The Party of Cruelty


     It was amusing to see the Republican party inveigh against health insurance reform as if they were a synod of Presbyterian necromancers girding the nation for a takeover by the spawn of hell.  This was the same gang, by the way, who championed the Medicare Prescription Drug Improvement and Modernization Act of 2003, then regarded as the most reckless giveaway of public funds in human history. Along the way, they enlisted an army of nay-sayers representing everything dark, disgraceful, and ignorant in the American character. If the Republicans keep going this way, they'll end up with something worse than Naziism: a party that hates everything but believes in absolutely nothing.
     The most striking elements of so-called health care in America these days is how cruel and unjust it is, and in taking a stand against reforming it the Republican party appeared to be firmly in support of cruelty and injustice. This would be well within the historical tradition of other religious crusades which turned political -- such as the Spanish Inquisition and the seventeenth century war against witchcraft. Whatever else the Democratic party has stood for in recent history, it has tended to oppose institutional cruelty and injustice, and notice that it has also been the party for keeping religion out of government.
     Now a health care reform act has passed and there's some reason to hope that insurance companies will be prevented from doing things like canceling the coverage of policy-holders who have the impertinence to actually get sick, which has been their main device for revenue enhancement, and we'll see how they cope with the idea that being alive in a treacherous world is the fundamental pre-existing condition.
     I surely don't know if the nation can afford to pay for what this law requires, but then can we really afford to pay for anything? -- including the salaries, retirement benefits, and health insurance of congressmen, not to mention two wars, bailout life support for banks, rising unemployment benefits, shovel-ready stimulus projects, et cetera, blah blah?  Probably not.
     My guess is that the health care "industry" will unravel in the years ahead under the weight of its own hypercomplexity just as all the other hypercomplex systems of normal American life (such as it is) groan and collapse under their own unworkable immensities -- and I speak here of industrial-style farming, Big Box "consumerism," Happy Motoring, too-big-to-fail finance, centralized public education, and the pension racket. All the activities of daily life in this country have poor prospects for continuing in their current form.
     At least this once a workable majority in the government has stood up to the forces of cruelty and injustice, and whatever else happens to us in the course of this long emergency, it will be a good thing if the party of fairness and justice identifies its adversaries for what they are: not "partners in governing," or any such academical-therapeutic bullshit, but enemies of every generous impulse in the national character.
     I hope that Mr. Obama's party can carry this message clearly into the electoral battles ahead, painting the Republican opposition for what it is: a gang of hypocritical, pietistic sadists, seeking pleasure in the suffering of others while pretending to be Christians, devoid of sympathy, empathy, or any inclination to simple human kindness, constant breakers of the Golden Rule, enemies of the common good.  In fact, the current edition of the Republican party has achieved something really memorable in the annals of collective bad intentions: they have managed to create a sense of the public interest whose main goal is the destruction of the public interest.
      This is exactly what the Republican majority on the Supreme Court did earlier this year by deciding that corporations -- which are sociopathic by definition in being answerable only to their shareholders and nothing else -- should enjoy the same full privileges in election campaign contributions as human persons, who are assumed to have obligations, duties, and responsibilities to the common good (and therefore to the public interest). This shameful act by the court majority only underscores the chief defining characteristic of Republicans in their current incarnation: an inability to think. And so, naturally Republicans gravitate toward superstition and the traditional devices of improvident religious authorities -- persecution of the weak, torture, denial of due process, and dogmas designed to spread hatred.
     I hope the American public begins to understand this, because they have been manipulated in their own pain and hardship by these dark forces, and their thrall to the likes of John Boehner, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Rush, Hannity, and the rest of these vicious morons could easily increase as their economic hardships deepen. We're facing a comprehensive contraction of wealth and economy that is going to challenge every shared virtue in our national soul, and we're not going to meet these difficulties successfully without a sense of mutual obligation and sympathy for each other. The Republican party is just itching to turn a giant thumbscrew on the US public -- that is, before they try to start burning their enemies at the stake.  We understand that the Health Care Reform Act is a first stand against that.


371 Comments

First!

Denial is pervasive in the USA; the establishment is simply unwilling to tell the American people the truth:

http://www.goldsubject.com/why-the-american-government-and-mainstream-media-cannot-tell-americans-the-truth-about-the-economy/

I'd like to believe that the Health Care Bill is a real reform and real progress, but who knows? I guess the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Personally, I would prefer a pure public system.


This is not true universal health care, many people are still excluded. In any real solution, citizens should not have to even know what medical insurance is.

As for cost, here in Canada, health care actually costs less than in the US, per capita. This should be obvious, you are eliminating the middleman, which reduces costs. All this talk about health care being too expensive is a load of bull. Hell, Cuba provides better health care than the US, and they are a very poor country.

I saw late last night that the Health Care Bill passed, and was extraordinarily unaffected. It doesn't matter. When we live a life of exponents, all this legislation amounts to is another input of the equation. No surprises there.

We haven't really paid for anything in years, so what does another layer do except solidify the concrete shoes before we take a dive into the Hudson River?


One last thought: this isn't really a health care plan more than a health insurance mandate plan. Not the same thing. I won't claim to be an expert because, like most who passed it, I didn't read the whole 2500+ pages.

Good luck, All.

I heard from a local doctor yesterday, who talks about post-carbon health care. It was an amazing thing to hear a mainstream medical professional take the side of nurse practitioners, midwives, traditional Chinese medicine, naturopaths, and other competitors for his job. He's collecting old manuals on how to be an emergency doctor in the bush. He believes that the coming collapse of the financial system will force people to do some prioritizing with unhelpful medical testing, for one thing. From my side, now is a good time to take charge of our health by getting real with what we eat.

Lynn
http://www.10in10diet.com/
Diet for a small footprint and a small grocery bill

Is it me, or is JHK much less interesting when he has a liberal penis in his mouth?

That sense of "mutual obligation and sympathy for each other" is best cultivated and practiced close to home, with actual neighbors. But our national life so often bypasses this as we drive somewhere else - or watch it all on TV.

Local is where we'll work out our problems, on the ground. It is going to be challenging, more than we know, but it will include much bracing reality, new community. It'll at least be real!

http://radicalrelocalization.com/
Since we're going there anyway . . .

Jim: The sensible rats are leaving the ship. The even more sensible rats declined to embark in the first place.

But most of us rats are stuck on board for the long passage to Who Knows Where. We can only protect ourselves as best we can. For those still awake, there are some tips on using the lifeboats at http://www.thenothingstore.com

Damn fine piece of writing.... perhaps your best "Clusterfuck" ever!

A superior retort to the continuing rhetoric of fear emanating from the right. It would be an interesting exercise to examine the impact of peak oil on health care provision, specifically on the cost of delivery, impact on labor costs, materials costs etc. Anybody got any idea out there?

By the way, Cuba's health care system sucks. It looks like what America's system could like like post-peak.

Interesting how the humor of liberals gets more biting, cathartic, and lucid the angrier they get. Conservatives, on the other hand, simply become more vulgar and meaner.

JK can put this week's offering on the mantlepiece as something he can really be proud of.

Wake up Jim; Wake up people. The bill that just passed is virtually identical (I see maybe 25 words that are different) to the "model health care bill" that was written by the AHIP, the insurance company trade association, and submitted to the house and senate leadership in 2009. Think that through, it was written by the insurance companies via their trade association. DING DONG!!! What does that tell you?

Many heads need to be pulled from many asses on this one.

What we have just witnessed is yet another Kabuki theatre presentation wherein the peasant masses are subjected to the cruel hoax that democrats and republics are fundamentally different and, HA !!!, serve different masters. Its all theater for us peasants, so we won't figure out what's really going on, i.e. being tricked into being ass raped by corporations who are supported, defended and protected by both Ds and Rs.

The distraction, confusion, and trickery worked really well this time; they even fooled the likes of James Kunstler. So sad!!!

WAKE UP !!!!

WARDoc

I knew you folks would be reveling in your "historic victory" this morning.

Only thing is, you, Jim, have it all wrong. It is the Dems who are turning "a giant thumbscrew on the US public" and who are already "burning their enemies at the stake".

Apparently you, like most of those who voted for it, either don't know what is in that bill or don't understand its ramifications.

I thank goodness the Republicans stayed away from this garbage. The only fingerprints on this crap are Democrats. When the true "costs" and "benifits" of this fiasco are finally recognized only one party will be responsible.


Also, may I remind everyone of this, James Howard Kunstler wrote on blog titled Winter Mind Games, end of third paragraph, dated March 1, 2010, found here: http://kunstler.com/blog/2010/03/winter-mind-games.html or in the archives on his website.

“I kept wishing that President Obama would reach under the table for a fungo bat every time the miserable Mr. Boehner opened his Midwestern pie-hole to drone out a new lie, and split his fucking head open like a Crenshaw melon …..”

Now can someone please remind me which side it is that is filled with hate and cruelty?

"It's a Long Road Out of Eden"
The Eagles

ShabbaRanks, here's the doctor I spoke to yesterday, with the answer to your question. http://tinyurl.com/y9jkzpf


Pretty good today, JHK, I'm not going to mention you not even getting through the first paragraph without breaking Godwin's Law...

Thanks to whomever here recommended Erich Fromm's Escape From Freedom a few weeks back, worthwhile reading for all residents of the CFN.

All today's GOP (Gun Nuts, Old White Folks, Puritans) needs now is some Corn Pone.

How I miss the party of Nixon. I never thought I'd say that. He was a ruthless bastard and his svengali, Henry Kissinger, was a war criminal, but at least they paired ruthlessness with a tragic and correct view of human intentions and destiny. It took ruthless and pessimistic men to start the EPA, open to China, and bomb North Vietnam back to the negotiating table.

Beware the optimists...they give you theocracy on the right and appeasement on the left. I'm just glad to see the GOP lose something; their evil star has again been on the rise, given Dem-dithering.

I fear for Obama's safety, however; the forces unleashed by the largely harmless Tea-Party loonies are going to bubble up a few McVeighs in times to come. If so, we can thank Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, and other demagogues for whipping any emergent maniacs into violence.

And when the gas prices hit $4 again, all bets are off.

JHK said: "I surely don't know if the nation can afford to pay for what this law requires..."

Is this willful ignorance of the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) scoring? This law will REDUCE THE DEFICIT... it pays for itself through a larger insurance pool and increases in efficiency of health care delivery.

That's why they have a CBO, to make damn sure it pays for itself, does not increase taxes, does not increase the deficit, etc.

In this case the new law actually pays citizens, by closing the doughnut hole, etc.!

rotffl

How many of the 32 million who can't afford health insurance drive big suvs with fat payment books and have big screen tvs in their homes? So now we add a new entitlement to Medicaid and Medicare that we can not currently afford. This reform moves us closer the centrally controlled bureaucracy that Mr. Kunstler typically rails against. What a hypocrite. Your “Long Emergency” will require a lot more personal responsibility, not less.

Here is David Frum's take (he was a speech writer for George W. Bush)

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. [...]

No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the “doughnut hole” and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat. [...]

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.

Your right. It is as predictable as watching Bill Maher. Only Bill cries when someone such as Alec Baldwin catches him with his guard down. The other week it was the ultimate liberal fest. Sean Penn was trying to explain the trouble in Haiti but was so stoned he didn't make any sense whatsoever. Maher would have bashed a conservative or a non-stoner but instead he just pretended they were sitting around the bong saying "heavy man". I am no conservative by any means, but these liberal know-it-alls are just as bad.

From Asoka's 2:19AM post regarding the prior JHK essay:

Linda Zhou, Alice Wei Zhao, Lori Ying, ..etc ...etc .....etc ............ and Namrata Anand.
=====================

I expect Vlad will be quick to note that in this long list of bright kids' names (shortened by me to spare the reader) there is not one Leroy Jones and not one Jose Rodriguez.

Qshtik said: "there is not one Leroy Jones and not one Jose Rodriguez."

And not one John Smith, not one Susan Johnson.

I fear that Wardoc and cowboyjack have it closer to right. I see for me a new government imposed bill I neither want or need and I will be punished if I don't participate. It was this sort of government imposition I recall that led to the first revolution. My ancestors fought in that one and I'll be damned if it doesn't look like I'll be throwing down in the one that's right around the corner. I'm pissed about it too.

Kenny

The role for government here was to regulate things like the dropping of sick people or for pre-existing conditions, portability and to open up the marketplace to give more choices and prevent monopolies.

The other choice is a power grab for a large portion of the US economy.

The answer is always B with these scum bags.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thelongemergency/


although i believe our health care system needs reform, i do not think cuba or canada have a better system. i have a pre-existing condition myself and i do not want to wait in line behind someone who has been on welfare for three generations nor someone who just came across the border illegally. the reason for the percieved shortage of care is increasing population. mostly nonproducers

"I will be punished if I don't participate. It was this sort of government imposition I recall that led to the first revolution."

Don't forget to stop by the Dept. of Motor Vehicles on your way to the revolution.

How has DMV gotten away with forcing participation by requiring licenses to drive and forcing people to buy insurance?

You need to chill, Kenny.

Excellent column today. Really hit the nail on the head.

I lost my power last week for four days due to the freak wind storm that blew through New York and New Jersey. I got a small taste of what it might be like in the days ahead. I wrote about it on my blog at http://www.aimlow.com

Great commentary, I just would like to make one point.

Most corporations are in practice not accountible to shareholders but the board of directors who are nothing but insider flunkies for the CEO. By various devices shareholders have been disenfranchised.

Most big shareholder groups like the mutual funds, insurance companies etc. are run by the
same group of insiders. This group of insiders all sit on each others boards and get fat checks to attend a few meetings a year to rubberstamp the CEOs big bonus. Its one big circle jerk and
guess who is getting jerked. Now even the supreme court is in the act with its recent ruling.

Forget financial reform, until this circle is broken (and I wouldnt hold my breath)we are all screwed.

Thanks asoka but I'm not unaware of the other cruel jokes, just trying to stay focused on this one. I'm sure a great many folks, scared of conflict, gave George Washington the advice to chill. Instead, he raised an army and did it his way.

I thought this was a forum about resource scarcity. Apparently, it is another mouthpiece for the Democratic Party and their compassionate hatred for anyone with ideas different than their own.

I can get the same stuff on any cable or broadcast news network, at church, and in my local paper. Why not just shorten the pipeline and have the federal government provide health care directly? There will be two levels of care, of course, one for the economic elite (of both political parties) and one for the rest of us.

Meanwhile, true unemployment and underemployment is 20 percent or more. Where are all the stories about the real suffering going on in this country? Where did the trillion dollar stimulus go? Could it be that big government failed at something?

We are only a few short years away from the breaking of every social contract, from Social Security and Medicare to the notion that "studying hard, going to school, and getting a degree" will actually provide a quality future. Once those contracts are gone, including this new one, each person will be authorized, not entitled, to whatever the federal government deems he or she should have. For most of us over 50, it will be a bleak final few decades. For those 50 and under, it will be a whole new world.

A bright and forward-thinking writer wrote a novel about such a time. I wonder what happened to him?

There will never be enough resources to give all Americans great health care. You should be the first to understand this.
So Republicans are cruel Inquisitors? Perhaps most of the opposition sees the unintended consequences and the folly of idealism. If your arguement isn't rational then demonizing is the next line of action. Please Jim, give us your rational side.

Speaking of “sociopathic by definition” corporations (and their questionable personhood), it should come as no surprise to anyone that this morning’s paper tells us stockholders are now seeking some answers of their own. Toyota is facing class-action lawsuits by shareholders claiming the company misled them. As if it weren’t bad enough to have the CEOs and high management muckymucks of companies raping and pillaging in the name of shareholders, now the shareholders are turning on their own creations. Dr. Frankenstein would be so proud of these rampaging villagers! Is this how “justice” will be meted out in the white-collar world?

Nixon was an asshole but as you say he did have some real accomplishments. He extracted the US from Vietnam. That whole thing seemed like it would never end.

Gee, what kind of insurance do you have anyway? Don't you already have lines to wait in? We had Kaiser in Cal. Waits, appointments to get appointments to see the Dr.
Nothing is going to change, nothing is going to get any better.
Oh, but wait for it: You are now going to be REQUIRED to buy private heatlh insurance.
Um, with what? I could barely afford the health insurance offered by my former employer with him kicking in half. Oh, wait, you'll get some kind of tax credit....yeah, like that will really help.

Anyway, I have left the US and moved to a county that abolished the army and has universal health-care for every citizen & legal, permanent resident. And its cheap, and the lines and wait are no worse than I had to deal with Kaiser in Nor Cal. I will pay less per year than I would have paid per month in Cal. And CR has some of the best trained DR's too.
If only the US could do the same.
Oh, how would that benefit the shareholders? Stupid me, can't cut the shareholders benefits.

P.S. Asoka, left you a reply at the end of last weeks thread.

Jim,

One of your best comments. Thanks for saying this:

"At least this once a workable majority in the government has stood up to the forces of cruelty and injustice, and whatever else happens to us in the course of this long emergency, it will be a good thing if the party of fairness and justice identifies its adversaries for what they are: not "partners in governing," or any such academical-therapeutic bullshit, but enemies of every generous impulse in the national character.
I hope that Mr. Obama's party can carry this message clearly into the electoral battles ahead, painting the Republican opposition for what it is: a gang of hypocritical, pietistic sadists, seeking pleasure in the suffering of others while pretending to be Christians, devoid of sympathy, empathy, or any inclination to simple human kindness, constant breakers of the Golden Rule, enemies of the common good."

If you don't like health care, don't buy it.

Get sick and do us all a favor and go off to some secluded spot and die!

That's what you're asking everyone else to do. Right?

The comparative costs for health care per person per year are: USA $7500, Canada $4800, France $3800, Japan $ 2500. And the health outcomes as measured by longevity, disabilities, birth deaths is worse in the USA than in those countries (in fact 38th in the world!). And the cost in the USA is now going up by $3000 per person thanks to Obama and crew. So we are going to be spending close to $10000 per person for worse results. And we call this success? What would be your definition of a failed policy?

Kenny said: "I'm sure a great many folks, scared of conflict, gave George Washington the advice to chill. Instead, he raised an army and did it his way."

Are you happy with the results?

Jim,

I take no basic issue with your depiction of Republicans on this one. The common thread of their domestic policy for the last eighty some-odd years has been a slavish devotion to the cruelest form of social Darwinism.

But your main argument is self-contradictory. Why would you support a solution which has as its central design feature a consumer mandate which forces 30 million uninsureds into the private market run by "sociopathic" corporate insurers? Aren't the government subsidies necessary to accomplish this just yet another give away to the financial sector?

Do you really think taking the clearly dysfunctional markets for insurance, medical services and prescription drugs and making them larger is the solution? Wall St. evidently likes it, judging by the bump in those industries' stock prices last week.

But as a solution, this seems to follow the maxim supposedly coined by Eisenhower: "If you have a problem too small to solve, make it bigger."

Unfortunately, I don't think any sane person could have looked at the health care system and concluded that its defining characteristic as a problem was that it was too small.

Biggest lie going is that shareholders are the owners of the company. If ownership means anything tangible it means the right of use and possession. So what exactly do shareholders use and possess? IMO nothing except the shares which give shareholders certain rights but nothing like ownership of the company. IMO to talk about ownership of a company is meaningless. The activities of a company can be directed like those of an employee but nobody owns a company any more than anyone owns an employee.

Unless shareholders are being paid big fat dividends I find it hard to figure out what shareholding is all about. Capital gains? Do you really want to let the big swinging Wall Street dicks have at you? In ten years the Dow has gone nowhere, in real terms it's down about 25%, the NASDAQ is down 50%, in real terms even more. The investor is a minnow in a shark tank. Investor money is there to be flenced by Wall Street money men like blubber off a whale.

Here are ten benefits which come online within six months of the President's signature on the health care bill:


1. Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday

2. Children under age 19 may not be excluded for pre-existing conditions

3. No more lifetime or annual caps on coverage

4. Free preventative care for all

5. Adults with pre-existing conditions may buy into a national high-risk pool until the exchanges come online. While these will not be cheap, they’re still better than total exclusion and get some benefit from a wider pool of insureds.

6. Small businesses will be entitled to a tax credit for 2009 and 2010, which could be as much as 50% of what they pay for employees’ health insurance.

7. The “donut hole” closes for Medicare patients, making prescription medications more affordable for seniors.

8. Requirement that all insurers must post their balance sheets on the Internet and fully disclose administrative costs, executive compensation packages, and benefit payments.

9. Authorizes early funding of community health centers in all 50 states (Bernie Sanders’ amendment). Community health centers provide primary, dental and vision services to people in the community, based on a sliding scale for payment according to ability to pay.

10. AND no more rescissions. Effective immediately, you can't lose your insurance because you get sick.

In many communities - half-rural and half-suburb -- community health centers will receive funding to provide health and preventive services to people with no access right now. And that's just one benefit. They're all valuable.

As a physician, I know all too well our system isn't perfect. (and when oh when will big pharma stop those incessant commercials!)My best bud Jaime developed lymphoma last year and part of his treatment leading to complete remission was a proton beam radiation therapy machine. This machine cost one billion dollars. Entrepreneurship got it rolling . Profit motivated its creation. Is there one in GB Canada or Cuba ?? NO. I want less government in every way. Of course who am I ?
Just another Joe pulling the wagon and not riding on it.

You guys watched way too many cowboy and indian movies when you were kids. That's the only thing I figure would cause the romantic but twisted thinking behind the American mindset. Rugged individualism is one thing, but aren't you always going on about being Christian too?

The concepts of the common good, and people looking after each other as described in the Golden Rule, seem to have been lost in the futile pursuit of the American dream.

For people whose only worry is standing in line behind somebody on welfare to get medical care, I say grow the fuck up. Learn to wait your turn, and get over yourself.

Yah, I know, it's only shifting deck chairs on the Titanic, but the passage of this health care bill may just ease the lives of some of your people along the way down.

I promise, as a Canadian, it really isn't that bad to have health care. Honestly.

John Boehner, the Republican leader, said this is going to cause Armageddon...

How long do we have before president Obama signs the bill? We could be in the end days.

What will people do if the world does not come to an end? How will they vote in November? For the guys who falsely predicted Armageddon?

The question I have for people that were fortunate enough, hardworking enough, shrewd enough, or manipulative enough to "get theirs" -- if you don't give a crap about the poor or less fortunate, about minimal needs for housing, food, or health, as fellow Americans, then by God why should they give a crap about what the well-off want? When you have nothing left to lose?

The public welfare system isn't just a safety net for the poor, it is a safety net for the rich as well.

I see too little discussion these days about the basis for a civil society, which is the concept of the common good.

For the last 20 years, we have seen efforts to put government, education, and the rest into a business model. You know, "well if I ran my own business the way the government is run..." blahblahblah. A business model is for business, not for a common good.

I do agree we cannot continue to deficit spend, as Versailles almost bankrupted France and the Parthenon almost bankrupted Athens. There is a lot of corporate welfare that needs to go too.

I agree with many that they should have ripped open the corruption in the government and the health care "industry" (it builds nothing). They should have brought down the costs and THEN opened up health care to more folks. But that would have been fought by their moneyed interests as well.

Everybody's blood is up and so there is not much use in arguing. As they say, you never change a man's mind by arguing with him.

I would like people to examine the concept of the Common Good in civil society again, in education and in the common welfare of one's fellow Americans.

I have ancestors who fought in WWII, in the Civil War, and in the Revolutionary War. I also have Native American ancestors who were here from the Ice Age. We had better try and find some common ground again, as Americans, if we want to keep America as the beautiful idea it was meant to be.

Jim, you used to be such a good writer. What happened? I used to enjoy your writing so much. I even paid money for it. Your Monday morning posts where delicious little capsules of gloom and doom, which I would savor.

Now you seem to have lost your way. Did you just run out of material? Were events unfolding too slowly? What made you jump into the quicksand of partisan politics?

Now you have added your voice to the din, only yours' is even more strident and bombastic than the people you criticize. Maybe you don't even see that. I'm glad we are separated by cyberspace, otherwise I would be wiping your spittle off of my face.

Anyway, thanks for the good things you have done. Hope you find something worth writing about someday.

DeeJones, Maharishi Rushbo said if it passed he's going to Costa Rica... are you ready?

"Many heads need to be pulled from many asses on this one." -W.D.

Nicely put; group-think must go, ya guess?

"What we have just witnessed is yet another Kabuki theatre presentation wherein the peasant masses are subjected to the cruel hoax that democrats and republics are fundamentally different and, HA !!!, serve different masters. Its all theater for us peasants, so we won't figure out what's really going on, i.e. being tricked into being ass raped by corporations who are supported, defended and protected by both Ds and Rs." -W.D.

Yep! I think that "the need to chill" ought to be applied to this specific arena. Think awhile. Know yer f-n' enemy people; otherwise you'll be used, abused, and finally, thrown under the tank treads for the glory of the corn-pone nazis. (I do see a lot of folks leaning in this direction, and it will be a "Darwin Awards" moment for most of them. Sorry, that's really what I see coming, so I would advise doing a bit of research while jumping the turnstile of entrenched prejudice. Tough to do? Sure, but mebbe essential?)

BTW, I don't see today's commentary as applause for the do-nuthin'-dems; more of a skewering of lowest-common-denominator thinking that is the forte of the gop and their supremely foolish constituents. Short-sighted, or willfully ignorant? You decide...

