Going Apeshit


     It was amusing to see President Obama try to align himself with the OWS movement. The genial Millard Fillmore update asked them not to "demonize those who work on Wall Street." Of course, demonization proceeds from the failure of this president and his appointed agents in authority to subject those who work on Wall Street to the laws that mere mortals are supposed to follow in money matters. Hence, those who work on Wall Street appear to be something other than mortals. And since their work (on Wall Street) has had a malign influence on the common weal, some might leap to the conclusion that they are malevolent non-mortals, i.e. demons.
     In this early stage of the convulsion rocking the western world, especially here in the USA, a peaceful ambience rules. That is because a game is being played. We played the game in 1968. It goes like this. You get people to turn out in the streets. The idea is to promote the right of public assembly as much as to make any particular point. (In fact, banners advocating all sorts of gripes appear.) Eventually, you get a lot of people in the streets. Feelings of happy anarchy sweep the crowd, a feeling that something special is underway, that the usual rules of everyday conduct have been suspended, in a good way. The crowd basks in the sunny glow of its own mass, happy solidarity. Everybody is behaving splendidly - more to feel good about.
      After a while that gets boring, especially for young males with a lot of testosterone surging from loin to brain. They want to do more than bask in the radiance of their own righteous wonderfulness. They want to engage their large muscles, even if in the service of an idea, for instance the idea that they have been swindled. It is at first a vague idea, but large.  But pretty soon it coheres emergently: swindled out of our future! Yes, it is so. Thousands of demon-like beings upstairs in the curtain-wall towers around Zuccotti Park, people wearing neckties and cultured pearls in warm offices with cappuccino machines down the hall, are at this very moment setting loose trading algorithms that will swindle us out of our future! You can see them up there at their evil, glowing screens!
     That's when the yoga acrobatics and the hat crocheting are put aside and the street people - their ranks swollen into a horde-like meta-organism - start to express things beyond the right of public assembly. Something unseen goes through them, perhaps like the pheromone that transforms a field full of grasshoppers into a ravening swarm of locusts. Being people, they cannot take wing. But they can press forward and up against things, and they can surely break the glass in those sleek curtain-wall buildings (so much for "transparency") beyond which the bankers sit cringing in their expensive clothing. 
     Surely we are heading toward a moment like that. The bank employees upstairs must be getting a little nervous, anyway, just glancing out the windows at the moiling mob below. This is apart from the tensions internally roiling the banks themselves, not to mention the entire networked system of global banking, with all its fissures and cracks, as the merry-go-round of debt flies apart under the centrifugal force of insolvency. Come to think of it, these events could not have correlated more perfectly. Just as a horrific accident in finance is about to happen, a ready-made revolutionary mob is conveniently parked outside the pilot-houses of the world's great money vessels, so as to receive the crews directly into their open arms after the smash up.
     President Obama could have changed the outcome if he had actually believed in change. He could have told his attorney general to enforce the securities law. He could have replaced the zombies at the SEC and told the new ones to apply all existing regulations. Before last year's election, he could have used his legislative majorities to repeal the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and reinstate the Glass-Steagall act. He could have initiated the process of deconstructing the giant banks back into their separate functions - so that banking once again worked as a utility rather than a launching pad for colossal frauds and swindles. Not only did he fail to do any of these things, he didn't even talk about it, or try.
     Obama has a lot of nerve claiming to support the Occupy Wall Street movement. He should be one of the objects of its ire. I'm not even sure Obama will get to finish out his term of office. 2012 looks like a complete horror show in the making. The way world money matters are lining up this fall, some kind of debacle seems unavoidable, much worse than the 2008 fiasco. The normal political channels are clogged and sclerotic. Our institutions are failing us. The cast of "candidate" characters across the political spectrum convinces nobody that they can manage this republic.
     The weather may determine the mood of the OWS crowd. If they don't go apeshit in the next two weeks, my guess is that the nation will hunker down into a dire, melancholy holiday season followed by a desperate winter leading to a raucous spring of political transformation - not necessarily of the best kind.
     For the moment, we seem to be waiting for the proverbial first broken window
_____________________________

    My books are available at all the usual places.


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455 Comments

Well James - It seems that the crowds are expanding in protest around the US and the world - perhaps giving birth to a new order. But the Empire’s government has invented a fairytale to distract attention from the growing chorus of discontent. Greetings from kulturCritic

http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/iran-to-mexico-to-stop-arabia-in-america/

Bravo!

The Best!

We are holding our breath and waiting for the first shoe to drop in what can only turn out to be some manner of violent confrontation in one of our cities as these thousands of young people become restless and anxious while waiting for something to happen that addresses their anger and just concerns. The problems are now so huge and multifaced that there does not seem to be a solution to calm the savage beast. I sold my precious Rolex this weekend because I was starting to feel like a target just being out in public when a rough looking person would notice it in line at the 7 Eleven. I have a good job and can retire soon but am feeling helpless as far as what any kind of future can be for me and my family in what's to come. Meanwhile the oblivious masses that have not taken to the streets go on doing what they always do until it is half past too late. Everything is just fine, keep watching TV.

Wow - a guy with a Rolex (and calls it "beloved") reads CFN? Will wonders never cease?

Anyway, power never willingly gives in to the demands of the oppressed. Even the Magna Carta, which forced King John to distribute some of his power, was giving it to Feudal Lords, who could muster up some of their violence, not to the peasants living in their thatched-roof, dirt-floored huts.

Goldman is doing god's work. And yes, I very much consider the dismantling of the Amerikkkan fascist/nazi empire and impoverishing its thieving, callous, and willfully blind dealers of poison and death to be god's work. What more can be said. Faster, please!

At any moment the 99% could turn violent but probably won’t. They are showing remarkable restraint and for the most part are keeping things relatively calm and clean. For a truly grass roots organization (no Koch Brothers, no Roger Ailers, no Rupert Murdoch, who incidentally the shareholders are demanding step down), they’ve raised $300,000. Not much in comparison to the deep pockets of the corporate funded Tea Party phonies.

Should Obama the centrist, try to align himself with the 99%? Don’t think he will. He is too busy stomping out flash fires to deal with the upcoming nightmare of 2012. Herman Cain and his 999 seems to be the alternative de jour. The Republicans have done all they can to stop Obama from doing anything. NO on everything except expanding trade agreements with foreign countries and expanding US military occupation. No on jobs bills, no on health care, no on anything that might help the average unemployed and scared to death American. Because the GOP has one goal and one goal only – get Obama out of office even if its sinks the country for generations to come.

What might work would be a Special Counsel set up to investigate the Wall Street. But the GOP would instantly shoot it down. Too expensive! Can’t waste tax money on that! But we can waste money on finding out if Bill Clinton cheated on his wife. That’s really important. So let’s stay focused on the 99%. They’re not whining or complaining. They’re out there, doing something! Maybe it’s a lesson we are should all learn. Stand up for your rights or literally lose them. Because the GOP is very busy redistricting the votes in 38 states. So let the 99% speak. Encourage them, send a donation in, get out there, support the First Amendment and pick up a sign cause Actions Speak Louder Than Words.


"Faster, please!"

Kareful what u wish for..........

I was told by a OWSer that a march on Washington is being planned for April.

Hold on to your hat.

I'm just wondering if we're not going to have a "Kent State moment," when the NYPD White (brown?) Shirts stop merely using pepper spray and nightsticks, and start shooting. We may be just one broken window away from a bloodbath.

Who wants to bet that a lot of Americans wouldn't cheer to see this?

How many of you saw the video of the woman being arrested (by plainclothes police, no less) for closing her bank account? It's 90 seconds into the video:

http://wonkette.com/454855/nypd-arrests-woman-for-closing-her-citibank-account-video

Thumbs up to the protestors. I wish you well. I'm getting to be an old guy now, but I still remember what it was like to be young. You young people are right - my generation failed you spectacularly, and I don't blame you for protesting. You are inheriting a hell of a mess.

And to think that the 1960s "hippie generation" was once so rebellous. Now the radical hippies I went to high school with are either working on Wall Street or anchoring for Fox News. They cheer for war - as long as they don't have to fight it themselves.

America teeters on the brink of collapse. Well, the one ray of hope I have is that when the USA breaks up like the USSR did in 1991, some of the new republics may do well.

The international system of finance came rather close to total functional collapse in late 2008, so an economic catastrophe even a little bit worse than that would be dire news indeed!

In other news, Citigroup just reported a 74% jump in earnings to $3.8 billion.

Something is going to have to give soon...

James has been waiting for the moment when people start going after the people responsible for the financial crash and wondering why they haven't for more than three years. It looks like he's finally getting his wish, although the protesters are remaining a bit too peaceful for his taste. On the other hand, we in the Coffee Party are quite happy that the Occupiers are remaining non-violent. We've been planning an event, the Enough is Enough Rally and Citizens Intervention in Washington DC on October 29th for months now. Looks like we timed it perfectly.

Over on Crazy Eddie's Motie News, I've been blogging about both Occupy Wall Street and Occupy Detroit this past week. Right now, the top entry shows the eerie similarity between protesters burning their draft cards in 1966 and protesters burning their credit cards in 2011. I bet James would be happy to see that.

http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

PRD, Actually, he called it "precious" as in Golem and the ring from "Lord of the Rings". They say don't love anything that can't love you back. But then again what do "they" know?

Jim's thinly disguised and frequent gleeful anticipation of social violence may satisfy testosterone needs or feelings of vengeance but such violence is not likely to lead to the needed change.And such violence is what the state is best suited to deal with. I think we may be seeing a qualitatively different mass movement that is not interested in violence as the basis for social change. It would be far more effective if this movement spreads into the general population as a word wide refusal to pay taxes or a world wide general strike with clear demands that would begin to address inequities, the end of oil, and the environmental devastation we are all facing. What happens when along with wall street, we turn on the Main Stream Corporate Media with the idea of seizing, owning and occupying the information media. The corporate funded duoploly is the biggest political scam in history and people are catching on.

In 1983, when I graduated from college, we were in a recession as bad as today's disaster. Reagan was beginning his onslaught on the New Deal, cutting many programs, including the Pell Grants that had made it possible for me to even go to school. I remember looking to become a part protests, finding none, and having no luck getting people riled up. Most of the members of my rather dumb, vapid generation were pursuing careers in law, finance or "business" and then got married to ostentatious consumption and "I'm OK, You're OK" wanking. I'm so glad to see that the current generation is standing up to our bully boy establishments and refusing to back down.

ccm989, I'll bet if we traced your web address it would lead back to Democratic Party HQ. Poor Obama can't do anything good because the evil Republicans have tied him up and thrown him in the woodshed. What a load of partisan crap. Even Kunstler isn't buying that anymore, reread the end of today's message. There's plenty Obama could have done to the criminals on Wall Street. Oh wait, that's right, they financed him. Well, I guess they get a free pass.

Like locusts, yes. Demonized grasshoppers.

The clerks look down on them from the
other side, and meanwhile, the terminals
tell their story. Who is right, which is
real?

JHK, this is the best of the year. Harpers
or Atlantic should reprint this. I suppose
you wouldn't allow that.

Down here in Key West we had 75 people show up for a protest and the weather was shitty. Not a bad turnout for a place that is about as far removed from WS as one can get.

This seems to have become a site for the blood-lusters. You all should get together with your torches and pitchforks, go out and do your own bloodletting. The warmongers, putting the young on battlefields, have nothing on you guys.

"Herman Cain and his 999 seems to be the alternative de jour."

The woman at the Hysterical Raisins blog has been calling that "Plan 999 from Outer Space" for a couple of weeks now. That meme is finally getting traction, as Krugman posted the trailer to "Plan 9 from Outer Space" on his blog the other day. To make things even more ridiculous, Cain's 999 plan looks very much like the default tax rates in Sim City 4. Cain says it's just a coincidence and denies that his economic advisor cribbed it from a video game. Too bad. It would probably be the most intelligent influence on his campaign.

I am afraid that as the Greek protesters lost to the Athens heat during the summer the OWS will lose to the New York winter.

This JHK post is hilarious. Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

"Just as a horrific accident in finance is about to happen,.."

I could quibble about "horrific"; let's get it over with, today.

Interesting. I have stopped wearing any jewelry while out and about in Chicago, as people have been getting assaulted for jewelry and phones. Don't have an iphone and wouldn't use it in public if I did. It does feel like a new era--I don't remember this, even in the 80s and 90s, except for the whole gold chain snatching thing.
To make matters worse, it has been a slow year for the garden, with masses of green tomatoes and a possible frost coming this week, sickly egg plants, bugs and squirrels eating things that they never touched before, stunted cabbges. Healthy chard and jalapenos, though.

KC, I read your blog and I think you let Obama off too easily. You paint him as some gullible toddler who believes the stranger with the sweet candy is really his friend. When I first heard about this I knew it was bullshit and I don't possess the intellectual heft of the President.

Where I live, Boulder County, Colorado, it is mainly the Seniors who have taken to the streets. The young apparently still have their noses buried in the their Smart Phones. Best sign so far: "Don't Fuck With Seniors". I am 64, and along with some of the other seniors, it appears we still have a bit of testosterone left. Don't think I will be destroying anything, however. Been there, done that but will continue to rally, protest, and raise hell.

Americans are wimps...too scared to die for anything they believe in anymore, even though Americans own the most guns in the world, at 88.8 per 100!! according to Wikipedia. Much easier to send out a drone to kill brown people we don't like. Americans boohooed about the 3,500 that died on 9/11 but seem quite comfortable at the hundreds of thousands of civilians that have died in the Middle East as a result of American foreign policy.

Bankers and corporations (yes, they're people!) need to be reminded of their mortality, and what physical pain is all about. Sadly, all that anti-terrorism infrastructure can and will be used against Americans. Private security is big business, and a growth business.

I agree that the sooner things collapse, the better...

Hi Jim and all the gang,

Yes , I agree, we appear to be in the breathless, terror filled waiting time for the storm to break. Violence is baked into the cake, no matter how peaceful these people are now. How can it be otherwise? Power will not concede power, no matter how nicely they are asked. No I'm afraid what we saw in Rome over the past few days is only a preview. Meanwhile Obama and company spin fairytales about the evil Iran using an incompetent used car salesman as the villain in the little B grade piece( this is taking austerity a little too far- using cut rate writers for the script- really how gauche ) . A classic diversionary play that doesn't seem to be taking too well with the masses. Too many people asking uncomfortable questions.

Fast and Furious is desparately being snowed under with Iran hysteria and the establishment clucking over the OWS folks. How convenient. The tension is building in the system, I look for a serious blow out pretty soon. But not with any glee as some here are accusing Jim of ( wrongly I think) but with the horrified fascination of seeing a car wreck, ya don't want to look, but ya just have to.

The inability of the Repugs to put up a candidate to truly challenge Ron Paul is starting to put a lot of pressure on the system too. He has consistently polled well and is picking up steam. People seem to like his ideas. The MSM is running out of ways to hide his candidacy and it is starting to show. Recently it was admitted on the Judge Napolitano show that he could get the GOP nomination. VERY interesting. His proposed budget has been made public and is pretty specific, with the main thing stated being he would take around 39,000 dollars a year for his salary. That should send all the pols over the edge. Imagine Nancy Pelosi getting by on 30,000 a year, she might not look quite so surprised anymore( no cash for plastic surgery don't ya know).

Take care clusterfuckers, and keep the pepper spray out of your eyes.
loveday

HMuller -- nope, sorry to disappoint you. I do not work for the Democratic Party or any other political group. I state only my own opinion. And if I don't agree with you or JHK, too bad. But I do thank Mr. Kunstler for putting me in touch with such a wonderful group of people who are thought provoking and write well.

Today’s young bloods may not give in to their testosterone quite as readily as their baby-boomer counterparts once did. Why? Because, despite appearances, there’s quite a bit more coherence these days; and this coherence’s subtle influence may well work to speed up this revolution. The coherent amongst us are working to ensure that 2012 isn’t going to be a horror show JHK has here predicted but rather the year of monumental change for the better!

http://www.Thesisa.org/

Obama and friends seek to make OWS to the Democrats what the Tea Party is to the Republicans, but I doubt it will work... I see the protests in Rome have turned violent, causing over $1 million in damage. It could certainly happen in New York too, but I hope not. Look how much violence and how many thousands of deaths have occurred in the Middle East and North Africa recently, yet the people have lost a lot more than they have gained. Hopefully the protests will continue to grow and remain peaceful - this country should be raising taxes on the rich and cutting spending on corrupt corporate contracts before it subjects the poor to this: http://aeinetwork.com/news408.html

I still have hope in our country.

I visited DC for the first time for the Solar Decathlon and saw hundreds of students promoting beautiful sustainable housing. I toured our nations Capitol building, saw where all of our countries great leaders had convened for over a century, and once again BELIEVE in our system working for the good of the people.

And now off to Dallas for SOLAR POWER INTERNATIONAL. The WORLD gathering for those who understand it's time for the Next Energy Level.

CHANGE THE WORLD

[TUNE: "Internationale",
as at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z3fUa9KAEk
or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tDNefrtJrg .
My intention is to set new words
to this fine marxist-leninist tune,
thereby enlisting the stirring music
without endorsing sterile marxist-leninist politics.
Corporate capitalism and marxism-leninism are now both defunct, and we need to find a new way forward. (I'd propose the ideas of Belloc
and Chesterton, as "distributivists", and
I would urge close study also of Catherine Doherty and Dorothy Day: cf my mission statement in "Business" section of www.metascientia.com.)
Do sing my words, anyone, if you think
such singing might be helpful!]

Fear not, a greener dawn is breaking,
Fear not, the trees shall grow again;
Hard-pressed communities now waking
Speak in words now clear and plain:
Away with greedy corporations,
Away with spin, with slant, with lies,
Restore God's justice to our nations,
O workers of the Earth, arise!

So comrades, come rally,
And our green tasks let us face:
This Internationale
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And our green tasks let us face:
This Internationale
Unites the human race.

[Written by Toomas Karmo
as 20111015T022500Z/version 1.1.0,
and handed out in 80 or 90 copies
in the big crowd at 2011-10-15 "Occupy Toronto".
Author herewith invokes
GNU Free Documentation license,
allowing all people
to use this version without royalties,
and to make their own revised versions
if they append revision history and their own authorname.]

Close but no cigar Jim, the White Pussy Army in NYC is an emasculated herd of wimps compared to the crowds of 1968. The Left demands the complete emasculation of any white male and lo and behold it became reality.

Of course then the left turned to the virile dark man as its change arbiter of violence. But even the non-stop campaign of race hate put out by the Left shall come to naught.

So if the Left follows its inclanations to use its colored auxilaries they will lose 90% of the country overnight.

Anyway Wall St. sucks, but we on the Right cannot protest it because as soon as we do the JHKs of the world will suddenly inform the world of the latest, newest Nazi plot to subjugate the oppressed.

Status Quo holds for now.

Yepper,
It's the tension-and-release meme that makes for a fine horror movie.
Halloween couldn't be creeping up on us at a more appropriate time!

Will our "black swan" be a simple flash of awareness by the general populace? (Now, that WOULD be unexpected.)

"he could have used his legislative majorities to repeal the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and reinstate the Glass-Steagall act."

I met Tom Bliley back when he was in Congress. "Heckuvaniceguy," as folks around here say in one breath. His family--morticians--buried lots of folks I know. One of my buddies even dated his daughter. I'm sure I pulled a lever for him once.

But Congressman Bliley was owned, body and soul, by Philip Morris.

What sort of legislation could you have expected from a kept Congressman?

Hell yeah, bring back Glass-Steagall. John McCain supported that...one of his few sane actions in recent years.

But Obama has found his fighting spirit far too late. He should have called for it in a 100 Days agenda, the sort that more experienced politico would have trotted out given Obama's then-mandate by the voters.

Now it is far too late.

When Greece gives up the Euro, those bankers had better barricade the stairwells and shut down the elevators. The shock-wave will reach all the way here....and it will be worse that the Lehman collapse.

I don't think you liberal nutcase get it. WE ARE BROKE AS A COUNTRY, no more money to waste. The day of social engineering are going to be gone. OWS and other like causes are whinning, don't cut my program, but those other are wrong so cut theirs. When, as a country, we get the situation, then there will be a fix. We are to ingrained in the give me mine first mentality. We need more WE and less ME and yes the OWS is about the me generation.

Alas... I remember the games of 1968 well. Too bad they didn't give us the change we really wanted, but instead Dick Nixon. :-(

I only hope things are very, very different this time. In a good way for The People.

Jim, you may be right. The whole train of events may go off the rails and down the weedy embankment of lost mob innocence, its smoking and leaking wagons tossed in a tangle of forgotten optimism...

However, for now, there is hope, so consider THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S NEW ECONOMIC CHARTER, incorporating and building on the 9/29 OWS Declaration: http://bit.ly/pg5PN7 - Join the Charter Collaborative. Edit the 99%'s Economic Roadmap. Crowdsourcing Change!

Ralph

The power of the 98% is in our pockets. A few decades ago, we decided American cars sucked, so we started buying foreign and brought the US car industry to its knees. Women stopped buying beef and incidentally brought unpleasant consequences for Oprah from the industry.

Part of Jim's rant is to buy local. Well. Buy local. Want to see the big banks take notice? Move our money to local independent banks and credit unions. They're the ones who know what we need in our communities. The big ones used to be a lot of little banks, but they kept merging until they became too big to fail and they could gamble with our money on a global level.

Our ultimate economic salvation lies within our communities and neighborhoods. Let's invest in our friends and neighbors.

Loveday,

After reading your assertions about a surging Ron Paul, I went over to Real Clear Politics to see what the numbers stated. In Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, Paul is trailing the poll leader by 16,28,and 25 pts.That's not a surge; that's a trickle. In South Carolina, for example, Paul garners 7% of the vote. Seven percent in South Carolina? If Paul can't gain traction in a state like South Carolina he is done.

To further elaborate of the politics of fantasy running rampant here on CFN, JHK speculates that " I'm not even sure Obama will get to finish out his term of office. 2012 looks like a complete horror show in the making ". Meanwhile, President Obama is annihilating his GOP opposition in the latest polls:

Obama 50, Romney 39
Obama 50, Cain 32
Obama 53,Perry 32

Is Dan Quayle still available?

A bit off topic, but it does mesh in with the subject of venal politicians (and those who prop them up for perusal by "Duh People")...

I think it was either X or Ix who inverted the 999 plan to the obvious 666 plan, which fits in with our demonizing theme as well.

Here's my findings as of the last post on JHK's missive of last Monday:

*******************
From the archives of "You Can't Make This Shit Up" comes a real shocker... Herman Cain did a lot of fiery preacher work for Americans For Prosperity and his campaign team is infested with AFP operatives and former operatives.

Oopsie, not so outsider/independent after all.
Guess who might be the main sponsors and organizers of AFP? Why, it's the squeaky-clean Koch Bros. Inc. I'm SHOCKED, I tell you, SHOCKED!

...And why [in the name of all that's unholy] would you vote for a person of the name "Cain"? (Oh, sorry, that's name-ist discrimination; and we all know how the Koch Bros. and their supporters care about "the People's" rights.) Should we perhaps find somebody named Abel to vote for instead? Mmmm, mebbe not; I see assassination in his future.
****************

Well, that's about how much we can trust the corporate/police state to come up with politicians with the actual Commonweal as first priority. Obama has made a fine example of wishful thinking and dirty deeds in service of the plutocrats.

Realistically, if the OWS protests do take a violent turn, how long will it be before things degenerate into a free for all of mindless vandalism and looting. Watch how quickly it will go from waving signs of "End Corporate Greed" to running out of a flaming Apple store with an armload of looted I-Pods.

"Anyway Wall St. sucks, but we on the Right cannot protest it because as soon as we do the JHKs of the world will suddenly inform the world of the latest, newest Nazi plot to subjugate the oppressed."

It was an inside job.......the Big Obama government did this.......not the irresponsible banks.....Now banks are again being punitively regulated under the Volcker Rule to cover up the government's incompetence........ hahahahahaha do they ever learn?

In 2005, when The Long Emergency was published, Jim predicted that the coming disruptions might be beyond our political system for solutions. Well here we are: gridlock,Citizens United,corporate personhood,corrupt political system,banksters,no change to believe in. What therefore is the alternative? Take it to the streets, start organizing for a general strike, stick a spanner in the works, boycott corporate money vacuuming operations(chain stores, wall street banking concerns, credit cards, etc....don't buy shit). When the deck is stacked against you, get a new deck.

Why is that that while watching all the "Night of the Living Dead" reruns and updates this week I am reminded of what is happening to the country? Better start nailing those boards over the front door!

"....broken window..."? I'm waiting for the first fatality. Protester or Law Enforcement. That's when things get interesting.

FIRST!!!
...no but seriously, great post JHK!
The core OWS will remain peaceful, but with the impending mathematical certainty of a bigger collapse than in 2008, I'm concerned some wing-nut politician(s) will emerge and attempt to mobilize the Zombie CPN's to blame, and then turn on the protesters, dropping whatever cheap chinese product they may be holding, while lining up at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or Domino's.
Once that happens, expect the situation devolve quickly.
Look no further than Egypt, which is currently experiencing a horrific blowback from this type of power vacuum.

winter is coming...

The OWS folk had better get reacquainted with history. Remember what hapened when the rulers got tired of the street antics at the '68 Chicago Dem Convention? We have descendants of the swine-in-charge in '68 on the Executive Branch payroll even today.. . They are like a Frankenstein monster that will need a carbon-fiber stake through the heart to be rid of them forever.

How about that incident at Kent State?

These demonstrators would do well to stay alert and focused at the task at hand and stay away from confronting the Hitler/Bloomberg Youth Brownshirt brigades head on, especially if you're a 100 lb female going up against a trained thug in uniform with enough battle gear to defend Berlin/Upper East Side unscathed. Mace/tear gas/ pepper spray is merciful compared to the physical damage these pigs could meter out on the innocent.

Every Dog has its' Day.

Any Grassy Knolls in New York ?

If people really were so pers....what, oh shit, I gotta go help my co-worker decide on which costume her dog is going to wear for Halloween. Never mind. Americans, such as the one across the hall here at work, are so pathetic. As she said last week about the occupiers: "oh, you mean they are camping out there? I thought they drove back and forth." We have no shot. God bless Bank of America.

What happened to Fall? Going from 85 to 35 in a hurry again this year. Might be a good time to start building that arc for next summer.


ccm989
you really believe this is a "grass roots" movement???? How naive can you be. This has George Soros' dollar signs all over it.

How uncomfortably inconvenient major signs of failure show up when a half-black half-socialist 100% campaigning politician is shown as being only a half-President.

There will be many who will unconsciously find fault with the man, but really, he is only a product of his biggest campaign contributors.

Fooled again..., dammit.

Things are really breaking down this week. I was driving last night through redneck towns on my way back from the Sierras when I noticed a giant flag at half mast over a Chevron station. I thought, "who could that be for? Steve Jobs?" I got home on the net to find out it was some duchbag nascar driver.

Burn it down.

In response to someone above who said that the US is well equipped to deal with violent protest. I disagree. Something happens in people when they see ordinary people getting mistreated. It makes them show up.

