World War Three Anybody?


     When Alan Greenspan predicted three percent economic growth showing up in the reported figures for the third quarter of 2009, did he mean executive compensation packages?  Maybe the lesson here is: don't ask a crackhead to predict the future supply of crack.  Greenspan's greatest success may be to drive economics into such disrepute that it will be cut loose from the universities and only be taught by mail order or internet subscription from the same outfits that offer PhD's in astrology.  That is, before the universities themselves go broke.
     The predicament that the USA finds itself will not be "solved" at the scale of operation that we're accustomed to, and we should just stop wasting precious time and dwindling resources in the idle hope that it will be.  The failure to recognize this dynamic is the most impressive part of the meltdown.  The only thing that the federal government is likely to prove in the process is the ineffectiveness of its actions as applied to any of the raging current problems from the killing burden of hyper-debt to the brushfires of geopolitics. Congress will only make the health care system more complex. Both congress and President Obama will do everything possible to keep housing prices unaffordable -- in a quixotic effort to protect the collateral of the big banks. Capital will continue to vanish in the black hole of default.
     Something's got to give in the remaining three months of 2009.  My guess is that attention will shift overseas for a while.  This will not be due, as many probably think, to a cynical effort by the government to divert attention from the financial fiasco, but because the intrinsic tensions in the Middle East are reaching the snapping point.  Iran is being called out on its nuclear program.  If, from the start, it had just maintained the need for electric generating power in the face of dwindling fossil fuel reserves, they might have gone unchallenged.  As it happened, though, the elected leader of Iran made too many intemperate remarks about wiping other nations off the face of the earth, and this has only prompted the leaders of other nations to take his remarks at face value and presume that Iran's nuclear program was devoted to armaments, not electric power generation.
     So, now the USA has picked up the gauntlet.  If Iran doesn't act to demonstrate the de-activation of its bomb-making capacity, then the USA will try to impose sanctions depriving Iran of necessary imported supplies. (Iran actually imports gasoline, due to inadequate refineries.)  For sanctions to be effective, support will be required by other nations, including Iran's chief gasoline supplier, China.  What a delicate calculus this will be!  I rather imagine that China would not like to see the Middle East blow up. I'm not so sure about the nations of the Middle East though, or at least major parties in certain nations.  The rulers of Saudi Arabia would probably enjoy seeing Iran get into big trouble, since Iran is Saudi Arabia's most active antagonist, working tirelessly to destabilize the Kingdom. Al Qaeda interests dispersed in many nations would certainly cheer any mayhem.  The Taliban would love anything that takes the spotlight off them in Afghanistan.  The Russians are conflicted between the wish to enhance their own leverage in world affairs and their need to discipline Islamic maniacs along their own borders.  Europe is probably scared to death of anything that might threaten their energy lifeline.  Pakistan is too tormented to have a position, but its radical Islamist factions are probably on the side of disorder -- as the best remedy for the status quo.  If any of that spills over on India, as in the Mumbai bombing, then that flashpoint could turn to conflagration very quickly.  We forget about Turkey, which was the hegemonic player in the region for centuries until its swift decline after 1914, but it has potent military capability and very mixed feelings about the the Jihad to ruin the West (since it is partly of the West).  And finally there is Israel, the object of Iran's intemperate public statements.
     This is a dangerous situation.  I'm not so sure that Israel could launch an effective attack on Iran's nuclear infrastructure, but it might try anyway, especially if a US-backed sanctions effort fails to coalesce quickly.  I'm not sure Israel would seek permission from the US to do this, though the US would certainly be tasked with defending the shipping lanes in the Persian Gulf. Iran might succeed in sinking more than a couple of US ships-of-the-line with sunburn missles and other toys, and this would lead to the bigger danger of oil supplies being choked off to the rest of the world. The US air response would be impressive, but possibly not effective against hardened targets. The leaders of Iran might exult even if the Iranian people were swept into a maelstrom.  I imagine that what followed would be a very extravagant military frenzy amounting to World War Three, with European air forces and navies dragged in, with Hezbollah and Syria striking back at Israel, India and Pakistan possibly incinerating each other, and mayhem galore among the bystanders in Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan. There could easily be internal mischief in the UK, France, and Germany from angry immigrant populations, and "sleepers" could work some overdue hoodoo in the USA.  I don't know what Turkey would do, but it could be the biggest beneficiary of a bad regional meltdown, providing the only effective governance what remains in the region. China and Japan would probably just gape at the spectacle in wonder and nausea from the sidelines as they saw their energy supplies for years-to-come go up in flames.
     The G-20 nations would be crippled as global oil supplies were choked off indefinitely.  And if anyone -- Iran, or its friends inside the Kingdom -- managed to pull off a stunt such as blowing up the Ras Tanura oil terminal -- then a darkness will spread across places that were used to being lighted and they will stay dark a long time.
     I don't know if any of this will come to pass, but as I said, tensions have reached a breaking point, including the greater tensions of history, which seem to require periodic release no matter how poignant the Pete Seegar songs are.  It is perhaps, just another prime symptom of "overshoot," the world's way of shedding some of the toxic organisms that are making it so unhappy -- Gaia in a really bad mood.
     If nothing develops along these lines on the geopolitical scene, the USA is still stuck in its predicament of trying desperately to maintain an overscaled living arrangement, with no coherent public discussion of downscaling, re-scaling, or re-arranging things.  My guess is that this kind of restructuring only occurs when all other options have been exhausted. The last time the USA found itself in an intractable economic morass, World War Two came along and it made things all better here (after considerable sacrifice for us and catastrophe elsewhere). After World War Two, we ruled the world for a couple of generations. The outcome of World War Three would not be so favorable for us. At the very least, it would leave us attempting to run things on about one-quarter of the oil we're used to. That does not suggest a seamless transition between how we behave now and how the future will require us to behave differently.
    

320 Comments

Jim,
I believe you should emphasize more the hatred between Sunni and Shia. Many Sunni, e.g., Al Qaeda, a totally Sunni organization, despise Shiites even more than Jews. So, for example, you will never get an Al Qaeda chapter in Iran. Shiites include Iran, the leadership (only) of Syria, much of Iraq, Bahrain, and most of Yemen. Sunni include, well, everybody else. Some pundits in fact claim that in this sense Israelis and Iran are natural allies, if you can get your mind around that!

No need for a global conflagration. Ten percent of the worlds oil is shipped through the Ras Tanura oil terminal on the Persian Gulf. The destruction of that one single oil terminal would send oil prices into the stratosphere and trigger the end of civilization as we know it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbWGoPEN9l8

If push comes to shove and the Iranians or their proxies nuke Ras Tanura, then it is all over for the West. It's that simple.

===

We went shopping this past Sunday. Mall parking lots are slippery with shopkeeper’s guts. There were more unoccupancies than in smiles at a Willy Nelson concert. Real people with real mortgages are being foreclosed in bulk, commercial real estate is dead, 2009 tax revenues will be a "shock." Two 20 story luxury condo towers in Hutton Centre have 0% occupancy. Christmas will set national records if South Coast Plaza as ghost town is a leading indicator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Coast_Plaza

Kohl’s storewide announcements are now in Spanish. We had a spam snail mail $10 off card (no minimum purchase). I picked a black heavy cotton "tuxedo" all cotton t-shirt for Halloween, listed $20 and 50% off that. Linda picked an XXL bright orange leering pumpkin heavy cotton t-shirt, first Halloween then nightshirt, $20 and listed 50% off. Got to the register. Mex scanned the first bar code, scanned the card, scanned the other bar code, scanned the card. Tab came up $0 - didn't even charge 8.75% sales tax. We both kept a straight face and walked.

The California Academic Performance Index test given to all high school students says the average Los Angeles Unified School District graduate has an IQ of 84 (40% dropout rate from HS entry to six years later). $20 billion/year budget, 1177 schools, nearly 700,000 students, 8.9% white. The checker brightly smiled like a good Gamma should.

What to do? Roosevelt was unambiguous: Pearl Harbor. OK City was ignored, 11 Sept 2001 galvanized no national initiative (or even notice from Bush the Lesser reading The Pet Goat). Detroit/Dearborn Michigan has an enormous Muslim cohort and an intrusive abundance of mosques. I'm thinking 0300 hrs, an SUV making its way through the potholes, and a ~1 kt fizzle of a "stolen Russian" tactical nuke.

All we gotta do is wait them out.

If we attack..."The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, which followed World War II, called the waging of aggressive war "essentially an evil thing...to initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."" And indeed the world would further turn against us, and the Muslim world would be further unified.

If we attack with conventional forces, we open yet another front in an already overextended war in the Middle East, and drain the last bit out of our already exhausted forces. If attack with nukes, then WE would become the evil empire, and WWIII would be upon us.

If we let Iran do its thing, suddenly this Shi'ite nation has nukes in the middle of a Sunni region, and Israel and the U.S. would have a lot of new Arab allies against Iran. It would not dare to shoot missiles or the Arabs, the Israelis, and NATO, and even Russia, would be against it and Iran would likely become a sea of glass and scorpions.

Go ahead dummies. Make a second-rate nuke. See what happens.

Califoreclosure.... Big budget woes, and sky high unemployment tarnish the Golden State....

http://www.suburbanempire.com

left wing sass served up fresh from folks in Vermont

PS. Sanctions only hurt the little guys in any country. Mom, Dad, the kids, Grandma and Grandpa, Uncle Achmed and Cousin Fatima, all suffer, starve, die in darkness and cold, while the guys on top are the last to feel the pain...and take any humanitarian relief supplies for their own use. Sanctions and war, nah.

Jimbo no way Iran will "sink a few US ships-of-the-line with sunburn missles". As an ex-squid I can tell you - it ain't happening. I'm no fan of the military industrial complex, but a lot of those hyperexpensive toys DO actually accomplish what they're supposed to. And any Iranian sortie against our semipermanent Persian Gulf flotilla would result in the utter and total annihilation of Iran's force-projection capability. Believe me they will have zero air force and zero navy in about 45 minutes, tops. They'd undoubtedley have a lot of jihadi-crazed basijis eager to charge across minefields, but all that will get them is a lower unemployment rate.

The U.S. wages war in three countries on either side of Iran, but guess who has to prove their "peaceful intentions."

Yes, America is on life support and the prognosis is not good.

So it would appear that the best and easiest way to avoid WW3 is simply not to attack Iran.
Lost in all the hyperventilating about mad mullahs and such is the simple fact that Iran is in 100% compliance with it's NPT obligations and all it's nuke material is accounted for by the IAEA. The same cannot be said for Israel who equates any suggestion that it should sign the NPT and open it's bomb factories to international inspection as an act of anti-semitism.

Bizzarely by normal human standards but perfectly normal by US MSM standards Israel can run air-force excercises over the Med clearly aimed at Iran and have matter-of-fact public debates on if the best way to deal with Iran is conventional or nuclear first-strike. This is not provocation or threatening of course because Israel has never pre-emptively attacked anyone, unlike Iran who has invaded dozens of countries in it's mad quest for territory and power.

Americans are fucking braindead.

Yes Jim, We are in tempestuous times. I have spent a good time at sea and the feeling I'm getting looking at the social, financial, and economic delamination taking place is giving me the same sickness in the pit of my stomach I have felt when the wind and sea start to rise up before a storm. You do the best you can knowing that the exact sequence of events about to unfold will be unknowable. I think you are best when you are not in the prediction business . The good news for you is that all these events are grist for a novelist's mill. At this time I see a deflationary economic collapse combined with a collapse of an economic and political system which has been dominated by finance, insurance and real estate and nothing gas been done to try to address the consequences of all that debt and leverage. Gotta go. I still need at least one more cord of firewood for what looks to be a long winter.

I'm normally an enthusiastic fan of Kustler's but...
If you believe paragraphs 2 - 7, then you haven't learned a thing from the Neocon war on Afghanistan and Iraq. And no, I am not an anti-semite, nor am I a 'self-hating Jew'.

Read: "Last Light' by Alex Scarrow. In it,the mess was about the same, although the ultimate source of the cascading disasters was an 'international powerhouse' of bilderberger-types. In the book, on the way to a new life of local, simplified and lower energy demands - were situations which quickly spun out of everyone's control, a breakdown of law and order, and millions of deaths, not just where the tankers were sunk and the refineries exploded, but across all nations. For many, life was reduced to stealing bottled water and tinned food; safe zones inside the football stadiums eventually did a Katrina - no food and no washrooms; then devolution into death zones.

Cooler heads had better prevail in the real world.

Up here in Canada the sleepwalking majority carry on their avoidance behaviours assuming their non-negotiable lifestyle is not only sustainable but that they'll be the last dancer with the stars left standing when the music stops.

From Chris Hedges at "Truthdig":

"The belief that by thinking about things, by visualizing them, by wanting them, we can make them happen is magical thinking. The purpose, structure and goals of the corporation can never be questioned. To question, to engage in criticism of the corporate collective, is to be obstructive and negative. We can always make more money, meet new quotas and advance our career if we have enough faith. This magical thinking is largely responsible for our economic collapse, since any Cassandra who saw it coming was dismissed as “negative.” This childish belief discredits legitimate concerns and anxieties. It exacerbates despair and passivity. It fosters a state of self-delusion. And it has perverted the way we think about the nation and ourselves. "

Yes completely brain dead. For the last ten or more years the slogan was that the illegals "do the jobs Americans wont do". Ok but now we need those jobs so why are these people still here? Why is this off the table? Who decided that? The slogan was obviously a lie all along.

Yes, Israel has hundreds of warheads in violation of the Non Proliferation Treaty. This is tacitly acknowledged by everyone. But to the G-20 it's just not on the table. And then they wonder why they can't create accord with the General Assembly-who don't accept the tacit gag rule.

Even people who acknowledge that our American Media is dominated by the Jews, often say it doesn't matter. And the same people will say that it doesn't matter that Israel First American Jews contol our foreign policy. Well this stance is just worship of the status quo or fear of getting into trouble. It obviously does matter when one small group dominates the discussion and the subsequent policy decisons. Not to see this is to be brain dead.

Americans are numb or asleep, while the downtrodden poor of the rest of the world know quite well who is fucking them over. No wonder they want to destroy us. It's not like we ever gave a shit about them, after all. Seems fair.

The earth could do with about 5 billion less people. This could help us along the way...

The rich assholes think they can ride it out with their private compounds and stashes. I guess they plan to be kings of the trash heap. Yay - Victory!!

Good fucking luck. Heads on pikes will make a comeback.

yikes. looks like someone forgot to take his prozac this morning. and why blame greenspan? are you a closet anti-semite the way you are a not-at-all-closeted sexist (your hatred for hillary clinton and sarah palin and your obsessive fawning over obama is pathetic)?
uncle sam is obsessed with adding more and more to his list of bad guys - iraq, afgahnistan, pakistan, iran are bad guys. this is what sigmund freud called projection (or maybe displacement). instead of various factions in us duking it out, we project onto another nation that we deem the bad guy and then nuke the heck out of it.
obama's obsessed with health care reform - stop sending americans to iraq and afgahnistan to get head injuries that will cost the taxpayer for decades. don't force people to have the swine flu vaccine that will cause neuroimmunological disease in x% of the poor swine who opt for it.
things are truly crazy and getting crazier - and kunstler is right that something's gotta give pretty soon. stock up on shlitz and cheez doodles, pay that cable bill and stay tuned, folks!

Today's post is yet one more example of Jim's "allergy" to conspiracy theories. Okay, so none of this is actually going to happen. Well, it could! Yessiree! Geopolitical masterminds and Andres Duany so attest.

The problem with prognostication as a nervous tic is that it leaves a paper trail. But there's an obvious remedy: sobriety. True, Monday mornings won't be quite so much fun but then ennui is probably better than heavy breathing.


I think the recent problems with Iran may be a good point for the US to begin deploying a post-empire foreign policy.

US's position should be: We are an economic basket case, not necessarily headed back to the stone age but headed toward a much bleaker society than we have had for several decades.

We are no longer an economic superpower, and a third rate economic power cannot be a major military power.

Our national defence henceforth will be limited to our own nation.

So you boys fight it out amomgst yourselves. Hope you solve it without too much mayhem.


To reflexive antiwar leftists, I know you can't accept this but the fact is the military might of the US has served as a sort of glue that kept regional wars from sprouting up all over the globe.

But, leftists once in a while are right, they are never right for the right reason, they are always right for the wrong reason, but they are right that we should not engage in further military adventures around the world, not as they think because it is something morally wrong, but rather because we are now an economic basket case and it is impossible to sustain a foreign policy at odds with that unfortunate reality.

A pretty good read about the economic conditions around the world as well as in the U.S. showed up in this article:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/marshall2.1.1.html

It certainly ties to Isjogren's comment, as well as substantiating many of Mr. K's commentaries. Me, I wonder if the Messiah et al really believe any of it?

If we stay in the Middle East we keep tensions high, which can lead to war, a cut-off of oil supples and a Long Emergency. If we pull out of there, we cede control of our lifeblood to the oil-exporting nations--who don't like us. Could well be, here comes the Long Emergency.

One thing for sure, it ain't what I'd call "boring".

'Rat

I am not sure about this, but perhaps I'm dense. Is Jim saying - albeit obliquely - that we might stumble into WWIII as as a potential antidote to the current financial meltdown? Also, I wonder, if WWIII were to be uncorked, would the US be spared mayhem and destruction within its borders? I for one rather doubt it.

James,
I'm surprised you did not mention the Petrodollars issue. Once Iran stated that they would move off of the dollar things started to change over the past couple of weeks. I believe that there is direct link between the two. The US needs the world to maintain oil priced in dollars. As soon as it changes it'll be the endgame for the dollar.
Richard

Coincidently or not, this is exactly the policy of the Founding Fathers, not Framers, Farmers or Mothers. Tea for the Tillerman! Found out that Yussuf Islam aka Cat Stephens, converted to a fairly high type of Islam which is not averse to Sufism. Watched a video about it. The Beautiful Man is still so. If only they were all so.

I don't know his politics though. Some beautiful people believe in some horrible things. And some of the Sufis were and are jihadis.

Yeah quite right: they don't like us very much at all. And their culture is radically incompatible with our's. So why are we letting millions of them into America? And into Europe? And into Australia? The European Leftists think that they will use them to finish off Western Culture and then convert/corrupt them to Multiculturalism and Sodomy. It aint going to happen. The Muslims are using the Leftists to finish off Western Culture and then they will convert Europe. They can do it. They've done it before. Countless times. To imagine that Leftist, gender queer, hierarchical socialism-with Straight White Men at the bottom-to imagine that this monstrousity is not only viable but can defeat a vibrant ancient culture with a long track record of both conquest and stability-well it's just lunacy. And it's just this lunacy which has lead America and Australia to open the gates to these people.

As Quadaffi said, the West is a rotten fruit and it will fall into our hands if we but wait. But some of them are too impatient-and herein lies our opportunity to awaken the sheeple from the deadly peril which awaits them-from both the Muslims and their supine Western Enablers.

"But there's an obvious remedy: sobriety. True, Monday mornings won't be quite so much fun but then ennui is probably better than heavy breathing."
------------------------------
Not around here Walt, many of the poorly educated types, who still sport "college degrees", mistake the heavy breathing, and bulging neck vein rants for "good writing".

Hey Unc, your getover at Kohl's was priceless ... literally. It's what my salesman brother-in-law calls a "grand slam."


Seems like folks been predicting this Iran WW3 for a while. Still betting on more whimper than bang for that end of the world soundtrack.

Hi, Jaego!

I don't know what these comments are about; I do not know what the blog post is about. I didn't read it.

World war 3 is a favorite theme of mine. I write every day, too. I just don't figure into the group with a good shot at surviving the times just ahead as they are shaping up. Thus, I do not "monetize" my blog, nor am I afraid to make words up.

Like I say, I don't read the post, I post my blog URL. But, since Jaego is here, and before I sink too far back in the queue, because it gives my ego a boost to get lots of hits, I wish to commune with my kind.

With this blog comments section spinning completely out of control every week, into 400 comments, I know nothing can be said about the whole comment section. It isn't unitary. The comments do not reflect anything. With nothing to make sense of, Jim Kunstler is now left with the option of saying, "It doesn't matter what I write."

But, real quick, I want to align myself with the hatred. I had a dream. Remember the famous speech by MLK, "I Have a Dream"? If you have a dream, you can trot it out any time you like, so, I don't think you have a dream. Not like me. I had a fucking dream. Now I'm awake. Oh, wait. I am going to follow a preacher now, i.e. The Reverend! Oh, okay, I guess I have a dream. and, like I said, this speech is "I Guess I Have a Dream". Whose words we going to use to write it, now? I want it in Spanish. Are you having a dream?

http://sbillinghurst.wordpress.com

What I want right here is to reference a photo; that of a little boy with his father, and they are both in KKK robes. I need the verisimilitude, so, imagine that I look up the parts of the robe, so that I can say, Jaego, wasn't it cute the way he wouldn't let the sacred robe touch the puddle? Wasn't that something the way little John-John saluted the casket?

No, really. I have a son!

I have a son today, you all. Yes, I have a son and in that son I have the content of my character. I have been to the bus stop, and I have seen to the other side of the street. I want to tell you I have a son.

Y2K, Peak Oil, and now Iran. Excellent choices for fear mongering.

I am sorry to see you go with the main stream sheeple press version about Iran, which is not an aggressor nation and which has not threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"... what one Iranian said was the current regime would one day vanish. Very different, and true... inevitable actually in democracies.

If there is war, it will be because the USA or Israel want war, not because Iran initiates any kind of aggressive action against another nation.

And if there is war with Iran, you better believe it will also be fought on USA home turf. Iran is not Iraq, which had been weakened by ten years of UN sanctions and flyovers. Iran is not Afghanistan, which had only rubble to bomb into more rubble.

And, finally, you say "We forget about Turkey, which was the hegemonic player in the region for centuries"...