DISCLAIMER: I am not a Republican or a Democrat - please don't interpret my comments as loyalty to one party or another.

I continue to find the eagerness of Democrats to spend other people's money for their own benefit under the banner of "fairness" and "justice" to be comical. I've been affected by the recession, but I don't expect you to pay my bills.

JHK has written volumes about what happens when people act as if there are no consequence for their actions. If you build suburbs and pretend that energy will always be abundant, you get 10 MPG Hummers and homes designed without regard for how much electricity may be required to keep mama cool in August. You get unmaintainable superhighways, and elementary schools with 2000 students, located so far from neighborhoods that nobody can or will walk to them. Now change the discussion to health care, but don't forget about personal consequences.

Today's health mess is not the result of too little insurance, it's the result of too much insurance. Let's not forgot that American health care was not in crisis in the 1950's or any of the years that Jim identifies as the Great American Years prior to WWII. If you got sick, you either took a home remedy, toughed it out, or went to the doctor. If you chose to visit the doctor, you paid the bill in cash or worked out payments with the doc. Going to the doctor was not something you did because you had a headache or a cough. The simpler life that JHK writes about isn't just about walkable communities, it's about personal responsibility, too.

Doctors did not run seventeen tests on you. Abstracting the cost of medical care from the actual patients is why the system is broken. Do you honestly believe that any of us would agree to seventeen tests if we knew that we had to pay the bill? Do you think the docs would run the tests if they thought they wouldn't get paid for them? No consequences has created a giant party for doctors over the last fifty years, and best thing to ever happen to Mercedes-Benz dealers.

Today, a whole generation of people think it's OK to go to the ER because they have a cold. And we don't have the sense to look at them and say, "No, that's not what this place is for. This place is for EMERGENCIES. You're not bleeding, go home." Guaranteeing insurance coverage for all won't help this, it's going to make it worse -- 30 million more people who don't care how much it costs for the health care product.

We don't care how much it costs for an office visit, because we have a $20 copay. We don't care about the cost of the prescriptions, or a night in the hospital, etc. Should you be obligated to pay for my artificial heart, or prosthetic leg? What if I'm already eighty years old? When is the cost simply too much? Are you willing to put a gun to your neighbor's head and demand that they pay for your elderly mother's ICU care? Maybe so.

I saw a doctor a couple of years ago and was given a prescription for a $200 antibiotic. Since I had a medical savings account instead of a modern PPO $20 copay plan, I balked at the price of the prescription. I asked the doctor what was the benefit of the $200 prescription versus the $10 antibiotic that was commonly available. He told me that the $200 drug was the latest technology, and that it was an improvement over the older drug because it could cure my illness in just two days instead of seven days. I told him I'd prefer the $10 drug. I was fine in a few days. The doctor was shocked that I even questioned the cost. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

Health insurance should NOT cover routine expenses. The responsible model is the HSA model. You're covered for catastrophic illness, but you take care of day to day expenses yourself.

These discussions sadly seem to come down to one side calling the other side names. Come on, Jim, you're smarter than that. You know that Republicans are not "worse than Nazism". That's an awfully shrill attempt to shut up an opponent who might be trying to have a discussion based on reason, not emotion. I agree with your vision of a future that's more local, where we grow more local food, and live in closer proximity to our neighbors, but articulating that vision is a long way from compelling someone to make that lifestyle choice.

I live and work in the middle of a small town, and drive less than fifty miles per week. I made that choice because I agree with Jim's vision of the future, and think he's correct about the past. But today the majority of Americans live in the suburbs. That's a "working majority" in JHK's words. Should that majority have the right to compel the rest of us to pay to fill their Hummer's gas tank? I've read your books, Jim, and think I know how you'd answer that call.

Like it or not, there is no constitutionally guaranteed right to health care. I'm not sure why anybody thinks that is cruel or unjust. Our rights come from God, not our government, and while I agree that it's appropriate to keep religion out of government, it's undeniable that the founders established our system to protect individual liberty, not individual health. Sometimes I get sick, but it's not your fault, and I don't expect you to pay for my illness.

There's just no money to pay for all of this, a fact which you identified years ago. The current legislation will simply speed the nation's march toward bankruptcy and default on its national debt. Then the long emergency really begins.

Today's vomit inducing polemic finally convinced me to comment. Suffice it to say that I despise both the Democrats and Republicans right now. Jim said, "We're facing a comprehensive contraction of wealth and economy that is going to challenge every shared virtue in our national soul, and we're not going to meet these difficulties successfully without a sense of mutual obligation and sympathy for each other." Really? And this health care bill is going to fix that? Don't think so. By the way, our family is living the reality that is the "comprehensive contraction of wealth and economy" having gone through 2 layoffs in the past 3 years, a halving of income, and the loss of our home to foreclosure (we took the emotion out of the decision, and decided that the home had become unaffordable as well as a depreciating asset - a no brainer, really). Please, no comments from the peanut gallery about personal responsibility. I am not bitter. Rather, I am breathless.

And, since I'm not feeling very creative today and am pressed for time, I'll just second what Dark Fired Tobacco posted.

Lynn, I've visited your website. We're currently transitioning to a very downscaled and self sufficient existence. And feeling a great sense of relief. Getting ready for that World Made by Hand.

Asoka - point #4 of your post - free preventative care for all. Really? Free?

Jim-

Im confused. For the past several years you have been hammering on the point that the descent into the Long Emergency is going to require a hardening of the national character, acceptance of a less comfortable and amenity filled standard of living, conviction and leadership from political leaders who must be honest with the people about what this country CAN and CANNOT afford as we enter a much less affluent period in our nation's history. Yet in today's CFN, you sing the praises of the Democrats for doing the opposite of all that. How on earth is a massive new entitlement promised by a government that, by your reckoning, is going to become less and less effectual in the coming years, to a nation of people already accustomed to consuming all the goods and services it wants and going recklessly into debt to pay for it, not continuing the the very worst tendencies which have nearly brought our country to economic ruin in the first place? Is not this a clear case of more "something for nothing" for a nation of "over-fed clowns". And on that note, how do you recocile your criticism of Republican callousness and cruelty towards their fellow citizens with your own sneering contempt for a "nation of over-fed clowns"?

If you can't afford auto insurance, you can get rid of your car and stop driving.

If you can't afford this new health insurance....?

It's tough to get a job when "American" corporations have sent much of their manufacturing, engineering, etc. overseas.

I know lots of people would like to be producers if they had a decent job. Flipping burgers and greeting Wal-Mart shoppers doesn't pay much.

...it's not just you. Sad to see such a brilliant mind clouded by partisan politics. Stop drinking the Kool Aid James!

"the Republican opposition ... : a gang of hypocritical, pietistic sadists, seeking pleasure in the suffering of others while pretending to be Christians, devoid of sympathy, empathy, or any inclination to simple human kindness, constant breakers of the Golden Rule, enemies of the common good."
=======================

So, Mr Kunstler, if I interpret correctly, we shouldn't expect that $100 donation to support us in the mid-term elections? --- The Republican National Committee

You're equating Canada and Cuba? HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!. You should get out more often.

I live in Canada. Last year my wife had a laparoscopic right side hemicolectomy because of a circular, indented growth on her ascending colon. High grade dysplasia was what the biopsy revealed but a high risk the growth would become cancerous. So it was treated as cancer.

From date of colonoscopy to date of surgery was 5 weeks. Five days in hospital. High grade dysplasia was the final diagnosis. Total cure.

Fast, high tech, high quality care.

Out of pocket cost to us? Zero dollars.

Beat that.

I agree with a of what you said, Rockaway, and this especially:

"Health insurance should NOT cover routine expenses. The responsible model is the HSA model. You're covered for catastrophic illness, but you take care of day to day expenses yourself."

rockaway,
Thanks for taking the time to articulate your rational comment.

Beautifully written, and on point. A former president described "us and them" this way: They measure our success by how well the richest are doing. We measure how well the neediest of us are doing. This reform is a step toward collective compassion, which is our only hope of taming the violence we will likely suffer in the coming turmoil.

Isn't it lonely to be among the very few who get it because we're not drinking one of the two accepted flavors of Kool-Aid, wardoc? Thanks for being the first commentor in this thread to clearly explain the situation. People on various forums are all perceiving this rancid slab of legislative sausage through the very thick gauze of their respective duckspeak/ doublethink scripts. As Darva Conger of very short-lived "Who Wants To Marry A Millionaire" infamy said in the wake of her "reality-show" debacle, "America is high school and the Internet is the bathroom wall."

Yep, it was written by the health care industry-- note no costs are brought down, they just are guaranteed more paying customers.

The whole thing was plain as day, when Obama took the "single payer" plan off the table (true "socialized medicine" as in Canada etc.) and we were left being told that the "public option" was socialized medicine. Nope. Compare:

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/06/single-payer-vs-public-option.html

In any case, I am utterly broke, and mainly try not to get hurt, and self-doctor things like the flu (learning more herbalism as well as using stuff like Theraflu which helps you get a night's rest).

I just don't have any trust left in any of the parties because they are all bought and paid for. And people like the Tea Partiers, well I understand their frustration, but there seems to be a lack of reasoning ability in that camp.

God Bless America, because we surely need it more than usual.

As it is the USA is undergoing a strange bankruptcy. Instead of government bonds collapsing, they are being kept artificially low while corporate bonds are rising above them!

US government bonds fall below Warren Buffet bonds

This is how the collapse of the government will play out, they will print money to keep a price floor on their bonds, while all other assets will rise in price into the stratosphere.

I watched two hours of Fox News last night and it was most enjoyable two hours of tv watching. Watching those fools cry, whine, moan and have a hissy fit was pure delight.

It was as fun as watching the two months of President Obama angst which occurred on the The Oil Drum and other like-minded oil industry blogs following his election results.

The Republican party really doesn't need to exist any longer. It is already consuming itself with the TEA party and other extremists, racists, warmongers, polluters and fearmongers.

I had to watch Fox News cry while their great cause against progress failed. All their lies and propaganda failed to accomplish its intended task.

America really is in the 21st century now.

As for myself, I only have enough time left to think about beauty:

http://www.flickr.com/dmathew1

Greetings,

Let me see if I can break this down to its simplest level - survival. In order to survive I need water, shelter, food, sanitation and health care.

If only the wealthy, with their FICTIONAL worthless currency can obtain those things then ALL BETS ARE OFF. Either we work together as a society to insure that all of its members are provided for or I'm going to be the first one coming through your door with an assault rifle to take whatever I want when it all falls apart.

You guys are not gonna like the "every man for himself game".

Finally, I should thank the US tax payer for the years of specialized military training. Thanks Uncle Sam!

#4 and #9 look really valuable for folks like me. It has been years since I went to the dentist. And preventative care is the best use of your money.

I do believe the right to not by healthcare has just been taken away from me, under punishment of law. Excuse me for not wanting my fellow Americans to decide what is in my best interest in regards to my own health. Have you seen these people? What the f do they know about being healthy?

Unlike you, I don't want people to go off and die somewhere, even if they do hold different political views about the role of government. I wish people had an effing clue about how to maintain a healthy lifestyle, but they don't, and all the g.d. health insurance in the world is not going to change that.

Fantastic post JHK. It can't help but feel -- confirming, somehow -- to have a writer such as you putting into words the way I've felt for years on end. The party of cruelty, indeed. It's truly sickening.

Well, that was quick. Apparently there are at least a few who are willing to point a gun at their next door neighbor and take what doesn't belong to them.

My advice: take care of your own family, and I'll take care of mine. And if you think you'll scare me with your gun, think twice before coming through my door.

A flurry of news reports abound as President Obama puts on a full court press to pass legislation no one really wants except the President and those who have been bribed.

Pay back time is November.


end of message

Nobody's mentioned the student loan legislation that was tagged onto this health care bill. For many young people, that may prove to be as important as the provisions of the main bill in terms of not "crippling" them with debt from the moment they walk out of school till the day they're dead.

Stress, depression, hopelessness and other sorts of spiritual sickness are epidemic in 20-30-somethings in this country. No doubt that will continue, generally, but alleviating the studentloan sickness may actually help a few -- who knows?

Yep, you tell the truth Nickelthrower. We need to help each other out as a society. It's been every man for himself -in an economic sense- for many years. Witness Wall Street. But they just want a rigged game. If they really want that "every man for himself" paradigm, well they are in for a rough time. It's people with families, war buddies, close friends that will weather that storm best.

...you can stop breathing.

Hmmm. . . getting more party political.

I find it difficult to differentiate bewtween the two US parties, once they are in power. I see Obama as a great advertising campaign: a guy from nowhere who looked great and had the right ethnicity, so the world would trust him.

so. . . I find the healthcare summit to be a political act, a way of painting the opposition into a corner.

The end result is not viable. There's no money for it. It changes nothing about the system.

It all reminds me of Nixon's "guns and butter" spending - social reforms at the same time as the Vietnam war. That lead to hyperinflation, I seem to recall.

Stilba, what about the student loan legislation? What does it say?

yeah, I thought as much

See, that's why we need the common good. People's hackles are already up. Neighbors need to learn about what it means to be a good neighbor. Band together, provide for the common defense. To counter Pogo: We have met the enemy and it is NOT us.

I agree.

It's the comments from the hysterical "give-me-what-I-want-or-I'll-break-down-your-door" crowd that are odds with the idea of working toward the common good.

The common good requires that citizens take personal responsibility. Sitting back and demanding personal benefits in the name of "the common good" is a recipe for social unrest.

Even a cursory look at the legislative trail of the last several decades shows that the complexity of the cost and administrative aspects derived from federal actions. Now, the very group which caused the problems has claimed the ability to solve them.

Hightly doubtful.

In my dozen or so years of browsing around the Internet, I've seen far more vituperation from the liberal side of the spectrum than from the conservative. Far more emotion...

The yowling about the evil insurance companies is wryly amusing. Investments in such as Ronald McDonald's gutburger chain have been more remunerative than in health insurance corporations. After-tax profits around five percent are not exactly indicative of any rip-off as to unjustified income.

'Rat

It is good to see a discussion of the Repugnants that brings to the fore the issues of compassion and morality. It is so true that these people constantly show contempt for the Golden Rule. Since that rule lies at the center of all morality, the Repugnants' disregard of it indicates that they are an essentially immoral, if not in fact amoral, constituency, and that their Christian aspirations are fraudulent.

Regarding the attribution of personhood to corporations by our legal code, a question arises concerning the real import of that attribution in the life of this nation: if corporations are really persons, why is it that corporations do not actually run for political office, in contrast to throwing moneys behind individuals of flesh and blood?

Why doesn't Halliburton run for president? Clearly, we would scoff or be outraged at such an occurrence. Why is that? Because, I believe, there is a deeply immoral dimension to that attribution.


I posted yesterday on the college bill passed last night:

During Obama's campaign many asked: What does change mean?" They said Obama gives good speeches but has no experience as an executive. They said the USA would be attacked within his first year.

They were wrong all all counts. Now we know what change looks like: two pieces of historic legislation were passed Sunday:

The bill rewrites a four-decades-old student loan program, eliminating its reliance on private lenders and uses the savings to direct $36 billion in new spending to Pell Grants for students in financial need.

In the biggest piece of education legislation since No Child Left Behind nine years ago, the bill would also provide more than $4 billion to historically black colleges and community colleges.

The bill was paired with the expedited health care bill, a marriage of convenience that helped the prospects of each measure. That combined measure passed 220-211.

"We are pairing this historic health reform with another opportunity that cannot be missed – the chance to make the single largest investment in college affordability ever at no cost to the taxpayers," said Rep. George Miller, D-Calif.

Addendum: "...the Medicare Prescription Drug Improvement and Modernization Act of 2003, then regarded as the most reckless giveaway of public funds in human history."

Funniest thing: This idea was trotted out by Al Gore in a fund-raiser in Tallahassee, Florida, during his campaign for the presidency in 2000.

IOW, Bush, as a Statist, persuaded the Congress to enact a Democrat's proposal.

Question: Has Obama or any other Democrat proposed to repeal this "reckless giveaway"?

Ain't hypocrisy fun?

'Rat

Cruelty Jim? Cruelty is being a member of the PARTY OF DEATH like Pelosi, Obama and "Kateseconomy".

Go ahead- let the government just reach into your womb and rip the life right out of you to pay the health insurance masters who just gained about 50 million more slaves. Will it be your coveted CHOICE when the IRS comes knocking on your door looking for your mandated "health insurance" payment, while your "health care" services resemble a trip to the DMV?

Keep ranting Jim, as you bow down to the masters who brought us to this dark day.


"How has DMV gotten away with forcing participation by requiring licenses to drive and forcing people to buy insurance?"

By telling people ignorant of their natural right to locomotion, who were not self-governing, that they were extending them a privilege, which of course they had to pay a fee for and submit to regulation thereof.

It's not just you, Martyr. Sometimes JHK amazes me with his inability to see through the lies. Such an intelligent man, so easily duped! The problem is the belief that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Both parties are our enemies.

I watched Obama and Boehner on Democracy Now this morning.

Obama did what he's been doing for a few months, points out that the insurance industry is a parasite, that it profits off people for years as they pay premiums, and then cuts them when they are injured or ill, the executives are obscenely overpaid, etc., etc., etc. As Kucinich pointed out before they threatened him into submission, if you listen to Obama, you'd think he was for single payer, instead of for forcing 30,000,000 more people into paying tributes to the insurance companies.

Charles Krauthammer nailed it while talking about Afghanistan, "the liberals get the speech, the neocons get the policy."

That could be Obama's Presidential motto. The truly depressing and pathetic thing is that so many liberals fall for it. They seem to be as easily manipulated as the teabaggers.

Sure Boehner was worse. He opposed the bill for what I consider the wrong reasons, and he was very openly hateful.

Go ahead and prefer Obama's soothing words to the Republicans hate filled screeds. But don't think that he's on your side.

Many people have pointed out before that it's all just KY jelly.

And the god bless you and america really pisses me off also. Can Obama give one damn speech without genuflecting to the religious?

You're still being screwed.

if our health care system sucks soooooo bad, why do people fly in from around the planet to be treated. why dont they go to cuba and let those barefoot docs treat them.

So Obama spends his first year saving the economy from massive banking system failure and from the abyss of another big D economic depression with the Investment and Recovery Act of 2009 and the economy is actually growing now. No one has lost a dime of their savings due to bank failures.

Then he passes historic legislation on education and historic legislation on health in 2010.

The only campaign promise he hasn't kept is stopping the war. To the contrary he has expanded the war to Pakistan and he is killing Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders regularly through drone bombings.

Republicans have said "No!" "Liar!" "Kill the Bill" and, failing in that, "Apocalypse!"

To them I say good luck in November on that platform, compared to what Obama has accomplished with the economy, health, education, and war.

Feed my sheep.

gantech: Proton beam machines don't cost a billion but 200 million. There are 34 proton beam facilities worldwide, 7 of them in the US. GB and Canada also have them available. For free.

Other than that 1 case does not a comparison make.

All in all US is globally 38th when it comes to health. That should be the figure you should be worried about: that everybody else in the western world is outliving you, while you pay the highest pricetag.

Notice that all the heady talk about policy, programs, and fairness comes from the crowd who wants somebody else to pay for it all.

Lemme see if I have this right: the anti-Religion crowd wants to legislate Christ's commands into statute? Just don't mention from where the command came, because that would be against the separation of -- well, you know.

I believe that Jesus' "do unto others" command (Matt 7:12) is not only wise, but the word of God. It, however, is a personal command. I can't make you do it, and I wouldn't try.

Here's the difference. If I sin and fail to abide by Jesus' command, but repent, I am forgiven -- instantly and completely. Government has no such authority over you or me.

How'd that "millionaires" tax work out for all the states that imposed it last year? They can't seem to figure out why their tax scheme backfired and there are so many fewer millionaires in New York and Maryland this year. I have a pretty good idea why.

Details are sparse, but it sounds promising: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/03/22-0

As the Republicans hate it, I can only assume the best.

Tell me something you brain washed little republican,FOS,morons.What has health care got to do with your job,or whether you have one or not?
It is high time to scrap once and for all the criminal inventions foisted upon the American public by these unsupervised corporate criminals and our intimidated shyster congress.

Obama IS for single payer. This is just step #1.

Step two unfolds over the next two years:

Millions of businesses drop insurance coverage for employees because it's cheaper to pay the fine than provide the coverage. Doctors and drug stores stop accepting Medicare because they lose money on each transaction. Govt tries more regulation of the doctors and insurance companies to fix the problem. It doesn't fix the problem. Insurance premiums rise much faster than before ObamaCare. Govt nationalizes the whole thing. Single payer is the only option.

You'll get your National US Health Card by 2012. No monthly premiums, total coverage. It's all free, and it will even reduce the deficit!

"You'll get your National US Health Card by 2012. No monthly premiums, total coverage. It's all free, and it will even reduce the deficit!"

Sounds good!

And Obama will be re-elected, you betcha!

Agreed. Employer provided health care has always been a terrible idea. It's the government's fault for making it a tax deductible benefit after WWII. With the unions on board, companies used it as a way to offer more compensation without paying more taxes.

That's what I was referring to in my first post today. Remember, health costs were NOT A PROBLEM for families prior to the introduction of employer provided health insurance. We don't need more insurance, we need to scrap the whole HMO, PPO model and start over.

No Child Left Behind was a horrible bill with a great title.

The lie that going to college will get you a good job is falling apart. Something like 70% of last year's grads had no job when they graduated.

They did, however, have massive student debts.

So what is the solution that the Dems propose?

How about a living wage for all workers, college educated or not? No.

How about free college for those who qualify? No.

How about debt forgiveness for all those college grads working minimum wage? No.

No. The government will now loan money at a lower rate to those deluded enough to slog through college in an attempt to make a better life for themselves than for those who decline to participate in that particular ritual.

Wow. All that and great speeches, too!

Rule number one: All entitlements will be abused - everybody goes for the freebies whether they really need them or not.

Basic principles:
1. For minor health problems, make the individual pay for treatment whenever possible. Too many people spending on granite counter-tops and big screen TVs when they should be saving that money for taking care of their health. Also provides incentive for a healthier lifestyle.
2. Health insurance should be exactly that: An insurance against catastrophic but low probability events. It must not be an entitlement program.

Workable 3-component system:
A. Minor health issues: Patient pay fully out of pocket; total free market, doctors compete as entrepreneurs, strict license policing to ensure quality.
B. Major illnesses: Health insurance; hospitals and doctors may be private or public, patient choice and co-pay options per insurance plan.
C. Social safety net: Public system, doctors and staff on salary, priority is to serve low income group.

Bravo. Remove "health", insert "automobile". Your plan has been working just fine for decades.

Basic principles:
1. For minor repairs and maintenance, make the individual pay for gas, oil changes, tires.
2. Auto insurance should be exactly that: An insurance against catastrophic but low probability event.

Workable 3-component system:
A. Minor repairs: Pay fully out of pocket; total free market, lots of competition for $19 oil changes and $79 brake jobs.
B. Major repairs: Extended warranty coverage is available for a reasonable cost to cover unexpected engine failure.
C. Social safety net: Public buses, drivers and staff on salary, priority to serve low income group.

Plus, the "great reform" of letting people stay on their parents' health insurance longer is BECAUSE they can't find jobs! Or at least jobs with health insurance.

If we had national health care (not health insurance), all kids would be covered, no matter what their age.

And to those who don't think that health care is a right, well, it isn't.

It's a benefit of living in a civilized society, something that people give to each other to make everyone's life better.

Too bad that you prefer to have the very rich continue to gather all of society's wealth to themselves.

The day after Obama signs the bill, can those without health care immediately sign up and get it? What I read and hear indicates that it will be 2013, 2014, 2015 before the bill's major provisions will kick in. Meantime, Big Health Care corporations will have plenty of time to 1)raise premiums, 2)drop clients, 3)design new 'products' that will a)maintain 30% profit margins, b)contain huge deductibles and c)offer very little comprehensive coverage for a huge price, otherwise known as junk insurance. Democrats passed a GOP bill. It does nothing substantive to control commercial health insurance rates, thus preserving the industry. There is no public option. From now until November, we will witness hyperbole from Congress and the White House about how groundbreaking this bill is. And many Obama supporters will shout it from the hilltops. But in fact, we got little, other than an IRS-enforced rule to require everyone to buy health care from the commercial marketplace so as not to incur IRS penalties such as wage garnishments.

I don't understand your response to my post at all.

1. I did not make any claims about anti-religion.

2. The Golden Rule is an ethical maxim, not a religious one (it says nothing about a divinity), although it is of course present in most religious teachings owing to the fact that religions are ethically oriented and contain moral codes of conduct.

3. I am not aware of anyone's having proposed that the Golden Rule become part of the legal code of the United States. I certainly said no such thing in my post.

4. The Golden Rule will never be enriched in a paragraph law, and it will never be so because of its generality. It is not enforceable by, say, the police.

5. The Golden Rule does not need to be enforced by a law enforcement agency: the behavior of individuals towards each other takes care of that, in the long run, of course.

6. It is in the interest of each individual to abide by the Golden Rule. The Golden Rule acts as a corrective in the interactions of individuals with each other.

