crazy, hate nature with all your guts, how I love to hate nature and punish nature, kill it fast, nuke the sun, nuke all, destroy, etc. show nature who the boss is!

As in unresolved conflicts, as in self against self, always more unresolved conflicts, ever more, internally torn.

Don't be a scaredy cat, build those trillions of cadillacs and skyscrapers, do it man, don't be a nature lover fairy, pua, pa, pa, pa chicken, pua, pa, pa, pa chicken, kill nature, be a man, don't be a girly girl fairy protecting "mother" nature... fairy, you mair, you fairy, pua, pa pa, pa ...


"Iran & NKorea are developing missiles that could reach out shores"

But the question really is, would they actually use them even if they had them? It would spell destruction not only of the leadership but probably most of the entire country and populace. What leader would want to blamed for that kind of apocalypse? This is why N. Korea has not launched any nukes at anyone, because the leaders there know they'd be vaporized if they did so.

Then you presume that we are the ones who should fear the Iranians. Given that America has the most powerful military in the world, by a long shot, shouldn't that be the other way around? Why do you think they want nukes in the first place? So they aren't invaded by American storm troopers like their hapless neighbors! It is completely disingenuous to say that we should fear Iran for its supposed potential to create nuclear weaponry, only a theoretical at this point, when we've invaded two of their neighbors. Their fears are far more rational than ours, as they plan for the reality of what has actually been occurring rather than using spin like "mushroom clouds over San Francisco" like the fear mongers here in the US.

That said, it all comes down to controlling the gigantic ME oil patch and the Strait of Hormuz. Iran has a natural, strategically strong position along the route where many oil tankers sail. So it could really throw a wrench into the works if a war started there. They could disrupt much of the global oil shipping. Some major chaos occurred there during the tail end of the Iran-Iraq War, when offshore platforms and tankers were hit, including Kuwaiti vessels that started flying the American flag for this very reason, and the US actually ended up intervening militarily to stop that conflict by shooting down some Iranian planes. That's a far more likely scenario that we're preventing rather than a nuclear weapons launch by Iran, which is a bit far fetched of a scenario.

Oh, no, not you again!

Then why don't you provide a link in the first place, rather than cut and paste to here?

Especially considering that said post is complete crap!

This weeks column start with:

Question du jour: why is Jon Corzine still at large?

Sadly your statistic about farm suicide becomes relevant. Highly Relevant.

The risk of farm suicide just went up.

Farmers Caught Up in MF Global Failure

MF Global's demise has now put business on hold for many farmers who executed trades through the firm and have had their accounts frozen, a fact Tofteland fears may be lost on many members of the public.

"What I'm worried about is that they think, 'Oh, this is just a bunch of bad speculators.' No, this is not about that," Tofteland said. "I'd raise a corn crop or I'd raise a soybean crop, and I'd go ahead and reduce my price risk using the markets."


"It's not that your concern with immigration is wrong, misguided, or misplaced. I'll stick my neck out and say that most readers here like reading what you have to say."

"Obsession can lead to depression when one tries to beat a dead horse however right you may be."
-kdog-

Thanks, kdog, and I appreciate your concerns.
But I don't really think I'm obsessed.

Although, I've got to say, regarding obsessions and CFN - That, for the regulars at least, this CFN discussion thread is like the rougher old bars of the South of my youth -

They searched you for weapons coming in the door - And if you didn't have one, they gave you one before they'd let you enter.
Thus, it is with obsessions, here at CFN.

So - I took myself, personally, through a standard checklist of standard US obsessions:

1. Clothes? - nope, I don't have that one
2. Big house obsession? - nope
3. Money? - not much of that either
4. Sex obsessed? - nope - OK, maybe a little

5. Concerned that the growing population of the United States due to LEGAL immigration will lead to cascading chains of ecosystem collapse that will reduce human survivability worldwide and leave the survivors in the US dying like flies as they fight over scraps of the American Dream turned nightmare?

So, maybe I have the one teeny, tiny, obsession, when I think about it. hah HAH!

Yeah, Turk, what you say is true. You were referring to an Einstein-Rosen bridge (aka a wormhole). Under some conditions wormholes could exist, although very unstable, such that they could collapse at any moment, thus making them an unreliable mode of transportation. That doesn't mean that at some future date science can't advance to the point where wormholes can be practical.

Another option is the creation of spacetime bubbles. As you probably know, the relativity speed limit only applies to travel through spacetime, not to spacetime itself. Although it's hard for me to comprehend, spacetime itself is a "thing", and at least once before has traveled many times the speed of light - just after the Big Bang, in a phenomenon called inflation. Since spacetime exists at all points, a way to travel FTL would be to take a bubble of spacetime that surrounds a spacecraft and accelerate that bubble past the speed of light. The spacecraft wouldn't be moving because it's in the bubble, but the bubble itselfwould carry it along.

This, too, is far-fetched, but Arthur C. Clarke famously stated that a super-civilization's science would be indistinguishable from magic to a lesser-advanced civilization. Interestingly, this is the science behind Star Trek's warp drive.

Unfortunately, although it's fun to imagine such things, it's best not to confuse science fiction with current reality.

"Relatively short, as your best ones usually are, because lots of words aren't necessary to really lay out a bad situation with the greatest impact."

"Evil men and seducers shall wax {grow} worse and worse, deceiveing and being deceived."

"and leave the survivors in the US dying like flies as they fight over scraps of the American Dream turned nightmare?"

Those of course being the lucky ones ;)

I should add to "...confuse science fiction...", unless we want to end up like Tegmark.

Hmmm. I drove past 3 fields the other day that weren't harvested.

Probably 50 or 60 acres of dried soybeans just sitting there.

I wondered what was going on.

I think it is amusing that you believe curtailing immigration into the US will somehow save the planet (presumably). Aren't these people who don't come here going to live someplace?

And, I've got news for you, the rest of the planet is trying its hardest to become like us in many ways, complete with obesity epidemics, clogged highways, intense energy usage, etc.

So it won't make much of a difference, I'd say.

Again - the US burns 25% of Earth's carbon. So most immigrants DRASTICALLY increase their impact by coming here.

IOW, what good does it due for us in the US to reduce, reuse, and recycle - when our population is going up so fast that US energy us (total, not per capita) is going up, regardless.

==========================
Plus how can we help other countries reduce their population increases - when we're letting ours go up so fast.

OK, Turkle, the Viet Cong did not lose "every" battle. But almost every news report from that time period provided "body counts" in which the Viet Cong lost more combatants than the USA. In total there were 275,000 combat deaths suffered by the South Vietnamese, almost 5 times the American total.