Who is "we"? We voted for Obama, and Obama is the first and the only president to give a speech in Turkey because Obama understands the importance of Turkey in geopolitical terms much better than any other USA president.

It might be worthwhile to go back and review the speech Obama gave in Turkey.

"Barack Obama has declared that the US "is not at war with Islam", in a major speech during his first visit as president to a mainly Muslim country."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7984762.stm

I think you've outlined well how it will go down, with Turkey perhaps playing a larger role being cut out of the pipelines and Haifa gaining them, so the only question left is when. When depends on how long the recovery movie lasts. Short story - soon, full version with intermission - before 2012. The only antagonist worse than an antichrist president is no president.

No mention of the possible reasons for Iran's nuclear ambitions? How bout Israel with 2-300 long range nuclear tipped missiles able to reach Tehran?

Funny how the media and Zionists miss this provocation. But Israel's the "good guy" right? Didn't look that way in the invasion of Gaza to this observer. 500 women and children killed in retaliation for 10 Israelis killed over the last ten years? Seems a bit harsh. But this is called justice in Neocon world.

No, there's little news of any tension other than right wing radical sites in the US. Iran is agreeing to inspections, everyone's breathing much better on this side of the pond. I'm sorry James, but even as you're generous and spot on with so many issues, when it comes to Israel, you're blind. I have an Israeli brother in law, no news, nada, it's only over there that's it's a helpful distraction, always this media stuff, distractions only.

I might even suggest that unless the US starts to behave a bit better and stop printing money, China and others just may start to place sanctions against the US. I have family that works up in Geneva and Zurich and no one's happy about all the 'real' tension btwn USB and the US.
There's drama everywhere, but not where you're calling it this week.

Jim, I always appreciate your sarcasm and wit dealing with world events, even if I don't subscribe to the doom and gloom side of peak oil (but I do think it is real, unlike Exxon).

However, I think you may be wrong on one item here - Pakistan. Dig through all of the government hyperbole and you will find that Pakistan is the driving force behind most of the Islamic world's conflicts, involved in what is basically a dick wagging exercise with India.

Stirring the pot in Afghanistan and with Bin Laden, they have managed to get the US and UK on their side - countries traditionally allied with India, of course. This has made Pakistan an indespensible "ally" in the war on terror, therefore making them more influential and powerful than they should be.

The middle east conflict(s) are largely rooted in this Pakistani-Indian power struggle and until the US and Europe wake up and realize this, they will continue to fight unwinnable wars and dwindle even more precious resources (money, energy, lives) in the process.

As it happened, though, the elected leader of Iran made too many intemperate remarks about wiping other nations off the face of the earth, and this has only prompted the leaders of other nations to take his remarks at face value and presume that Iran's nuclear program was devoted to armaments, not electric power generation.
So, now the USA has picked up the gauntlet.

Unquote, unquote. I went on an arc while I read the post. I'd rather pick on grammar, like a weasel.

QUOTE

It is perhaps, just another prime symptom of "overshoot,"

UNQUOTE

That is best written as one clause, Jim. to wit:

It is perhaps just another prime symptom of "overshoot,"

But, here is the rub: "perhaps just" doesn't work alliteratively.

Now, the "9/11 Truth" movement, not the Y2K movement, could be said to be the first true Internet Human Viral Medium to polarize hysterically the population and rattle the economy. Of course, the current episode, give it a name ("The Economic Downturn"?), is a full-blown "It might have been." Whose fault is this? Well, ours. Not JHK's, and not Orlov's. JHK is Jewish enough to precipitate destruction of any and all Arabs; Orlov's our former enemy, left with a bad taste in his Mao-mouth when his superpower dissolves.

The Warren Commission Report and HUAC were back in the good old days when you could raise your kids the way you saw fit---beating the fuck out of them---and not even a runaway punch-drunk robot WalMart minefield of folks who look really stupid but could, theoretically, think if they tried.


LaughingAsRomeBurning has it right. This provocation of Iran has been going on for over 20 years. Further if you count the USA overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian president in the 50's.

U.S. F14 Fired at Iranian Aircraft;Iraqi Attack on Iran Raises Gulf Tensions
The Washington Post
Author: Loren Jenkins
Date: Aug 11, 1987

I got a little fuckin' psychic criss-cross with Asoka. We both mentioned Y2K at the same time, I believe as just a reference to the way JHK came up in the world. I don't know if Asoka and Asia are differentiable. I like these names as female, but they always say "he" on Asoka. Asoka's pretty smart. That asia might be smart, too. He's right on top of everything, getting references, but the screams of all caps and the "press-the button and hold it down" school of the Selectric turns me off---egad, man.

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep; works.

JHK is oversubscribed and does not work on the blog any more. Without the blog, the prospect of making it in a forest of equivalent writers is doubtless daunting. Rather than Y2K, let us consider this incredibly powerful Internet. This thing is going to hurt someone's feelings someday.

During the Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988, the USA was arming Saddam Hussein, and Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.

The USA has been the aggressor.

The USA overthrew the popular Iranian Prime Minister Mosaddeq in 1953. (Operation Ajax)

The USA has fired on Iranian aircraft.

The USA has provided weapons to Iran's enemies, systematically, for years, including nuclear weapons.

If the USA provokes a war, Iran will defeat the USA.

Jim, you need to have a little more imagination.

What scares *me* is the possibility that Ahmadinejad might figure out that the biggest threat he could make to the world would involve dropping a nuke or two into a shallow oil well with a reservoir close enough to the surface so that the result mixes with atmospheric oxygen to make a rather big bang.

Bonus points for getting it near enough to Kuwait or Saudi Arabian fields to take out some oil fields there too. Kuwait, as I understand it, has some oil fields that might work for that. Horizontal wells, now a pretty common technology would make it possible if you were determined enough to drill under another sovereign nation's soil. Don't know if there are any wells close enough to the border for that. Hope not.

No missiles needed. It all happens within your own borders. Quietly. I hope it hasn't happened already.

Cheers!

"No mention of the possible reasons for Iran's nuclear ambitions? How bout Israel with 2-300 long range nuclear tipped missiles able to reach Tehran?"

Hey, dim-fucking-whit,

Israel has had them how long... without firing a single one?

1. Not hero worship.
2. Effective, popular grass-roots demands.
3. "Intemperate remarks"? No, that can't be the reason.

A superpower has its heyday. but, we can't see whether, like an old man, it enters a much longer period of senility, where it is just plain dangerous. if so, we don't want to cut that long period short, either. try to pull the U.S.'s teeth, will you? Quit worrying about Iran.

You know, we still don't have freedom from the PTSD of WWII.

Stop being hypervigilant. "WWIII" is an anachronism. I want a light tactical nuclear attack with 1-200,000 dead, not megadeaths. And, I want it put on billboards as "WW0". No!!?

let me check something.

O (capital o, #15 in the alphabet)
0 (zero)

Oh, that works. I don't want to be thought crazy for my insistence on hitting the right key (I still don't want to lie or cheat, part again (are we alone? I want to steal and eliminate the witnesses)). Where's my fool for proper etiquette, Abbeysbooks?

I am not looking East. I am looking to the Benelux nations. I lost a lot of drugs there, baby. Got no time to messa round.

Bush contributed to the lack of trust Iran shows toward the USA.

In late 2007 Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran, according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources.

These operations, for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush, and are designed to destabilize the country's religious leadership.

The USA has a long history of aggression toward Iran, and will regret provoking World War III with Iran.

IMHO, trashing the Strait of Hormuz may be exactly the point--
Lately, Russia's economy has been suffering due to low oil prices. The easy fix, for them, is to stir up a little nuclear exchange between Iran and Israel, closing the Straits of Hormuz in the deal.

They have so much to gain; They can sell their oil at 300 Euros a barrel (no need to speak of dollars anymore, at that point), and dictate the politics of Europe. They can rebuild their shattered, formerly-islamic neighbor in their image--who DOESN'T need another Bulgaria??-- and let Iran glass-coat Israel with the nuclear warheads and missiles that Russia has probably _already_ given Iran. No tears will be shed in Moscow for the millions killed on both sides of that exchnange.

Ahmedinejad's threats only make sense as an attempt to provoke Israel into attacking Iran first, so that Iran can nuke Israel in self-defense.

If they were smart enough, Israel and Iran could see that they are both being set up to lose big on this one.

"Didn't look that way in the invasion of Gaza to this observer."

Funny how all the Gazans' had to do to stop the actions was to stop lobbing missiles into Israel.

A refresher course on just how Iran became what it is today
http://www.suburbanempire.com/content/refresher-course-cias-history-iran

Essays critical of the suburban living arrangement and the empire it has spawned...... made fresh by folks in Vermont.

"Iran actually imports gasoline, due to inadequate refineries."

Why would Iran be so intent on building reactors
when they can't even refine their own oil? Why
do they leave themselves vulnerable to a gasoline
embargo?

PM Netanyahu was interviewed by Charlie Rose
recently and stated that sanctions won't be tightened on Iran until after the first of the year.

Quote of myself;

and not even a runaway punch-drunk robot WalMart minefield of folks who look really stupid but could, theoretically, think if they tried.

adding
"present much of a threat"
"offset, in the final analysis"

Add your own ending. The sentence got too kludgy. It used up all its letters in the first part. Do not use it as empirical evidence of ESP.

"the time-warp of a decisive and instantaneous Internet poll."

Therefore, as "run over" by a car recedes, blowing general quarters and assuming battle stations will increase.

You have to know about ensembles to stay alive. In order to delve into the emergent hypothesis, you have to let go of the ergodic hypothesis, where time-order and ensemble average approximate each other. Now we get into spontaneous symmetry-breaking.

Like some idiot just suggesting that oil fires will boost the yield (no, dude. A boosted fission weapon has tritium, but if the device is already thermonuclear, just get out of de way), we bring in the entropy now and use it to make a prediction within the confines of a complex system, knowing that the meaning of many of these words is not what it was before.

An ensemble? I use ASSEMBLY, but I tax it as ASSEMPLY, to get ready for a new word. I use TAXUAL, for instance, as the reasoning process which leads to taxation; when you present nuclear arms and bring extinction to the table, even such seeming necessities as taxing the shit out of the people come down to a questionable practice.

An ensemble is no longer four pieces in a band. it is on the order of 4+4+4+4 ZEROES after the one, in number average, as we observe the decision matrix flop into its application. Some histories are one-time.

We needed googol the number long before we saw the website. That's winning WWIII. If you look into a clear sky, you can see the mushroom clouds on the back of your retina. That's a partitioned universe.

Hit me with an earthquake instead.

This comment is delayed by too many submissions.

While we are on the subject of World War Three, please keep in mind that with a single superpower, there is no doubt that we are the Evil Empire, just so you know we're not "bad" as in incompetent. We are bad as in craven cowards and evil bastards.

"What happened?", said Goethe from heaven.
"Oh, the USA saw fit to issue a threat", replied Descartes.
"Want to hear a story?", said Franz Kafka, and he began to tell the tale of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff who awoke to find that reality was virtual and intelligence artificial trapped in the matrix of the Internet.

U.S. Navy Admiral Mike Mullen awoke one morning to find that he had been transformed into a giant insect. He tried without much success to use his pinchers to recover his KKK hood from the floor and get it over his feelers and his mouth parts.

"If my orderly, David, comes in here he will try to kill me with a broom, not knowing it is me. And, I just hope the rest of the Joint Chiefs don't find out I let my KKK gear touch the floor or they'll kick me out of the KKK---I mean the Bonesmen---I mean the Joint Chiefs."

You can stop worrying about a war with Iran right now.

No such war is ever going to happen.

The "window of opportunity" for such a war to occur closed with the mid-term elections of 2006. All the huffing-and-puffing by the neocons since then is just empty talk going nowhere.

Iran is safe. No war today, tomorrow or ever.

http://www.flickr.com/dmathew1

Dale is refering to me-he pretends that he doesn't read my posts but he does. Why the pretence? It's the Marxist Way-slander and ignore/isolate. He has tried to debate me but he always gets frightened and runs. I think he knows he is going to lose.

Also this way gives him plausable deniability or so he falsely believes. For his is a sin against the Holy Spirit-believing things that he knows aren't true. Such a sin separates a man from his very soul. Thus it is said that a sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.

JIM K:
I saw the sticker on the BIG TRUCK again.It reads:
NASCAR ENDORSES SHEETROCK BRAND

Also I heard the author of ' The looting of America' on the radio over weekend...i didnt know a CEO makes 1800 x the pay of a worker!
and Jk hows this for a feedback loop.....he claimed the bailout $ is used to
LOBBY THE BELTWAY FOR FURTHER DEREGULATION...eerie

' Without the blog, the prospect of making it in a forest of equivalent writers is doubtless daunting.':

seb...r u talkin yrself Asokh or both of you?

and whoever went shoppin and got it for free...well...was that delamo mall?
and exactly where is the tower with 0 occupancy? LA? Vegas?

all of you good folk out there keep up the good work!
and remember which brands nascar endorses!!!!!!

advice toZZZZZZ...never say never on the nuke dilemma

Our fragile state of affairs could topple like a bad game of energy dominos where no one really wins in this reality B movie horror flick.

I read 1300 estimated...mostly women and children
someone emailed me pix of the carnage

and IAN807...dont give people dangerous ideas..its said the reason terrorists got bio weapons is the media kept writing about how afraid the free world was of bio terror...so viola they started maikn em..
i know about cheap weapons terrorists could make..i dont post what they are and how to deploy them!

"If the USA provokes a war, Iran will defeat the USA."

Possibly, but I find interesting the subtle hint that you think Iran would lose, too. Defeating =/= winning... look at the Tet Offensive.

"If they were smart enough, Israel and Iran could see that they are both being set up to lose big on this one."

An astute and excellent observation. The Russians are no fools.

Quite true. We are the baddies. Similar to what happened centuries ago here in the East. A great Prophet name Deganawida (something like that, Longfellow's Hiawatha) came to the Iroquois and helped them form a Council or League between Tribes that would end war. The ring of Peace. But the Ring of Peace became (as ever) the Ring of Power. And within a century of the Prophet's Departure, they started demanding other Tribes join their League. If they refused, they were considered a threat.

Just so, we consider ourselves the acme of Civilization, the cat's pyjamas and meow, cock of the walk etc. Anyone who refused our genderless, abortion as sacrament civilization is evil and deserves to be destroyed.

On your other point, we seem to be moving towards having a sin tax. I mean if you make Employers pay your health insurance, don't they have a right to make you be healthy? My insurer just sends me cheerful little tips about what to do, but some Companies are already far more draconian. We are demanding a level of morality from people that they are not ready for-to choose health for the sake of Society. I fiendishly chuckle as I wolf down bacon and cheese covered eggs and wash it down with cream laden coffee. They will pay when I have I have a heart attack, oh they will pay! I visualize myself as Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, the first Dune movie, the one with Sting in it. Great stuff: high tech red haired degenerate mutants vs the beautiful people of House Atreides.

Don't all good things have a secret sting in them? And all bad things (like the US) have secret virtue? Thus is Emerson's Law of Compensation. Ice will burn and fire will freeze. The good man is punished for his namby pamby weakness and the bad man rewarded (for a while) for his strength and cunning. I love Dale for his extraordinary combination of namby pamby cunning.

"the first Dune movie, the one with Sting in it."

The SciFi channel miniseries stayed closer to the story, but the movie had the visuals and atmosphere down perfectly.

I still run into people who have read Dune and don't believe/understand that spice=oil.

The oil must flow!

Asia,

Are you a guy?

If it is "Reply to SEB", why is it all JHK this, and JK that?

My friends, you got one, two, three, four, I say, four corners on a square:
JHK
SEB
Asia
Asoka

Now the only thing, I say the onliest thing is "AS" starts off both those two names. There's nothing for it, but SEB blames others for his problems. In fact, if I can borrow a technique from JHK, I blame Gaia, too. No entity can be invoked and not tapped off, not even Pinocchio. and blame is synonymous with heat.

Even though "As" is not disambiguated, I don't know. I get a female ascription with that kind of name, just as hurricanes and ships take female names. Did you say you're a guy? Because, that's what I asked.

And, a lot of people know each other in here and it is based on their politics, but I don't see any difference. We're all friends. We don't have any Nazis. We have so many laws and are told, "Let them eat cake", so much, ...

JHK has always put this blog, this, up. That is the writer. If he wants to change it, he must moderate. He doesn't have time. Orlov doesn't have the stomach, but these two writers are writing the same, evocative of the same images, as were Hunter S. Thompson and Tom Wolfe. But, we can't find out what HST would say about all this. Because, for one thing it was not a blog, not on the Internet. The medium is the massage. Not to mention he's dead, besides.

If JHK were to find a better living through books and lectures alone, he wouldn't be able to devote this much mental energy to incessant prognostication. He'd have to change the grammar to past tense.

I want him on an infomercial. Billy Mays has left a yawning gap in the national psyche.

VENDETTA DE TUTTO

Well, if I do not understand it, I would have to begin somewhere.

Since they take it internally, I was sure it was methamphetamine. That also comes out orange since we don't care how poisonous it is. We care how free from dopamine-receptor blockers like the starting material ephedrine it is. This derives from LSD, where the numerous LSD-like by-products interfered with the high. It derived from Agent Orange, where the dioxin contamination created a dirtier, yet more efficacious product. Their customers axst for a batch like that batch a while ago. When the way that you are considering something valuable is by the way it greases people, not how it helps them, it tends to reorient your specifications.

Agent Orange was a clever attempt to circumvent the Geneva Accords with respect to chemical warfare.

If you want to know who knew we'd run out of oil, it was the utopian visionaries of the hippy movement. Dune was no Stranger in a Strange Land. Does "Herbert" hold a candle to a name like Heinlein? Is a Frank a Robert? Dune was too long, like an Ayn Rand book. "Jizz-Erritt"? (Jon) Benet/Bean (Ramsey), "Gez-er-RAY"? I want to say WTF. And I read it when I was sick. and I just don't like Sting anyway. He needs to be thumped. What kind of name is that? What kind of name is "The Police"?

I think science fiction is not subjecting its workforce to urinalysis.

Amen. It's a must for all would be Ecologists. For without political saavy, such folks end up betraying their own vision-Sierra Club taking a huge bribe to shut up about the Devastation caused by the Illegal Invasion.

Yes, the Oil is the Spice. A whole generation of cool (can they be?) Young Republicans should have been saying "The Spice must flow" to each other with a wink wink nudge nudge. Drill Baby Drill is like Neil Armstong's tube socks. Solid, but so yesterday, man.

Of course, the Spice is organic and Oil isn't. A few die hards say it is. Someone here said that the biotic oil people are the riding on dinosaurs Sarah Palin people. Probably so, though I would love to be surprised.

Yup old Frank Herbert had one great novel in him anyway. I found Hellstrom's Hive very compelling and unforgettable, though I couldn't say it's as relevant as Dune. And the Fremen or Free Men are a combination of Arabs and White Nationalists to round out the equation. Their religon is a combination of Islam and the Orange Catholic Bible. It forbids making a machine in the likeness of the Human Mind (no computers, sorry geeks) Arabs in the sense of contolling the Spice; White Nationalists in the sense of having no country and fighting for freedom-their plantet being taken over by the InterStellar Families and they turned into serfs and run away serfs.

How do I say "I unnerstand" in Italian? "Capisce, Paisano?"

I will talk to the Union of Science Fiction People-USFP about getting some drug testing started. We will provide them with catnip seeds so they can grow it and beat the test if they wish. That's the best I can do-the rank file demands an herbal out.
Also as per your request, we will send out the humpers to thump Sting. The Police have disbanded and are no longer a threat as group at least.

Jaego Scorzne wrote:

"Yes, Israel has hundreds of warheads in violation of the Non Proliferation Treaty."

I reply:

You can't be "in violation" of a treaty you never signed. And speaking of treaties never signed, why is it that no muslim nation has signed the Geneva Convention? That treaty, also, is only applicable amoung signees and has no legal standing for countries who are non-signers unless they specifically announce publicly that they intend to abide by the Geneva Convenation rules regarding such-and-such armed conflict. (You can read it for yourself if you doubt me.) No muslim nation has ever made such a declaration, either.

Why is that?

If they aren't going to play by the rest of the rules, then Israel has no obligation to do so, either. Even Sun Tzu, the famous chinese general and military philosophers, teaches that it is stupid to adopt rules of engagement your enemy will not honor. The muslim nations are completely without honor, as it is taught in the Koran, they can and will pretend to go along with treaties they DO sign. No sane person would trust them to engage in ethical or just warfare.

If Israel wanted to nuke somebody, they could have had done with it already and be in complete possession of the Middle East. The fact that they haven't proves they only want to be left alone. Iran has proven no such thing, nor will they - their intention is just the opposite.

Well, well Miss Gayle, I trust you have divined the difference between Arab culture and Islam the religion. As well as the fact the majority of the Muslims population worldwide is NOT Arab, but Asian.

And your rather inflammatory (to someone I am sure) comment "The muslim nations are completely without honor, as it is taught in the Koran, they can and will pretend to go along with treaties they DO sign." could actually be restated as "The ___________ are completely without honor, they can and will pretend to go along with treaties they DO sign" wherein one woudl fillin the blank with your country or pedigree of choice. Off the top of my head are the numerous treaties bewtween teh government of the United States and the various and sundry American Indian Nations.

With regards to "why is it that no muslim nation has signed the Geneva Convention?" I'll let this link speak to that:

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebSign?ReadForm&id=375&ps=P

And to this "If Israel wanted to nuke somebody, they could have had done with it already and be in complete possession of the Middle East. The fact that they haven't proves they only want to be left alone." I say that Israel has not nuked anyone is because it doesn't want the US to toss it (Israel) under the bus for doing something to obviously insane. Israel plays by only one set of rules - Israels rules. Kind of like Fight Club - Rule #1, Israel makes all the rules, Rule #2, see #1. Whether that is good or bad depends of course on your perspective in the larger scheme of things. Historically though, it likely won't turn out well. Set of a nuke in the Mid East and I can guarantee what was secular before will no longer be.