My own experience with this is when Willy Brown aka 'Da Mayor' put an end to Critical Mass in SF. 5000 people showed up and took the streets...things turned a little violent and then 8000 people showed up. He did the right thing... the only thing he could have done which was to capitulate.

I watched that video of that lady getting stuffed into a hole for closing her account or at least not doing anything outside her rights and my wife and I decided to remove our savings from Bof A and US bank. Its only $60k (which I feel lucky to have) but It will send a message.

Burn this monster down already so we can start rebuilding. That is the way I feel and I am no anarchist. That is the way many if not all of my friends and family feel.

A brilliant piece of writing, Jim. But I question your judgement on one thing -- Didn't you vote for Obama? If you couldn't see through his airy promises of "Hope" and "Change", then how can we trust your assessment that "The cast of "candidate" characters across the political spectrum convinces nobody that they can manage this republic."?

Perhaps you don't see anyone, but a lot of Americans are coming to see there is one candidate who has the right principles to run this country the way we have always believed it should be run: "of the people, by the people, and for the people."

Of course, I am referring to Congressman Ron Paul, who has been treated as "The Invisible Candidate" by the media. The best evidence that he has the right answers is the fact that the changes his Constitutional approach would bring are anathema to our current oligarchy, both Democrats and Republicans.

They'd rather pretend Ron Paul doesn't exist, rather than answer him point-for-point.

Check him out, but don't tell us that there is no viable alternative candidate who can do the job.

Buck

Well, not to put too fine a point on it but, pay attention, the MSM has consistently cooked the poll results. I mean Gingrich seriously ? That old, lecherous, zombie is still included in the polling? Really? Romney, of the Massachusetts health care plan that served as the blue print for disastrous Obama care- really? Perry, govenor good hair himself, that pushed for HPV vaccines when he knew nothing about those vaccines-really? Oh well think what you want. Paul most probably won't get the nomination, but what he represents is the emergence of a more reality based line of thought. Ending endless war- check, ending endless debt to the FED- check, ending endless police state encroachments on constitutional rights- check, point is he has some things to say that are definitely not Mainstream and people like that. And yes I do think he is picking up steam.
Obama is running scared- the Fast and Furious farce has been blown wide open, the worsening economic situation is accelerating like a bullet train, he has been unable or unwilling to accomplish any of his proposals( think closing Guantanamo, pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan, economic recovery, etc... etc...) and Michelle's expensive vacations have proven to be quite an embarassment in this age of austerity. So I find it simply not credible that he is polling in the 50 percent range, sounds like a faker fairytale that the recent Iran nonsense.

I don't think politics as usual will hold any real solutions. The left/right model has been stubbornly purposely deaf to the wishes of the population( the 99 percent). Therefore we are seeing small glimpses of a new emerging political reality, that will be more responsive to the people. Paul is one of those glimpses, please note he is a Repub in name only, most of the Repub political machine won't touch him with gloves on.

have a great day
loveday

That missing period at the end of the last paragraph seems ominous somehow.

Well I had a rewarding day on the protest line in my smaller NW city this weekend. A nice diversity of people, interesting conversations, a support level of at least 75% of the cars passing by. Overall feeling of solidarity and determination.

As for violence it may be inevitable but I think it will be instigated/provoked by the State that represents and is commanded by the 1%. Before it comes to that we would be wise to take violent financial action. The big banks are going to FAIL, so MOVE YOUR MONEY now to a smaller, local, more stable community bank or credit union. They offer all the services of the big banks, direct deposit (if you are so lucky), etc. Don't worry about ATMs, remember you can get cashback at the store.

Doing business with a megabank is a bad habit but one that is easy (and pleasant) to change. These bankers may be a little nervous watching the OWSers but they really don't care about people with signs. The only language they speak is money and masses of closed accounts will actually get their attention.

So tell your friends and small business owners: Open an alternative account first, then MOVE YOUR MONEY. NOVEMBER 5TH IS BANK TRANSFER DAY!

Thanks Mr Kunstler, I often feel as in you and I are are on some sort of similar cosmic wavelength.

American's have had some enormous clouds of methane gas blown up their collective asses for over thirty years. And now, at least since 2000, we've had nothing but one humongous shit-sandwich shoved down our throats - one after the other.

What's changed? Well for one thing, there has been an exponential growth in hubris and greed among "america's finest" - until we have reached the point of selective enforcement and rigging of systems touching all walks of life.

Stating that we need reform is like stating the Titanic could use some de-icer for for the windows on the bridge.

Everything, the world markets, the stock exchanges, our government(s) are so fucking corrupted that its hard to tell if any honest commerce exists to preserve.

This is why it so important to understand and emphasize that our starting points need only be to exercise honest enforcement of what little control of these criminal enterprises is left us.

All of us should make it point to remind each other as well as what other brainless asses we encounter that there have been crime committed. And that in spite of what anyone wants to say, OWser's are really the only people who are standing up for truth, justice and the American way.

I have nothing against rich people getting rich - unless the only reason they are rich is by cheating the system or bribing governments.

Don't let the fucking "political right" steal the message. This movement is about stopping crimes, and restoring markets that are to be governed by the peoples' choices, not political corruption.

But, I digress, carry on.


Violence? You wish! Many CFN readers can't wait for the long-promised Hell to break loose, but that flies in the face of reality. Here in the US, we are far too comfortable, and have far too many distractions keeping our tushes on the couch, watching TV and surfing the net at the same time. I am surprised to see people in the streets at all! OWS is actually a VERY tepid response, but it's better than nothing...

I personally went down to Zuccotti Park a couple weeks ago, and hung out for bit. It was cool to be part of it for a short while. But like most people, I have a day-job that I need to take care of my family, pay my mortgage.... it's quite a commitment (really, it's quite an abandonment of my other daily commitments) to protest in the street.

Reality check: Unless the system totally collapses into mass starvation and homelessness, detention of innocent civilians, institution of the draft (or some other existential threat), OWS will probably remain a nice, polite movement with - at most - some minor skirmishes with cops. This ain't Egypt. This isn't even the 1960's! Anyone who is hoping (secretly or openly) for significant riots and violence will probably be disappointed.

I'd say all bets are off at this point. Here in Canada there were occupations in about 21 cities on the weekend and the one in Toronto is continuing as the work week begins. I see that cops in Chicago and Boston are starting to wield their various big sticks, while in Rome the crowd has turned to destruction.

While each occupation site will write its own story, one truth is evident. The authorities will only stand by and watch for so long before deciding play time is over. Then they will move in, and that's when the violence will start.

Remember Jim Morrison's line in that old song? "They've got the guns but we've got the numbers. Gonna win, we're taking over".

If only that had been true! Sadly, it won't be true this time either, unless the silent masses rise up to add their own commitment, and stand with the Occupiers. That might happen eventually, but in the meantime many good and faithful people will be beat senseless and go home with tails between their legs, defeated.

It's just not going to be one Big, Decisive Moment when everything changes. It's going to take years of strife and heartache. Like JHK says, a Long Emergency.

Still, this old girl is very glad it has at least started. About time.

"Tin soldiers and Nixon coming, We're finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming. Four dead in Ohio." - Neil Young

Gardening this year has apparently been a serious challenge for almost everyone, everywhere. Ohio is extraordinarily blessed with good ground (except for the terminal morain on which we live), ample rainfall and moderate temps, so most people just plant their gardens, sit back and let Mother Nature do her thing. This year, we had a severe drought and high temps. Mother Nature just took the year off, sat back and flipped everyone off. Fortunately, we're from Oklahoma (although I am sure nothing grew there in this year from Hell), and learned how to garden in unfavorable weather. I canned 137 quarts of green beans, 117 quarts of tomatoes and 17 quarts of hot spaghetti sauce, also around 50 mylar bags of dehydrated apples. Corn was a disappointment and peppers didn't do well. No eggplant at all, nor squash. What area of the country are you in? Not wanting an address, just a vague idea. No one seems to have had a good year.

"I am afraid that as the Greek Protesters lost to the Athens Heat during the summer the OWS will lose to the New York Winter."

Question 1) Does the Athens win mean there will be a game 7? And, why would the outcome of the Greek/Athens Heat game have any bearing on the OWS/NY Winter match up?

Question 2) If the OWS Cavaliers lose to the New York Winter, they maintain their playoff spot, correct? Or, am I just being overly optimistic.

Question 3) Will LSU maintain their unbeaten record after meeting Alabama?

Southern Leaguer.

Oh Good Night Irene!!! Closed Minded much? I wish the Chief Horndog were still with us as he did a much better job. Poor Obammy had a huge majority when he began and still got nothing done (Thank God), so to blame the Republicans is farcical and naive, at best. Deluded and brainwashed at worst. We voted for Hillary, with reservations, but she, guided by Bill, would have averted some of the mess, I think. You also failed to mention that B.O. received billions from Wall Street, more than any candidate, so he is hardly spotless in this morality contest.

B.O.gave me a tingling sensation when I first saw him speak, but it was cold chills. Those dead, snake-like eyes and his constant "Loot at me! Look at me! Look at me!" were scary. There's something wrong with this man and he still has enough followers to really hurt us.

Hoo boy! Let's see how long it takes before this "moiling mob" splinters into contending factions for dominance within itself. Personally, I fear most the La-La faction contending a quick-fix-patch-kit of no borders, no sovereign separations, no jurisdictional rule of law by which a citizenry can direct its own discreet destiny. Ah yes, if we all just join hands around the globe suddenly there'll be food, water and land for everyone, all living in harmonious tranquility -- and, of course, having as many children as directed by which every Bronze Age beliefs they subscribed to. As of the moment, this faction has already implanted itself into the OWSer’s DNA, demanding at once that the US forfeit its slimming chance of survival by welcoming in no limit of distressed population from all the already hopelessly overpopulated regions of the globe. And, of course, we’ll welcome too (and celebrate to boot) their diversity of beliefs that prevents them from apprehending the 21st Century reality. But, I forget,…..we American’s are too Caucasian and too European of culture to deserve entitlement to save ourselves.

Dear Paraquat,

What kind of delusion are you living under? First of all the woman in that video was a definite plant for the Wall Street Protestors. (Please who are you kidding). Second, Kent State Moment? You sound as if you are wishing people get killed. Third, Old guy, that remembers what it is like to be young and protest your little heart out? Those days were not fun. Those protests did nothing but give you hippies, a chance to feel important as you smoked weed and look like heros so you can get some more free sex.
So don't reminence so much. Sounds like most of your memories are behind a smoke haze of delusion.
Why don't you join your fellow "patiots" and get arrested so you can tell the "fake press" how hard it is to live in America.(Like they care,they are part of the problem) I am sure the rest of the "old hippies" are right there with you, at least until the drugs run out. When and if you ever come out of your delusional rememberance you will see a country that is on the brink of disaster. The Obama-nation of people who voted for this freak are now out there protesting against him. He was always been a freak, (as was Bush, Clinton and Bush 1). Maybe if the baby boomers weren't so hung up on their partying, they would have been sober enough to stop the banks and wall street BEFORE this mess happened. ITS WAY, WAY PAST THE WALL STREET MOVEMENT NOW. The run away train is going to hit the wall, and this country is going down. The first to go will be the wall street protestors, followed by the bankers and eventually the so called "rich". what ever that means. (I have a suspicion it means: ANYONE WITH A JOB.)

Great posting, Jim! One of the all time best.

Might it be that the OWSers are America's last hope?

Has regime change come to the America?

I am totally on the rebels' side.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson

I would never advise anyone to put their life or limb at stake for a mere symbolic protest. but this is more than that, our very future is at stake. This movement is overdue, long past Jefferson's twenty-year time scale, and if bloodshed is on the menu, one can only hope the people shedding their blood will have made their choices with informed minds and no illusions.

I certainly hope not. Thanks to your comment, I now have the "Ohio" song rattling around in my head and will have it all day long.

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio."
("Ohio" lyrics by Neil Young)

"Tin Soldiers" represent the Ohio National Guard, another group of scared kids, and Nixon because everyone blamed him for the war, for those of you too young to have been there. I didn't do war protesting, coming from a family of veterans, but I was active in the Civil Rights movement. If Obammy is the result, I'm now really sorry.

Mr. Kunstler, you did an amazing job this week.

An addendum on the Jefferson quote: This time it's not the people in rebellion who need to be "set right as to facts", it's the powers-that-be who need reminding as to the consequences of serving themselves too greedily and too long at the expense of the common weal. There is still room for hope that this can be accomplished before too many mothers' daughters and sons are buried.

Hi Ptolemy - just wondered if you thought of donating the proceeds of the sale of your Rolex to a group that is feeding the hungry or sheltering the homeless.

I don't think James is advocating violence, he's just saying it might eventually be inevitable if people get all fired up and nothing changes.

We're seriously considering changing our party affiliation this year, which is serious for us. Think we'll vote for Herman Cain, although I have deep reservations about the "999" plan. First, because it's never good to open another revenue stream to the Feds, and second, because I think it will turn out to be much more than 9% when/if it's implemented. The formula just doesn't assure that it won't have the dreaded "unintended consequences", finally bankrupting us all. Both "The Economic Collapse" and Charles Hugh Smith's "Of Two Minds" have a very detailed analysis of the plan, and it's not good.

Now, why is Obammy so sacred to the Left, but Cain is a target? He hasn't hidden any of his past and he's the real deal, plus has experience in turning a bad situation around. Experience in business is a good thing. No experience and not having a clue is not a good thing.

Could it be that Cain had the unmitigated gall to say farewell to the Democrats? The Left definitely considers all blacks to be their property, and any Kulak who dares to wander off the Democrat plantation must be stopped before the exodus spreads???? Be honest, if you can.

Loveday,

The biggest problem facing Paul is a lack big donors. I watched the last debate and Paul was basically ignored. Confirming the intentional travesty was the amount of air play that Hunstmen received. I'm like, who... Hunstmen? - who cares, give me some Ron Paul, at least for the sake of entertainment. Consequently, every time Paul gets a chance to speak it comes off as possibly his last breath. And what refrain is uttered from the desperate lips of a pariah ignored other than... "FEDERAL RESERVE". This dynamic, and Paul's predictable, harried response just sort of reinforces the notion that Paul is an obsessive conspiracy type, and, as a result, easily dismissed and overlooked by Joe and Jane Everyday.

If Ron Paul want's to be taken seriously he needs to get serious about marketing himself and his ideas, because as it stands now, the MSM is playing him like a wind-up talking doll.

I wish the OWSers well. But I would remind them that their adversaries see/saw no problem in killing tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis and an untold number of Afghanis simplyu because they had the misfortune of being born where they were. So, if the OWSers think for once that their enemy won't release the dogs of war on them, they should think again. The Wall Streeters are venal, callous and heartless. For certain. So we should expect them to make increasingly viscious attacks on the OWSers as their rice bowls are threatened. The problem is the OWSers can't be sure they are really making an effect until the Wall Streeters really get nasty. This scene does not have a good ending, but is probabaly unavoidable.

Don't put yourself down. If you're a self-supporting, non-whiny adult, you're way ahead of Obama.

driguano -- http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/16/national/main20121154.shtml -- CBS/New York. George Soros funds Moveon.org. If he were funding the OWS, they'd have a LOT MORE than a scant $300,000.

Sorry tomkarmo, I couldn't sing the part about "God's justice", it would stick in my throat. The only justice we are going to have is that which we create for ourselves. Of the people, by the people, for the people. No "God" involved.

Just to add to my previous comment - here are the actual words to the second verse of the Internationale (translated from the French):
There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caesar, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves
Decree the common salvation
So that the thief expires,
So that the spirit be pulled from its prison,
Let us fan the forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|

I think OWS will gradually develop a list of concrete actions and demands. Starting with MOVE YOUR MONEY, (stop feeding the machine) and progressing to campaign funding reform, reinstating financial regulation, partial cancelling of student debt, a tax on oil companies to fund replacement energy sources, real action on climate change, a major pullback in our overseas military bases, etc.

If the system refuses to change it will then be plain for all to see. That's when you should listen for the sound of breaking glass.

The powerful are just waiting for the violence to begin so they can use what they have been practicing all over the world. The world of drones. Robots flying robots. It is 1984 now. Be prepared and good luck. Check this out: http://www.alternet.org/story/152756/america%E2%80%99s_secret_empire_of_drone_bases%3A_its_full_extent_revealed_for_the_first_time

Wow - "we on the Right" sure have some bizarre ideas!

PRD - King John was an embarrassment as a despot, a complete loser.


Jim Kunstler said:

Of course, demonization proceeds from the failure of this president and his appointed agents in authority to subject those who work on Wall Street to the laws that mere mortals are supposed to follow in money matters.
********************************************************************

Yes ... it really is THAT simple. I would add that when
President Obama tried to chide people from criticizing
Wall Street workers, he insults our intelligence. I think
normal people know that secretaries, low-level brokers,
and the janitor at Goldman Sachs have nothing to do
with the fundamental problems that have been created.

Normal people, and the OWS movement, know that it's
a few oligarchs that are creating the problem, not rank
and file workers.

E.

Actually, Woodfarm, it's the people you call "Liberal nutcases" who are the ones who have been saying for 30 years that growth can't continue, and who are the ones currently saying that the days of growth are over. Read Richard Heinberg's The End of Growth - I'm sure he's one of the people you would classify as a "Liberal nutcase" but he's been writing books about the end of growth for a good 10 years now.


I also agree with JHK that 2012 is shaping up as a horror
year and it is NOT anything to do with Mayan calendars.
The Economic Cycle Research Institute's very, very accurate
indicators usually manifest in the real economy three months
into the future (they are leading, not lagging indicators).

And a recession at this juncture, from an already low base
of economic activity, is going to feel like a Great Depression.
I mean, when the participation of people in the labor force
is at alltime lows, capacity utilization is in the low/mid 60s,
and wages are going down, any movement downward from
those conditions IS a depression.

E.

Thank you Clipscripter. One of the most intelligent comments on here today. We are the change, we are the changers.

metuselah
nice idea that Goldman is doing god's work's in bringing down the empire.

A cop in Missouri used the same conceit - that he was doing god's work - when he pulled me over for a drug inspection. Thought I might be ferrying marijuana into Kansas. An illegal search seems to be ok if you are doing god's work, so I guess CDO's are ok too.

Banks are being "punitively regulated"?? Give me a break. "Punily regulated" is more like it. Or "almost not regulated any more than they were".

Al Klein
your point is understood - that demonstrations are tolerated until they become effective.

We hated godless communism. Should we love godless capitalism?

Please, folks, do a little more research into Ron Paul before you start wanting him to be President. AlterNet has a number of good articles about his real beliefs. Start with the one entitled "5 Reasons Progressives Should Treat Ron Paul with Extreme Caution -- 'Cuddly' Libertarian Has Some Very Dark Politics" - unless you are anti-gay, anti-black, anti-equality, anti-education, anti-woman, and anti-senior citizen. If you are, then I guess he's the candidate for you.

Hi Juletta - here on Vancouver Island we were blessed with a great summer. Just enough rain, just enough sun. Things got off to a bit of a slow start but the harvest came through perfectly. No frost until 2 days ago.

you really are insufferable.

insufferable - you say "First of all the woman in that video was a definite plant"
I hope you pay attention over the next few days to see how that plays out. You may be facing some cognitive dissonance.

Newworld, you embarrass the right, I hope.

"Check him out, but don't tell us that there is no viable alternative candidate who can do the job."

Mr. Kemp, the problem is, they hate the Constitution worse than the republicans.

I think its just to early to call the effects of the OWSer movement. Just a decade earlier, the WTO protests in Seattle, the Republican convention in NYC, Miami, and others are the real preludes. If you want to compare and contrast movements, those are the analogues.

One of the reason 'breaking glass' hasn't happened is because the idealism is still alive, to the greater degree. That and the fact that most of the time, police action incites the turn to more violent forms of protest. The cops are hanging back, to some degree, I think, because this amounts to a protest of the sitting (democratic) president, which Cops, being the (professional) defenders of the status quo (conservatism) largely approve, and the mainstream left (democrats) have yet to repudiate their 2008 votes and psychological investments.

See Chris Hedges's article "A Movement Too Big to Fail" at commondreams.org.

Jim,

Who would you like to see become president? I'm not excited about anyone. This presidency proves that the ability to wheel and deal with congress is an essential leadership trait we need. Heck, Obama can't even schedule a nationally televised speech without getting crap from the republicans.

I seriously doubt a Pizza CEO has enough political ability to deal with congress. We need someone with a proven record of wheeling and dealing. One politician I respect is California Governor Jerry Brown--but he doesn't have the national experience.

I will be forever ticked off that we sent military aid to Libya. Unforgiveable. Now we're sending 100 or so soldiers into some other hell hole in Africa for dubious reasons. Our track record for nation building is a joke, we need to give it up.

SJmom

Sheep have two speeds: graze and STAMPEDE. Get out of the way when they are in second gear! Some ideas just never do go back into the box.


Buck

Well I appreciate your thoughtful reply, but I don't agree with everything you have put forward. Agreed the MSM takes every opportunity to show Paul in a bad light, but notice he is still causing these same media types to cover him up as much as possible. Interesting isn't it? So he must be doing something right. I disagree about him marketing himself, we have had too much of candidates being packaged as a consumer product. Ayway most of the time the pol you buy doesn't match up with his/her product label, so let's bag the consumer politics model. Let's talk about ideas, not some slick, grinning, white toothed commercial for the crap that's being pedalled.

That's the thing with Paul he talks about ideas that are sensible, reality based. Good lord the heresy of it all, :). So he will be pushed out of the MSM mercilessly and more money for his campaign might not help, censorship and fear trumps money. Paul is scaring a lot of folks with lots of power. As I have said before, I don't agree with all of his ideas, but he opens new avenues for discussion and reframes the debate so that things that are steadfastly ignored can be discussed.

Appreciate chatting with ya, take care
loveday

Paul Kemp said: "

Ron Paul is a Bible Thumper because he quotes biblical text in his discussions. A bible thumper is someone who believes in God, someone who reads the bible, someone that quotes the bible, someone who turns to the bible for guidance.

Ron Paul, in his speeches, cites chapter and verse from the Bible. For example:

But the value of the family was something that was early described in the Bible. And there’s one reference to the family that I thought was very important. That was in Samuel, 1 Samuel, chapter eight.

Ron Paul has not hidden the fact that his policy recommendations are Bible-based, as evidenced by Ron Paul's speech at the recent Values Voter Summit.

I will not vote for a Bible-thumping life-long Republican politician from Texas. We've had enough of conservative Christian Texan politicians, like Bush. Bush ran the country into the deficit ditch so deep we may never get out.

When is the last time a Republican president balanced our national budget?

I'd be careful about criticizing the president these days.He can meet with his staff and decide to liquidate an American citizen with no due process or trial. Does this mean if we had an enlightened president he could decide to assassinate bank officers because corporations have the rights of citizens? If only.

Good lord, American liberals great white hope Canada depends on oil and gas exports to pay for its bloated welfare state, its another damn ponzi scheme. Watching Holmes on Homes anyone can see it too is a farce of sanctimonious leftists perpetrating a housing bubble consisting of oversized crappily built houses in the middle of a snow bank, what a joke.

The founders were against theocracy and the constitution is clear about separation of Church and State.I'm an Agnostic but I believe Ron Paul would defend freedom of religion or freedom of no religion. Don't worry about Ron Paul. He has no chance.His enemies include the military industrial complex, drug dealers,big unions,the media , banksters and wallstreet .However Ron Pauls views will look prescient in5or 10 yrs.

Asoka asks: "When is the last time a Republican president balanced our national budget?"

Dwight Eisenhower was last Republican President to preside over a balanced budget. He had a balanced budget in 1956 and 1957. Since then, there have been two presidents to preside over balanced budgets, LBJ in 1969 and Clinton in 1998 through 2001. During the last 40 years there have been five budget surpluses, all five were under Democratic Presidents: 1969, 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001.

"There's something wrong with this man and he still has enough followers to really hurt us."

The only people dumber than the ones that voted for W the second time, are those who will vote for Obama the second time.

Been saying it for 20+ years: REELECT NOBODY!

Nice to see you finally lose your faith in Barack James. What were you thinking? Here's a recap of '68 for you, the guys in suits standing behind the podium and in front of the flags? Those guys are not on your side, no matter what they say or how charming they might be. Now don't do it again you very naughty boy.

And before you wet yourselves with glee Teebaggaz, Ron Paul is your Obama. Deal with it and support you local anarchists.

Herman Cain was asked who he wanted for Fed Chairman. Answered: Someone like Alan Greenspan. Exit Mr Cain, stage left please.

The whole system has to be redone. End the Fed and get back on the gold standard - if there is any gold left that is. A monumental task, and one that Ron Paul has devoted his life to. Does he stand a chance? I think they would assasinate him before letting him get in. They have already proven their willingness and ability to go to war over things that are merely perhipheral to their interests - like Vietnam. They certainly will not let America be taken from them as long as it has any wealth or power that they can siphon off.

So why do Anarchists march with Communists? Isn't kind of, well, Stupid? They should be marching with Libertarians, or the Tea Baggers as they are called by Douche Bags.

Wolfbay said: "Don't worry about Ron Paul."

LOL! I'm not worried. Obama is going to win in 2012 and the Republicans are helping him with each vote they cast against his jobs bill, with each vote they cast against jobs for police, firefighters, teachers, etc.

Ron Paul will be 78 in 2012. Too old to be POTUS. We don't need another Alzheimers President.

Neither corporate America nor the US military will allow anybody over 70 to be in a position of responsibility in their organizations. Ron Paul will not become president at age 78.

"...unless you are anti-gay, anti-black, anti-equality, anti-education, anti-woman, and anti-senior citizen."

"anti-" has such a negative connotation. Can't you be a little more accurate?

Brown doesn't have national experience, and that disqualifies him as a viable presidential candidate? Say what? It's usually a governor without national experience who gets elected these days, e.g., Carter, Reagan, W. Bush.

Brown first ran for president I believe in 1976. Though the mainstream media have mostly ignored him for the last three decades, he has been a national public figure since 1974. Actually, he may have too much experience to run for president, as political life in the real world has caused him to temper the b.s. rhetoric. Afraid he's too much in the habit of candor for American tastes.

To fight the Bankers is to fight the Jews. This is not so in essence - since most Jews aren't super rich Bankers. Rather, it is so by Choice: the Jews will always support their Super rich kinsmen no matter what they do.

If the Fed is ever audited, it will be found to be owned by the Rothschilds and their associates. Sure there are probably a few Gentiles - Satisfied? No? Ok, we'll also have to fight all the Gentile Elites who are in bed with them and allowed their ascendancy. You have to be satisfied with that because it's the Truth.


Asoka said:
I will not vote for a Bible-thumping life-long Republican politician from Texas. We've had enough of conservative Christian Texan politicians, like Bush. Bush ran the country into the deficit ditch so deep we may never get out.
***************************************************************

Here is one place, Asoka, where I emphatically support your viewpoint. Ron Paul claims to be Libertarian which means a strict Constitutionalist. However, a strict Constitutionalist believes that God has no place in discussions of government.
Period.

I, too, have come to distrust his "selective Constitutionalism" and , in no way, can I support Paul's candidacy for President. I also do not trust Paul to dismantle programs like Social Security in a humane way ... meaning that, at least, people getting a certain amount of money NOW won't just be starved. Paul's radical anti-governmentalism scares me.