No, the lucky ones will be those who die quickly and do not have to endure the nightmare.

Yo, Beantown, Mr. Contrarian here. You say you like facts and numbers ... and then you write this:

Under some conditions wormholes could exist, although very unstable, such that they could collapse at any moment, thus making them an unreliable mode of transportation. That doesn't mean that at some future date science can't advance to the point where wormholes can be practical.

Under some conditions?

Could exist?

At any moment?

At some future date?

Can be practical?

Could you be any more vague?

It's worse than religious scripture!

God, sometimes it's SO embarrassing to be American.

Big, swaggering men, heavily armed and ready to shoot starving people, reduced to quivering, sniveling fear, on command, of people who have never done them harm.

Doesn't matter who - North Koreans, Iranians, Libyans, the French, if the corporate media turns its lying eyes on a target, then certain Americans swoon in fear, like the good Pavlovian dogs they are.

The most heavily armed, belligerent, lawless, terrorist force on the planet, but when we are told to be afraid of half-starved Koreans, a certain percentage of our brain-washed population, cowers on command.

Embarrassing.

K dog calling somebody obsessed is even funny to me. That's me calling the kettle black for sure but concentrating on your obsessions or mine misses the point.

Immigration is not OK to talk about in America, because it butts heads with neo-liberal contemporary capitalism and neo-liberal capitalism relies on the concept of 'Workforce Mobility'. People migrate because they have to, from necessity, often at great expense and danger but they do so as pawns in a much larger game.

How property ownership is defined, who has the right to sell and own one's labor are central issues which define ones political orientation. Nothing will piss off the 1% more than talking about immigration or overpopulation. Everything you say will be used against you and you are grabbing a tiger by the tail.

Actually, three million Vietnamese people lost their lives, asoka, because cowardly Americans feared the slippery slope of communism.

When they weren't looking fearfully under their beds, they were supporting the attack of a small country halfway around the world from them, dropping more bombs on that tiny country than were dropped in WW2.

That's the problem with cowardly Americans. If they just would hole up in their own homes, wrapped in plastic and duct tape, and mind their own business, it wouldn't be so bad.

But there are millions of people who have died due to American cowardice, and American willingness to kill others in order somehow to feel safer in their own lives.

Millions of people, minding their own business, going about their daily lives, living, loving and raising kids, only to have it all ripped away by US bombs or drones.

It's actually worse than embarrassing. It's shameful.

ProCon said: "the US burns 25% of Earth's carbon"

=======================

You have thrown this out several times, but I've never seen you cite a source.

In 2009 U.S. coal consumption decreased by 10.7 percent

In 2009 U.S. coal exports decreased by 27.5 percent

In terms of consumption, the USA consumes about 14% of the world total.

So, I'm just wondering where you get 25%. Perhaps that was true in 1975, but China and India are the up and coming consumers now. The USA is in decline.

Wage said: "Actually, three million Vietnamese people lost their lives, asoka..."

====================

If you up it to 3 million, I believe you have to include the illegal bombings and incursions into Laos and Cambodia.

But your point is well taken. I was just including combatants, not civilians. We murdered a mess of people with indiscriminate carpet bombing. We certainly were not "holding back" or being held back by congress. It was damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead. And we lost the war.

As Martin Luther King, Jr. said on April 4, 1967:

"My government, the most violent in the world"

I think it was Robert MacNamara who used that figure, years after the war ended, of course.

whew, i don t know how you missed it- i was trying to tell you it was a dream, an impossible dream...i have, however, heard the rumor floated somewhere that 'they' are building a craft in orbit to transport 'the best and brightest' out in it...shades of douglas adams indeed- what if they are, and will tell us they re going to mars, only...i say begone, and good riddance!

lbendet said: "a TV commentator stated that the poorest Americans are better off than the poorest in third world countries."

=====================

Whoever said that has not lived for any extended time in the third world. Ask Welles. Ask Dee Jones. I can confirm there experience because I lived among the poor in the so-called "third world" and they are much better off than their USA counterparts. In my own experience when I gashed my head open and had to go to a rural hospital I received top quality medical service from a nurse who cleaned the wound and a doctor who stitched me up. Because there is universal single payer health care, I paid less than three dollars co-pay for emergency room care, including the pain killers they gave me. Can't even get the pain killers for less than three dollars in the USA. Of course those third world countries don't spend half their budget on military/defense and they don't try to maintain hundreds of military based all around the world.

I look forward to the day the USA rises to the level of third world status and gets its priorities straight.

Being big consumers and having lots of toys (and debt) does not mean you have a higher quality of life than the third world.

There's always a reason to interfere overseas. Why are we risking WW3 by encircling Russia with missile bases and a proposed anti-missile shield? Iran. Oy Veh. Oh yes, Iran - which has not one warhead or a missile to carry it.

Dude, they're liars who do not represent our history and tradition. When the Russians tell us to git as we did them, will we? I don't it - too arrogant.

Meanwhile our gallant "ally" Israel has over 300 in violation of international law. They have threatened to incinerate Europe if things don't go their way. But you're not interested, are you?

that amount of soybeans would be harvested with one combine...the farmer probably couldn t afford the diesel...or maybe had his finances with corzine

of course, it s entirely possible he has futures contracts or whatever that failed to realize his profit margin, and they ve just been abandoned...i know, right?! but it happens...

"God, sometimes it's SO embarrassing to be American."

Sometimes?!

It's quantum mechanics, you know, the field where nothing is definite, just probabilities?

Have you started Pat's new book, Suicide of a Superpower yet? The subtitle is interesting: Will America Surive To 2025. Sir John Glubb would say yes, just. Check out his small work The Fate of Empires. He studied various Civilizations, and found that regimes or dynasties (not the Civilization itself) almost always ended after about 250 years. So 2025 is his date as well. Interesting if Pat came up with it independently.
Here it is:

http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

It's religious hocus-pocus, with invisible particles instead of invisible deities...

But it does allow people to get big research grants from the Church of Science, I mean "Big Science," the dominant paradigm of the 21st century.

http://www.garfield.library.upenn.edu/lilscibi.html

I am not anti-science, but I am anti-scientism, anti-materialism (thinking only matter exists).

In any event, I prefer science be in the service of humanity, science that meets basic human needs related to housing, clothing, food.