7. The Golden Rule as embodied in the consciousness of individuals and communities has a very long memory.

The Canadian health care system is not the great system that you are told. I had severe bowel cramps and went to the emergency at our local hospital in the south of the city. This was the worst pain I had ever had in my life. I live in a city of 480,000 people. I had to wait 4 hours to get into see the only doctor on duty. That is right only one. I spent the 4 hours in severe pain, going to the washroom to throw up at the same time trying to use the toilet. Many times I felt myself getting starry and beginning to pass out. The two things that stand out for me was how people with minor injuries (a cut big toe) got in ahead of me because they were there first and a girl on a stretcher that was brought in by ambulance 3 hours earlier with a severe asthma attack. She was starting to feel better so her family took her home to see their own doctor the next day. I had to wait four and a half months to get a Cat scan. But it was free.

Corrective to my March 22, 2010 2:13 PM post:

In point 4, read 'enshrined' not 'enriched'.

Apologies.

Nice shot!

Open to China? You think that was a good thing? Do you know how many manufacturing jobs that has cost us? It's was a win, win, win, lose situation: the Chinese Goverment won, the Chinese People won, the American Elite won, and the American People lost. And they flooded our market with alot of garbage hurting our Economy from another angle. Seems like Colonialism to me with us as the Colony. Didn't we fight a war to prevent this kind of thing once?

And of course there is the lesser but still serious matter of industrial and military espionage by which they have stolen endless American secrets. What they could't steal, Israel was glad to sell to them - another great ally. With friends like these, who needs enemies. Do we still indend to fight to keep Taiwan "free"? After all this? After we've made China a superpower? I wouldn't put it past them, the Republican Warmongers are really that stupid. After all, we fought the Vietmanese and Koreans while building up Russia who supplied both.

China got Nuclear technology without espionage - back in the 70's when liberal scientists were raving about international brotherhood. A brilliant Chinese student came over and learned everything necessary. He went back and helped start their Nuclear Weapons program. Fake Liberalism (Democrats) is just as dangerous as fake Conservatism (Republicans).

The Answer? America first - and that means tariffs, the builder and bulwark of Nations.

I'll rephrase. I don't believe its correct to suggest that people with different political beliefs that yours (which I don't know) are necessarily at odds with The Golden Rule. You don't know what's in their hearts or how they live their individual lives.

I attempt to live my life by that rule, but am fiercely opposed to any government attempt to compel you to live your life by it.

An interesting thought. If the proceedings were real, shouldn't the stock market reflect that and close sharply lower today in response? And if they don't, I going to incline to believe with you that it was all very fine Kabuki.

How is that different from Noh, btw?

Queen D has found you unworthy and you are now banished from her Kingdom of Costa Rica. Dude, I'm sorry but that's what you get for acting gullible like Charlie Brown.

Spot on, DFT. The great debate over next few years is all about how to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Well Wagelaborer, how right you are! Health care is what a civilized society provides to its own. It is not a right per se. Problem is, we are pretty obviously not a civilized society. We have an underclass of people who've got the "gimmes" and an elite class of kleptomaniacs. The big question is, what can be done about this without a paradigm shift of epic proportions? Maybe a few decades of a grinding "Long Emergency" will do the trick.

Too bad we couldn't have a Congress and Federal government that was stripped of their own health coverage a faced with using the same legislation that has currently been crafted for the rest of the nation.

Too bad all the witty State Government officials couldn't be faced with being stripped of their own health coverage and either accepting the federal version or coming up with a version that all of their citizens as well as they themselves would have to use.

Too, bad human nature is what it is.

Most of these fuckers have ward robes exceeding my own net worth. Representative government?

Yeah right.


I'm not in their class -- not even close -- but how much more is it reasonable to plunder from the producers in our society for the benefit of everybody else? Where do you draw the line? When is it enough? History proves that you can try and take everything from the rich and it will never be enough.

Read Atlas Shrugged.

The Republicans have turned this whole thing into an ideological issue, and never got down to trying to make it more practical, such as promoting the use of common sense co-pays, or deductibles, like most insurance plans.

They seem to have shot themslves int the foor by the exteme rants anmd tantrums. Most notably Johnm Boehner, who seems, on the surface, to be a down to earth person, yesterdday describing the health act approval as "24 hours to Armageddon". How foolish. Adn, then to top it off, the unknown Republican who called Bart Stupak a "baby killer" for working out the anti-abortion presidential executive order with Barrack
Obama.

Why are so many people mesmerized by life expectancy stats? Specifically, the US's supposedly poor showing at #38. As if an exceptionally long life is the end-all and be-all. In fact living too long is one of our greatest problems. If we'd all expire around the biblical "3 score and 10" our Social Security funding problems would be largely solved. The over-population of the earth would slow or reverse. Use of resources (like oil) would diminish. Availability of jobs would improve. The incidence of dementia/Alzheimers would be greatly reduced. Quality of life in the final decade of life would be vastly better (look up suicide rates; they are highest among the elderly). Health care costs would be much lower.

My mother-in-law will be 88 in less than two months. She is in good physical health but her memory is fading fast. A day doesn't go by when she doesn't say "it's no good to get old, it's no good to get old."

I am against using extraordinary means to extend life. I say, if someone (such as Asoka) is in a coma for 30 days it's time to pull the plug.

Re: War Industry. Why did you charge a hundred dollars for every screw? Why didn't you give us "sailors" (the American People) an even break?

Lest we forget it was the Great GOP Tyrant, Richard M Nixon, that wanted universal healthcare back in the days of GOP Terror in the White House. The Democratic White Knight, Ted Kennedy, flawless in character, a masterful driver, and swimmer of Olympic proportions, prevented Tricky Dick from thrusting a GOP Healthcare plan upon us.

"The Golden Rule as embodied in the consciousness of individuals and communities has a very long memory."
====================

I like the version of the Golden Rule as spoken by Elvis Presley in the movie Jail House Rock:
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you only do it first,/B>."

Mr.Kunstler:
The point is this health care program is financial fantasy. WE ARE INSOLVENT. Both republicans and your beloved democrates are lying thieves. I am more leery of the group that preaches how good and virtuous they are looking out for the health of the American peope. Total bullshit. Very sad that we put up with such a sorry low quality lot of political representatives on both sides.

Greetings,

Again, some of you just do not get it so I'll try one more time.

The elite have conjured up a system whereas they get to create the medium of exchange while gaming the system to keep the vast majority of it for themselves. Sadly, I need these little pieces of green paper with numbers written on them to acquire health care. I've managed to get many other necessity of life items through the barter system but, damn, it just doesn't seem to work that well when it comes to health care. Anyway, there just doesn't seem to be enough Monopoly Play Money to go around when it comes to health care.

Now, a lot of Americans are fine with the fact that 20,000+ fellow Americans die each and every year because they do not have enough Monopoly Play Money to give to the people that are already holding the vast majority of the available Monopoly Play Money.

I'll say it one more time for those that are "challenged." Our system is built on Fantasy Money backed by nothing. The people that make the rules have designated themselves as "banker" and are using the Play Money that they create to acquire from us, by force of arms (it is illegal to refuse their play money) our labor and the product of our labor. So, I'm not going to let myself or my family perish because we lack the necessary Monopoly Play Money. Get it? Good.

Next, some tool in a previous post said something along the lines of "your little gun doesn't scare me" kind of crap because he didn't understand what I was trying to say so I'm saying it again.

1. The laws of this land either apply to all of us or to none of us - you can not have it both ways.

2. The resources of this Earth belong to all of its inhabitants. It isn't fair that someone can say "my great great great grandfather planted a flag on that spot so now I, through a series of accidents, get to profit from the wealth it generates".

3. If you choose to not play on the team and work together towards a common good then you do not get the benefit that the team provides - you are on your own. If you choose to be on your own and in your world of ME ME ME ME I GOT MINE then you should not at all be surprised when someone like me comes through your door.

"Why did you charge a hundred dollars for every screw?"
========================

Well, we figured if prostitutes can charge a hundred dollars for every screw why can't we? ;-)

Come on Vlad, I thought you were smart enough not to be sucked into believing one of the greatest myths of all time.

Health Insurance is in no way like car insurance. You don't have to own a car. The same with having a driver's license. It is a privilege, not a right. This is what liberals do. They know what's best for everyone else, and they are willing to steal from others to see their agenda. It is commonly referred to as tyranny. You know not what you do.

Jim, I checked in today expecting to read an essay mocking the passage of the Health Care Reform Bill as a completely futile exercise. Instead, I read as positive an essay from you on the subject that was still consistent with your perspective as I could have ever expected. I found it inspirational. Thank you.

Thank you for the refreshing analysis, brother.

i love the way some the commenters finish there praise of obamacare or single payor with the phrase 'and its all free.' nothing is free. someone is godamn sure paying somehow.

It's clear that you do not believe in individual property rights, and apparently subscribe to some form of collectivism or communism. In that regard, I could not disagree with you more.

Sounds like you're uncomfortable with any one person or company achieving great success. Maybe you should be the one to decide how much I can earn before I have to give the rest away. BTW, you have the same opportunity to achieve great success, although it doesn't sound as though you're equipped to get it done. My what a big gun you have. Very impressive.

Thug mentality. It's sad, but you're not alone. People like you are so dependent on the collective that they fantasize about holding a gun to their neighbor's head to take what their neighbor rightfully has earned or owns. It's nothing more than petty jealousy.

So what are you going to do when you break through your neighbor's door? Take his money? His possessions? It's all been done before and the looters never win. We'll need less non-productive people like you after the coming Depression. Too bad you won't be able to afford to buy ammo for that fancy gun of yours.

Vvlad, are you smoking the KKK KRAC again.

I actually INVITED Asoka to come & help me tar & feather Douch Limpbag. I got the feathers all lined up, and Hugo Chavez has offered some of his finest goo.....

But really, what does it matter anyway. Its all bread & circuses. The Libs can dance a little jig, the Cons can go target shoot, but the only real beneficiaries are the Banksters. They get to pass jail and go straight to the Hamptons in a chauffeured limo-Hummer. No pain, LOTTA gain.

There will be no Congressional investigations, there will be no Justice Dept. investigations, there will be no investigations period.
And all that fraud has been quietly shifted from the private sector to the public. And the only outcries come from the Tea Baggers because they are afraid that they will be getting socialized medicine, while they have been royally screwed by the Big Bad Banksters for TRILLIONS.

Bet those guys are laughing so hard champagne is coming out thier noses.......

What you did was imply that if a Christian is not in favor of the welfare state than s/he is a hypocrite. Don't get me wrong, there is no shortage of vomit worthy hypocrisy in the Republican Party, but a Christian who is not in favor of government forced redistribution of wealth is not automatically a hypocrite. A Christian's duty is to live his life in accordance with the way of Christ, not to force other people to do so.

Well said.

We have made a huge error in this country pushing the idea that every Tom, Dick and Harry (or Sally, Jane and LaToya) needs a college degree. Just as 80 is the new 70, college is the new high school. Our unemployment lines are now filled with useless-degree holders in fine arts, sociology and women's studies -- known collectively in the trade as "underwater basket weaving" -- which, when combined with two bucks, will get you a ride on the subway. As a result there are armies of 20, 30 and 40 somethings groaning under the weight of student loan debt that cannot be paid in a lifetime ... my son among them.

I have no idea of the particulars of the student loan legislation passed yesterday but whatever it's supposed to accomplish I hope it doesn't foster useless degrees for all.

Not that the Dems are much better, though at least their namesake derives from DEMOCRACY and not REPUBLIC, but republicans are fundamentally retarded creatures borne of the magical thinking indicative of religious devotion. These are people who prize faith over reason and hand-select only the bits of critical-thinking based, scientifically grounded fact that support their agenda, which is apparently the wholesale destruction of everything good and just in the universe. Republicans are conservative, and conservatives are fundamentally misguided because they seek to stop change, i.e. halt entropy, the guiding force of existence. (That’s another glaring contradiction: since when have “conservatives” ever conserved anything?) Everything that exists and ever will exist will do so because of change. The current status quo was brought about by change, and these fucking assholes have the unmitigated audacity, the sheer existential hubris to assert that now that THEY exist, the change can stop and everything should stay as it is forever. Their vision of heaven is likewise stagnant and devoid of creativity or good. Republicans, and by extension conservatives, represent a boat anchor around the neck of humanity's common good--forcing the progressive and rational elements of human kind to drag them kicking and screaming into the future. It pains and sickens me that we have to share breathing space on this small planet with people who believe the world is doomed because the bible says so. People who squander their potential on the same tired tools of control that have been used to coerce the masses since homo sapiens inception. Moral absolutist who think the impacted feces they see in front of them living with their heads up their asses is a truth they are not only justified but obligated to impose on everyone. People so proud and protective of their precious ignorance that they resort to covering their ears and yelling when faced with divergent viewpoints. People so mentally and spiritually enfeebled that they would rather die or kill others than face the truth of their transitory lives and inevitable mortality. I no longer burden myself with the question of how a person can be so hopelessly daft that they willingly welcome the social disease known as Western religion into their mind, and simply cheer and applaud as they die and take their obsolete, devastating and insane way of looking at the world with them.

To paraphrase the late George Carlin, "Once you convince two-thirds of the population that there's an invisible man who lives in the sky and watches everything you do, everything else just slides right on by." If I had one wish, it would be for stupidity to cause pain to the stupid instead of to everyone around them. Everyone who has had the words “keep government out of Medicare” cross their lips should be recycled into fertilizer and biodiesel. I’ve never been a violent individual, contrary to the tone of my writing, but I can easily envision myself crushing the undeserving life out of each and every pro-lifer on the planet with my bare hands. Religiosity is cultural gangrene, and for the good of the host organism it should be excised with extreme prejudice. Then again, maybe I’m wrong—maybe the whole of humanity deserves its collective demise. Hell, most of its most promising factions are already extinct. All that’s left are the violent, hyper-hypocritical, megalomaniacal offshoots that stood on the necks and backs of the peaceable, sustainability-minded peoples who used to inhabit nearly every continent on the planet. Maybe all that’s left is one colossally futile circle-jerk as we complete our trip down the tubes. If so, good riddance to us all.

It’s interesting that when the expressions “heaven and earth” and “heaven and hell” are aligned, they equate hell and earth as the same place. To further subvert the language of the enemy, it’s even more interesting that when the expression “god gives and forgives, man gets and forgets” is changed to the more real-world applicable “liberals give and forgive, conservatives get and forget” that liberals equate with divinity. Never mind God. Do you believe in coincidence?

Well now...the mightiest nation on the face of the earth / the only true superpower / the home of the brave / the land of the free / the most expensive military (worth all the rest)/ the bastion of super - hallucinated as well as what passes for real wealth...the land of 100-thousand seat college football stadiums...et all and ad nauseum.
And for some reason (which escapes me momentarily) all this wit, charm, know-how, steadfast righteously progressive self-proclaimed God's chosen land of freedom can't figure out how to attend to its citizens' health?
The charade is just marvelously entertaining.
....would be even more so if it weren't for the tragicomedy of all the real lives flushed into the crapper.

It's a long road back, and maybe it finally started. If not, I get to spend the next decade pondering this little bit of weirdness.....
Some republican was heard to loudly proclaim his concerns about this new, um "health" plan, God forbid, should not in no way serve to kill unborn babies...
Hoo! Your health plan has been killing BORN babies for quite some time now.
(How do fruitbats like that remember how to breathe?)

Well said.
I purchased a splitter for my water spigot today.
American company Gilmour--"made in China"
We need people trained to real work, make real products that are useful.

Check your source. God's chosen land of freedom is Israel. I hear they have universal coverage there.

Yes, the health care plan is a form of collectivism. So is eduation, public roads and bridges, parks, and a lot of aspects of trhe overall transportation system.

But, the fully private alternative is not very appealing, look at the sad progress of Latin Amricva where the elites have successfully managed to starve the public sphere of funding over the years.

Oops, sorry for my bad typing, its been a long day.

Socialize medicine (end of story)!

--Everyone who has had the words “keep government out of Medicare” cross their lips should be recycled into fertilizer and biodiesel.---

You mean that one person, who said it that one time?

Pathetic. Stumping for the democratic party after Obummer sold the nation smucks down the river. JHK the party hack. The only thing worst then a republican is a democrat.

"Kenny said: "I'm sure a great many folks, scared of conflict, gave George Washington the advice to chill. Instead, he raised an army and did it his way."

Are you happy with the results?"

I dunno...If GW had 'chilled", we'd be in Canada.

I’m attempting to take this off topic by introducing the idea of peak oil.

There are two interesting items in the UK press right now.

The first is the UK government’s “new sense of urgency” over peak oil, with ministers meeting earlier today with key industrialists.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/21/peak-oil-summit

The second is an interview with the UK government’s former chief scientist, Sir David King, claiming oil reserves have been massively over estimated for years – by up to one-third - and that demand will likely outstrip supply as soon as 2014.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/7500669/Oil-reserves-exaggerated-by-one-third.html

I’ve written about both in my new peak oil blog. Right now, it’s less than a week old, and I’m trying to write some background pages (what is peak oil, what should I do, etc).

Have a look – you’ll be the first to do so. Possible the only one!

http://peakgeneration.blogspot.com/

A good rant, for sure. First time reader, but I'm struck by the ignorance, misunderstanding, malevolence and outright impersonation evident in so many responses. The price of anonymity, I guess. I'm glad to see that that someone took the faux doc (gantech) to task for misinformation, but the general tenor of the conversation between commentors is pretty pathetic.
Get educated, folks -- it's a complex world out there, and we're not going to get by aping sound bytes spewing from Fox News.

"If the Republicans keep going this way, they'll end up with something worse than Naziism: a party that hates everything but believes in absolutely nothing." - J.H.Kunstler (above)

"Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos." - The Big Lebowski

Has anyone ever noticed that Jim Kunstler and Walter Sobchak never seem to be in the same place at the same time! ;-)

the grass is greener elsewhere. In advertising they sell the 'california system' in sweden and vice versa!

What, did you disapprove of wagelaborers funding ferdinand, who in turn gave the cash to imelda for her 6000 shoes?
cute idea, there may be more $ going into nancy p's plastic surgery and botox than a turd worlder has to spend in years!

I didnt read much of JKs post today, as he started in on the partisanship i stopped reading. thanks for the update.

DID YOU FOLKS GET YR CENSUSES? NO MENTION THERE OF IF ONES A CITIZEN...JUST..are you latino/cuban? argentina? etc.

agreed... and he dislikes female politicians more than male.

New College Graduates To Be Cryogenically Frozen Until Job Market Improves

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-college-graduates-to-be-cryogenically-frozen-u,17034/

OK OK..still that old post contained [ to one who still reads mainstream newspapers...for a laugh]
this gem:
'I wish I could fetch up something like the glowing false authority of Paul Krugman'

ill add the false authority of BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA!!!
Obama will do what he can to give 20? million illegals citizenship and free healthcare..theyll vote dem if they vote..remember the dems just tried to give felons the vote!!!

actually in the 80s the JB Society was warning about the Uns plan for a ' world of shared ideas and technology'

international brotherhood.....yeah right

For the guys who falsely predicted Armageddon?

hey, yr the moron who week after week falsely predicts paradise!

im glad someone here shares history....the things i didnt know.

I wonder how many defenders of that diseased and degenerate club of sociopaths calling itself the Republican Party--the stench of which would make Goldwater vomit were he alive today-- supported the now universally condemned Iraq war which cost almost a trillion dollars but who now screech about the cost of the new health care bill. But that's the Republicans all over: spend money to kill and destroy? Absolutely! Spend to save lives?
Absolutely not!

Wow, my American cousins, I am truly amazed at how vicious and nasty this debate has become. As an Aussie I have enjoyed the quasi socialisation of medicine for around 35 years. It's all good, no-one is bankrupted for requiring medical procedures, our country continues to flourish and we haven't gone all commie on you. I don't understand what part of this you don't get...allowing corporations to run medicine unfettered is a recipe for disaster. Health is NOT I repeat NOT an industry to allow itself to run under pure market forces. I see in this debate of yours the symptoms of greater malaise. The inability to see the correct path when it is right there in front of you. Many prefer to avoid it at all costs as it "looks to good to be true". Many seem to prefer to continue on the ever more dangerous, steep, narrowing donkey trail that has become Americas destiny.

Gantech,
for your information proton therapy (and hence the requisite machinery) is used in the "communist" United Kingdom. Some doctor you must be that can't use the (British invented) internet to check some simple facts. But hell, why let the facts get in the way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

You are new, if you think the average right leaning reader of CFN is a typical Fox News watching automotan. Remember, not every conservative is a Republican, and not everyone who distrusts Obama was/is a Bush humper.

"As a physician, I know all too well our system isn't perfect. (and when oh when will big pharma stop those incessant commercials!)My best bud Jaime developed lymphoma last year and part of his treatment leading to complete remission was a proton beam radiation therapy machine. This machine cost one billion dollars. Entrepreneurship got it rolling . Profit motivated its creation. Is there one in GB Canada or Cuba ?? NO. I want less government in every way. Of course who am I ?
Just another Joe pulling the wagon and not riding on it."


I get where you're going with this. However, if your best bud Jaime didn't have insurance and/or the means to pay for that treatment, he wouldn't be here today.

What makes his life more valuable than another? Just because he has insurance or the funds to pay?

When are we going to stop assigning a dollar value to people's lives? And a sliding scale, at that.

No $ = no value

$ = worth saving

As a physician, I expect more from you. I expect you to want to help your fellow human beings. Period.

lancemfoster replied to comment from asoka | March 22, 2010 11:45 AM | Reply

If you can't afford auto insurance, you can get rid of your car and stop driving.

If you can't afford this new health insurance....?


-------

Are you seriously advocating that? Really?

Don't be silly.

In most places in this country, like it or not, you need a car to get to work. So are you suggesting that people should quit their jobs too? Then they'll have to go on govt assistance.

Think your nonsense through.

(Betcha he'll say to carpool, because that's so practical...)


lancemfoster replied to comment from rockaway | March 22, 2010 11:57 AM | Reply

I agree with a of what you said, Rockaway, and this especially:

"Health insurance should NOT cover routine expenses. The responsible model is the HSA model. You're covered for catastrophic illness, but you take care of day to day expenses yourself."


--------

Here's why that model doesn't work...and it's quite simple.

If people don't have the funds to take care of the day-to-day and preventative care, they let things go, until they turn into much bigger & more expensive problems.

In fact, that's what's happening with our current system.

Asia
I was a member of the JBS during the 70's & 80's. Mostly they were talking about the plans for world government as documented on the pages of Foreign Affairs Quarterly. Second on the list was how the govt, then under Carter was facilitating the outsourcing of American jobs. Their other big rant was the blatent waste and fraud that was going unchecked in almost every federal social program. 30 some years later, the song remains the same. IF FRAUD & WASTE were somehow stopped I think we would see some real cost reductions. If you would like to see an interesting piece on waste checkout: Iraq For Sale. I viewed it on you-tube. IF we could get rid of waste like this we could afford universal healthcare.

Somehow I don't think this new bill, written by the insurance lpbby is what the average American needs. But we'll just have to wait and see.

Good point. Too much name calling and label hanging on here. Fuck the labels, just go with what is right and what will work.

Oh, for crying out loud people. I live in Canada, having moved up here during the Bush administration because I couldn't stomach the idiocies.

Even the supposedly FREE Canadian healthcare system still costs me about $125 a month to insure myself, my wife and my two children. For that, I can walk into any clinic at any time and get health care for an ear infection or a broken bone or cancer surgery if it came to that. When I was living in the states, I was paying nearly $1200 a month on self-insurance for my business (and this a decade ago) and still was looking at up to $300 a month co-pay for the simplest things.

Chances are, most people on this list get their health care from a work plan and don't even see it as a cost; from an employer's standpoint, though, that cost is VERY real. With this passed, that will cut down dramatically on that cost, which means that a larger percentage of your paycheck can actually be retrieved for you. If you're so poor that $120 or so a month is a big issue, there are provisions to cover that.

Yes,the question of paying for this is a big one, but paying for the banks, paying for "the War on Terror", etc., is frankly a far bigger issue, with the difference that a healthy populace is a more productive populace, while spending billions on bombers generally benefits very few.

"... the (British invented) internet ..."
=========================

I didn't know Al Gore was a Brit!

A troubling study came out last week that shows 7 of the 25 richest US counties are now located around Washington D.C. Doesn't look like the recession reached Washington-- while Minesota is down 220,000 jobs, with our State officials looking for temporary fixes to a permanent problem!!

"To further subvert the language... “god gives and forgives, man gets and forgets” is changed to the more real-world applicable “liberals give and forgive, conservatives get and forget” liberals equate with divinity."

You think this is a coincidence?

Social Security is an example of a socialist program that has worked well, except for the fact that the government kept using the money put into it to help balance the budget. When GWBush traveled the country trying to convince people that it should be privatized, there was an impressive lack of support, indicating that most of the country was satisfied with the way it worked. The truth is though, we are going broke and not only SS but pretty much everything is going to fall by the wayside. Once the factory jobs went to China, the middle class (blue collar) was doomed and the prosperity of the Government was doomed because of the diminishing amount of taxes collected. Add in the Finance debacle, crooked Wall St firms like Enron, & it's not hard to see that the party's over. It's just a matter of time. With all the talk about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, it seems that we are also arguing about who was right about all those icebergs when we should be trying to figure how to fit everybody into the lifeboats. For myself, I agree with most of what JHK has said. He has his weaknesses, but I still think he is a man of reason and vision. In a few years we'll be able to look back & see whether he made the right call. I'm betting he did, but only time will tell.