E.

thanks Vlad for pointing me 2 Taki Mag...:

[A FRIEND OF MINE WENT TO CLINTONS GALA AND BUMPED INTO PAUL ALLEN FROM MICROSOFT FAME....]

William Jefferson Clinton signed NAFTA—perhaps the biggest single blow to the American middle and working classes in the past generation—into law. He bears partial blame for the subprime mortgage scandal.

When he left office, he left every American man, woman, and child nearly $5,500 deeper in debt than they were the day he took office.


Then there’s Whitewater and Vince Foster and Chinagate and impeachment and perjury and disbarment and dead witnesses and multiple suicides.

So along comes Bill Clinton to remind the world that he hangs out with HIV-positive kids at Cambodian orphanages and wants to prevent tobacco-related deaths in sub-Saharan Africa and how he helped small businesses in Harlem and really hates malaria and spends sleepless nights crying about Haiti’s plight.........................

Pardon me, but I don’t think I have a dog in this here fight...................................

How does the average American benefit from his excessive bursts of philanthropy? During the other night’s concert, I don’t remember anyone making a peep about the average American, nor so much as acknowledging that such a species exists.

For the 2007 tax year, the William J. Clinton Foundation took in around $130 million, over a third of which came from government grants.

So not only does the average non-cosmopolitan American taxpayer likely not benefit from his organization, they’re actually being forced to pay part of the bill for him to indulge his narcissistic messiah fantasies on his dusky, exotic, starving AIDS pets halfway around the globe................................

Read more: http://takimag.com/article/bill_clintons_decade_of_autofellatio/page_2#ixzz1b4gONPN1

Obamas :
anti-white,
anti-citizen,
anti-American,
anti-truth,
anti-fiscal responsibility....
and probably a few other things

For those who wonder about Obamas relatives theres a great article at TakiMag.

"However Ron Pauls views will look prescient in5or 10 yrs."

His views are prescient NOW, unchanged after thirty+ years. He predicted exactly what happened in 2008, in September of 2003! Come on people!


SJ Mom said:
I will be forever ticked off that we sent military aid to Libya. Unforgiveable. Now we're sending 100 or so soldiers into some other hell hole in Africa for dubious reasons. Our track record for nation building is a joke, we need to give it up.
******************************************************************

Such is the nature of American politics that I find Obama's implemented policies to be to the RIGHT of Eisenhower. However, one had to be very, very suspicious of Obama right from the get-go because he kept Defense Secretary Gates (Bush Jr.'s guy and a Republican), he kept Bernanke (chose by Bush Sr.), and some crooks from Clinton's administration like Larry Summers and Rubin.

What remains of the progressive Democrats is pretty much Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders (who I think is great). Not only are the current Democrats supporting things like the Patriot Act but they keep re-upping the money for more military adventurism (Yemen? Oh, dear).

Both parties have gone to a very dark form of Rightist politics that seems to feature a lack of ACTION and a lack of care for the majority of financially suffering workers. America, in short, has already become a Corporate Fascist state. The two parties are just "wings" of a unified Kleptocracy.

E.


Azgog said:
As for violence it may be inevitable but I think it will be instigated/provoked by the State that represents and is commanded by the 1%. Before it comes to that we would be wise to take violent financial action. The big banks are going to FAIL, so MOVE YOUR MONEY now to a smaller, local, more stable community bank or credit union. They offer all the services of the big banks, direct deposit (if you are so lucky), etc. Don't worry about ATMs, remember you can get cashback at the store.
**************************************************************

Do you have any numbers about liquidity ratios of credit unions and community banks relative to large banks? By the way, not all of the very large banks made huge bets on CDO's and hand out subprime mortgages like candy. Comerica, for example, is pretty stable.

Any numbers you give would be very enlightening. Thanks.

E.

The "gold standard" will not change things one iota. The gov mafia will still debase currency, ad infinitum. They've done it throughout history and they'll do it again. Roseanne Barr in her recent interview with Max Keiser, mentioned the need for what she called a 'living currency'. That was a very astute comment to make, and actually I was shocked to hear it coming from someone like Roseanne Barr. Unfortunately, Max Keiser did not pursue that thought and idea and the implications thereof.

We had a living currency before. During the most prosperous time for Europe, the real currency that was being used was grain. This, btw, was also the currency that was being used in ancient Israel, the Israeli Shekel being a measurement of weight equal to 180 grains of barley.

the current resident of the white house is taking the high road approach much like herbert hoover did during the great depression.

but without the oil in the ground .

he is a one term president.

bye bye .

Anyone having any dealings with communists isn't an anarchist. We learned that lesson back in Spain.

No deals, no alliances. Anarchy is coming whether you like it or not. You can't afford a state.

If things get worse (a given), and nothing is resolved by spring, all it will take is one "match"...

You have to be satisfied with that because it's the Truth.
==

That's not the truth. The truth is that these so-called Jews (like the Rothschilds), are the go-between for the Vatican mafia. This is verifiable fact. The Rothschilds are hired managers. Hired men that came from nothing. They were made by Vatican money. And they are the public face behind which the Vatican with its vast ancient and modern imperial fortunes hides.

In 1307, Pope Clement V, based in France, with the help of the French king, Philip IV, took over European banking by destroying the Knights Templars. The Templars were the first to devise a world banking system. With the Templars burnt and disposed of as heretics by the Vatican, the Vatican mafia got direct control over the Templars' world banking network. EVERYTHING that you see today in world politics, especially relating to the New World Order, is an offshoot of Vatican banking and political machinations. The constant reincarnation of the Roman fascist Reich, is not a coincidence. It is and it was a Vatican pursuit since its inception. World domination and a one world government is what the Vatican is all about.

Bullshit! "We are broke as a country" Except when we want to spend trillions bombing other defenseless countries, torturing and killing their inhabitants, or spying upon our own people. It's our priorities that are bankrupt, our morals that are bankrupt! Anyway, what do you mean WE?

Deity on a Dinosaur, Peeples!
Put the fucking brakes on the False Hope Express.
Enough with the national savior foolishness.
What? You think things will return to "growth" and warm, wet cornucopian fantasies?
Give it up and get ready for privation the very best that you can, 'cause ain't NOBODY gonna "fix" this broke-down, used-up, rotted-from-the-inside wagon. Faith in the folks directly around you is what's gonna be "the decider". (Hopefully you don't have the misfortune of living next to THAT dumbfuck.)
The only way out is through; and if you join some Idjit Army, you'll be ground up and spit out.
Don't expect me to follow into your political bible-study group. Jeeeeezus, get a clue!

-Powder dry; head down.

Over 90 million Americans already bank at credit unions. CUs are non-profit, democratic and community based. They don't deal in credit swap derivatives and they don't pay their executives millions of dollars in bonuses. They have better capital ratios than banks. They are insured up to 250K per member by the Federal Gov't via the NCUSIF, which is more liquid than the FDIC.
B of A is going to FAIL. Stick with them if you want but as for me I'm voting with the Union.

"If things get worse (a given), and nothing is resolved by spring, all it will take is one "match"..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGDo1Jybs_I

"World domination and a one world government is what the Vatican is all about."

The people you denigrate {on this blog} have less in common with the Vatican than you do the so-called jews.

So why are you so hot and bothered? You're not interested in the truth, especially as it regards the web of Roman imperialist lies you call the "New Testament". What you're interested in is Roman imperialism, thieving, bloodlust for mass murder, and domination over others.

"Something unseen goes through them..."

As Albert Bartlett said: "The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function."

And that is the fuse: What we have is a failure to communicate--the exponent; pillar-by-pillar the U.S. financial underpinnings are crumbling, but those pillars are all interdependent: the disintegration of one pillar weakens the next which weakens the next, ad collapsium.

This thing is about to go hyperbolic--downward; it's going to seem to have come from nowhere; it's going to take masses of people by surprise; it's going to kill millions.

The one definitely positive outcome? Everything the oligarchs thought they "owned" will be worthless. Want revenge? Shoot the angry guy in the suit...

This IS a little spooky. It does smack of the 1960's and upcoming Kent State events. Ay Carumba

No time for anything right now.

I couldn't even read everyone's comments but I will add one thing to the discussion and JHK may not be wrong about Obama.

Last week I caught an interview where someone asked a commentator, what would be Obama's worst fear and the commentator said, "If he has to bail out the banks again....."

It could happen. Unfortunately for all of us we don't have the kind of leadership that will split up the banks!!

That will be our biggest downfall!

Juletta, we're in NE Ohio, and we had the best eggplants this year, I think because of the microclimate on the South side of the house with the brick wall retaining and radiating the heat from the Sun. Its true, though, successfull gardening (or farming) is an art as much as Science, because conditions in thesame place vary from year to year, and one has to have an intuition as well as technical skills to grow thingswell consistently, IMHO

Great piece!!! James-have you read Jim Harrison's "The Great Leader" yet? It is a must!!!

As Nassim Taleb has written over and over there is a Black Swan waiting to unfold its unforeseen wings. Yet, they have opened and it is today. The young Black Swan is Occupying Wall Street and Occupying Everywhere.

As you, James, are indicating, there could be another. That being a debacle on Wall Street. If that were to happen, the raucous audience is waiting out the door and on the street to take down the walls on which Humpty Dumpty has been sitting on for over 30 years.

Obama is inept. He has been getting his strings pulled by the corporate oligarchs, and very soon, those strings might melt and down he goes.

Actually, he should just leave. Let Democrats compete for the primary position, since Obummer is a drag on the nation.

http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

Hi Juletta

Greetings from the Seattle area - I am not a farmer but I think that this year has been good for most crops. We are now in the midst of a multi-year La Nina weather pattern which typically yields a longer and cooler rainy season than normal. Another interesting fact is that this season has been really good for the salmon fisheries.

With our abundant waterways and relatively high quality farming soil, we may be better prepared for the long emergency than others. The salmon run at Issaquah creek (just 5 blocks from my home) was a real sight to watch and it looks as if at least fish will still be around to eat!!

Evenin' Fairguy. I'll agree this year the garden in NE was gangbusters. Still no frost. I think the mega rains even kept the bugs down. I usually get early blight on the 'matoes but they are still producing. perhaps the heavy rains kept the spores down, which seems like an oxymoron to me. Go figure

JHK wrote:
"If they don't go apeshit in the next two weeks ..."

Jim, it would be nice to see some real apeshit protesters in the USA. But, I don't see it happening. Things aren't bad enough just yet. Yes, some are really hurting, but it hasn't reached critical mass. I still think the USA has another 10 years left, maybe even more. But Peak Oil will take care of us nonetheless. I will say this, time lines are hard to call, but we (the USA) and world is in a Long Emergency - and most don't know it.

.888 guns per person ! I had no idea. wow I better dump a couple dozen! Oh shit, there I go. Now I am on the watch list again!

You knew better than to deny it, with proof.

Only tricks and no treats this Halloween.

"...it's going to seem to have come from nowhere; it's going to take masses of people by surprise;.."

"For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste." Revelation of John, Chapter 18

The three things that I think about..

1) Where is that 300 trillion in toxic worldwide CDO's going to land and how much of it do US banks own?

2) After the G/S book cooking that got Greece into the EU.. when does the can they've been kicking down the road hit the wall..

3) When will municipalities go bankrupt due to unfunded pension obligations...

Any 1 of the three will do us in.. all three are a perfect storm of mega proportions

Maybe you are on to something here. The majority of banksters are Christians!

They also have a conspiracy to get Nobel prizes. They control the Swedish selection committee so they award themselves the prize. Kunstler is probably in with the banksters also.He can't help it ,being a Jew.

"We played the game in 1968."
-jhk-

Yeah, we played the game in '68. The people lost and the corporations won then, too. And there were better slogans in '68.

Hell no, we won't go!
Ho Ho Ho Chi Min, Ho Chi Min is gonna win!

And what are the rhyming slogans of the OWSERS??

While I talk on my cell phone -
Please reduce my student loan!

End corporate personhood -
That would be really good!

==================
So while it may be that the US of A and our poor tortured Planet need a revolution -
I don't think this is going to be it.

And how is it that the wired in and socially networked OWSERS aren't using all of those internet connected 3G and 4G cellphones to organize something, ANYTHING - with 100's of thousands of participants interacting and voting?

http://debategraph.org/home

It's not about individual Christians, or even individual Catholics, it's about the Vatican and the Vatican mafia as an institution. The Vatican cares about Christians just as much as the Vatican siths, the Rothschilds, care about Jews, that is to say, they don't. These are professional parasites, and it's not by coincidence. Because the Vatican and the Central Banks are one and the same. The Vatican owns the Central Banks. They are the Central Banks.

Anyway, I think Dmitry Orlov has it right. Their time is coming to an end.

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2011/10/crossroads-lecture-on-fall-of-american.html

"Something unseen goes through them, perhaps like the pheromone that transforms a field full of grasshoppers into a ravening swarm of locusts. Being people, they cannot take wing. But they can press forward and up against things, and they can surely break the glass in those sleek curtain-wall buildings"
Great descriptive writing, which is why I read the blog in the first place. No matter what the numbers among the protestors. No revolution is in the offing. Status quo will prevail. Just accept it.

Remember the "riots" in London and other English cities this past summer? The cops came down like a ton of bricks on those lads. You can count on that in New York and other cities when the boys utilize their overabundant testosterone.

The OWS has achieved a small victory in that it lasted long enough and grew large enough that the political powers and their media flunkies couldn't ignore it. But what now? It looks like the ruling elite in North America at least will pay as little attention as possible and hope that the OWS will melt away with the first snow flakes. The OWS movement needs to decide if it can develop stategies to ride out winter or should it take this small victory and use winter to bring its disparate groups together for a spring push when primary season opens in the U.S. Should the OWS movement try to make a pitch to the portion of the 99% that are fipping channels between reality t.v., sitcoms, or sports and are now just realizing what they are watching isn't the movie channel but a "real event". Does the OWS even attempt to appeal to mainstream media which cannot understand a movement which represents a multiplicity of issues and groups which don't fit into their neat 30 second sound bites. How can the OWS convey that the current model of corporate governance affects virtually every aspect of our lives? These and dozens more questions will need to be addressed by the OWS movement and soon. Sort of like my dilemma out here in an outpost of the empire do I put the tackle box away till spring or keep it out and prepare to do some ice fishing?

As a boomer, I have to say that my generation is probably the worst in history. We have saddled our children & grandchildren with a debt that they can never repay. I'd like to see the OWS movement become more focused on this issue. At this point, I think an intergenerational war is unavoidable. Social Security & pensions,even for those already on them, are not safe.

Also, our systems of production have become so efficient that jobs can now be done with far fewer people. Businesses hire as few people as they can get away with and work their employees to death. We can never consume all that can be produced. Hence, high unemployment will be a problem for as long as the eye can see!

Here in Berkeley our summer was so cold, windy and foggy that only the potatoes, cabbage and kale did well. Did get a few strawberries. Forget the tomatoes, peppers and beans.

Jill in Berkeley

You certainly picked an accurate handle for yourself.

The Internet.

Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala!

Azgog said:
Over 90 million Americans already bank at credit unions. CUs are non-profit, democratic and community based. They don't deal in credit swap derivatives and they don't pay their executives millions of dollars in bonuses. They have better capital ratios than banks. They are insured up to 250K per member by the Federal Gov't via the NCUSIF, which is more liquid than the FDIC.
B of A is going to FAIL. Stick with them if you want but as for me I'm voting with the Union.
******************************************************************

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. Now I will do my
own due diligence.

E.

There is a bird in poem by T.S. Eliot who says that man cannot bear much reality, but the bird is mistaken. A man can endure the entire weight of the universe for 80 years. It is unreality that he cannot bear.

Time's cyclical descent into insanity is well documented in American culture.

I talk to people all the time who admire me "despite the fact" I'm an American.

I don't know any of them, but they read my blog posts.

They know I love women, in particular, one woman. One woman above all others.

Today, I will marry her.

Via con dios, muchachos.

The next time we meet, I may have a family. I know most of you would think that they couldn't possibly justify reproducing.

But sometimes, you find someone worth reproducing... for THEIR half of the equation. If the kid ends up with my demon half, my mark of cain half, my SATAN HALF, then we'll have the kid from the OMEN.

As for me, its off to the rubbish bin- the GREAT TRASH BIN IN THE SKY... my organs will be out for donation... spare parts to fill the family garage... I'll be gone, like a blink of an eye.

Sayonara, friends.

Goodbye. It's been great chatting with you! All of you- I mean it.

Au'Revior... Paris is beautiful- at least... this time of year.

And eyesore of the month! OH THANK HEAVEN FOR SEVEN ELEVEN....

Paintings: well, I'm liking what I'm seeing there. There will be enough to like on JHK's site for a long time to come.

Oh well. I should be going.

Say my thanks to all of you.

Thanks very much.

I'll leave you with a prediction:

Ron Paul in 2016.

And to everyone else:

FUCK THE REPUBLICANS GIVE ME MY RON PAUL

Christianity: A prayer in search of an answer.

Is it 32?

33% of Americans STILL believe in JEASUS CHRIST.


As a retrospective, the analysts say, "The religion bubble, like all bubbles must eventually burst".

(Luckily they pay no taxes- which if you think about it means there is a lot of real estate locked up in churches)

Oh well.

There's always next year.

OR the year after that, or the year after that.

Ron Paul could reach his nineties with the administration of modern medicine.

I understand the man as a Christian scientist, in that he doesn't step beyond the boundaries of the book. The book didn't mention stem cells, so he won't. He'll say something about abortion, maybe once, but the Bible isn't a constitution. The Bible didn't say "abortion must be illegal".

He might turn out to be sane.

I don't know, we'll see what the Republicans vote for. You know its going to be Romney.

Romney's had the nomination since two tuesdays ago.

Romney would make a great American president. Unlike any of the other candidates he doesn't follow Old World Religion.

Mormons are more American than all of Christian America. They made up their bullshit RIGHT HERE.

Rick Perry looks like dogshit.

Don't networks put pancake on or something? Shellac?

I'm no spring chicken, but love erases all laugh lines. Nothing smooths the curves like love. All is grey in the eyes of love. It is the state of pure honey acceptance.

Ron's embraced his inner Hobbit. Thats why he needs a pulpit.

Hes not a phony. He can't pull it off.

Of course, Republicans can't get it together enough to nominate someone genuine.

Thus we've come to the write in ballot.

Now, I have no faith in the system and less in any of you.

But who cares? The bottom line is that nothing matters.

Politics is a lark.

We have only tomorrow, and the tomorrows after that.

Of course, the obstinate idiocy of the American public could outlast almost anyone who tried to break into the executive office.

We are not an opportune species, are we (the American body politic).

Looking forward to the new read Jim! Guess I've got to get one of those new fangled electromatic readers.
Had the opportunity to join the OWS crowd (about 3,000+ not counting the 100 or so cops surrounding us)this past Saturday in Phoenix, Az. For the most part the group was well behaved, nobody was breaking up the furniture or engaging in lawn sex. Oh well, must of got there too early for that part of the demonstration.
Seems to me the dominant themes were; too much "greed" (in general by all, corporate in specific) and legalize everything. I had my sign; "Occupy Democracy not Corporatism". Had a guy ask "WTF, what does that mean?" Really, which one word do you understand that's ((hint) not) monosyllabic? Think, to inhabit or to possess. Corporatism as in the 21st Century version not the 19th Century version, big diff. Still don't get it? Boy, we're got a major climb up the ol' learning curve in this country.
If this were France we would all just go on strike and watch a few cars burn in the street while enjoying a glass of wine and munching on a cheese crescent at the local cafe.
Still it was good to see people of all ages braving the 95 degree heat for the sake of the Union. Given that most of the locals have already packed away the sunblock it made for a dangerous time indeed.
It'll be interesting to see what happens this spring...OWS is planning an April rally in D.C.

In the mean time, to keep it light and to remind everyone of the wonderful place we all occupy, enjoy today's musical selection;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ABIkH7m0s

And keep it positive, we'll need every sane and able person on deck shortly.

That is what I think, any violence will be instigated by the state, then all hell may break lose. and you know who will take the blame.

Why did the protests in Rome turn violent ? because Italy is worse off than Greece because it has:

1) A huge UNPERCEIVED and people are UNAWARE of it, housing bubble with prices of rents (1,000 euros a month) to salary (800 euros a month) in the Major Cities more than EVEN ONE! And prices (300,000 euros for 50 sqm or 700 sqft house) to salaries (10,000 euros a year) 30 to 1. Talk about "affordability"!;

2) Unemployment, no hope of work at all, the country is going down the toilet fast, nothing left to do for millions of young kids, they will just smash the country up;

3) A huge dominant majority of reactionary, right wing voters repressing any kind of change and completely supporting Berlusconi because they desperately want to protect their Real Estate Prices no matter what;

4) No money left for anything, huge corruption, no hope for any possible improvement in any possible area;

Hence, the country will go down the toilet and explode (and watch out when it does because they have 1,500 billion dollars of debt that won't be paid back to anyone anymore, good luck with that).

A lot of their problems seem similar to what is happening in the USA.

The solution would be:

1) Cheap Rents (not more than 200 dollars a month for 80 sqm or 1,200 sq ft house);

2) The government hires 5 million kids in Research and Development and Science, even just to do nothing at all, just give them a free salary of 800 dollars a month;

3) Huge public-private projects, skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, and such.

AMEN.

And what is really needed is a huge worldwide economic deflation, all prices of all goods should go way, way down. Rents 200 dollars a month, salaries 800 dollars, free health care and college, and cheap everything, deflation is the only way to go, deflate, deflate, low prices ever lower prices of all! I saw the assets of the major companies valued at thousands of billions of dollars and such, those numbers are made up, fake, cannot correspond to reality, there is no way that Fannie May has 3,000 billion dollars in assets, it is pretend money, it cannot correspond to real exchanges and jobs, it would be equivalent to 30 million jobs at 10,000 dollars a year for ten years, no way that that potential of exchange is really in the system, no way jose, erase all the fairy tale numbers, GET REAL!

There is the potential for a lot of fairy tale, "service economy", "Information Workers" like exchanges (just like blogs and facebook and cell phone chat and meetings and such) but most of these in the long run won't put food on the table anymore, most will reveal their optional, not necessary nature, and that is why we need the government to hire millions and give them a free salary even to just do nothing at all (and cheap rents). From: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176934

AMEN.


From:

From: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176934

[quote="Flannel Jesus"]Your solutions don't make sense. People don't have enough money so RAISE THE TAXES ON EVERYONE SO WE CAN GO TO MARS! There's a reason why most of your threads are just you preaching to yourself.[/quote]

You don't have to raise the taxes, just give the trillions of dollars the Federal Reserve constantly prints to new workers instead of the banks and already super rich, hand them out to millions of new workers that the government (and only the government can hire since a private person hiring would require them to "produce" or "work" or "be productive", all things that are no longer necessary or operating anymore, obsolete since a Technological Economy has made most work obsolete, not needed, has optimized and increased labor productivity up to the point that you need very few people to do the real work and all of that Automatic Production, Automatic For The People can support many others just doing pretend work or even simply, bluntly and proudly "Nothing At All") decides to hire to do Nothing At All and also for Research and Development and Science and to build Skyscrapers and Rockets to Mars.

We need more government, not less, we need the government to hire and step up to solve the problems, not the market and the private enterprise and corporations since they cannot solve these problems, only an abstract, all powerful government (you may call it socialist) can do the trick.

And anyways, we need more taxes, ever more and higher taxes as taxes are for the common good, for the general society, it is the only mechanism available to redistribute the wealth from the rich to the poor, the wealthy won't give it out by themselves, they must be forced by the government and the only way is by taxing them, tax them hugely, tax them heavily and tax all, ever more taxes and ever more millions hired by the government. That is my solution. Do you have any better idea ?

Probably not, I am the only one who has a concrete easy to follow and understand solution, I don't hide my solution beyond abstractions and indirections that don't mean anything at all like "more education" or "more competition" or "more small businesses" since all of those fluff solutions really simply mean, we won't do anything at all, just leave everything as it is (as it is in favor of the rich only).

[quote="Flannel Jesus"][quote="nameta9"]You don't have to raise the taxes, just give the trillions of dollars the Federal Reserve constantly prints to new workers[/quote]
Jesus christ, your OP says "DEFLATION NEEDED" but your solution involves deliberate inflation. You're clueless.[/quote]

There would be no inflation in my solution because deflation would follow the low salaries the government pays forcing all goods to cost appropriately, the salary is 800 dollars a month, dude, no inflation here, only deflation big time.

Can anybody lend me a few grand to buy a Kia micro car - the banks laugh at me. I need it for a little business I set up collecting wild honey and delivering it to my friends and neibours.
What the fuck, maybe i will wait a few weeks and just take it anyway. Wonder if i will be able to get gas for it?

From:

http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176934

[quote="ags83"]Spend some time more time researching and learning how reality works. Here is a good starting point .... http://mises.org/.[/quote]

Do you think that there is an "External Reality" that is working objectively, independently from us, our mind, our models, how we decompose and define its entities ? Especially in issues like "Economics", there is no "Reality", it is a man made construction, an ideology, an invention, a program that people follow, as in "Man is the Infinitely Programmable Machine". The economy works by Design, according to how someone decided it should be Designed, according to a set of arbitrary rules of interaction and engagement that achieved a consensus through "Brainwashing", aka "Programming People to Look at Things and Interact in a Predetermined Fashion, Just Because", for no deeper reason than the dominating powers relationship (and therefore ideological and psychological relationships) that are operating and that has achieved the maximum consensus through Mass Media and Education (as a device to brainwash people), it is a totally programmable system, it can be run according to any rules, any interactions, any definitions none of which is better or superior to any other, etc.

Today most people are brainwashed with a fairy tale construction of economy based on "The Invisible Hand of the Market" and other such BS, there is no invisible hand, there are no indirect mechanism such as "less taxes create jobs", "new jobs will be created by small businesses", they are all false, make believe causes and effects that are very convenient to use by the dominating class against the working classes, read all my past posts.

I think we can use a good mixed system, both private and public, so when people want to think that they are Superstars and Heros developing new breakthrough companies and technologies (it is all mostly a make believe thing, all those novelties are already know, mostly a hype machine) give them the venture capital and set them up in Silicon Valley, but for all the other millions, give them Free Salaries, Cheap Rents, make them proudly do "Nothing At All", build Rockets to Mars, Research and Development and build Skyscrapers and such.

Now is a moment when the government has to hire millions to kick start it up again, and in a sense, to save the Capitalist Economy from itself, to save it from being a "Victim of its Own Success", from being too extreme and optimizing too many jobs away.

Only the government can hire since a private person hiring would require them to "produce" or "work" or "be productive", all things that are no longer necessary or operating anymore, obsolete since a Technological Economy has made most work obsolete, not needed, has optimized and increased labor productivity up to the point that you need very few people to do the real work and all of that Automatic Production, Automatic For The People can support many others just doing pretend work or even simply, bluntly and proudly "Nothing At All".

And anyways, we need more taxes, ever more and higher taxes as taxes are for the common good, for the general society, it is the only mechanism available to redistribute the wealth from the rich to the poor, the wealthy won't give it out by themselves, they must be forced by the government and the only way is by taxing them, tax them hugely, tax them heavily and tax all, ever more taxes and ever more millions hired by the government. That is my solution. Do you have any better idea ?