As a corollary, if everything is a brain, an observer, an abstract or potential observer, then the universe is not space - time but a monolithic slab of BRANIUM consisting of all the points in space and time, and all of the possible ensembles and delimitations across all the combination of points being brains, observers, etc. But if everything is a brain - observer, what are they decoding and observing ? other brains, themselves, the condensation of matter into pure consciousness, but many multiples of a never ending orthogonal array of minds, experiences and brains, Information Relationship.

But if everything is brains, there is no external reality, all is just a mind, a slab of mind. Tis a job for TOBOR THE EIGHT MAN! What does he suggest ? he suggests to keep an open mind, keep on experimenting, don't let the green nature lovers stop you...


TOBOR THE EIGHT MAN

Why don't you two get a room and explore the issue? Or just move to Canada.

The religious hocus pocus of Quantum Physics is directly responsible for the technology that drives the entire electronics industry, including the production of the computer upon which you posted your *guffaw* critique of it. Are you aiming for irony today?

I don't think they're letting us in anymore :(

including the production of the computer upon which you posted

===================

You mean the production wasn't done with Newtonian physics? Are you sure? Production is physical and does not really on "fuzzy" math or "fuzzy" physics.

I don't have a quantum computer, do you?

My computer is not non-deterministic or probabilistic. My computer does not have the ability to be in more than one state simultaneously. My computer knows its states and is very determined.

:)

CORRECTION

Production is physical and does not rely on "fuzzy" math or "fuzzy" physics.

Q-check: you gonna take this one?

A.,
I totally agree, that's propaganda. But that said, They feel no compunction about reducing most of us to poverty and that's their rationalization.

Sorry to burst the bubble, but a lot of sci fi is the equivalent of modern mythology.
--------------------------------------
Until it's not, then it becomes science. It's happened so often in history, citing instances should be an insult.

Science is a moving target Turkle, and if anything is obvious it's that you are not a scientist yourself. Scientists seldom have your reverence for the current state of understanding, which given our 400 years of experience, is pretty limited.

anybody think the us will really get into syria? or maybe head south into kenya, somalia and the rest of africa? seems like it would provide a bit of a boost for the war machine, and didn t they just discover oil in the region? i know there isn t nearly as much fun as there is in syria and iran, but there also isn t the chance of "fighting" russia AND china at once...i m really puzzled, and worried there might be some, as yet, unexplained reason for all the sabre-rattling over the ME- i mean, surely everyone knows that historically, china at least will blow up the world before they back down and lose face to us

Note that I made a qualified statement, dale. All I mean is that taking something like Star Trek and assuming we'll have it all someday is a tad naive.

You know what I meant. Don't get overly semantic on me. Quantum Mechanics includes the concept of electron tunneling, which is crucial to the function of modern microprocessors. And the transistor comes out of research that ultimately traces back to Quantum Physics.

So are you expressing your belief in Newtonian physics but not the Quantum variety?

So are you expressing your belief in Newtonian physics but not the Quantum variety?

================

Belief in Newtonian physics? Yes. Belief in Quantum physics? Yes. One of the greatest features of science is that it works as an algorithmic process of belief revision. No scientific belief can be said to be absolutely true, no matter how convincing it is. This is how science compensates for the faith it requires.

All scientific beliefs are wrapped in a protective condition: A scientific belief can only be true if the basic assumptions of science are true, and absolute certainty cannot be obtained due to the problems inherited from subjectivity. All scientific statements have a built in emergency exit! Beliefs are able to change in light of new evidence or ideas.

"the US burns 25% of the worlds carbon"
-P2C-

This was true until about the year 2000, but no longer is. Nice catch, a..

CO2 emissions are mostly produced by burning petroleum or coal. The US has not dramatically reduced it's consumption of oil or coal since 2000.
However, the Chinese have DRAMATICALLY increased their use of oil and coal since 2000.

As of 2008, the PERCENTAGE of CO2 emissions from the US has decreased to 18% of the world's total.
This is mostly because Chinese CO2 emissions have very rapidly increased to 23% of the worlds total.

And none of this takes into account the fact that some? of the pollution and CO2 from China is due to factories that have been running full tilt to SATISFY the US consumer. (in other words - we've exported responsibility for some of our carbon emissions to China)
http://en.wikipedia.org
wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

This link looks funny. May not post correctly.
Per capita CO2 emissions analysis to follow later this evening.

I tend to agree it's very late in the game and per CM's little illustration of exponential drowning in that metaphoric stadium it may be much later than we realize even among those paranoid cf'ers and that would include me. Still we may be wrong about the timing and severity and maybe there are some white swans lurking in the space-time. I know I know.

CO2 emissions from the US has decreased to 18% of the world's total.

=========================

So, ProCon, does that mean if a Mexican wades across the Rio Grande there is a chance that his or her act of becoming an immigrant to the United States might not make the Planet uninhabitable? :)

White swans! I love it.

The chance of a White Swan Event should be equally probable to that of a Black Swan event, if not more probable.

Maybe an entrance exam is needed to run for President. The country screens other things, like a bar exam for lawyers, a police academy for cops, an exam to become an accountant. But anybody with money and an ability to repeat themselves can run for President. An entrance exam might put a stop to people like Herman Cain thinking Uzbekistan was somebody he went to grade school with and stuff. Or Michelle Bachmann thinking John Quincy Adams was old enough to be important in the Revolutionary War.

But which fox will be guarding the henhouse?

So - everyone wants to know how much CO2 is emitted by a typical US resident, as compared to a typical Chinese resident, or a typical Mexican resident.

This goes directly to a conversation Turkle and I had, just today. And it comes up frequently on CFN, when immigration is discussed.

Here are the figures - in TONS of CO2 per resident per year - as of 2008.

US - 17.5 tons per resident per year
China - 5.3 tons per resident per year
Mexico - 4.4 tons per resident per year

So - every person who emigrates out of Mexico and into the US, automatically increases his impact on Global CO2 emissions -

by a factor of FOUR TIMES.
(17.5/4.4=3.97)

You see what I mean, Turkle. A Mexican resident has one-fourth of the impact on the Planet - year after year after year - just because he stays home with his family.
========================
You guess somebody ought to give the Sierra Club these numbers. Nah - they sold out long ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

Anyone who cannot parallel park should not allowed to be president. That includes you, Mr. Hawking.

I have seen the video many times. I agree that casting a vote for the "viable" candidate as proclaimed by the talking head election handicappers is a bad joke.

Without instant runoff/ranked voting staying home has more meaning.

Ist das nicht ein Internet?

Ja! Das ist ein Internet!

The Heart beats on the Left even if it is centered. Likewise, we mustn't be afraid of "Fascist" of Leftist tendencies. All Democracies so called or Republics organize in times of crisis, be it natural disaster or war.