Frankly, my money is on the Russians.

Qschtik, save the editor commentary. Yes, my post is full of grammatical errors. Deal with it.

Mr Kunstler, your continuing diatribes against Iran are frankly insane given the sociopolitical and economic realities that country lives in. The orgasmic neocon/zionist fapping over the leering, gleeful fantasy of a destroyed Iran are just that, fantasty.

Iran scares the shit out of Israel and the Western powers, and for good reason. They are becoming more and more widely regarded among the poor, oppressed and dispossessed in the Middle-East as an incorruptible force for stability, law and order. Iran has unbelievable control of it's proxies, such as Hezbollah. Proxy control of much of Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. This image, coupled with their heavy investments in schools (real ones, not takfiri madrassas) businesses and the like are making them much more conductive to the "Arab Street"

Iran no longer uses terrorist tactics, except against military forces. They despise the insane Sunni Takfiris, who much more closely resemble your description of "Islamic Maniacs".

Invading Iran would be an enormous war of attrition. Not to mention absolutely nuts.
We know Iran has literally thousands of buried missiles along it's gulf of Adan coast, waiting to take out every oil operation in Arabia. There is absolutely no way we could stop them all. Invade or nuke Iran and we cut our own throats.

The sensible thing to do is sit down with the Iranians and become "bestest" buddies. They do not want Israel, they _do_ want the rest of the Middle-east and the Maghreb. Right now the Iranians are perfectly content to let the United States exhaust themselves in the quagmires of Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The suggestion that Russia would be happy enough to see the Middle-East go down in flames is legitimate. Imagine Arabia as a sea of clicking hot glass. Russia would then become the major oil exporter for the rest of the world, a really _bad_ scenario.

Iran has dreams of empire, but it is practical and thinks in terms of decades and centuries, not every four years. This bru-ha-ha over the current Iranian president is laughable. He has no real power.

Iran is a theocracy, yes, but organized more along the lines of a hierarchical christian church. Unlike the radical Sunnis, Shi'ites never gave up ijitihad (gates of Reason). This crucial difference is what allows Iran the very real possibility of adapting to the modern world and to modern 'western' concepts of human rights.
The Shi'ites are having a renaissance, with their St. Augustines, Martin Luthers, Calvins, Mother Anns, etc. all studying and debating with each other. Like Jews and the Talmud. Ijitihad requires every generation to re-interpret the Qu'ran, Hadiths, etc. in light of the realities on the ground.

Mr. Kunstler, stop parroting MSM squawkings that don't even _begin_ to delve into the massive and contradictory story that is Iran. A good book to start would be ex-CIA spook Robert Baer's
"The Devil we know"

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95285396

Desertrat,
Thanks for posting that article! What an eye-opener. I don't know that Jim could be any more candid than this one from the Bank for International Settlements. When you couple what it says with the reality that we are heading into energy contraction, not MASSIVE energy expansion, like in the 1930s, the picture starts getting quite clear...and, well, terrifying. Not to put too fine a point on it.

Richard,
Don't forget Jim's ignore-ance of certain conspiracies. This is probably one of them. It probably doesn't allign with one of his models of reality.

"Qschtik, save the editor commentary. Yes, my post is full of grammatical errors. Deal with it."
---------------------------

You're reading my mind ... but it's typos, not grammar ... and it's too late to deal with it ... I already tore my hair out.

BTW, it's Qshtik not Qschtik ;-)

Yellow,

Best comment of the day! Thanks for explaining a bit of Iran's complexity and for pointing out the delusion involved in painting Iran as an enemy.

Iran has sufficient reason to not trust the USA given how aggressive the USA has been overthrowing their democratic government, arming Iran's enemies, carrying out covert ops inside Iran, and invading and occupying Iraq and Afghanistan, surrounding Iran and having war ships nearby, shooting at Iran's aircraft, etc.

Not only does Iran have the missiles along the Adan coast, it has the ability to sink USA aircraft carriers, and operational ability within the borders of the USA.

Any war we unilaterally initiate with Iran will have a USA theater of operations with massive casualties on USA soil.

Obama better think very, very carefully before messing with Iran.

'Sierra Club taking a huge bribe to shut up about the Devastation caused by the Illegal Invasion.'


TELL US MORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The national parks are a shambles....but the nation may be a shambles too soon.....


......wheres ZZZZZZ ??? ???

Well said Ted!

The whole G20 Iran annoucement is proof that we're actually more willing to fire bomb a civilian population in a far-off land than reform the fat cats at Goldman Sachs.

And while that announcment was made, hippie protesters were being defeaned by a war-time sonic weapon known as the LRAD.

The land of the free indeed.

The second after I pushed "submit" I mentally kicked myself for even thinking of getting into another mindless israel/iran/ME flaming thread that was never going to change anybody's mind.

Around about page 4 when everyone started getting into the serious Dune analysis, I laughed out load for what must be the first time in many weeks, this carried on till here. I really needed this.

JHK, SEB, Sergio, Mr. Purple, the A's. Thankyou for helping me snap out of a bad case of doomer myopia. I feel like having a run on the beach now ! It's midnight where I am, but so what.

Since I never used the word "Arab" in my post, you must be confused. And since you didn't actually respond to my point, you must be very confused indeed. Allow me to demonstrate: As your link clearly shows, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc. are not shown as being signatories to the treaty, and have no statement of "Accession" on file, either. The "ratification" column, in which there are dates posted WITHOUT having any such dates in the signature or accession columns, is meaningless. Agreeing "in principal" to something you refuse to sign or issue a statement of accession to is orwellian double-speak and nothing else. It's PR, it's not legally binding.

And again, only an ideologically biased person would claim that Israel has just been chomping at the bit to blow up its muslim neighbors. Washington would have had no means of stopping them if they had chosen to do so, and most of Europe would be in danger of being nuked themselves had they protested - so again, you have not demonstrated intent or motivation.

Grade: fail.

"Me, I wonder if the Messiah et al really believe any of it?"

God knows. Are you asking about the Lew Rockwell article?

"...as it is taught in the Koran, they can and will pretend to go along with treaties they DO sign."

Have you ever heard of the Kol Nidre Vow?
{"ideologically biased" comes to mind}

Spice is supposed to be a hallucinogen you morons. Think LSD, Psylocybin or Mescaline, all of which were available to Herbert as well as DMT.

Anybody who ever went to a Grateful Dead concert in the '80s within a hundred miles of San Francisco quickly learned that the sea of brand new Volvos was older Deadheads that worked their way into the computer business. You can read this because people expanded their minds with psychedelics and thought outside of IBM and Microsoft's box.

Beating the war drums on behalf of Israel is a fool's errand. Anybody who thinks only westerners can put microcomputers into model airplanes with a GPS and add a bomb isn't very smart. I'm betting Iran can make more cheap drones than the US can make missiles to shoot them down. Especially if the Chinese give them some back-door help.

Three hundred million arabs will eventually figure out a way to beat less than 20 million Israeli's. The math is on their side. First task, eliminate Uncle Sam's oil supply. If the missiles fly you better have a good bicycle already in your garage.

We easily forget our history in Iran...
in 1953 we ousted the elected prime minister and installed the Shah and the hated SAVAK secret police... In other news California teeters on the edge of state bankruptcy....
http://www.suburbanempire.com
essays critical of the suburban living arrangement and the empire it has spawned..... baked up fresh by folks in Vermont

"I still run into people who have read Dune and don't believe/understand that spice=oil."

And water = the Holy Spirit

And the U.S. continues to forget what exactly we did to bring Iran where it is today.... operation Ajax in 1953 our CIA's first overseas operation saw the elected prime minister ousted and replaced with the Shah and the hated SAVAK secret police.........fast forward to 1979 and you get the picture.... in other news California is going for broke...
http://www.suburbanemprie.com
essays critical of the suburban living arrangement and the empire it has spawned..... baked up fresh by folks in Vermont...

"Since I never used the word "Arab" in my post, you must be confused." No confusion here. The glaring absense of the use of that word IS my point.

"And again, only an ideologically biased person would claim that Israel has just been chomping at the bit to blow up its muslim neighbors." Back at you - only an ideologically biased person would claim that Israel has NOT been chomping at the bit to blow up its muslim neighbors. For crying out loud, Israel was founded by blowing up its Arab (the majority of whom were/are Muslim)neighbors.

With regards to my link, are you actually fluent in English? Did you read any of footnotes or statements? Some of the statements were clearly radical things like using a Red Crescent or Red Shield of David instead of the Red Cross.
Signatory period is over and signatures mean squat without ratification.

Idealogical bias indeed. Or is it idealogical dyslexia?

But fear not. The conflagration many pray for will likely occur. It is what happens when you mix hubris and ignorance - something Americans, particularly the politicians, excel at.

For the most level headed analysis on Iran, check out Scott Ritter on a recent edition of Democracy Now! Iran is in fact in compliance with the NPT unlike some other countries that refuse even to sign it. Iran has no unaccounted for fissile material. The new facility has yet to see any uranium. It's built under a mountain because some other countries are threatening to bomb it. Aggression, much? The whole weapons argument is a scare tactic and a red herring. Let's talk about what really matters. Iran's relationship with China and Iran's desire to trade oil and gas in euros. The single biggest threat to the American debt monster is a switch from dollars to euros as the world reserve currency for oil. If a critical number oil producers accept euros, the dollar will tank and tank hard. All of your dollar denominated pensions, savings, real estate, you-name-it, will be worthless. The cost of our imported oil in dollars will glance off Mars on its way to Jupiter. It will fall back into a crater formerly known as the United States.

unnerstand is probably the way you guessed. If you want to sound educated and grammatically correct then it's capisco.

excellent link so many thanks

They were lobbing rockets into Israel. So what if they had been sending them to New York? What would we have done?

I notice they are not sending rockets into Israel anymore. And yes I grant they were provoked and sent the rockets into Israel. But actions have consequences.

"All of your dollar denominated pensions, savings, real estate, you-name-it, will be worthless. The cost of our imported oil in dollars will glance off Mars on its way to Jupiter. It will fall back into a crater formerly known as the United States."
------------------------------

Wow! Now that's what I call hyperbole

Yes Pakistan is the instigator. See Bernard_Henri Levy's Who Killed Daniel Pearl?

when will they be 20M ? now they are 8m? have you read 'THE OTHER SIDE OF ISRAEL'?
So far they have somehow tolerated each other. sort of......and now its 200 million muslims ?

The 9-11 issue of either Time or Newsweek had one of our nuclear reactors on the cover. I think it was the upper New York State one. The lead article was Are They Safe from terrorists and then went on to describe their most vulnerable aspects. I saw it many months later but I shuddered. What if it had been published the wekk before. They would have had time to consider it.

The entire eastern seaboard would have been kaput. For a long long time. I too think they are carzy when it comes to this. Haven't they taken psych 101 and learned about the expectancy hypothesis.

I remember when Bush met Clinton at the White House before inauguration but after the selection. They were sitting facing each other and the cameras on CNN under Washington's picture on two chairs.

Bush said,I think we are in a recession. I gasped and had I had any stocks would have immediately put in a sell order. Because I know about the expectancy hypothesis and knew Bush wold make it happen.

Clinton tried to defuse. He laughed and said, No we aren't. A recession is defined by two quarters of negative growth back to back and we haven't had that yet.

But I knew Bush would make it happen out of dumbness. He did and the stock market crashed before they scrambled and made it go up again.

Gregg said: ""All of your dollar denominated pensions, savings, real estate, you-name-it, will be worthless."

Qshtik said: "Wow! Now that's what I call hyperbole"

You need only look at the example of Argentina in 1989 to realize it is NOT hyperbole:

The Argentine state eventually became unable to pay the interest on its debt and confidence in the Austral collapsed. Inflation, which had been held to 10 to 20% a month, spiraled out of control. In July 1989, Argentina's inflation reached 200% that month alone, topping 5,000% for the year.

Hyperbole? No, history. Reality. Coming soon to a country near you, Qshtik (Qshtik who lives in NJ)

Sorry, Abbeysbooks, I hit the wrong key. My message was intended for Qshtik.

some say thats why Bush2 went into iraq...he was not going to allow SH to go to the euro..is it true? i dunno!

Despite all the evidence that Iran has no nuclear weaponry in the works we will have to attack
anyway when Israel, who has Uncle Sam's balls firmly in hand, gives them a good twist by attacking unilateraly, after which we will have no choice but to join in and deliver the same "shock and awe" we delivered to Iraq. Tens of thousands--mostly civilians--will probably die and trillions
will be spent but we will have served our purpose
as Israel's 800-lb. gorilla.

God forbid we should tell Israel to go take a hike
while we explore every possible diplomatic recourse to avoid WW III. That wouldn't be...well...manly.

It also is not insignificant that BO went across europe pushing for the end of christian middle class europe,,,via acceptance of Turkey into EU...clearly Bo works for the global power elites!

God forbid we should tell Israel to go take a hike
while we explore every possible diplomatic recourse to avoid WW III. That wouldn't be...well...manly.
scratch that last word and substitute CHRISTIAN

Nuclear weapons have three uses:

1) Threatening non-nuclear powers;
2) Preventing yourself from being threatened by nuclear powers;
3) Forcing any conventional attack on your country to be dispersed (for example you cannot have a convoy of ships because they make a nice target for a nuke).

Isreal is also a nuclear power. So is the US, which occupies Iran's eastern and north-western neighbours. If fact, Iran's northern neighbour (Russia) and south-eastern neighbour (Pakistan) are also nuclear powers. Iran is a non-nuclear power surrounded by 5 nuclear powers (Isreal, the US, Russia, Pakistan and China).

Of course they're going to develop nuclear weapons. But to use them would be suicide.

And never mind what Ahminadinejad says. He has no power, and was just elected because he's an embarassment to the mullahs that rule the country.

Oh my, you boyz really need to have some milk and cookies and a nice nap.

Wars and rumors of war, oh my. Are you so low in self esteem that the thought of a war is the only thing that can cheer you up? Good Grief, Charlie Brown shirts.

Jeez, please head down to the store and buy a packet of seeds and oil for your bike chain and then unplug the box, yes both of them.
Turn Glen Beck and Jimmy the K off for a while.

You'll feel so much better in no time, that you might even start to like yourself and those around you..

DWBH

The 9-11 issue of either Time or Newsweek had one of our nuclear reactors on the cover. I think it was the upper New York State one. The lead article was Are They Safe from terrorists and then went on to describe their most vulnerable aspects. I saw it many months later but I shuddered. What if it had been published the wekk before. They would have had time to consider it.

The entire eastern seaboard would have been kaput. For a long long time. I too think they are carzy when it comes to this. Haven't they taken psych 101 and learned about the expectancy hypothesis.

I remember when Bush met Clinton at the White House before inauguration but after the selection. They were sitting facing each other and the cameras on CNN under Washington's picture on two chairs.

Bush said,I think we are in a recession. I gasped and had I had any stocks would have immediately put in a sell order. Because I know about the expectancy hypothesis and knew Bush wold make it happen.

Clinton tried to defuse. He laughed and said, No we aren't. A recession is defined by two quarters of negative growth back to back and we haven't had that yet.

But I knew Bush would make it happen out of dumbness. He did and the stock market crashed before they scrambled and made it go up again.

Interesting view of the future as a Star Trek guy I wishing for a united happy federation, but my magical thinking was brusied even Star Trek had armed conflicts. TO Suburbanempire: A late night radio show had a caller who said that the Brits ask President Truman to use his new spy agency the CIA to overthrow Iran. Truman's advisors said that it is a national movemment not communist,and we should help them develop a capitalist democratic model, for they fear years later it would haunt us. Truman left, and Eisenhower came to office had oil men in his cabient and the CIA was used. OH Harry we need you now. TO NINA: this antichrist person is always changing, first Jewish, then Italian, then Arab, back to Jewish, then European, and now a bi racial American President. check out skeptic.com and csicop.org for 2012 hype and scare.

I remember a conservative teacher at Michigan State (think he was trying for tenure, oddly enough; he did seem quite young) talking about nuclear weapons. The comment I still remember to this day is: "All the nuclear weapons have been successfully used, because since Nagasaki none of them have been exploded."

That would explain why Israel, India and Pakistan, and South Africa (a now-known FORMER nuclear power) got their bombs; and why Iran appears to want their own bomb(s) -- to insure that they don't find themselves in a position where they may need them. Think of it: Why else has there been no wars since 1973 (from two groups of people overeager to kill each other...)

I remember a conservative teacher at Michigan State (think he was trying for tenure, oddly enough; he did seem quite young) talking about nuclear weapons. The comment I still remember to this day is: "All the nuclear weapons have been successfully used, because since Nagasaki none of them have been exploded."

That would explain why Israel, India and Pakistan, and South Africa (a now-known FORMER nuclear power) got their bombs; and why Iran appears to want their own bomb(s) -- to insure that they don't find themselves in a position where they may need them. Think of it: Why else has there been no wars since 1973 (from two groups of people overeager to kill each other...)

Operation Ajax, one of the first overseas misadventures our CIA embarked upon brought us to where we are today, on the front page
http://www.suburbanempire.com
But first our top story: Califoreclosure; the Golden State downgrades to tin...........
...........essays critical of the suburban living arrangement and the empire that it has spawned....served up fresh by folks in Vermont....

Have some milk and cookies, Q.

You and your precious metals are safe...

Water=Holy Spirit. Nice. And don't forget Tolkien's Lord of the Rings: lembas=the Body of Christ. When Evangelicals convert to Catholicism or Orthordoxy, the scales fall from their eyes and they notice Bible Verses they never noticed before. A common experience.

The Church has the Soul. Christian Identity has the body. Only together would they make a complete man-one fit to be the Steward of the Earthly Garden and the very Body of Christ on Earth. I am torn asunder by this. Why must I choose between my Soul and my People? Why must the Universal destroy the particular? Aquinas said the function of grace is to perfect nature, not annihalate it. Why does the White Race have to die for the Church? Why does helping the other races mean we have to self destruct?

But there seems no help for it. The Princes of the Church sneer, "White Trash". And the Identity People answer, "Whore of Babylon".

It sure would be easier to become a Muslim. But my duty calls. And Christ and Odin must wrestle over my soul.

"And water = the Holy Spirit"

Excellent point! I had forgotten that!

In any event, we are going to be running low on both.

No Israel is very ambitious, but as the Muslims know, they fight by proxy. Or as the Mossad motto says, "By secrecy shall you make war." Look how fast the Jewish contolled media dropped Cindy Sheehan when she started talking about the NeoCon Project for the New American Century and the report they wrote for Israel, Securing the Realm.

Basically, it's a plan to undermine every Muslim State in the Middle East. They briefly analyze each Country and show that each is weak because of ethnic or religious fragmentation. After all, only stupid White Goyim believe that Diversity is Strength. Stupid White Cattle being lead to the slaughter house of the Middle East. Never believe a thing these people say, watch what they do. Their religion gives them the right to lie to non Jews-just like Islam does.

So they plan to use America as their golem to undermine the Middle East. And get this: they are so arrogant that this is published right on the internet. Google it and read it. That's how confident they are of their control over us. Naturally the Muslims have read it too, and they have no intention of letting themselves be picked off one by one as the report suggests.

We are every bit as stupid as they think we are. After all, we let them take over our media and our money supply. But the Russians are not stupid like this-they know all about these people after fifty years of Communism. When the Russians crushed the Georgian Aggresors over one thousand Israeli Advisors fled back to Israel-proof that Russia did exactly the right thing and nipped something very bad in the bud.

Btw, Al Queda agrees with the Israeli analysis. The consider the Arab Nation States as ridiculous puppets-just imitations of the West. The say the real political structure for Islam is the Caliphate.

And btw, I don't agree with Al Queda. I consider the Jihad a very great threat to the West. I say a plague on both houses. Let's tend our own Garden and let Israel fight its own war for a change.

With Arabs certain to drop the dollar, it looks like the long-awaited "Long Emergency" for America has arrived without 1) Israel attacking Iran 2) Swine Flu mass quarantines 3) Cat. 3 hurricanes 4) 30% unemployment 5) Disenfranchised NASCAR mouth-breathers wreaking mayhem in the streets 5) the Rapture. 6) $400 per barrel oil

"...scratch that last word and substitute CHRISTIAN"

Scratch that and substitute Judeo-christian, which {need I point out?} is an oxymoron. Strive for accuracy in labelling.

"substitute Judeo-christian, which {need I point out?} is an oxymoron."

Jesus was born a Jew, lived as a Jew, and died as a Jew.

Why is Judeo-Christian as oxymoron?

Iran's leader said that "The Israeli Administration should be wiped from the pages of time". Hey, we all hate genocide.

Just as our own ego believes it is our entire being, governments believe they are the entire nation. So naturally Israel's government thinks that Iran wants to destroy the nation. Paranoid? Schizophrenic?? You bet.

Read Juan Cole's excellent continuing reporting on all this at www.juancole.com

We all pretty much can figure out that when Saddam decided to price his oil in euro's, we took him out. Likewise, Iran contemplates a separate bourse, so we've got to take them out.

So we tend to support Israel. They do the advance weapons research and testing for us to develop methods of killing Arabs in an urban setting.

Too bad that when we fabricate reasons to snuff out a regime, the truth comes out and America looks like a criminal. Which we are.

Finally, the world gets sick of our shit, and does something about it. Like China now deciding to support pricing oil in different currency.

Believe me, this is a big one, and I think we are fucked. Time to start WW4 (the cold war was WW3...ask any Neocon)

CSC

Goldbugs everywhere are tuned to CNBC and have their eyes glued on the upper left corner of the screen. They are leaping for joy as gold has soared to a new all-time high above $1,040/oz.

But beware. You can be certain that the dark forces of Jaego, Abbey and Asoka have their grubby mitts in this somehow. Are we to believe that they have, all of a sudden, lost their grip on the tiller? Or is this just another piece of their nefarious plot? such as ... suck in the last buck of the little guys then drive the gold price off a cliff. Whatever the case there's one thing you can be certain of ... those dark forces are a bunch of Jews.