ALL BETS ARE OFF

gas prices hit $4 again
Monopoly Play Money
Fuck the labels

we live a life of exponents

ass raped by corporations
emergency doctor in the bush
liberal penis in his mouth
your best "Clusterfuck" ever!
Many heads need to be pulled from many asses
it's all just KY jelly.
split his fucking head open like a Crenshaw melon
go off to some secluded spot and die!

human nature is what it is
a party that hates everything
but believes in absolutely nothing

In any real solution,
citizens should not have to even know
what medical insurance is.

concrete shoes before we take a dive
into the Hudson River?

delicious little capsules of gloom and doom, which I would savor

Feed my sheep

college is the new high school

"America is high school and the Internet is the bathroom wall."

JHK Suburbanempire CowboyJack Smokyjoe Consultant
Chris Lawrence Freedom Guerrilla Lynn Shwadchuck
martyr13 wardoc pentro Darva Conger Nickelthrower wagelaborer
k-dog budizwiser Qshtik Phil Gannon


PUSH ON. DO GOOD. KEEP SMILING.

"Thanks to whomever here recommended Erich Fromm's Escape From Freedom a few weeks back, worthwhile reading for all residents of the CFN."


That was me. Yes, it's good. Lots of people should read it.

Social Security works well? Really?

I don't have a problem with social welfare, the US Constitution authorizes it. But call it what it is -- welfare. It never has been an investment program, and nobody ever "paid into the system" any more than they paid any other annual federal tax.

Bernie Madoff's clients were all happy and spoke highly of his financial mastery until the illegal scheme collapsed. If you or I tried to sell and manage a private version of Social Security, we'd be carted off to a cell down the hall from Bernie.

Since I've retired from posting at work (real bad habit that) you may not see me around these parts all that much.

Anyways, I see we have another couple crop-dusting teabagger idiots who have decided to enlighten us with such sage philosophy as:

"someone is godamn sure paying somehow"

Yaaaaaaaawn.

I find it funny that all you angry people suddenly found your voice under Obama's administration, given that the last guy launched two basically unprovoked wars, which will ultimately end up costing us trillions of dollars. Billions of dollars to Halliburton. Oh, yeah, and he expanded the gov more than anyone president in history (including the current guy).

Yet mums the word.

Yet god-fucking-forbid anyone try to tinker with the incredibly perfect American health care system and actually try to, you know, help American citizens with tax dollars. I mean pretty soon we'll have dollars spent per American citizen up to the levels we already already have for Israeli citizens.

I mean seriously, some of you people have been sucking down the cable teevee koolaid for so long that you can't even think straight, much less participate in any kind of rational political debate without frothing at the mouth and calling the other side Communists and Nazis.

And, by the way, it makes no fucking sense whatsoever to call Obama, Democrats, etc. Communists and Nazis. The Commies were Far Left and the Nazis were far right. Complete opposite ends of the political spectrum. Pick a fucking coherent line of insult...oh, wait, I should remember who the fuck I'm talking to.

But one thing we can say is that anyone who watches and quotes Fox News as a primary news source and uses "liberal" as some kind of slur word may place themselves on the far end of the Stupid Spectrum.

Nothing to watch on tv so I guess I'll tear this guy apart.

It's clear that you do not believe in individual property rights, and apparently subscribe to some form of collectivism or communism. In that regard, I could not disagree with you more.

Well tool, the last time I checked, our Police, Fire departments, public roads, public parks, military and schools were all part of the collective. You benefit from those don't you?

Sounds like you're uncomfortable with any one person or company achieving great success. Maybe you should be the one to decide how much I can earn before I have to give the rest away. BTW, you have the same opportunity to achieve great success, although it doesn't sound as though you're equipped to get it done. My what a big gun you have. Very impressive.

Huh? Where do you get that? I've owned a number of small companies and have started a new one just in the last year that recycles old military surplus electronics into beautiful microphone preamps that I sell to recording studios. also, my love of firearms was acquired during my time in the military - how many years did you serve?

Thug mentality. It's sad, but you're not alone. People like you are so dependent on the collective that they fantasize about holding a gun to their neighbor's head to take what their neighbor rightfully has earned or owns. It's nothing more than petty jealousy.

Thug mentality? Did Glenn Beck tell you to say that? Yeah, I do not have politicians and the criminal justice system protecting my crimes like Wall Street does and I no longer wear a government issued costume that allows me occupy foreign lands to, you know, spread Democracy.

Tell me what you have "rightfully" earned? Just because you give Monopoly Money to a bank doesn't make your land yours. Who did it belong to before? How was it taken away from them? Dressing yourself up in items made by slave and child labor doesn't make you some kind of hero and I'm not jealous of it.

So what are you going to do when you break through your neighbor's door? Take his money? His possessions? It's all been done before and the looters never win. We'll need less non-productive people like you after the coming Depression. Too bad you won't be able to afford to buy ammo for that fancy gun of yours.

Tool, I'm not interested in "money". What I am interested in is Justice and as long as the game is rigged then there will be no peace until we have justice to include the right to have health care for everyone.

See, we all pitch in so your children (if you have any) are not forced to learn what they need to know in life from you. I can not imagine a worse scenario. Instead, we all pitch in to make sure that never happens. Likewise, we all need to pitch in to make sure that our children do not have to needlessly suffer because their parents are out of work and can not provide health care - it is just that simple.

Sadly, only 3% of our population even has a passport (true!) which means that the vast majority have never been outside of the USA or away from the tentacles of the propaganda machine. If Americans would get out and travel, they would quickly realize that in many cultures the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. If we worked together then we, too, could have a system that served everyone and not just a few individuals cowering in fear in front of their television sets.

If we do not do this then those without will rise up and I will throw my lot in with them because they are in the right.

Fire away!

JHK: "I surely don't know if the nation can afford to pay for what this law requires, but then can we really afford to pay for anything?"

Whatever the Republicans' faults might be, perhaps some Republicans are acting like grown-ups when confronted with the quesion of whether this nation can afford to pay for more expensive things.

My 2010 Social Security statement just arrived. In bold print in the 'Your Estimated Benefits' section was a statement reading, "The law governing benefits may change because, by 2037, the payroll taxes collected will be enough to pay for only about 76% of scheduled benefits."

Medicare and Social Security are both underfunded. Instead of addressing those problems, a third major entitlement program is being passed with rosey assumptions of reducing the federal deficit. If the government cannot pay for all of it's promises, then we will witness some real cruelty.

Yes John Birch has been a better prophet than just about anyone. Interestingly, in their Conspiracy Theory, they have always bent over backwards to avoid pointing to the Jews as having an especially major role in the Illuminati. Has this been appreciated by the Jews? No, they are just called Nazis along with everyone else. All ideologies of Nationalism and Self Determination are just "Nazism" to the Illuminati. Because of the basic stupidity of people, they have been able to get incredible mileage out of this vague term.

I looked up Paranoid Conspiracy Theory.

It says see Vlad Krantz @ kunstler.com ...

Greetings all:

JHK,the bill that was passed is a pro insurance company one. I watched Fox news and the great reporters like Geraldo and all the anti-bill talking heads,NO ONE from the insurance company was presented. We need preventive care education and measures in any new health care bill,BUT having it based on evidenced based medical research, not chanting, dancing, or herbs. WARNING many "alternative" medicine stuff is dangerous, and a huge waste of money. Check out www.quackwatch.com or www.childrenshealthcare.org,or www.Christianway.org. I find with great amusements that Liberals will yell and shout and proudly display evidence of science to support evolution, climate change, evironmental problems,but give them the same evidence for vaccines,and medications and they start yelling corproate/government plots.

"I find with great amusements that Liberals will yell and shout and proudly display evidence of science to support evolution, climate change, evironmental problems,but give them the same evidence for vaccines,and medications and they start yelling corproate/government plots."

Sounds like Jehovah's Witnesses rather than Liberals (with the capital L?).

Well obviously the "you" in my post was generic - I have no idea if you participated in corruption or not. My main motivation was just a good double entendre. But to claim that it never happened seems extreme. It has certainly happened in the rest of American Life - why should the military/industrial complex be different? I have no great knowledge of this I admit, but that's just basic logic. Also I have seen exposes of this on "60 minutes" and other similar shows. If I'm wrong, tell me why.

I have no axe to grind here. It's away from my areas of expertise, namely Fascism and Racial Science. I should be preaching about those. Why aren't I? Is it guilt that I feel? Or just frustration that no one does the work of discovery? I appreciate that you seem to have been reading a little and that Asia took our his copy of The Bell Curve again. But that a pretty slim result. Of course I know I'm asking alot: race is the ultimate taboo in this Culture. Plus it's very difficult for one person to admit to another that they've been all wrong and the other right - even if inwardly they know it.

Basically everyone in the West is crazy except (some) White Nationalists and a few Paleo Conservatives (Paleo meaning old), and a few Old Believers like the Messianic Druid. There's an idea that comes up again and again in the Old Testament: God turns His Face away from His People and "allows" or "lets" them do what they want. What a fearsome punishment - like letting a young child play near a roaring expressway. We shall reap a bitter harvest indeed. It already started decades ago, but the Media has covered up the enormous crimes of the Blacks and Browns. And know that what's to come will make all that seem like a walk on the beach. And yes, the White/Jewish Elite are the greatest criminals of all. Once chaos and race war are here, then they can declare martial law and attain full power with no dissent ever again.

^^^^^

I give you exhibit A.

I've been eagerly reading this blog for about a year now but never commented till now. While I agree the tactics of the insurance companys are atrocious and have to be curtailed, I don't want to be forced by the government to buy something I might not want. It's fine if you do want/need it, but I for one will not be participating. It's interesting that the stock market sold off when Brown won the election in Mass. but then rallied the more likely it became the bill would pass-including today. It's obvious this bill is in the best interests of the Eastern liberal establishment and saddens me to think Mr. Kunstler is supporting the people who have been slowly destroying this country for the last century.

This bill is right out of the socialist playbook. Force people at gunpoint that aren't hurting anyone to go along with some scheme supposedly for the "collective good." Finance it by raising taxes and imposing new taxes on unearned income of "the rich" meaning hard working people who can't afford to move their money offshore and lower the quality of the health care product in the process while exploding the deficit. Remember Mr. Kunstler, by 1990 the cost of Medicare was 7 times the estimate the government gave back in the 60s, so even if this time it's half that -it would still be 3.5 times what Obama is telling us.

This is just the final blow to American freedom and solvency.

The worst CFN I've read thus far, pity.

Well, I have experience with traditional employer-based insurance, Medicaid, and Medicare: they all SUCK. And they all suck for the same reason: the payer is the customer, not the patient. (Government-run Medicaid is the absolute worst because the payments to doctors are so low, it is virtually impossible to find a doctor who will treat you).

I am willing to concede that there must be some form of catastrophic health insurance for all. By catastrophic, I mean that, say your health care runs more than 50-70% of your previous year's income, the insurance picks up the rest. (We can argue later over the exact percentage.) Run by the government or private companies, I don't care. The point is I think our greatest collective fear is that of getting sick and not having enough financial resources to get well. But outside of those rare times, we must become the payer again to ensure we get good care. And just as important, we will learn to devote the money we formerly spent on medical care to real food, grown the traditional way to keep us healthy. This food is about 4x as expensive (esp. animal products) as the heavily subsidized, factory farmed "consumer products" lining the grocery store shelves, but it keeps us healthy.

Personally, I want a doctor who works by him/herself, has no staff arguing with government/insurance companies for payment, spends time with me, admits when he/she doesn't know, and mostly using his/her instincts (not expensive, inaccurate, bogus tests) to diagnose me.

When I received a mass email from Dennis Kucinich--a vociferous opponent of the now passed health care bill--saying he caved, I thought he surrendered to "party loyalty" (and hopefully extracted as much as possible for his district--a "bribe" in return). But he's too cagey for party loyalty. He knows one of two things will happen:
1. The bill gets ruled unconstitutional and we move towards Medicare for all. Why is it unconstitutional? nothing in the Constitution says the government can require you to buy anything from a private company. Only a crazy-right wing court (like the current court) could conclude it does not require a constitutional amendment to make it constitutional.
2. The costs tip the balance in the federal budget, sending it into true default and to lower costs rapidly, the President eviscerates our overseas military and lays most of them off. The American empire ends as rapidly as the soviet empire did to save health care for all.


Actually, the cheapest of cheap options
is SINGLE PAYER but, of course, knee-
jerkers throughout the land scream
"Socialism" in unison.

In other words, the Socialist protections
that politicians and financiers get is okay
but any "Socialist" protections for the
workers who keep this country running
every single day is construed as some
sort of Constitutional blight.

I'm an Independent but I have to say that
if I'm tilted AWAY from any party these
days it's the Republican Party. They
do things like wail about earmarks and
then Shelby of Alabama puts in favors
for Alabama in a bill that has nothing
to do with any state whatsoever.

What a country we've become. On the
Republican side you've got a lot of "I
got mine" bloviators and on the Democratic
side you've got the "Rainbow Coalition"
"everybody-is-the-same" and "let's get
rid of meritocracies" wankers.

It's like choosing death by fire versus
death by drowning. Either way, you're
DEAD.


Eleuthero


Oh no, he's got the "S" word in there
so we're supposed to flinch in horror.

Dude, all the Socialism extant in
America today is squarely lined up so
that the rich and, especially, the
super-rich keep all of their government
largesse while you and I fight for table
scraps.

Try to be less alarmist. The bill, while
a piece of crap, is not the end of the
fucking Republic. Also, try to understand
that passing shit and then trying to turn
it into a silk purse is EXACTLY what the
Beltway is all about.

Both parties practice is with gusto. If
it just protects laid-off people and gets
rid of the "pre-existing ..." nonsense, it's
an okay bill. It ain't gonna blow up the
Constitution or turn America into Stalingrad.


Eleuthero

FYI, the U.S. started proton radiation therapy in 1990, the fifth country to do so. There are about 30 proton therapy machines in the world today, roughly seven of which are in the United States. Both Canada and the UK (England) have had proton therapy machines since 1995 and 1989, respectively.

The earliest country to do proton therapy? The Soviet Union, in 1969. This was followed by Switzerland (1984), Sweden (1989), and England. I'm assuming I don't have to tell you which of these countries also have public health care.

As for Cuba, well, you got me there. But at least there's one more raving right-wing lunatic debunked.

Source: http://ptcog.web.psi.ch/ptcentres.html

Ang, I think you misunderstood my meaning in my posts.

No I am not advocating getting rid of one's car and carpooling. I live in Montana. This isn't NYC or any urban area. Living without a car isn't practical. There is no real public transportation, and there are lots of places you are on your own.

I am just saying if you can't afford auto insurance, you can stop driving. Of course you may lose your job if it is too far to walk or bike. Auto insurance is so expensive that people flipping burgers often don't make enough to afford auto insurance, so they walk or drive without insurance.

Me? I teach a couple classes at a local community college in "useless" fine arts, archaeology, and sociology. It pays the rent some semesters, but not enough this one. I have taught the limit an adjunct can teach every year. They limit the courses I can teach because the union contracts don't allow us to teach more, even if more is needed.

Yeah, some may find those courses "useless," but sociology helps you understand what is going on a little better in the world and people's minds, fine arts helps you find the beauty in everyday things that keeps the despair down a little, and archaeology reminds you that all things pass, including dysfunctional civilizations. I guess some may find those "useless" but my friend who majored in "useful" electrical engineering can't get a job either because those good "useful" jobs have been outsourced to India and China.

I have tried to get a fulltime "real" job for over three years now. I can't even get a bite/interview. It may have something to do with being too old (I will be 50 this year) or the economy or not having my expertise in a "useful" degree like shafting investors or cleaning bedpans.

So I walk, which is good for my fat ass anyways. It balances all that macaroni and cheese, and ramen you have to eat when you can't afford much else.

Your health care system is great if you have a lot of money or gold plated insurance. People that fly in from all over the world have a lot of bucks. People in the US that have neither are fucked.

I agree about useless degrees, mine included (economics). N. America needs to make education much more intense kindergarten to grade 12 and quit mamby pambying.

Seems to me that especially nowadays we have this idea that rote learning is only for zombies and oriental students, that the only education for proper middle class white kids (besides learning how to smile engagingly) is in problem solving and being "creative" ie process. But process needs substance to work on. In other words memorization is good. You come out with knowledge about the world ie you need to know Dublin is the capital of Ireland. I had a boss that asked me if Europe is a country, another asked which coast Newfoundland is on. Once an accounting clerk(community college grad) asked me how to calculate percentages .

So pack a lot more into the years up to grade 12 and make university for only the intellectual elite (ie top 5% of the class).

"But to claim that it never happened seems extreme."
================

I didn't say it never happened but if it did it was probably a Black or Hispanic (who found his way into the Estimating Dept via affirmative action) who, due to IQ issues, moved a decimal 4 spaces to the right in an Excel spreadsheet on a penny screw. Sounds logical, right? ;-)

Had there not been so many anti-working American Regressives in the Congress, we might have seen a real health care reform bill pass months ago. The GOP, ie., Grotesquely Oligarchian Psychopathetics, do not believe in supporting working Americans. They believe that working people should become serfs to the masters of the Regressive Corporate elite that send jobs overseas and suppress wages and benefits.

To have a public option would raise wages, and allow for health care mobility offering workers the ability to move between jobs without fear of losing health care benefits.

The Regressives don't want to see real financial reform, either.
They want to continue their lucrative bribes from the corporate lobbyists, while feeding the elite government funds.

http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

Ah, the old public roads and police dept defense of socialism. Well done -- except for the fact that all of those things are legitimate and appropriate uses of government. Compelling private free men to purchase insurance from corporations is not. I cannot (maybe you can) afford to build a private road to get me across the country, so I'm happy to let the feds and states create a network of roads. The common defense is another great use of our government. I've helped pay for at least my share of the roads and military and maybe your share too, since the US helped themselves to about half my income for the last few years.

Thanks for your service, but I'm not sure it gives you bust-the-door-down privileges in your neighbor's house if he decides he doesn't want to pay for your health insurance. Sounds like you're suffering from a case of PTSD with some anger issues on the side. Heck, you've already got a VA doc to help you deal with those issues. It might be time to get on the waiting list for an appointment.

Congress would be on much more solid constitutional ground if they would have passed a single payer system that was funded from general revenues. One could make the case that it would be promoting the general welfare, which our well-armed friend knows is found in the first sentence of the US Constitution.

Although your degrees may qualify you to educate my children, this tool respectfully declines your kind offer. As far as what I have rightfully earned, I would ask you the same question. I'll answer it for you -- if you own a home, you've earned it. If you bought land underneath that home, it's yours and you're within your rights to put on your costume and use that gun that you're so proud of to defend it. I fully support your property rights. It would be great if you felt the same way toward others.

You're giving the democrats far too much credit. If they had any morally bound courage at all, they would expose the health insurance industry for what it is: a cog in the human commodification racket. The passing of this latest bill of shit is another successful defense of an immoral economic vacuum against an increasingly desperate and disillusioned citizenry. The only thing this bill has accomplished is to insure that even more money will be pumped into a corrupt, profit-driven accounting apparition that never pays back down into the system from which it leeches. The health insurance industry, at its core, is a festering sore eating at the soul of America. Any attempts to justify its existence are blatant assaults upon the millions caught in its greedy snares. Contrary to popular beliefs and wishes on Capital Hill, not everyone is so woefully dumb as to not notice they're being further fleeced by career politicians feigning interest in the well being of the majority of their constituents at the behest of the corporate vampire perched high atop a heap of undulating national debt.

Disappointed to see JHK descend into the mire of partisan politics.

The perspective that he has helped me achieve as a member of of the Clusterfuck Nation/Long Emergency Group is to understand that the forces of hypotrophic complexity being implemented by both the forces of the Left and Right are tearing our civilization to pieces.

This Healthcare Reform only accelerates the hypotrophic complex that is at the core of our looming crisis.

Neither the existing power structure of the Democratic/ Republic bi-polar dysfunction is equipped to incorporate the "small is beautiful" relocalization of our economies that will help us cope with the transition.

There is no virtue in this bill. It gives those in pain false hope and only further alienates those trying to hold on to their delusional prosperity and security of coverage.

I've noticed a trend of late in your musings, JHK. One, you make a lot of inane generalizations. You should know better. Two, you seem to think that religion is synonymous with stupidity. If that is so, then I suppose that most of the world is stupid. And if that is so, what does it say about all of us? Just a bunch of "evolved" stupids bouncing around the meaningless universe. I'm sorry, but that is both a boorish and depressing world view. Use your imagination a bit. Get beyond your hatred of what you seem to think does not exist. If God does not exist then from whence all the angst? And if he does exist then I suppose we should listen to Him, no? Or do you hate religion because you don't want to believe it? I think you are selling yourself short. Investigate some more. It's for your own good.

Now as for these bastard republicans. I agree. But what you fail to see is that their democratic colleagues are bastards all the same. Do you really believe they are any different? Come on. It's so ridiculously obvious. They are all their for power, money, stature, etc. Both sides of the aisle see the rest of us as pawns to be manipulated to get what they want. And your favorite guy, Obama, is leading the pack. If you can find where he is any different than W then show me where.

But listen, truly thought provoking writers have more to say than ranting against a political party by calling them mean. Please. Tell me something I don't already know. Stop falling back on useless generalizations and start using your brain to make insightful comments, not hackneyed stereotypes. You did the same thing a few weeks back with the southerners thing. you can do better. Please try.

Lastly, as for the health care train wreck. We have problems with the cost of health care in this country. That is the problem. The solution is not to hand the problem over to the Feds. They have a long history of screwing up everything that they touch, and making it expensive along the way. Need I cite dozens of examples? This is all about a power grab and absolutely nothing to do with true compassion. Mark my words - this will be a mammoth failure no matter how good the intentions of some.

Sincerely,
Art

Blue Ribbon Comment. Yours should be the last word, Art.

Mr Kunstler, your rant was right on the mark, but perhaps your typewriter ribbon ran out half way through? I was waiting for a good blistering of the Democrats for their venal play-acting part of this giant steaming pile. Is your rant on the Demos coming next week?

This bill is welfare for insurance and drug companies. Of course they acted their part, pissing and moaning, knowing full well they will skim off their fat slice.

I think both the Republicrats and the Democans created this thing so it will fail -- the Rs so when it fails can say "I told you so!" and the Ds so when it fails the Feds have to step in and we get single payer.

Don't assume I'm R or D. I used to favor the Ds when I was young and stupid, but I got over that and the Rs didn't appeal to me (and certainly not now) -- now they all can kiss my hairy ass. The whole lot of them are irrelevant to dealing with the present, much less the future. I refuse to participate -- although I will vote, against every incumbent. That will be my participation: vote against every incumbent, rinse, repeat over and over. I'm going local.

Art sez:
"If God does not exist then from whence all the angst? And if he does exist then I suppose we should listen to Him, no? Or do you hate religion because you don't want to believe it? I think you are selling yourself short. Investigate some more. It's for your own good."

Okay then, through what "vehicle" do we supposedly "listen to Him"? Some books, written by MEN? The Holy Megaphone of The Pederast King (the pope guy)? The ghost of Jerry Falwell? Let us know when ol' Jerry pops by for a chat about the true nature of Hell... I want to hear all about it.

Hating religion, 'cause why? Don't want to believe it? Geez, that's mighty thin, don't you think?
I would imagine it's because this fairy tale thinking might be what gets us to believe in things that DON'T EXIST (like the never-ending creamy nougat center of oil in the earth; thank you, JHK).

Now, what shall we "investigate"? Oh yeah, let's set about to prove that which cannot be proven; always a fun exercise and waste of increasingly valuable time.

...Or perhaps the point is to become so swamped in delusion and cosmic conceit that we won't notice our own onrushing demise. That will get us "closer to Gawd" faster, eh?

Art,
Sorry for the snarkiness there; I'm sure you're quite sincere and well-meaning.
I get a bit grumpy when folks suggest that one of our major problems is not "believing hard enough" or not forwarding enough petitions to an other-worldly being.
I shouldn't take that out on you.
My apologies.

"Okay then, through what "vehicle" do we supposedly "listen to Him"?"

First, get rid of the "supposedly" then, let Him pick the vehicle.

If he shows up in a toyota, don't get in whatever he says.

Your following statement is oversimplified: "Government-run Medicaid is the absolute worst because the payments to doctors are so low, it is virtually impossible to find a doctor who will treat you."

It's not that the payments are low, it's that they're low relative to what they can squeeze from insurance companies. There's a reason health care costs are increasing at such a rapid rate: The guaranteed pool of money (health insurance and entitlements) has created a bubble that those in the health-care business skim as much as they can from.

I'm not saying the insurance companies are the good guys or anything, but it's just like the housing bubble: A bunch of cheap money is floating in the system that people with no skin in the game can utilize, thereby rapidly driving up the prices as money (insurance, entitlements; sub-prime loans) floods the market for a particular product (homes; health care).

The only way to solve our health care woes is single-payer with very, very strict government-enforced price controls.

But our populace is too dumb and our leaders are too corrupt for that to happen.

Not only that, but also the Census does not consider Hispanics a race. Isn't that interesting? So why do they get affirmative action is they're just a darker shade of pale? The Goverment is obviously going to merge their numbers in with our's to obfuscate the dwindling numbers of Whites and the peril we are in. They hope that this will delay panic and the White Empowerment that might follow.

They have already been praciticing a version of this with Hate Crimes: when Hispanics commit a hate crime it goes into the White Statistic but if they are the victim of one they get their own category.