Thanks for this link, Ib. I listened to a 16 minute radio interview that at one point had me laughing harder than I have in quite awhile. Well, yesterday now that I think of it. :o) It's in the second part of the talk when he is asked what he would do if Kucinich were elected Pres and he appoint his economic adviser, and specifically regarding the certain members of the Supreme Court. I hope I didn't ruin it for you.

HTTP://MICHAEL-HUDSON.COM/

Mexicans who movehere have larger families than ones who stay in Mexico...or so Ive read.

Heres how the Lamestram Media frames the Immigration [cough] Debate:

From Yahoo News.
POSTVILLE, Iowa—A group of Jewish boys in yarmulkes and winter coats walked past the "Taste of Mexico" restaurant on Lawler Street last week on their way home from school. Minutes later, a Somali man wearing a keffiyeh scarf around his neck passed by, perhaps on his way to the town's makeshift mosque on Main Street.

This 'improbably diverse rural town' of about 2,000 people in northeastern Iowa suffered a near-fatal shock more than three years ago when a federal immigration raid scooped up 20 percent of its population in a single day.

An ultra-Orthodox Lubavitcher Jewish family from Brooklyn bought the town's defunct meatpacking plant in 1987 and attracted workers from Israel, Eastern Europe, and Latin America.

The plant became the largest producer of kosher beef in the world. When the plant was raided one spring morning in May 2008, most of the workers on shift were Guatemalan and Mexican, and undocumented.

Many workers later said they had been physically or sexually abused at the plant, and at least 57 minors were illegally employed there, some as young as 13.

Six months later, the plant shut down abruptly. Sholom Rubashkin, the chief executive, was convicted of fraud and sent to prison. The national and local news media documented the near-demise of the town that followed, as businesses were shuttered overnight and hundreds of homes abandoned. The town shrank to nearly half its former size, as many of the illegal immigrants who were not netted in the raid left out of fear or because they couldn't find a job

"Most people focus on the illegals. You've made the legals your cause celebre and now presto, the illegals are now the good guys. America is a broken record:" -vlad-

I didn't say the illegals were "the good guys."
But focusing on illegals devolves immediately into the racist blah/blah/blah name calling that asoka. and a couple of others (well, mostly asoka) engage in every week regarding immigration on CFN.

And illegal numbers are TINY compared to what's coming our way over the next 25* years. Focusing on LEGAL immigration is an attempt to cut through the Gordian Knot - take the United States to a goal of "Replacement Level" immigration - and maybe save some of the US from some of the coming die-off.

*25 years -
Time to collapse matters.
If it's one year - immigration doesn't matter.
If it's 50 years - the US will be such a big unmanageable disaster - that I'll be glad I'm gonna be dead.

It's gonna suck for the kids, though.

Blago goes down for 14 big ones. But his hair still looks great. His wife is standing beside her chimp.

every person who emigrates out of Mexico and into the US, automatically increases his impact on Global CO2 emissions - by a factor of FOUR TIMES. (17.5/4.4=3.97)

Nifty misuse of numbers, ProCon. You trying to impede dialog?

As soon as a Mexican crosses the border, are they given a 4,000 sq. ft. McMansion? No. Are they given a gas guzzling SUV land yacht? No.

See the fallacy in your numbers? Chances are the immigrants will migrate to large cities and will be sharing one housing unit (8 to 10 persons sharing rent), will be taking public transportation (buses, subways, etc.)

Now do you see the fallacy in your numbers?

Even immigrants who have been here years and are established are not rich enough to afford the inefficient carbon-hungry life-style of the foolish gringos.

Immigrants I know, who do eventually buy a used car, buy an economical car not a large gas guzzler that they cannot afford to put gas in. They never buy the big McMansion. They share an apartment and share transportation. They don't have three-car garages in the suburbs, they do not provide every teenage child with their own car.

Now do you see the fallacy of your numbers?

I could go on illustrating the differences, but I think you get the idea.

Billions of dollars are sent back to Mexico because the immigrants have no intention of trying to become gringos. What they want to do is support their own families in Mexico and save enough money to be able to buy a "casita" or "ranchito" in Mexico and get the hell out of this country, where there is so much discrimination against and hostility towards immigrants, with laws like those in Arizona and Alabama, with Obama gone wild deporting people, and with groups like those you belong to and support financially, ProCon.

You didn't have to say it - it's how the ordinary human mind works. Who cares if People like me call them names - it's what they do and don't do which matters. Just to play Devil's Advocate and do what you just did but in reverse: the Legals are law abiding and highly educated. They pay their taxes and keep their lawns clean. Good neighors who become good citizens. And they'll stop coming on their own once we're a 3rd World Country. So we wont have to be mean and manly and deport them. Whereas the illegals will keep coming as long as America is better than a worsening Mexico - a very long way to fall indeed.

So what if Whites become a minority? Who says a Nation needs a center? So what if it no Nation has ever survived the death of the Founding Race -we're Americans! No laws, including the laws of mathematics, genetics, economics, and physics apply to us.

"The good news this week is that there may be a habitable planet only 600 light years away. I hope Richard Branson gets to work on commercial space travel to the planet (Kepler 22 B) real soon. Maybe we can get the hell out of here while the getting is still good."

Ummmm.... like you will be able to afford a ticket? Or even be offered one? Why do you think the

But on the other hand, someone mentioned getting out from under the skyscraper as it starts to fall? Guess I did just that. Have fun on the way down. Hope you don't land on Vlads head... or do land on it. Whatever.
:]

What are you some kind of Anti-Semite or somthin? Jews CANNOT do anything wrong. They are the Chosen and everyone else merely exist to serve them as per the Talmud.

"Saudi oil production has topped 10 million bpd. Perhaps Matt Simmons was wrong about 'Twilight in the Desert."
But it was supposed to be over 12MBPD by now. Seems they can't make that anymore. Have they peaked?
All these Q's & more can be answered over at TOD.

:}

Let's sign up - and become the new Adam and Steve.

"See the fallacy in your numbers? Chances are the immigrants will migrate to large cities and will be sharing one housing unit" -asoka.-

First of all - I thought all the immigrants were out in the fields "doing work Americans won't do" and "keeping us from starving."

Now you've got them in the cities - driving cabs Americans won't drive, I guess. And doing nails Americans won't do. Amazing.

===========================
And actually - Mexico has a large first world economy. Those people in "first world" Mexico don't emigrate. So the ones who do immigrate are responsible for far LESS of Mexico's 4.4 tons of CO2 per person per year, than are the emigrees.