OK BUDDA BOY

long long ago....buddists would go
to hindu temples and vice versa...then the followers 'separated' and decided they were and are 2 different religions.

Jews are jews and christians christians. OK?
it was rabble rousing JS here who posted the eye opening 'why do us christians know how many eurojews died but not how many us soldiers died'

judeo christian is a media term to bolster Jews...like the media playing a ' the 10 commandments' at CHRISTMAS...push judaism, kill christianity.

'new all-time high above $1,040/oz.'

certainly not adjusted for inflation! Id guess food prices are 5 to 10x what they were 30 years ago...gold was at a high round 1980? yes ??

and is it 'off a cliff' or ' off of a cliff' ??

Because Judeo-Christian is a term made up by Jews for dumbed down Christians. They don't believe it-they feel no unity with us. In fact, they have utter contempt for Christianity and their secret books, known as the Talmud, blaspheme Christ as a sorcerer and the Virgin Mary as a whore. Plus they tried to stamp out Christianity in the early years. St John and Mary had to flee for their lives along with many others. And ever since they have worked against us. We are enjoined to love and tolerate them. They have no such equal stipulation.

They like the term because it helps allay suspiscion against their nefarious dominance in media and banking. And of course, to keep us as their golem fighting foreign wars. Any you like them because you know that they are working against Western Civilization.

Yes Christ and all the first Christians were Jews. So our prejudice is not ethnic. Nice try-exactly the game they play. Every criticism of them is ethnic prejudice or "anti-semitism". No our prejudice is based on experience so it isn't pre-judgement at all. Call it postjudice. Call it experience and knowledge. And the caveat: many Liberal Jews are atheists or agnostics and know nothing about all this. But they often have some of the same attitudes....Certainly the vicious mockery.

How do you tell if it's starving?

RON PAUL TALKING SENSE

"What if tomorrow morning you woke up to headlines that yet another Chinese drone bombing on U.S. soil killed several dozen ranchers in a rural community while they were sleeping? That a drone aircraft had come across the Canadian border in the middle of the night and carried out the latest of many attacks? What if it was claimed that many of the victims harbored anti-Chinese sentiments, but most of the dead were innocent women and children? And what if the Chinese administration, in an effort to improve its public image in the U.S., had approved an aid package to send funds to help with American roads and schools and promote Chinese values here?

Most Americans would not stand for it. Yet the above hypothetical events are similar to what our government is doing in Pakistan."

EXCERPTED FROM: Instead of Bombs and Bribes, Let’s Try Empathy and Trade by Rep. Ron Paul, October 06, 2009
http://original.antiwar.com/paul/2009/10/05/instead-of-bombs-and-bribes/

"certainly not adjusted for inflation! Id guess food prices are 5 to 10x what they were 30 years ago...gold was at a high round 1980? yes ??

and is it 'off a cliff' or ' off of a cliff' ??"
--------------------------------

If I say gold is the ultimate adjustment for inflation and that, if anything, the CPI needs to be adjusted by the gold price you will likely respond that the price of gold is being manipulated by dark forces (the Jews?) and I will say no, it is the CPI which is being manipulated by the government via its agent the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). So, as you can see, this is an endless debate. There is no north star.

All that aside, however, the CPI-U for Aug 2009 was 215.834 and in Aug 1980 it was 83.3. Thus, this most frequently cited of all inflation measures has grown 2.59 times ... not the 5 or 10 times that you guess food prices increased.

Suggestion: Stop looking a gift horse in the mouth and just be happy gold has finally made a new (nominal) all-time high ... and hope that it's able to hold these levels without slipping back.

Your second point: 'off a cliff' or ' off of a cliff' ??

I read about this issue concerning the use of "of" a few months ago. I concluded that in most cases the "of" was superfluous. A question to you ... Which seems more correct: Slimy is off his rocker or Slimy is off of his rocker? I defer to Abbey, the grammar maven, on this issue.

"Why is Judeo-Christian an oxymoron?"

Judaism is Pharaseeism. It was never the religion of Moses.

Pharaseeism was known for it strictness of religious observance, close adherence to laws and traditions, and belief in an afterlife and a coming Messiah.

Sounds a lot like some born-again Baptists I know who are waiting for the Second Coming of Christ.

"Judaism is Pharaseeism."
---------------------------

Titles, Labels, intellectual one-upsmanship ... who gives a shit!

Qshtik asks: "

"Judaism is Pharaseeism." ... who gives a shit!"

This week JHK's column is about World War III. It is unlikely that an atheistic religion like Buddhism or a polytheistic religion like Hinduism is going to trigger World War III.

The most likely candidates for starting World War III are the extremists and fundamentalists of the monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.

That is why I care.

"Phariseeism"

Webster's 1913 Dictionary
n. Pharisaism.

Thank you to Asoka and Yello for pointing out the absurdity of believing that the US is threatening Iran because of intemperate statements by Ahmadenijad.

Did Mossadegh threaten Israel? Or did he just try to nationalize Iran's oil?

I can't believe that JHK, who writes about the importance of oil to the USA, would believe that the reason the US is saber rattling has anything to do with what the people living on top of the coveted oil say or do. The US ruling class wants that oil. The lies about the Iran's nuclear program are simply the newest propaganda.

And the US hasn't only fired on Iran's aircraft. It shot down a civilian airliner and killed 290 people in 1988.

The entire manufactured controversy about Iran's election, including the sniper death of a woman, captured on film and desseminated around the world in the anti-Iran corporate media, was more propaganda spread by the US and its allies in the "international community". (That is, the US and European capitalists who ally against the poorer peoples.)

It's obvious that it makes more sense that the US would attack Iran to keep control of the oil, and just as importantly, the financial system which uses dollars as the world's currency than because the Iran President doesn't like Israel's policies.

In the news, it says the Chinese and Arabs are meeting secretly to discuss how to break the news to Uncle Sam that dollar hegemony's about to end. Today is the day that vindicates Ron Paul and Jim Kunstler. I'd have thought you folks would be chatting about this but it doesn't seem that way from the last few posts. Scary that you folks are chitchatting on what is almost sure to be a day that will reverberate through history like 7.4.1776 and 12.22.1963.

WAKE UP - once the link between the dollar and oil is broken.....all of Jim's prognostications are going to come on line very quickly. It's exciting to say I told you so but scary to gear up for the apocolypse, isn't it?

off of is always incorrect but I learned that in elementary school. And from my parents at the dinner table. Alas somethings are gone forever.

Gold has not been adjusted for inflation. You are correct in your perception asia. The reason it is still very low is that its price has been manipulated by our government for obvious reasons. Every time gold started to break out of a resistance level, the govt sold into that rally and depressed the price once more.

Now the German central bank will sell NO gold, the Swiss bank will not either, and the gold bullion and coin dealers are way behind in orders (since 8/08)and the premiums above spot are very high.

Yes it was high in 1980 $800 something and so was silver. Martin Armstrong of Princeton Economics was the lone voice in saying it was going down down down. The lone voice was correct. He's rotting in jail for his correct predictions because he won't reveal his model.

Now our central banks and the European ones won't sell and are holding tight to their reserves. We had better do the same, that is if we have any reserves. Well, we can pretend, can't we?

So if it hasn't been adjusted for inflation,just wait until it is. It will be quite a ride.

As my legal seminar teacher Gene Zimmerman said, "Everything costs the same as it has always cost. In gold." All gold does is tell you how worthless the dollar is.

So gold has not gone up to $1040. The dollar has sunk so far that it will take that many of them to buy an ounce of gold without premiums because the quoted price is spot on the Commodity Market Exchange in London, Chicago, Honk Kong, Tokyo etc. As one exchange closes the flurry moves to another one so you can win win win 24/7 or lose lose lose 24/7.

I hadn't seen the news when I commented, heckler. But my comment about the US starting a war to keep the dollar preeminent stands.

It's interesting that Saudi Arabia is in on the agreement to drop the dollar.

How much do you want to bet that we will suddenly start hearing about the Saudi "hijackers" and the terrible condition of Saudi women and the crazy Wahabbi Saudis?

And how much do you want to bet that the American public will suddenly develop a strong desire to bomb Saudi Arabia, for the good of their people?

Sorry for all the bold above I meant to do it just for the number 1040. I apologize profusely dear ones.(I just saw the number 1040 which is the IRS form number for reporting income. There is also a magic in numbers in money dealing so just be aware of that fact. Now 1040 is a new resistance level if gold should fall. 1065 is the Battle of Hastings.))

As to the CPI index, it is manipulated to keep it artificially low. Especially noticeable when Greenspan was keeping interest rates artificially low. They take things out of the index and put other things in to manipulate the average. 6th grade math at best.

You are correct Asia. But if the CPI is allowed to reflect the real rate of inflation, then, horror of all horrors, the CPI will go up. If the CPI goes up then the colas based on it for increases in Social Security payments must go up too. Godzooks SS will break us! So keep that CPI down boys, down down down.

"The most likely candidates for starting World War III are the extremists and fundamentalists of the monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity, or Islam."

Now, here was an opportunity to use judeo-christianity correctly; but again you failed to differentiate between them. Judeo-christianty {or alternately - judeo-churchianity} follows many of the commandments and doctrines of men {Judaism/Pharisaism} and nicolaitanism which Jesus had such harsh words for.

One God is not the problem. It is ignoring "no other gods {rulemakers} before me" while pretending to be monotheists. God has raised up enemies to disipline His people many times.

Thanks Abbey and Qstick...i dont claim to know how to understand the govt 'cooking the books'...CPI..i dont pay any attention to! Is that where they DONT include the price of gas in computing?

once someone who traded stocks and gold said something like ' if the govt didnt meddle in gold prices an ounce would be 10k...or was it 50k. that they have ways of keeping its price down'

Now that the greenback is being dumped by china/japan/sauds
HOW LONG TILL THE SHIT HITS THE FAN IN THE USA?

Because Judeo-Christian is a term made up by Jews for dumbed down Christians

To go along with the term 'anti semetic'

Ive yet to see a tv show or movie that took any religion / nation to task for being ' anti christian'...for instance in africa where christians are the slaves...instead b clinton went to one of those ecountries when he was prez...one of the worst in terms of it presently having slaves AND APOLOGIZED FOR THE USA HAVING HAD SLAVES

on a humorous note..i was reading ' the pessimists look at the 80s'....in 1989 the house voted itself a 35,000$ raise and did its annual charity collection...430 members and 11,000 staff
IT RAISED 1500$ TOTAL...fifteen cents per person

THATS WHY I DONT BELIEVE IN POLITICIANS AND GOVT ASOK

Now the Saudis are claiming there haven't been meetings to drop the dollar. We've been warned about this for years. Expect Obama to either ignore it ( healthcare is such a desperate issue right now) or go apologize to China for buying so much of their crap.

"It is unlikely that an atheistic religion like Buddhism or a polytheistic religion like Hinduism is going to trigger World War III."
--------------------------------

The Slimy one, again, makes a totally unsupported statement as though it is a truth that anyone with two brain cells to rub together has known since conception.

WHY?!?!, Slimy, do you say it is unlikely? Well I say it is the most likely thing in the world ... far more likey than death and taxes. What is your rebuttal? Really, you need to stop talking outta your ass.

Have to disagree. That was the first intelligent thing Asoka may have said in weeks. One of the great strengths of the East as opposed to the West is the dearth of religious wars. Perhaps they don't care as much about their fellow man-or perhaps they know that "religion should not be a matter of compulsion" said by none other than Mohammad in one of the early suras. As he got more powerful, God changed his Mind. And their system of abbrogation gives more weight to later suras, so that one is effectively out the window.

Also while they believe their religon is best-they are nearly as likely to say the other guy's relgion is demon food as we are. That's the biggest difference I think.

Meant to say not nearly as likely to see the other guys religon as demon food. And thus one big motive for war is gone. Also Hinduism, like Judaism, is an ethnic religon, which generally means no proselytizing.

Other good news besides the incipient fall of our Civilization: we lost the Olympics. Thank God that the Europeans stood up to the Gang of Three. In both Obama and Michelle's speeches, the pronound I was used about two dozen times. These people don't wear well at all-even if you did like them at first. Last time Opie was in Europe she tried to get some shop clerks in trouble in Paris. She and her entourage got to a store and it had just closed. They were officially outraged. Opps said that she never been so humiliated in her life. Typical Negro crap. She couldn't just come back tomorrow like a normal person. So management caved and apologized-business as usual. Thankfully these IOC were made of sterner stuff.

And the people of Chicago can breath a sigh of relief that bulldozers wont be tearing down their neighborhoods as happened in Atlanta. And Obama is supposed to be for the poor? Incredible destruction for just three weeks of use and then they often just lay empty. It's Kunstler's Nightmare cubed. But very lucrative for big business. No issue more clearly illustrates the gap between rich and poor.

Qshtik said: "WHY?!?!, Slimy, do you say it is unlikely? Well I say it is the most likely thing in the world ... far more likey than death and taxes. What is your rebuttal?"

Look at the history of nuclear weapons, which have existed for over 60 years. Only one country in the entire history of nuclear weapons, indeed, in the entire history of the world, has been immoral enough to use nuclear weapons.

No Buddhist nation has nuclear weapons. No Hindu nation with nuclear weapons has used them.

There has only been one nation in world history that is so monstrously immoral as to incerate, deliberately and indiscriminately, men, women, and children with nuclear weapons, with horrible, horrible radiation effects that have lasted for generations.

And that immoral nation is Judeo-Christian.

There has only been one nation in world history that is so monstrously immoral as to incinerate, deliberately and indiscriminately, men, women, and children with nuclear weapons

I really don't think Iran would initiate any military strike. I don't believe they would want to be made into glass, as one commenter stated. Russia, India, Sunni Jihadis and more would put an end to the nation of Iran. The Middle Eastern countries and states would probably be happy to see Iran disappear. That is why no Iranian official would risk their position in the Middle Eastern hierarchy.

Next, I suspect that Iran already has a nuclear device purchased over the counter through arms dealers. They have connections in that type of underworld. I would bet they even have a warhead buried in some mountain stronghold.

http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

Jerry said: "I suspect that Iran already has a nuclear device purchased over the counter through arms dealers. They have connections in that type of underworld. I would bet they even have a warhead buried in some mountain stronghold."

"Buried in some mountain stronghold?"

I would bet they have used the open southern border (the swiss cheese tunnel-ridden USA-Mexico border) to bring nuclear weapons into the USA.

If the USA attacks Iran, expect millions of casualties on USA soil and massive infrastructure damage.

Like Yellow said, Obama's best strategy, to counter both Russia and China, is to try to be "bestest" of friends with Iran.

I was one of the many local residents who loudly opposed the games here in Chicago, and I screamed with joy when I heard that we "lost" our opportunity to lay out billions of local taxpayers' money on this disruptive, expensive egofest for King Richie.

Chicago lost the games because it was clear we could not make the financial guarantees the IOC wanted and because of well-organized and highly vocal opposition on the part of the citizenry, 84% of whom stated that they were not willing to use public funds to pay for this nonsense.

The opposition was very diverse. Poor blacks living in the Washington Park area opposed the games because they would have caused the displacement of at least 10,000 people in the area, mostly poor and black. Then, when No Games Chicago managed to force our pols to have meetings in each ward, the tone was very hostile and residents everywhere made it clear that they were opposed to public funds being diverted for this event, and distrusted the pols who stated that it wouldn't cost a "dime" of public money, which was of course a lie, for the city had already spent $86M to acquire an old hospital to be razed at an additional cost of about $100M for demo and site preparation for the Olympic Village. Then, the lot was to be sold to the crony developer of the Village, and HE would be guaranteed by the city against any losses he might incur.

The whole thing was shot through with corruption and crony deals, which we here in Chicago have a lot of prior knowledge of, and there were many Daley and Obama cronies who stood to make out like kings. Former Daley aid and Obama employee and crony Valerie Jarrett, a member of the local rich black elite, stood to make an additional fortune off land close to Olympic venues. Many other Daley cronies were lined up at the trough.

But Rio guaranteed $14.4 Billion, which is more than the rest of the bidding cities put together. Moreover, the savage beating death of that nice young black kid was seen all over the world on video, along with videos of other crimes, and such diverse groups as the League of Women Voters, the wealthy white people of Lakeview, and the black churches, and then citizens in every ward, publicly opposed the games.

And now I hate the Olympics. I used to be neutral, and enjoyed the winter games, but now we know that this event brings displacement, disruption, police violence, mistreatment of the poor, and massive cost overruns to be offloaded onto local taxpayers everywhere it goes. Additionally, it not only does not help the participating athletes, but often ruins their lives. Totalitarian governments, like the old Soviet Union and Saddam Hussain's regime, tortured athletes who did not win medals, and people here have trashed their children's lives in order to make them into Olympic competitors.

Good luck to Rio. They'll just bulldoze their poor out the way and out of sight. They'll impoverish their middle class to pay for that crap and those fools will love it all the same. Good for them, and good riddance.

Yeah it's so corrupt and materialistic now-just like everything else. The Ancient Greeks had their problems, but at least they had some class. The winner just got a wreath-and the glory and honor. And originally the atheletes were all rounders-decathalon types. They had to do it all. None of this over specialization. That came in with the Romans-who were really much more like us.

Why not just have it in Greece in the same spot every year-as close as possible to the ancient site. That might bring back a touch of the ancient spirit and it would help avoid all the nonsense, waste, and political spectacle.

Last time we threatened them, they had a huge ceremony. Thirty thousand men pledged to die as martyrs if the Untied States attacked. And Iran has specifically pledged to take the war to the streets of America. Can anyone be positive that they cannot do this? With countless Iranian students here? Perhaps some who have made the vow of Jihad? And huge Iranian Communities in Michigan-numbering in the hundreds of thousands? No, we will pay and pay dearly if we pursue this mad venture. And China doesn't like it either. Considering how much of our debt they owe, we might want to take into consideration their feelings on the matter.

Heckler, and others, thank you for pointing out what should be the obvious topic here in light of JHK's post this week: the collapse of the dollar as a result of the trading of oil in petrodollars, euros, or anything but the dollar. It may not be today or tomorrow, but it is coming soon. When it does, then we - in the US - are all truly fucked. When the gov here realizes that all the devalued currency they've been printing won't buy enough of the things we truly need to keep even this much of our sorry-mess-of-an-economy running, then you'll see the conflagration that Jim alludes to when he writes "something's got to give in the remaining three months of 2009". Israel doesn't even have to attack Iran - the US will start things of course, because TPTB know that the collapse of the dollar means the continued tanking of the economy here, including everything from local government services to food distribution, leading to social and political breakdown.

Don't forget the fire bombing of Dresden, Germany-a city without military significance. The British and American planes came in waves. Once the city was on fire, the people started running towards the water. The British planes flew low and strafed them. All told, an estimated three hundred thousand civilians died. It can truly be called the Dresden Holocaust. The Zionists object of course. That's their word! They know that all resources, including the human resources of attention and sympathy, are limited. So they try to hog all the attention and sympathy they can get. They try to downplay how many people died there-they say thirty thousand. And they exaggerate their own casualties. Six million weren't even in German contolled territory. Six million is a Kabbalistic number. No real researcher believes it-but the public number doesn't change. Likewise they are very bitter about the Armenians getting some attention. They want it all. They are important, the A list. All the rest of us are just the supporting cast and the crew.

Read Kurt Vonnegut's "Slaughter House Five". It's an amusing, tragic book by someone who was actually there-he was a young soldier. And he's no Fascist but a well known Liberal of the old school who actually had compassion for people other than his own Liberal Tribe and their Idols the Blacks.

Good for you for opposing the proposed Olympic games in Chicago. I'm proud to say that Denver voted against having the Olympics here (1976). Of course, voters wouldn't do that now - too much PR would convince all the idiots that have moved to CO since that it would bring in money to the local economy, create jobs, make Denver an "international city", blah blah blah... The logistics here would have been a nightmare: ice and speed-skating in Evergreen, skiing in Aspen and Vail, and I-70 west into the mountains is a parking lot to begin with on most weekends. I'm glad for the sake of your community that Chicago didn't get the games.

The Chinese worship their ancestors.Theyset off firecrackers for my friend when she came back. Makes sense. Look what our ancestors went through so we could be here.

JHK and The Long Emergency get mentioned in this Guardian article, "Will California Become America's First Failed State?"

For the record, I think the answer is "Yes". Or "42".

Heckler, we all know taking the dollar off the table with regard to pricing for Oil will be a disaster for the United States. It is one of the main reasons why many of us on the site are so worried about an expansion of the Combat Theater to Iran. The PTB are actually crazy enough to try it.

Iran will _not_ launch pre-emptive strikes under any circumstances. However, they will certainly cause tremendous damage to Arabian petroleum facilities. Perhaps on U.S. soil too. They're no fools and know they are a chained bulldog surrounded by hungry wolves looking to steal their bones and the doghouse if needed.

The House of Saud, Europe, Russia, China, India and other big players recognize this and are playing games all around. The stakes are high. The dollar is failing in pretty much every aspect and the rest of the world doesn't want to go down with the sinking ship.

The frustration many of us have is with Mr. Kunstler attempting to lump together Iran with the insane takfiri Sunni terrorists.

That Mr. Kunstler is pretty much in lockstep with the Neocons and the Zionists* is appalling. This indicates a total lack of comprehension of Middle-east politics. The even sadder thing is this is a long term trend.

*Note, I no more equate Zionism with Judaism than I equal Neocons and the modern Republican Party with classical Conservatism or Christianity.
Modern Zionism and Republicanism are perverse, pathological mockeries of Judaism and Classic Conservatism, sucking in all the most ignorant, duplicitous and shameless aspects of both and completely jettisoning the reason, honesty and heart that make them both worthy religion and ideology.

Apologies for the double-post.