No doubt. I'm glad this health care thing passed. But what a convenient distraction this sideshow that brought a watered-down bill has been for the BANKSTERS who are still riding off into the sunset with loot.

They should have been rounded up and put in a big metal room from the get-go. After that, we should have talked about health care.

Having lived in Australia (from South Africa)for the past 10 years, my experience is that quasi socialised medicine works very well indeed.

Private healthcare is available but the public system is always on offer, no questions asked.

Recently my child suffered a head injury requiring multiple stitches. Ambulance trip covered by private health fund (arrived 5 minutes after the emergency call), Public hospital admission and treatment and drugs all free. Level of care (in a hospital constantly in the news about lack of government funding) excellent, waiting time nil, satisfaction at the treatment 9 out of 10, and to reiterate cost to me nil/nix/nada.

Australia's government debt is negligible (was nil/nix/nada prior to the GFC) despite 35 years of Medicare.

Watching the USA battle over these issues is like watching children squabble, except the reason for the squabble is not some inconsequential toy, rather its people's lives.

Placing the private health funds at the forefront of your system is a major error. Your downtrodden and poor will eventually take up arms (and they are everywhere in your neck of the woods) if you keep treating them like pond scum

USA worries about Osama BL in the mountains of Pakistan, forget him worry about the poor and the hungry in your own country, they will wreak far more damage when they reach their breaking point than OBL could ever hope to.

Your system has worked and is working. Great, but not for very much longer. Your Elite have opened your borders and the Asians and Arabs are pouring in. Now obviously a welfare state with open borders is the very definition of stupidity. I agree that market forces shouldn't be allowed to determine things like Health, but no system cannot withstand open borders. Australia has a fragile ecosystem and is importing .7 percent of its population in a year. Insanity. And are you aware that your Elite have taken to calling Austalia an "Asian Nation"? That's globospeak meaning that you are to be part of an Asian Economic sphere with little or no national sovereignty. To achieve this, they will dissolve your National/Ethnic Character by swamping you with Aliens. Oh and you have been disarmed so you can't do much about it. We are in a much better situation as far as that's concerned.


Well said, Jerry. It complements Jim's
missive very well.

What gets me is how the right wing talk
show circuit constantly talks about the
left wanting "class warfare". Last time
I checked, the filthy kleptocracy in this
country ALREADY committed de facto class
warfare on people who actually do real
stuff for their communities instead of
trading chits on a computer terminal and
skimming profits.

Those same right wing radio bloviators
simply don't want guys like Paulson to
"redistribute" stolen income back to its
rightful owners, the American People.

However, the sad thing I'm witnessing is
that Republicans, with some degree of
success, actually appear to be playing
on the increasing ignorance of the
American electorate.

A friend of mine once said a very astute
thing: "If Americans woke up tomorrow
and realized that they are 99.9% closer
to eating out of garbage cans than they
are to being Donald Trump, politics in
America would change overnight".

Regrettably, the "scam" mentality (i.e.,
"wealth without work" and "something for
nothing") seems to have permanently
infected America in the 1990s and the
infection still persists. And the radio
wingnuts of the right feed directly into
this by referring to it as "taking
advantage of 'opportunities'".

The idea of doing a vocation because it
is a CALLING is going the way of the
buggy whip.


Eleuthero


Vlad Krandz some responses

"Your Elite have opened your borders and the Asians and Arabs are pouring in. Now obviously a welfare state with open borders is the very definition of stupidity. I agree that market forces shouldn't be allowed to determine things like Health, but no system cannot withstand open borders"

Australia's strong economy has come about as a result of our resources boom coupled with immigration.
Asians and Arabs South Africans, Brits etc etc are pouring in, nice cosmopolitan mix. However we do reside in Asia. In say 50 years our average complexions will look a great deal more asian than European just as the USA's complexion will reflect a latino hue. It a fact not a catastrophe, embrace it you can't alter the tide of history. The White South African apartheid government tried and failed creating untold misery.

"Australia has a fragile ecosystem and is importing .7 percent of its population in a year. Insanity."

Agreed this is a problem and needs to be resolved properly.

"And are you aware that your Elite have taken to calling Austalia an "Asian Nation"? That's globospeak meaning that you are to be part of an Asian Economic sphere with little or no national sovereignty."

Only the xenophobic elites.... No national sovereignty???? How do you draw that conclusion? Australia has a well managed immigration policy and decides who comes to Australia. I am one of the greatful beneficiaries of this policy. More immigrants from Asian countries as my neighbours, no problem they are welcome. They want exactly what you want, opportunity, a nice house, schooling for their kids, healthy environment and safe streets. Or as the Americans say: the pursuit of life liberty and happiness or words to that effect.

"To achieve this, they will dissolve your National/Ethnic Character by swamping you with Aliens"
Huh?? the elites are mainly WASP in character!! Why would they want to swamp Australia with Aliens??? sounds a bit paranoid to me

"Oh and you have been disarmed so you can't do much about it"
HUH!!??
Who disarmed us? Spending on the military has gone up massively of late. Read the latest white paper on Australia defence spendingover the next 10 years.

Vlad you need to check your sources Mate!

I don't know how many of have bothered to download and read some of the versions of the "health care" bill, and for the most part it doesn't really matter if you know some of the nut and bolts of it and the "how an why" it had to be thousands of pages to clarify just what a clusterfuck of a mess this society is currently in. Much of the bill goes about using legalease to setup and describe all the fucked up powergrabbing and comporate-based hand outs that make each given entitiy happy with their individual possible outcomes.

As some one who has intimate knowledge of current medical billing and insurance reimburemnet practices I can see that for every economy realized through this legislation there are several more unfathomable clusterfucks produced.

I think this act does portend something. Something completely unrelated to medicine or insurance. I this act portends a new onset of a "status quo" where many more Americans feel ever more disconnected from the Federal governemnt, and many of those ever more disconnected from all forms of government.

This current situation will lead to a new socially recognized civil disobedience enacted and codified by State and local officials as a "signing statement" in much the sameway Bush created a new lawless imperial presidency.

There simply appears to be no evidence of blowback or social civilized balance. This is definitely another step toward the TSHTF.

What's troubling, is that for the grief and grist making the rounds now, should have been garnered two years ago, at Bush, Paulson and Blankfein.

The current Kabuki, is somekind of head game.


The people running most of the businesses, private and publc, are generally fucked up. Why would the healthcare quagmire be any different. Only the outsourcing of white collar jobs has caused concern for American employees. These jerks were sending the jobs overseas thirty years ago but nobody cared other than the machinists and sewing machine operators that were affected. I hold very little hope that the military is being run by competent, non money grubbing citizens. Are we going to be facing the issue of military reform in ten years? And you know who will be writng the legislation, the same dummies who are clueless on healthcare. Maybe they'll outsource the Army to China for debt considerations.

Unbelievable! That JHK has the intellect to posit a semi-cogent theory of coming societal devolution yet still believes in the power of government to make things right by “reforming” our health care system simply boggles the mind. Many things are wrong with our current “sick-care” system, least of all the idea that health care is a “right”. It’s a consumer service that would have declined in price via competition if the government was not already heavily involved. If most people actually took their health seriously by eating real food and engaging in real exercise and limiting their vices, I’d venture that the need for so much health care would decline precipitously. But that would require real thought and real action, two things in short supply in iPod-Nation. Anyway, the idea that Democrats are the party of “caring” and “justice” is completely laughable . Let’s all hold hands and sing Kumbaya. And get out your checkbooks ‘cause big-Daddy government is about to send you a big bill. Make no mistake, the reason we start paying for this “reform” now but no one sees benefit from for 3-4 years, is that big-Daddy needs the cash pronto. This is a power and money grab. Government health care will be the final nail in the coffin of a complex society doomed to collapse. As for the Republicans, they are no more cruel than the Democrats. There’s not much to distinguish one party from the other anymore. Republicans gave up their smaller-government, lower taxes platform a long time ago. But just for the record, Democrats have always been the party of intrusive, ever-expanding, high-tax, wealth-distributing , rights-stealing government. Nothing new under the sun. I guess my government Kook-Aid delivery got lost in the mail. Put down the glass, Jim.

I agree with what JHK has said here. However, sooner or later unfortunately, the " Party of Cruelty" will be back in power and be able to use the ammunition that the Party of stupidity has here provided to turn the thumbscrews on the poor even tighter. It is interesting to note that the day after this thing passed, that health insurance stocks zoomed!

"If God does not exist then from whence all the angst? And if he does exist then I suppose we should listen to Him, no?"

Art when and where does "god" speak? I have never had to ignore "gods" messages since I have never heard any; have you?

"Now as for these bastard republicans. I agree. But what you fail to see is that their democratic colleagues are bastards all the same."

Ya but, our bastard Democrats do sometimes pass bills/laws which assist the "little people" vice the bastard republicans invariably passing bills/laws to keep the wealthy and the ultra wealthy suckling at the massive corporate well-fare teat and fucking the little people.

SNAFU

Yeah, those bastard Democrats were the ones who fought the Republicans and managed to pass Social Security, Medicare, Federal Deposit and Insurance Corporation (FDIC, Minimum Wage, Eight Hour Day, Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA), Head Start, Federal Highway System, Peace Corps, Vista, Medicaid, Retirement Protection, Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Investor Protection (SEC), Job Corps, Equal Pay Act, Unpaid Medical Leave, TVA - (Power Generation and control of chronic flooding), Soil Conservation, Antitrust Legislation, Motor Voter, Unemployment Compensation, GI Bill, Public Broadcasting.

Every one of those programs/laws were initiated by Democratic administrations and were passed despite the objections of most Republicans.

The Democratic Party has a long history of trying to do the most good for the greatest number.

So, the next time someone tells you there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans, you know it is not true and you are being lied to.

Yes, your Elite is mostly White - for now at least. Why are they changing the face of their Nation? To break the Republic. To create a multi-cultural, multi-racial slave state like Brazil, Great Britain, or the United States. They rescinded the ancient Anglo Saxon right to bear arms back in the 90's. Same thing in Britain - causing a vast increase in home break ins by the way. Didn't have that there? Don't worry - you will as the Muslim gangs develop. Are you aware of how they call White girls whores and the growing rate of assaults and rapes by them on White Women? You must have unless your're an ostrich. Or maybe you don't care because you're not White.

The Elite of the World - Bilderbergers, Trilateralists, Council of Foreign Relations, Oxford Circles stared by Rhodes, Skull and Bones, etc mean to create a World Goverment. So to begin with they are creating large economic blocks such as the European Union. North America is in the process of being created - against our wishes. And the Asian one is moving along too - they didn't really consult the people either but Asians are used to not being consulted. Australia may have benefitted but so did we in early stages. Not any more though. Their plan is for there to be only two classes: the rich and the poor. Believe me, your prosperity wont last and you will be broken. And you will end up an overpopulation of disunited minorities - hardly the stuff of which polical change or revolution is made.

You said that the high rate of immigration is a concern because of the fragile ecosystem and should be dealt with. Listen to yourself! There's one way to deal with it - stop it. Don't be mushy and take refugee in platitudes. What other way is there to deal with the situation? And in the middle of a drought too - brilliant.

Finally, look up the United Nations definition of genocide: delibrately changing the population of a Nation fits the definition. The Elite of Australia have betrayed their people and their oaths of office. They should be dealt with hardily.

It's pretty obvious what the Republicans want is to shut down government because they don't believe government is necessary or benefits citizens (well, except for their health care plan, social security benefits, veterans benefits, etc.)

Making good on Sen. John McCain's threat to withhold all Republican cooperation from Democrats in the Senate in retribution for the majority party using reconciliation to pass health care reform, the GOP used the rule that states committees can only meet when the chamber is in session with the unanimous consent of all members. That consent has almost never been withheld -- until now.

Armed Services Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) asked for consent for his panel to operate Wednesday afternoon. He noted, ironically, that his request had the support of McCain.

"There is objection on our side of the aisle and therefore I object," said Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.).

The GOP objection blocked testimony from Admiral Robert Willard, United States Navy Commander of the U.S. Pacific Command; from General Kevin Chilton, United States Air Force, Commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, and from General Walter Sharp, United States Army Commander, U.S. Forces Korea.

Reply to Vlad

Aah Vlad your bigotry which was evident before is so much clearer now "They rescinded the ancient Anglo Saxon right to bear arms back in the 90's"

Vlad in "ancient times" we burned witches at the stake and bore arms. We have moved on a bit now and don't see the need for people to bear arms when we have a well functioning democracy (not perfect) and a pretty good (also not perfect) police force. Most carjackers in this country use the threat of physical violence from theuir fists knives bats or threaten drivers with a syring filled with supposedly HIV infected blood. Most victims lose their car but get away without any injury. In South Africa where all races including Anglo Saxons are allowed to bear arms most carjackers routinely shoot their victims. I know where I want to live. USA's gun crime statistics are staggering as you blithely bear arms. (I'm assuming here that you live in the USA)

I note you didn't try to defend the points in your previous posting which I challenged, Why is that? You do however go on to make new strange and confusing statements.
Here they are with my comments

"Yes, your Elite is mostly White - for now at least. Why are they changing the face of their Nation"

Yes why please tell us Vlad.

"To break the Republic."

We are not a Republic yet our ultimnte head of state is the Queen of England which quite frankly I shudder at. Why would they want to brak the country (I assume you mean country when you use the word republic)

"To create a multi-cultural, multi-racial slave state like Brazil, Great Britain, or the United States."

Slave state to whom? when last I looked despite their various problems they were travelling along quite well without being slaves. Slaves to the consumer society and living above their means yes (not sure about Brazil) but Slaves in the general Yes Massa No Massa I dont think so.

"They rescinded the ancient Anglo Saxon right to bear arms back in the 90's."

Covered that one

":Same thing in Britain - causing a vast increase in home break ins by the way."

Oh really.... I suggest you look up crime statistics in UK
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs09/hosb1109chap2.pdf
You will notice the category "Burglary in a dwelling" has reduced quite dramatically over the past 10 years Go figure!

"Didn't have that there? Don't worry - you will as the Muslim gangs develop. Are you aware of how they call White girls whores and the growing rate of assaults and rapes by them on White Women? You must have unless your're an ostrich."

Yes a recent case highlighted this Muslim anger when a group of muslim young men gangraped a white Australian and referred to her in worse terms than that. The pack leader by the name Bilal Skaf received 53 years in jail reduced to about 40 on appeal and the rest received sentences ranging from 12 to about 35 years. However the cases of white men gangraping women are also well documented and they too have been dealt with.

"Or maybe you don't care because you're not White"
Oh I do care that's why I emigrated to a country with a stable liberal democracy, rule of law,gun control and reasonably compassionate outlook between fellow citizens.
And wait for it here's a surprise for you, I am as white as the driven snow, well perhaps not driven snow but caucasian from the top of my balding head to the tip of my toes.

"The Elite of the World - Bilderbergers, Trilateralists, Council of Foreign Relations, Oxford Circles stared by Rhodes, Skull and Bones, etc mean to create a World Goverment."

Oh here we go again conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory.

"So to begin with they are creating large economic blocks such as the European Union."

Who is they? Economic blcks are a rational attempt to gain influence and preferential economic trading terms between nations.

North America is in the process of being created - against our wishes.

North america already exists you have NAFTA


"And the Asian one is moving along too - they didn't really consult the people either but Asians are used to not being consulted. Australia may have benefitted but so did we in early stages. Not any more though."

Just because you are experiencing hard economic times dont throw the baby out with the bath water.

" Their plan"

Who is the eeeeeevil THEY??

is for there to be only two classes: the rich and the poor. Believe me, your prosperity wont last and you will be broken. And you will end up an overpopulation of disunited minorities - hardly the stuff of which polical change or revolution is made.

Whew!! I'm exhausted

"You said that the high rate of immigration is a concern because of the fragile ecosystem and should be dealt with. Listen to yourself! There's one way to deal with it - stop it. Don't be mushy and take refugee in platitudes. What other way is there to deal with the situation? And in the middle of a drought too - brilliant."

Australians have been incredibly profligate with their water resources and are only now starting to sensibly take control and manage it properly. Sustainable housing development and restrictinbg urban sprawl will ensure we can keep growing our population while meeting the ecological challenges.

"Finally, look up the United Nations definition of genocide: delibrately changing the population of a Nation fits the definition. The Elite of Australia have betrayed their people and their oaths of office. They should be dealt with hardily."

Vlad with all the conspiracies for world government and social control and creating only 2 classes rich and poor etc etc etc, I surmise that you see the United Nations as part of the greater conspiracy. If this is the case when why would you refer to a definition of genocide as postulated by theat great conspiratorial body the UN.??? You are quite the paradox Vlad my son.

Vlad
I might be wrong here but I reckon you live in a small midwestern town in the USA on a small piece of acreage. You are probably aged between 35 and 45 and you own plenty of guns and have an ample supply of ammo. You probably belong to some white supremacist group which is also a religious grouping so it serves your spiritual needs as well as your need to bemoan the fate of Western Christian civilization being consumed by the dark skinned hordes and prepare for the final Armaggedon like showdown.

If you want understand the meaning of genocide go to your local library and read up on Hitler, Turkey and the Armenians, Rwanda, Bosnia and I;m sure the librarian could point you to a few more examples.

May I suggest you lighten up, stop attending the church of white fascism and post coherent well researched or lat least logical comments on what is a great blog.

Many thanks JHK I love your writing and apologies for taking up so many column inches in what has become a rather pointless exercise with Vlad

Jim - I wish I could say that your perspective was off-base. Butit is not. The fact is we are headed for some very challenging times and those with power will get pretty nasty attempting to hold on to it.

is it true non australians cant buy a house there? [see jim rogers best seller]

and what about protests where folks had signs:
we grew here you flew here?
last aussie i remember talkin to was here in LA looking for work as a carpenter!

Oh here we go again conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory.

HOW BOUT THIS....the dreaded La Times had an article on those in detention there [ as Au still has non physical borders...unlike USA]
saying the middle easterners were seeking political asylum and why shouldnt they be set free?
WELL THEYD TRAVELED THRU 5? COUNTRIES BEFORE GETTING TO AU SO THEY WERE SEEKING ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY NOT ASYLUM FAR AS I CAN TELL.

You said that the high rate of immigration is a concern because of the fragile ecosystem and should be dealt with
what him worry?
there was a piece in LAT the other day about how greece had very few immigrants till 10 years ago, now turd worlders are a significant part of greece, legal and illegal.
yet LA T tried to make a case for this situation, that somehow it was ' good, necessary'


however this is the paper that had an article maybe the same day on the ' unitarian minister in new mexico' thatll take up the slack for the late george tiller and do the abortions on the women 7 or 8 months...check the article for yrself if you like.

I might be wrong here but I reckon you live in a small midwestern town in the USA on a small piece of acreage.
You are probably aged between 35 and 45 and you own plenty of guns and have an ample supply of ammo.
You probably belong to some white supremacist group which is also a religious grouping so it serves your spiritual needs as well as your need to bemoan the fate of Western Christian civilization being consumed by the dark skinned hordes and prepare for the final Armaggedon like showdown

you might be right...however if you described me that way youd be wrong on all counts.
i live in an area of LA [ north mexico according to a black neighbor]
here the mayor called ' la a 3rd world city'...but didnt complete the thought [ due to mexico and central america]
and at cinco de mayo the flag is flown upside down and burned.
mexicans here have rioted [ to loot] at the loss of a ball game.
adios!

Jk has described the republicans as ' the party that wrecked america'..hes half right.

is for there to be only two classes: the rich and the poor. Believe me, your prosperity wont last and you will be broken. And you will end up an overpopulation of disunited minorities - hardly the stuff of which polical change or revolution is made.

here hes looking at usa..post 1965
and i agree with him on this!
dont ask if ask when itll happen elsewhere

did you hear alex jones on coast to coast talking the census?
i thought the census was as outrageous as the signs here:
todos contamos...we all count
gawd what a rat hole the controllers expect us to race down.
and threats of large fines if citizens dont comply or lie.

again see ' the bell curve' page 449?

NJ[ ah the garden state] entrance exam to HS questions...1887
yikes...i couldnt get into that HS...and ive a degree plus 5 years of computer school and general ed classes.

economics..what did they teach in econ classes then?
now biz class are things like 'logistics' or how to do biz with red china.
im taking a finance class at nite school thats laughable..should be for 4th to 8th graders...someone from a brokerage teaches it.

in reality getting a BA or BS should take 2 years not 4 or 5..if school was year round in 4 terms of 3 months [ 8 terms x 16-17 credits= about 128 credits = bachelors]

an x marine claimed 17000 more irs agents will be hired to enforce its rule...anyone know if this is true?

Oh you know about crime rates - so you must know that Blacks rape and murder at five times the rate of Whites. But you know it only in one sequestered part of your mind - you don't let it inform your public opinions. I'm not surprised you're White at all. Being deluded and a race traitor are expected of White Professionals. The Elites themselves probably are racists since they are realists. In any case, they are free to believe as they wish. But they rigorously enforce the mental straight jacket on the Mandarins - the people who work for them. No dissent is allowed whatsoever. And this policy is working. There are Whites who were driven out of Rhodesia into South Africa and then out of South Africa into Australia by Black Violence - yet they still talk like Blacks are great and that the turnover of power was a good thing.

Australia is a White Country. When it ceases to be White it ceases to be Australia. A country is not a piece of real estate. The Aborigineees were no more the first Australians than the Indians were the first Americans. And with their stunted IQ's of 60, the Aboriginees is utterly unsuited for Western Life. Compassion for them means leaving them alone - leaving them out in the Wild with the Dingoes and the Kangaroos. Compassion can be a sickness you know when not allied with facts and the wisdom to interpret those facts. Whites seem to have a genetic weakness in this regard. You'll never see East Asians away their countries to foreigners. The Japanese had an economic boom too - did they open up their country to Arabs? You talk like it's an obvious thing to do - a measure of how deeply programmed you are. In fact, it's a crazy thing to do. Now the Japanese Economy is just Ok, but they don't have enough workers. Do they plan to bring in Arabs or Indians? Hell no. They are leading the World in developing Robotics. And very cautiously they have brought in some Koreans and Fillipinos - but they intend to stay in control and not just open the floodgates.

Now I've heard that Canada has much better screening of immigrants than we do. Any warm body can come to the U.S. Perhaps Australia screens too. Good for you if so. But still the tendency will be down. You will never again have the unity you enjoyed heretofore. And as time goes by, you will see your own goverment favoring the Asians. They will begin to dominate the Professions. And once they reach a majority in management, which means hireing - Whites will be out of luck. They will favor their own. The Dispossesion of Whites will be complete. It's happening before our eyes here in America. And Britain too apparently. Go to the BNP websites if you don't believe me.

Our Dilemma: Whites are morbidly compassionate. And beyond that, they lack commonsense. They can be controlled with pretty words in a way that Asians, Hispanics, and Blacks just can't be. Our Idealism blinds us to the realities of life. We can't imagine that we can ever be ousted from our dominant position even though it's happening with great rapidity. That's complaceny and arrogance though - sins that happen to all dominant peoples at the end of their civilization. But the weird compassion and openeness to duplicity are all our's. Maybe it's a weakness of just modern Western Whites. The Ancient Romans in contrast, were lazy and arrogant at the end. But they never hated themselves or believed that other people could just take over and have it still be Rome.

Who are they? I already said - the Globalists. They are mysterious by definition. George Soros is a personal friend of Obama and probably gave him millions. He has that and plenty more. Everytime time a fence to block the Mexicans gets voted in - it mysterously never gets built. It always get defunded. The Elite in action. In America, they channel money through the great Foundations - Carnegie, Rockefeller, etc. Mexican students in the American Southwest read the Mexican version of history - how evil America is. Their textbooks are funded by the Foundations. A small example. But all of higher Academia trembles in their presence to get the funding that they can dispense. And of course politicians as well.

http://kunstler.com/blog/2010/03/the-party-of-cruelty.html#comment-15705

Hi Vlad

Still no refuting what I refuted ..... just a whole new attack on "white weakness".

"Race traitor" Nice one Vlad.

That confirms my earlier suspicions regarding your social and political affiliations.

Well Vlad good luck attending your daughter's wedding to a man not of caucasian descent...

Lock and load baby..

I have to log off now as my mysterious, globalist trilaterlist master with the surname Rothschild who is related by blood oath to a Rockefeller has summoned me to a Global New World Order meeting.

I must obey.

Catch you at Ayrian ho down on 28 April

toodlepip

What's with this Anne Coulter person who's currently doing a lecture tour in Canada? The stuff she's saying (or at least what I'm told she's saying) is mind blowing. I hope our country offers her a refection that is not to her liking. The Tightly Tea Folk are really starting to spook me worse than who we've been calling our enemies. I will no longer travel to the US until the fascism dies back considerably there.

WORST.COLUMN.EVER.

Nothing but a bunch of partisan bullshit.

Is this the best you can do, Jim?

You are lost in the same delusions that you accuse most others of.

I will never vote for the Republocrat OneParty again.

Until JHK grows the balls to leave his delusions and put down the PomPoms for "his" beloved Party, he's part of the problem, not the solution.

Back then you needed 20 credits to get a 4 yr BA. One credit = one full yr course. Five full year courses per year was considered a normal course load. A half credit was a half yr course.