Fallacy of numbers cuts both ways.

---------------------
--------------------
And I do think, asoka - that you harm the thread when you make yourself the Sole Appointed Spokesperson For Growth And Immigration into The United States.

Pretty much no one but you ever responds in the negative to me about immigration. Turkle did today. Mila51 did once.

I think the thread must be in general agreement with me on the topic - but who can tell, since you answer EVERY single question - before anyone else can get to it.

Let some other people have a chance to respond, why don't you? Maybe someone will think of something that you have not thought of.

Maybe we could both learn something.

i submit that it doesn t matter if the bird is sick (legal or not); and since using "LEGAL" every time looks to some like 'thou protesteth too much' about the whole racism issue- which only muddies the issue, you might consider the simple expedient of just saying 'immigration'...and you may remember i ve already told you i understand the distinction; i m only trying to help- so please don t feel attacked...personally, i already feel the same way on some of the issues you raise, and have felt the pinch in my wages since the mid- 90's, so i for one don t give a flying fuck at a rake if i m undercut by a green card or not...any way, poice out...

Those billions of dollars being sent over the border belong in our Economy, Soaker.

Those millions of jobs belong to Americans, Soaker.

Blacks usually vote for their interests - much smarter than goofy Whites who vote in terms of everything under the sun - ideology, human rights, ecology, Blax, racoons, etc. But on this one, Blacks have let their hatred of Whites blind them to their best interestes. No group is hurt more by the Mexican invasion than Blacks. And that's both in terms of unskilled labor and competition at the social trough.

Oh, you were so close. Gotta have bodies if you want to occupy. Yeah, I know. Look at how they acted in Iraq. It should tell you that the people in charge really are the product of the upbringing and really don't have a clue. Including Kucinich. I kinda' liked him. Hope he doesn't have an airplane accident.

"So what if Whites become a minority?"
-vlad-

Vlad, that's been baked into the cake since the 1965 immigration law and the laws that followed.
Whites WILL become a minority in the United States.

I think - like everything else, surprise, surprise, that a White minority country is less of a problem at 350,000,000 residents instead of 500,000,000.

But then I tend to believe lower population makes ALL US problems better.

-----------------------
Asoka. does provide a useful service. There really are lots of folks in American life who will not be happy until we descend into 3rd world miasma*. There are many others who think Whites can never suffer or give up enough to make up for the period 1776 to 1864, those 88 years when ALL of the World's mistreatment of minorities became the fault of Western Culture and the United States.

I feel doomed. Nobody gloat too loud.

*miasma - I know there are wonderful and redeeming characteristics to be found in 3rd world countries. But I've got a suspicion that those characteristics will not transfer to the US very well. We've got too many TV's. And too much fast food. And shift work and long commutes.

Why would anyone really want to come here?
Spread the word, people.

And I guess I'll see you at the ramparts, Vlad.

What I notice is that when I present arguments for immigration, and I presented ten in one previous answer, instead of responding to the substance of my post, you attack me personally, speak of me in the third person to warn everyone about Asoka.

It is not true that I respond to every post you make. I have often let your posts slide, but there comes a point when I choose to respond. And I respond with facts and numbers and logical arguments because I believe you are harming the United States with your anti-immigrant attitude and your anti-immigrant actions.

Y tus supuestas razones por discriminar contra los imigrantes son infundadas.

Look! Tim Geitner's holding the door! Y'all come in and just fuck like crazy. Isn't a miasma that champagne cocktail with the fruit added?

And another thing. I'm kinda pissed that there are black and white pictures circulating of me getting beat up by Indiana cops in the 70's protesting for African American rights. What? We're protesting for the Hindus now? Can you wait till I get my bandages off?

"and since using "LEGAL" every time looks to some like 'thou protesteth too much'"
-CF-

I actually started that, on here, about 2-3 months ago. A couple of people made comments to me that showed they were completely and hopelessly conflating immigration and illegal immigration.
One of them was SNAFU, very intelligent man, now missing from the thread.

And unfounded charges of racism leveled against a white man - do piss me off - because they stop all honest discussion, in politics where I live and work.

And racism comes up almost immediately - when discussing immigration - because of the illegals, who are not LEGAL, btw. hah!

It's an endless circle jerk in Georgia and National politics. But I believe that DOOM is starting to breath heavily, as though it may be close to climax.

Anywho - thanks for the input, CF.

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Whatever.

Sting-a-ding-ding!

Y siempre será el impedimento residente, el Sr. cortar y pegar, y el halcón círculos de la corrección política - en cualquier idioma.

I'm looking out over the veldt. The zebras are hangin' out with the Zebras, giraffes with giraffes, wildebeasts with the same, lions, well, no one really hangs out with the lions. Wonder why the monkeys are beatin' up on each other. Oh yeah, intelligence.

You're not a blogger. You're an institution.

That's assuming the figures are accurate. Where does the 10 million bpd figure ultimately come from? The Saudis?

Bill, Bill, Bill,

Tell me for I do not know. Has Saudi Aramco allowed an independent audit of their petroleum holdings?

most of those arguments were fallacious at best, at least in my experience here in my city...ok, so they have a bunch of roommates- notice the trend is greatly expanding among most of the 99? look, all the arguments about work we won t do are bullshit, the problem is that given sovereign borders, and corporations driven by the bottom line, the immigrants are being used as levers to greatly depress wages for everyone- while prices have gone up it is so entrenched and tacitly approved by all but the working class, that anything short of a fundamental and systemic reset- in all the governments involved, and in the ultranational corporations, is too little, too late- if even enough i m not the first to posit here that if everyone was making a decent living AT HOME, then the little bit of population shift ocurring in various countries would be a non-issue...leaving the more important issues to work on

This a the prelude to an earlier quote. From Richard Pryor:

"Shortage of white folks. Y'all quit fuckin?"

What's happening to Japan? What's happening to western Europe? A thirty year mortgage in the face of sporadic employment.

This weeks rant takes me back to the days of "whitewater." The pubs managed to spend 400 million figuring out that billy and hillary were doing the same crap as themselves.

Kinda reiterating my rant since 2008 - which laws get enforced and which ones get ignored.

Yeah - crazy times indeed. And the craziest part - getting the rest of the fucking crowd to even notice..........