JS, Dresden was horrific also, but qualitatively different. You do not find articles describing the continuing effects of Dresden bombing from generation to generation.

Radiation from nuclear holocaust is qualitatively different because of its extremely long-lasting effects.

For example, this article from the New England Journal of Medicine could not have been written about the Dresden bombing:

Effects of Atomic Radiation: A half-century of studies from Hiroshima and Nagasaki
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/extract/334/8/545

A Judeo-Christian nation is the only country in the history of the world that has been so uncivilized and barbaric as to intentionally use nuclear weapons to burn civilian populations alive.

And now that nation is economically broken, unable to continue its military world dominance, an empire dying a slow death in a long emergency.

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

Alan Greenspan took his oath of office with his hand on the Talmud not the Torah. And here as a few relevant gems from that "inspired" book: "All things pertaining to the goim are like a desert; the first person to come along and take them can claim them for his own." (Baba Bathra 54b)

"The name of God is not profaned when it is not known by the Goi that the Jew has lied."
(marginal note by Rabbi Akiba for Babha Kama 113a)


"It is permitted to decieve a Goi." (Babha Kama 113b)

Now maybe this is just coincidence-that Greenspan doesn't know what's in those books. But the sheer fact that the he swore on the Talmud at all is telling-most people think that the Torah is the main one. But the Torah is considered basic; not to be understood without the aid of the Talmud or Law. Either way, it reveals alot and could explain many things about Mr Greenspan's policies. In any case, he can not be excused-he wrote good economics in his youth. What changed his mind or turned him to the Dark Side?

The complete Talmud is now online. I wonder how many Jews swear on the Talmud as opposed to the Torah? It is the main scripture of the Pharisee Sect-the only major sect to survive the Destruction of Jerusalem and the dispersion. And since Christ obviously hated them, to the extent He hated anything, bad feeling between Christians and Jews was and is inevitable. Now the words of the prophets and psalms were always on Christ's lips. No one can say he hated His own Tradition. So why did he hate the Pharisees? Because they were changing the interpretation of everything. It was still an oral tradition at that point, but already well developed. It often changed the meaning of a passage to completley the opposite. And thus, it is basically a new Religion and not Judaism at all. When the Jews came back from Babylon, many of them brought back alot of Occultism and beliefs from that region. That was the begining of it. Real Judaism might be limited now to the Falashas of Ethiopia who lost contact before the Talmud came. Also there is a very small sect known as the Kairites who have rejected the Talmud. The Talmudists portray Jehovah, their ostensible God, as studying the Talmud everyday. This is proof that the have changed the Religion. Why would God have to study his own Word? No, the Rabbis are the real God here, as the epitome of the Jewish people. The Jews have put their faith in a collective theosis. Kind of like Advaita Vedanta for the masses.

The above quotations make sense when you realize that the Talmudists believe that only they are Human. We are just talking animals. And animals can't own property. Or shouldn't anyway. As one commentator said, "The life of a goi and all his physical powers belong to a Jew."

"Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."

Thats why we have NUKES! (Fucking MORON)

"What if tomorrow morning you woke up to headlines that yet another Chinese drone bombing on U.S. soil killed several dozen ranchers in a rural community while they were sleeping? "

Hmmm...sounds like Hamas shooting rockets willy-nillie into Israeli cities.

I think you're right to assume that when the shit hits the fan it will be caused by war in the middle east but I don't see that happening now. I can imagine the US going into Iran but not unless provoked. I'm guessing all diplomatic methods will be used unless an immediate threat is detected. Who knows what Israel will do but that's normal and will likely be short and bloody but not sure if it will trigger WWIII this time around.

As far as Greenspan's comments I suspect he is right in the short term. The reason is that the bulk of Americans *think* that the recovery is working because the tail is being wagged in the media so hard. In other words it appears the bubble is being reinflated, albeit covered in patches.

I suspect by Spring we'll see housing prices on the mend which will cause an immediate pent up reaction of people pseudo economic growth.

So in a nutshell I agree with your prediction but I see it happening in years not months. There are an incredible number of thumbs in this dyke; it will hold for some time. But in the end it seems it will break. The only way to avoid disaster is if someone successfully builds a new levee behind this crumbling one and the time they buy is measured by public perception. If they can keep the masses entertained long enough and their noses in their work they might succeed... but for me... and I suspect everyone else commenting/reading your blog it just buys us time to prepare.

The US did not "rule the world" for a couple of generations. You forget that a big chunk of the globe was communist and that the US couldn't even control what happened a stone's throw away in Cuba. The US meddled in places like Iran and Vietnam and got its ass kicked, fought a bloody war in Korea which ended in a draw. The US was effective in keeping the Russians out of western Europe and kept Japan down but Europe and Japan are not the world. Now it's embroiled fighting medieval peasant farmers in Afghanistan and getting nowhere. The US is and was powerful but it did not and does not "rule the world".

"The failure to recognize this dynamic is the most impressive part of the meltdown."


Hey Jim, how many people waited for the ash to stop falling in Pompeii, thinking or being told it was almost done spewing?

How many folks perished on the Titanic because they didn't design it to have enough lifeboats for every man, woman and child aboard?

Better yet, how many tens of millions of people live on or near the San Andreas fault region in western United States?

History is replete with examples of human ignorance on a grand scale. If I could bet one thing, it would be that the ignorance will persist right up until we are in the dark, completely isolated from one another. Then watch out, because the roving bands of lunatics will not know who to direct their angst against.

I believe Celente coined the term "lunatic middle". Well, we are witnessing a lunacy never before seen in the annals of history.

@ Jeago

Been thinking a lot about the Dune/ME comparison. Wouldn't you agree that Osama Bin Laden makes a perfect Paul Atreides ? Both hairs to mighty families, both flee out into the desert to raise an army of fanatic warriors.

Oil = Spice
US marines = Sadoukar
AIPAC = Bene Gesserit

My point is that perhaps Osama read it too. Or maybe he just saw the Lynch movie one night while he was in his student party phase and liked the ending. Enemies crushed, Empire his, Sean Young boned, Sting chopped in half.

If I remember the VO right:
"Paul Muadieb/Osama bin Ladin was now the right hand of God, Emperor of the known univers/islamic caliphate"

If only we could ask him.

As an added note consider the inspiration that Aum Shinrikyo sect ( of the Tokyo Sarin gassing) supposedly drew from Asimov's Foundation Series. Maybe Herbert is Osama's Asimov?

Jim, you are very smart when you are grounded in facts; that is, when facts form the basis of your blog comment, as in domestic affairs; however, in the absence of known facts, your imagination runs wild and invents all sorts of crazy scenarios that seem to me to be more pulp fiction narrative than anything real.
For example, with respect to Israel attacking Iran: how will they do this without the consent of the United States? Certainly, Israel can launch cruise missiles from submarines in the Persian Gulf; however, in order to attack Iran from the air, the Israeli Air Force will need to get clearance from the United States to fly over any country that could get them there, all of which air space is controlled by the United States. I have a lot of trouble imagining that President Obama will give clearance for the Israeli Air Force to fly over Iraq---or any other air space that the USA controls---in order for them to bomb Iran on a whim.
You know, every country, more or less, has some internal organizing principle that---although it may not work for us---nevertheless, seems to work for them. Think of the great dam-building projects of the 20th century, straightening out the rivers for commerce and energy development; eventually, those rivers will end up meandering around just as they did before. Just so, whatever the U.S. does in Afghanistan, the place will revert to its old self eventually, and so will all the rest of those countries.

books you might enjoy

Soros former partner Jim Rogers wrote 2 travel books..he really takes on greenspan in one of them

also:

'THE DEATH OF COMMON SENSE'
'THE NEW THOUGHT POLICE'

Rogers writes that woodward ..who won a pulitzer wrote ' meastro' about greenspan

' HE KNEW AS MUCH ABOUT GREENSPAN AS THE FAMILY DOG DOES'....he put that into print

ANYONE READING THIS....Now that asia / sauds are dumping greenbacks...how will this push the already falling dominos?

Barak offers us commoners a modern day 'circuses and bread' or tried to!

Well that's the thing about already falling dominos... they just keep gaining momentum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDB1A9WcDoI

And then on a slightly smaller scale, a good visual analogy for complex, intertwined systems... I like the "ominous" music in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHZGiGZlixM

Greenspan would use the Talmud because it = Law. He is an atheist. And if you want to kow why his economics changed l seek no further than Ayn Rand. He was one of her disciples.

Hence the dark side.

....the time they buy is measured by public perception.

Excellent insight. Yes that is what they are trying to do. As long as most people don't have a clue there is time. The longer they remain clueless the more time we have. So maybe we should all just shut up.

I have tracked your PPL using my mentat abilities enhanced by the Spice. The Montana Fremen will be there soon to talk with you.

Rand was Jewish too for what it's worth. And Capitalism and Communism aren't as far apart as people think-they start different places and converge on the same goal in their final form. She doesn't bring that out-she's too romantic. Now is a great time to read Atlas Shrugged-events are mirroring her novel. Anyway, we used to have our economic system-which like Islam's, wasn't based on usury. I think we should go back to something like that and let the Jews keep these sytems. But I don't think they would want them-just like the term Judeo-Christian, they were always meant for us and not for them.

Ben Gurion was an atheist too, but he believed all the promises the non existant God made to Israel. And he believed they were the chosen people-superior both spirtitually and mentally. The Jews are a fascinating people-capable of great congnitive dissonance. And great loyalty. Even their gangsters, like Meyer Lansky used to donate money to Israel. Our Billionaires live in castles and seek isolation-their billionaires work for greater Israel. In the loyalty department, they have us beat hands down.

The Jews have a huge history of organized crime in America-and I'm not even talking about White Collar. But their Media and Film industries have blamed it all on the Italians and their Irish side kicks. But the Jews were often just as big as the Italians.

"Greenspan would use the Talmud because it = Law."

The question is. or should be, who's law?


"Democracy assumes that all of us collectively are smarter than any of us individually. Thus the need for an unbiased media to provide the facts with which we can reason together. Thus, in turn, the need for pro-Israeli dominance of mainstream media by those skilled at waging war by way of deception. Thus what we now see portrayed in that domain: a world turned inside out where the aggressor is portrayed as victim and the predator as prey.

With consensus beliefs the upstream target, democracy becomes the downstream casualty. To protect the informed consent essential to liberty requires that those waging war on our shared mindset be made transparent. This method of warfare is ancient; only the means are modern.

The common source of this duplicity remains unknown to the public. There lies the strategic role for online media unadorned by conspiracy theories that obscure the clarity required to wage this battle with confidence."


http://criminalstate.com/2009/07/facts-vs-beliefs-%e2%80%93-today%e2%80%99s-ancient-warfare/

do you live in a big city?
if so whats it like?

i know someone who spent most of his life in SanDiego...and decided to go ' back east'...this is what he said
' we put the parking pass upside down and got 300$ worth of tickets in 1 day in manhattan..I couldnt believe the area in Queens we were in..it was the dominican republic2....and south philly was HORRIBLE!'

ALSO JS YOU HAVE NOT GIVE ME MORE INFO ON THE SIERRA CLUB

CHARLIE WILSON (OF CHARLIE WILSON'S WAR) ON AFGHANISTAN WITHDRAWAL

"It's probably best to make a calculated withdrawl. If I were the president .... I'd probably shut it down, rather than lose a lot of soldiers and treasure.

"I'd rather take on a chain saw," Mr. Wilson said. "They're the world's best foot soldiers, best warriors. And they're fearless.

"They're fearless, and they've got nothing to lose. And they have a pretty serious hatred for those who try to occupy their country."

asoka-the-producers sez:

"A Judeo-Christian nation is the only country in the history of the world that has been so uncivilized and barbaric as to intentionally use nuclear weapons to burn civilian populations alive."

A Judeo-Christian nation is the only country in the history of the world that saw the abhorrent evil that had been let loose on this planet and knew instinctively that by all means necessary that evil must be silenced. It was. And ultimately the numbers that died were less had an atomic weapon not been detonated.

Beyond the saving of lives at the time, a message was seared into the collective conscience of everyone that the use of atomic or nuclear weapons has horrific consequences. Over half a century has passed and no further deployment has occurred. Why? Because to date, those nations that hold that type of power have come from traditions of both religious and moral grounding.

The argument of whether or not Iran as a nation would use nuclear weapons is a moot point. The question is would they pass the knowledge or an actual weapon onto someone else who would then use the weapon to do Iran's bidding. There is not a doubt in my mind that the current regime would not bat an eye in doing just that.

asoka-the-producers sez:

"I would bet they have used the open southern border (the swiss cheese tunnel-ridden USA-Mexico border) to bring nuclear weapons into the USA."

Is that what you think you creepy little fuck? And yet you rail about how illegal immigration is perfectly jake and that there is no need to beef up our southern border patrols? Even though you believe a nuke has been smuggled into the United States? What kind of completely amoral FUCKTARD are you?

zzzzz said: "And yet you rail about how illegal immigration is perfectly jake and that there is no need to beef up our southern border patrols?"

You misrepresent my position. I want the border patrols reassigned to law enforcement, directed toward criminals, to arrest people who have done something VIOLENT, not toward people who cross an invisible line to find work and support their families.

I want the border removed. I want free and open movement between Mexico, United States, and Canada. I want increased immigration in both directions, in all directions, with zero restrictions. No quotas. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my position.

zzzzz, you should join me in eliminating this government-run border patrol program. After all the government can't do anything right... correct?

Help me to reduce taxes spent on the border patrol. We want to reduce the size of government... right?

Help me, Grover, to shrink the border patrol until it is so small it can be drowned in a bathtub.

Where are your conservative principles?

AL FRANKEN AMENDMENT PASSES WITH BIPARTISAN SUPPORT

"The story came to my attention of Jamie Leigh Jones who, when she was 19, went to Iraq to work for [defense contractor] KBR and she was put in the barracks with 400 men and was sexually harassed. She complained. But they didn't do anything about it. She was drugged and gang raped and they locked her up in a shipping container. She tried to sue KBR and they said you have a mandatory arbitration clause in your contract. She tried to fight back and said this is ridiculous. She took it to court and they have been fighting her for three years."

"This bill would make it so that anybody in business with the Department of the Defense can't do this," Franken concluded emphatically. "They can't have mandatory arbitration on issues like assault and battery."

DRUGGED AND GANG RAPED: YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK

KBR SHOULD BE DE-FUNDED, OR ACORN SHOULD BE RE-FUNDED.

AL FRANKEN AMENDMENT PASSES WITH BIPARTISAN SUPPORT

"The story came to my attention of Jamie Leigh Jones who, when she was 19, went to Iraq to work for [defense contractor] KBR and she was put in the barracks with 400 men and was sexually harassed. She complained. But they didn't do anything about it. She was drugged and gang raped and they locked her up in a shipping container. She tried to sue KBR and they said you have a mandatory arbitration clause in your contract. She tried to fight back and said this is ridiculous. She took it to court and they have been fighting her for three years."

"This bill would make it so that anybody in business with the Department of the Defense can't do this," Franken concluded emphatically. "They can't have mandatory arbitration on issues like assault and battery."

DRUGGED AND GANG RAPED: YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK

KBR SHOULD BE DE-FUNDED, OR ACORN SHOULD BE RE-FUNDED.

Yes, the Republic is dead. Killed by an abberant Christianity. The Missionaries got lazy and decided to bring the heathen here instead of going out to where they were. And plus you can make money off them especially if they're illegal. And doubleplus minus you can tie them into your welfare state mentality and get them to vote Democratic.

The streets are filled with Orcs, Trolls, and hideous half men like Trolls. Huge Black Southrons laughing, grinning, screaming, staring. Cruel Easterlings from far away who work unceasingly like machines plotting our downfall. And most numerous the swarthy men from the Southland, jewels on their fingers, knives in their pockets, and larceny in their hearts. Shall the swarthy men feast in the White Tower? I say no. We must make a stand like Roland even until our swords themselves sweat-else live as thralls and our children after us. When destruction comes, flee North and West. You will find us there.

One of my ravens has gone missing, but the other tells me it was the Jew Greenbaum-who gave the command to the so called Sierra Club and with it the paper, the not gold as a "convinca". His first name may be David, but he is no King.

Yes, my Black Brother. You are righter than you know. It takes alot of money to have a real Country-are we willing to pay it? The minimal taxes the Founders envisioned presupposed many things. Are we willing to tithe-give one tenth of our income to our church so it can provide social aid to people in the congregation who are in need?

One social scientist, Charles Colson, expanded on this theme in what has come to be called Colson's Law: Goverment must do what the people fail to do for themselves. The more flourishing churches, the fewer prisons. The more old ladies looking out windows, the fewer policemen. The more women at home taking care of their own children, the less day care. The more parental enforcement, the less need for govermental enforcement.

Is this approach cheaper? Depends how you calculate it. Maybe less in actual money, but certainly more in terms of time and committment. The idea of the Libertarian types that a perfect society will ensue if Goverment shrinks to nothing is ludicrous. We can only shrink Goverment if we take up the slack ourselves. From a conservative point of view, it sure beats being taxed to support things you don't believe in like abortion. But it's amazing how many Conservatives don't understand. And if they did, they wouldn't get elected because the people wouldn't want to hear it.

As for the border and the invasion: deputize half a million unemployed White Men. They'd have the Mexicans on the run within two weeks. They'd seal the border-along with e-verify to keep them from coming back to work, and we'd have this country running again within two months or so. And if the Mexicans don't like it, arm another half million White Men and let them come on. They would be running for their lives in a week. And then with all the illegals gone, the unemployment problem would be solved. It really is that simple if your mind isn't bound by PC strictures. We can read license plates from outer space-and you want to tell me we can't keep these people out? Balderdash my Black Friend. Balderdash.

Can you expand upon all this? I can see how Greenspan might have started out as her disciple, but later wasn't he a Keynesian? Are you saying that she was a secret Keynesian too? Didn't really believe her own docrines?

I enjoyed her novels-the characters are archetypes as has been said, but she does highlight some basic moral conflicts that Christiainity and Socialism often overlook. I haven't read too much of her actual philosophy so I really don't know. In other words, this is not a trick question.

Also it might be time for you to tell us how they destroyed your would be career at NASA-if you feel like it.

Generally history has found it best to keep women away from horny men-certainly not to put them in the same barracks! Especially in war, dangerous situations bring out the beast in man. And we mustn't kill the beast as the feminists would have us do-as the poet Rilke said when he refused psychoanalysis: I would not have my demons exorcised lest my Angels take flight as well. Or remember that Star Trek episode where Kirk is split into a weak good man and an strong evil man. The weak good man could not live without the evil man-it gave the force and drive.

Most women get into the Army as a way to get free education. When called up for active service, they often find themselves pregnant. I love the feminine use of the passive tense. And I would rather the committed ones not to be there either. A country that sends mothers into battle is a country far along on its way to extinction. And both Israel and the Soviet Union were all for gender equality in the begining. But it just turns out that women aren't as good at killing as men are. That should make Feminists happy, right? Oh no-anything we can do they can do better! And with women on the front line, men are put at greater risk trying to take care of them. And the women just naturally go with this. It's just all wrong. If our country is attacked-then let the women fight along side of us to defend our homes and children as they did against the Indians.

Absolutely ZERO Libertarians opt for shrinking government down to nothing. Your extremism is showing, you twit. You lead this discussion weekly with your all or nothing decrees. To you, it's all black and white,isn't it?
But, in the long run, your discourses are all about you, anyway. The world as viewed through your bloodshot ant eyes. Get a hobby or girlfriend.

"Absolutely ZERO Libertarians opt for shrinking government down to nothing."

This is the only portion of your post that was useful or pertinant. A person with conviction is appreciated more than one with rancor.

"Inattentional blindness, also known as perceptual blindness, is the phenomenon of not being able to see things that are actually there. This can be a result of having no internal frame of reference to perceive the unseen objects, or it can be the result of the mental focus or attention which cause mental distractions. The phenomenon is due to how our minds see and process information. Closely related to the subject of change blindness, it is an observed phenomenon of the inability to perceive features in a visual scene when the observer is not attending to them. That is to say that humans have a limited capacity for attention which thus limits the amount of information processed at any particular time. Any otherwise salient feature within the visual field will not be observed if not processed by attention.

Apophenia is the experience of seeing patterns or connections in random or meaningless data.

Conrad originally described this phenomenon in relation to the distortion of reality present in psychosis, but it has become more widely used to describe this tendency in healthy individuals without necessarily implying the presence of neurological differences or mental illness. In the case of autistic spectrum disorders, including Asperger syndrome and individuals who are autistic savants, individuals may in fact be aware of patterns (such as those present in complex systems, large numbers, music, etc) that are infrequently noticed by neurotypical people. Rather than being aware of patterns that do not exist, autistic individuals may be aware of meaningful patterns within situations that appear meaningless to others."

http://cryptogon.com/?p=11486

None? Don't be so sure-I have met many. Margaret Thatcher for example, once just casually said that she didn't believe in Society per se-that the Goverment was should just be the enforcer of private contracts.

Anyway, I originally framed my post in terms of what the Founding Fathers wanted-which is not what the Libertarians want in any case-my ones or your ones. The vision of the Founders cannot be had by pure Capitalism alone or mitigiated by a Ron Paul type situation. I like Ron Paul, I voted for him. He wants to investigate the Fed. And end illegal immigration. He wants to slow down the replacement of the White Man to a million legal immirants a year. On top of a few hundered thousand tech workers I imagine. Not sure. I admit I don't know everything; more than you certainly. No country this diverse can ever be peaceful or prosperous. Name one. The Austro-Hungarian Empire was a basket case-and that discord was just among Christian White Men! Blacks, Asians, and Mesizos? Are you for real? And the Founders meant this to be a White Man's country-if you don't know that you are just a dupe plain and simple.