Congratulations on the upcoming nuptials!

I have always enjoyed your perspectives, even if you ARE an "exceptional" American crank. ;o)
I'll miss the scathing screeds on Authoritarian mindsets (or lack thereof).

Enjoy yourself, whatever you do; some good wine and lots of laughs are wished for you and yours.

If it should come down to it, join the Resistance; they've got a proud tradition of it over yonder! Reprisals? What do we care for your stinking reprisals? Vive la vie; vive l'amour; La mort attend toujours!
;o)

[quote="Flannel Jesus"]Nameta apparently thinks resources are infinite and the government just magically has all this stuff to give away, and they're keeping it from us. Sorry to break the news to ya, but it's not quite like that.[/quote]

No, it is People, Property Owners, but especially Corporations with their hugely inflated Market Value and Assets Value that think they are hugely Richer than what they are. It is the necessity to maintain such a hugely inflated Assets Value marking that corporations and even so many private citizens have that inflated Real Estate values way out of proportion worldwide. And people also want hugely inflated salaries and such, such as doctors in the USA making 300,000 dollars a year, totally insane amount of money, they should not make more than 80,000 dollars a year tops, and the same with all things Health Care and College and you name it. Worldwide salaries are now standard: from about 100 to 800 dollars a month, this is what salaries should be for most people in all countries, except for some really talented superstars (and they do not number in the tens millions worldwide, maybe a few million tops).

As I said, I saw the assets of the major companies valued at thousands of billions of dollars and such, those numbers are made up, fake, cannot correspond to reality, there is no way that Fannie May has 3,000 billion dollars in assets, it is pretend money, it cannot correspond to real exchanges and jobs, it would be equivalent to 30 million jobs at 10,000 dollars a year for ten years, no way that that potential of exchange is really in the system, no way jose, erase all the fairy tale numbers, GET REAL!

Is it my unenviable fate to be bracketed by endless reams of endless redundancies from a mind even more unsound than my own?
Hi-dee Ti-dee, Krise Al-mi-dee...

We shall see.

[quote="turtle"][quote="Flannel Jesus"]well, i'm not really confused. i just meant that was his apparent goal.[/quote]

nameta9 was your goal to confuse us?[/quote]

It took me a lot of time to figure this all out, I may even be completely wrong, who cares, it is a kind of puny hobby I have, I could care less about this or anything. But the point is, there are some really deep contradictions operating, there is something hugely wrong in all of the models, proposals, ideas that have been flying around in the last years about the "Economy", "Growth", "Competition", "Innovation", "Productivity", you name it, and also, all of the formulas the FED and BCE and governments propose to "solve the problems" seem way off bat (fire government workers (while the exact opposite should be done, hire government workers by the millions just to give them a salary), cut services, save money here and there, etc.). I see these large scale trends operating more than anything else and determining most of the problems:

1) Technological Economy eliminating jobs faster than replacing them no matter what (Optimizations, Robots, Internet, Innovations, you name it, third world labor at 100 dollars a month, etc.) and no one has any answers or even barley recognizes this;

2) Huge Real Estate Inflation worldwide and the entire worldwide economy paying heavily for it and will keep on paying heavily for it for years to come (JAPAN anyone ? and CHINA is producing an even crazier Bubble building millions of homes that are way out of reach of their puny salaries, go figure);

3) The entire idea of "Jobs" and "Creating Jobs" is flawed because most jobs are an "Option" a "Service" an aesthetical choice, it is all based on fluff, non necessities, make believe things, now how on earth are jobs supposed to be created if they are just fun and games ?

The corporations operate in a separate circuit compared to society as a whole, they are correct in firing people, outsourcing, whatever and the more they fire people the better, who cares, their goal is make a profit, but the greater society finds itself with more and more idle people, what to do ?

So the only logical solution to all of this is Cheap Rents, All The Governments Worldwide hire tens of Millions of people to do bluntly and proudly "Nothing At All", but also, since you have such a huge Excess Productive capacity at hands with millions upon millions of people available, Skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, you name it, Bus systems, Research and Development, etc. The system has so much Excess Productive Capacity that it can build millions of skyscrapers and Rockets to Mars and also hire millions of people to do "Nothing At All" and just look out of the windows in all of the Skyscraper Offices.

Yep, guess so.
Let's see how loooooong the next piece of drooling drivel is going to be...

BTW, I much preferred the "designer fashion" idiocy; at least no one was tempted to actually READ that shit.

Knustler's assumption that OWS is some kind of violent undisciplined mob is very flawed IMO. I have participated in my local Ann Arbor Occupy, and have done a lot of research on the other occupies, ans everything I have seen shows there are many thoughtful people participating with non violent solutions to banker malfeasance, lack of citizen democracy, and the unsustainable path we are on.

James ought to HOPE OWS can help to make a better world, and a soft landing from our current dire situation, while a "Long Emergency" and a "World Made by Hand," of nouveau plantations may make interesting fiction, IMO we are better off hoping for a more fair, participatory, democratic outcome that preserves some measure of convivial civilization.

I do not find the demonizing of the Wall Street Club members helping toward a remedy to heal the harm that stems from their poor behavior. It is too much like all the dehumanizing that fosters rationalizing violence against and the exploitation of our fellow beings. Hating one’s enemy will not conquer one’s enemy but only make the hater more like his enemy. It is not wise to expect different behavior from people whose lives and influences have programmed them to become selfish, arrogant and greedy. If you were in their shoes with their life experiences, would you not be acting pretty much as they are? Empathetic feelings serve the situation much better.

Rather than embracing the attitude that these people have lost their humanity permanently and deserve to be destroyed, I prefer to see them in a different way. I think it is more true that these individuals suffer from a social disease, a cultural paradigm addiction, or that they are simply acting childish with great cost to others. You know what they say, “Your only young once but you can be immature your whole life.” There but for the grace of God go I. This way of thinking evokes in me more understanding and tolerance. These serve as healing balms. I also think attitudes of this sort help us all to awake up and grow up and treat one another in ways that will bring about the peace and plenty that we now ignorantly fight over.

As is the case with any protests, the powers that be will simply try to out wait the protestors. When the fox gets into the chicken coop, there is a lot of flapping & squawking, but eventually the chickens settle back down and are available for more harvesting. Obviously, if it is sustained, there's a better chance of something happening but I'm an old cynic and don't really expect much to come of it. However, I'm gonna send a few bucks in the naive hope that it will help somewhere along the line. The powers that be have a lot of experience dealing with this sort of thing, and they count on the public having the memory (or lifespan) of a mayfly.

from fire andrea mitchelll:

! Someone get one of John Boehner’s boxes of kleenex and send it to someone at Park51.


The radical Muslim group that wants to build their victory mosque, but is far behind in their back rent now.


If you can believe it, the Park51 Victory Mosque project was only paying a minuscule $2,750 per month for rent for that old Burlington Coat factory building.


Yes, just $2,750 per month! Well, that is until the property was appraised and the rent due from these radical Muslims is much higher.


Con Edison claims Park51 owes them $1.7 in back rent. Park51 is claiming they “only” owe Con Edison $881,000.


Supposedly from some other sites, aside from the CNN one, Con Edison has told the Muslims to pay up or be evicted. Right now though, Con Edison is “hopeful” to get a deal done.

I have always figured that withdrawing from American society, to establish a self-sufficient culture apart-from is a great approach.

As someone infinitely wiser said, "Problems can't be solved at the same level of thinking that created them"

Nobody has dared called drones a terrorist weapon and since O-MAN loves them lets hope they aren't used when that unseen thing goes through a field of grasshoppers and they become a ravening swarm of locusts.

For being people, they cannot take wing.

A crazy thought, except the part about drones being terrorist weapons it is. Yet nothing O-MAN has done has shown any love for progressive views so can you really say?

Perhaps the grasshoppers should challenge the democratic nomination. That would ruffle some feathers. It would be another rhyme with history, Chicago 1968. A lot of ape shitting went on there.

YET ONE MORE OUTSOURCING


US Commission on Fine arts.110 million dollar statue

Others have read another concern into the commission’s comments: the sculptor selected for the job, Lei Yixin, is Chinese, and the sculpture is being made in China of buff-colored stone.

(The executive architect for the memorial, Ed Jackson Jr., said granite of that hue and quantity was not available elsewhere.) This “outsourcing,” as critics have called it, has spawned an angry Web site, www.kingisours.com, and an investigation by the inspector general of the Interior Department.

The high degree of furor correlates to the number of people alive who remember Dr. King and feel a sense of private ownership over that memory.


Another factor is that amid the founding fathers, Civil War generals and eminent philanthropists, there are still few traditional statues of blacks.

Hey Jim, half the Obama Administration is from Wall Street, mostly Goldman Sachs, including his Chief of Staff Gentleman Bill Daley. Not a week goes by when Obama himself isn't in NYC hosting yet another $35,000 per plate fund raiser to get himself re-elected. The truth is, Wall Steets' got the awesome power of the US Government backing it up, beginning with Tim Geitner and Bernanke ready to bail them out if things go south again; they could care less about some raggedy college kids with face paint and banging drums in a park in lower Manhattan. The NYPD will make short work of them soon enough.

--WSP7

A couple of weeks ago Q said the protest movement would fizzle out before the World Series.

Now Occupy Wall Street is in 900 cities on four continents. Even in my small town of 10,000 there is an OWS movement targeting Bank of America.

Chris Hedges has covered mass movements as a war correspondent in places like Berlin and Prague. Here is what he says.

"What happens is, in all of these movements...is that the footsoldiers of the police, the blue uniformed police, the mechanisms of control finally don't want to impede the movement. And at that point the power elite is left defenseless." ... "The only thing I can say, having been in the middle of similar movements, is that this one is real. This one could take them all down." -- Chris Hedges, Oct. 17, 2011

The police know very well that they are part of the 99%, not the 1%.

One other thing, these protests don't seem to be having much effect on the markets as the Dow is up about 1000 points since they began.

Asoka the police have been militarized and will do what they are ordered to do.

--WSP7

The psychic-emotional evolution of a "mob" is often unpredictable, but in my view I don't see much violence by the OWSers anytime soon, not enough bloodshed to fill a one gallon paint can.
Maybe some cracked skulls and burning eyes, along with some burning cars and smashed glass, but not much more.

If the OWSers are targeting Wall street, they should also be targeting Obama, but they are not.

Herman Cain has the talent to turn his gaffes into
"jokes". His business "talents" also enabled him to shut down more than half of the GP outlets, putting a few thousand people out of work. A nice slice indeed.

In another context, some say that once you've tried black, you won't go back. Could it be? A black Democrat and then a black Republican as president? Black, back to back? The times are tumultuos enough that I'm beginning to think it's possible.

It all presages and at the same time continues the ongoing "Suicide of a Superpower", Pat Buchanan's incisive new book.

Laurence J. Peter did fine job in the 70's delivering his observation that in a hierarchical-thinking society, one tends to rise to the level of his incompetence. Examples of this are ever more destructive and misery-inducing. What paradigm or structure will replace our current competitive rat race? What will foster the creative problem solving we sorely need and replace the wars and conflicts we now imagine are the only way to attain our personal, limited desires (in the name of freedom)? The OWSers are experimenting with just the thing: direct democracy, consensus (requiring patience, tolerance and understanding), and collect wisdom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dtD8RnGaRQ&feature=player_embedded#!

WSP7, your probably know there are currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, peace officers, and veterans who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic ... and they meant it.

Their oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, not to the bankers, not to the fund managers on Wall Street, and they will keep their oath.

Their numbers are growing. They may be "militarized," but they won’t “just follow orders."

Herman Cain stands no chance of being elected president - No Chance. He has already alienated the Latino(a) vote and he will lose New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada and possibly Arizona if nominated.

Herman Cain is just foil to move Romney to the right. Which in itself will prove disastrous when Romney's past legislative endorsements are juxtaposed against his preposterous anti-Obamacare rhetoric. The flip-flops ads will write themselves on that accord.

President Obama is NOT the second coming of Jimmy Carter and there is no Ted Kennedy to divide the party with a nomination challenge. Oh and one more thing: Elizabeth Warren is going to run Centerfold Boy out of the Senate - bet on it.

Buck Stud said: "He [Cain] has already alienated the Latino(a) vote and he will lose New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada and possibly Arizona if nominated."

==============

Obama may have some trouble with the Latino(a) vote also. Obama has deported 400,000 undocumented immigrants, more than any other president in American history.

Eventually it will go the way of Greece, but not likely until more stench visibly emanates from Wall Street and Washington and it becomes obvious to even the common Joe just how bankrupt the US really is. This will occur simultaneously with pension losses and many other cutbacks, increasing unemployment, etc. and maybe even a stock market crash and dollar collapse. Then we will have burning street tires, Molotov cocktails and broken windows. For now there is peace, and it is a great thing that an empire, regarded the world over as the guiding light of apathy, has inspired FURTHER movements of increasing voice and awareness.

LET MY PEEPHOLE GO: A Review of Presidential Candidates, describes some of the alternatives of change we now have to look forward to.
http://finesmellingpress.blogspot.com

That's a beautiful post, Ront.

That said, the problem with Wall Street, the Central Banks, the big Corporations, the Government Mafia, the Vatican, etc., is that they are a criminal syndicate. They are criminals who made their criminality "legal" by way of philosophical, moral, economic, and judicial corruption. They have debased everything they touched. They have turned human beings into little more than animals. As such, though I understand your sentiment, I believe these criminals need to be treated exactly for they are. They are diseased souls, and I see zero chance for them to ever be reformed. They need to be permanently removed from society. And the system that they created needs to be repudiated and dismantled.

Those who are kind to the cruel, in the end are really cruel to the kind.

That was me ! I am so funny.

I think it was Einstein.

Yeah I actually never felt a part of
American Culture and I am as white as
you can get. Born and raised here in CA.
I've thought I was the strange one, but it
seems to be most every one else. The
whole set up has always seemed like so much
wasted energy. Driving to and fro, and
everything so far apart, etc.


."888 guns per person ! I had no idea. wow I better dump a couple dozen! Oh shit, there I go. Now I am on the watch list again"!

Hey RT, when and how did you get off the list?"

Evenin Jammer, Gettin' off the list was easy. When the OWS movement started,gun totin' Yankees got tossed off and the PTB started eyeballin' all the rabel rowsers at the Wall St protests. The data base was overloaded so they cut me loose. Now there are .888 signs per person in the USA. I am in full support of the protests but I can't get the time off to travel down to NYC. I talk with my money though and deal with a small community bank which is privately held and my local credit union. Mostly cash also. No credit card balance.

Thanks for the breakdown RT. Greylock Credit by chance?

Speaking of protests,on Oct. 18, 1968, the United States Olympic Committee suspended two black athletes, Tommie Smith and John Carlos, for giving a "black power" salute as a protest during a victory ceremony in Mexico City.

For those who do not know Smith and Carlos were American athletes...

from Political Cesspoool.................

what Buchanan finds so alarming.

Buchanan recalls Bill Clinton’s address to the 1998 graduation class of Portland State University where he told them that their children and grandchildren would inhabit a country that “In little more than 50 years, there will be no majority race in the United States. No other nation in history has gone through demographic change of this magnitude in so short a time….”

As Buchanan rightly notes,

This episode is astonishing.

Here was a president of the United States telling a largely white student body the day is coming when their own kind will cease to be the majority in a country where the majority rules. Most peoples would sit in stunned silence at such a revelation, or rise in rage at the prospect. The Portland State students cheered the news of the coming minority status to which they and their children have been consigned by their government.

Imagine a Mexican president or Japanese prime minister lecturing to Mexican or Japanese college students and telling them they should welcome their coming minority status in their own nation. Would they greet the news with such enthusiastic zeal?

“Ethnomasochism,” writes Buchanan, “the taking of pleasure in the dispossession of one’s own ethnic group, is a disease of the heart that never afflicted the America of Andrew Jackson, Theodore Roosevelt, or Dwight Eisenhower.”

Buchanan punctures a hallowed sacred cow of liberals and conservatives alike: the belief in universal equality.


He exposes the futility in the various attempts to equalize intelligence and close the “racial gap” in IQ. In fact, one could argue that.....................................................................................

Whooptydamndoo. What does bachman know about the America of Jackson, (slaves, non voting rights of woman and blacks )Roosevelt (segregation, non voting rights for women and blacks ) Eisenhower ( segregation, lynchings, non voting rights for blacks )Her smug remark... "is a disease of the heart that never afflicted the America of Andrew Jackson, Theodore Roosevelt, or Dwight Eisenhower" exposes her as a rhetorical blowhard. Pun intended

"Mormons are more American than all of Christian America. They made up their bullshit RIGHT HERE."
-bustin J-

Good stuff, BustinJ, you old Atheist, you.

Best of luck to you and your bride.
In my mind, you'll always be a, #1 prime, member of the Cluster Fuck Nation.

Yours in Joyous Argument,
P2C

No Jam Man, the Polish National Credit Union. Pollacks,are big in these parts,sorry my Polish friends ;o). They still have their First Communion money. I feel bad cuz they scrimp and save and don't get shit for interest. Fuck the multi-national banks! Why would anyone deal with them?

JHK: I was/am watching the Republicans debate and they have the answer: drill, and mine everywhere because there is a ton of oil,bring back faith to America( Jesus only), build more nuclear power, cut all funding departments from the Federal Government except the military budget, no cuts to the police state, because Iran will attack us if we cut. OH That George Orwell!
Ron Paul was great asking how stupid Iran cannot attack us, we need to cut the defense budget,and of course all Socialist programs and tree hugging depts will be removed. So Happy Days are here again, only if the Republicans get elected.. May Zeus bless ya'all. So soon energy problem will bne solved and you will need a new idea to write about.

RT wrote: "They still have their First Communion money" Absolutely love it...

Black power salute, I saw it live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocu-llaGEnY&feature=related

Who can forget Bob Beamon and his high jump? Man could those bros. run. You would think a Detroit K9 unit was on their ass! I'm only kidding. ;o)

The “Beamonesque” long jump , sorry. I was confused with the Fosbury flop, same year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id4W6VA0uLc

"Tell us *general*, is it *party time*?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBpyichRWo0

I was into "Men at Work" What is a vega-mite sandwich? How does it taste? I can get it on line and have always been curious.

17th, 6:30pm... (working)

Anti Soak writes:

" He exposes the futility in the various attempts to equalize intelligence and close the “racial gap” in IQ. "

Speaking of unequal intelligence, are you trying to fill the moribund shoes of Vlad Krantz?

Let's just call a spade a spade and tell it like it is Anti Soak: Leave the race-baiting to one far more intelligent, entertaining, and erudite that yourself.

Deal?

Got a "Hold for Review" comment for my response to you, explaining Vegamite, among other things. Think I'm outta here too. See ya C'fners!

Something tells me we've met before.

Occupy Wall Street has very specific, actionable, American goals.

CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT.

USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS

CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION

CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE.

CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION

CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.

CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED.

ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS.

Know nobody can whine "but what do they want"? Why aren't they directing themselves toward the current government, instead of Wall Street.

It's not either/or. OWS is doing both.

GOOD LUCK IN GETTING STRANGERS TO FOLLOW YR ORDERS!
GAWD YOU MUST BE STOOPID.


Tucsonspur said:
It all presages and at the same time continues the ongoing "Suicide of a Superpower", Pat Buchanan's incisive new book.
******************************************************************

Thanks for the information about Buchanan's book. I liked "A Republic, Not An Empire" as well. The title of his recent book says it all. Between the untrue politically correct slogans of the left and the damage they've caused and the unchecked, venal capitalism of the right, sane people of moderate impulses are becoming as rare as the Spotted Owl.

The left believes in anti-meritocracies in schools and businesses. That's why good students don't get challenged and the weakies with poor decorum get patted on the head and told that they, too, can be a nuclear physicist. The result is that our edge in research and development has gone down the proverbial toilet.

The right, while yelling "class warfare", hope that the American people don't realize that there is ALREADY A CLASS WARFARE AGAINST THE MIDDLE CLASS BY THE UPPER CLASS. It's the corporate boardrooms and shareholders of multinationals who are scouring the world to obtain "shareholder value" by seeing which races are willing to accept the most toxic working and living conditions.

We ARE committing national suicide and it's unstoppable because decent politicians are absent from both sides of the aisle. Wall Street has taken over politics so thoroughly that it effectively IS the government and they damned well know it because they're out their buying protection by soaking elections in PAC money.

E.


I saw Hannity's interview of Buchanan. I changed my mind ... Buchanan is an ALLY of the superrich, not their enemy. He had the gall to say that half of America doesn't pay income tax and the rich are "paying for that half".

He's out of his fucking mind. The reason half of America pays no income tax is because they either had their job given to Asians or Eastern Europeans or they are in a profession, like computer programming, where wages are in a downward spiral.

The ONLY part of the interview where I agreed with Buchanan was when he talked about balkanization and the troubles it leads to and also the beginning of the end of ethics and morals in America in the feel-good 1960s.

Buchanan talks out of both sides of his mouth.


E.

"I saw Hannity's interview of Buchanan."

I think I barely missed that. I tuned into FOX oldz tonite, just to see if I could take more than 10 minutes without leaving in disgust. I left before the next commercial break (last ~8 minutes of Hannity) - how on earth can people watch that tripe? They were talking about some *no-name* black reverend (demotard, no less), who was all uppity and easily flamed for his dialog/actions. And what's with all the MSM's now going after drunks? Don't they know their elite/corporate lobbyists are nothing but the multiple martini crowd?

I still don't get how Pat had a seat in The McLaughlin Group, as long as he did (I guess John needed a righty). The guy's so bought-and-paid-for, it's pathetic. Whatever happened to Monica? Oh, yeah - she's now a talking head on Fox (nice to look at, ala Bachmann/Palin, but just as empty-headed, IMHO).

Almost caught up w/ poasts (Myrtle ban? I thought that was fixed).

"The Internet."

"Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala!"

"It is unreality that he cannot bear."

"Time's cyclical descent into insanity is well documented"

"We have only tomorrow, and the tomorrows after that."

Wholly SH!T!!! Lulz, you have *got* to get me some of whatever it is, that you're taking!!!

"I had my sign; "Occupy Democracy not Corporatism". Had a guy ask "WTF, what does that mean?" Really, which one word do you understand that's ((hint) not) monosyllabic? Think, to inhabit or to possess. Corporatism as in the 21st Century version not the 19th Century version, big diff. Still don't get it? Boy, we're got a major climb up the ol' learning curve in this country."

LOL, that is so Riddle of the Sphinx! I love it - and I think I might just know you (visiting Mom, while she does the winter retreat/leaves the house guarded by militia?)...

"I prefer to see them in a different way. I think it is more true that these individuals suffer from a social disease, a cultural paradigm addiction, or that they are simply acting childish with great cost to others."

They are fucking sociopaths that simply haven't resorted to rape/murder yet, because they haven't needed to. They are the sludge that percolates to the top, much like the sludge that must be scraped from molten iron...

Embracing them in any way, whatsoever, simply gives them further support and justification for their actions (which parasitically feedback, through all other systems - government/economic/societal/etc)... They must be "scraped off," sooner, rather than later.

"A couple of weeks ago Q said the protest movement would fizzle out before the World Series."

Q-Tip's not reel gud w/ predictions. Note that mine (11.5K dow - how's that rubbin' you, Q?), still remains the ceiling that it just can't seem to bust through.

Wait until Jan, 2012, for my next prediction (hottest year on record - predicted Nov, 2010). Then Jan, 2013 (hottest year on record). Then, Jan, 2014-2019 (all vying for the record - solar max). Tin foil hat time, for sure!!!

Other predictions? Atmospheric CO2 concentration will continue to be exponential in growth, rather than linear (prolly due to all those volcanoes - lulz!!!).

Buchanan is an ALLY of the superrich, not their enemy. He had the gall to say that half of America doesn't pay income tax and the rich are "paying for that half". -E.

Of course. These professional bloviators are well-paid whores, telling their clients exactly what they're paid to say (as well as having absolutely NO connection with the filth that work for a living.)

This is what happens when one encloses oneself in the bubble of the Washingtoon cracktail/dimmer party circuit.

Someone like Chris Hedges is a horse of an entirely different color. No matter how much one can disagree with his religious or political "affiliations", when he places his fingers on the pulse of the zeitgeist, he's not afraid to tell it like it is in a coherent and thoughtful manner. (I guess being an under-fire correspondent in war zones can do that to some.)

Buchanan is just another puffed-up crank who has told himself so many lies that he now believes them. (Hey, folks still pay for his bullshit so how could he possibly be wrong? Isn't money the touchstone of truth and enlightenment?)

Well I guess the true "protest movement" should have chosen "occupy corrupted socio-political systems" or just say no "perverted financial markets, exchanges and central banks."

The list of current activities that have been subverted into "local, national, even global business" that is antithetical to the American way is beyond any slogan.

The sleazy self-dealing, unethical and out and out illegal activities that have brought us to this point in history are by design both confusing and complex.

The "new American invasion" is complete. And most of you think free markets, regulated commodities and stock exchange exist. Most of you think your central bank (the Federal Reserve) works to promote a safe and sound banking system for the US. It doesn't.

Most of you that congressmen and senators are all equal in power through the concept of one vote, one seat. But they are not. Most legislators are powerless in most of the areas of legislation pertaining to business. However, please vote for them based on whether they like prenatal babies. (sarcasm intended)

[b]Why is it so important that protesters have pertinent, pithy slogans when the rest of society is so hopelessly fucked up?[/b] Inquiring minds want to know

Metuselah, I cannot disagree with your observations up to the point of what you ”see” : “zero chance for them to ever be reformed. They need to be permanently removed from society.” If you put yourself in their shoes, you may long to receive some degree of compassion that “sees” your redemption as something other than hopeless. Maybe we need to bring back the opportunity to be redeemed in penitenturies that replaces the punishment of our prisons. Forgiving and obedience to our loving hearts holds the answers to our questions and the solutions to our problems.

Answering cruelty with greater cruelty has not been affective. As uncommon as it is to try to make one’s enemy a friend, it has been done, it is not impossible, and is the best method for conquering one’s enemies. It is the most practical thing and serves the common good of all concerned.

Kindness is so beautiful. Why reserve it only for those whom you would never think to be unkind to?

"Kindness is so beautiful. Why reserve it only for those whom you would never think to be unkind to?" - ront

Because kindess can easily be mistaken for weakness, especially by sociopaths who are hardwired to find and exploit perceived weakness.

I have no control over what others think about me. Think away! I prefer to exercise real strength perceived as weakness by others, than pretend strength which is nothing other than weakness perceived or not.

At some point we will all have to become fed up with playing with our illusions and face ourselves and see the false from the true. Our true freedom is the choice between slavery to our fears and desires or slavery to our highest principles no matter how unconventional and inconvenient they may be. Is there any other freedom that lasts?

I have no idea what you are writing. Can anyone translate?

"[b]Why is it so important that protesters have pertinent, pithy slogans when the rest of society is so hopelessly fucked up?[/b] Inquiring minds want to know" -bud iz wiser-

Bud, you're wiser than this. LOL!