The courses included what you would expect: macroeconomics, microeconomics, economic history, history of economic thought, urban economics, calculus, statistics and probability, labour relations, international economics, econometrics and others. The readings also included what you would expect: Adam Smith, Ricardo, Keynes, Marx, Marshall and others. Standard stuff.

This finance course that you're taking: are you working on a degree?

I know what you mean about the relaxed pace of work in a BA program. Back then, guys in engineering, medicine, law and, to a lesser extent commerce, busted their asses. A normal BA in comparison was a holiday. I realized after I started work the meaning of stress.

I enjoy Kunstler's jeremiads on the American crapscape, especially when he gets wound up about tattoos and baggy trousers. Too bad his work seems to attract nutters and creeps.

Hey guys, go check the mail! Maybe your Survival Seeds™ arrived!


Eleuthero: an important read

http://www.newswithviews.com/Gregory/williams113.htm

gmail if you prefer...

[ as Au still has non physical borders...unlike USA]-asia.

Um, Australia is basically a Great Big Island in the S. Pacific ocean, therefore it has very real physical borders: go to the beach - swim until you drown.
The USA however has very imaginary borders to the north & south. Someone, a long time ago took a map and drew arbitrary lines on it with a quill pen and said "Thems' the borders!" Until recently, you could walk across that imaginary line and be in Canada or Mexico without even knowing it.

And I still don't get why you are responding to someone else's reply to Vlad the Racist Inhaler.
Gee, does he ever take the hood off when he's hittin' the Bong? Guess not.

Dee

Say Vlad The Bad: You do know that there is a very simple genetic test you can take to find out just how "pure" you rally are.
Here's a thought: Why don't you take the test, and let us know just how lily-white pure you are.

IF you are as pure as claimed, we will all bow down before you and take your word as the Gospel of Vlad the Pure (you have to post a link with the results that can be verified).

If on the other hand it comes back that you are not as pure as you thought (a nip out of the ol' chocolate box in the family past), why we will only ask one thing in return: That you SHUT THE FUCK UP! with the racism. We wont even ask for an apology.

So, howz about it? Got the balls?

Dee

asia said: "im taking a finance class at nite school thats laughable..should be for 4th to 8th graders...someone from a brokerage teaches it."

asia you have been taking classes for years and education is no longer inexpensive. Who is paying for your classes? GI Bill, Social Security, Pell Grants, or some other big government-run program?
And all you can do is criticize big government?

By the way, education is not about what "they" given you... it's not about stuffing information into you. It is an opportunity for you to educate yourself. An opportunity to spend more time in the library reading books. Don't miss the opportunity.

Austalia has natural borders - so why don't the Elite respect them? America doesn't - Dee thinks - so why don't we just erase our Country? Dee who said that your house is your house? Can I just come and camp in your yard? After all, some fool just said that this is your's. It's not like you have a natural border or anything.

Dee you don't have a trained mind. And you aint a natural at all. Why don't you take some philosophy courses at your local college? It might help. Then again, it might not. You may just not be very bright.

Well you are betraying your race as quaint as that may sound to you. Other races by and large are loyal to their's - as you would see if you would but LOOK for a just a moment. But that would getting out of your head, out of your ideology, out of your beloved conditioning where you live, move, and have your being.

As for the rest, insults are the Libtard's stock and trade - he or she has no other. Everything else is just sentimental mush and stupidity covering up naked greed and love of power. Liberalism is made up of the cunning few and stupid many. The takers and the taken. The carnies and the marks. The Dupes and Dupers. You are a dupe. A useful idiot as Lenin used to say.

Conspiracies are possible precisely because the dupes think that they aren't. Your gullibility makes them possible. Who taught you (programmed) that they couldn't happen? The Media. And who owns the Media, Dupe?

Yes, I think the Republicans stopped being the party of Lincoln and started assuming the persona of the corporation back in the 1920s, when the Supreme Court first extended the privileges of being a live human being to corporations. This Court simply reinforced and extended the novel idea that an amoral numerical entity with only one objective should be granted all the rights and privileges of citizenship.

At the same time, while the corporation has ascended to the level of citizen, I have been downgraded to — let me see — oh yes, CONSUMER.

Ride your bike, Jim!

"

Austalia has natural borders - so why don't the Elite respect them? America doesn't - Dee thinks - so why don't we just erase our Country? Dee who said that your house is your house? Can I just come and camp in your yard? After all, some fool just said that this is your's. It's not like you have a natural border or anything.

Dee you don't have a trained mind. And you aint a natural at all. Why don't you take some philosophy courses at your local college? It might help. Then again, it might not. You may just not be very bright."

Ahhh hahahahahah!!! I knew it!! Vlad didn't respond to my challenge, he ain't got the balls to take the test. He must know that sometime in the past ol' Gran pappy Vlad liked dark chocolate.

Ohhh, weeee!!!! That does it for sure, Vlad just shits out his mouth!!!

So: SHUT THE FUCK UP, VLAD!!! you ain't got the balls to prove you are pure.
Ahhh weeee hahahahahhaha......

Oh, I bet he shits his white sheets now .....

Whats all his KKK bros gonna think?

Oh weoohhhowww!!

Oh, I bow for the great white race so they can kiss my shiny brown ass.... come on and kiss it Vlad the Imposter.

Vlad,

You know, I understand what you are saying. Ethnic differences can flame up, especially during hard times ( a la Chechnya 1993, and the general surge in racist crimes in Russia during 1990's to mid 00's ). I think that the life in the developing world is what makes non-white people more harder: we live off luxuries, they fight for necessities. They are survivalists, while we are obese dreamers:P

You are right that borders must be protected. If they are not, then future ethnic tensions can reduce the state to rubble. However, I don't agree with your assessment of 'whites' and 'non-whites'. What makes whites so special? When USSR broke up, crime surged. Russia sprang into the top 10 most criminal countries on Earth, maybe even top 5. And this wasn't due to non-white population. It was the whites who killed.

Just my 2 copecks.

Wow, you can't connect the dots between rising tuition costs, and the government money funneled into the education system. No wonder you are under the ridiculous delusion that this health care bill will reduce the deficit.

are you working on a degree?
no, someone who works for countrywide with 2 masters from BIG name schools said ' past 45, youll never get a great paying job'

in the 70s it was 128 credits for a BA...and i know that those who take chem/physics/math ' are in a different league than those who take basket weaving!'
the jc i take classes at has 4 terms a year and way too many junk and online junk classes. i assume those classes are money makers.
i dont understand why the time lengths of the terms are not even , as in 3 months each.

again the entrance exam for 1800s high school was a ball breaker. id not be qualified.

there was an interesting piece in business week on the scam 'for profit' colleges are. giving AA degrees to soldiers for ' previous military training' if they pay 4000$, which is maximum payment gi bill allows.....................

WORST.COLUMN.EVER.

you noticed! perhaps for JK it was ' a snowball in hell' feeling..that a broke govt can provide euro style benefits to us.

KKK: are or were they mostly democrats?
seriously...

While I agree with JHK that the Democratic party in America and, to a lesser extent, the Liberal Party in Canada, "has tended to oppose institutional cruelty and injustice" both parties have a serious blind spot that has alienated them from potential voters: their refusal to recongnize that Israel is the only true ally America has in the world apart from Great Britain and Canada. Witness the Obama administration's reaction to Israel's decision to allow new Jewish settlements on the West Bank. Why on earth does the Democratic Party continue to play the old liberal game of dividing the blame equally between Palestinians and Jews when it is the Palestinians who refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist and have violated every peace treaty that America has brokered to keep the entire region from blowing up? Since 1948, Israel has been the only country in the Middle East where everyone, regardless of nationality or religion, has full democratic rights and where religious and racial discrimination is prohibited by law. Get a clue President Obama: the Republicans may be cruel, ignorant, and hateful but when it comes to Israel they, and not the Democrats, are the ones with America's best interests at heart.

I've seen the same phenom the countrywide guy talked about. I've been through a number of corporate downsizings and restructurings, some of which I survived and some of which I didn't but what was common to them all was that the guys with grey hair were the first to get turfed. In the 1990s when the economy was really shitty in these parts there were a lot of guys in that age bracket that could only get temp or contract work. Of course that's when a guy has kids who need money for college, university etc so there was a lot of family strain and breakdown. Hard to watch.

Private, for profit "colleges" are a problem north of the border too. They give bogus certificates on all kinds of areas like elder care etc.

George sez:
"Get a clue President Obama: the Republicans may be cruel, ignorant, and hateful but when it comes to Israel they, and not the Democrats, are the ones with America's best interests at heart."

Ummmm, I just wanna know how much longer you might think this evil little game is going to continue vis a vis "our bestest, swellest ally EVER", Israel.

Don't you think we'll have a few "issues" of our own to take care of on our own patch o' dirt?

I say, cut bait on Israel, all bases on foreign soil, and...... the cesspool that bubbles and stinks on the Potomac.

If you like what's goin' on in the "[un]Holy Land", you're just gonna LOVE WWIII. Mmmmm-mmm, good!
Sign up today, and invite your Republican friends to join in the fun! (It'll be super; and a money-maker/tax-breaker to boot.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/opinion/19brooks.html
A great read!
I found this NYTimes editorial backing many of the precepts of JHK'S ideas.

Yup guess you're just another one of the dupes who bought into that old media canard about most American Whites being part Black. You are as ignorant as the day is long - and disgusting. Always talking about shit. What the hell is your problem? I'm begining to think OEO was right about you wearing a strap on. Maybe the Freudian perspective could explain you: badly toilet trained leading to an anal obsession and a potty mouth.

martyr13 said: "Wow, you can't connect the dots between rising tuition costs..."

Actually, what I was asking about is how come asia keeps going to classes where he disses the professors and disses "liberals"... and then criticizes "big government" when the "big government" checks are paying for the education and seem to come when needed. Make that "big efficient liberal government" supporting asia quite nicely.

What makes Whites so great? Look around at everything in the room - could other races have invented all of this? Sure maybe, but they didn't - we did. Whether they could or not is an open question, an unknown. But we did it. And all the freedoms we've enjoyed - do you take that for granted? Do you think that's common in World History or even the World today? We brought these freedoms into existence and no one else. And most of all, why are Whites so great - because we're White. We can never be anything else so we should affirm ourselves. This argument is very simple but don't discount it. It's crucial. Yest it's so simple that it goes right under the radar of the so called Wise and Educated. We have the right to our own subjectivity just like everyone else. Because we've excelled so much at the objective world of science and technology, we've really lost touch with ourselves subjectively. So now other races that do love themselves are taking our technology and using it against us - even in our own lands. If we had kept in touch with ourselves, we would have never allowed such a travesty. Intellectually and Spiritually, I admit more equality between the Races or at least some of them. The Indians and East Asians have thought very deeply and are worthy of study. But we have dominated the outward arts of Science and Social Experimentation.

So I admit we have our problems. But we are still the leaders in many ways including environmentalism. Fitting? Sure since we have done more to pollute the Earth. But that doesn't mean that the rest of humanity are ecologically advanced. That doesn't follow at all logically or in terms of obsevation.

But it's very late in the day for the West. We've made bad mistakes and just kept on going. The Slavic World may well be the only hope we have left - despite or even because of the fact that they've traditionally lagged behind the rest of the West. Communism had the odd effect of preserving them, or putting them on ice while we degenerated at an incredible pace. Yes Russia has never been very advanced politically but none the less, it is the best hope of any survival of Western Culture. Putin is desperately trying to save them after the destruction of Communism and the ruinous chaos of the Oligarchic Period of post Communism. Some of the gangs aren't Russian btw. The Chechens are very strong and the Jews control the so called Russian Maffia from what I've heard. Seven of the Eight Great Oligarchs were Jews. So again the Jews tried to despoil Russia as they did under Lenin. This time they flew the Capitalist flag.


I follow with some amusement the back-and-forth
between Vlad and his myriad detractors. As I've
said in many previous posts, there aren't a
hundred men who are honest about issues of race.

Although I sense that I'm to the left of Vlad,
I respect a man who has a respect for hard data
... like the fivefold amount of RAPING that
blacks commit relative to whites.

And I suspect that the vast majority of the
self-congratulating egalitarians, if their
lives were put under a microscope, would be
found to live in safe, white neighborhoods
and their social intimates are also as white
as a member of the KKK.

Vlad's also right about another thing i.e.,
other cultures (like Japan and Russia) don't
delude themselves about universal human
equality. History is littered with dead
civilizations and ethnicities. It appears
that Europeans and Americans have a very
peculiar need to destroy their civilizations
in 2010. They don't really blend with the
people who are infiltrating but they muse
about it while in the comfort of their
armchairs.

There's a lot of pretending going on in the
egalitarian ranks. They're as scared as
anyone if their car breaks down in the ghetto.
They certainly don't WILLINGLY choose to live
in a ghetto. Nietzsche would have a field
day with these "noble savage worshippers"
were he alive today.

I just love all you folks waiting to stand
in line to beat your own breasts about what
a cad Vlad is and how godly and righteous
you, yourselves, are. If you're talking,
you're LYING.


Eleuthero

Good one, Eleuthero. I share your suspicion of moralizing: it's my observation that, as a general rule, people find their moral feet only when they're not getting their own way.

I was riveted the other morning when my wife related Bertolt Brecht's The Good Woman of Szechwan. I instantly recognized in it that aspect of human nature I have encountered too many times: morality is mostly self-serving. So much public posturing, so few good things done in secret.

As I learned from Nietzsche, there is a world of difference between morality and moralic acid.

I marvel that egalitarians always disgorge a quantity of moralic acid whenever they're crossed by the Vlads of the world. If their case is so strong, why do they resort to threats, bullying, ostracism, blackmail and character assassination?

"... what a cad Vlad is ..."
======================

I like it: "Vlad the Cad."

The following words accompany a Maxine cartoon:

Let me get this straight. We're going to be gifted with a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who also hasn't read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke.

What the hell could possibly go wrong?

So E and MH, what is your point? Vlad is honest about his hatred for other races, so he is honest, and we defend humanity as a whole, so we are hypocrites?

Personally, I reject his hypothesis. In the last century, especially, but for centuries before that also, white people in Europe slaughtered each other with enthusiasm. And in WWll, the USA sat back and waited for the Germans and Russians to kill as many as possible before entering European terrority.

Where is the superior white mentality?

Plus, Europeans slaughtered millions of people in North and South America, Asia, Africa and Australia in order to take their land and other riches.

This is an historical fact. Vlad thinks it's OK. I don't. Why is it hypocritical for me to have different morals?

The slaughter continues today, with our superior technology used to attack people who have inferior means to protect themselves. I think that's immoral.

Americans sit in Nevada piloting drones which assassinate people in other countries. Vlad celebrates this. I deplore it.

Americans invaded Iraq after making sure that the Iraqis were mostly disarmed. Over a million Iraqis are now dead, compared to 4,000 Americans. Am I really supposed to be proud of that?

After white people have looted and destroyed much of the planet for profit, Vlad celebrates our environmentalism and says that other people aren't as advanced.

I look at Eva Morales and Bolivia, where the rights of animals and the environment are enshrined in their Constitution and I disagree.

We may have laws protecting the environment here, but they are broken regularly by corporations, and many Americans go along with it. Jobs, you know.

I am not impressed with the so called superiority of white people, in other words. Why is that so hard for you folks to understand?

I agree about the monumental hyprocricy over race. IMO the most deeply convinced racists are white liberals. The racism of a white liberal racist is like water to a fish. The fish spends all his time in water so he doesn't know he's wet. Similarly the white liberal racist doesn't know he's racist. It's deeply woven into his underlying mental infrastructure and he would vehemently deny it's there.

North of the border white people that are openly religious are laughed at and held in contempt by supposedly tolerant white liberals. Yet a non white religious person, (Christian, Muslim, Hindu or whatever) faces no such scorn. Why? IMO because, to white liberals, a white person should have the intellectual capacity to understand that religion is bunk but a non white has to be cut some slack because their intellectual capacity is not up to snuff.

I think that these white liberal racists really act as if white people and especially they themselves have intellectual and moral faculties that others (the non white lesser breeds) lack. I don't think white liberal racists really believe that socioeconomic status, racial oppression etc explains economic and other disparities between whites and non whites.

I think that white liberal racists push the idea of multiculturalism because of their sense of their own insurmountable superiority. They can be scratched and dented maybe but never ever brought down. So let the lesser breeds do their quaint ethno-cultural thing. Monumentally superior white liberal racists watch from their perch on top of the social and economic pyramid, smiling indulgently while their lessers tend their vegetable stalls, dance their costumed ethnic dances, eat their stinking, inedible pre- chewed ethnic food and go about their superstitious religious rituals. The white liberal racist is smugly satisfied he has done the right and moral thing. By letting into his country lesser breeds and by encouraging their quaint cultures and beliefs the white liberal racist shows he is unassailable and he cannot be dislodged, such is his natural advantage. Or so he thinks.

I wasn't quite sure I was a "white liberal racist" until somebody tolt me I were (about 9 or 10 times in a short post). Thanks; I now go to kiss the asses of Frank Luntz and Karl Rove.

I feel so much better now that I've claimed my label, and the tone of the blog has been properly adjusted to a focus on race[baiting]. Good job!

Defending Vlad doesn't make me a white supremacist any more than dabbling in the stock exchange makes me Gordon Gekko.

I'll make a deal with you: I won't assume that if you pick up, say, Might is Right and read a few lines that you must be a homicidal maniac, if you do the same for me. Okay?

Otherwise it's the bad faith proposition that, ironically, I was alluding to in my comment you object to so strenuously: that the culture has given you permission to assume the worst about people if they deviate from the script.

If so, I'll be happy to return the favor.

You make it sound as if whites are actually inferior by virtue of their enthusiastic slaughter of one another as well as people of other races.

But other races are just as enthusiastic at cruelty and murder. White people are not morally inferior to others. White civilizations have had a technological edge for a couple of hundred years over non white societies and so the slaughter was much more effective.

Granted nothing matched the industrial scale slaughter of Jews. But I'll bet if earlier non white peoples had had the industrial means that Germany had, they would have used those means to murder just as Germany did. For his time, Attila the Hun and his murdering hordes were the cutting edge when it came to pointless slaughter.

But civilizations rise and fall. What Vlad and other openly racist people say about non whites was probably said 5,000 years ago by civilized non white people about uncivilized whites. Middle eastern people were living in walled cities 10,000 years ago. By 5,000 years ago they were building on the ruins of earlier civilizations. What were white people doing all those millenia? Sitting around campfires scratching their asses, picking fleas. Non whites were cultivating irrigated fields, building temple complexes, developing writing and mathematics while whites were toothless barbarians barely able to scratch out a living. But times changed and white Europeans gained the upper hand.

We think we're so high and mighty and can afford to show our moral superiority by taking shots at ourselves. We are not so high and mighty and we will go down like earlier civilizations.

My pleasure. Glad to help.

"And all the freedoms we've enjoyed - do you take that for granted? Do you think that's common in World History or even the World today?"

VK- we've robbed more than any other race on earth. From the Roman Empire forward, we've enslaved and inflicted suffering for personal profits, and still doing it today. If we are the ones who invented ''all the freedoms'' then we will be the ones who destroy it.

I didn't say you were a white supremacist, MH. I asked what your point was.

It seemed that you felt open racism is the only honest way to be.

If you reject racism, you must be a hypocrite.

Wasn't that your point?

I agree with you. Human beings can be vicious killers, no matter what their race.

But while you then draw the conclusion that we shouldn't criticize the industrial slaughter that we are now engaged in, because others have killed before, I feel that, as a decent human being, I must protest.

And I don't feel that I have any monopoly on being a decent human being because of my lack of melanin.

We are what we are. I accept it. Let the slaughtering games begin!

To paraphrase a recent Presnint, "Mass murder is the best solution. As long as I am the murderer!"

Close your eyes and listen, video is lame:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwZ3h5AN1oo

I imagine now that O did not follow Netanyahoo's orders and send him home pouting,we'll have another accident or downright murder by some "crazy"scape goat looking forward to.
Remember the Oswald fairy tale,Jack Ruby and Dorothy Kilgallen story??

Dorothy K- she dug those Jack Ruby slippers! To die for!

I worded it badly. My point is that whites are no better or worse than others when it comes to murder and mayhem. By all means criticize, what Europeans have done to one another and to others is in no way shape or form defensible. I just get uppity when whites seem to be put in a category all their own when it comes to evil. I just don't think we have a monopoly on it. By the way your posts are great.

"It seemed that you felt open racism is the only honest way to be."

No.

Next time ask me if I'm still beating my wife.

I am not interested in the subject of race. I have said once before that I regard it as an operational nullity. It's Vlad's obsession, not mine.

Rather, I am interested in why, only a few generations ago, the suggestion that there are no differences between the races would have been greeted with howls of opprobrium, yet today the suggestion that there may be differences is greeted with howls of opprobrium.

Either way, what is of interest is the mechanism of conformity. As I said, today's culture gives people permission to reduce to the lowest possible status anyone who strays from the party line – that race is a social construct, etc. This mechanism of conformity, with all its attendant horrors like snitching, ruining a person's career, etc. was characteristic of East German society not long ago. Race had nothing to do with it.

And my point wasn't clear enough so let me make it clearer: liberals are among those who are very eager to take such permission, much too eager, and it is that that arouses my suspicion.

I don't accuse people of hypocrisy because that kind of moralizing is what I'm opposed to.

What I want to know is: Are you brave enough to risk social ostracism or job loss to talk honestly about race? Not here. At work. I don't think I'm brave enough. I suppose that makes me a hypocrite.

No, I'm uncomfortable talking about race at work, or anywhere else, really.

But, weirdly, since you ask, the other day I was working with a black guy, and first he asked me if I was going to the Player's Ball, which is a party that blacks have every year here. I was too uncomfortable to point out that I was white. (As if he didn't notice).

Then he asked who his relief was and I said "Jamal". He said "who is that?" and I said "A big black guy." Because he was open enough about race that I thought I could mention it.

Then he went on like a 10 minute riff about how of course Jamal was black, what kind of white guy would be named Jamal, boy, that would be strange, etc., etc., etc.

Yes. I was uncomfortable. Just how far can I go with joking around?

Once, I was hanging with a black woman and she started joking about what a lousy slave she would have been, so I starting riffing on it, with Monty Python references (you had to have been there) and stuff, and later I thought, well, maybe I shouldn't have joked about slavery with her. Maybe it's OK for her, but not me.

But she didn't seem to mind. So I don't know.

If people stopped minding so much, it would be a big help. We all make gaffes.

A couple of years ago I was speaking to a lecturer at a very liberal university where my wife taught. Another person, an Asian, was present.

I don't remember the context, but I thought I was being witty quoting PJ O'Rourke's A Brief History of Man: "Man developed in Africa. He has not continued to do so there."

This was met with a stunned silence. Well, serve me right for quoting a Republican.

I'm openly prejudiced against Republicans and it gets me into trouble.

Perhaps it's best not to mention your biases in mixed company.

"Yup guess you're just another one of the dupes who bought into that old media canard about most American Whites being part Black. You are as ignorant as the day is long - and disgusting. Always talking about shit. What the hell is your problem? I'm begining to think OEO was right about you wearing a strap on. Maybe the Freudian perspective could explain you: badly toilet trained leading to an anal obsession and a potty mouth." - Vlad the CAd

You still don't respond to the Challenge, therefore you forfeit the claim to racial purity.
And just what is this fantasy of yours & oeo's? I tell you what, why don;t you two get together and take turns wearing the strap-on. Might do you some good....

Later, asshole.

Calis 'the bow of the titanic':

govt admits to 13% unemployment..so not even JK knows what real number is!!!!

the azatlanders are restless and breeding!
the border doesnt exist!
state govt so broke..................
what an x marine said is ' as the us govt has to send troops to quell the mexican narco terrorists maybe then theyll formally merge the 2 countries'. i dunno.
but i know madame hillary said we the law abiding
citizens are to blame
for the bloodshed there'.

' right about another thing i.e.,
other cultures (like Japan '

uh japans a story unto itself! korean families that have been there 80? 100+ ? years arent accepted and theres 5000? immigrants made citizens a year...something like that

advice to ashok..those of us who take 1 class aterm..pay fees and 100 to 200$ per text are known as....taxpayer part time citizen students.

'Why is that so hard for you folks to understand'
is that you dont get their racism or you dont get that they dont understand you?
im in california..a stranger with a south african accent is yelling at someone that ' how dare they joke at the holocaust..the greatest extermination of humans ever'
this is going on about half block from the muse of tolerance.
however what hes saying is patently untrue.
mao....80? million.
stalin...20 million

so dostev and Jk can say ther are no conspiracies but with taiwan kicked out of Un and red china in...clearly someones pulling the puppets strings.

Noam Chomsky:
the Us is #1 in one area: militarism.

"It has been said the greatest volume of sheer brainpower in one place occurred when Jefferson dined alone..." John F. Kennedy

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe. Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. Thomas Jefferson

Now, you can be called a domestic terrorist for saying these very same things.

The Battle Ship Dee limps back to shore after having sustained heavy casualties and damadge from its encounter with the Vlad Krandz.

Why would I need a stap on - I have the real thing. But I find it charming you don't know anything about that. At least you have that much innocence left.