Ron Paul is a good man within the limits of what's acceptable. If he had posed a serious threat, they would have published his contacts with people like me, the far right. And destroyed him thereby. So he shuts up even though I suspect he knows the Truth about what America was supposed to be. And thus compromises his vision and works within the ever diminshing room of acceptability. He should have fought for a recount in New Hampshire but I think he got scared or was just too tired. He didn't really believe in what he was doing or himself. Why should he when was already compromised?

Sometimes things are just Black and White. And the ability and willingness to call Black, Black and White, White is the basis of mental health-and from that comes energy and courage. Ron Paul is not extraordinary-the country was one full of Ron Pauls. He is just better than the rest of the politicians. But not good enough to do what must be done. What needs be, must be after all. Thank you for the energy of your attack. You are not sprawled in a heap ten feet away.

Thanks for throwing me in the loony bin pal. I'm not crazy, I'm just big. And I can choose what's important too-not all the contents of consciousness are equally important. Such choosing is the basis of sanity-and virtue. Some things I say are just for fun. And people who can be my friend get that. The straight and narrow types, like you for example perhaps, stay away from me and I from them. I have learned. The difference is that I respect them from a distance while they do not respect me. Their loss and their mistake.

So much of virtue is looking good isn't it?
And that's how we get corrupted too. The Sufis have a whole path called malamaat or the way of blame-playing the fool is a great way to purify your character. To not care what others think of you-truly the basis of any higher life. Similar to the Fools for Christ of Orthodoxy. One can't practice it if one has an important position in the world. And maybe not if you have any kind of job at all. Perhaps that's the problem with the world...you can't be yourself or get back to yourself by playing the fool. So don't try this at work...or maybe just a modified eccentric version. Just calling yourself a Christian will make people hate you. But then you want to look good at church...It's never ending.

"Also it might be time for you to tell us how they destroyed your would be career at NASA"
-----------------------------

Yes, by all means Abbey ... tell us how **THEY** destroyed your would be career at NASA. I wait with bated breath.


Time to rename this "clusterblack nation" and let Jaego write the commentary, since he apparently has absolutely nothing else to do but reply to every post and comment on everything that ricochets through his distorted consciousness.

I'd rather read the histrionical nonsense of Parrot Boy, and at the rate posters are dropping out here it may be PB vs. "The Slavic Nazi" as the only thing left here quite soon. Justice will be served.

Yes, smartass, conviction is everything. This was the feeling of Hitler, Stalin, George Lincoln Rockwell, Attila, Goering, Goebbels, Himmler...get the picture, smartass? As long as one is committed and "accepts responsiblility", the new mantra, what the fuck, let 'er go....sumbitch, I thought I was the only person who knew the meaning of apophenia...thousand pardons, so solly. You are soooooooo smart, I iz impressed to the max...I just love your endless discourse, it soothes me....they taught you a helluva lot back in PS 24, didn't they?

Dale, a similar thought occured to me today. I was reading one after the other of Jaego's responses to any and all others and marveling at the singleminded energy with which he goes about his task. Rational replies to JS do not go over his head nor do they go in one ear and out the other ... rather they are like cosmic rays that pass through him without so much as nicking a quark of his white nationalist mass.

More amazing, JS is undaunted by thoughts that in twenty years, give or take, he will cease to exist ... in the way that a candle flame ceases to exist in the face of a stiff breeze ... that all his bluster will prove to have been for naught ... and that the remnants of our coterie still standing will be struggling to recall the name of that fascist guy at Whutsizzname's blog.

"KBR SHOULD BE DE-FUNDED"
---------------------------

I bought 100 shrs of KBR on 11/19/08 at $11.50/shr and its $22.38 as we speak.

asoka-piece-of-fuck sez:

"I want the border removed. I want free and open movement between Mexico, United States, and Canada."


Of course you do you fucking little trader. You stated that you believe that a nuclear device has been smuggled in thru our "swiss cheese" southern border. So, naturally you would want to increase the likelihood of a terrorist strike happening on U.S soil by removing the border all together. That is because you are a parasitic, traitorous, insignificant speck of vomit.

"A Judeo-Christian nation is the only country in the history of the world that saw the abhorrent evil that had been let loose on this planet and knew instinctively that by all means necessary that evil must be silenced."
-------------------------------

I agree entirely.

When my eldest son was a skinny, meek and glasses-wearing eighth grader a bully picked him out for special harrassment. When I heard the stories I was furious. I told Q Jr to pass behind the bully's seat and hit him on the head with all your strength with a very heavy book. I said, with any luck he'll just be knocked out cold but if you break a few vertebrae that's OK too. I guarantee, when word gets around, you'll never be harrassed again, by anybody. He did not take my advice. Time went by and today he is 6'8" and 275 lbs. He still seems meek but no one cares to find out for sure. Speak softly and carry a big book.

"Of course you do you fucking little trader."
--------------------------

Calm down Zzz ... remember Safire's rule #4. The Slimy eel is smiling and saying "Got to 'em."

I think there's a very good chance the market topped last month, but I am still apprehensive about playing the market from the short side for longer term positions because of all the govt intervention and accounting and tax rule changes. Instead, for investors I think a safer plan is cash, gold, and some gold mining stocks. It is pretty clear that the Fed is going to keep doing whatever is necessary to try to stave off deflation, and this means a lot more money printing. So that means a weaker dollar and a higher gold price, in my view. I recently came across a good site that has an intraday gold blog at http://www.goldalert.com/gold_price_blog.php that discusses news and trends in gold mining companies, which I think is beneficial for investors and traders. There are many serious unintended consequences of all the money printing, and I think this is going to lead to much higher inflation all over the world due to the debasement of fiat currencies.

"Of course you do you fucking little trader"
----------------------------

I don't think Slimy plays the market but he's certainly a traitor.

"Thanks for throwing me in the loony bin pal."

That was not my purpose, at all. I was trying to show, both you and bahmi, that we {all of us!!}are much more likely to be ignorant, than stupid. We are misdirected to pay attention to some things, in order to not pay attention to other things. The phrase, "too poor to pay attention" comes to mind. I know things you need to know and you know things I need to know. I can say this to almost anyone.

Just because others have a different way of seeing things does not make them crazy. I can assure you, I get {comprehend} the "outside the camp" stuff. I have been "unchurched", so to speak, for 15 years. Not dis-fellowshipped {officially}, but you can tell when they are tired of your questions.

The difference between us; I don't think everything has a political solution. Things are the way they are for good reasons. Try reading the link this time.

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/weblog/WebPosting.cfm?LogID=1735

FAT DUMB HAPPY

thats USA in 3 words..Oh hes in Canada...
i post from Multicultural U...where you must fufill requirements in GLOBAL CITIZENSHIP to get a degree.....AND WE HAVE OVER 1000 ILLEGALS ATTENDING....

i skipped the schools talk on CHAGAS earlier this week....Doctors w/o borders...thought I...how appropriate...The Power elites push for a world w/o borders...Soros and his 'open' society...and diseases from 'latin' america [schools term]...formerly Us had almost none...now has 300,000 cases

o no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! telling us about the family.
you didnt mention the name Trungpa rinpoche but i think yr kin in Boulder got drawn into his cult!

"Yes, smartass, conviction is everything."

I didn't say it was "everything" I said it is
"appreciated more than rancor". Being convinced deserves a hearing, not a free pass or useless invective.

I wasnt even looking for it..popped right up on yahoo

Dr. Sheba K. Meymandi, director of the Center, was on hand at the panel, along with doctors from Drugs For Neglected Diseases (DNDI), and Doctors Without Borders, who answered questions from moderator Julio Cesar Ortiz of KMEX-TV,

I've read this blog since reading the Long Emergency in '05. Most of this blog seems to be involved in "useless invective." A lot of bright commentators seem to be caught up in personal attacks rather than discussion of the issues. I'm missing thoughtful discussion of JHK's writing. I want to learn more about peak oil. I guess I need to read other stuff...

Experts--What's the best book to read on Peak Oil?


Qshtik said: "Calm down Zzz ... remember Safire's rule #4. The Slimy eel is smiling and saying "Got to 'em."

Safire's work was unburdened by fact checking and unchallenged by editors. Safire was more intent on manipulating than interpreting information. It is not hard to understand why you adore the man.

PALIN/BACHMANN 2012
http://twitter.com/palinBachmann

perhaps you should do stand up comedy!:

'their billionaires work for greater Israel. In the loyalty department, they have us beat hands down. '

Not an expert, but a book I found fairly useful and readable was "The End of Oil" by Paul Roberts. The books by Kenneth Deffeyes were also good, but the Roberts' book is more succinct.

o no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! telling us about the family.
you didnt mention the name Trungpa rinpoche but i think yr kin in Boulder got drawn into his cult!
------------------------------

Not sure how your reply relates to my post but.........

The family story is my way of saying I think there's a time and place for violence in this world. The best lessons come from one's own life where no one in the world could have greater expertise.

The people I wrote about were in Denver not Boulder, Paulette is my wife's kin, not mine and I wouldn't know Trungpa from third base.

Sometimes your posts are quite perceptive and I enjoy them but often they're cryptic. I don't understand why you don't aim for the clarity you're capable of. This isn't poetry or abstract sculpture we're dealing in here.


Frank9,

Thanks for asking about books on peak oil. The Clusterfuck blog is the right place to come to learn new things. Ask and ye shall receive.

Here are some of the influential titles on peak oil:

http://www.amazon.com/PEAK-OIL-BOOKS/lm/26CCG716IZ4VC

By the way, this blog is called Clusterfuck because it is an example of Clusterfuck.

So, don't take too seriously a lot of the comments from the jaded, cynical, blasphemous, cussing, put-down artists who "contribute" here.

There are pearls of rational discourse to be found on Clusterfuck, a lot of intelligent and insightful commentary, and, frequently, useful links.

LIBERTARIAN IDEAS HAVE BEEN TRIED... AND FAILED

SMALLER GOVERNMENT, LESS REGULATION, REDUCED TAXES LEADS TO FAILURE

"Friedman saw Iceland as his utopia. "I would like to be a zero-government libertarian [but] I don't think it's a feasible social structure. I look over history, and outside of perhaps Iceland, where else can you find any historical examples of that kind of a system developing?"

At first, the policies appeared to be very successful. The economy grew at a strong pace, rising until Iceland achieved one of the highest per capita GDPs in the world. In 2007 it also topped the score for the United Nation's Human Development Index.

Iceland rocketed to the top 10 in the indexes of economic freedom. The Cato Institute praised the "Nordic Tiger" for its flat taxes, privatization and economic freedoms, and rated it as the least regulated country in the world.

Unfortunately, it has become evident that these libertarian policies were not the panacea that Friedman claimed they were. In fact, economists are already using Iceland as a textbook case of how to ruin a nation's economy. As Paul Krugman recently noted, there is an "almost eerie correlation between conservative praise two or three years ago and economic disaster today."

"Sometimes things are just Black and White."
--------------------------------------

... and somtimes they're not. Take the recent news on Michelle Obama's ancestry. She's got some white blood in her and for all you and I know, we've got some black blood. This is my lead-in to a previous subject that was never adequately discussed.

You stake a great deal on the "fact" that blacks have lower IQs than whites ... more so than cultural differences. Because of the "dumb" factor you would have whites do one or more of the following:

* not inter-breed
* "get them out of our hair" by providing them their own state (with Capital in Atlanta)
* prepare for inter-racial war
* other "solutions" you may have mentioned that I've forgotten

What measure would you use to determine who is black? Birth records? Family trees? What percent constitutes "black?" ... 1/8th, 1/2, 17/32nds, 3/4ths? What about the problem of inadequate records? What about the logistics of splitting up families where some measure as black and others as white? Obviously, the complexities would make a Rubick's Cube look like child's play.

If a bell curve of all black IQs is overlayed on the bell curve for whites there is bound to be some overlap, maybe even a lot. Perhaps the smart blacks should be brought over to the white side and the dumb whites should be sent to Atlanta?

Really, doesn't it all come down to IQ? Why not just administer IQs to everyone and ship the dumbest 10% or 20% to Atlanta? regardless of color ... and tuff shit for that rare dumb-ass asian.

As the dumbasses in Atlanta begin having children some are bound to be brite so it would only be fair to have periodic IQ tests administered to those offspring and if they qualify offer them a shot at moving in with the smartasses.

I don't want to drag this wet dream of your's on too far. You get my drift. There are no practical solutions and all your talk of black inferiority is meaningless.

White America's olympic team would be reduced to Archery and Curling.

Everything you have ever written is nothing more than an elaborate rationale cooked up to support your hatred of blacks and only death will free you from this obsession. Well, I mis-spoke. You also hate Jews and women but we'll deal with that in a separate comment.

For squished dick and Jaego. Jaego got my comments mixed up in two places. I was offered a NASA grant by my adviser to continue my research in perception. I told him I couldn't accept it because it was from tax money and I didn't have the right to take other people's money for my work. Well he was just astonished. And if you don't take govt money to do research then you aren't going to do much research. That's who pays for it. And if you are an experimental psychologist and don't do research, forget it. Positions, tenure, power, is the only game in town. Teaching classes is a sideline. Stupid me. So I went into the clinical part of psychology. Now I would say yes yes yes thank you thank you, as it was an extraordinary gift he gave me and I turned it down.

As for Greespan he was a Keynesian before Rand converted him to laissez-faire capitalism and when he lectured there it was on laissez-faire.

No I was not even close to having a career with NASA. They just gave grants for research and still do.

"this blog is called Clusterfuck because it is an example of Clusterfuck."
------------------------

Wow! Who whudda thunk it? Thanks for the profound observation.

As the Koran says, "Nothing abides but His Face." I'm glad that you are meditating on death, but why just focus on mine? Be sure to think about your own as well. I try to meditate on my own death everyday. Truly it gives perspective. So of the few years I have remaining, what is the most valuable thing to focus on? The survival of the White Race of course. We are threatened and you don't care. The first in unacceptable. And that you don't care, monstrous. We will not go quietly into the good night. And this attitude and the actions that follow from it, will insure our survival. And we may well lose North America, no guarantees at all. But the Slavs will see the incredible cruelty with which we have been treated, and they will turn their faces like flint agaisnt any and all enemies who would do the same to them. They are watching the destruction of Western Europe with the keenest attention even now. Perhaps someday, the tattered remnants of our People will migrate back to Russian-from which our Race emerged aeons ago. We could become their sword arm in Siberia-holding back the Chinese incursion on the Eastern Border as the Cossacks have done for centuries in the South.

And Jaego with your paragraph back there on all the different colors you are straight out of Lovecraft. The particular story is Dream of Kadath I think. Lovecraft was a racist and had good reason to be. He saw all these hhoardes in New York City. Big, muscular immigrants, barbarians and he couldn't get a job anywhere. H was so educated, cultivated and willing to work practically free but couldn't get into publishing anywhere. Not one offer.

Six months after he was dead his friends started Arkham House Publishing to publish his writings. The first hardbook collection sold 60,000 copies in 1938 which was a phenomenal amount at the time. He has never been out of print since and couldn't make a living while he was alive. Just bare bones and always really really poor.

More Lovecraft.

My favorite racist passages are from "He", "The Call of Cthulu" and "The Horror out of Red Hook" and "The Shadow Over Innsmouth". I don't think there are any great passages of this nature in "The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath". But I've never read that one all the way though-found it tedious except for the ending which is incredible paen of beauty to Boston and the New England he loved so much.

You have been neglecting your studies, Marm. He will not be pleased.

Oh sorry for flying off the handle a bit. Your point is good: reality is complex and we see what we are conditioned to see-or what we want to see. I focus on the latter; I've always been obsessed with the 800 pound pink gorilla in the room that everyone is studiously ignoring. They can see it-I notice how their eyes dart past it. But they pretend it's not there, which emboldens it. It start to make threatening and obscene gestures...There I go again. To be continued.

I like the part about the Woodrow and the wooden yoke. It surely was a yoke-I've read that he regretted alot of things later. The Edomites tempted the poor fool-told him that he could be "first president of the world". And he was surrounded by some very powerful men. The so called Colonel, apparently had psychic powers-he could "pump" ideas into a person's head. People sat down with him totally opposed to him and an hour later were of "one" mind with him.

The Preacher and you may be right. Maybe my faith is just too weak...My prayer right now is that He strengthen our arms and hearts for the battle to come. Surely He will not resent that his people fight when the time comes. If we wait until everyone understands everything it will be too late to save any part of this country. When the Easter Rising was betrayed to the British by an informant, most of the organizers said to call it off-an incredibly demoralizing affair that would put the Revolution back decades. Pearse stood up and said No, we need a blood sacrafice. And boy did they get it. And the Irish People loathed them-downtown Dublin was destroyed. But when the British started shooting the Rebels, the People groaned and the scales fell from their eyes. They awoke and won their freedom. But many of the Rebels later wondered if it was all worth it. Everything just put on an Irish veneer of the same British Culture. The real Irish Culture was dying and very few really cared. So if you rebel without an inner awakening, this can be the result-your point perhaps. My response: our current masters want to put an end to us in the most fundamental way-biologically. We cannot wait much longer. The British were very benign compared to these devils.

Without oil.....
What did you do today without oil?
http://www.suburbanempire.com

Oh you're too much. You really didn't know that Michelle Obama has some White Blood in her? Everone else did-just by looking at her. You really are a mediatied creature. You can titilate yourself all you want imagining that you have some Black Genes-I know I don't. My people are just off the boat-there were no Blacks where they came from-Europe has been White ever since the ice receeded. And beyond that, I can just look in the mirror.

But I think we are making progress: you are weakening. Reading between the lines of your disorganized post, I perceive than you know that the races are unequal. Either you've been doing your homework or more likely you knew all along but keep that part of your mind down in the subconscious. "That rare dumb asian"-you admit that they're naturally smarter? So therefore just as they are smarter than us, we could be smarter than the Blacks-no natural, cosmic, or divine law is violated. Groups differ-the basis of Darwin's work. And then you appeal to practicality and sports to keep up the status quo! You are losing.

What's practical depends on what you value. For ordinary men, that depends on what's good for them. My new psychologist friend wants a job at UCal-but is wondering whether to bother. He will lose so many points for being White and so many for being Male. I wasn't present, but he confirmed to others that if we got rid of affirmative action and just let the chips fall where they may, there would be virtually no Blacks in the good schools what to speak of law shcool or medical school. Berkley did it for a couple of years and Blacks disappeared like magic.

So your Good Society is based on lies and compulsion. Tyranny. And I'm the Hater? No, I hate what is being done and the people doing it. God himself hates evil. Hate is not wrong per se. That is another liberal lie-as if liberals don't hate as much as anyone. More, since they are keeping the whole thing going.

Thought experiment: is saying something against Blacks or Jews racist or antisemitic if the statement is true? Or does Truth not matter? According the Center for Disease Control, Blacks get Aids at five times the rate of Whites. Is that a racist statement? Even if it's true?
As for the Jews: if I quote things that the Jews themselves say or from their scriptures-does that make me an antisemite-just for saying it? Even if it's true that that is what they believe? Because they said it!? The Talmud says that Gentiles are animals-does quoting that make me a bigot or am I just revealing their bigotry?
That I have to even make this point is a sign of how bad things are and how boxed in consciousness has become.

I spelled perceive this way instead of my usual percieve. I before E accept after C except when it isn't. I hope this wasn't one of the exceptions which are are so common in English-making the rules something of a joke I'm afraid. You be my minister or Czar of Spelling when we take over. Make English Spelling make sense again. Not that it ever did-a bastard tongue not like Latin or German.

Dale is great. He pretends not to read my posts so I'll speak to the group. I find in Dale the remnants of intellectual integrity. Unlike Asoka, he wont defend illegal immigration into America with reams of nonsense about how it's helping us. No, Dale is smarter than that-He knows that it is destroying us-that's why he's for it. That's what Communism is about-destroying the West. He thinks that is great, but he can't bring himself to actually lie about it. He has self respect even if he has no respect for the Nation. Asoka has that so very typical Black Psychology of not being able to clearly distinguish the Truth from what he wants to be true. And when the Truth breaks out, He gets brutal and pretty much says, well turn about is fair play and yo chickens have come home to roost. And then the next minute or second(!) he is back to saying how great it will be for us! Asoka has a decent IQ-can write clear sentences and express himself, but he has no intellectal integrity whatsoever. Doesn't even understand the concept. It all just about winning-which makes him a perfect communist unlike Dale who is burdened with a conscience in howsoever a super annuated form.

I think he was nominated for not being George W. within the first twelve days after being elected. He won to make it more difficult to send more troops into a losing war, or start another one. So, naturally he is downplaying it's significance.

Barack Obama said that he does not feel he deserved to win the Nobel Prize. First time I have ever agreed with anything he said.

Obama is the ONLY president of the United States to receive the Nobel Peace Prize in the first year of his presidency.

Of course, he deserves it since he was working for peace even before becoming president. For example, Obama co-authored the Lugar-Obama Non-Proliferation Act which was passed in 2006 and signed in 2007.

In the words of its authors, this is what it does:

"These vast numbers of unused conventional weapons, particularly shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles that can hit civilian airliners, pose a major security risk to America and democracies everywhere. That’s why we have introduced legislation to seek out and destroy surplus and unguarded stocks of conventional arms in Asia, Europe, Latin America, Africa and the Middle East.
Our bill would launch a major nonproliferation initiative by addressing the growing threat from unsecured conventional weapons and by bolstering a key line of defense against weapons of mass destruction. Modeled after the successful Nunn-Lugar program to dismantle former Soviet nuclear weapons, the Lugar-Obama bill would seek to build cooperative relationships with willing countries."

Of course there are critics of Obama receiving the Peace Prize. The Taliban criticized Obama receiving the prize, as did the Republic Party. I imagine there are also other traitors and terrorists (Hamas perhaps) who would criticize an American president having the honor of receiving the Nobel Peace Prize.

"... have some Black Genes-I know I don't."
----------------------------

Possibly true ... but what about your sister Sonja's child. You are Uncle to a half-breed. You must be quite conflicted about that. Do you rate white racial purity ahead of membership in the human race?