You simply MUST give me odds on Corzine.

what - no problem - nothing to see here...????

the occupy movement is the first comprehensive attempt in this country to try to address the economic disparity WHICH IS AT THE ROOT OF ALL THE ILLS AFFECTING THIS WORLD...so whatever one thinks of any individual involved, one must give due credit for their trying to do something about it... wal-street was only the beginning, now occupy mainstreet, then congress, the whitehouse, and the supreme court...GSA must be taken back by We The People, just like it says in plain language in the Constitution...

$600,000,000 to one he laughs all the way to purgatory- like them odds?!

You better believe I give those ballsy young mofos credit. Let me know when the assembled ranks are at one million. Spent some time in "their" jails. At my age, I'm not in a big hurry to revisit that. At one million, I think I can slip away.

To fight another day.

The real horror is in my beliefs. There is no purgatory. To me, looks like he got away with it.

i know, that was just an expression

Yes and I despise the Republicans on this one in particular. For years they were lax saying it will never happen. And then they flipped and started saying it was inevitable - and they became intensely interested in getting their vote - which they can't unless they BECOME the Democrate Party. They should have become the de facto White Party years ago but instead they became what the late Sam Francis called, "the Stupid Party".

i just clicked on jerry up there ^, and it goes to a blog called eye on washington, right? so i m reading an article about purosefully defaulting on underwater motgtages, and it poses the statement that if you don t agree with honoring a debt, click here: well, it is a fascinating article about the history of "odious debts" which, among other things, posits that bush & obama administration officials are LEGALLY, PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL MONETARY DEBTS INCURRED which harm us, the citizens, including but not limited to, that spent on agressive wars...like i said, fascinating, and there s much more; i HIGHLY recommend taking the time to read it...

One thing I've always wondered in these arguments about immigration is why the leftists never blame the Mexican upper classes or the Mexican government for not providing employment opportunities and education for their poor citizens. There are some very rich people in Mexico, billionaires, why aren't they ever blamed?

Instead it's always the American middle class that gets hammered by the liberals. They're selfish, they're racist. Why not ever blame the people who are actually responsible?

i for one always have; it doesn t take much of an intellect to realize that you would be coming here yourself, in their shoes...

Just for everyone's info, the comment posted by 'VNRWANDKHB' seems to be a spam advertisement in Japanese for knockoff watches and handbags.

You can copy some of it and paste it into 'Google Translate' if you like.

Talk about suspension of civilization...

Not particularly new information for this blog but well presented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ-J91SwP8w

Vlad sez "He found most Nations (distinct from Civilizations) last 250 years give or take a few. Ten generations. We are on this exact trajectory so we will split up by 2025 or so."

OK theory except America didn't start fighting aggressive wars until the Mexican-American war of 1846. Therefore this century or at least the first half is in the bag for us. We're still fighting offensive wars.

Intellect my ass, you missed the point completely.

Ever see the movie waiting to exhale? But first you have to inhale. The blood needs oxygen as does the brain. People live on dead aire. How can they think true thoughts?

Our borders are broken and we are beset by Warrior Bands. Imperial Hubris keeps us in far off lands while we should be here defending our borders and expelling the barbarians. It is late in the Day - the light is on top of the buildings and in the gathering shadown hideous forms are coming out of the decayed structures. Run if you value your lives. Leave the decaying cities to the Mongrel Monsters they have created. Seek the Wastelands. Our Ancestors grew strong in the ice and snow and so shall we. And - someday, a chastened and strengthened Race shall take back the lands their corrupt ancestors gave away so glibly for a mess of pottage.

You may offer up a valid objection his theory though. Perhaps we could say America is falling rapidly but the NWO is still trying for World Conquest and fighting offensive wars. This is obviously outside the scope of his theory. But as I mentioned to Bossier, the situation is far beyond that of one Nation - the whole West is involved and is threatend.

Again the parallel of China: even after China was united, many Dynasties came and went. Same with Ancient Egypt. But China is still going strong but Egypt began to sicken long ago - the last couple of Dynasties were too weak to throw off foreign influence and influx. Finally it fell and never regained its autonomy. I fear the same for us. The Ptolemies were a Greek/Egyptian amalgam. The Romans ended that and brought in ultimately a new Culture of Christianity. And then Islam after that. Of Ancient Egypt, all that is left are the Tombs, Statues, and Pyramids. What will be left of us?

I've occasionally been present for similar tirades, although minus the battery, on public transit. My all-time favorite was a nonstop discussion on the LA Metro Blue Line, all the way from Metro Center to 103rd Street, about ghetto-ass bitches who know they ugly, whose hair always gonna be nappy, and who need a whack on the head. When I heard the words "she just a ghetto-ass bitch!," I immediately broke into a beaming smirk because the lady had described herself and her friend to a T. Another classic involved a lady on the SEPTA 61 bus in Philadelphia, which runs along the truly ghetto-ass Ridge Avenue through postwar Dresden hellholes like Strawberry Mansion, yelling, "I'm gonna cut that bitch! I ain't gonna do any damage, but I'm gonna cut that bitch!" The driver was disgusted with her but too mild-mannered to follow through on his threat to eject her from the bus. When she finally got off the bus, having stood in the doorway for maybe ten seconds offering some final thoughts about that bitch who needed to be cut, one of the two very quiet elderly black gentlemen sitting near me said to the other one, "It figures that she lives in the projects."

The critical thing about SEPTA drivers is that they don't mind talk but don't tolerate action. You may be able to get away with yelling about cutting that bitch, and you can definitely get away with yelling harmless psychotic musings about the family that you used to have on Torresdale Avenue, but if you so much as jump fare the driver will have cops on the bus in two minutes, tops. There are probably as many violent people on SEPTA's buses as there are on its subways, but there's almost no violence on the buses because the hoodlums know that there's a teacher at the front of the room who doesn't like the students acting out.

There's also a broader point that I'd make about the difference between rudeness and violence. The nutcase at Lunardi's seems to have straddled the line. Being pegged with a cup of coffee by an openly foulmouthed wingnut may technically be violence, but it doesn't necessarily pose a threat to life or limb.

On the other hand, actual physical contact isn't necessary to establish a clear and present threat of violence if the aggressor is demonstrating other clearly belligerent behaviors, such as obstructing a street, throwing punches at a bicyclist and calling him "Whitey." I was on the receiving end of exactly that at the corner of Frankford and Venango Avenues in NE Philadelphia in 2007. Granted, that's a place where the White Man best be out by sundown, but the real blame of course lies with Crouching Hoodlum, whom I saw hide in front of a minivan before jumping out at me, and his buddy. I never did that sort of thing to blacks visiting my part of Center City from the ghetto when I lived there, so I expected ghetto residents not to do that sort of thing to me when I'm in their neighborhoods; this wasn't an expectation in the sense of my being surprised that thugs might jump me, but in the sense of my believing that thugs belong in prison for jumping strangers. Luckily, these dudes knew better than to be the prime suspect for Whitey lying in a pool of blood on Frankford Avenue, even if they liked the idea in principle, so they stood down in a hurry when I shouted for the police.