Because - if a concept cannot be reduced to some sort of slogan - the average American voter/consumer/whatever, will be unable to remember it long enough to care to act upon it.

You like to talk about energy, OK. Well - there's a critical mass of people in this country who believe in the slogan "Renewable Energy Will Not Work."

I don't know the percentages - but it's a high enough number to effect discourse, even on a website like this.

And it's certainly a high enough percentage to affect water cooler conversations, and internet conversations, and political polling.

And political polling impacts policy.

And policy is quite f*cked up - as regards energy, and many other things.

====================
I believe the corporate RW is much better at creating slogans.
Taxes are too high.
No tax increases.
No tax increases on "job creators."

We need a strong "national defense."
Military spending must never be cut.
Support the troops.

I could go on -
Which is one of my slogans. hah!

Confusionism, Methuselah, and Ront -

Methuselah sets records in the hate and revenge department. Nothing will ever be enough to repay the suffering of the Jewish people, in Met's mind. When the last of the "blue-eyed devils" (as he likes to call us, from time to time) was dead by his hands - then he would want to start digging us up and spitting on us.

And confusionism, at least in these last couple of posts - you are siding with Met and generic hate and against Ront and forgiveness.

"Because kindess can easily be mistaken for weakness, especially by sociopaths who are hardwired to find and exploit perceived weakness."
-confu, to ront-

I took Ront's words to be applicable most at the individual level - "to change the world you must first change yourself" sort of thing. But I'd like to let him explain and elaborate on them.

And your words, Confu, apply more at the level of national and internal politics and policy.

But, here's the thing -
The US has military strength that bests the rest of the world by a factor of two, or more.

Yet, we have zero National forgiveness
and our policies are based on a mixture of -

- American Style Corporate/Capitalist Greed -
- and Cold War Russian/Islamic Fear -

"And your words, Confu, apply more at the level of national and INTERNATIONAL politics and policy."
-p2c, correcting mistake-

-------------
Speaking of mistakes - how is it possible that Myrtle had a post blocked last night concerning what was likely an interesting explanation of a "Vegamatic." sp?

And yet 8M is back with us in all of his overposting, multiple posting, ilovephilosophy, more or less illogical GLORY??????

====================
8M - you have a couple of good ideas.
But the way you present them (over and over and over and over) mostly serves to piss people off, and make you look crazy.

LURK NO MORE! well put prog (re take on kindness/weakness from confusion & ront) i can see both sides of the issue, but personally tend to slightly tip to con s point of view if only bc of life experience (bullied as a kid) about our national policy, doesn t it seem to be the policy of TPTB everywhere to divide the rest of us with percieved differences- i.e. in race, religion, class etc, in order to distract from the rape & pillage of our people and planet?! i read "scapegoat- the redneck manifesto" which put some things in perspective...to all the scared little racists out there: there is only one kind of DNA- life is life; we are all related to trees and crickets so get over yourselves!

not sure what exactly it s made from, but vegemite is very similar to miso (fermented soybean paste, ftwdk) which is DEFINITELY an acquired taste!

Thanks, Prog, for the explanation. Understand that I am not trying to belittle anyone's philosophical beliefs, I was just trying to decipher ront's true/false generalities. Besides, there is a difference between hate and anger, causality not withstanding.

Pats promoting his new book..
I heard him on Coast2coast 2 nites ago....

Pat was an early opponent of Globalization.
He still is opposed to it.

Methuselah sets records in the hate and revenge department.
==

My "revenge" is to show you disgusting fascist swines for what you are. The rest will take care of itself.

what you dont like Miso???
vegemite..does it have alot of salt?

If you put yourself in their shoes, you may long to receive some degree of compassion that “sees” your redemption as something other than hopeless.
==

I'm not in their shoes. I never was and I never will be in their shoes. And that's the difference between me and them. The difference between a human being and swine.

Glad you stopped lurking, CF, that's a good comment.

=====================
On other notes, to the thread at large - there is a new internet movement called "We are the 53%" which is in protest to "We are the 99%" battle cry of the OWSERS. (which is a nice slogan, budiz)

So, naturally, this has spawned a new resistance website mocking the group "We are the 53%."

And this website is:
http://actuallyyourethe47percent.tumblr.com/

Funny stuff! But it does make me ask AGAIN, where is the web presence of the (supposed) 10's of thousands of OWSERS.

I'm not on facebook - is that where OWS is trying to make a large numerical stand?? Because they need to be out on the open internet, IMO.

===============
Others suggest a large portion of "The 99%" in the US of A - would actually BE IN the "TOP 5%" of the WORLDWIDE population - based on living standards, freedom from hunger, etc.

That's enough mathematics for now.
But these are interesting things to think about.

No problem, confu. I'll still like to hear what ront has on his mind - I'm not presuming to speak for him.
Personally, I've got a hard edge of "trust, but verify," in most of my personal and business relationships.

Now, as regards: "I am not trying to belittle anyone's philosophical beliefs..." -confusionism-

Some things need to be belittled, if they cannot be skewered and killed outright.

For example: "to show you disgusting fascist swines for what you are. The rest will take care of itself..." -methuselah-

No quarter and no forgiveness ever, eh Met?
Others have suggested that you are not Jewish NOR Israeli at all -

But merely a hate filled caricature.

Guess we'll never really know - not in this lifetime, anyway.

Metuselah, I cannot disagree with your observations up to the point of what you ”see” : “zero chance for them to ever be reformed.
==

I understand human nature and you don't. There will no fundamental reform until the system collapses. That's why I'm certain it will collapse. And history has proven me correct, time and time again.

There will ^be no fundamental reform

No quarter and no forgiveness ever, eh Met?
==

Forgiveness for what? For being a swine? You are what you are. As I said before, nature will take care of you, it always does.

actually, i was raised a hippie, so i do like miso- just know some won t...and i didn t think the vegemite was too salty- at least not overpowering

Blocked post
Stupid software


"Forgiveness for what? For being a swine?"
-met-

What have you got against pigs, anyway?


Seriously, swine are both useful and delicious - which makes the term lack punch as an insult directed toward an American of European (or African, non-Muslim) descent.

It's like calling me a fried chicken.
Or a watermelon.

And I've never understood that dietary prohibition against properly fed and well-cooked pork.

Also, what's wrong with catfish, and shrimp, and rare steak - while we are on the subject of cultural differences and the religious basis of insult.

================
I'm just messing with you, Met.
Some have suggested that you and Vl*d are the same CFN poster.
Would you care to address that?

It's interesting that V*ad has never denied it.

http://gift4shopping.com/animal-husbandry/positive-things-about-pigs/5/

Is THIS harmless little website what got me blocked????????

Sorry, Vlad -
In my paranoid search for "post-banning" rationales - I thought perhaps your name had been put on the filter list.

Thus the Vl*d's. Again, apologies.

And it's just weird software.
And an uncaring IP guy - who never looks at things that are "held for review."

And never allows them to be posted.
EVER!

anyone "here" know anything about a solar research station somewhere in the southwestern desert (maybe az or nm)? i saw a doc on pbs a few years ago about it: mirrored troughs follow the sun which heats a closed system of oil in order to boil water to drive a turbine...i tried to google it w/out success in order to refresh my memory about the numbers- acreage, output, etc i do remember they said it was the only one like it, at least at the time...

Would you care to address that?
==

Why? I'm having too much with them idiots.

GUFFAW!! fried chicken! watermelon?! ok, you win...but seriously, aren t the dietary prohibitions about health concerns (trichinosis, lack of refrigeration until very recently, and the like)? i can t think of any other reason not to enjoy hot buttered bacon!

too much ^fun with them

thanks for the link it isn t the station i was thinking of but interesting nonetheless...

Nobody gives a sh** about Ron Paul, because he is too old. Whatever his good points may be, Americans are so superficial all they care about is appearances - a younger man will win, even if he is just another idiot, like Perry, or Romney. DUH!

E, it's good that you didn't totally change your mind. I think that we understand the right, rich,("racist"?) side of Buchanan. But it's good that you agree on the balkanization, morals/ethics issues, extremely important ones.

I left out cultural.

Don't people realize that politics is irrelevant as long as the system stays the same? It doesn't make a difference if you get screwed from the Left or from the Right - you still get screwed. It's like having sex with someone who has a bag over their head: just pretend your partner is beautiful or handsome because the orgasm is what matters.

When the system is changed, politics could matter. Amend the constitution to institute term limits and mandatory balancing of the budget, limit total campaign contributions, and prohibit lobbyists. Then we may begin to consider that our government works.

But you know as well as I that this isn't going to happen. Once neural pathways are developed, it's very difficult to change them. People like the security of the same and fear the new.

Peel back the layers of the onion far enough, and you find the reality is that people haven't been taught critical thinking skills. If any conspiracy theorists are on this blog - and there are - consider that this is the real conspiracy.

Right on Bean, too many of the wrong people have the critical thinking skills. Think you out of a dollar anyday.

It looks like iI have got some ‘splainin’ to do. I am glad what I wrote struck a chord even if it’s notes may have been a bit sour.

First, the concepts I am offering are based upon spiritual values which I believe have the potential to deliver lasting solutions to problems, both individually and collectively. The opposing values put forth are conventional worldly values. It is perfectly natural that you would not appreciate the value of my message, just as I no longer abide by the value of the worldly concepts you espouse. I like bringing these principles into open conversations that seek to answer questions and solve problems, not because I think they will find a hardy welcome (on the contrary) but that I think they prove useful as a reminder for those that have heard and still hear the truth even if it is very faint below their “worldly beliefs.”

By the way, I do not disapprove doing what needs to be done to stop people who do harm to others. How one goes about stopping them and what justice is metted out depends on the particular circumstances. For instance, let’s establish state-run banks that serve the People and drive the banksters out of business.

Ultimately what one believes matters little unless one lives up to these principles. Arguing for them and fighting for them are quite a bit easier than the living up to part. It helps to be reminded about them because it is easy in this world to have these spiritual notions slip away unnoticed.

Now, to offer something that could help to relate my generalities that I offered previously. Let’s say a long time, intimate friend or close family connection does some self-centered action, knowingly or unknowingly, that causes you harm. Are you apt to extend them more, the same or less tolerance, understanding, empathy, kindness, compassion, generosity of spirit, or forgiveness than you would to a stranger? The reason for the question is that the spiritual reality, whether one believes it is exists or not, is that all are One, like a family is one. Living in accord with reality is always better in the long run.

I think scientific observation would bear out that societies that treat one and other more as kin are happier and enjoy greater prosperity and with greater equality.

Any clearer?

Ouch. I was listening to KFOG this morning at 7:15 and heard Cain singing John Lennon's "Imagine." He Sung "Imagine there's no pizza...."

The whole thing was about pizza.

Don't people realize that politics is irrelevant as long as the system stays the same?
==

People are starting to.

The system was set up to serve the moneyed elite. And the moneyed elite only care about the moneyed elite. That is true today, and it was true the day the politicians signed the American Imperialist Treaty/Constitution.

Ront,

I understood your position already prior. We are one family, I absolutely agree with that.

But we have aliens for company. They are fascist lizards who have callous diseased souls bent on thievery, empire, and domination over others. There's nothing you can do to change them. But you can defeat their system by rejecting it and refusing to participate in it.

i respectfully beg to differ: robert sapolsky studied a troop of baboons starting in 1978 in which the biggest & most aggressive (alpha males as well as females if i remember correctly) were killed off, i think by some disease...those that were left weren t mean or aggressive, and when more baboons started to drift in to try to join up they would act like ordinary, asshole baboons- until the original troop would gang up and show the new one that no, we are nice around here...resulting in a bunch of "civilized" baboons it sure seems to me that while it might be difficult we 99% need to make the asshole baboons to be nice

sorry Q...

"Amend the constitution to institute term limits and mandatory balancing of the budget, limit total campaign contributions, and prohibit lobbyists."
-btb-

Good ideas, Bill. Add ending the two-party system to this list, too.

================
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php

Want to know why the US is all fouled up.
Look at who's buying the votes in Congress.

National Chamber of Commerce is from Satan, imho.
They are number 1 in lobbying money.

Heck of a nice post, Bill. I just glanced back and saw this part:

"...people haven't been taught critical thinking skills. If any conspiracy theorists are on this blog - and there are - consider that this is the real conspiracy." -btb-

From what I've seen, public K-12 education went into Annual Testing Mania when BushII and a bipartisan coalition passed that NCLB law. And that killed off most useful parts of public school except for the "drill and kill" parts.

But critical thinking went by the wayside in the US - a long time before NCLB was passed.

What do you have in mind for bringing critical thinking back, Bill?

I don't know, some of his gospel might move you.
I'd like to see how he would do on "Riot in cell block No.9".

I've got to ask any CFN'ers out there who are either awake or perhaps still waiting in line for their iphone 5/4s a question. What is with this "Movable Type" software? I spent about twenty minutes or so during lunch today typing a reply (not because I was going to say anything particulary profound, but because I had to correct a ton of gammatical errors and typos). I went to enter a reference notation to something I plagerized, hit the "tab" key to move the text over a little bit and bam, or maybe it was zap, the entire text vanished into cybervoid. I guess I should have expected the program to live up to it name "movable type" but to me it was just a WTF moment. Boy, do I dislike these electromatic devices. So the question is; Is the "Live Journal" any better or should I revert back to using cuneiform?
Please advise...

Ah, Procon, there's the rub. We would need to motivate those in charge of public education curricula to make critical thinking classes mandatory for much of the K-12 years. But that's not going to happen because it's the states that control school curricula, I believe, and now we're talking about politics again. A Catch-22 situation.

Furthermore, we'd have to overhaul the whole public education concept, which basically teaches everyone as if they had equal abilities and desires to learn, when in fact students are NOT equal (for many reasons). People also have different methodalities in how they process new information. In today's schools, disruptive children, children with learning disabilities and just plain dummies are lumped together in classrooms with bright, motivated and focused students. Nobody wins.

In America, everyone has the right to get an education, but those that don't want to shouldn't be forced to. I believe the concept of teaching to the lowest denominator is a well-intentioned liberal concept that doesn't work. But to change the educational system to a more logical structure is another political matter and therefore nothing will be changed.

My own solution is to eliminate public education in its entirety and have parents take responsibility for their children's education. If it isn't feasible for a parent to stay home to teach, then a group of parents could get together and pay someone to teach. This would eliminate the educational bureaucracy, lower local taxes and not force those that don't have children to pay for others' education. Of course, society would never change the system.

Hope I'm not intruding, but here's the answer to bringing back critical thinking, an answer that, let's put it this way, SHOULD have always been there;

Well disciplined, well taught math classes, and on higher levels, logic/philosphy.

BB, everyone was lumped together back in the day, many decades ago also. In public school I remember disruptive students, bright students, slow students, eager students, apathetic students,etc. The system was its own natural sieve.

The curricula and standards were set and you met them or you didn't. Some went on to become doctors or scientists, some butchers or plumbers.
In my mind also, it's the liberal intrusion and excessive politics that ruined the system.

There is no way at this time that the system can be decorticated down to the "rrr".

I like your point about couples with no children.

Riddle of the Sphinx.
Yea, you're right, my sign was a bit obscure. That was why the flip side of the sign simply said "Corporate Lobbying is Bribery". I thought that was pretty direct. Even got a few thumbs up on that one! My son's sign said "We the People are not a Mob" in response to Eric "buy me" Cantor's idiotic statement the week before. Well, at least we are not a mob, not yet...

Bottom line is our Democracy has been bought and paid for, for quite some time. Corporations and special interests influence the narcissist politicians and all prefer it this way.
Sure you can vote but does it really change anything? Not really. Reminds me of the definition of insanity; doing the same thing and expecting a different result. So seeing people out there trying to find a collective voice is a good thing. Maybe when the voice is loud enough someone will take notice, and better yet, take action. But I don't expect the current PTB to do so. There's a real danger this will go in the opposite direction. In the not too distant past fascism and corporatism have also gotten along quite well together. Given our state of perpetual war, I'd say they still do.

But it seems this is a place we've been at before. I just started reading J. Meacham's book on President Andrew Jackson. In the forth chapter it states that Jackson thought the country was experiencing a "Crisis of Corruption". Corruption so corrosive that he was convinced it threatened the nation. A hundred years ago we had Teddy Roosevelt (a Progressive-Republican, can you imagine?) taking on the "trusts" which were again, big business. So here we are and it's deja-vu all over again. The players are pretty much the same; big business, special interests and a Central Bank. But today our situation is further complicated by resource depletion across the board, population overshoot and obscene-complicit politicians only interested in re-election or that next position as an industry lobbyist.

Best we can do now is use our time to prepare wisely. Knowing full well that you can never prepare completely.
Soon enough the rubber band ball of financial B.S. is all going to unwind. So enjoy your front row seat on the edge of history.

Heard something I thought seemed appropriate, went something like this;
Are you listening to what I'm trying to tell you? "There are no answers, only choices"
C.B.L.
Lets hope we can all make the correct choices given our own circumstance.

Until then try not to go too Apeshit.

And as for visiting mom and the ol' militia, that's a journey I know I have to make some time, soon enough, but hopefully not yet...

Till next week remember:
"The suvivalist is the ultimate optimist, he prepares and expects to prevail"

Stay liquid...stay frosty...


Yeah, that's the impression I got ... that Buchanan
was "bought and paid for". I really detest the
Washington Beltway "Millionaire Punditocracy"
of which Buchanan is clearly an insider.

The guy should have faded to black after he
wrote "A Republic and Not An Empire" because
he has stuck around just long enough to reveal
that he's yet another fraudulent Constitutionalist.

Is there a Republican left who even read Jefferson's
missives about counterbalancing monied interests?
Apparently not.


C. said:
Because kindess can easily be mistaken for weakness, especially by sociopaths who are hardwired to find and exploit perceived weakness.
*****************************************************************

That's why we have to get our kids out from behind Gameboys, Playstations, Xboxes, TV sets, and computer terminals so that they develop mature social personae complete with "bullshit detectors".

Just because kindness can be mistaken for weakness does not mean we should practice UNKINDNESS. Even Confucius wouldn't say anything that unsound. One care be WARY and still be KIND.

E.


If Pat is still an anti-globalist then he is a hypocrite because the biggest beneficiaries of the concentration of wealth in the U.S. are the CEOs of multinational corporations who shop around to see who will debase their life the most to benefit shareholders. Also, CEOs *never* offshore their own jobs. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of us.

Buchanan hopes that Hannity's dopey audiences don't realize that his "logic" contradicts itself. He's just another Washington Beltway career pundit. I hate the subtle SNEER always present on Buchanan's face, too.


E.


Yes, I still agree with Buchanan's stance on American moral relativism and its development in the '60s as well as his stance on balkanization. I live in Cal. and anyone who lives here feels like they're living in Beijing at some times and Mexico City at other times. It sucks and there's no REAL diversity ... just isolated cultural enclaves that don't like each other.

As for Buchanan's stance on moral relativism, it is precisely HERE that I remain a staunch conservative. I think that very relativism has led to tattoos, piercings, and the general vulgarity of Gen-Y and Gen-X. We no longer have good/bad polarities like "modesty good, in-your-face bad" or "innocence good, sluttiness bad".

When I was in high school the "bad girls" were isolated and then kicked out of school. Now, they're almost celebs even though their being oozes of narcissism, premature sexual activity, and a kind of perverse pride in being turbo sluts. I'm one of those "dinosaurs" who can't get turned on by a woman if every "edge" is hard. If there's no adorableness, there's no sensuality to me. I find Gen-Y girls to be, not only execreble, but also the LEAST ATTRACTIVE generation of girls perhaps in all of American history. They're certainly the FATTEST ever.

E.

"Is there any other freedom that lasts?"

What makes you think that freedom lasts. Was there somebody humming the "Battle Hymn of The Republic" while you typed that post?

while it might be difficult we 99% need to make the asshole baboons to be nice
==

Yes, by avoiding these baboons like the plague.

This is where PC completely "misunderstands" my position concerning "revenge". And I'm pretty sure it's deliberate. Anyway, my position is very simple. It's basically the position that Jesus took against the brutal occupation of his people and his country by the Romans. The maxim “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's”, sums it all up. It means, don't use Roman coin; don't frequent Roman towns; avoid anything to do with Rome; educate others to do the same.

Without people participating in their system, they and their system will die off.

with all due respect, jesus & his followers have had 2000 years; while i agree in principle w/ his reported teachings, having the moral high ground hasn t stopped caesars from killing (yes, killing: starving us out, working us to death, & nownow taking basic medicine away- google neem oil- on top of empire building wars...was it p2c who said, 'i could go on'?!) to sum up my point, i think we the people (of earth) owe it to ourselves, our children, & our planet- not necessarily in that order of priority!- to take "back" control of the decision making processes concerning everything from governance to energy use...and btw, agreed that education is a large part of any solution, whether self- or otherwise...

with all due respect, jesus & his followers have had 2000 years
==

No, Jesus and his followers were murdered by the Romans. What you had for the next 2,000 years is the Roman Imperialist Church and outrageous lies and misrepresentations by Roman agents and redactors such as Paulus of Tarsus usurping the story of Jesus.

"So here we are and it's deja-vu all over again. The players are pretty much the same; big business, special interests and a Central Bank. But today our situation is further complicated by resource depletion across the board, population overshoot and obscene-complicit politicians only interested in re-election or that next position as an industry lobbyist." -LL

Yes, and with Big Ag and Big Energy in the mix and foolin' with Mother Nature, it may be for All The Marbles.

"Best we can do now is use our time to prepare wisely. Knowing full well that you can never prepare completely.
Soon enough the rubber band ball of financial B.S. is all going to unwind. So enjoy your front row seat on the edge of history." -LL

It's certainly going to be "interesting", and I'm seeing a struggle for the very existence of humankind; notwithstanding the serious contention for its' very soul. (Seems all of a piece at this juncture, doesn't it?)

Fine post, Lenny; thanks for putting it out there and joining in the "fray" (citizens publicly speaking out).

"Hope I'm not intruding..." -tucsonspur-

No, no intrusion at all. The best dialog is additive in nature, anyway. I picture this thread as a roundtable discussion - when it's at its best.

"Well disciplined, well taught math classes, and on higher levels, logic/philosphy."
-tucsonspur, on teaching critical thinking-

Logic/philosophy - absolutely! Although I've got to say that the philosophy I had in college was almost totally oriented to study of prior/competing philosophical systems of thought...Lots of theory and no application, in other words.

What students of philosophy really need is an opportunity to build their OWN philosophical system - suited to life (somehow??) in today's world, yet still capable of searching and finding Truth.

As far as math goes - I don't know about that. I've known too many people who could do math backwards and forwards at extremely high levels - - yet who lived their lives accumulating "things" without ever considering (that I can see) any deeper meaning to life.

Or, as you said, TucsonS, "Too many of the wrong people have the critical thinking skills."

===================
BTW, tucson - you floated up some ideas about
"...balkanization, morals/ethics issues, extremely important ones....cultural..."

These terms are often used, without elaboration or definition, to attract and hold "conservative" voters in the Republican/conservative fold.

For example -
I'm all in favor of iron clad business ethics.
I think my sexual ethics are my own business.

Far to many persons/voters conflate the two, and CONSISTENTLY vote for the wrong sorts of liars.

E, I must tell you that I appreciate your postings from the gulag of eh-dumb-a-ka-shun.

The perspective of the "young folks" by those that have to try and fill their empty little heads is invaluable. It's a glimpse of the future that's often [and mysteriously] unexamined.

I learned a lot in grammar school (except for grammar), but then again, I always enjoyed reading. No teevee in the house until I was eight, and then it was strictly regulated; that probably made a difference. The rest of my educational experience was my own fault; the teachers were dedicated professionals (for the most part), so no bitch there.

"This is where PC completely "misunderstands" my position concerning "revenge". And I'm pretty sure it's deliberate." -met-

It's not deliberate, met. I'm just reacting to what comes across as your completely unforgiving nature.

And I'm reacting to the way you seem to hold me and mine, personally, responsible for the policies of the Vatican, the Nazis, and the American Style Corporate Fascists.

====================
And again - for the CFN newcomers, Met and Mika are the same poster. There's no question about that.

Are Methuselah, Mika, and Vald all products of the same individual poster?

There are similarities.

" Amend the constitution to institute term limits and mandatory balancing of the budget, limit total campaign contributions, and prohibit lobbyists."

And who do you think is going to "amend the constitution"? The same politicians you declare indistinguishable from one another? And yet you assert that voters who sift for candidates who support campaign finance reform from those who don't - or seek to distinguish politicians from one another in general - are declared to be lacking in critical thinking skills. Indeed, these non- critical thinking voters have not come to realize that "politics is irrelevant" according to Bill.

Someone peeled the onion back alright,and is stumbling clumsy in a sea of cloudy tears. Critical thinking, my ass.

Libya's son of a sheepherder has either been kilt or captured.
NPR characterizes him as "insane" and "brutal" (et-fucking-cetera), and expats are calling in to say they hope he has been kilt. That's the "desired" outcome and I scent rotting corpses on the breeze with signs 'round their necks. The signs say: Dead men tell no tales. (Shades of Saddam.)

So, lets look into our Rumsfeldian book of Known Unknowns of Iraqi Nationbuilding and see just how messy this bit of frrrreeeeedom is gonna get, shall we?

Will somebody please remove the handily donated weapons from the fractious new owners of the place before they go APESHIT? (Jezis, this one's right out of the divide-and-conquer playbook.)

Who benefits?

(Oh, Libyan teevee says he was kilt in Sirte "in a hole" with "3 golden pistols and a Samsonite suitcase". Sound familiar?)

Ps. Hurrah!! Freedom may soon be coming to YOUR town!

And I'm reacting to the way you seem to hold me and mine, personally, responsible for the policies of the Vatican, the Nazis, and the American Style Corporate Fascists.
==

You certainly are personally responsible! Earlier in the year, you very much identified with their malfeasance so long as you perceived that you and yours were drawing benefits from it. So yes, I do hold you personally responsible. Unlike some others, you can't claim ignorance to these crimes. You knew exactly where things are at, and you did not voice any opposition to it. Quite the opposite, you were all for it. So long as you and yours were benefiting from the misery and suffering of others, that was all that mattered to you. That's why I called you and yours fascist scum. You are just as much of a lowlife as those that are perpetrating these crimes IN YOUR NAME. You are all conspirators in this.

Hey, Met, I don’t ascribe to the lizard mentality but I agree with: “There's nothing you can do to change them. But you can defeat their system by rejecting it and refusing to participate in it.”

How can one gain the ability to do this rejecting and refusing? I would say it requires working on one’s self, becoming aware of the addictions and delusions the culture has indoctinated into us. Then a process of getting unhooked and disentangled. Xhalor, if you succeed at this, that freedom can not only last but be fulfilling and sweet.

A collective awakening and the creativity it inspires will have an effect on the world. Examples: Would you or could you buy a car without seatbelts? Processed “food” companies are “choosing” to replace trans fats and corn syrup in their products. These are outward changes taking place by appealing to what the “bottom-liners” care about. One needs to meet people where they are to affect change. Does it require enmity or hatred? No. All natural growth is gradual. The rest is cancer.

Is this a private fight, or can anybody join in?

Are you attempting to convert P2C into a "joo-hater"? If you feel you are representative of "da real joos" viewpoint, you may succeed.