"More Lovecraft."
-----------------

Abbey, I'm pleased that you and Jaego have had this exchange about the writings of Lovecraft. You have saved me from making a wasted trip to the library.

"Also it might be time for you to tell us how they destroyed your would be career at NASA-if you feel like it."
-------------------------

Jaego, I respectfully request that you point me back to where Abbey mentioned about having a would-be career at NASA destroyed. There aren't enough hours in a day to go re-reading everything ... I think it was weeks ago.

I want very much to read her exact words. As you might expect, I have ulterior motives. That's why I have not asked Abbey to point me back.

Just this week President Obama visited the National Counterterrorism Center outside Washington and declared that "because of our efforts" al Qaeda and its allies have "lost operational capacity." He cited recent arrests of terrorist suspects in Colorado, New York, Illinois, and Texas, asserting that these actions have made the nation safer.

Actions, not rhetoric. Arrests of terrorists, not pretty speeches. Passing legislation to confiscate "loose nukes," not singing Kumbayah.

Obama richly deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. Obama is making the USA and the world a safer place through his actions and his accomplishments that reduce the operational capacity of terrorists.

Jaego said: "Asoka ... has no intellectal integrity whatsoever. Doesn't even understand the concept."

My understanding of it is that, first you make CHARACTER out to be something desirable. I deny that character is desirable. Character, from the origins of the word ("to make a mark") means you are in a rut. You are not free. If you have character (you are marked and your neuronal pathways are rutted), then you cannot be authentic in your actions (what I have said is being free to act as the present moment requires). Having character means you are a slave to the ideology you have indoctrinated yourself with. (apologies to Safire for ending a sentence with a preposition)

Second, you, and others, seem to make a God out of consistency. So if you hold the belief that Whites are intellectually superior, then to have "intellectual integrity," you are bound to think, speak, and act consistent with that belief. Again, you are a slave to ideology. You are not free.

Let me give you a concrete example. I am free to criticize Obama one day, and appreciate him the next. I am free to practice Sufism on Monday, Christian contemplative prayer on Tuesday, dance and sing to Krishna on Wednesday, praise Judaism on Thursday (or Saturday), embrace heartily atheism on Friday, and be an agnostic on Saturday (when I'm not attending synagogue).

Most people cannot treat religion in that fashion. Because most people value character, consistency, and are slaves to their mental constructs.

I am a free man. I am large. I contain multitudes.

Back to your slanderous stories again, ok fuck you little man. A man who sinks to such depths is obviously a defeated man-or just a scumbag. You choose.

Oh, the Human Race! Oh I bow down in deference! Well my misundereducated little friend, scientists now know the tremendous variation that can exist within a species. Wolves and Dogs-same species. Are there no differences in behavior? Chimps and Bonobos-one a patriarchical species and the other completely matriarchiacal. Both are violent. If male bonobos get out of line they get ganged up on by the females-and severely beaten. But just like wolves and dogs, they are almost identical genetically. They should be classified as one species from a biological point of view-since they can almost certainly produce viable offspring. What's the moral? A little genetic difference can produce huge differences in psychology. As far as Whites and Blacks go-we can produce viable offspring together so in that sense we are the same species. But there are enough physical and psychological differences to justify classifying us as different species-as they do with the Chimps and Bonobos. Some say the difference between the races is greater than between these two species.

Science isn't always consistent since scientists are human beings. If they were being consistent they would classify the chimps and bonobos the same way they classify the wolves and dogs. Or vice versa. But what doesn't change is the moral: a little genetic difference leads to small but not necessarily insignificant physical differences. But that same difference can lead to very large psychological differences.

Not only do you not respect my post-and try to answer it seriously, but you in fact viciously insult me. And then you ask for a favor ten minutes later. Utterly shameless. There is no quality on Earth that I hate more than such shamelessness. Let me translate that for you in terms that you can understand: No, I will not help you find her post.

You just want to beat up on her anyway-I asked respectfully and really was interested. She got beat up pretty good last week-not that she didn't deserve it. Why don't you give her a chance to recover?

Jaego said: "Asoka ... has no intellectal integrity whatsoever. Doesn't even understand the concept.

I gave my understanding of the concept when I posted some time ago on the meaning of the word CHARACTER which has this history: [Middle English carecter, distinctive mark, imprint on the soul, from Old French caractere, from Latin charactēr, from Greek kharaktēr, from kharassein, to inscribe, from kharax, kharak-, pointed stick.]

What you refer to as "intellectual integrity" is actually your fetish about "consistency" and "character", both of which I do not value because I am free.

A person who has character or intellectual integrity is not free. And I have explained many times why one who is a slave to ideology is not free to act as the present moment demands.

Perhaps it is a bit unfair of you to say Blacks do not understand concepts like truth or intellectual integrity.

I am large. I contain multitudes. And I am free.

'with reams of nonsense about how it's helping us. No, Dale is smarter than ..':

What do you expect people to believe with even the Wallst Journal pushing such shit at people...clearly the deck is stacked in favor of lies that get so much coverage people believe them!

obama nation:

'he is downplaying it's significance.'.....

is it so he looks ' humble and hence greater' ?
ghandi like? what do you think


and ASOHK if there ever was anyone who should get a pulitzer its you!

kenneth deffeyes...i may be mis spelling his last name...hes a geologist and not an 'alarmist'

thats a place to start
however if you live in a city the best place to start is at the library

Jim, I have just read this column a second time, because I couldn't believe that it was really so bizarre as it seemed on first reading---but it is more bizarre! Jim, this is crazy! Where is the sensible James Howard Kunstler who has a sense of proportion and perspective? This is just nuts!
In my first comment on this column I pointed out that it's not possible for Israel to simply fly over Jordan and Iraq to go and bomb Iran, because the USA controls that air space. But there is nothing at all in your predictions of possible outcomes that makes any sense to me at all!
Please, what you should give some thought to is that every country has some energy that tends toward destruction (ie, crazy people); but, you also have in every country an energy that is working toward establishing coherence (ie, creative people). So, this notion that all of the crazy and evil people are going to suddenly cause a conflation of negativity that will lead to all this horror that you speculate on is, in my opinion, melodrama.
Yes, you are right that such an outcome is possible; after all, World War One was the result of such a load of bad energy that it rained hell like hell for half of the 20th century. All right---you are right, it is possible. But, in my opinion, the cause of World War Three will be Israel---not Iran! In my opinion, Israel is the Nazi Germany of the 21st century. Or, perhaps, the Serbia of the 21st century, in order to keep the world wars analogy in conformity.
Where is the sensible James Howard Kunstler, the one with the classical mind?

at one point were you planning on moving to arkansas?

No, not our Dale. He knows what he's doing-his orders come from the Internationale not the WSJ. He just doesn't have the stomach for the utter lies that he is supposed to tell. Maybe he would balk if it came time to kill people too.

This is the classic pre/trans fallacy described by Wilber. You confuse trans egoic-states with pre-egoic states because neither of them is egoic. So the moment to moment freedom of the Sage is confused with the timeless now of the baby. The Choiceless Awareness of a Krishnamurti is confused with the vagaries of a the Schizophrenic or the impulses of the spontaneous type criminal. I hope for your sake and that of people you deal with, that this a just a philosophy and that you haven't "realized" it.

Do you feel free to hurt people when you get mad? If not, why not?
Do you feel free to steal from shop owners? If not, why not? If you want something and no one is looking...it's all gain and no loss.

And intellectually, does 2+2=5? If not, why not? Mathematics is all principles and you are against principles-too confining. As O'Brian says in "1984", you could float up to the sky if you felt like it. No, he said if the Party needed it. You are more narcicistic than that; an army of one.

You are free? No you are a slave to your own impulses. You contain multitudes? Perhaps you are posessed. Or at the very least, you have not integrated your sub personalities into a coherent whole-sometimes called a persona, character, or personality. Sometimes the first two refer to the face we show to the world-which can be different than one's real personality. Individuality is the independence attained by an integrated personality. This is probably what you are shooting for-but going about it the wrong way. Flexibility and a tolerance for ambiguity are two of the earmarks of such an Person. But there are others. You take the good idea of flexibility and just run crazy with it.

I am replying to my own post for the benefit of Jaego or others whom it may concern.

I made remarks about Jaego and his sister that are pure fiction ... although I do believe they are plausible. The lines are based on a post I made on Aug 14 at 3:43 PM that I called Jaego's Backstory. At the time I clearly identified it as "invented." Since Jaego had never, up to that point, revealed anything personal that might explain the source of his hatred for blacks, I concocted a story that might explain it. The object was to draw him out but it failed. And here we are two months later and still we know nothing about his history. Well, this is not entirely true ... he actually did reveal that he has a sister (as in my fiction) and it was clear that there is great friction between them.

So, I restated the crux of my little story without reminding you that it is a fiction. The point of it all was to ask Jaego the following question: Do you rate white racial purity ahead of membership in the human race?

Jaego's reply at 12:52 PM today begins "Back to your slanderous stories again, ok fuck you little man" and continues downward through 11 inches of type concerning the differences between Wolves and Dogs and between Chimps and Bonobos. All of us have yawned through this lecture before.

Jaego could have saved all those keystrokes. The answer to my question is YES. Jaego could easily have gone to the mountain like a Spartan and hurled the defective half-breed off-spring of his own sister from the cliffs. This is the mindset that works relentlessly to win converts to his religion.


"google it." Google what? the only thing you get when you google this garbage is more garbage written by anti-semites.

The original premise of the comment that lead to mine was that Israel was willing to use nukes at the drop of a hat to obtain their goals. I challenged this assertion, and I still claim it is false, because neither facts nor history bear this out.

If they were REALLY willing to use nukes for anything other than self-defense, it would have gone like this:

*ring, ring* "Hello, wafq?"
"Yes?"
"This is Israel. You have 15 minutes to clear the Temple Mount of all Muslims and turn it back over to us or we nuke Medina. Got it? Bye."
*tick, tick, tick...*
*15 minutes expired*
*BANG*

*ring, ring* "Hello, wafq?"
"Yes?"
"This is Israel. Fifteen more minutes and Mecca gets it. Got that? Bye."
*tick, tick, tick..."
*15 minutes expired"
*BANG*

Islam's REAL holy sites up in radioactive ashes.

That's what an unethical war looks like. It's what Iran, et al, IS willing to do and Israel has obviously NOT been willing to do.

Perhaps the riots in India of a couple of years ago have slipped your mind? The ones where Muslims acquired Buddhist holy sites and razed them to build mosques, and then claimed there were ALWAYS mosques there? It's the same tactic they use against every religion besides their own. It's the same tactic they're using on the Temple Mount. And it's wrong.

Frankly, it's about time they started getting as good as they're giving other nations and other religions. Too bad Israel is a HONORABLE country, or they would have nuked Mecca already.

Iran is NOT honorable, and THEY are the ones "publishing all over the internet" they intend to destroy Israel (regardless of the translational bologna being passed off here as real linguistics by some posters - and btw, Jihad certainly does not just mean an "inner struggle," either.).

Jaego said: "This is the classic pre/trans fallacy described by Wilber."

No, I am familiar with Wilber's pre/trans fallacy and it does not apply. In an earlier post today you said: "Asoka has a decent IQ-can write clear sentences and express himself" [OCTOBER 9, 2009 11:34 AM].

A pre-rationalist mindset, is body-identified, fearful, impulsive by nature, does not have a decent IQ, and cannot write clear sentences until the rational mind is developed.

By your own words, the pre/trans fallacy does not apply.


Yasir Arafat received the Nobel Peace prize, Asoka. Wonderful honor for the prick, right? Just like the honor bestowed on our President, Asoka. It seems like Richard Lugar should have shared the prize, from what you said. I was a peacenik when I came home from my vacation trip to Da Nang, I didn't get the prize. Obama was put into consideration about 10 days after taking the Presidential oath. If you say this was not a political choice, you are welcome to your choice. You can believe whatever you wish. Obama is a blithering fool and most countries know he is easy game. Just piss in our face everywhere he goes, yeah, that's what makes him great. It would seem like the descendants of slaves like Obie and his racist wife would go overseas to nations that fostered slavery and be real angry. Such is not the case. Obama is naturally a prostrate politician, does his best work on his knees while bowing to Wahhabist butchers. W was fair game, Obama is fair game. And, as such, I will do everything I can to point out his little foibles like lack of patriotism, arrogance in America matched by his overseas "humility". There is much to be gained from strength, Obama will reduce our strength so we can all be little knotholes in a plank. I wonder if Sean Penn will like being a pisshole in a snowbank. Penn ridiculed W, haven't heard much from the idiot since Obama took office. Another patriotic draft dodging fucking idiot. Just like his president.

bahmi, did you get a ghostwriter? This diatribe against Obama was the most understandable thing you have written in a while, even though I don't agree with any of it.

W is long gone and mostly silent, but the Dixie Chicks are still playing concerts.

'Muslims acquired Buddhist holy sites and razed them to build mosques, and then claimed there were ALWAYS mosques there....'

from what i have read M have razed 15,000 Hindu temples in India...remember they were given 2 countries of their own back in....46?

now they want kashmir !!!!

But how is this any different from Israel taking the west bank?
and getting so much $ and weaponry from the usa? if they were honorable would they be our welfare state?

A real dream I had a few nights ago:

I was staring at the sun until the earth swallowed it. Just before it was gone, the sun winked at me.

I remained staring until the moon was the sun's breakfast. Just before it was gone, the moon winked at me.

And then in a man's voice, "the joke is on you kid... THERE IS NO BOMB".

Dear Creator,

Please send more cute military personnel who caress my ass oh so nice, and cum without a single stroke -
less imitation men over fifty named David.

As long as we are all playing at this death, let's dance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhjQH1FSDm0

Dream Quest has all those different species of life in it. Scary. But this was an earlier one when he was still under the influence of Dusany (?) and does not have the greatness of the later ones. I love At the Mountains of Madness. And now that the Japanese have x-rayed the Arctic and say that there are mountains comparable to the Swiss Alps under the ice and valleys etc. I bet there are people watering at the mouth to get under there and exploit it. Did you see the TED time stop photos of melting glaciers over at huff po? Sensational photos. The melting is really happening fast. And now it can be seen with a camera what the human eye cannot see.

Or you can see it at TED I think.

Lovecraft is the most influential writer (judged by his influence on writers following him) since Homer. I did not say the best writer but the most influential. almost every fine writer that you read has absorbed his thinking either directly or secondarily through another writer. He is inescapable.

I am already in the Ozarks. I have spent a lot of time in AR but not recently.

POSTSCRIPT TO MICHAEL MOORE'S LETTER TO OBAMA

PS: Your opposition has spent the morning attacking you for bringing such good will to this country. Why do they hate America so much? I get the feeling that if you found the cure for cancer this afternoon they'd be denouncing you for destroying free enterprise because cancer centers would have to close. There are those who say you've done nothing yet to deserve this award. As far as I'm concerned, the very fact that you've offered to walk into the minefield of hate and try to undo the irreparable damage the last president did is not only appreciated by me and millions of others, it is also an act of true bravery. That's why you got the prize. The whole world is depending on the U.S. -- and you -- to literally save this planet. Let's not let them down.


Read the whole letter here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/congratulations-president_b_315662.html

Nope you aint got it. The pre/trans fallacy is a philosophical mistake. Therefore, by definition it is the mistake of someone at the rational egoic level-or higher. Wilber found evidence for it in Taoism and some other traditions. When can be a mystic and think that all human life is basically a mistake, and that we shold never haved developed mind and culture. After all, it's so good to stop thinking and feel. Generally it is the mistake of the philosophically naive, but there can be reasons for such naivete besides just not knowing philosphy. I think you go beyond this and are using it as a dodge or cop out. A trick of your ego to avoid dealing with problems. So I don't think you are so much a primitive as an artfull dogder and deceiver. Some mystics use the pre/trans to deceive themselves-it feels so good to stay inside-why bother doing anything in the world since it isn't real anyway.

You might enjoy a site called
fireandreamitchell.com

and frances 'culture czar' ...he of the defense of RP..has a book out on trolling thailand for boy hookers
i kid you not

"No, I will not help you find her post."
-------------------------------

Well, it took some looking but I found Abbey's earlier post regarding turning down a NASA grant and ruining her career. Compare it with yesterday's comment on the same subject.

Key line from Abbey's reply to Asoka, Sep 29 at 12:02 AM:

I took an economic lectures from Greenspan and I don't even want to go into how his lectures made me turn down a NASA grant and ruin my career.

Excerpt from Abbey's comment on Oct 8 at 11:56 PM:

I was offered a NASA grant by my adviser to continue my research in perception. I told him I couldn't accept it because it was from tax money and I didn't have the right to take other people's money for my work. Well he was just astonished. And if you don't take govt money to do research then you aren't going to do much research. That's who pays for it. And if you are an experimental psychologist and don't do research, forget it. Positions, tenure, power, is the only game in town. Teaching classes is a sideline. Stupid me. So I went into the clinical part of psychology. Now I would say yes yes yes thank you thank you, as it was an extraordinary gift he gave me and I turned it down.

Are we to believe that Abbey submitted a grant proposal in the competitive academic world, (this is how things are done) won a grant offer but then turned it down because Alan Greenspan convinced her it would be inappropriate "to take other people's money for my work." This, by the way is what people with jobs do. They work for somebody and take that other person's money for their work. But our own astute Abbey, wheeler dealer in gold, silver, futures, options etc. didn't understand that the grant system involved payment from the government (i.e. tax payers money) for her research.

These are the kinds of posts that make the commenter lose all credibility.

Wrong again. I would never hurt a child. I just want what all peoples want-our own Country. The Chinese kicked out every foreginer in China until they felt secure of their own Sovereignty.

Just because you've read it before doesn't mean you've understood it. And I never talked about the Chimps and Bonobos before. It's fascinating-and it does relate to human condition if you think about it. Many Feminists see our Society as Chimp and would like to replace it with a Bonobo/Matriarchy. The Bonobos are actually a litte more like us physically but we are more like the Chimps culturally-for the most part.

I have actually defended Blacks in coversation with Africans. I used to work in the mental health biz and there were lots of Africans. They universally loathed African Americans. It was very extreme. They can't stand them because they have no culture as they would understand it. I agreed somewhat then and more now. All traditional cultures are big on respecting elders. Black American kids don't. Maybe in the rural South-but not in the Cities. This is anathema to the Africans as well as their constant complaining, ingratitude etc. I got along fine with the Africans, much easier than I do the average American Black. And they are less racist towards Whites from what I could see.

How is your little story plausible? It's insolent crap. Face it, you haven't answered any of my questions. You are trying to change the subject with this tactic. Unless you have something better, I have won.

The main questions: Do Blacks have the same IQ as Whites? If not, how do we deal with the very serious social implications of that. And does Truth matter in this debate, or is slander and appeal to "what everyone knows", in other words, political correctness, sufficient.

"Lovecraft is the most influential writer (judged by his influence on writers following him) since Homer."
---------------------------

Please read the excerpt above from Abbey's 8:00 PM comment today. Read it slowly and consider the significance: Lovecraft is more influential than Shakespeare, to name just one of millions since Homer.

Go back through a couple of weeks of posts by Abbey and you will find this same pattern ... compulsive exaggeration. It seems Abbey does not feel she can be taken seriously unless her statements are couched in superlatives ... everything is to the Nth degree ... especially plots and conspiracies. I have a sister-in-law who speaks this way. If she attends a wedding the lavishness she describes will have exceeded anything you have ever seen and even Mike Todd's bash for Liz Taylor. Psycologists must have a name for this condition. What is it called Abbey?

What's an Anti-Semite? The standard Anti Defamation League definition is: anyone who opposises Irael or the Jews at any time or any place for any reason. By that definition, all decent people should be a antisemites including all decent Jews. For example Norman Finkelstein, author of The Holocaust Industry-a great Jewish Anti-Semite who has paid for his views. He was denied tenure las year, probably due to the machinations of Dershowitz and Company. He showed up Dershowitz as a plagirist who plagiarized another Zionist Hack in another rididiculous pro Israel book.

Jaego said: "think that all human life is basically a mistake, and that we shold never haved developed mind and culture. After all, it's so good to stop thinking and feel."

This is a gross misinterpretation of Wilber. Human life is not a mistake.

You are once again showing you do not understand Wilber.

Wilber's whole emphasis in the evolution of consciousness is "transcend and include" ... subsequent phases of development do not negate earlier phases; they transcend and include earlier phases.

So mind in not negated, culture is not negated, thinking is not negated.

I don't know if you are just confused or rammy for a fight.

I took economic lectures from Greenspan before I went to graduate school and swallowed the koolaid.

After three years in graduate school I was working with my advisor and another graduate student on a perceptual problem: An illusion of contour. My advisor wrote the grant (as is customary when they want to support graduate students working on their research) (got that stupid!). When he received it he told me he had gotten it for me. That was the first I had heard of it and then stupid me said I couldn't take it because it was tax money.

Is that simple enough?

That quote about influence is not mine. I am not sure but I think it is Joshi the foremost scholar of Lovecraft.

Yes of course Shakespeare is influential, but no one wants to redo him and/ or continue on his path. This is what is meant by Lovecraft's influence. People are still writing Lovecraft stories and novels. Lovecraft created a mythology that continues as did Homer. Shakespeare did not create a mythology. But he did end the divine right of kings. (Not mine either.)

And Lovecraft's mythology is in full force. Witness Jaego's belief system. Films (David Lynch) and much of the horror art. Wherever you turn he is there, acknowledged of not.

I want each of you to go here:

http://promo.espn.go.com/espn/contests/theheismanvote/2009/

and vote for Barak Obama. Thank You.