One thing that really scares me is cops who automatically assume that anyone with his hands in his pockets is reaching for a gun. I saw an Arcata police officer, Ron Sligh, do that last night in the course of his unduly aggressive response to a call from two bar bouncers who were pissed off at a customer who was yelling at them for having thrown him to the floor without provocation. Sligh seems to be one of those hotheads with no interpersonal skills or street smarts who just shouldn't be a cop. I've always gotten a weird vibe from him, but last night he was a lot worse than usual. Unfortunately, he isn't the only thug that POST didn't strain out during the application process.

The huge problem with cops behaving rudely in such situations is that their offices and their weapons carry a tremendous implicit threat of violence, one that is easily carried out without cause by those who are stupid or malicious. Undisciplined cops scare me a lot more than a shit-talking lady wielding a coffee cup at the deli.


Correction on previous post:

(by the way, where are all the hot ladies, I liked it when they attacked me, since I am a loser, a miserable loser...come on San Jose Mommy and Alexandra talk to me please, pretty please (NOT!) crack open your skulls and stick a lot of wild stuff in it sluts...) QUO VADIS BABY ?...(as in towards the end of Last Tango in Paris...)

"which means that the particle's faster-than-light motion means that it "arrives" before it "left".

It gets worse when you pull in standard Relativistic Quantum Mechanics about density, length, and mass increases in particles of non-zero rest mass (the neutrino is about 1.5eV). Any nonzero rest mass goes to infinity when speed C is reached, density becomes infinite, and size becomes zero. In other words, this neutrino becomes a SINGULARITY."

It is not absurd, only our mind - logic - language and neural circuits are not capable of making any possible sense of it, sense for us, for how we are, for our "Intentionality of Use", for how the logic is inserted in an already completely constructed logical system (requiring millions of circuits and years of life to develop).

The EFFECT BEFORE THE CAUSE is outside of our range of understanding, it is not the universe that is limited, but our manipulation of the universe, our understanding and logical description of the universe that is limited and will always be limited by the limited number of neural circuits and the limited combination of concepts our mind, in this present design, can conceive.

Therefore, change the Man Brain, design a new one, etc.

Bustin, are you sill a tree hugger ? Do you still like nature ? You must be educated: kill nature, crack open the earth, burn the world, pollute, nuke all, get nature running wild, kill kill kill nature once and for all, turn america into one giant car engine cracking the earth and polluting like crazy, hate nature with all your guts, how I love to hate nature and punish nature, kill it fast, nuke the sun, nuke all, destroy, etc. show nature who the boss is!

As in unresolved conflicts, as in self against self, always more unresolved conflicts, ever more, internally torn.

Don't be a scaredy cat, build those trillions of cadillacs and skyscrapers, do it man, don't be a nature lover fairy, pua, pa, pa, pa chicken, pua, pa, pa, pa chicken, kill nature, be a man, don't be a girly girl fairy protecting "mother" nature... fairy, you mair, you fairy, pua, pa pa, pa ...


That was from:

http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177441

Warning ! Warning! This thred has been officially hijacked by TOBOR AN APE MAN!

TOBOR AN APE

A response to C. Temple

Why are we blamed for Mexico's problems?

And by the way, we seem to be moving in the same directions. The banks stopped loaning to our small business in 2008, which is why so many of our business failed, or laid off people. (that's after the tax-payers bailed them out) Mexico's banks don't lend to those who want to start businesses. The rich are getting richer...you know what I'm getting at.

There are lots of reasons why Mexico didn't develop a strong middle class, but although the rich in Mex. do nothing to help their country, NAFTA didn't help and then moving away from there and going to China instead, didn't help.

Under our influence they developed factory farms in our image and many farmers went out of business.

The drug issues are horrendous, but don't think someone here isn't making oddles of bucks while money laundering in the oh, so lawful banks.

The fault lies with the internal politics, and economics of the country to begin with, but we sure made it worse.

It's globalism at work and that's our crazy ideology which we've imposed on everyone else in the world. Mexico just gets to be lucky to border our country.

did not; if the mexican elite and govt didn t have a tacit agreement with our own to keep conditions so deplorable for the little guy in order to maintain the status quo; then most would feel no need to come here to make a living...if that isn t what you meant; would you please elaborate?

Ignoring for a moment a war that forcibly took land from Mexico, and a bogus treaty that was changed to continue taking land from Mexico, there are things happening today which places the blame on the United States for Mexico's problems.

Today Mexico is in a fight for its life because of the drug war. The United States is to blame in two ways: supply and demand. USA southbound weapons trafficking (the supply side) fuels the war in Mexico, and USA drug trafficking (the demand side) fuels the war in Mexico.

Drug traffickers in Mexico are motivated by the demand for illegal drugs in the United States and that those same drug traffickers are armed by the transport of weapons from the United States.

It's not as simple as saying "Why don't Mexico's rich do something?" We are creating the corrupt rich in Mexico through our USA drug culture.

Yes, your right I would probably be denied a ticket but as it turns out the planet is unfit human life anyway because of high surface gravity.

It really is interesting to observe the "news" with detachment, and see the agenda that is behind it.

For example, FOX News is doing their best to anoint Romney, over Gingrich and Paul. This piece by Geraldo Rivera - is aimed at the more "liberal" Republicans - or maybe at the errant Democrat, who happened to wander into FOX News Latino.

Rivera did take one really cheap shot at Gingrich, but something that only the most "intelligent?" of Republican primary voters is likely to understand.

"It is doubtful that Newt Gingrich has ever spent quality time in a ‘really poor’, inner-city public housing project. He probably has more first-hand knowledge of the hallowed ground under Pickett’s doomed Charge at Gettysburg in 1863 than he does about low-life in high-rise poverty in New York or Chicago in 2011"

Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2011/12/08/geraldo-rivera-newt-gingrich-bold-but-dopey/#ixzz1fxG2dXqr

We're doomed, I realized last night. Four more years of Corporate Obama, or four years of Romney - either outcome is another big nail in the coffin for America's middle class - regardless of race, creed, or color.