Yes Cash, I think you're onto part of it. It's like a potlatch for Whites. A potlatch, for those who don't know, was a ceremony in which some Indians of the Northwest Coast would compete to see who could give away the most. They would even kill their own slaves in the competition. Liberal Whites are competing in the Moral Arena to see who can give away the most to minorities. But they are inferior to the Indians because they generally give away other people's money and jobs. As far as is known, no Liberal has ever given away their own job to a needy minority. And as for needy Whites - they don't count. No points at all. Google competitive altruism - you'll find an interesting essay about this by a White Nationalist named Ian Jobling.

The ordinary Liberal is a crafty hypocrite gushing about Blacks while trying to get himself and his kids as far away as possible. Only at the higher level of the cult do you find the real fanatics who try to live out this crazy ideal - and even inflict it on their kids. I except the missionaries from all this. Christ said to go out to all men and teach. They have done so - at great cost to life and limb. But now the churches have gotten lazy and gone PC. They don't want to go out anymore - they want to bring the savages in. And they don't even teach the gospel anymore -just "social justice" or Communism in other words. And of course, "hate Whitey" like that evil priest in Chicago who was preaching for Obama.

You don't feel you have a monopoly on being a decent human being because you lack melanin - no in fact you obviously feel inferior to the Melanined Ones. Now Wage, do you really think we are moving towards a color blind society? Or in fact, is race becoming ever more a barrier and source of tension? And is that our fault that we are frightened and angry? After all, a number of prominent Black Politicians have already said that Whites don't have civil rights. And no one except us was shocked at that. And haven't you and your cohort in fact encouraged Blacks and now Hispanics to hate Whites? In all kinds of subtle and overt ways you have. And then you wonder why we're moving away from King's dream of a color blind society? Obviously there was tension a plenty already - you folks gave the green light to let it all hang out. As long as they went after Conservatives and Lower Class Whites, you folks were just as pleased as could be. They were going after your enemies while leaving you Liberals - the good Whites - alone. Alas hatred is a fire that cannot be controlled. You ignited it and tended it but now you have lost all control over it.

As for your other comments: Whites were not always the Masters of the World. Tens of millions of Whites died at the hands of the Mongols, the Huns, and the Turks. Whites once lived deep in Asia, all the way to Western China. They are all gone now - defeated, driven out, absorbed. Exactly what you want to happen to all Whites everwhere. Admit it, in your heart you want genocide against Whites. Your job is to try to understand yourself enough to figure out why you want such a monstrous thing. Start here: why do Asians have the right to have their own Countries but Whites do not?

Yeah I heard about one poor White Schmoe who got a brick through his back window one night in L.A - and then got out to see what had happened! Almost got beat to death.

One good thing is that Blacks watch alot of tv and movies. They see gangsters holding the gun sideways so they do it to - just like hats. But that makes the guns jam in real life!

I love it when Liberals act like they're on the cutting edge of revolution by taking a stand against racism - even though it's been the ruling ethos for two generations and more now. Such utter asshole clowns. Just like Russia during the Stalinist Terror - there were signs up saying "Dare to vote for Stalin".

Yeah all that's called walking on egg shells, Wage. And they love to see us do it. Asking you if you were going to a Black Event - he was lording it over you. Is this the color blind society you envision? Do you really believe they will ever forgive us? Why would they when we've incentivized their hatred and resentment? Look how much they've gotten from their riots and their threats of more riots - why on Earth would they ever relent? Christain charity? Nobility? They lack these by and large. They wont stop until we make it clear that had better. Or better by far, lets just seperate from them. Then they can fly free from our racism! (They will fall to Earth and starve)

I don't think Vlad should be made scapegoat for his ideology. Just as I would not scapegoat a Christian, Liberal, Conservative, Jew, Muslim, etc. for any of their ideologies. I don't see Vlad as "full of hate"; in fact,I would surmise that he would be a kind, friendly guy to have as a neighbor. Also, I would defend his right to free speech with violence if forced to do so.

To lighten Vlad's day,

Around the time of the Nov 2008 elections people in the humor business were speculating on how our first black president and his family would be treated as the subject of cartoon and TV humor. I imagined the following:

Once a political honeymoon period of reasonable duration has run its course we might expect the following Saturday Night Live skit:

The first family is having dinner in the White House. They are all in one another's face in foul-mouthed black vernacular. Michelle is a haridan black bitch-on-wheels and the two girls are carbon copies ... cussing out their father and the family dog, Bo (for shiting on their bed). Barack is throwing an O.J. Simpson-like tirade at the family with some added uncouth aside concerning Nancy Pelosi. At this moment a caucasian waiter enters the room to serve them. The family instantly falls silent then slips into genteel conversation as plates of food are placed before them ... Barack instructing his cute daughters on some fine point of table manners in his resonant baritone, Michelle commenting on the wonderful arugula salad, and the girls enthusiastically describing Bo's hijinx. As the waiter exits the room the mahem of black vernacular resumes.

The Big Lebowski! Magnificent! They don't make characters like that anymore.

Thanks for the grin in a grim sequence of comments.

Please, Dee. Please. Go out to your local pharmacy and buy some IQ. You're about two quarts low.

You know Vlad the Cad, I was talking with my counter part, Dee Jones II, and we realized that the reason you have responded irrationally to the Great Genetic Challenge is that the actual results terrify you. The very thought of finding out that you are touched by the "tar-brush" has un-nerved you.

I truly feel sorry for you. And I was also thinking that you perhaps realized long ago that you were not pure, since you claim to have an oversize penis. So you see, it ain't ALL bad having some black blood running thru your veins, eh? Now don't that make you feel better about Gran Pappy Vlads' taste for that sweeet, dark chocolate?
Now, I was also wondering since oeo has been quiet lately, do you have him tied over a barrel in the basement with a pinky ball stuffed in his mouth?

The Dee Jones Collective signing out.

Kunstler, thanks for showing your true colors.

Yes, it's those damned Republicans. Have mercy. That just drains me of energy.

Vlad,

In 1995, when I was still very much involved in the tavern pool league, I wrote this poem about some customers entering my hang out, the Bottle and Cork.

Package Goods

From the back, black dudes, hats askew,
With practiced cool walks saunter through
And at the coolers choose the clinking quarts of brew
Their culture tells them to.

Looks subconciously convey, "You don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you."

They pay up front then scan the bar again
For chicks they'd like to know
But seeing none for them
Tuck crinkly bags of Red Bull under arm
And through the side door slip from view.

Better 2 quarts than a half-gallon in a ten gallon hat...
Now you should know better that IQ is only sold at centers of Higher Education, such as Haaaarvard, and Yaaaale.

You however could use a nice brain enema, and you can do it at home: Go out to the yard, get the garden hose and insert it in.......

You do know which end to insert it in, don't cha?
Well, try not to get confused and make a mistake.
One end is good, the other end, well, not so good.
Now, the IQ test part of this is: Lets wait and see if killakommie knows which end to put it in.

dum-dee-dumm-dee-dumm-dee-dummm-deee...

can you get back to us and let us know how it went? Was it nice and refreshing, or just painfull? Enquiring minds need to know.

Dee Jones III

I think a lot of caution is warranted in discussing racial superiority/inferiority for two reasons: slavery and the Holocaust.

I think even white supremacists would concede that bringing people here in chains was a monstrous evil no matter what their colour because, no matter if you are convinced that blacks are inferior, blacks are people. I think that even a convinced racist would have to ask himself how this practice could have gone on for so long in a supposedly Christian society.

I don't think I'm being naive. IMO, that slavery went on for so many centuries is basic evidence of the human herd mentality ie you ignore the evidence of your own eyes, your common sense and your basic sense of justice and fairness because everyone else is doing it. We go along with evil if everyone else is.

Same idea with the Holocaust. Suppose a lot of people or most people disliked Jews. How could this possibly have translated into herding women and children into gas chambers? Should this not have offended even the most dedicated Nazi's sense of honour and decency? How does it get to the point where such actions are acceptable in what was the most advanced and educated society in Europe? And I don't buy the garbage that the average German didn't know.

I don't think that people like Vlad should be made to shut up. I don't think he is bad but I think he is seriously mistaken. I think racist views need to be aired out and countered because a lot of people have the same views. We know where this can go because we've been there before and I don't think we want to go there again.

You got me there, Dee. Too clever for me. You beat me with your wit. And you had to use only half.

That would be piss your pants hilarious.

I suppose you heard about that prank in the WalMart where that teenage kid announced over the store PA system that black people have to leave the store immediately? That was a really inventive gag and worth every minute of shit that kid is going to take. I wish I'd thought of something like that myself. I'll bet his friends are still rolling on the floor and I'll bet his father is getting cramps trying not to laugh.

I’m going to interrupt all this trolling and race baiting to talk about peak oil – remember that?

The British Government held a supposedly secret meeting on Monday morning (March 22) with a minister sitting down with two peak oil groups, “energy descent” group Transition Network and the oil industry.

One of the participants – Transition Network’s Rob Hopkins – blogged about the whole “fascinating and frustrating” process. He was allowed to talk about it, just not name names.

He suggested that, in retrospect, it may be regarded “as the day when UK government finally starting to ‘get’ peak oil.”

But of more interest to us - a mainly North American audience - are the oil industry insider’s comments. Hopkins quotes him saying: “According to his company, 2004 was what he called the ‘inflection point’, the beginning of the global production plateau for conventional oil. In 2005 oil stopped being cheap, and will never be again. He stated that it is supply flow that is more important than reserves. We know now, he said, that $150 a barrel ‘breaks the machine’, that the world can’t function above that price, it is the price that causes recessions. If something is very expensive, it doesn’t really matter how much is left if we can’t afford it.”

Looks to me like ‘inflection point’ is the industry code for peak oil.

I’ve blogged about it, where you can find more links to follow the story: http://peakgeneration.blogspot.com/

You say: "But they are inferior to the Indians because they generally give away other people's money and jobs."

You have a really good point. When we brought in official bilingualism more than 40 years ago it had the effect of disenfranchising 75% of the population ie English speakers. To get anywhere in the civil service an Anglophone had to speak good French,a Francophone only needed to know broken English. Back in the 1970s/80s/90s (and to some extent even now) the judiciary, the civil service, the military, the most powerful federal cabinet ministries, were headed up by francophones. Plus the Prime Minister.

Not fair? You're fucking right not fair. To accommodate the "French Fact" we instituted this official bilingualism, got rid of our glorious old Red Ensign, suppressed our history, crapped on our British heritage, had government by and for Quebeckers and had nothing but Quebeckers as Prime Ministers for 40 years, spent the better part of a decade trying to amend our constitution to suit Quebeckers, replaced the leadership of our federal institutions with Quebeckers.

So what happens? We were rewarded for all this by Quebeckers with two referendums on secession. During which we all sat quietly hardly daring to clear our throats. Disgraceful.

Am I contemptuous of the idiot fucking liberals in this country who advocated all this bullshit that wasted torrents of money and time and derailed lives and careers and who derided anyone that objected to this travesty as a far right extremist neanderthal redneck bigot? You betcha.

My former coworker worked for 20 years in the provincial civil service and he told me he saw job postings which said, in civil servant jargon, that white men need not apply. Fucking mind boggling. MIND BOGGLING.

I think special privilege/racial preference is a really stupid, stupid idea. All I want is just basic fairness and common sense.

How can slavery and gassing Jews happen?

Simply convince yourself that they aren't really humans -- then they become animals to exploit for their labor or vermin to exterminate. People can talk themselves into whatever set of "facts" they need to justify any behavior they want.

Yup, kinda like what's happening to Palestinians right now.

Why thank you killa. And I didn't even have to use that much. Who did you get to explain it to you?

And CASH: I don't think Vlad the Bad should be made to shut up, he is too darn hilarious. Sheesh, every time I read his posts, I can just picture him sitting in his underground bunker fulla spam & ammo, dressed in his white sheets and KKK hoodie, typing out his racist spew one letter at a time. Geeesss.... prime-time TV sitcoms aren't nearly as funny, not in a long time.
Say, thats an idea to pitch to Hollywood: Vlad - The Racially Pure Half-Black Klansman. Shit, a laugh a second!!! People will actually be rolling on the floors spewing milk out thier noses!!
Hey, even better, it can be a reality show, with the actual Vlad His-self!!! Dressed in a nice Martha Stewart 1000 thread-count set of sheets, it couldn't GET any whiter than that!!!
Watcha say Vlad, wanna go on TV? I'll put the call into some of my Big-nosed Bros'.

Dee,

Most of the time your posts just piss me off but this one had me howling with laughter. The whole Racially Pure Half-Black Klansman as a sitcom concept is not totally off the wall.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson"

I wonder who did the work on Thom's plantation?

You sure do project, Vlad.

I don't feel inferior to anyone. I don't want to give anything away to anyone. I don't want to oppress anyone.

I want to live in harmony with my fellow human beings and the planet, in a sustainable manner with each person contributing to the work and each person sharing in the proceeds.

You can scoff if you want, but I'm spelling out my beliefs so that you cannot ascribe your bizarre fantasies to me anymore.

"I wonder who did the work on Thom's plantation?"

My guess is, everyone associated with it.

Joe "gets it".

"The political left once supported these workers, stood on the lines taking its beatings at the plant gates alongside them. Now, comfortably ensconced in the middle class, the American left sees the same working whites as warmongering bigots, happy pawns of the empire. That is writing working folks off too cheaply, and it begs the question of how they came to be that way -- if they truly are. To cast them as a source of our deep national political problems is ridiculous. They are a symptom of the problems, and they may be making it worse because they are easily manipulated, or because they cannot tell an original idea from a beer fart. But they are not the root cause by any means. The left should take its cues from Malcolm X, who understood the need to educate and inform the entire African-American society before tackling the goal of unity. Same goes for white crackers. Nobody said it would be easy."

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2005/02/poor_white_and_.html

"The maintenance of this government is our business, and not mine. I wish you to remember, now and forever, that if the Union of these States and the liberties of this people shall be lost, it is but little to any one man of fifty-two years of age, but a great deal to the thirty millions of people who inhabit these United States and to their posterity in all coming time. IT IS YOUR BUSINESS TO RISE UP AND PRESERVE THE UNION AND LIBERTY FOR YOURSELVES, and not for me". quote by ABRAHAM LINCOLN (Republican), at Indianapolis, IN

"The Chechens are very strong and the Jews control the so called Russian Maffia from what I've heard. Seven of the Eight Great Oligarchs were Jews. So again the Jews tried to despoil Russia as they did under Lenin."

Interesting point. However, despite Obshina's savage reputation, the russian ethnic mafia was just as bad. Solntsevskaya and Izmaylovskaya were practically ethnic russian. Jews came to power because they had an anchor in US - Brighton Beach, which ethnic whites lacked.
But they soon caught on. Here's a wiki quote on Yaponchik:

"Ivankov was arrested by the FBI in June 8, 1995, charged with the extortion of several million dollars from an investment advisory firm run by two Russian businessmen, and in June the next year was convicted along with two co-defendants."

My point? When everything crashed, the whites developed a ''healthy'' statistic in the criminal underworld along with the Chechens and the Jews, bending the anarchy in their favour and showing their true colours.

Dee, your idea for a Vlad TV show had me almost spewing my coffee on my keyboard -- great stuff!

I will defend your right to voice your ideology right up to the point where your ideology attempts to wrap chains around my ankles or force me into a locked box-car with bars on the windows.

Then you will become my enemy and I will use any means at my disposal to oppose you.

I have been driving a school bus for almost eight semesters and I love my kids. They are all full of life and are naturally loving and friendly. I have been driving middle-class and ghetto kids of all ethnic groups: Asians, Africans, Europeans, East-Indians, Latins etc... These children are the most relaxed, tolerant, open, friendly, well-balanced, studious, diverse, conversant group of future adult people in the world. Man, there is hope written all over their innocent young faces. I really love them.

As a hard-bitten, old, devil I find it very heartening to be around such a fine group of young American people. You know, I think this polyglot mix of people is a blessing and not a curse. Just as a diverse mix of plants is healthy for an ecosystem I think a conflux of diverse people is a social strength and not a weakness. I hope I can model something positive for these children: tolerance and understanding.

Their families migrated to this country to participate in something new and different from the old country. They came with pride and determination to mix into a new milieu; to become citizens. Many of them are very loyal to the USA dream and ideology. I think it's a disservice to impugn their integrity and accuse them of malfeasance.

These children are heading into the eye of the storm and are going to need each other in the enormous trials and tribulations they will be faced with in life ahead. God bless them all.

Finally we are in agreement: Dee - Dumm. (sic) too.

If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets. You may want to live in harmony, but the beliefs of you and your cohort don't make for peace. Don't try to weasel out of it - you said Whites are morally inferior. Does that not imply that they need to be punished, taught a big lesson, or make reparations for their misdeeds? And not only does your kind persecute my people by affirmative action programs of all kinds, but you have in effect given the green light to Minorities to seek direct vengeance against us. Don't act all innocent. You're not, ideologically speaking.

Besides AA, there is the travesty of Politically Correct Education in which White kids are taught to hate themselves and spit on their own Culture. This too leads to genocide. If the mind (culture) goes, the body (White Race) will follow.

Oh and as far as the World Wars - real Conservatives were against both. There were huge peace demonstrations - all of which have been written out of history. The Dissidents were called "isolationists" in WW1. In WW2, they were called "anti-semites".

I have no doubt that if America holds together, the same terrible policy will inevitably be enacted with Spanish instead of French. It becomes inevitable as the Mexicans and Central Americans are spreading everywhere - and are always major users of social services. So from that insane point of view, it actually makes sense. But unlike Canada, we will not survive this purge - Thank Gott. The States will begin to break away in twos and threes. The Mexicans are far more alien and hostile to us than the French were to Canada.

How is the mutual feeling between the two groups now? Are any of the English filled with murderous rage against the French themselves? Are any of the French remorseful for putting Canada and the Enlish through this ordeal?

With a policy like this, the Mexicans wouldn't even have to break the Southwest off - they could in effect take the whole of the US turning everyone else into de facto serfs.

My quoting of Emily Dickinson's line "avalanche of sun" must have convinced you of my essential humanity. A warrior is not just a soldier must less a grunt. We must love life and appreciate what we're trying to save. The communist savages who lead the French Revolution were mostly dark skinned men of surpassing ugliness according to Buwller Lytton. They delighted in guillotening in young Blonde countesses and tossing their heads by their long tresses yelling "let's send them all back to the swamps of Germany"

I'm not saying that Nordics are the most or only beautiful ones just that they are in most danger of extinction. In any case, thank you for your kind words.

Not a bad little poem. Did you ever dare to hustle any of them?

I'm so White that I can't be lightened up. You must choose a side. Not to choose is to choose the vanishing status quo. Not to choose is to be a de facto ally of the System and an enemy of the Volk.

What do you think of War Doc's post to the effect that the new Health Care Plan is just a re-warmed version of what the Insurance Industry already put forward a few years ago? Was there any negative impact in the relevant sectors of the Market after it was signed? If not, could that be evidence that the whole thing is just an act on the part of the Republicans to sucker and appease their angry base?


Good observation, Martin. It is
PRECISELY when life gets difficult
and forces people to mix with those
they allegedly "love" under trying
circumstances that most self-aggrandizing
egalitarianism gets proved false.

I also share you sentiments about the
overweening attacks on Vlad IN THE
ABSENCE OF DEMOGRAPHIC DATA ABOUT
CRIME AND EDUCATION. Indeed, if their
case was truly intellectually and
morally superior they would be fighting
fire with fire (i.e., data with data)
instead of simply "declaring" Vlad
morally incorrect.

People who simply vent hackneyed PC
"truisms" which are about as "true"
as Orwellian slogans are bad enough
but I'm dead certain that in their
own lives, as far as race is concerned,
they do NOT "walk the walk".

When I hear about racially PC people
having recreation in ghettos and barrios,
moving to ghettos and barrios, and having
50% or more of their INTIMATE friends from
other ethnicities, I might believe a tenth
of their bullshit.

In the absence of that, it's just self-
congratulatory jaw-flapping.


Eleuthero


Ward Connerly is quite a story for the
self-loathing racial egalitarians out
there. He was the head of the Univ.
of California Board of Regents. Ward
Connerly is a BLACK MAN.

He called the bluff of the phony
egalitarians and the reverse-racist
blacks and Hispanics in THE most
direct way: He made the UC selection
process TOTALLY COLOR-BLIND. The
people deciding on admissions had
NO data about an applicant's race
and could not even see their NAME.

Result? Chinese got in disproportionately.
Whites were next. Hispanics and blacks
scraped the bottom like they've been doing
since they came to these shores.

Since Connerly converted to the color-blind
admission system, he has had an estimated
50,000 DEATH THREATS. When he tries to
speak at colleges and universities, he's
shouted down by the now intellectually-
hobbled phony egalitarians who were handed
a true, color-blind system.

He made MERIT be the #1 criterion. Gee,
we can't have a country based on true
merit, now can we??? America is on its
way to self-imolation and self-destruction
at least partly because we have lost our
respect for stark truth.

If truth isn't "pretty" we reject it with
as much fervor as Stalinist Russia rejected
any economic statistics that weren't doctored.


Eleuthero

The book, Republican Treason, by Joseph Burrell backs up Mr Kunstler's premise in this week's CFN.

Excerpt from the introduction to the book:

"My purpose in this book is to show the un-American and indeed the treasonous nature of the Republican Party. When I say that the Republican Party is treasonous, I mean that it is hostile to the democratic government of the [USA] and that it has tried to establish a foreign ideology -
fascism - in the place of the democratic system established by the American Revolution."

How did [that demented psychopath] "do it" to a cultured country like Germany? Very easily.

His hate filled rhetoric appealed to a dis-affected, dis-enfranchised working class bled white by centuries of aristocratic excesses, patriarchy and warfare. His anti-Jewish rhetoric had deep roots going back centuries; it appealed to a unhappy public looking for scapegoats to blame for their poverty, confusion and misery. When his NAZI Party started to grow in political clout it became increasingly unwise to show dissent or disdain for the prevailing political ideology. A tipping point was reached with the elimination of the political opposition through intimidation and outright murder. The rest of Germany signed on with a vengeance when it became obvious what ideology would prevail in the contest. It was very easy - for a populace conditioned by centuries of patronization and domination by the ruling plutocrats - to project their need for a "strong" father figure onto the likes of that pompous, posing, psychotic bombast.

Unfortunately I see a similar stage being set here in McPetroculture USA for another pompous, posing, psychotic bombast to "do it" to us.

Also, that someone could be a female. She could be positioned to "fly under the radar" of public scrutiny with a big smile and quasi-populist rhetoric.

To deflect the rage of the ill-informed public;
I see the Mexicans being positioned - in the hate mongering, right-wing, corporate controlled media - to be the convenient scapegoat.

Good luck sweet democracy; your big test has just begun.

Okay then (those of you who base all political considerations on "race" and "culture"), what is it that you want from the rest of us?

Do you hope to persuade us to join you in a race war? A legislative purge of "the other"? To convince us of our hypocrisy (to what end)? To tell you, "You're correct"? Do you think the Long Emergency (tm) is a prime/convenient time for mass killings (in the quest for "purity")? Perhaps we'll shelter and feed you in exchange for your wisdom and verbosity? Do you simply enjoy pushing our outrage buttons? (Sorry, mine are about worn down to mere nubs.)

I'm just trying to figure out what it is you're doing HERE with this kind of rhetoric. Aren't there other websites that would welcome it? Although serious discussion is being provoked, I'm kinda mystified. Please be direct; it's past time for long-winded nuance.

From one hard-bitten curmudgeon to another, thanks for that little glimmer of light in a dark and dangerous time of psychopathy run amok. Best regards.

My dreams may not come true, but your's won't either, and the attempt to make yours come true would be horribly bloody.

I never said that whites were morally inferior, just that they aren't superior.

The inability of your cadre to think beyond our present society is obvious.

Eleuthero insists that we must move to the ghetto, or be hopelessy hypocritical.

He also insists that only those who go to college are worthy of respect and good paying jobs.

I have said before and I will say it again, there is no reason that every person cannot have a decent life, no matter if they are educated or intelligent or whatever.

After our hurricane, I appreciated those uneducated men who showed up and cleared the trees and repaired the electricity. Should they be paid less than the college educated that manipulate numbers on a computer?

In whose world?

There are a whole lot of people that I don't like. I even wish they weren't around. That doesn't mean that I believe that I have more right to live on this planet than they do. Why should I?

There are too many people on this planet and a lot of them are assholes. Deal with it.

The only way that you can live a decent life is for them to live a decent life.

Otherwise, you end up holed up in your fortress, quaking with fear, armed to the teeth and having a miserable paranoid existence.

And you wonder why you can't convince the rest of us to join you!

M'gawd, I used to hate and fear old people in my youth and now I look, talk and act just like they used to do! Those same aforementioned school youth lampoon and mock me but I tell them that I will have the last laugh in 40 years when they look in the mirror and see their Dad (or Mom) staring back at them.

With all this senseless breeding going on,how can anyone expect a decent life?
Meantime never forget the USS Liberty or what followed the Weimar Republic.

There isn't murderous rage against the French (and they aren't remorseful, far from it) but exasperation is manifesting itself in entirely predictable ways.

West of Ontario the word "liberal" is poison especially in Alberta and people loath Quebec. People elect Conservatives. That area of the country is something like Blue State but without the religiosity. Plus because of it's resource base like oil, uranium, potash, farming etc it is hugely prosperous.

There is real animosity between east and west. The two westernmost provinces have basically said fuck it, have established a free trade zone within their combined borders, have established their own version of the Canada Pension Plan (akin to Social Security) and have combined other initiaves.