(Just sayin', you know my views on imperialistic mass murder and skullduggery of ANY brand...)

"Earlier in the year, you very much identified with their malfeasance so long as you perceived that you and yours were drawing benefits from it."
-metuselah-

I have no idea what you're talking about, Met.
Please elaborate.

"Is this a private fight, or can anybody join in?"
-O3-

I think I'd want you on my side in just about any fight, ozone.

Except when it came to religion of The Sky Gods.
Then I'd want to run like hell (Hell?) the other direction. hah!

Do you ever read ArchDruid, o3?
He did one last week on "thaumaturgy" (approximately defined as mass societal brainwashing) that was very good - and made me think of some of our "practical religion" squabbles.

Take a look and let me know what you think.

===============
Ront - GOOD STUFF!
"...outward changes taking place by appealing to what the “bottom-liners” care about...."

-ront, regarding seat belts, corn syrup, and trans fats-

I'm thinking incremental changes are the best we're going to get. Those are some pretty good examples.

I keep reading about the essential agreement of the TEA partiers and the OWSERS as regards the collusion of Washington and Wall Street in producing a system that only enriches the rich.

The TEA's and the OWS'ers are (somehow??) being kept separated in the public mind(s.)

If they could unite on some key points - things might happen that are even better than seat belts and "real" fats in foods. hah!

One needs to meet people where they are to affect change. Does it require enmity or hatred? No.
==

I agree.

All I'm doing is raising awareness of the truth, and also making people take personal responsibility for their willful ignorance and inaction in countering state propaganda and malfeasance.

I have no idea what you're talking about, Met.
Please elaborate.
==

What's there to elaborate?

"Earlier in the year, you very much identified with their malfeasance so long as you perceived that you and yours were drawing benefits from it."
-met-

I did no such thing.
"their malfeasance" whose???
"drawing benefits" how???

Either give me some specifics of what I said that leads you to these conclusions.
Or drop the subject.

No need to elaborate if all you are going to do is make sh*t up, met.

How can one gain the ability to do this rejecting and refusing?
==

Mass awareness, mass protest, mass strikes, withdrawing funds and participation from all gov mafia institutions and corporations.

Hey Jim one thing that has become clear since 2007 is that corporations, organizations, institutions and the like no longer need to keep the books balanced and the bills paid to stay in business and keep operating. All that is necessary, it seems, is POLITICAL WILL, backed up by the awesome power (and largesse) of the Government. The Chicago Tribune, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Postal Service, Amtrak, General Motors, Chrysler, UBS, AIG, Bank of America, (to name just a few), in previous times all toes up, dead, liquidated, with combined losses in the trillions ... but still they walk, doing business with all their previous arrogance, animated by funds from the US treasury, like Zombies in a George Romero film, consuming taxpayer dollars like the walking dead consume human flesh ...

To me it looks like this jury-rigged and stitched together economy can go on like this forever. What's going to stop it? Certainly not the Owsers!

--WSP7

Don't play stupid, PC. Everyone who's been here for a while knows what I'm talking about. You tactic of playing the "ignorant" nazi who didn't have a clue, is not going to wash. It didn't wash back then and it's not going to wash now.

You made it very clear that if others are injured and brutalized by your government to maintain your imperial thieving, that's just fine by you.

"You made it very clear that if others are injured and brutalized by your government to maintain your imperial thieving, that's just fine by you."
-met-

Sorry met - you must have me confused with some other screenname. I've never said anything like that - that could even be SPUN or TWISTED into that idea.
===================
Are you and Vlad the same poster?
Yes or no?

If they were the same person do you expect an honest answer?????

biggest beneficiaries of the concentration of wealth in the U.S. are the CEOs of multinational corporations who shop around to see who will debase their life the most to benefit shareholders. Also, CEOs *never* offshore their own jobs. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of us..
So you are saying he is for the Corporations/ Multi Nationals?
Or you just dislike him?

I'm confusing you with someone else. I've confronted you, not once but several times on this, and each and very time you dismissed me and laughed me off. You simply didn't care.

I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed.

I agree with your statement, up to the point where you state that the OWSers can't stop the swelling wave of rancid corporatocracy. Maybe not on their own, but all it takes is a small spark to start a raging fire.

P2C seems to be one of the most balanced and fair minded posters on this site. Why are you busting his balls?

But Hey, Metusaleh, we hear you.

You hate the United States!

You hate Americans!

I know, I know, we are all fascists and Nazis. I already learned that from a dude here who calls himself General Hancock.

You have made yourself very clear over a long period of time.

How many times, in how many different ways, do you have to tell us?

---WSP7

Lets hope you're right Confucious, lets hope you're right. we shall see.

--WSP7

"If they were the same person do you expect an honest answer?????"
-antiSoak, regarding Met, Mika, and Vlad-

Vlad has been asked by several posters if he is these other two - he's never denied it.

Metuselah admits to being Mika but won't deny being Vlad.

====================

I don't really care. "Vlad" is generally pretty consistent and tries to be somewhat honorable with what he considers to be Truth.

Mika/Met just makes stuff up like:
"I'm confusing you with someone else. I've confronted you, not once but several times on this"

"on this..." On what, Mika, on WHAT??

On your idea that the Vatican is responsible for WWI, WWII (both sides), the OSS, the CIA, the settlement of Israel, the defense of Israel, attacking Iraq, planning to attack Iran, etc -

I'll admit that that seems a little far-fetched, but it doesn't mean that you and I should not be able to converse politely on other topics.

When you, unpolitely, say that (non-Catholic) I and my children, grandchildren, and (as yet unborn) greatgrandchildren are responsible for allowing this, because we were born as native citizens of the United States and therefore support the CIA/Vatican..........?????

Jeeze, this is pointless.........

The Biblical Allegory of the Tower of Babel
becomes the Metaphorical Internet of Babble

Which is unfortunate.

but it doesn't mean that you and I should not be able to converse politely on other topics.
==

We're way past the point of being polite. But we are making progress. At least now we don't seem to hear too much talk about manifest destiny coming from you fascist Amerikkkan scum. It's not much, but we are making progress.

Metusaleh, we hear you.
You hate the United States!
==

Yes, I do, because there is a lot to hate. Your fascist shit is inescapable. And frankly, if YOU don't hate Amerikkka, then there's something seriously wrong with you.

oftwominds:
Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) Movement
- http://goo.gl/aSdeY

Oh, Eleuthero! Honestly!!

It's "stumbling clumsily", not stumbling clumsy, Buckyball. If you bothered to read my post more carefully, you might have read where I said this isn't going to happen because it's politics. I believe you misinterpreted what I was saying.

I'm just now watching news coverage of Khadaffi's killing. It's quite brutal and is a bit difficult not to feel some pity for him as I watch the Libyan leader being dragged, beaten and shot by an angry mob, even though, in the end, he died as brutally as he led. Karmic, I guess. I also can't help thinking of a few Americans that deserve(d) the same fate (Kissinger, Cheney, Nixon, LBJ, McNamara) for crimes against humanity that were almost assuredly far greater than Khadaffi's. Yet Kissinger and Cheney walk around free (and rich) without any fear of retribution or punishment because their crimes were committed in the name of freedom, liberty, blah, blah, blah. It's fucking hypocrisy, pure and simple.

Surprisingly, my public school math teachers were pretty competent. I believe most members of every age group in America still alive in reasonable numbers have been the victims of a poor educational policy. While I agree that logic and math should be taught at the higher levels, it becomes very difficult to train a mind to think logically and critically after one's personality has been set in place, sometime after 8 years old. I would prefer to start the training at this time.

"he was kilt in Sirte "in a hole" with "3 golden pistols "

==============

Anybody who thinks firearms (pistols, shotguns, etc.) are "protection" is an idiot in denial of reality. You are going to die and it does not matter how many pistols you have.

...And lo, it is written:
He who enters into Paradise with the greatest number of golden pistols shall be named the victor (all glory accrue to thee), Forever and ever, amen.

-1st Idiots; 7th Denial

Thailand capitol floods; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5jhRmR0O5k

I wonder how many months or years before the market is regulated toward sustainability...

The numbers of organizations signing on to resolutions on climate change continue to climb.

If anyone wants to watch tumbleweeds roll by, check out a climate denier blog.

There is a hard core of American idiocy and its demographic is foam hat, mustache, and gas guzzler.

"Examples: Would you or could you buy a car without seatbelts?"

LOL, WUT? I absolutely have "know" idea what you're getting at, with this example. I whuz gunna respond earlier, but you never responded to me, so I thought I'd simply let it "slide" (nope!)...

Are you suggesting a cost savings for the 2-ton death-metal coffin (auto) manufacturers (you chose to hop a ride in that rig - death has a certain probability, whether you believe it or not)?

Do you suggest seat belts are not effective? As in, those stories where someone would have been thrown free, rather than trapped inside to burn?

Do you believe people should have the right to chose? As in, "wear a helmet, or not?"

Or, do you suggest all cars should go hard-core air bags, subsidizing the air bag industry heavily, increasing all costs, and making accident replacement costs effectively car *totaled* every 10-15+MPH accident? The auto manufacturers, air bag manufacturers, and auto insurance companies will love you for this totally IRRELEVANT and ineffectual horseshit.

If you really want to make a *bottoms-up* change, try using that 2-ton death-metal coffin less - use mass transit, bicycle (rollerblade), or walk. Or, better yet, eliminate the $200/month car payment and the $100/month auto insurance, and get rid of that 2-ton death-metal coffin *ALTOGETHER*. If you really need to "motor" around, think about motorcycle/mopeds - cheap vehicles, cheap insurance, 3x the MPG (be ready for inconvenience, like not being able to just throw the plastic bags in the trunk/seats, but needing to bungee cord your load).

"Processed “food” companies are “choosing” to replace trans fats and corn syrup in their products."

Best to buy whole foods in bulk. Processed food used to have it's place - canned fruits/vegetables are done much more efficiently at a factory (and the freight weight increase is minimal). However, corporations will cut every last corner, just to save 1/4 of a penny each can - resulting in poor quality produce and too much salt/sugar(corn syrup)/preservative/BPA plastic films...

"These are outward changes taking place by appealing to what the “bottom-liners” care about."

Again I have no clue what you 'reefer' to here - bottom liners, as in the middle class/poor majority?

"One needs to meet people where they are to affect change. Does it require enmity or hatred? No. All natural growth is gradual. The rest is cancer."

One need not interact AT ALL with any other people. However, there is no escaping this current system - you will need land, which means you will have to buy it, and then pay exorbitant taxes upon it every year thereafter (if you want to be able to stay there). Disconnectedness, to a *point*.

So, simply stay disconnected, even here, don't read all the poasts, and only routinely do a search for your *alias* - you'll get your due discourse!!!

"Yet Kissinger and Cheney walk around free (and rich) without any fear of retribution or punishment because their crimes were committed in the name of freedom, liberty, blah, blah, blah. It's fucking hypocrisy, pure and simple."

I've been hearing all this horseshit today about torture, and wondering to myself why *heartless* Cheney wasn't held up to all those same MSM *ideals*. You nailed it - hypocrisy, divide/conquer.

""he was kilt in Sirte "in a hole" with "3 golden pistols ""

You totally missed the point, Soker. His lifeless, dead corpse (bullet in head, *collateral*) was dragged to that sewage tunnel, and then the *photo op* began. Same as with the other 2 (Osama/Saddam). It's a "show (sleight) of hands"...

Wonders will cease when morons like you cease making moronic comments.

No, I read your post very carefully, and for the sake of variety, I deliberately used "clumsy" because it read more "acute" against the attenuated softness of "stumbling", or at least to my ears. At any rate, you got the gist.

And the reason there will be no political solution is because apathetic invertbrates think that it is "all so futile" and lacking in critical thinking skills to actually seek out and elect politicians who just might represent their interests. Better to curl up like a ball in the corner - sniff, sniff. Or pretend you're swinging some Daniel Boone ax of future survival.

But I do have to say I get a kick out of closet right-wingers or eclectic middlemen posing as apathetic lefties. Inevitably, they almost always belie their disingenuous posturing by revealing beliefs such as eliminating public schools or expressing consternation over the deficit. More often than not, and when expressed by closet right-wingers, the latter is just an excuse to eliminate the social safety net.

yeah somethings up here, but it's over my head.

VLAD changed (for the better) a while back.
Just seemed more intelligent or something.

So who knows who is who. There is only one ME tho.

I don't post much anymore but still enjoy reading
this page.

Seasons' Greetings Y'all

New report - scientists model banksters to a "T":

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html

Pretty cut/dried - digital capital out of the *ETHER*. The model will not cure capitalism, however - infinite growth from finite resources is mathematically impossible. These damn scientists need to open their minds, beyond scatology...

"..."all so futile" and lacking in critical thinking skills to actually seek out and elect politicians who just might represent their interests."


I think you're still missing my point, Buck. There aren't any politicians who might represent our interests (by which I'm taking "our" to mean the typical American middle-classer or poor person). Think about it. In our society, what does it mean to run for national office and what does it mean to serve in office? A brutal campaign effort, toadying to those who have the funds to support your campaign, and almost daily confrontations with the rapacious media who are always looking for dirt and sensational stories.

To put up with all this and even more crap in our current political system, someone running for office either has to be a raging maniac, have a monstrous ego, be an unrealistic, moon-eyed idealist, or combinations of the three.

And while I'm at it, I'd never seek out politicians, who by your words "might" represent my interests. I'd need to feel much more strongly about a politician than to hope he "might" fit my own electoral criteria.

My own cynicism was born of frustration seeing politicians and big business colluding for the past 40 years or more to rape and plunder American citizens.

Please tell me what you mean by a social safety net. To me, there's a big difference between helping truly needy people and enabling the general citizenry to live off the government teat.

Finally, I'm amused at being called a closet right-winger. I'm impressed with your term, "eclectic middleman", though. I've never been called that before. I think a more accurate description of me would be an eclectic existentialist.

Ixnomor said:

you will need land, which means you will have to buy it, and then pay exorbitant taxes upon it every year thereafter (if you want to be able to stay there). Disconnectedness, to a *point*."

In the great American Southwest I owned one acre of land in a good location (near a river that runs year round) and pay $42 (forty-two dollars) in taxes per year.

The county gives me two choices. I can pay it all at once, or make two equal payments of $21 during the year.

I found your comments about "taxes" amusing... as if "taxes" are an evil, as if "taxes" are oppressive, as if paying "taxes" is somehow onerous.

Paying taxes is a small price to pay for the benefits we receive from our government: roads, energy infrastructure, food safety, clean water, waste treatment, etc.

gotta give it up o3 you win this round- that s fuckin' hilarious i don t care how sad it might be heh heh heh heh "1st idiots 7th denial"!!! (slap) thanks, i needed that

ix, i think ront meant that when we let our purchasing power (such as it is) affect "their" bottom line- letting them know what we do or don t want- is when the incremental changes occur...ront, call me out if i m off base here...there are seatbelts in your car now after all, right?

WTF?! are you being deliberately obtuse, or making a sick joke?! roads? falling apart- ask any trucker energy infrastructure? what blog are YOU reading? food safety? PLEASE!! tell that to the 25 or 30 people dead of listeria this last month! clean water huh? jackass! and waste treatment? look up the artificial sweeteners and prescription drugs that are in our drinking water because they go right through us into the sewer...when my taxes are taking care of all these things instead of endless wars and congressional perks, THEN it will be a small price to pay!

Americans are trained in school to be narcissists. Narcissism is the self-evident endgame of the self-esteem movement: "Oh, look at you, you little thing, how precious and unique! This little snowflake has nothing to learn from his elders and betters, now does he?" Well, don'tcha know, some of the kiddos take that rot to heart.

Combine that with the shallow rhetoric about diversity that is fashionable of late, and we have a recipe for a lot of really uncomfortable, untenable situations, not just balkanization but also, among other things, obnoxious showboating by all manner of mediocrities. Cornel West and Al Sharpton come immediately to mind. It probably isn't coincidental that I instantly thought of two blacks, as blacks are one of the groups most vigorously encouraged to play this sick game on account of their abundant diversity points. Meanwhile, it is impossible for blacks to express any sort of disagreement with the party line; witness the atrocious treatment of Ward Connerly.

Latinos, having also been invited to the diversity fair, often face the same treatment. Not long ago I heard an avowed lefty make an extremely bigoted comment about Sal Esquivel, a Republican state representative from Medford, OR, to the effect of, "how dare that beaner be a Republican!" Esquivel, mind you, is a fully acculturated native-born American who has the same regional accent as most of the Anglos around here.

The amount of seething resentment engendered by this attitude is easily underestimated because it so often goes unspoken. Of course, it can be hilariously absurd, too, as it is when the earnest condescending suggest that Cornel West is worthy of serious discussion but Thomas Sowell is not.

The saving grace is that a lot of people have the innate good sense not to believe any of the garbage that I've described.

My view on public sexual morals is almost the opposite. One way in which public manners and morals in the United States have noticeably improved in recent generations is that a growing number of people find it distasteful and morally repugnant to pin the scarlet letter on others whose sexual activity or sexuality they find improper. Calling one's relatives and neighbors whores, sluts, faggots or the like is to my way of thinking a hallmark of deep incivility and malice. It is disingenuous and frankly offensive for many of the people who peddle sexual gossip and chastisement to claim that they do so out of an abiding love for mature, self-actualized sexuality because they obviously do so out of neurosis, repression, projection and prurient interest.

Telling the church busybodies, high school gossip girls and J. Edgar Hoovers of the world that their means and ends are disreputable has been a coup for public manners, as well as for the cause of well-examined sexuality, since it has driven many of the creeps out of the fray and made room for decent, sane people of goodwill. I am very glad to note that the pro-life movement, although I disagree with its monomaniacal fixation on abortion as a singular evil, has become extremely principled and decent and, on the whole, sensible vis-a-vis women with unintended pregnancies. The difference between the average pro-life activist and the average old-school shit-talking sex scold is night and day. Good riddance to the latter.

Public discussion of sexuality tends to suffer from a very low signal-to-noise ratio. This includes the effects of promiscuity. Promiscuity is not the stuff of a deep, fulfilling sex life, but it isn't the inevitable path to ruin that some people make it out to be. I've known people who were very promiscuous in their early twenties and settled into contented monogamy in their mid-twenties. My buddy Junior Bear is one. The flaws in his current relationship have very little to do with sex. Sex easily turns into a red herring for couples who have much more serious interpersonal problems, so fixating on it as the crux of a relationship is foolish and counterproductive.

So is telling the outlandish tall tales that some Christian sex activists tell about the psychological and medical effects of premarital sex. They destroy their own credibility by crying wolf about every sex act that violates their narrow preconceptions of holiness. Yes, promiscuity is risky, but if those zealots understand epidemiology, I'm Jonas Salk.


Greece on fire, government workers fired, oh what fun.

Instead of one liners, jackasses, give me an alternative to Free Salaries and Cheap Rents. Everyone is pissed off at wall street, "the rich", "inequality" but then what does everyone propose ? Oh more "Free Market", or "More Education" or "More Small Businesses" or "More Competition" or "Less Taxes" or "More Innovation", the entire set of BS that everyone from left to right have been chanting on and on for decades without ever looking at the evidence if any of this works. Well, it doesn't. JAPAN has done everything you can imagine in terms of Education, Infrastructure, Innovation, Research, you name it and they have been in a stagnation for decades, the USA has been applying all the magic formulas like forever and it is going down the toilet, Germany has been in a stagnation for decades and they have top notch everything (they just barely started growing "economically" in the last 2 years simply because all of the other countries suck so much and they have concentrated all of the work in their country taking it away from oh, Spain, Italy, Greece, you name it, they sell BMW, MERCEDES, AUDI, VW etc. by the millions worldwide for example).

There is no choice, it is DIGITAL either my solution or no solution, either my way or the highway, Free Salaries (800 dollars a month), Cheap Rents (not more than 200 dollars a month), the government HIRES MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE EVEN TO DO BLUNTLY AND PROUDLY NOTHING AT ALL AND ALSO ROCKETS TO MARS, SKYSCRAPERS, YOU NAME IT!. We have a hugely optimized economy that generates free wealth by the trillions of dollars so you must give it out to everyone and only the governments worldwide can do this, instead everyone just chants the old BS and lets the rich hog it all up.

Now go on, say I am crazy, I am stupid, go on, go on with a one liner, don't propose any real solution or alternative, make up all kinds of excuses, say that is it this guys fault, or Odumbos fault, or Bushes fault, or China's fault. No, it is the system, stupid, it is the structure of the system that imposes the government must hire millions and millions to do proudly and bluntly and simply NOTHING AT ALL.

Instead of one liners, jackasses, give me an alternative to Free Salaries and Cheap Rents.
There is no choice, it is DIGITAL either my solution or no solution, either my way or the highway, Free Salaries (800 dollars a month), Cheap Rents (not more than 200 dollars a month), the government HIRES MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE EVEN TO DO BLUNTLY AND PROUDLY NOTHING AT ALL AND ALSO ROCKETS TO MARS, SKYSCRAPERS, YOU NAME IT!. We have a hugely optimized economy that generates free wealth by the trillions of dollars so you must give it out to everyone and only the governments worldwide can do this, instead everyone just chants the old BS and lets the rich hog it all. from http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176934

Study it all carefully. And all of the previous posts on ilovephilosohpy by nameta9 and similar.

Correction:

Now go on, say I am crazy, I am stupid, go on, go on with a one liner, don't propose any real solution or alternative, make up all kinds of excuses, say that is it this guys fault, or Odumbos fault, or Bushes fault, or China's fault. No, it is the system, stupid, it is the structure of the system that imposes the only solution possible, namely that the governments worldwide must hire millions and millions to do proudly and bluntly and simply NOTHING AT ALL.

"Wonders will cease when morons like you cease making moronic comments."

My *Precious*!!! Lulz, couldn't help myself. However, when I call someone a moron (which I have, often), I provide a reason to support that premise (not simply Ad Hominem). Also the self-defining "moron because moronic" thang is kinda humorous (as whuz the "cease, cease" deally).

Soker bleated:
"I found your comments about "taxes" amusing... as if "taxes" are an evil, as if "taxes" are oppressive, as if paying "taxes" is somehow onerous."

Haha, I payed 6 figures in taxes one year (obviously pre-Dumbya). I didn't run for Brazil as a tax evader. Over $50k of it was rolled into some bogus AMT credit carryover (which took nearly 2 decades to finally credit back).

After having gone through this, I understand some of the loophole issues in our tax code. There's definitely some funny business in the AMT code which can be exploited - thus the recent concerns about more and more middle class types hitting the AMT limit.

I see no reason why we should ever reward capital gains or dividend earnings, more than actual labor salaries - this was only done to benefit the rich, as the majority of their income has always come from magical investment money. I also believe that even the ultra poor should pay some federal tax - let's say 2-3%. Finally, tax brackets should extend to 65% or so above $500k. And, corporations shouldn't get tax breaks by offshoring/outsourcing labor, headquarters, or banking facilities - they should be taxed at *2x* the normal rate when they pull that scammy shit.

We all need to remember that profits are simply revenues, minus fixed and variable costs (materials, labor, facility). Even when a corporation earns NO PROFITS WHATSOEVER, it still provides labor jobs at NO LOSS WHATSOEVER. Unfortunately, labor's always been a variable cost, and has therefore ended up offshored/outsourced to the lowest common denominator...

Tax Code! Trade Tariffs! Banking Regulations!!!

Yeah, I know, somewhat rambly...

Ix,
Thanks for the links.
I always wonder what goes through the minds of the willing pawns and frontmen who bring this violence, treachery and misery upon their neighbors and relatives. It can't be a pretty set of thoughts and conclusions, I'd wager.

...And, in the end, aren't we all neighbors and relatives? Those without scruples have much to answer for. (If there is any time left to pose the accusations, that is. That would seem to be in doubt.)

I think san fran mom (oops, san jose!) poasted those links quite a while back - I saved them, as they seemed to completely illustrate the same old, tired out, covert military roadmap "they" have used for decades...

It's always the same old routine - spies infiltrating cells/organizations (Afghanistan/Russia, Iran/Iraq, Cold War/Berlin Wall, Iraq/Kuwait [vertical drilling], 911, Arab Spring, Ad Nauseum), and planting ideas. Then, kicking back and watching what happens (and not interfering [e.g. stand-down orders])

"They" do seem to be getting a *LOT* better, at achieving the same goals, MUCH FASTER, and with MUCH LOWER FATALITIES. "They" must stroke themselves routinely now, given these stats (who wouldn't be *proud*?)...

I believe Libya has the largest reserve of oil in Africa, and 3rd largest on the planet - and they claim it's real clean and sulfur-free (less refinement required). Gee whiz, ain't that a beneficial *consequence*...

Ps. More people should consider Engdahl's analyses IMHO. I think he's got a good handle on the strategies that are deployed again, and again, and again...
Who benefits?

Thanks again! (Didn't have that one.)

Speaking o' which; anything pop out at you here?
Oopsie.

http://ir.theice.com/directors.cfm

WTF? Hehe, maybe the poles and glaciers are melting? Pot Sticker time!!!

Ixnomor,
Some readers grasped what I was attempting to say--sorry you did not. The arguments you set forth did not really oppose as I am in agreement with most of what you said.

One last ray of sunshine 'afore I go.
This from Paul Craig Robert's latest:

"In the few opening years of the 21st century, Washington has destroyed the US Constitution, the separation of powers, international law, the accountability of government, and has sacrificed every moral principle to achieving hegemony over the world. This ambitious agenda is being attempted while simultaneously Washington removed all regulation over Wall Street, the home of massive greed, permitting Wall Street’s short-term horizon to wreck the US economy, thus destroying the economic basis for Washington’s assault on the world.

Will the US collapse in economic chaos before it rules the world?" -PCR

Well, fer gawd's sake, don't sugar-coat it Mr. Roberts; we can take it. ;o)

If by eclectic you mean " all over the place" I have to agree with you. For example, you assert that no American politicians are willing to represent the interests of poor people(an exaggeration)and they instead collude with Big Biz to "rape and plunder" the American citizen. Further down the post you claim that there's a big difference between living off the "government teat" and helping truly needy people in regards to social safety nets. Not to answer a question with a question, but what people living off the " "government teat" deserve the cold-turkey treatment? The same Americans who have been raped and plundered by Big Biz/politicians? But to specifically answer your question I was referring to Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare, targets directly in the sight of right-wing politicians who never met a defense budget too expensive to cut.

There's a saying, "If the people lead, the politicians will follow ". I believe the Tea Party provides some credence to this phrase. And will see what happens with OWS.

Bertolt Brecht wrote that a " remarkable unity appears between tormenters and tormented, exploiters and exploited, deceivers and deceived". And what better way to bond this unity with lifeless cement than to confirm the apathetic nihilism of Nietzsche's "The Last Man". Perhaps it's an inevitability of growing old. But for those still willing to hold up a sigh and pull a voting lever, Hegel lives. And yes, that's the only "hope" that will transform a reality that we both lament.

America's leaders are psychopaths. Basically even the "progressives" fav perk of office is watching snuff porn from the WOT. The latest snuff film starring Gaddafi.

Then how is that countered? OWS where the rabble hold signs saying, "I want to drink the blood of the rich", complete with blood drops.