BTB, you're right. Voting the rascals out is not a solution. Which one of those ideas, 1-10, is your BEST idea?


pro: some thoughts on the subject: when i first started reading this site, i thought that, while personally agreeing with some of your views, you were beating a dead horse in the sense that, while valid, they re not the most urgent issues facing our society- so why keep bringing it up when people are losing their homes and healthcare and everything else...i used to think that since we live in a society that is so fucked up on so many fronts we couldn t possibly fix it all at once, therefore we would have to pick a starting point and fix each issue separately- nearly an impossible task; we re fucked...the realization is that each problem has its section of population that is most affected, and we need "specialists" as it were, to gather a following and that when enough people to make a difference become aware and willing, then a sort of natural selection will determin in which order we do fix things- and not necessarily one at a time...this is to say that i realize that your repetition is exactly what is called for; each issue we face needs a champion, and those issues that resonate with us the most will be addressed as they rise in the consciousness and are given the focus and attention of We The People at large...so carry on, macduff, with not just my tolerance but acceptance and well wishes, even if the agreement on ideology and methods is not total

"they became what the late Sam Francis called, "the Stupid Party" -vlad-

Indeed, Vlad. And along the way Republicans turned independent minded Christians in a once prosperous middle class - into the Blunt Instrument known as The Moral Majority, or some other such name.

YOU let it happen - all of YOU who swallowed and enabled the Globalist and Corporatist agenda of Neo-Con Republicans -

While voting for the worst of ANY of these Right Wing sleezballs - in a pointless effort to "save the fetuses" and "stop gay marriage."

Bah!

"carry on, macduff, with not just my tolerance but acceptance and well wishes, even if the agreement on ideology and methods is not total"
-CF-

Thanks, cf, I needed that. And here is the place, CFN, to point out your own REASONS for disagreement on ideology and methods. (like you did yesterday re "LEGAL")

That's the way consensus is formed - and perhaps the way disaster is averted.

That's why it is very helpful when asoka. stops dominating the CFN thread like he owns the place -
This lets more nuanced disagreements bubble into the conversation.

White swans! I love it.

The chance of a White Swan Event should be equally probable to that of a Black Swan event, if not more probable.
------------------------------------------
I agree, both are possible, but those who suggest we have plateaued, in terms of technological progress, have no idea what they are talking about.

but instead they became what the late Sam Francis called, "the Stupid Party".
------------------------------
Actually, more the "Stupid Whites Party".

In BRAINIUM everything is an observer, everyhing is a brain, a brain is observing Information relationships which themselves are other brains and processing the signals with circuits which themselves are new modified brains (everything is a special modified brain executing a special observations (according to how that new brain is designed and how it reciprocally explores and interacts and fits in its environment according to its quirk design) upon a universe with new laws of physics and new experiences),every atom, every elementary particle is an observer - brain. But the information itself it perceives and outputs in reaction is itself ever new brains, ever new observers, a never ending array of universes.

But if the observer sees the universe with their brains, and the signals and information received and emitted themselves are brains, then the information must become real through event circuits that execute some reality condensation through pain/pleasure systems or similar (since information (brain types) is just denotation (other brain types, etc.), symbols, pictures which by definition do not exist in any possible way except as ghosts), but this is not the naive infinite world model of quantum mechanics, it is a world of denotation become real, through observers, each observing each other and creating new realities because each brain - observer is a new universe.

BRAINIUM - that material where every elementary particle, every entity discernable, inventable, immaginable, everything you see, any combination of things and concepts and ideas, any possible relationship you can invent, all Information Relationships, no matter how unrelated and far off, every combination of entities, photons, atoms, electrons, every possible thing is a specially designed brain observing a new universe. Out universe is one huge monolithic slab of BRAINIUM.

That chair plus the pebble 100 miles away plus a chunk of the Sun plus the square root plus a number plus 69 plus 8 plus a book is one particular brain, is one particular observer viewing a new universe, is a singularity, and Instant Singularity achieved living a full real life in a new world...now invent any other combination, we live in BRAINIUM...

Am I doing ok now San Jose Mommy and Alexandra ? Is my homework good enough now ? can I go out to play in the backyard now ? or must I stay and continue to finish my homework ?...


AN APE


some of us think it s directly related to our social progress, or lack thereof, that plateaued (Q?) long ago, and that technological progress means less than nothing if we don t get our act together...pick a metric, suh, and see if i know what i m talking about...

...and regarding tech progress, we might be better off in the new paradigm to "regress" to a more simple time frame, in terms of re-learning some basics: like how to use hand saws, axes, planes and chisels for woodworking instead of power tools- which will be increasingly useless in an elictrically starved world...or how to set up a passive solar still and water heater for drinking and bath water, for the same reason...do you know how to can food on a fire in the yard? it aint easy, but it can be done...how about using a mirror to communicate from hilltop to hilltop? the zombies are coming...can you kill, butcher, and preserve a deer without refrigeration? it involves a fire in the yard...shall i go on, or do you really believe the juggernaut will just keep stumbling into the future, fueled by some magic alternative to the depleted resources around us??! lemme know how that works out for ya...

Be apprised,
We are truly besieged by distractionary fuckwits who willingly play the propaganda con game on us, in the guise of "sincere interlocutors".

Case in point: the laddie and his self-referential unholy trinity (of which he be the titular head).

I must take firm issue with P2C on this. Collectively, "they" add nothing to the pondering of what really happened to bring us to the very edge of collapse (and soon to spill over). About the only thing of "value" they bring is how to spot a tool of the status quo (which is killing us, BTW). Guess what? It wasn't the stupid, lazy brown folks that did this to you.

THAT IS A DISTRACTION. (Which is exactly what the scum who have risen to the surface want.)

Charlie's response to Caleb was entirely reasonable; we're not stupid enough to believe that the Mexican oligarchs are benevolent saints who care deeply for their resident underclass. The deplorable state that Mexico is in, is due to a lack of justice! Welcome to the preview of the FUSA.

We know who's responsible for this global clusterfuck, and I'm not about to be "convinced" otherwise by useful tools of the plutocrats.

Here's one for those who actually "get it".
The rest can slumber on and blame precisely the wrong people for their multiple troubles. Keep your places in line to kiss the ring of those who despise you...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29915.htm

Ps. The article brings us back around to the topic at hand for the week! Isn't that a strange and delightful twist of fate?

Truth at its core ages slowly. The precepts in this portion of Meher Baba's message to America, circa 1930's, will be very familiar to all who share on this blogsite.

The root of all our difficulties, individual and social, is self-interest. It is this, for example, which causes corruptible politicians to accept bribes and betray the interests of those whom they have been elected to serve; which causes bootleggers to break, for their own profit, a law designed