"Go back through a couple of weeks of posts by Abbey and you will find this same pattern ... compulsive exaggeration."
----------------------------

Within the vast realm of compulsive disorders you will find compulsive liars and compulsive exaggerators (Google them). The two are linked. As is the style nowadays, psycologists like to avoid labels with a pejorative ring to them (as in "a drunk" = "a person with a substance abuse problem") so a compulsive exaggerator is frequently known in the psych dodge as a compulsive "embellisher." The kindest label I could give to Abbey is "compulsive embellisher" but in my heart I know her problem goes much deeper. I encourage readers to Google as suggested above and read some of the articles. Then, keep what you have learned in mind whenever you read an Abbey post. It will enrich your experience.

Sorry, I voted for Ed R Meelhysen, even though Obama deserves it more.

"Wrong again. I would never hurt a child. I just want what all peoples want-our own Country."
-----------------------------

If killing were not illegal ... if this were Sparta, Jaego would be the Chief Hurler of Half-breeds from the mountain cliffs. Make no mistake about it. White racial purity trumps membership in the human race. He scoffs at the term "human race."

In the unlikely event anyone needs reminding how full of shit the Slimy eel is, re-read the post below which appeared on Sept 13 at 3:51 PM.

I have just been assigned a special project and will be heavily into working for a while.
It has been fun chatting with all of you. Good luck with your endeavors.
This is not admission of a Qishtik victory... only announcement of an extended absence.

The above was not intended as a reply to JS.

Qshtik said: "Jaego would be the Chief Hurler of Half-breeds from the mountain cliffs. Make no mistake about it. White racial purity trumps membership in the human race."

Love is stronger than hatred. The unity Love achieves is stronger than Jaego's calls for separate nations. Fortunately, the power of eros and miscegenation is a force that Jaego is powerless to stop.

Furthermore, everyone of us humans on the planet earth, from the whitest white to the blackest black and everybody in between, possess within ourselves a wide variety of the genetic diversity of the entire human species, black, brown, yellow, red, white.

Jaego's so-called "purity" of race is a myth, and it is not simply socially divisive, but it is quite literally incorrect and wrong from the standpoint of the hard science and the hard data.

This only makes Jaego's racism that much more subversive of civilization and civilized ways of living.

But Love is winning, genetic science is indisputable, and the future is one of humanity united by Love, not separated by racial myths.

Qshtik said: "In the unlikely event anyone needs reminding how full of shit the Slimy eel is..."

LOL! I doubt anyone who can read needs reminding.

But what about you, St. Joseph graduate, why so much venom?

Remember Safire's rule #4.

Wrong. I didn't say Wilber said that-he said that some mystics said that. Is that a distinciton you are not capable of making or are you just "feeling free" to obfuscate and slander again?

You have lost and I have won. You cannot answer any of my questions or address any of the horrific problems that ensue from keeping on with the status quo. Your only answer is slander and playing to the "crowd". Unlike Dale who has a modicum of integrity I think, you just hack away shameless to the last. Dale had the integrity to run away screaming curses as he went. But I do appreciate your rambling, confused acknowledgement of racial difference. That's something anyway. We could have had a good discussion of the implications of those differences and what should be done about the situation. But your pride would not allow that so you seek to "ruin" me-the standard course. Well you can't keep us down forever-and there are more of us every day. The Truth that we know will destroy this country-and yet people like you are in power and refuse to even discuss it-but just toss out the undefined epithet "racist". It's the State Religion after all, which you may not even believe in. But canny fellow that you are, you have learned to yell Hail Ceasar all the louder to cover your apostasy.

Since you lack the humility to concede defeat, I claim victory. Jaego Scorzne 2, Libtards 0.

dale:

did you fade due to boredUM or due to 'integrity'?

"Dale had the integrity to run away screaming curses as he went" ??????????????????

JS..methinks yr use of english a bit off...and even i spell better hthan you do!

And lets not get started on someone Investorsbizdaily called a 'freak of nature' alan dershowitz

The baseline that no one seems to understand is that the federal government of the united states does not represent the people who make-believe that they're voting for their politicians/apparatchiks. The vast majority of amerikans believe the mainstreammedia's propaganda. Can you seriously be euro or asian and truly wonder why a faux-change "president" was "elected"? An Obama who hasn't done jack shit with his "super majority"? You have to be kidding. There are no elections here in the usa. That all ended on November 22, 1963 with the coup. Doesn't anyone realize what happened here?

The baseline that no one seems to understand is that the federal government of the united states does not represent the people who make-believe that they're voting for their politicians/apparatchiks. The vast majority of amerikans believe the mainstreammedia's propaganda. Can you seriously be euro or asian and truly wonder why a faux-change "president" was "elected"? An Obama who hasn't done jack shit with his "super majority"? You have to be kidding. There are no elections here in the usa. That all ended on November 22, 1963 with the coup. Doesn't anyone realize what happened here?

Jaego said: "Is that a distinciton you are not capable of making or are you just "feeling free" to obfuscate and slander again?"

I apologize if I misunderstood what you wrote.

My effort is to distinguish myself here on CFN as being the one who does not engage in ad hominem attack, name calling, or foul language.

If I have failed, if you felt I slandered you in some way, then I apologize.

Jaego, sqished dik is incapable of making distinctions when reading a post and I suspect in other aspects of his life.

Why he prefers to compare options in all their varied aspects before committing. A compulsive/obsessive/paranoid mind to be sure.

He cannot tell the difference between what you said or what you attributed to someone else. I confuse him also. Restricted and unrestricted clauses comprises a syntax he has never mastered. Too bad.

Well Gore Vidal realized this coup decades ago. He also corresponded with McVeigh and found horrors in that case of silenced local sheriffs et al.

Now that the internet is here and we can share this it is of no avail. Too much noise now.

I just read that-inerview with the British Independent. Very interesting man-deeply connected to the American Elite by blood, but a black sheep and a self made man. He loathes FDR as much as the far Right does-and for some of the same reasons. He began the march towards empire. That's what the World Wars were all about. We had no magnanimity in regards to Japan or Germany. Nothing but absolute surrender and then we make them over in our image. Exactly what we plan to do the Mideast. It's truly monstrous.

Whoa dude. I admit my spelling is often out to lunch, but I think my useage is usually ok. This example is alright I think. As he ran might have been a bit more graceful but as he went is ok I believe. If not, tell my why.

You often don't seem to even care about your sentence stucture. Take that!

I regretted asking you about your brush with NASA after he got interested. I knew that he was just going to try to pick it apart and try to find dirt. He should have been a lawyer I think.

This: "Now that the internet is here and we can share this it is of no avail. Too much noise now."

made me think of this:

"TEMPORAL BLINDNESS is a limitation in cognitive process. People with temporal blindness can not gather and process available information into predictions of future conditions. Their processes can not connect future conditions to a causing behavior. When their processes do create unpleasant predictions, and identify the causal behavior, they fail to create enough present meaning for the future conditions to motivate a change in that behavior."

- except, I wonder if {as you seem to infer} it should say 'do not' rather than 'can not'. I suppose it is moot since either condition leads to failure.

http://www.skil.org/

James Crow - There are those among us who are well aware of the changes that took place so many years ago. It is well known and understood by a minority of us, that we can never go back to what was. Now, we can only stand by silently and let pass, what will be. Those who fail to recognize and understand who it is that is in charge, will fail to survive. There are no words that we can convey to them, that will enlighten them. The majority of people in America have now been successfully programmed to believe in a few simple points of view, all of which are wrong. Those who contribute to this site, are indicative of the confusion that now is seen as thoughtful discourse. James, seek out those who agree with you. Keep your eyes open and make good plans.

Dearest Asoka! All our disagreements are in the past; nay they never were! We are at war with East Asia. We have always been at war with East Asia. Two legs good, four legs better. Bubble, Bubble, Toil and Trouble. Black shall be White and White shall be Black. Bubble, Bubble, Toil and Trouble! Evil be my good!
Of course I accept your offer of alliance! We, the Triumverate of Justice, shall drive the hated one into the sea.

There are a few gleams of hope-at least outside possibilities. There is a pledge circulating among police department urging them to vow to keep faith with the American People and to disobey any unlawful orders of search, seizure, or shooting.

On the larger scale, the Military apparently knows the truth about Obama: that he wasn't born here, probably isn't even a citizen, and that therefore nothing he does is legal or valid. A soldier refused to go back for another tour in Iraq. He got a lawyer and was prepared to use the above as his defence. The Military quietly backed down and let him go. Now, the Military doesn't do that-something is obviously very wrong here. Obama is fending off a dozen different law suits-he doesn't want a high profile case like this might have been.

Now since they know-what if anything will they do? Probably nothing-but if things get really bad domestically and if the current or next war goes badly-they might conceivably stage a quiet coup if they think he can't pull it together. And this may or may not be good for us. But it's hard to imagine how it could be any worse if we keep on this socialist/utopian/convert the world trajectory. And they can take their case to the American People after the fact.

The Mountains of Madness is very good-he used his realistic journalistic style to great effect-as he does in The Call of Cthulu. Another wonderful story, quite short and superbly crafted is The Silver Key. In a few paragraphs he disposes of ordinary life, traditional religion, occultism, the middle aged Randolph Carter/Lovecraft can find no peace until he Remembers the Key of Dreams.

Lovecraft was a great believer in science and rationality and was in fact, a materialist. But that didn't stop him from having incredible dreams. He SAW some of these things in his dreams. The poor man.

Saying to one's self I can't leads to thinking in that linguistic verbalization. I can't is much different from I don't want to,close to your do not i.e. (want to).

He's just an asshole who thinks he is smart.

None of us really knows exactly what to do. Which is why we come here to argue. I don't really and I have seen it coming since 1960 but I didn't want my life to be about getting ready for it. My choice.

I thought I had it figured out and I almost did but a greedy partner got in the way. Now I think rescue and witness. The only actions that will work for me.

About the only thing that is left from previous empires and civilizations is art.

If you read Houellebecq's book on Lovecraft it is a jewel,a treasure of love for the man.

He took his dreams seriously and they were Jungian in the extreme. He could not go to university (money, like Wells also) and from about 18 -22 no one knows what he did. He stayed home, slept in the day, stayed in his bathrobe and I guess lived within his dreams. Many fertile imaginations have done this. I am there now.

He hated humanity but loved Tom, dick and Harry. A sort of quote from someone else I just read today.

Nietchze?

Yea though I walk out of the Valley of Oil I shall fear no manual labour, for my great great grandparents did lots of it........
Turning the "peak" upside down, all this week at http://www.suburbanempire.com

The Valley of the Shadow of Oil. Oil is the peak that casts the shadow, and shadows are nothing to be scared of.

Jaego said: "On the larger scale, the Military apparently knows the truth about Obama"

I agree. Apparently the Military did some in depth investigation and discovered Obama is their legitimate Commander-in-Chief, and that is why the Military continues to carry out Obama's orders.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates confirmed this publicly this week, saying, and I quote: "the military will fall in line" with Obama's orders.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/05/ap/cabstatepent/main5364087.shtml

Thanks for the great work as always.
Hopefully we will realize that there will not be enough time to transition to sustainability if we start more resource wars.
I'm keeping a close eye on oil prices and the bond market. I think these will make us pay attention to events at home.
Here's an interesting video about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P72DBplhdE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHq-ZxDHPz4

"Defense Secretary Robert Gates confirmed this publicly..."

Did you expect him to tell the truth? The article says nothing about research, it is simple bluster. You ever heard of Oath Keepers or Three Percenters?

"I have found that the many of our Air Force enlisted don’t really care about the current happenings of government. Aside from political elections, they don’t seem to pay any attention at all. I have made mention of the corruption that has been spreading through the upper ranks of this nation’s leaders, and have found nothing but uninterested scorn. I believe that we as a military force should be taking a greater interest as the elected government is ultimately to be where our orders are decided.

I fear deeply for our country. The people on top can make even the simplest of things become so gray you cant tell where one line starts and the other begins."

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/08/04/i-am-an-american-airman-i-am-a-warrior-i-have-answered-my-nations-call/

"Just thought the WRSA [Western Rifle Shooters Association] and the Sipsey Street boys might like to see what we are wearing while over here in Iraq. We . . . know what the deal is, and when the time comes (which it will), we know where we stand and continue to make preparations for it."

http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=4716

Great links, thank you. It's spreading, thank God. Sanity is catching just like craziness.

In Iraq, they don't call our troops Yank or Joe-they call us the Jews. What an insult-and one richly deserved. The whole world gets it except us. We'll be the last to know if ever.

messianicdruid said: "You ever heard of Oath Keepers or Three Percenters?"

They are very small groups.

They are free to speak and free to sign oaths, but if they disobey a military order, they can expect to be arrested, court-martialed, and imprisoned with a dishonorable discharge and loss of benefits.

That's the way the military works: you obey orders.

Jaego said: "what sets him apart from the soldier is that he fights for a higher purpose."

He may have a higher purpose in his mind, but his ass belongs to the army and he will obey orders.

If a soldier (or warrior) does not obey orders, he will be subject to court martial, unless he is fragged by his own unit first, because a guy who doesn't obey orders is a danger to unit survival.

Herodotus said that as Darius watched the Spartans slaughter his army, he jumped up again and again. He slowly realized that while he many combatants, he had very few real warriors. A warrior isn't just one who follows orders-a soldier,although as a professional he can. But rather what sets him apart from the soldier is that he fights for a higher purpose. He wills what he is doing. The Mercenary fights for his own purpose-that of gain. He may be a good fighter, but when the odds get too bad, he will withdraw. If a Mercenary were to fall in love with the cause or the people he was fighting for, on that day he would become a warrior.

Read what the Shivapuri Baba, who died in 1963 at the age of 137, said about Nuclear Weapons. "All other animals have sense. Man alone has commonsense. Some men like Einstein live by intelligence. Only supermen live by commonsense. Einstein's intelligence produced the formula for the atomic bomb. But if he had had commonsense, he would have kept it to himself alone."

"...loss of benefits." a world of slavery and debauchery; a world where people are united by bondage instead of free choices, make believe freedom instead of Liberty? Poor motivators from the get-go...especially when you take the oath seriously.

"The tender mercies of the wicked are cruel". It is better to do what is right {keep your word - or don't give it} and let the chips fall where they may. Way too much over-promising and under-delivering from that crowd.

God prefers to work with small numbers. This way we can't boast in the strength of the flesh but rather rejoice in the Power, Promises and Providence of God.

Messianicdruid said: "God prefers to work with small numbers."

You want to bring God into this? God was pretty damn clear in his commandments: THOU SHALT NOT KILL so if you want to follow God you cannot be a soldier or a warrior. You would go straight to hell because if you tried to get into heaven God would be asking: "What part of THOU SHALT NOT KILL did you not understand?"

But even without bringing God into it, your statement that "loss of benefits" indicates slavery is interesting. Are people who accept Medicare benefits all slaves? Are people who accept Social Security benefits all slaves? Are people who accept unemployment benefits all slaves?

And, more importantly, are soldiers who obey orders and serve honorably and accept GI benefits all slaves?

"If a soldier (or warrior) does not obey orders, he will be subject to court martial, unless he is fragged by his own unit first, because a guy who doesn't obey orders is a danger to unit survival."

I confess, I did read part of your post to me, .....only part. Trust me on this our slavic Nazi, even if I found your posts worthwile to read,(which I do not) I wouldn't have the time. Considering how infatuated you are with posting long winded diatribes, I seriously question how anyone could.

" I am free to practice Sufism on Monday, Christian contemplative prayer on Tuesday, dance and sing to Krishna on Wednesday, praise Judaism on Thursday (or Saturday), embrace heartily atheism on Friday, and be an agnostic on Saturday (when I'm not attending synagogue)."

Of course you are and that is because you are a FUCKTARD. One who believes in everything believes in nothing. You fit that mold perfectly. Any fucking way in which the wind blows, thats our little asoka-his-pants.

"THOU SHALT NOT KILL..."

Wrong. Thou shalt not murder is the correct interpretation. There is a difference. God sent his old testament followers into battle regularly.

zzzzz said: "Wrong. Thou shalt not murder is the correct interpretation."

So you want to play semantic games with God?

To murder a fellow human being is to attack God.

It is a sin to assault God by killing any person.

As such, the person will be judged accordingly by God.

The way human beings are to relate to one another comes from Matthew 7:12: "In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets."

IN EVERYTHING, GOT IT?

"Even as ye have done unto the least of these (you know, like Al Qaeda) ye have done unto me"

So you are also murdering Christ, too, with your KILLING/MURDERING in wars.

zzzzz said: "God sent his old testament followers into battle regularly."

1) We are not in old testament times.

2) You are not God, and neither is Obama.

3) Killing and murdering by anyone are both prohibited by God's law.

zzzzz said: "God sent his old testament followers into battle regularly."

1) We are not in old testament times.

2) You are not God, and neither is Obama.

3) Killing and murdering by anyone are both prohibited by God's law.

zzzzz said: You are a FUCKTARD.

Stop calling Jesus a FUCKTARD.

The way human beings are to relate to one another comes from Matthew 7:12: "In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets."

"Even as ye have done unto the least of these, ye have done unto me. Stop calling me or anyone a FUCKTARD."

zzzzz said: "One who believes in everything believes in nothing."

I don't believe in killing or murdering anyone.


zzzzz said: "Any fucking way in which the wind blows, thats our little asoka-his-pants."

When the wind was blowing in favor of drones in Afghanistan I opposed Obama on that. I opposed Bush on the bombing of Iraq. I opposed Nixon on the bombing of Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. I oppose Obama sending soldiers all over the world, e.g., Colombia.

zzzzz said: "One who believes in everything believes in nothing."

I don't believe in killing or murdering anyone.


zzzzz said: "Any fucking way in which the wind blows, thats our little asoka-his-pants."

When the wind was blowing in favor of drones in Afghanistan I opposed Obama on that. I opposed Bush on the bombing of Iraq. I opposed Nixon on the bombing of Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. I oppose Obama sending soldiers all over the world, e.g., Colombia.

I also opposed Johnson's war, Clinton's wars, and Reagan's wars. I have consistently opposed all of the presidents' organized murder campaigns.

And in the 20th century I opposed the organized murder campaigns of communist leaders like Mao, and the fascist organized murder campaigns.

Everyone justifies their murder, but few engage in weasel word semantics to justify it my saying killing is OK but murder is prohibited by God.

Perhaps they won't go to hell, they'll go to hades.

Mr. Kunstler,

Your audience is airing their own grievances which have absolutely nothing to do with your brave and honest post, with which I happen to disagree.

I always say, anyone who is brave enough to get on stage automatically has 4/5 stars.

The anger in these posts is palpable, and very concerning. They have spent too much time yelling into an empty canyon. Mr. Kunstler, you have worked hard to have your voice heard. I'm not sure if you allow these peoples' vociferousness to air in public because it is almost comic or because you do not care. DO not allow them to demean your message.

The country that spends the 2nd most in absolute $ numbers on its military is China. First is the United States of America, spending 24X that of China and with the most well-trained VOLUNTEER Armed Forces in the World.

I take umbrage to your fan-boy who called Vietnam a murderous campaign. MacArthur begged Truman to keep going north, and he was given a redlight, and the greatest military on Earth now sits beside the worst nation-state-concentration camp in the world.

The Armed Forces are well-educated. They are WAY ahead of you on geopolitical contingencies.

To clarify, I was speaking of the Korean Way after my comment about the Vietnam War.

"Everyone justifies their murder, but few engage in weasel word semantics to justify it by saying killing is OK but murder is prohibited by God."

Why didn't you start here, if you want to talk about God's Law?

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." Gen. 9:6

You cannot murder a murderer. A murderer cannot restore what he has taken, so he has forfeited his own life in shedding the blood of a man made in God's image.

It is not semantics to differentiate between killing someone who has murdered another created in God's image and murdering someone made in the same image WITHOUT CAUSE. If you believed in the resurrection where all this will be sorted out, permenantly, you wouldn't have such a problem with simple english.

"And, more importantly, are soldiers who obey orders and serve honorably and accept GI benefits all slaves?"

If they obey lawful orders they are patriots and warriors. If they are given and obey unlawful orders {contrary to the Laws of God and man} the are simply mercaneries, living by the sword and dieing by the sword.

Though I began the paragrapgh with Vietnam, the latter part was concerning the Korean War.

messianicdruid ,

Put down your D & D game and come say that to my Christian father's face, who bravely served in Vietnam.

You are already making assumptions about me, and that is what makes you sad.

Dale I paid you all compliments this week albeit backhanded ones. You really do have too much integrity to tell all the lies that Communism demands. So you are a second class Communist-a good thing in my book. What keeps you involved with this crap is your incredible self righteousness and need to feel morally superior to other people. It basically turns you into some kind of Victorian Lady in a Temperance League or something. Not a good thing. There ya go-short and not too sweet!

One can bravely serve his country in war and still be led by lawless murderers. This is the reason 17 year old kids are recruited {been there done that} they have been instilled with patriotism and are ignorant of the Law.

Kicking their ass and taking their gas is not patriotism. It is very difficult for a man to realize he was used to further the agenda of some mattoid flitting around the world on a corporate jet loaning "money" & selling armaments to both sides.

It is even harder for a christian to realize that the church has put away the law of God {serving other gods/rulemakers/nicolaitans} and have made themselves God's enemies.

"God Bless America" {ie: turn us from our sins/lawlessness 1John3:4}

I was not making any assumptions about you, or anyone else.

I forgot my links:
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/Chapter.cfm?CID=78
http://www.servias.org/?m=200910

MC,

Thanks for your conciliatory and diplomatic tone.

I realize I was making assumptions about you.

If you have served as a VFW or served the US Armed Forces in any capacity I thank you. If you feel you have served a narrow self-interest, I wouldn't know how that feels.

Just know that America is comprised of many religions, and they all have fought against Fascism, Communism (Soviets knocking crosses off of churches), and, I would like to say theocracies where 1/2 the population lives in slavery (e.g. - Saudi Arabia).

Thanks again for your service.

The Mercenary fights for his own purpose-that of gain. He may be a good fighter, but when the odds get too bad, he will withdraw.


For a complete list of books by James Howard Kunstler and purchase links, click here.

   

     

     

 
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