I want JHK to go back to describing the antics of stupid crackers and their neck flames as the world's greatest threat to mankind, at least that was fun.

Oh the irony of a man whose life was spent learning the trade of dehumanization of the "cracker as nazi", and for what?

Jim, Stan Kubrick warned you in "Clockwork Orange" but you didn't listen, you kept with the program of caning the crackers, what a waste.


This is the cont,
Everyone always against "The Government" or "Big Government" or "Against Taxes", what total mega jackasses everyone is ! I can't believe it ! The only entity (the government) that is for the "Common Good", that is giving to everyone, that is furnishing all of the basic services like school and law enforcement and others, the only entity that could avoid that the true selfish, hoggish, aggressive and essentially lawless nature of humans is put under control, avoiding the strong from crushing the weak (like in High Real Estate Prices and High Health Care Prices and Corporations having a field day laying off workers and enjoying the pain inflicted, just for fun, just because, because they can, there is no strong government that cracks their heads open, that tells them "You Can't Do That, You Must Keep On Paying Them All Because I, the Government, Says So", so go for the fun, for example) the only entity that could redistribute a little of the huge amount of trillions the hogs on top rob from the working class by taxing the rich and taxes in general (therefore taxes are essentially good, not bad as everyone is brainwashed in thinking) is the "Enemy" of both the OWS and Tea Party!

continued fom the philosophy site.
They all got it upside down, we need a strong and ever stronger government that hires millions, we need huge government that puts forth huge projects, we need the government everywhere in all affairs, not the opposite. But mostly we need to make sure those government officials that control the machine are not corrupt and are nice and honest, they must be kept in check otherwise their hoggish nature will come out just like when the private characters do their thing.

I just wanted to shove that down your throats.

"Obama has a lot of nerve claiming to support the Occupy Wall Street movement. He should be one of the objects of its ire."

Wow, man. Jimmy gets a clue.

"Bush ran the country into the deficit ditch so deep we may never get out."

But that wasn't good enough. So Obama came along and trumped Bush. But even THAT wasn't enough. So tries jamming his "jobs bill" down our throats. What an ass.

Cryptic Communique to:

OzonePete
SW Mass.

Subject:
Tuckers,
Roosterville, MA

dbiebeiwfeuih8954yt8954g9h8hf9843hwsdjsdsdjncsdjnferherh489ehrehrioniodferijioregreijg[09erwoi[jferoerkerorkkekrkrokoeroker[werjwe[0jf[we09jwe[jijfijgeijrgerijg9958945iey9056490w49w9404w9049459404r49t49t45954u9tejgeijgerjg3j39j349t39gre9mrtgo4wjkw4jkkw4jk4ijtjtrihjioy968946y4w99tgh9te9kgj9054i9045i54i950i5i9ty5468y4w5jetjerjgeratg9054i95i59ity5959u5093e59359t546yu896y49whtrjb]rfjre9okgy649085qgrjgrjj]rejre ...

--WideSpreadPanic7

"...you can’t spend your time creating words and images that appeal to the nonrational mind without your own nonrational mind being influenced by them..."
-jmg-

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/

Various posters mention John Michael Greer from time to time. I just read this post of this this week - and I can't get it out of my mind.

It explains marketing, propaganda - everything that has the US and the world in the place it is.

"thaumaturge," and "magic" may be off-putting vocabulary to some of you - but the underlying
concepts ARE in CONSTANT USE - regardless of the vocabulary used.

Take a look.

It seems OWS is a redistrubution point for white p***y, and some pot and little else.

Any of you young gals going there especially you white ones, take condoms and lots of them, because you will be made to put out.

That is how the Left rolls, but according to OWS Baltimore the sexual "abuser" will be given counseling, yep you read that right.

The local samo throw away news has on Page 1..
GRADE SCHOOL DIVERSITY STUDY BY UCLA PROFS!!!

FABIANS BACK...Only Fabe/OEO/Notmommy ever called the esteemed JHK 'jimbo' here, to my knowledge.

FYI, following is a slightly edited version of an email I sent to Jim Kunstler a moment ago:

Jim,

I've been a regular poster on your blog for 2.5 years. Lately I am being driven to near madness ... as suggested in the subject of this email.

Anyone who has been around here for awhile knows that a comment that is "held for review" will never be seen again in this lifetime or any future lifetimes (should there be any truth to reincarnation). Not only are those "held" comments gone forever ... we never learn what offense caused the hold in the first place. The same goes for "403 Error" messages and other forms of banning.

On, or about, Oct 2nd I tried to post a rather long comment. It was "held for review." I assumed its long length was the cause although I've seen numerous comments that were much longer make it into the comments section. There was no foul language (not that that is ever a problem here), no wild ass conspiracy theories which I know you hate (as do I) and nothing anti-semitic. Not only was my comment innocent in those respects, I, personally, have never been tattooed. Surely THAT is a plus in my column isn't it? ;-)

So I went with the "too long" theory and tried to break up the comment into several parts. The first part (just a few paragraphs) was immediately rejected, i.e. held for review. My next attempt resulted in a 403 Error message. From that point on, for 2 weeks, it was impossible to get to your blog site in any way.

Then my laptop totally crapped out and I bought a new one and lo and behold when I clicked on my ClusterfuckNation favorite the site came up. That was a few days ago.

Today I tried again to submit that long comment that was held 3 weeks ago and damned if it didn't get held again. It contains no links to other sites ... which is a pet theory of some of the posters here for why some comments won't go through.

May I suggest that you, Jim, write a comment "To all participants on this blog" saying:

Following are the rules bearing on the acceptability of a comment: .......

Following are the reasons a comment will be held for review: ........

Following are reasons I may ban you from this site: ........

Jim, you have recently lost several prolific and excellent commenters because of this problem and it is evident in the weekly count of comments.

Please do something about this.

Regards,
Qshtik

Q -
That was well said. You'll be glad to know that I concur 99.9%! hah!

I hope JHK understands how much thought goes into some of the posts on this website. And how many of us use what we learn here out in the larger world.

Antisoak - you are correct that Jimbosbrain is certainly Fab/Too/notmommy.
I'd welcome him back - but he'd probably fire off a "fucktard torpedo." (tm Cash)

Cash - where are you, man??
You can reincarnate as $Cash$, you know.

Q: glad you re back...mr kunstler sir, i concur sir with what Q said...sounds like a great idea...

sorry prog, i thought he was back: ...post of HIS this week...

oh, and yeah- thanks for the link way back when: i ve been reading jmg since i started lurking this site in early august...he s got quite a lot of thoughtful & thought provoking ideas for sure!

Will do; plans for the diesel-powered firewood saw are in the pipeline.

As for the dead-drop, be advised: Do NOT, under any circumstance, attempt pickup on any date beginning with a "2".

The clowns are in the car.
Repeat:
The clowns are in the car.

Will be in touch via traditional method soon.

-End of communique-

That should do 'er.
Although JHK is not personally responsible for his software or the subversion/fucking-with thereof, your e-mail states the problem[s] well, and should provoke some complaints, if not outright solutions.
Thank you from "the rest of us".

Sorry, forgot to respond to your question of "ArchDruid" thread-following.

In a word, "yes". Marvelous food for thought, and with myself for a foil, most helpful! ;o)

(BTW, his explanation of practical magic as a psychological reinforcement is enriching and "non-scary". ;o)

FYI Update: JHK replied to my email as follows:

Subject: Re: What causes a comment to be "held for review" and whats up with a "403 Error?"

We installed plug-in troll control a month ago. It turns out to be flawed. Am considering unplugging it.

My suggestion to you: perhaps it is flagging you because you post too much.
Otherwise, I dunno

Jim
James Howard Kunstler
"It's All Good"
==================

To the above unsatisfying response, I replied to Jim as follows:

Well, thanks for the thorough technical explanation:

"perhaps it is flagging you because you post too much.
Otherwise, I dunno"

There is no way I post as frequently as some. Is your troll-control based on number of posts? If so, maybe I better keep my big mouth shut.

The "held for review" issue goes back waaay farther than a month. My first experience with it was a year ago.


Tucker's in Roosterville? I was just there on a bike ride a few weeks back. Do ya remember when it was Gracy Allen's ?. Don't lose your brakes coming down from the "Green Monster" on 57 west. At least now they have a runaway truck ramp at the turn. A half mile 13% grade with a 90 degree turn at the bottom. Believe me it is a thrill ride in a fully loaded tri-axle log truck! I worked up in those woods years ago.

Q: how much traction do you think we d get with an 'Occupy Clusterfuck' movement? how about "WE WANT TRANSPARENCY IN THE BLOGOSPHERE!" or "NO 403 FOR ME!" i like "OCF- WE ARE THE 98%" re-post ad infinitum until we get results, or at least until accused of not having a clear message...

I lost half of mine in the ol' Roadmaster. Mite bit of cold sweat there, but I made it to A&M at the bottom without a crash by crrrreeeping over the edge of the grade. Big Fun! ;o)

(I'm a tad east of the top o' that hill. Getting lumber down that grade in the olden days must've been a treat!)

SHEEET O3, I figured ya fer a CT. Yankee. Them be my old stompin' grounds. Are you far from the old "Dude Ranch" ? Years back a disgruntled customer went in there and cut the bar in half with his chain saw, although I was not there and just heard the stories. Now thats what I call a protest movement!

thank Gods you are back..
w/o you,cash,tripp,newworld....
this place is dullsville.

and OEO is back..those of you who have read/lurked here for less than, oh 6 months...
this blog 'inherited' people from other blogs early one..Including infamous OEO/ who has had 40?
screen names here since he gets banned so much [im on my 4th? 5th? but not from being intentionally banned].
OEO uses terms like 'fucktard' and 'jimbo'
if you want go back 2 or 3 years here and read.

Q: how much traction do you think we d get with an 'Occupy Clusterfuck' movement?
============

Yeah, some of those ideas and slogans might have an impact but I regret that I cannot join forces with someone who has dreamt up another new way to drive me nuts ... namely writing contractions without the apostrophe. You're not even saving a key stroke. You still have to hit the space bar.

Well, holy cow! I'd smack him in the face if I could. Lord knows you can be abnoxious sometimes (if not most of the time), but he has a lot of gall to go after you when there are so many more posters who blather on and on about particularly nothing and yet have nothing to say, really, but try to explain things in terms of their own life experience, with no regard to whoever the audience is, just somebody blathering on about what they remember what was and has little if not relationship to what's going on in the present...(well, you get the general idea). I was really quite pissed off when I got flagged frequently.

Just thought I'd share some musings, for whatever it's worth. Keep fighting the good fight. Those of us who still remember the painful whack of the ruler when we'd fail (at the chalkboard) to correctly diagram a sentence will keep you in our hearts and minds. Godspeed!

I lost more than I care to admit in a Roadmaster. Gee, they had the roomiest backseats!

It is difficult for me to exactly define the difference between those truly needy and those living off the government teat, but basically, I'd say it's the difference between someone acting responsibly and doing everything they can to survive on their own, but still needs help to stay alive, versus someone who acts irresponsibly for themselves and their dependents and/or who prefers to have the government give them a free ride for goods and services.

I guess it's ultimately a matter of philosphy of government. Is it the government's responsibility to provide for the needs of all its citizens, or not? If so, are there any limits to what it provides and to whom it provides for? Or should the role of government be more limited? Should the government get out of people's lives? For me, I think it should be the latter.

In a perfect world, wouldn't it be great if the government took care of all our needs? I'd love to live in that world, but unfortunately, reality doesn't allow it.

A society is ultimately judged by how it treats its most unfortunate members. The elderly and truly infirm deserve a bit of assistance, if not merely a pittance in order to survive and stay warm. There is no excuse for a country like the United States to deprive citizens who cannot care for themselves a level of sustenance to keep them alive. As far as liver transplants go, for a 50 plus year old man who is diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, what can I say? For you and me it would be a death sentence. These days if you have enough money (Larry Hagman nearly drank himself to death before trading in for a new liver), the sky's the limit. Is there not a balance that we can achieve here?
P.S. Glad to see ya back! Ditto fellow oldie, "Q"! (loathe that I am to admit it!)

Lord knows you can be abnoxious sometimes
================

No Myrtle, you've got that wrong ... I am sometimes obnoxious.


Thanks for the kudos, Ozone. I am now RETIRED at age 59 because the moment I saw that I could make it financially (I saved like Depression era people), I couldn't wait to get out. I retire on June 25 of this year. I've mentally divorced myself so much from the institution I worked for and from the horrible students of recent years that: a) I haven't stepped foot on campus for four months, b) Have no plans to do so, and c) Feel as if that aspect of my life was a lifetime ago.

The bureaucrats in education are so fearful of funding cuts that there's an implicit imperative to dumb EVERYTHING down which, of course, leads to an increasingly uncompetitive workforce. These career bureaucrats, however, are not long term thinkers. They're a lot like the nervous Nellies that pass for "investors" on Wall St..


E.


Anti Soak said:

So you are saying he is for the Corporations/ Multi Nationals?
Or you just dislike him?
******************************************************************

I'm saying that he's a hypocrite if he supports the concentrated plutocracy in this country and claims to be an anti-globalist at the same time. Most of the super-rich in America ARE the CEOs of the huge globalist concerns whether they be in banking, mining, or technology.

Buchanan's too smart not to realize that he's talking out both sides of his mouth. Therefore, I've decided BECAUSE of that that I don't like him. His contradictory position, outlined above, is like saying that I want to prove I'm in favor of chastity by fucking anything that moves ... it's that self-negating ... and ILLOGICAL.


E.


Hi, AMR!! Actually, much of what you describe is reverse racism more than narcissism. In a sense, EVERYONE is a narcissist because, to some degree, it's a reflection of the survival instinct ... the instinct to preserve your unique identity. However, it's very sad when members of a cultural group are so bereft of ideas for how to better their community that they are only left with tribal pride. It's stupid and deevolutionary.

When a man has only his tribal pride, he's got NOTHING. Never, for a moment of my life have I thought: "Gee, I'm so proud to be Teutonic". If I were reduced to that, it would have very bad implications about what I've made of my life.


E.

I think you misunderstand my position on public sexual morals. My point was that sexuality is a PRIVATE matter and has always been regarded so in civilized society. However, what with "tramp stamps" (tats on butt cracks on in boob cleavages) and such, people now foist their vanity, vulgarity, and lack of restraint in an obvious way. Instead of censuring such people, they are now lionized on TV and in public life as being "exciting" people. They are anything but. They are LOUD people who, whatever their age, their message is "Above all, NOTICE ME"!!

Now, I'm not in favor of LEGISLATING against bad taste, poor manners, and tacky decorum. What I'm in favor of is PARENTS DOING THEIR FUCKING JOB!!! And even more, I'm sick of parents "retrofitting" their lives by COPYING their children and getting piercings and tattoos themselves. It's like adolescence never ends in the U.S. of A.. Fifty is the new 17. :-) :-)


E.


For what it's worth, I got a "held for review" message on a post that was hardly long and certainly not flame bait.

Jim, time to unplug the censor, whatever it is. It's infuriating to lose a post and I've had it happen about five times and my average weekly post rate is about twice per week. It's "bursty" ... sometimes I don't say anything for a month and then I'll do seven posts in two days ... but you get the idea.


E.


Europe ... getting more deranged by the day. Gee, how many times will the Greek Parliament meet to discuss new austerity measures?? How many times has history taught us that austerity in a depression causes an absolute downward spiral. It cannot do otherwise because austerity reduces the spending power of the majority of people which leads to a reduction in the price of goods which leads to more firings which leads to more poverty.

Any notion that Europe's leaders are somehow more subtle, more clever, more sagacious than our leaders is now looking like so much farce. According to John Hussman, the EU banking system is now 2x leveraged relative to OUR degree of leverage in 2008.

When this can can no longer be kicked down the road, WOW, will the worldwide equity markets tank. Mayan calendar theories aside, 2012 sure looks like a Black Swan year.


E.

When I woke up this morning

I was wondering whether the monetarists actually know anything about a working national economy. Oh, yes, they can goose up the stock market with all their little tricks in the bag, like plunge protection and buying into the market, but they seem to know nothing about how to sustain an economy nationally, now that they've gone global.

Nothing they do seems to keep the atmosphere intact here at home, nor do they seem to have any concern about that. Obama has just had three free trade deals with no benefit to American workers that I can see. Lot's of places to hide assets from the govt, though.

In the meantime for the past 35 years the plutocracy has been rewriting the laws to suit themselves. They have fixed the national justice apparatus to keep themselves out of jail--nothing they do is actually illegal anymore. That's why O is doing very little about the banksters. Oh, and BTW, don't forget that the SEC was shredding all the documents concerning potential investigation of the wrong-doings of the banks. With a govt watchdog like that, know wonder there is no paper trail.

E, About Buchanan, I find him to be very dissatisfying for the same reasons you do. He is talking against globalism, but not addressing the fault of the people who insist on using it to make the greatest differential in currency exchanges as well by using slave labor. They will never give up the financial and military hegemony and have basically forced Europe into this mess.

Well, the Europeans seem to have bought into the neoliberal nonsense we've introduced to them and I'm wondering whether their whole social safety net will crash as well. Imagine we can say to our people, see...socialism doesn't work, so stop yapping about single payer health care. It's never going to happen here--we are way too exceptional for that.

But back at home, It's hard to believe that people are still pretending that they don't know what works in a depression and what doesn't. After our experience with the last depression there shouldn't be any argument about what works, but ah, alas, this is not a reality based political environment.

I now refer to the Republicans as the 3 R's. Revanchist, Revisionists and Regressives. I am watching their agendas and they are about wiping out the twentieth century, where unions and progressivism created an amazing workforce.

They would love to put the social progressivism back in a box and lock it.

In the meantime China and the other BRIC countries will move forward with all the US money poured into their economies instead of ours. What a choice we will have in the coming elections!

I'm 2 hun'ert yards east of the overhead highway sign warning trucks to: test brakes - steep grade ahead! ;o) Looooong dirt driveway; c'mon in! (Don't mind the tiger traps.)
But I've only been here since 2004; used to reside in Unionville, CT (the workin'-man's part of Fahh-mington). Perhaps if I live another 20 years or so, I'll be considered a resident here. ;o)

"The bureaucrats in education are so fearful of funding cuts that there's an implicit imperative to dumb EVERYTHING down which, of course, leads to an increasingly uncompetitive workforce. These career bureaucrats, however, are not long term thinkers. They're a lot like the nervous Nellies that pass for "investors" on Wall St..." -E.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Everybody's so concerned with their own ass[ets], that they can't understand that in looking at the dear chir'rens (most of whom can't think or work), they're staring straight into the face of the future! Halloween-y!

all apologies...my thumbing style is a holdover from an old phone: it was a real pain to get to punctuation or to change tense; i guess i m (sorry!) stubborn & eccentric about some things...as for Capital Letters, i now save them for Emphasis i sincerely hope that if we can t be friends; that at least you won t feel like my adversary...and know that i feel the same as yourself about spelling and vocabulary issues, even while realizing we don t all have an equal education...again Qshtik, i mean no disrespect, and i have enjoyed reading most if not all of your posts in the short time i have been "here" (not apple-polishing, just telling it like it is) if my attempts at humor ever offend you just let me know & i ll leave you alone y all have a nice day...

myrtlemay, i know that quote about how society is judged has become a cliche, but things are cliche precisely because of inherent truth...i ve always felt that government s role should be mostly in providing a framework for it s citizenry- infrastructure if you will- that can be accessed by those in need, but that more importantly makes it unnecessary for the majority of us to need that help: like a fair and equitable wage system; corporate regs concerning environmental, financial "industry", healthcare, etc issues...strike any chords for you?

Ixnomor,
I responded to your response already but wish to make two comments.

“If you really want to make a *bottoms-up* change, try using that 2-ton death-metal coffin less - use mass transit, bicycle (rollerblade), or walk. Or, better yet, eliminate the $200/month car payment and the $100/month auto insurance, and get rid of that 2-ton death-metal coffin *ALTOGETHER*.”

About four years ago, I couldn’t get my car to pass the smog test, so I handed it in to the state who gave a $1000 for doing so. This almost covered the expenses for trying to get it to pass. I replaced the car with a bicycle. My wife and I are now a one car family. I ride the bike and walk for transportation and stay fit(ter) at the same time. I love not paying for insurance and repairs for a second car! I also live a 20 minute walk from the area rapid transit which I use often.

Now to my main reason for responding. “Do you believe people should have the right to chose? As in, "wear a helmet, or not?"

I wear a helmut when I ride my bike. For some time I would stop young folks who were riding without a helmut and try to convince them that they should. The story I would tell them was of a young (20-21) man I had known from birth. He had A LOT going for him: talented, smart, attractive, lovable, and loving. One night he was riding home from a party on his bike, not wearing a helmut. He was struck by a drunk driver. All of his injuries healed within a couple of weeks EXCEPT the brain injury he sustained. That injury left him unable to move on his own, eat, drink or speak. His parents and others who adored him cared for him in this state for three years before he died from an infection. Our brain matter is so important and so delicate as to need practical protection.

In answer to the above question, I think there should be a regulation that requires wearing a helmut while riding bikes or motorcycles or other similar vehicles. There is no good reason that I can think of to “choose” otherwise. Unless you believe that laziness or believing that helmut wearing is not “cool” are good reasons.

ront, i hugged a tree off of a dirtbike in my twenties: if i d been wearing a helmet, i would have been killed or paralyzed (trust me on this; as it was i woke up the next day in the hospital) i ve also wrecked, and been wrecked a coupla times when, if i hadn t been wearing a helmet, well, dead or paralyzed...as a result, i am definitely pro-choice also, i think part of the debate has to be where does one draw the line on legislating what one is or is not allowed to choose- in almost any endeavor? i mean, just because "you" know what s best for yourself, by what stretch do "you" know what s best for me?! let me dictate your actions, and we ll see how fast your oppinion changes, huh?

"It's like adolescence never ends in the U.S. of A.. Fifty is the new 17."

This country has a real problem with death and decay, the two things that foster renewal and the promise of a future. Faced with winter food shortfalls, elders of eskimo groups disrobe and walk out onto the ice, knowing that their sacrifice will perpetuate their genes and their way of life. On the other hand, when an entire society is bent on the trappings of adolescence, and absolutely no one is willing to face death and decay, the end of that society cannot be far off.

No more regulations. The last thing we need in this world is more idiots saved from themselves. Automobiles cause the death of 40,000 Americans every year, but is there any sort of cry to regulate the use of automobiles? No, of course not, that would stimey economic growth. Twenty people die of E. coli overdoses, thanks to what "they" claim was tainted spinach (probably from a tiny organic operation), and the so-called anti-regulatory right wing goes apeshit about it, demanding that the "unsafe" hippie micro-farm be brought to justice, but when millions of packages of processed goods, whose ingredients come from giant mega-farms all over the country, are recalled, do any of these same people accept the blame? Nooo, we have a USDA stamp on our umbrella, so it's their fault, talk to them. Another pro-regulatory position that is counter-productive.

As long as large, complex supply chains exist there will be no geniune accountability, through regulation, rubber stamping, or any other means. The only way to get that is to deal with the people who produce your needs face-to-face. Thankfully, the trend toward that is already underway.

Had an awesome week riding horses and camping with my folks in Missouri. More fun than I thought it would be. Got some cool photos and even a YouTube video or two that I'll share with you guys as they become available. For anyone who is interested. Good to be back at the farm though! All the animals are alive and well, and the fall crops coming right along.

Charlie, you say, “i mean, just because "you" know what s best for yourself, by what stretch do "you" know what s best for me?!” It is an illusion, although a very attractive one, that I or you KNOW what’s best. We sure would like to believe that we do, and we can do our best. But how good is our best? Why would I not want to take advantage of the help of others who may have a greater understanding and than I? Cooperation with a well thoughtout safety regulation imposed seems to me a better alternative than ongoing decision making by each rider in each individual circumstance or in establishing a routine practice. Again there are people making their own decisions deciding this with little or no sense of the impact but instead maybe how a helmut looks in the eyes of others.

Maybe its like the Wavy Gravy’s sentiment I heard last night in a film about him: It is better to be sharing than to be comparing what each other is wearing. (from memory)

Also, in response to Trip, what comes to mind is that people should be encouraged to do what they can as competently as they can without thinking too seriously what they believe others will think of them.

Ront,

I don't say this often, in fact probably never, but I really enjoy your commentary. I hope to stick around. And welcome to our little corner of CFN.

I hope ^you stick around

I got 403'd six weeks ago. Struggling to understand the parameters of the algorithm, after my post was "held for ransom", I deleted a paragraph or two, then retried. Same result. So I deleted a paragraph or two. Again, the same result. No Nigger, slut fuck, shit piss words, I figured there was some word-count limit. So I deleted it down to one paragraph and tried again. Banned. The criteria has to do with frequency of posts, at least.

Then, a cookie is dropped in your browser to tag you as undesirable. The IP you came from is also noted. This first line of defense preferentially bans the cookie holder, not the whole IP domain. If you get rid of the cookie, and then attempt to post under your old nom de plume, you get the heavier banstick treatment. Soon the whole IP you posted from is banned. By logging in you identify yourself as a banned person, potentially threatening every IP you log in from. What do? Well, there are several ways around this. One is using a proxy server. Pretend you are peon in Communist China. Log into a proxy server and type the URL in. The request is mediated by their servers (and IPs) so you can at least access. You have to pay a fee to subscribe to features like posting ability. If the software bans the proxy IP, you can try another proxy, ad infinitum as there are lots of free web proxies. At the very least you will be able to view the site, if not post.

Banning is a good thing. I spent too much time here as a creature of habit.

Good to talk to ya, too. For my response to you, see Charliefoxtrot's post today at 9:20 am. I agree with him, and he seems to say it better and more concise than I can.

Then, a cookie is dropped in your browser to tag you as undesirable.
==============

Just so you don't drop a cookie in my shorts ... the crumbs would drive me crazy.

Seriously though Bust, your post sounds like its loaded with great info but you might as well be speaking Libyan. I was born on the wrong side of the great personal computer timeline so I barely know diddly squat. I wouldn't know a proxy server if I tripped over it. I assume I have a proxy server when my waitress has to take a wicked leak and has the bus boy deliver the hamburger and fries to my table. And I had to Google IP to learn that that means Internet Protocol, whatever the frig that is.

But anyway, it sounds like you buy Jim's contention that post count could land one on the shit list. My question would be, post count over what time period? When I came back from my 3-week banishment the other day (which is to say ... no posts in 3 weeks) my very first attempted post was "held..." That was the same post that caused all the trouble 3 weeks earlier. I got it from a copy I had stored away in an email "saved draft." My very next post attempt, 10/21 @ 3:23PM sailed thru with no problem.

Truth Hurts - Marc Faber - YouTube
- http://goo.gl/xkQRW

This whole cantalope thing is crazy. I wash my cantalope with soap and water before I cut into it. Seems to me that the exterior texture of a cantalope would be prime breeding ground for trouble. With smooth melons, I simply rinse them before cutting. Who needs bureaucratic red tape when you can simply wash your food before preparation.

These mass processors of meat creep me out because when they have a recall, it's for millions of pounds. I buy meat at a local grocery store where I can see them processing my meat right before my eyes.