What you're seeing, in my opinion, is the sprout of a new country. Will it actually happen? I don't know. Is it viable on its own? You bet. Population of around 8 million, giant, rich, fertile land area. If the entire West effs off it will have a population of around ten million. Huge land area. It will be the place to be.

If, as you predict, North America cracks up into smaller countries this will be one of them and one of the better ones. It will be exciting (if it happens). I wish I were younger. Go West young man.

"I never said that whites were morally inferior, just that they aren't superior."

I will defend Wage here. She never said that whites were morally inferior. But I did.

70 million people murdered in the 20th century, whites murdering whites ... white German, Russian, American barbarians who are morally inferior to such an extent that whites used 15000 pound Daisy Cutter bombs against civilians, whites used napalm bombs against civilians, whites used atomic bombs against civilians. In the 20th century you didn't find Blacks, or Asians, or any other racial group using such weapons.

Whites are morally inferior, retarded actually, because whites don't sufficient morality to care about the effect of their technological advances.

White morality is so impoverished they are unable to control their technological knowledge, so that it doesn't indiscriminately murder other human beings.

On the contrary, whites use their technological knowledge to develop weapons intentionally designed to murder civilians... and they use them.

Daisy Cutter bombs destroyed anything within a 600 yard radius. That's six football fields for you sports fans.

Arabs have nuclear weapons. Indians have nuclear weapons. Jews have nuclear weapons. Koreans have nuclear weapons. And kinds of non-white peoples have nuclear weapons. BUT THEY DON'T USE THEM.

Nuclear weapons destroy LARGE AREAS INDISCRIMINATELY and no other people in the world have used nuclear weapons against human beings, only MORALLY INFERIOR whites.

What do I want? Stop encouraging third world cultures to take root here. Stop trying to turn this continent into a third world shithole. Stop crapping on our British, our Christian and Western heritage, stop suppressing our history. Stop acting as if to be a Christian is a bad thing, as if Christians are mouth breathing imbeciles. Tell people explicitly, when they come to the US or Canada, welcome, now speak English and salute this flag and stop trying to plant your own. When you go to see an international soccer match you wave OUR flag, you fucking cheer for OUR team, NOT your old national team and you don't fucking DARE boo our national team when it comes on the pitch. Clear so far?

I'm drained, Vlad, over to you.

I'm curious, when did you became a racist?

Was it your family environment that encouraged it, was it your friends and associates or did you have bad experiences with white people?

James Howard Kunstler

& all that has posted ...thanks.

I see on all the blogs the health care has everyone talking...this is good

'BUT THEY DON'T USE THEM'

hey buddy, not if but when!!!
'they' [100+ nations] havent used them yet.

I have been driving a school bus...WHERE? WHAT CITY OR STATE?

what i see in LA is 'tattoos on skulls' and 14 year old latino mothers.

i see Obamanations appointed a judge whos sis is head of LARAZA.
so ashok come on back to the states...if you were born here.

and who ever gave the peak oil nod thanks...many here i assume have read Jims book so we know.

Mr Kunstler

I see your thinking and posting as the same as chris martenson.

as the same as Charles H Smith.


http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/daily-digest-march-23/37273


had this post that set the site off..

ashvinp

(snip)
The health care bill that passed is clearly constitutional, so that's a bad argument to make against it. The bill is not perfect and actually didn't go far enough, because it leaves insurance companies in charge, and we're talking about human lives here. Anyone who thinks the we are not headed for a depression, regardless of what the government does, has extremely idealistic expectations. Local and state governments are also going to face severe debt problems, regardless of some added medicaid expenditures that will most likely be offset by saving ER expenditures on the uninsured. These debt problems have been decades in the making and the free market gurus are the ones who led us here. Now they have the nerve to say that "no this has nothing to do with us, its Obama's health care policies that will be the downfall of our country and only the free markets can save us."

If we allow ourselves to believe these manipulative arguments, then we are truly lost. The working class people in our country are destined to suffer through a depression and there is no avoiding it. The question is how we as a society will deal with it. Will we take care of those suffering the most and sacrifice for the greater good, or will we fight tooth and nail until there is a violent revolution or civil unrest? When the Soviet Union collapsed, the people suffered but also remained relatively stable because they had access to health care, could keep their public housing and could easily commute using public transportation among other things. We may not be so lucky with housing, transportation and our general ability to deal with hardships, but at least now 40,000 people won't die every year while the economy continues to plummet.

And I understand why people hesitate to accept projections of defecit reductions and lowering health care costs, and I don't think these projections are perfect. But the fact that the official statistics have been manipulated in other areas does not necessarily mean it happens in every area. Either way, we have been paralyzed with fear of action for way too long and this reform is a well-neeeded break from that viscous cycle.


now here is my point.

ashvinp.....posted this.....

The commerce clause was used to mandate restaurants and other private businesses to serve people of all races, which is a form of economic inactivity, so this mandate is not unprecedented. I don't see a big difference between requiring a person to buy insurance from a private health insurance company and requiring a person to pay taxes to the government for the provision of public goods. Maybe the technical constitutional argument is closer than it seems, but I doubt the Court will buy it even with 5 conservative justices.

The analogy to car insurance is not as simple as you make it out to be. The premise for a mandate to purchase insurance is that if you engage in an activity that routinely imposes costs on society (car accidents are inevitable), then the government can regulate that activity. No matter how healthy or responsible people think they are (and how much control they think they have), accidents and illnesses are inevitable and there is no way we are going to just let uninsured people die. So if states require ERs to provide treatment to people regardless of insurance, which they obviously should, then taxpayers shouldn't be required to foot that bill. And there aren't many good reasons for not being able to get insurance after this reform.

Also, as mentioned in another post, there are several limits on the ways fines can be assessed for violating the mandate.


for this he was blasted ......why...../he made his point...

here is the point..

The analogy to car insurance is not as simple as you make it out to be. The premise for a mandate to purchase insurance is that if you engage in an activity that routinely imposes costs on society (car accidents are inevitable), then the government can regulate that activity. No matter how healthy or responsible people think they are (and how much control they think they have), accidents and illnesses are inevitable and there is no way we are going to just let uninsured people die. So if states require ERs to provide treatment to people regardless of insurance, which they obviously should, then taxpayers shouldn't be required to foot that bill

Cash; you say:
"What do I want? Stop encouraging third world cultures to take root here. Stop trying to turn this continent into a third world shithole. Stop crapping on our British, our Christian and Western heritage, stop suppressing our history. Stop acting as if to be a Christian is a bad thing, as if Christians are mouth breathing imbeciles. Tell people explicitly, when they come to the US or Canada, welcome, now speak English and salute this flag and stop trying to plant your own. When you go to see an international soccer match you wave OUR flag, you fucking cheer for OUR team, NOT your old national team and you don't fucking DARE boo our national team when it comes on the pitch. Clear so far?"

Crystal. I don't have a problem with any of these things, as you're not advocating anything EXCLUSIONARY. All these things are INclusionary (in my book).

As far as the religion thing, we'll just have to disagree on the peril or benefit that may pose. But then, that's strictly a PERSONAL stand, so as long as it's kept out of a mandated/governmental arena, I'm certainly not threatened by it. Okay?

Thanks for the response, that's what I wanted to know, and I feel you've answered honestly. Next?

ashvinp wrote.....and was blasted


I paladin lost my respect for most on..chrismartenson.com


as I spend my money to some sites..


I will look hard who is of my support.

paladin

Charles Hugh Smith


http://www.oftwominds.com/blogmar10/healthcare-responsibility03-10.html

as you say look a after your own health......LOL

Cash said:

I'm curious, when did you became a racist? Was it your family environment that encouraged it, was it your friends and associates or did you have bad experiences with white people?

Cash, I became a racist when I was still a child. What you refer to as "bad experiences" does not begin to describe the terrorism directed at black people in the Midwest USA in the 1950's.

I remember the KKK rallies, the public beatings with no arrests, I remember the "nigger don't let the sun set on you" signs, I still remember being refused admittance to public places.

When did you become a racist? Bad experiences?

March 22, 2010 7:13 AM,Jim,that's a date to mark on the calendar!!! Nice.It's the comments that get me. People do not seem to get how close we are to turning into one big GLOBAL HAITI. Thanks for keeping a few more of my brain cells alive. We are fighting over structures that will not last. We are spending much time on what will not last long after Peak Oil. There is no way to reason or pray our way out of this mess. We need to think before we reach the pit--not after we reach it. Ice water anyone?

To all the sky is falling people who frequent this site:
1. you have a limited life span on this planet
2. you are a speck of insignificant nothing in an endless universe.
3. stop being so fucking tribal and self-important.

Enjoy life!

Cash,
A P.S.
Not sure I phrased the 2nd part of my query intelligibly (common problem with me), so I'll give it another go.

In what way[s] do you feel your views on "race"* and "culture"* might be germane to a discussion of the coming decline? (I understand that's pretty subjective, but what the hey, as long as I'm asking...)

*quotation marks used to emphasize the huge flux of definition inherent in these terms, even to the point of irrelevancy to some.

Ha! Now that's "germane"!

I've used up too much space (oh boy, I can see it comin')... back to observing mode.

This is not reform; it is a bailout of bankrupt insurance companies at the expense of average working people, obtained through coercion and extortion. Forcing Americans to buy insurance from private, for-profit, deregulated companies is clearly unconstitutional. The idea of a mandate to purchase insurance is a reactionary Republican invention, and we want no part of it. Furthermore, this bill’s $500 billion in Medicare cuts are a direct attack on the economic rights of Americans implemented under the New Deal and the Great Society, and will cause incalculable suffering and human tragedy. These colossal Medicare cuts will inevitably result in rationing, delay, and the denial of care, causing patients to die needlessly. The spirit of this bill is that of OMB Director Peter Orszag, the sinister Malthusian bureaucrat who is behind recent attempts to deny Americans Pap smears, mammograms, and PSA tests – as cost-cutting measures.

Instead, we should set a national goal of extending US life expectancy by five years over the coming two decades. Funding for Medicare must be increased by making Wall Street pay their fair share with a 1% Tobin tax or Wall Street sales tax on derivatives and other speculative transactions, by clawing back the TARP bailout from the zombie banks, and by ending the Iraq and Afghan wars. Give every person the voluntary option to join Medicare For All at any age for $100 per person per month, with generous allowances and fee waivers for families, the unemployed, students, the working poor, and the destitute. Further savings can come through a fully funded national and international crash program of biomedical research to find cures for heart disease, cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, and other dread diseases.

In addition, health care requires more than insurance. We need to build 1,000 modern, state of the art hospitals with 500 beds each just to reach the minimum of targets set by the Hill-Burton Act of 1946. We need to train 250,000 doctors over the next ten years. These goals require serious investments, not subsidies to predatory insurance companies who are going broke because of their reckless derivatives bets.

You get my vote.

"Forcing Americans to buy insurance from private, for-profit, deregulated companies is clearly unconstitutional."
=======================

Print Geopol's post, highlight the above sentence in yellow and post it to your bulletin board. Someday when the Supreme Court finishes dealing with this issue return to your BB and see if forcing Americans to buy insurance was clearly unconstitutional. Then dispose of printout.

"The spirit of this bill is that of OMB Director Peter Orszag, the sinister Malthusian ..... etc"
=========================

Well what do you expect from a man who wears such an obvious rug?

"Instead, we should set a national goal of extending US life expectancy by five years over the coming two decades."
=======================

We should do no such thing. If anything we should set a goal of reducing life expectancy by 5 years ... hell, make it 10 ... for the reasons I expressed earlier this week. In short: save money and improve quality of life. (For God's sake, look at the gastly pictures of hundred + year olds sitting in wheelchairs, attended by 75 year old daughters. These centenarians are not looking forward to their next Carribean cruse with Carnival.)

"Further savings can come through a fully funded national and international crash program of biomedical research to find cures for heart disease, cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, and other dread diseases."
=====================

Fully funded by whom???

"These goals require serious investments"
=====================

And I suppose, if necessary, we should print the money for these investments?

Come clean Geopol, your real name is Paul Krugman.

Anybody who is working and who is stupid enough to think it is "unconstitutional" to "force" you to pay insurance should look at the paycheck you receive. Notice something there labeled OASI and FICA that you are being forced to pay every time you receive a paycheck? Know what FICA and OASI stand for?

Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASI)

Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA)

Stop drinking the Republican Kool-Aid and stop pretending you are some kind of patriots opposing "tyranny"... you don't have any idea what tyranny is.

Correction: you don't have any idea what tyranny is unless you have black skin and have lived through Jim Crow ... without being castrated for raising your white-imposed downward gaze and looking at a white woman.

Jim Crow is further proof of the moral inferiority of white people.

The Jim Crow laws were state and local laws in the United States enacted between 1876 and 1965. They mandated de jure racial segregation in all public facilities, with a supposedly "separate but equal" status for black Americans. In reality, this led to treatment and accommodations that were usually inferior to those provided for white Americans, systematizing a number of economic, educational and social disadvantages.

"Anybody who is working and who is stupid enough to think it is "unconstitutional" to "force" you to pay insurance should look at the paycheck you receive."
=======================

If the above words are intended as a response to Geopol's post you have missed (deliberately, of course) his key words:

Forcing Americans to buy insurance from private, for-profit, deregulated companies is clearly unconstitutional.

MY comment, on the other hand, suggests that the courts will declare it constitutional nonetheless.

"MY comment, on the other hand, suggests that the courts will declare it constitutional nonetheless."

You are not a stupid teabagger, Qshtik ... I was not responding to Geopol ... and one more thing ... you are right that the court will declare it constitutional.

You're a real crankass tonight. What happened, your boyfriend dump you?

What is a crankass? I've never heard that word before. Not sure I would ever use it since I try to follow Safire's example, and I'm pretty sure he would never use it.

I'm not sure who ashvinp is, or whether you agree with him, but there is an enormous difference between paying taxes for the common good, including health care, and being forced to pay a private for- profit insurance company massive amounts of money, when we already know that the private insurance companies do not actually insure that their subscribers can get health care paid for when they need it.

It's true that is the law that ERs must provide emergency treatment and stabilization to everyone who presents for treatment, but the uninsured are not covered by taxpayers. Where the hell did you get that idea? The victim is solely responsible for the bill, and uninsured people are actually charged more than insured people.

This bill was a step forward, alright. A step toward further corporate serfdom.

To contend that it will help Americans get health care is to be too deluded to function.

In about 6 more hours we'll be reading JHK's Mar.29th message. That will be good. I admit I didn't like the spew of emotion carried in this weeks blog nor the written discussions aqfterwards.
I posted on March 25th a link to David Brook's "Broken Society" NYTimes editorial of March 19th. In that editorial Brooks writes about
the same themes of "The Long Emergency" brought to light by James Kunstler. Brooks thinks
there is a light in the dark night, a way to solve
all sorts of Long Emergency problems that don't involve hyperbole. I hope a discussion of that good editorial will cause a calming of this weeks troubled writings. God bless us all.

"What is a crankass? I've never heard that word before. Not sure I would ever use it since I try to follow Safire's example, and I'm pretty sure he would never use it."
========================

Around Oct 1998 Safire said in an On Language column in the NY Times that "crankass" was a portmanteau word, used colloquially in certain regions of NJ, combining the words cranky and asshole;0)

Jim, if you insist on being Paul Krugman's little brother, as you have for your past two articles, you will lose half your readership. I didn't even read this article after the first two paragraphs because I'm tired of the same old partisan crapola on both sides of the aisle. You need to decide whether you care more about getting the message out about peak oil and downsizing our car-based culture or about joining the Ministry of Truth of the Democratic Party.

My worries centre around culture. Unlike you race does not concern me. I think Vlad would call me a traitor to my race. Well, that would be his own view.

I value what's in a man's heart and in his mind not the colour of his skin or the texture of his hair. My wife is from China, when I look into her eyes and her family's and friends' eyes I see people like me and my own. I look into a black man's eyes and I see a man.

Racists like you would call that utopian. But I've gotten to know enough people from various races to know that race and culture are two different things and that theories on racial superiority and inferiority just don't hold water. What a lot of racist white people say about non whites in terms of racial inferiority were probably said a few thousand years ago by non whites about whites.

I think races evolved as adaptations to local climatic conditions and as a result of inbreeding. For the health of the human population as whole I think that intermarriage between races is a good thing. Again racists would call that traitorous. Maybe you would roll your own eyes. Too utopian for you?

You ask me about my own racism. Again Asoka I don't think you read my posts, which is fine, that's up to you, but if you had read them you would know my worries centre around culture and not what somebody looks like.

"My worries centre around culture."

How can you preserve culture by constantly diluting it? How can you preserve culture when you bring children into the world confused of who and what they are? Are they not forced to adopt culture from both parents? Does this not destroy both cultures and replace it with something else? Popular culture is a hydra, a concoction of marketing, propoganda and hormones destined to fail because of it's contradictions. Chaos. Babylon. Confusion.

I agree culture evolves and it's messy and often bloody. Our own western culture has been moving onward for about three thousand years with additions from the ancient Jews, Christians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Muslims, etc to modern times.

Myself, I think it's gotten "better" over the centuries and I value what we have now. I think it serves us well. It's been bought by a lot of effort and lives over millenia. I don't want to trash it because that's the fashion in politically correct academic, literary and political circles.

"You think this is a coincidence?"

Do I think what is a coincidence? That when you removed the conjunction from my quote it became gramatically incorrect and less meaningful? No, I don't think that's a coincidence at all.

I don't believe in coincidence, or god for that matter. I do believe you missed the point, because the question I posed at the end of my post was obviously rhetorical. It was rhetorical when I first wrote it 12 years ago in college, and it's rhetorical today. See those people waving at you in the vanishing distance? That's the boat you missed sailing off into the horizon.


I hope that Mr. Obama's party can carry this message clearly into the electoral battles ahead, painting the Republican opposition for what it is:


This is not a left right idiotic discontinuity...
Under the Obama Admin this was escorted as a terrorist event....HA, A False flag state sponsored event under the guidance of you Friend Barry Soetoro...

The Detroit Christmas bomber was deliberately and intentionally allowed to keep his US entry visa as the result of a national security override issued by an as yet unknown US intelligence or law-enforcement agency with the goal of blocking the State Department’s planned revocation of that visa. This is the result of hearings held on January 27 before the House Homeland Security Committee, and in particular of the testimony of Patrick F. Kennedy, Undersecretary of State for Management. The rickety US government official version of the December 25 Detroit underwear bomber incident, which has been jerry-built over the past month and a half, has now totally collapsed, and key elements of the terrorism-spawning rogue network inside US agencies and departments are unusually vulnerable to a determined campaign of exposure.

These developments decisively confirm the analysis offered by the present writer in a Dec. 28, 2009 television interview on Russia Today.1 On that occasion, my estimate was that Mutallab was a protected patsy being used by rogue elements of the US intelligence community for the deliberate and intentional creation of a high profile incident with the goal of obtaining a large-scale political effect. On January 4, Richard Wolffe reported on the MSNBC Countdown program that the Obama White House was investigating whether the Detroit Christmas incident had been “intentionally” created by an intelligence network with an “alternative agenda.”2 It was in this report that Wolffe posed the alternative of “cock-up or conspiracy.”3 Unfortunately, Obama opted for the screw-up version on January 5.

Based on what was already known a few days after this incident, it was clear that normal screening and surveillance procedures had been scrapped and aborted in order to allow the youthful patsy Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab of Nigeria to board his flight from Amsterdam in the Netherlands to Detroit. Mutallab’s father, a rich, well known, and reputable Nigerian banker had gone to the US Embassy in his country and formally warned a State Department official as well as a CIA representative that his son was in Yemen and in all probability consorting with terrorists. Under normal circumstances, this report alone would have been more than enough to get Mutallab’s US visa revoked in the same way he had already been denied entry to Great Britain. He also would normally have been placed on the no-fly list, thus setting up two insuperable obstacles to getting on his Detroit bound flight and winging off to produce an incident which caused several weeks of public hysteria in this country, completely with demands for body scanners in airports. In addition, the US intelligence community had reports that a Nigerian was training with the purported “Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula” in Yemen. Obama had called a December 22 meeting with top CIA, FBI, and DHS officials because of reports of a terrorist attack looming during the Christmas holiday.

The January 27 hearings of the House Homeland Security Committee were also addressed by Michael Leiter, the AWOL Director of the National Counterterrorism Center, along with Jane Holl Lute, the Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security, who was sent in place of HHS Secretary Janet Napolitano, who boycotted the hearings. But the important testimony came from Kennedy, whose responsibilities include Consular Services, and therefore visas. In his opening statement, Kennedy offered a tortured circumlocution to describe what had happened. Attempting to head off the question of why the State Department had not revoked Mutallab’s visa, Kennedy stated:

“We will use revocation authority prior to interagency consultation in circumstances where we believe there is an immediate threat. Revocation is an important tool in our border security arsenal. At the same time, expeditious coordination with our national security partners is not to be underestimated. There have been numerous cases where our unilateral and uncoordinated revocation would have disrupted important investigations that were underway by one of our national security partners. They had the individual under investigation and our revocation action would have disclosed the U.S. Government’s interest in the individual and ended our colleagues’ ability to quietly pursue the case and identify terrorists’ plans and co-conspirators.” 4

The case of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab is not a matter of unconnected dots, but rather that of a protected patsy or puppet deliberately used by the US intelligence community for a Christmas Day provocation designed to facilitate US meddling in the civil war in Yemen, which is where Umar Farouk allegedly trained and was given his PETN device. Banker’s son Umar Farouk had been denied an entrance visa to Great Britain , and had been denounced to the US Embassy in Lagos, Nigeria as a possible terrorist by his own father in mid-November. His one-way ticket to Detroit was bought in Ghana for cash, and he reportedly entered Nigeria illegally. In Amsterdam , he was assisted at the Northwest Airlines gate by a “well-dressed Indian” who explained that Umar Farouk had no passport. He did have PETN, the same substance supposedly used by the mentally impaired shoe bomber Richard Reid in his abortive attack of eight years ago. In spite of all this, Umar Farouk’s US entry visa was never revoked, he never made it onto the no-fly list, and he was never thoroughly searched. These egregious lapses in normal procedure show that Umar Farouk was part of an orchestration sponsored by the CIA, which has now yielded 4 solid days of media hysteria. Obama has formulated his new version of the Axis of Evil, composed of Afghanistan-Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen. In Yemen, a civil war pits the Saudi-backed central government against the Iranian-backed Shiite Houthi rebels, whom the US has bombed at least twice this month. The goal here is to play Iran against Saudi Arabia so as to weaken both the pro-Moscow Achmadinejad government in Iran, and also those Saudi forces that are fed up with their status as a US protectorate. The US is openly now sponsoring a regroupment of “al Qaeda” (the CIA Moslem legion) in Yemen , including by sending fighters direct from Guantanamo . The new CIA-promoted entity synthetic entity is “Al Qaeda on the Arabian Peninsula or AQAP, a gaggle of US patsies, dupes, and fanatics which is claiming credit for the Umar Farouk incident. The US hopes to further dominate the exit from the Red Sea and the Suez Canal, while also easing pressure on the battered US dollar by jacking up the price of oil in an atmosphere of tension on the Arabian peninsula. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano is now Totalitariano to the left, and Incompetano to the right. Rather than harassing travelers, she should resign or be fired along with the other corrupt, bungling, or complicit officials of the Obama administration involved in this false flag provocation.

why should 70,000,000 ? be encouraged to visit each year? even from afghanistan etc?
why should a million ? each year be allowed to move to the usa?
why should millions be given low income mortgages when they are here illegally?

and thanks asok for admitting yr racism and hatred of whites. you and vlad can fight it out.

Mr Kuntsler, your commentary lacks objectivity at best, and at worst you are propagating the same hate mongering that you are accusing the Republicans of. You defend the democratic party as the only people who care. That is absurd, neither party is right. But to assert that the solution is to mandate that all citizens buy health care is actually playing right into the hands of the insurance companies in a way, by keeping them as the middle men in the system. How is requiring all citizens to pay for health insurance different from requiring all citizens to pay for health care, otherwise known as government controlled health care? The difference is that the insurance companies would still be making money from it....nice job. Insurance companies are in the business of risk management. To force them to cover everyone to include all those with pre-existing conditions effectively removes all of the risk management. they will cease to exist as an insurance company and simply become the middle man for the Feds and the hospitals.....absurd. That being said, can we look further into the root of the issue, and that is this misguided sense of entitlement. Where is it written that all Americans have the absolute right to the best health care, gauranteed by the Federal Govt. The fact is that anyone can purchase the best health care...they can afford. That fact will not change no matter what bill Congress may pass.

Mr. Kunstler, I am a long - time registered Republican and have found your comments both interesting and sensible - I totally agree that we can't continue with systems ordered as they are at present. I disagree with the "health care reform" bill as it will throw more money at the problem (via insurance companies) while over time lowering the quality of care for everyone. It would have been much simpler and less costly to put those still in need of insurance into a publically subsidized risk pool. That aside, this rant reveals a side of you I wasn't aware of. Disappointing as it shows you'll never be part of actual solutions. I guess it's a living though right?

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how true---"Can we afford to pay for anything?" seems to the battle cry of every Tom, Dick and jane today.

Health Care matters a lot especially to those that wanted the best service regarding their health. There are countries that have higher prices in terms health care services. The government have brought much attention to it because they look after the welfare of its citizens.

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