I like cooking for my family and I want them to have the cleanest, most nutritious food possible.

"Cryptic Communique"

I believe I have cracked that "keyboard faceplant roll" of yours:
*http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Tucker%27s+Pub,+South+Main+Street,+Sandisfield,+MA&hl=en&ll=42.08835,-73.06951&spn=0.025096,0.038152&sll=42.087236,-73.068094&sspn=0.024332,0.038152&vpsrc=6&hq=Tucker%27s+Pub,&hnear=S+Main+St,+Sandisfield,+Berkshire,+Massachusetts&t=h&z=15*

So, are all 3 of you really living in that same remote place, or are you all sockpuppets of a single master puppeteer? I noticed most of the homeowners there had nice big green lawns, devoid of trees/gardens (I think I saw a couple farm animal/hay/straw fields).

myrtlemay wrote:
"... there are so many more posters who blather on and on about particularly nothing and yet have nothing to say, really, but try to explain things in terms of their own life experience, with no regard to whoever the audience is, just somebody blathering on about what they remember what was and has little if not relationship to what's going on in the present..."

Wow, does that 'reefer' to me? Hehe, it sounds like just about every single poaster on this site, using personal anecdotes to illustrate their point. I'm sure I've even seen *you* doing that, as well.

Bustin J wrote:
"Log into a proxy server and type the URL in. The request is mediated by their servers (and IPs) so you can at least access. You have to pay a fee to subscribe to features like posting ability."

You don't actually have to log into a proxy server, you merely need to manually configure your browser to use the proxy. At first I could read, but not poast - but then I set the proxy to be used for all protocols (firefox/edit/preferences/advanced/settings for me). You need both a proxy IP and port (some of those proxies don't provide ports - find a list that does).

I was able to find a monster list of them (ended up using a US proxy as well, not China/etc). I turned it on when surfing this site, then immediately turned it off (proxies are often quite laggy, and I'm not sure how much I'd trust sending non-SSL traffic through them).

(crosses fingers that the *http_link* doesn't ban me)

"I wash my cantalope with soap and water before I cut into it. Seems to me that the exterior texture of a cantalope would be prime breeding ground for trouble. With smooth melons, I simply rinse them before cutting."

Over a decade ago, I'd wash my produce with that lemon/orange spray stuff, but I found the most effective cleaning method was simply dish soap and water, and a used/worn scotchbrite pad to scrub the surfaces (sponges are worthless mold magnets - condition scotchbrite pads by wearing them down first!). Works great for apples/carrots (no need to peel them).

It's so unfortunate the corporate food manufacturers are willing to cut every last corner, in an effort to reduce their cost/pound by a mere 1/4 cent. Because, in the end, they have the facilities to utilize the minimal water/power necessary, to result in the maximally "clean" product.

I'm not so big on meat, and limit it to a little fish, chicken, eggs and dairy products. I do steer towards organic(cage free/free range), non-hormonal and local, where possible (price isn't really an object to me - over $3/dozen for eggs, etc). I've been seriously wanting to raise my own chickens here, but still not legal (it's legal if I move ~10 miles closer/into metro Portland area). Local dairy farmers have gotten screwed for not homogenizing milk, resulting in dumping tons of gallons - that's the story these daze, I guess (USDA w00t!!!)...

LOL, I think the admin is here - I got an instant single-poast 403 ban, for the following poast (links removed - they are links to JHK's own page)

-------

"I responded to your response already"

Heh! I did not poast that poast twice (see, I can do it too!)

This is the message I was talking about, that you never replied to (Is this going to work? Drumroll, plz...):
#comment-71552

And this doesn't count as a reply to my concerns, IMHO:
#comment-71607

I believe Confusionism nailed it on the head, when he talked about the sociopath's hard-wiring:
#comment-71560

I used to believe, and dream, like you, when I was a child, that we were all equals, and more-or-less the same. I got along with everyone I met, and anyone I knew - age, race, sex was no barrier. However, I was in a microcosm of the *99%*.

There were never any of those 1% (0.01%) sociopaths anywhere *near* my circle of influence. They've done what they've done, they will continue to do what they do. They are the penultimate bullshit/scam artists/politicians - everyone is their best friend, as long as *they* need a favor. These are the folks who believe all means lead to their ends. They have never, nor will they ever, reflect on potential pain/anguish they might have caused some insignificant *cog in the wheel* of their *success*...

Wowzers, 11.8K dow? I'm expecting 10.5K *reel* soon. Yo Sokah! I just got my property tax bill in the mail today - $2.5K (I'm cringing deep inside)...

ozone replied:
"Ix, Thanks for the links."

I originally gave credit to san fran mom (jose!) - I'm afraid it whuz actually wagelaborer (I think, gnuna search for them, as long as this proxy lasts)...

Zoinks! (just because!)

Q asked me to pass along the fact that he has been 403'd again, and is irritated, and may not come back. This could be the end of proper English as we know it.

I think the idea of "clean" food is way over-rated. People who keep their bodies very clean often end up with auto-immune problems, and I suspect we see vegetable corrolaries all the time, whether we know it or not.

It's an unpopular position, but my family gathers its immunity the old fashioned way: via exposure. We gave our daughter chicken pox when she was quite young, intentionally, so that she could get it over with before she got any older, and better at scratching. Made some really cool friends that way. The ones with the chicken pox on offer. All 3 of their boys had it, and its severity increased noticeably with age. Our toddling daughter contracted it right on schedule, and her unadulterated immune system beat the snot out of those pox in short order.

We spent this past week camping and riding horses in the foothills of the Missouri Ozarks, and my step-mother commented on how impressed she was that we allowed our children to play in the dirt and even wear some of it without freaking out. My son picks his pacifier up off the ground and pops it in his mouth, no gasp at all from us.

We get sick from time to time, just like anyone else, but we allow our bodies to do what they do best, which is rest and recover, instead of "fighting back" with drugs and a deep-seated need to soldier on. Rest, dear lord, rest when you're sick. Allow your body to acquire its own natural immunity. We Americans treat our bodies the same way we treat our crop fields, like a war zone. It's unnatural. Eat a little dirt now and then. It's good for you.

Just my .02 Hope all is well on the left coast.

SanJosemom1 said, "This whole cantalope thing is crazy. I wash my cantalope with soap and water before I cut into it."

Its the knife you have to wash. Even then, a lethal amount of Listeria would probably have to be cultured, say at room temperature under plastic, for a few hours. Even 3-4 days in the refrigerator.


"Rest, dear lord, rest when you're sick. Allow your body to acquire its own natural immunity. We Americans treat our bodies the same way we treat our crop fields, like a war zone. It's unnatural. Eat a little dirt now and then. It's good for you.

Just my .02 Hope all is well on the left coast."

Youch! you had me until "its good for you".

A risk is a risk is a risk and for your advice I say tsk, tsk.

Babies do not have the benefit to ascertaining risk (and apparently us adults don't have an easy time of it). And no way to learn that skill before ingesting a fatal amount of dirt.

The short list of things in dirt would change anyones mind.

Eating dirt is a huge taboo, maybe because its anti-evolutionary to eat dirt (or let your offspring eat it).

A reasonable amount of dirt remains on even washed vegetables, and that is considered safe. Straight dirt, depending on factors, could harbor billions of bacterial, fungal, and eukaryotic cellularia, much unknown to science. Not to mention the parasitic helminths, the burrowing flesh worms...

Me Think everyone got a 403 ban today. How sad? Too damned bad.

I used to eat rocks as a kid - mostly just carried them in my mouth, like a squirrel. I believe one time, I accidentally swallowed something toxic (costume jewelry of some sort, lead/heavy metals), and it made me deathly ill.

My old dog, and my new dog, were/are always eating soil - even when I fed/feed them the highest quality dog food available, and gave them plenty of high quality treats. Hell, my new dog used to eat his own crap (and any other crap), for quite a while (rescue dog, now just picks them up and carries them to the porch).

However, I find it quite absurd, that an, "early, slow exposure" to radiation/carcinogenic hydrocarbons/heavy metals, is in any way going to build up resistance. But you never know, maybe that's the only pathway to becoming the sky-human-space-race. A mere week or two outside the Van Allen belts will make a humans into guaranteed cancer patients (trip to Mars, anyone?).

And, cosmic rays/solar radiation in "outer space" require lead attenuation - inches of it. Or, gravitational wells/magnetic fields that are way beyond our technology. Even a black hole scatters/boils some of those particles back out.

Is anyone out there *not* 403, or proxy-lacking? (crickets chirping)

(OMFFFG It took about 10 poasts and 3 403's to get that 1 message through, as 5 different poasts!!!)

Yes, indeed - I think I (drumroll, plz) crashed this server (to 403 ban everyone else) due to self-referencing links!!! That's what those #comment-numbers were (I deleted the link portion from the front, and then it poasted fine).

No one else can read this, or poast - correct? I thought *SO*. Good "admin"... I'm still not too sure this wasn't an "external force" shutting down the board...

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(Thanksgiving) down anorak,cheap Canada Goose Men,1 (down covering,1) filling packing covering,1 of down in huge, annular,1 shape. General YaRong quantity down a lot more than half of which, in the identical time could be mixed some tiny feathers, and will YaRong apple-pie,1, the heat disinfection, fill in immediately afterwards,1 clothes down is....... Warmth retention property is excellent. Down Numerous of the association,1 in their areas for algid,1, but aswell,1 for the polar analysis,1 personnel by the generally acclimated,1.

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Re 403-Forbidden bans:

One can try to get a diff IP address from his/her ISP. Some hints here:
http://aruljohn.com/info/changeipcomcast/

Basically, the IPs are given out dynamically (ie, one gets the next one available at the time), but your system requests a 'lease' extension when half of the lease has expired. If you turn off the first device [like cable modem] downstream from the ISP for at least several minutes, chances are someone else will get your current IP and you'll get another when you power up again. (You may need to reboot, etc.)

Yep! (banned)
I think you may be right that the cause is the frequency of postings.
To access the page again, I shut off the webby-deal (I have it set to clear all cookies and temp files when logging off), and shut off the modem for some 10 minutes. Cup o' joe later, and I can at least get on the site to read it.
Let's see if'n this post goes through...

Modem shut-down appears to have worked.
This will make 2 post-toasties... ;o)

Do you [net savvy folks] think it might have something to do with the amount of traffic to the site as well?

ok i see your point about 'how it looks' the thing is where do you draw the line? should everyone be required to wear a helmet in the shower bc you might slip & bang your head? Do we outlaw skydiving, or rollercoasters next? i still have a problem with some faceless bureaucrat (Q?) piling on more and more rules about personal decisions when these same bastards look the other way for somebody rich & powerful who does the same thing- i mean, get a handle on rape and murder before you worry about whether or not i have a seatbelt on...do you see what i mean?

I was trying (unsuccessfully, I guess) to poke fun at myself, more than criticize folks on this forum. My eyes tend to roll when I hear folks of "a certain age" pine for "the good old days", replete with anecdotes of nostalgia. Would that be me? NEVER ;)

Hi IX, since Q is banned, I believe it is post, not Poast (as in roast). speaking of cosmic rays, I am glad this one was not aimed at the earth!
http://spaceweather.com/images2011/22oct11/cme_c2.gif?PHPSESSID=9dntj79kv95lplpbd7m36qj0d0

In the U.S., corporations are now considered to have the same rights as citizens. The first thing the corporations do is offshore jobs to countries (China is an example) that employ people at near slave labor wages). You've heard, no doubt, about the "safety net" Chinese factories use to prevent workers from leaping to their deaths (suicide prevention - China style).

If the playing field were a bit more level, then yes, the majority of citizens would be able to support themselves and their families. At the same time as all of our offshoring activities go on, we have, over the last 50 years or so developed into a culture which believes that everyone is somehow "equal" in intellectual ability. This mantra that everbody needs to go to college is pure idiocy. I've known quite a lot of men and women who have never stepped foot onto a college campus, but many could out manuever me in carpentry, plumbing, electrical work, furniture upholstery, etc.

Even as far back as the '70s, I remember going into an elementary school classroom and being flabbergasted at how kids' desks were arranged into groups facing each other. The result was that their attention was focused on the student across from them or to their immediate right or left, not on the teacher. And the teachers were dumbfounded as to why they had so many more discipline issues! And this continues and has gotten worse to this day!

The meme today seems to be, "Hey honey, let's put a $100K second mortgage out on the McMansion (cause lord knows real estate can only go UP in value), and fund Jr.'s college education. Fact of the matter is 60 or 70 years ago, most students graduating from high school could readily convert fractions into decimals, measure and perhaps build something from woodshop to the nearest 1/32 of an inch. I don't think I'd be going out on too much of limb to say that the majority of college SENIORS would be able to do any of the above, much less properly diagram a sentence or even write a fairly insightful essay today. There I go again! ;)

Hey Jim,
Someone said they lost a post. I too got "under review" or some such thing. I didn't say anything controversial--I was replying to someone about a gardening question. Maybe my post was too boring .... ;>)
Oh well. Going out to plant garlic.

correction to above..."I don't think I'd be going out on too much of limb to say that the majority of college SENIORS would be ^UNable to do any of the above..."

ma am, i literally could not agree more, and re college, you, have described me...i hadn t heard about safety nets but i m not surprised now as to fixing some part of the problem, what do you think of a median worldwide wage, with price controls for basic staples, including whatever form fuels are used, housing, medical &education? wouldn t that at least remove incentives for "out-sourcing", jobs & services, and by default reduce population shifts (read immigration, legal or otherwise)...? i know it wouldn t be easy to either sell the idea or actually implement and acclimate to the structure, but wouldn t it be a good alternative to study and explore? anyone...?

Tripp,

All is well on the left coast. Sometimes when I'm feeling wild and reckless I'll eat an apple after just rubbing it on my shirt!!

Yesterday I spent 4 hours in my totally frivolous garden. Trimming back the ivy on the fence, pruning over-grown shrubs, taking out the mildewed zinnias -- all in all, a fall cleanup and a good workout.

SJmom

What I do see coming is not very pleasant. A quick read of world history shows that when Europe is in turmoil, revolt spreads very quickly. With people becoming increasingly desperate, they turn violent. "When people lose everything, they lose it." Quote is from Gerald Celente. It is at such times when dictators rise to power, promising victory for the oppressed. Gradually people buy into these sentiments out of solidarity. Eventually war breaks out. This is particularly concerning because of the rise in number of countries that have nuclear arsenals.

Our power elite, in their grandiose stupidity, thumbs its collective nose at China and Russia - two of the last remaining strong economic power houses in the 21st century. Sooner rather than later, one or both of these countries will cozy up to Pakistan, placing a noose around Afghanistan and dooming our military men and women there to certain death. And how will the U.S. respond? Why, with our own nuclear arsenals of course.

I'm not sure where the idea came about that a country could win a battle of nuclear warheads against another. For decades after WWII, it seemed there was the general recognition in the world that such a battle must never be fought. MAD, they called it.

I think it all boils down to the fact that the U.S. believes that Christ is on its side and that only the TRUE believers (Christians) will survive the coming nuclear holocaust, when Jesus swoops down from heaven to deliver them to Paradise. Not unlike the misbegotten Muslim belief in the (l9?) virgins awaiting them in the afterlife. What these young men were NOT told is that these virgins are actually 90 plus year old ex Catholic school nuns, each hooked up to colostomy bags, with a grudge and a score to settle.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the world to agree on ANYTHING, much less wage equality - even if that were possible. We're just too greedy.

What about dirt from an organic garden in Fukishima? Is that bad for you too? Or is radiation poisoning in moderation something we need to build up in our bodies? And since my sense of humor doesn't seem to translate too well these days, yes, I'm just kidding!

i must concede most of your points, but when i propose a change that drastic, i really mean by a consensus of the just plain people of the world, most assuredly NOT governments or militaries...i know that seems difficult or even impossible on the face of it; but when it comes right down to it is our survival worth sacrifice or not? when everyone has asked that question of themselves, and answered it, then i guess we can get on with taking back our earth from the selfish bastards...hey, a man can dream, right?!

Brother Charles, I see what you mean, and I think the answer lies in doing what is practical, exercising moderation, and substituting either/or thinking for both/and thinking. Helmets in the shower are impractical but not while riding a bicycle.

We could make it a point to have faces on those who serve the public common weal and have access to the reasons behind creating each particular regulation. There could be scope for certain exceptions granted to laws and regulation that are sensible (and/both). The establishing of safety warnings and regulations would make more sense if we were actually experienceing “being in this together,” rather than fighting against one another for our personal gains, comforts, and convenience.

I read an excellent article in The Progressive mag recently about the life without parole sentence which is gaining popularity in this country (not others) as a strategy for getting rid of the death penalty. The article, by the way made an excellent case against LWP. One point comes to mind, as regards the paradigm that could use some shifting in the area of crime and punishment (what happened to justice?). That pardigm values being tough on crime not smart on crime. Hence, we ignore and justify doing stupid, useless things instead employing our critical thinking and our conscience.

Myrtle says"Fact of the matter is 60 or 70 years ago, most students graduating from high school could readily convert fractions into decimals"
I work with lots of young guys. When I run numbers in my head they look at me like I am a freak of nature. They don't even know their mutiplication tables, poor bastards. .125" = 1/8 waz up wid dat?

I gradjiated in da sebendies, so it waz only about fordy years back, not sexty or sebendy yeres ago as you all stated ;o)

Q must be rolling over in his grave...

oh, and by the way: charlie foxtrot is international radio code for cf, which is short for (wait for it...) clusterfuck...snigger...

"If you turn off the first device [like cable modem] downstream from the ISP for at least several minutes, chances are someone else will get your current IP and you'll get another when you power up again. (You may need to reboot, etc.)"
-ak-

That's what I've been saying for a couple of weeks, ak. Unless, that is, you're on a dedicated IP address because you're on a large server network - like educational/government institutions, larger business networks, etc.

Then you could try "spoofing" a faux IP address - but I've never had to do that, so don't know a whole lot about it.

===================
Basically, I'm just trying to see if a post, will post right now.

Codswallop! Your rhetoric is smothered in fear once again, you reactionary.

When I say "eat a little dirt. It's good for you" I mean scrubbing your food with soap is a waste of time. Any good geophage could show you his bloated stomach and blocked up colon, true, but of course that's not what I'm talking about. If you're eating food that has actual dangerous material hanging about on its surface you're not eating actual food. Just a food-like substance, with a USDA stamp on it most likely.

Even more beneficial than eating a little dirt now and then is digging in it to grow food organically that you eat with a little dirt on it;)

Hope your rheumatoid arthritis isn't acting up too much these days, amigo...

Interesting theories - but I don't think the 403's are related to total number of posts for a particular week or whatever.

Both of my banned screennames (progressorconserve and progresstoconserve) and ALL of my 8-10 total 403 style blocks have been related to -

Trying to FORCE a block of text to post after receiving a "held for review" notification.

That would be OK, except "held for review" never makes any sense, not for ANYTHING that I've ever had "held." And, the the post is gone forever - without any review.

Oh well. I notice fab/toot/lil'jimbo must have been banned again - or else he just gave up for the week.

Comment on, ClusterFuckers!
This place is bound to come back, eventually.
At least if JHK keeps writing his missives.
And keeps the comment thread up and running.

But it sure is lonely without wagelaborer, cash, Q, and a couple of other key operators.

Any of you guys have any success stories about eating right for your blood type?

Living in the conservative rural south, our diet has suffered appreciably in the organic department, and that's probably a big factor in my recently declining fitness, but I've been hearing more and more success stories from people who've been doing this blood type thing. O types like me are supposed to stay away from wheat, sugar, white potatoes, dairy, caffeine, and alcohol (at least at first glance those are the majors).

Could there possibly be a life worth living without these things to eat and drink?

I just had a great smart-alec reply to BJ held for review. True enough, this is pretty frustrating. Especially considering how many important things we all have to do. JHK, you're losing us! (Maybe that's the goal...)

"Hi IX, since Q is banned, I believe it is post, not Poast (as in roast)."

You musta missed my definition of POAST last week {/wink}. Toasty Poasty!!!

"speaking of cosmic rays, I am glad this one was not aimed at the earth!

She's heatin' up!!! I never saw one that big be-4 - "X-20", lulz!

Points well taken. You also did an excellent job in your earlier post of slamming the use of ethnicity as the basis of one's self-esteem, a profoundly foolish idea that is stunningly popular in fashionable American circles.

A follow-up comment that I tried to make about the decline of sexual discreetness and the rise of shallow, exhibitionist raunch got "held for review," i.e., wafted on the gentle breeze of the Ministry of Information pipe network into its eternal home in the Memory Hole. I copied it before posting, but I won't be reposting it as I don't like courting 403 bans.

"What about dirt from an organic garden in Fukishima? Is that bad for you too? Or is radiation poisoning in moderation something we need to build up in our bodies? And since my sense of humor doesn't seem to translate too well these days, yes, I'm just kidding!"

You!!! No, you. *you*!!! (De Niro)

Nope - it whuz *me*. Radioactive cesium is raining on the globe, IN LARGE CHUNKS. All we have are our own personal experiences - why should we believe anyone of us can project beyond that?

"I just had a great smart-alec reply to BJ held for review."

Just remember, reptiles grow from mushrooms!!!

OK, that sounds false, but I got emerald green frogs in my garden, when I grabbed Amanita Muscaria from the local "forest" (actually from apartment building backyards), and dropped the caps in my yard. And it happened 2 years in a row. This year *should* have been the 3-times charm...

We go down the drain - that's the *optimist* in me. More likely, we collect in a cesspool of heavy metal/carcinogenic hydrocarbon/heavy metal *SLUDGE* (scrape it off)...


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湳椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧∾ꀼ⽳灡渾㱳灡渠污湧㴢䕎ⵕ匢⁳瑹汥㴢景湴⵳楺攺‹灴∾㱦潮琠晡捥㴢呩浥猠乥眠副浡渢㸦湢獰㬦湢獰㬦湢獰㬠㰯景湴㸼⽳灡渾㱳灡渠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琻⁦潮琭晡浩汹㨠诤붓㬠浳漭慳捩椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧㬠浳漭桡湳椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧∾鿯벚㰯獰慮㸼獰慮慮朽≅中啓∠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琢㸼景湴⁦慣攽≔業敳⁎敷⁒潭慮∾‰㌱㜭㠳〸㤰㜼扲 㸍਼⽦潮琾㰯獰慮㸼獰慮⁳瑹汥㴢景湴⵳楺攺‹灴㬠景湴ⵦ慭楬示⃥꺋錻獯ⵡ獣楩ⵦ潮琭晡浩汹㨠❔業敳⁎敷⁒潭慮✻獯⵨慮獩ⵦ潮琭晡浩汹㨠❔業敳⁎敷⁒潭慮✢㻨膔㰯獰慮㸼獰慮⁳瑹汥㴢景湴⵳楺攺‹灴∾㱦潮琠晡捥㴢呩浥猠乥眠副浡渢㸠㰯景湴㸼⽳灡渾㱳灡渠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琻⁦潮琭晡浩汹㨠诤붓㬠浳漭慳捩椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧㬠浳漭桡湳椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧∾물⽳灡渾㱳灡渠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琢㸼景湴⁦慣攽≔業敳⁎敷⁒潭慮∾‼⽦潮琾㰯獰慮㸼獰慮⁳瑹汥㴢景湴⵳楺攺‹灴㬠景湴ⵦ慭楬示⃥꺋錻獯ⵡ獣楩ⵦ潮琭晡浩汹㨠❔業敳⁎敷⁒潭慮✻獯⵨慮獩ⵦ潮琭晡浩汹㨠❔業敳⁎敷⁒潭慮✢㻤몺髦꾛裧钟㰯獰慮㸼獰慮慮朽≅中啓∠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琢㸼漺瀾㰯漺瀾㰯獰慮㸼⽰㸍਼瀠捬慳猽≍獯乯牭慬∠獴祬攽≭慲杩渺‰捭‰捭‰灴∾㱳灡渠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琻⁦潮琭晡浩汹㨠诤붓㬠浳漭慳捩椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧㬠浳漭桡湳椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧∾謼⽳灡渾㱳灡渠污湧㴢䕎ⵕ匢⁳瑹汥㴢景湴⵳楺攺‹灴∾㱦潮琠晡捥㴢呩浥猠乥眠副浡渢㸦湢獰㬦湢獰㬦湢獰㬠㰯景湴㸼⽳灡渾㱳灡渠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琻⁦潮琭晡浩汹㨠诤붓㬠浳漭慳捩椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧㬠浳漭桡湳椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧∾뫯벚㰯獰慮㸼獰慮慮朽≅中啓∠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琢㸼景湴⁦慣攽≔業敳⁎敷⁒潭慮∾ㄳ㔸㈷㌴㠰㜠ㄳ㠳㌷ㄲ㐴㠠ㄳ㔸㈷ㄴ㤷㜠ㄵ㠰㌲㜶㐷㜠㱯㩰㸼⽯㩰㸼⽦潮琾㰯獰慮㸼⽰㸍਼瀠捬慳猽≍獯乯牭慬∠獴祬攽≭慲杩渺‰捭‰捭‰灴∾㱳灡渠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琻⁦潮琭晡浩汹㨠诤붓㬠浳漭慳捩椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧㬠浳漭桡湳椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧∾铧뎻㰯獰慮㸼獰慮慮朽≅中啓∠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琢㸼景湴⁦慣攽≔業敳⁎敷⁒潭慮∾兑㰯景湴㸼⽳灡渾㱳灡渠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琻⁦潮琭晡浩汹㨠诤붓㬠浳漭慳捩椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧㬠浳漭桡湳椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧∾騼⽳灡渾㱳灡渠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琢㸼景湴⁦慣攽≔業敳⁎敷⁒潭慮∾‼獰慮慮朽≅中啓∾㔶㠶㔹㔸㠼⽳灡渾㰯景湴㸼⽳灡渾㱳灡渠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琻⁦潮琭晡浩汹㨠诤붓㬠浳漭慳捩椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧㬠浳漭桡湳椭景湴ⵦ慭楬示‧呩浥猠乥眠副浡渧∾裥辯ꗦ辐鯥還该辷诧鎦뫥鮾蟯벉㰯獰慮㸼獰慮慮朽≅中啓∠獴祬攽≦潮琭獩穥㨠㥰琢㸼漺瀾㰯漺瀾㰯獰慮㸼⽰㸍਼瀾蟧ꮠ뫥ꒄ騼愠桲敦㴢桴瑰㨯⼱㌸㌳㜱㈴㐸⹣潭⽡⽣桡湰楮⽦畺桵獨敢敩硩汩支㈰ㄱ⼱〱㐯ㄲ㜲⹨瑭氢㹨瑴瀺⼯ㄳ㠳㌷ㄲ㐴㠮捯洯愯捨慮灩港晵穨畳桥扥楸楬楥⼲〱ㄯ㄰ㄴ⼱㈷㈮桴浬㰯愾㰯瀾

______________________ボ`
│ fish love water
│ water, but love him all the
│ taking a fish shrimp crab `````
│ struggling fish sad The fish swim to the other side of the
│ no breathing difficulties
│ water fish to your eyes wide open before she died at her beloved
│ Water :
ボ│ What I want you to know Is the only


For a complete list of books by James Howard Kunstler and purchase links, click here.

   

     

     

 
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